With any highly maneuverable aircraft, the ability to turn-fight is a _contingency_ for when you run out of options (altitude) Every turn-fighter should be climbing anyway to give themselves the very same option Magz has here. Rather than be the choice target for the enemy, you get to have the choice
229 is definitely my favorite jet in the game. Americans don't expect it to be so fast, and many try to turn fight with it. It has a nice mix of BnZ and maneuver fighting capabilities, especially after they introduced the maximum Gs mechanic that stops your wings from ripping right away.
War Thunder: How I fly the Horten Ho 229 //1.55// So after many comments and emails time to dive back into Era V and take a look at an old favorite, The Ho 229. I hope you enjoy!
I don't know about other people but when I got my first 229 before it was buffed and after the buff mine was already spaded. Whenever I fly now I almost always get at least 3 kills. Anyhow love your videos magz your channel is definitely the most helpful.
+MagzTV good fighting magz though lol I actually kinda prefer when you play Subnautica. I actually picked it up because it looked interesting to me. Sadly i dont have a good enough video card right now to play it but my GF was given a free R9 380 4GB so I'm getting an upgrade soon. Can't wait to see the next video mate, keep up the good work.
björn sjöblom I can't. Since some update War Thunder stoped working on my PC. Technical support said I need to update my video card drivers, gave me the link, I used it, updated. As the result War Thunder didn't start working and my OS slowly broke.
Hmm thats sad:(try install update urself.from a side otherwise maybe they got u wrong update or reinstall it all togheter and wt to and hope thats work:)
the horten brothers were very smart in putting the engines and wings at an angle, that way, when flying waterpass with the engines, the wings are still angled making is possible for the aircraft to catch more air
I either fly the Ho-229 like a medium altitude BnZer (until it all goes on the deck) or like a scumbag tank farmer~. Depends on the map and if I need RP in droves, though I won't ignore an ally in trouble like our mate in the background of this video (there's something satisfying about shooting HVAP through a P-80s wing and watching it flip upside down :P)
Turbojets gaining thrust with airspeed? Eh? Seems WT's developers are misunderstanding significant aspects of jet engine performance. To be sure, jet engines *do* change thrust in response to airspeed and altitude, but it's not nearly as simple as "below this speed, thrust is 30% less than maximum" and it's almost certain that maximum performance for turbojets modeled in WT should occur while static and remain mostly constant throughout their performance range. Large swings in performance are extremely weird. If WT models aerodynamics at least half way decent, you want to accelerate to your best rate-of-climb speed and stay there with the thrust levers at maximum continuous. Then again WT's physics being all arcady, I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't the case.
5:15 "EXTREME OVERLOADING 2G" I mean I know the instructor is annoying, but this is almost insulting. 7:50 The sparkles are real Seems like this sort of playstyle requires the enemy team not pressure you. I can see this whole "stay fast" strategy falling apart the moment a plane with superior flight characteristics does start giving you trouble, and then there's really not much to do from there.
Thanx again, Magz! I'm thinking about strapping on the 229 again after almost six months of grinding on the US and UK trees. BTW, I found out the hard way that the ground belts are useless outside of busting on tanks. They pass through other planes like they are tissue paper and do little damage.
Even when going for ground targets, I've never had any problems facing USA jets. If and when I do decide to go for full air combat, this thing is an absolute beast and is a clubbing machine.
Well that was a joy to watch. Seeing a well flown HO229 is as rare as a honest politician. Most of the pilots just kill tanks in it making themselves easy targets and never utilizing its quite big potential sadly. BTW I personally fly the HO almost the same way as you maybe a little more aggressively. Also can't wait for the next subnautica video. :)
Yeah i always have to fight Hortens in my 6.3 props, and they are faster and turn better, so as far as im concerned its fine, maybe even undertiered. Plus its deadly in groundforces.
in SB it is even more siginificant, as trim can be abused to lessen the maximum pull of deflection, resulting in a less speed loss during turns,while still maingtaining optimal turn
Yep yep yep. It's easy to tell the difference between a good horten pilot and a bad horten pilot because of their engagement speed. If a horten actually uses energy it's a monster and a handful for the F-80. The scariest thing is that the horten will actually outdive the F-80. It's only in an extended level chase that the F-80 will start to pull away from it. A tip for all shooting star pilots: Try to get the horten to commit to vertical maneuvers. You have much better energy retention in the vertical and you'll be able to use this to drain the horten of its energy and set yourself up to BnZ. You just have to keep moving to avoid those 30's and be aware that while you have better vertical energy retention, the Horten doesn't understand what stalling is. Another good method to use against hortens and arado C's is burst climbing in the shooting stars. Climb a couple thousand feet, level out to gain speed, climb another couple thousand feet, level out, etc. Your acceleration and climb rate are much better than these two aircraft so once you get them to roughly equal energy as yourself start to slowly wear them down until you're both above them and traveling at a higher speed.
Hey Magz. I'm not entirely sure about what you're you're saying about thrust and speed. In a pure turbojet at constant alititude, thrust output will remain nearly constant with a slight drop from static up until ram air takes over and returns thrust to nearly static levels. I think what you may be referring to is the way vy for rate of climb works. Rate of climb is determined by excess power against power required. This is a regime where the jet has an advantage at high speed over a prop as power continues to increase with speed as it does not loose thrust at high speed, unlike a prop.
holy christ, the amount of information and play by play you put out is amazing in your commentaries, you have no idea how helpful this is to someone like me who is struggling. Explanations are near perfect, couldn't have found a better video, thank you so much.
When you see how advanced german engineering was even in the later days of WW2 you wonder what crazy stuff they had designed and could destroy before capture !
For you: Everyone lines up perfectly for you to kill them. For me: Everyone turns literally the whole time. For you: No one gets a hit. For me: Everyone one-hits me. For you: Most of the people stay low. For me: Everyone stays at a height of 5K meters. And the funny thing is: I do exactly the same as you do.
People don't line up for me, I position myself so they are in a line. People don't one hit be me because I keep my speed high and never bleed unless absolutely necessary all while making sure to keep as little of my profile visible to those targets I know are able to get guns on me limiting there firing options. People also don't stay low for me, I just avoid combat until the majority of the team has started there dives from 5k onto low altitude targets and then I attack. Apparently you don't do what I do, There is nothing magical about the way I fly. It's patience and practice and knowledge of how such matches almost always play out and using that to my advantage. Anyone can do it and get the same results, It's just a matter of time and learning to know how.
As and extremely new jet pilot (I'd say I have less than 20 games in jets so far) I don't have any of those issues. my only problem with the ho229 is that I stuck at getting her guns on target, i suck at leading them correctly and rolling to anticipate their attempts to evade. (Well, that and I don't have AA belts yet so on those rare occasions i do score hits they often deal no significant damage). So the only problem is my skill, not the aircraft. If they stay at 5K that's no biggie the ho has a service ceiling of 12K (m), you'll just have to climb a bit more before you head into the battle. That way you have so much air speed on anyone that could pose a threat that you can get outside of gun range the moment someone tries to turn on you from the bottom, side or top with only a tiny course adjustment. anyone who tries to engage you from the rear while you zoom off into the distance is presented with the slimmest profile of any jet in the game, and there are 2 massive jet engines between their guns and your pilot so if they do score a hit they only take out an engine so you can still limp home on 1 engine and 800km/h.
The reason why a lot of Horton pilots are dying is because they ground attack until they die witch opens up and opportunity to dive down from altitude in my f-80 to kill you and get back up to altitude now my main problem is when I run into someone is competent with it XD
+MagzTV Totally agree, personally i don't hit shit with the MK 108's in the various 109's. I'm surprised the 262 works for me :P P.S. Being german, i love how you say Minengeschoss :D
Hey Magz, would you consider doing a video like this on the German Mig 15bis? After recently unlocking it, I find myself struggling to perform well. The unique guns and lack of practice is killing me, and I would love to learn some tips from you! Cheers!
Ho229 deserves 8.0. I can deal with mig-15bis and f-86 F-2/Cl13s without a problem in it, in fact I often end up above the not-so-smart jets in custom duels. Horten is also faster than the F2H on-the-deck which is just hilarious if you ask me. Also the horten's flight model is borked; you can pull a 300 meter split-s, you can fly with one control surface (aileron-elevator) with both independant pitch and roll control etc. etc. The engines were already sufficient with the old 'super weak engines" flight model so I find the current FM plentyful for 1v1 against almost every other jet. In fact I find it so well that if I'm flying an F2H I find I can do absolutely nothing against a well horten player
+ZdrytchX's -{Reference Channel I struggle with P80 and F80 because I don't know how to fly it right, every time I would ask how to fly it, I either get some one saying "get gud scrub/nub" or no answer at all, and that leads me to play it wrong all game and I end up getting killed, so I've stayed away from jets. Now that MagsTV put out a video on a good way to play it, I'm going to go and try it out. and to answer you, no putting the 229 at 8.0 because you can kill 9.0 jets, is like saying the Panzer IV F2 should be at 5.7 because I can kill 6.7 tanks with it. just because I can do well with it doesn't mean every one else can as well.
Well I do certainly have a preference for higher wing lift to weight ratio aircraft. But I do however suck in some aircraft that I still think are good (e.g. bf 109 F-4, G-2, He 112 A-0, Yak-1b and even strangely enough Ho 229 mainly because of its cockpit in SB) and are somehow good stats-wise in aircraft that I think are just crappy at performance (He 162, Me 262 A-1a). But in custom battles, things like 1v1s against supreme jets like the mig-15bis, the horten really does shine so well that I have a hard time dying and have more control over the dogfight as oppose to dealing with planes like the Tempest II and F8F-1b. It's one of those planes that balances the other way around. Typhoon mk 1b/L was very good in SB, so good that you could say it was on par with the Ta 152 H-1 in the old days, but had a BR of 3.7 and so was eventually raised to 5.0 and fitted strangely just nice... until they nerfed the flight model that is.
wut did you just say even if the mig15 could be lighter than a horten (I don't have proof it is though) the horten has a considerably larger wing lift coefficient for its drag. In fact I just make use of the lift by spiral climbing and mig-15s cant do jackshit unless it zooms down, away from the fight, potentially out of SB rendering sight, and then zoom climbing back up before forcing a head-on. And it's suprisingly very easy to get a mig-15 to miss while in a horten.
ZdrytchX's -{Reference Channel Horten can keep up a zoomclimb,yes, but not a sustained climb or high-angle climb, because it has a worse TWR! :D. yes Drag and Lift are there too,but at very high climbing angles,Lift plays a minor role (since it's affects the plane at the sin(climbing-angle,measured to the horizontal axis)) Mig15bis: loaded weight: ~ 5000kg (gaijing, datasheet) Thrust:1 × Klimov VK-1 centrifugal flow turbojet, 26.5 kN (6,000 lbf) thrust TWR= 26 500 N /5000 kg = 5,3 N /kg Horten: Loaded weight:(from gaijin datasheet) 7500kg! Thrust 2 × Junkers Jumo 004B turbojet, 8.7 kN (1,956 lbf) each TWR: 2x8700N / 7500kg = 2.3 N/kg The MiG has twice the TWR than the Ho229!! I would want to test at what high angle the Horten has the same Lift as the Mig 15. :D! Would be interesting. Maybe it's never the case since Lift = 0.5*Cl* density*v²*(wing Area) since the ho has more than twice the wing area: L(horten) / L (mig)= (horten-v)²*A(horten)*cl(ho) *[ (mig-v)² * A(mig)*(cl(mig)) ] ^ -1 -> L(ho)/L(mig)= ho--v²*2A(mig)*cl(ho) * [ mig v²* cl(mig) * A(mig) = ho v²/ mig v² * cl(ho)/cl(mig) * 2 The Ho does have a lower wingloading tho ,due to the bigger wing area.. in SB I prefer horten as you can just abuse the trim,not too lose much speed during turns. it limits turning at high speed ( 500mph+) but it is worth it !:P
+hotel_india Who said anything about climbing? The aircraft retains energy and accelerates faster at over 550 to 600. I climb at over that speed because it would be stupid not to but i never once in this video linked speed to climb.
hotel_india Of course it does but again, I never linked to two as I don't sustained climb in any Jet I fly, I burst climb where only retention matters as the aircraft will be loosing speed due to high AoA so acceleration becomes irrelevant. You linked them in your original comment I never did.
hotel_india It's inefficient in WT's meta. Its almost always faster to gain speed at low alt in level flight, burst to altitude and then regain speed on the way to the engagement zone. Sustained climb runs the risk of you being intercepted while still climbing by aircraft that burst climbed.
Is it too late to ask what convergence you use? I just unlocked this jet and it's my first. This video has been super helpful I'm just wondering what convergence suits the jet best, or is it preference?
would you like to see in war thunder the Yokosuka MXY7 Ohka jet which was used for kamikaze? i think it can be a bomber medication which will operate like a controllable bomb
The 229 just got a major uptier in its BR. It's now 7.3 in arcade and 8.0 in realistic. That's right, the performance of players in this jet against other players in the planes this thing fights is apparently so one sided that the devs have uptiered it to make it capable of fighting top end jets in the game. This is why the floating BR system is a bad idea. They expect the 229 to hold its own against Hunters, MiG-17s and Saber F-2s, all based on the fact that players have no idea how to fly against this plane.
I had no idea that jet aircraft had an ideal speed to be running at to get max thrust output, so thanks for that. My question is, if the ideal IAS for the early German jet engines is 550Km/h, what's the ideal IAS for the MiG-15bis or the CL-13A?
I hate this thing, it's so OP for its BR. For example, in the mk 24 spit I am almost always (maybe 8/10 games when against germany) facing 229s and they are both faster and can out turn you too. Unless the 229 pilot flys in front of your guns, you're dead!
+Ser Garlan Tyrell doesn't make the 229 OP, it makes the spits BR too high, lowering it will make it club, putting the horten up will make it too vulnerable - and this is the problem with the BR system being capped at 9.0
+Ser Garlan Tyrell try scissoring or rolling scissors, they have bad a bad roll rate. you can make them over shoot and if your good they will fly in front of your guns
ok between a stock horten and a fully upgraded one there are indeed miles. I watched your speed after take off and you easily gained the recommended speed for it. My stock horten struggles to get up to 500 kph after take off. It need several kilometers to get to that speed. I see aswell for how long your Horten keeps that critical airspeed up on the ground of about 970 kph. A stock Horten loses its speed so fast in this situation and you are back to ~810 kph where every f80 jumps on you. I think that's why I still hate fighting f80 jets with it. The stock syndrome is just painful. Your snapshot on that first P80 was nice, that's why I first grind the new belts and cannon upgrade. They don't work at all stock. The dispersion is phenomenal and the stock belt sparkles like hell.
Don't worry you will get there. I remember my first day with horten, it was like a truck with wings, but fully upgraded is my number one favorite plane from the german tree. When i get bored i go AB and come with a score +10-0 K-D xD
Mate I'm not saying that you are wrong but this plane does everything well, how I like to use it nowadays is just airbrake on and dogfight the hell out of the props, keep it under 500kph and the wings won't rip in any turn.
Magz could you do a how to boom and zoom guide? I am currently stuck in mid tier two American planes because I just can't get any kills. I try to be smart and climb for altitude to dive, but I keep getting either out climbed and shoot down, or I can't hit anything when I dive.
Forgive me for being a T5 newb (best plane is at T4 and... well, the way I've been flying I've gone back to T1) but how come the Thunderjet gets an airspawn? And does the same apply to the Komet?
Magz would it be possible if you did some gameplay of either the vampire or the venom (seeing as the latter got a new fm), im mainly asking as I'm planing on getting them as my first jets, as im half way unlocking the tempest 2 at the moment and would like an up to date idea of how to play them
It seems like the hardest thing I have to deal with his my team wiping within 5-7 minutes and ending up having to fight multiple f80c with at most two to three friendly aircraft. I wish there was a way for me to do well without my team's skill being a factor, but I just don't know how to deal with those kinds of odds :(
3 kills in jets RB, IN PREMIUM ACCOUNT, less than 4000 RPs... Welcome to Grind Thunder! Also, I'd like to know if Magz is paid or affiliated in any way with Gajin. He seems to have a certain Anti-German bias. No offense meant. (My rational being trying to find the smallest thing to put down the Do 335, like the different lengths of the prop shaft of the front and back engine, and also failing to mention the different behaviour of the material called wood, in the Horten and in the Laggs\LAs) Again, not trying to offend. Also, I'm not German.
Magz, could you possibly fly out the Meteor F Mk. 3 and talk about its struggles? I know it's a heavy request as the Meteor Mk 3 is a painful thing to fly at its current BR but I would greatly appreciate a video on it.
I made a mistake of putting a talisman on my mk3' which it isn't much of a problem since I always do good in it and already on my way to the g41, I could've done it for the sea meteor which is best
I hate these things they piss me off because it's hard to counter them when you don't have a fully upgraded p80 and also because .50cals do sweet fa damage compared to the 30mm cannons you find of the enemy jets
Magz, do you think you can make another video of the Me 262 "Komet" I'm reaching that level of planes and I know you have a video already but updated would be amazing, sorry for asking
can you make a video on how to fly a p-51d-5. if you go to live.warthunder, I got a guy named "Headstick" to make me a skin if you want to use. the skin is called "miss judy" it was requested by my in game name (Derp618)
this is how the German aces few all their jets IRL. ..."speed is life"
With any highly maneuverable aircraft, the ability to turn-fight is a _contingency_ for when you run out of options (altitude)
Every turn-fighter should be climbing anyway to give themselves the very same option Magz has here. Rather than be the choice target for the enemy, you get to have the choice
Could you potentially make "How I fly..." a series?
+Creepy_guy2428 yes please
+Creepy_guy2428 yassss
+Creepy_guy2428 Yes!
+MagzTV Please do this!
+Creepy_guy2428 JUST DO IT! DON'T LET YOUR DREAMS BE DREAMS! YESTERDAY YOU SAID TOMORROW, SO JUST DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+Creepy_guy2428 That's basically every war thunder video he does..............
this plane scares me sometimes. everytime I see it in game I think this plane could have won the war
Well, Not all. The V3 was extensively tested by the US post WW2 before being decommissioned. It's currently being restored by the Smithsonian.
Prototypes usually filled with flaws.
There are lot of "IF"
If those flaws were solved who knows?
Well... it is a complicated story. It depends how you define "prototype" and how "proof of concept". There is a lot of information on the internet.
That is good news!
genaricname69 wrong only one crashed because the engine exploded on landing which was a issue of the engine not the plane
229 is definitely my favorite jet in the game. Americans don't expect it to be so fast, and many try to turn fight with it. It has a nice mix of BnZ and maneuver fighting capabilities, especially after they introduced the maximum Gs mechanic that stops your wings from ripping right away.
War Thunder: How I fly the Horten Ho 229 //1.55//
So after many comments and emails time to dive back into Era V and take a look at an old favorite, The Ho 229. I hope you enjoy!
I don't know about other people but when I got my first 229 before it was buffed and after the buff mine was already spaded. Whenever I fly now I almost always get at least 3 kills. Anyhow love your videos magz your channel is definitely the most helpful.
+MagzTV how about the rare case that the ho229 fights the f2h
+Oven Noneya Wait for them to try to turn fight you (They always do) and kill them. XD
+MagzTV good fighting magz though lol I actually kinda prefer when you play Subnautica. I actually picked it up because it looked interesting to me. Sadly i dont have a good enough video card right now to play it but my GF was given a free R9 380 4GB so I'm getting an upgrade soon. Can't wait to see the next video mate, keep up the good work.
+MagzTV Thanks Magz :)
Seeing you flying makes me want to get War Thunder again.
:+Timur Pirkhal just do it!:D
björn sjöblom I can't. Since some update War Thunder stoped working on my PC. Technical support said I need to update my video card drivers, gave me the link, I used it, updated. As the result War Thunder didn't start working and my OS slowly broke.
Hmm thats sad:(try install update urself.from a side otherwise maybe they got u wrong update or reinstall it all togheter and wt to and hope thats work:)
+Timur Pirkhal it is possible that you need vsync on otherwise the game just crashes itself
HardAsSponge It doesn't start to begin with. Straight after pressing "Play" in launcher it tells me about imposibility to launch.
I've had my eyes on the Ho-229 for 3 years grinding through the tec tree, this video is amazing and helps me learn what I've waited for!
this is the most help full vid that i've seen on war thunder pls do more of these i went from 0 to 1 kill every match to 2 to 3 kills every match
2:00 -- An excellent opening demonstration and explanation for why to build up energy after leaving the runway but before climbing.
Such a nice looking plane, it's a shame they didn't make a few more of them.
the horten brothers were very smart in putting the engines and wings at an angle, that way, when flying waterpass with the engines, the wings are still angled making is possible for the aircraft to catch more air
Very useful, I finally know why my MiG-9 climbs not too well!
I either fly the Ho-229 like a medium altitude BnZer (until it all goes on the deck) or like a scumbag tank farmer~. Depends on the map and if I need RP in droves, though I won't ignore an ally in trouble like our mate in the background of this video (there's something satisfying about shooting HVAP through a P-80s wing and watching it flip upside down :P)
+BlauDieBlau Yeah ...or the p80s rear fall off......the hvap is better against planes than air targets^^
+_YellowJacket_ Really? Is HVAP the way to go for air targets?
+Xtremespino
No, lol, it's mainly a troll thing xD
Air targets is far more reliable
+BlauDieBlau I've seen you around in game. Good f2 pilot.
+Mason Holley
Uhh, what kind of F2? Because if you mean sabre F-2, I don't have one xD.
I do have a banshee tho. So if you mean that, thanks!
Turbojets gaining thrust with airspeed? Eh? Seems WT's developers are misunderstanding significant aspects of jet engine performance. To be sure, jet engines *do* change thrust in response to airspeed and altitude, but it's not nearly as simple as "below this speed, thrust is 30% less than maximum" and it's almost certain that maximum performance for turbojets modeled in WT should occur while static and remain mostly constant throughout their performance range. Large swings in performance are extremely weird.
If WT models aerodynamics at least half way decent, you want to accelerate to your best rate-of-climb speed and stay there with the thrust levers at maximum continuous. Then again WT's physics being all arcady, I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't the case.
+totoritko yes!
5:15 "EXTREME OVERLOADING 2G"
I mean I know the instructor is annoying, but this is almost insulting.
7:50 The sparkles are real
Seems like this sort of playstyle requires the enemy team not pressure you. I can see this whole "stay fast" strategy falling apart the moment a plane with superior flight characteristics does start giving you trouble, and then there's really not much to do from there.
Thanx again, Magz! I'm thinking about strapping on the 229 again after almost six months of grinding on the US and UK trees. BTW, I found out the hard way that the ground belts are useless outside of busting on tanks. They pass through other planes like they are tissue paper and do little damage.
Even when going for ground targets, I've never had any problems facing USA jets. If and when I do decide to go for full air combat, this thing is an absolute beast and is a clubbing machine.
step one: join arcade battle.
step two: make insane moves without destroying your wings
Ho in ARB: can exceed 11Gs or it rips, stay under 8 to be safe most of the time
Ho in AAB: watch me do 26 GS lol
Well that was a joy to watch. Seeing a well flown HO229 is as rare as a honest politician. Most of the pilots just kill tanks in it making themselves easy targets and never utilizing its quite big potential sadly. BTW I personally fly the HO almost the same way as you maybe a little more aggressively. Also can't wait for the next subnautica video. :)
Magz is flying my FAVOURITE plane!!!! :DDDDD
Yeah i always have to fight Hortens in my 6.3 props, and they are faster and turn better, so as far as im concerned its fine, maybe even undertiered. Plus its deadly in groundforces.
Nice to know I appeared in one of MagZ videos!
it's so damn pretty...
in SB it is even more siginificant, as trim can be abused to lessen the maximum pull of deflection, resulting in a less speed loss during turns,while still maingtaining optimal turn
Yep yep yep. It's easy to tell the difference between a good horten pilot and a bad horten pilot because of their engagement speed. If a horten actually uses energy it's a monster and a handful for the F-80. The scariest thing is that the horten will actually outdive the F-80. It's only in an extended level chase that the F-80 will start to pull away from it.
A tip for all shooting star pilots: Try to get the horten to commit to vertical maneuvers. You have much better energy retention in the vertical and you'll be able to use this to drain the horten of its energy and set yourself up to BnZ. You just have to keep moving to avoid those 30's and be aware that while you have better vertical energy retention, the Horten doesn't understand what stalling is. Another good method to use against hortens and arado C's is burst climbing in the shooting stars. Climb a couple thousand feet, level out to gain speed, climb another couple thousand feet, level out, etc. Your acceleration and climb rate are much better than these two aircraft so once you get them to roughly equal energy as yourself start to slowly wear them down until you're both above them and traveling at a higher speed.
Hey Magz. I'm not entirely sure about what you're you're saying about thrust and speed. In a pure turbojet at constant alititude, thrust output will remain nearly constant with a slight drop from static up until ram air takes over and returns thrust to nearly static levels. I think what you may be referring to is the way vy for rate of climb works. Rate of climb is determined by excess power against power required. This is a regime where the jet has an advantage at high speed over a prop as power continues to increase with speed as it does not loose thrust at high speed, unlike a prop.
holy christ, the amount of information and play by play you put out is amazing in your commentaries, you have no idea how helpful this is to someone like me who is struggling. Explanations are near perfect, couldn't have found a better video, thank you so much.
+Vore1998 You are most welcome mate :)
Another great video Magz.
+Creepy_guy2428 Thanks mate.
When you see how advanced german engineering was even in the later days of WW2 you wonder what crazy stuff they had designed and could destroy before capture !
For you: Everyone lines up perfectly for you to kill them.
For me: Everyone turns literally the whole time.
For you: No one gets a hit.
For me: Everyone one-hits me.
For you: Most of the people stay low.
For me: Everyone stays at a height of 5K meters.
And the funny thing is: I do exactly the same as you do.
People don't line up for me, I position myself so they are in a line.
People don't one hit be me because I keep my speed high and never bleed unless absolutely necessary all while making sure to keep as little of my profile visible to those targets I know are able to get guns on me limiting there firing options.
People also don't stay low for me, I just avoid combat until the majority of the team has started there dives from 5k onto low altitude targets and then I attack.
Apparently you don't do what I do, There is nothing magical about the way I fly. It's patience and practice and knowledge of how such matches almost always play out and using that to my advantage.
Anyone can do it and get the same results, It's just a matter of time and learning to know how.
As and extremely new jet pilot (I'd say I have less than 20 games in jets so far) I don't have any of those issues. my only problem with the ho229 is that I stuck at getting her guns on target, i suck at leading them correctly and rolling to anticipate their attempts to evade. (Well, that and I don't have AA belts yet so on those rare occasions i do score hits they often deal no significant damage). So the only problem is my skill, not the aircraft.
If they stay at 5K that's no biggie the ho has a service ceiling of 12K (m), you'll just have to climb a bit more before you head into the battle.
That way you have so much air speed on anyone that could pose a threat that you can get outside of gun range the moment someone tries to turn on you from the bottom, side or top with only a tiny course adjustment.
anyone who tries to engage you from the rear while you zoom off into the distance is presented with the slimmest profile of any jet in the game, and there are 2 massive jet engines between their guns and your pilot so if they do score a hit they only take out an engine so you can still limp home on 1 engine and 800km/h.
Energy fighting always beats turning ability unless you fall in the trap of throttling back
Well, not really enjoying the jets gameplay in game, but I will give it another try following your tips given in this video.
The reason why a lot of Horton pilots are dying is because they ground attack until they die witch opens up and opportunity to dive down from altitude in my f-80 to kill you and get back up to altitude now my main problem is when I run into someone is competent with it XD
This plane is really good at teaching people "Energy Fighting" If you can learn to retain energy with this plane you will be a master with all...
Going back here.. after reinstalling wt last year and getting my own ho229
Good work, unlocked jets but have never figured them out. This makes a lot of sense.
Thank you for this well explained tutorial!
if u want to fly the ho229 correct then do combinations with BnZ(for props) and turnfighting(for jets)
Thank you, that helped me fly the Horten ;)
Am I the only one to notice that they put a metal sheen on a wooden airplane here? Great video, by the way. Speed is life.
Love your work. Some cockpit views would be nice. 😀
perfect timing! im about to have this :D
i love the ho 229 so i will try this
You gotta love the MK 103's
+René Perschon (Leopard2A5) If only I could fit them to a 109 :D
+MagzTV Totally agree, personally i don't hit shit with the MK 108's in the various 109's. I'm surprised the 262 works for me :P
P.S. Being german, i love how you say Minengeschoss :D
try out the spitfire mk14 in sim its THE BEST SOUND EVER that the engine makes and a joy to fly
Hey Magz, would you consider doing a video like this on the German Mig 15bis? After recently unlocking it, I find myself struggling to perform well. The unique guns and lack of practice is killing me, and I would love to learn some tips from you!
Cheers!
love the ho 229!!!
Ho229 deserves 8.0. I can deal with mig-15bis and f-86 F-2/Cl13s without a problem in it, in fact I often end up above the not-so-smart jets in custom duels. Horten is also faster than the F2H on-the-deck which is just hilarious if you ask me.
Also the horten's flight model is borked; you can pull a 300 meter split-s, you can fly with one control surface (aileron-elevator) with both independant pitch and roll control etc. etc.
The engines were already sufficient with the old 'super weak engines" flight model so I find the current FM plentyful for 1v1 against almost every other jet. In fact I find it so well that if I'm flying an F2H I find I can do absolutely nothing against a well horten player
+ZdrytchX's -{Reference Channel I struggle with P80 and F80 because I don't know how to fly it right, every time I would ask how to fly it, I either get some one saying "get gud scrub/nub" or no answer at all, and that leads me to play it wrong all game and I end up getting killed, so I've stayed away from jets. Now that MagsTV put out a video on a good way to play it, I'm going to go and try it out. and to answer you, no putting the 229 at 8.0 because you can kill 9.0 jets, is like saying the Panzer IV F2 should be at 5.7 because I can kill 6.7 tanks with it. just because I can do well with it doesn't mean every one else can as well.
Well I do certainly have a preference for higher wing lift to weight ratio aircraft. But I do however suck in some aircraft that I still think are good (e.g. bf 109 F-4, G-2, He 112 A-0, Yak-1b and even strangely enough Ho 229 mainly because of its cockpit in SB) and are somehow good stats-wise in aircraft that I think are just crappy at performance (He 162, Me 262 A-1a).
But in custom battles, things like 1v1s against supreme jets like the mig-15bis, the horten really does shine so well that I have a hard time dying and have more control over the dogfight as oppose to dealing with planes like the Tempest II and F8F-1b.
It's one of those planes that balances the other way around. Typhoon mk 1b/L was very good in SB, so good that you could say it was on par with the Ta 152 H-1 in the old days, but had a BR of 3.7 and so was eventually raised to 5.0 and fitted strangely just nice... until they nerfed the flight model that is.
+ZdrytchX's -{Reference Channel smart mig 15's will use your Ho's heavy weight against you
wut did you just say
even if the mig15 could be lighter than a horten (I don't have proof it is though) the horten has a considerably larger wing lift coefficient for its drag. In fact I just make use of the lift by spiral climbing and mig-15s cant do jackshit unless it zooms down, away from the fight, potentially out of SB rendering sight, and then zoom climbing back up before forcing a head-on. And it's suprisingly very easy to get a mig-15 to miss while in a horten.
ZdrytchX's -{Reference Channel Horten can keep up a zoomclimb,yes, but not a sustained climb or high-angle climb, because it has a worse TWR! :D. yes Drag and Lift are there too,but at very high climbing angles,Lift plays a minor role (since it's affects the plane at the sin(climbing-angle,measured to the horizontal axis))
Mig15bis:
loaded weight: ~ 5000kg (gaijing, datasheet)
Thrust:1 × Klimov VK-1 centrifugal flow turbojet, 26.5 kN (6,000 lbf) thrust
TWR= 26 500 N /5000 kg = 5,3 N /kg
Horten:
Loaded weight:(from gaijin datasheet) 7500kg!
Thrust 2 × Junkers Jumo 004B turbojet, 8.7 kN (1,956 lbf) each
TWR: 2x8700N / 7500kg = 2.3 N/kg
The MiG has twice the TWR than the Ho229!! I would want to test at what high angle the Horten has the same Lift as the Mig 15. :D! Would be interesting. Maybe it's never the case since
Lift = 0.5*Cl* density*v²*(wing Area)
since the ho has more than twice the wing area:
L(horten) / L (mig)= (horten-v)²*A(horten)*cl(ho)
*[ (mig-v)² * A(mig)*(cl(mig)) ] ^ -1
->
L(ho)/L(mig)= ho--v²*2A(mig)*cl(ho)
* [ mig v²* cl(mig) * A(mig)
= ho v²/ mig v² * cl(ho)/cl(mig) * 2
The Ho does have a lower wingloading tho ,due to the bigger wing area.. in SB I prefer horten as you can just abuse the trim,not too lose much speed during turns. it limits turning at high speed ( 500mph+) but it is worth it !:P
Beautiful!
Horton climbs best at 500~600 kmh is due to induced drag, and not because more thrust.
+hotel_india Who said anything about climbing? The aircraft retains energy and accelerates faster at over 550 to 600. I climb at over that speed because it would be stupid not to but i never once in this video linked speed to climb.
+MagzTV
best climb implies best acceleration and energy retention.
hotel_india Of course it does but again, I never linked to two as I don't sustained climb in any Jet I fly, I burst climb where only retention matters as the aircraft will be loosing speed due to high AoA so acceleration becomes irrelevant. You linked them in your original comment I never did.
+MagzTV
Is sustained climb bad in jets when playing War Thunder?
hotel_india It's inefficient in WT's meta. Its almost always faster to gain speed at low alt in level flight, burst to altitude and then regain speed on the way to the engagement zone.
Sustained climb runs the risk of you being intercepted while still climbing by aircraft that burst climbed.
Is it too late to ask what convergence you use? I just unlocked this jet and it's my first. This video has been super helpful I'm just wondering what convergence suits the jet best, or is it preference?
thanks magz
would you like to see in war thunder the Yokosuka MXY7 Ohka jet which was used for kamikaze? i think it can be a bomber medication which will operate like a controllable bomb
Can we get a shirt that says "fix your shit gaijin"😂
Poor Me262 at the start of the video. He must've forgotten that his central gearlegg is in the front.
How do you feel about the people who ground-pound in the Horten?
Hey +MagzTV can you show us how you might fly a meteor f mk3 against mig15bis mig17s and cl13s ?
It's simple. Step 1: you don't. Step 2: research the sea Jesus with your griffon spitfire
+William Ruiz cooper im doing fine against top tier jets in my stock meteor fmk3 about 3 kills per match. I just wanna see how magz would do it
+Jonathan LaPrade Truly honestly I'm amazed. I've had about 10 matches with the Mk.3 and I have 2 or 3 kills. I gave up and went back to my F-25 Sabre
+William Ruiz cooper all you really have to do is climb to the bottom of the cloud, hope nobody notices you, then catch then at low energy
+Jonathan LaPrade most if the time I play on Korea but there are almost never clouds
The 229 just got a major uptier in its BR. It's now 7.3 in arcade and 8.0 in realistic. That's right, the performance of players in this jet against other players in the planes this thing fights is apparently so one sided that the devs have uptiered it to make it capable of fighting top end jets in the game. This is why the floating BR system is a bad idea. They expect the 229 to hold its own against Hunters, MiG-17s and Saber F-2s, all based on the fact that players have no idea how to fly against this plane.
I had no idea that jet aircraft had an ideal speed to be running at to get max thrust output, so thanks for that. My question is, if the ideal IAS for the early German jet engines is 550Km/h, what's the ideal IAS for the MiG-15bis or the CL-13A?
Just unlocked the batplane! :-D so happy!
This still applies today
Someday I'd like to get a jet in WT or even a top teir tank, I just find that grind so painful!
I hate this thing, it's so OP for its BR.
For example, in the mk 24 spit I am almost always (maybe 8/10 games when against germany) facing 229s and they are both faster and can out turn you too.
Unless the 229 pilot flys in front of your guns, you're dead!
+Ser Garlan Tyrell doesn't make the 229 OP, it makes the spits BR too high, lowering it will make it club, putting the horten up will make it too vulnerable - and this is the problem with the BR system being capped at 9.0
+Ser Garlan Tyrell 1. get out of realistic and stay in arcade.
2. get altitude...
+Ser Garlan Tyrell try scissoring or rolling scissors, they have bad a bad roll rate. you can make them over shoot and if your good they will fly in front of your guns
+therealmrtwonuts and unlock a single plane in about 500 hours...
+therealmrtwonuts and unlock a single plane in about 500 hours...
ok between a stock horten and a fully upgraded one there are indeed miles. I watched your speed after take off and you easily gained the recommended speed for it. My stock horten struggles to get up to 500 kph after take off. It need several kilometers to get to that speed. I see aswell for how long your Horten keeps that critical airspeed up on the ground of about 970 kph. A stock Horten loses its speed so fast in this situation and you are back to ~810 kph where every f80 jumps on you. I think that's why I still hate fighting f80 jets with it. The stock syndrome is just painful. Your snapshot on that first P80 was nice, that's why I first grind the new belts and cannon upgrade. They don't work at all stock. The dispersion is phenomenal and the stock belt sparkles like hell.
Don't worry you will get there. I remember my first day with horten, it was like a truck with wings, but fully upgraded is my number one favorite plane from the german tree. When i get bored i go AB and come with a score +10-0 K-D xD
Mate I'm not saying that you are wrong but this plane does everything well, how I like to use it nowadays is just airbrake on and dogfight the hell out of the props, keep it under 500kph and the wings won't rip in any turn.
wicked shooting........
I hope you'll readily jump on this, but i'm dying to see some boomerang mk1 gameplay.
Magz, can you fly the F-82? I started flying it out more recently and it actually feels pretty solid with a good climb rate.
Magz mate please do a video on the darn F-2 saber i have flown it soooo many times but i never know how to fly it proper please do a video on it
Magz could you do a how to boom and zoom guide? I am currently stuck in mid tier two American planes because I just can't get any kills. I try to be smart and climb for altitude to dive, but I keep getting either out climbed and shoot down, or I can't hit anything when I dive.
@MagzTV >>> At about 01:31 in this video: Find any TREE BRANCHES in your elevons during your postflight walk-around?
😊😊😊😊
Nothing bad against that autosquad guy but farming RP while the fw are fighting jets was annoying to watch.
Nice video Magz!
Could please do the same with the Me 163 Komet? It seems that nobody loves this little plane. And I'm struggling to fly it.
Can you maybe say your oppinion on the Ho-229 at 8.0?
love this video.
Forgive me for being a T5 newb (best plane is at T4 and... well, the way I've been flying I've gone back to T1) but how come the Thunderjet gets an airspawn? And does the same apply to the Komet?
Magz would it be possible if you did some gameplay of either the vampire or the venom (seeing as the latter got a new fm), im mainly asking as I'm planing on getting them as my first jets, as im half way unlocking the tempest 2 at the moment and would like an up to date idea of how to play them
It seems like the hardest thing I have to deal with his my team wiping within 5-7 minutes and ending up having to fight multiple f80c with at most two to three friendly aircraft. I wish there was a way for me to do well without my team's skill being a factor, but I just don't know how to deal with those kinds of odds :(
Yes. Thats the problem. If theres a few good f-80 pilots.. its game over.
Alec Harvey Holy hell youtube is fucked right now...
pkpgpk what. the. fuck.
I've seen that on a few comments xd
I have that too
3 kills in jets RB, IN PREMIUM ACCOUNT, less than 4000 RPs...
Welcome to Grind Thunder!
Also, I'd like to know if Magz is paid or affiliated in any way with Gajin. He seems to have a certain Anti-German bias. No offense meant. (My rational being trying to find the smallest thing to put down the Do 335, like the different lengths of the prop shaft of the front and back engine, and also failing to mention the different behaviour of the material called wood, in the Horten and in the Laggs\LAs)
Again, not trying to offend. Also, I'm not German.
A ho-229 is perfect at its br
awesome video:)haha hope the ho 229 isnt get buffed now when more people learn to fly it and the american teams gonna say its op^^
Thanks Magz great tips:)
nice video, learn a lot. you have to do more videos like that, hoy i fly.....
Magz, could you possibly fly out the Meteor F Mk. 3 and talk about its struggles? I know it's a heavy request as the Meteor Mk 3 is a painful thing to fly at its current BR but I would greatly appreciate a video on it.
I made a mistake of putting a talisman on my mk3' which it isn't much of a problem since I always do good in it and already on my way to the g41, I could've done it for the sea meteor which is best
Your guns mounted in the nose. They do some serious damage
Use the Lithuanian air force roundel as red decals.
Is there a general rule or guide you can link us to where we can see the optimum speeds for thrust?
its so pretty!!!!!
I hate these things they piss me off because it's hard to counter them when you don't have a fully upgraded p80 and also because .50cals do sweet fa damage compared to the 30mm cannons you find of the enemy jets
Horten Ho 229 is not a type for team play in my opinion , it contributes so little to the battle...
these days I would probably agree with you, This video is quite old now.
buildings looked like they were pulsing in the beginning. Render problem?
Magz, do you think you can make another video of the Me 262 "Komet" I'm reaching that level of planes and I know you have a video already but updated would be amazing, sorry for asking
I really enjoyed this video :)
Great vids
YAY HO229 :D
hello brother im watching this in patch 1.73 Can you make these with the new Ho? they made silent changes to it
Hey Magz what do you use for screen recording? Also, do you know of any good free alternatives?
+Nightkid771 I use Nvidia Shadowplay, Its free but only usable if you have a Nvidia card as Its part of the Nvidia software.
try OBS othewrwise it free and pretty good:)
could you possibly do a similar video on the ME-262 a1a?
can you make a video on how to fly a p-51d-5. if you go to live.warthunder, I got a guy named "Headstick" to make me a skin if you want to use. the skin is called "miss judy" it was requested by my in game name (Derp618)