What Does It Mean to Say We’re Predestined?
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I like that last little description.
I also like the one I came up with (at least I don’t know anyone who’s said it like this):
“We do not know what God knows about us, until we freely choose it.”
Yes, that is a really awesome saying right there. It's kinda like how God told people in the Bible to not do something even though he knew they wouldn't listen. And when they chose not to listen, it only confirms to them what God knew ahead of time.
@@TheGravityShifter God doesn't need to know the exact course of events prior to anybody acting. In the example you gave, God, instead,, reads every thought, every emotion, every intention and can easily say in that moment what your limited humanity is intending to do.
Your sentence equally applies to a mother and her children. She knows the child so well, so she tells them what to do knowing they won't listen, they subsequently don't listen, and it only confirms she knew what they were going to do ahead of time. No predestination needed.
@@SpaceCadet4Jesus How can God be all knowing if he can't know things let alone things he actually needs to know?
On the day of Judgement, those who are going to the New Earth will be rewarded based on every deed and thought they've ever made, while those who are going to the Lake of Fire will have a certain level of severity of punishment based on every deed and thought they've ever made. Meaning (as far as Lake of Fire goes) you could argue the "fires will burn hotter for Hitler vs an Honest Pagan."
Lemme ask you something... if predestination can't exist alongside free will, then only one can be true. So why is it we can't freely choose to avoid dying today? God has control over this too, or does he not?
And keep in mind another truth... we aren't the only ones with free will, so do the angels, and so does God Himself, who is infinite.
And just for you I'll say this. Just like how parents can limit their children, God can limit us whom he created.
@@SpaceCadet4Jesus
Alternative explanation: God knows you far too well for **you** to comprehend.
**This** notion confirms the truth that he created you.
Thanks for the informative video! The Lutheran view as I understand it is that Christ was predestined, and if you're in Christ, you're counted among the predestined
God foreordains all events. The fact that the future is determinate, however, does not mean the future is determined.
God doesn't need to foreordain "all" events in order to get his purposes accomplished just like we don't need to foreordain everyone around us to accomplish our purposes. God does foreordain his specific goals though, meaning in scripture he states "Christ will be born in Bethlehem" but doesn't give a timeframe. He'll do it when he feels the time is ripe, no matter what humans do.
@@SpaceCadet4Jesus thought provoking
Determinate? Determined? What do those even mean? Why would god foreordain events destined to kill and maim innocent people, animals and plants? Utter nonsense.
"It is up to God whether we find ourselves in a world in which we are predestined, but it is up to us whether we are predestined in the world in which we find ourselves."
This makes absolutely no sense...
If in the first part God decides to actuate a world in which we are NOT predestined, then the second half of that statement is not true because we can't be predestined haha...
Hurray! This video and most of the responses to it are totally nonsensical.
I like short informative videos.
Short or long, to be informative they have to contain information. This one explains christian dogma, but has no information.
Wow…that answer didn’t really answer the question.( it just went circle, round and round)
The people who never heard the word of Christ would not have believed in him if they had heard. That's what Craig is saying. That would include ~ 100 billion people. Does anyone really believe this?
The Greek word for predestine is proorizó, which means to foreordain, predetermine, or mark out beforehand. This word is used mainly by Paul, with one other instance in Acts.
The Greek verb for choose or elect (eg You did not choose me but I chose you John 15:16) is eklegó, which means to pick out for myself, choose, elect, or select. The corresponding adjective is eklektos, which means chosen out, elect, choice, or selected. The correponding noun is ekloge, which means a choosing out, selecting, choice (by God).
The Greek adjective for called is kletos (eg many are called but few are chosen Matthew 22:14) means called, invited, summoned by God to an office or to salvation. The corresponding verb for call is kaleo, which means to call, summon, invite. This has a weaker sense than chosen, and they are contrasted in Matt 22:14.
The words predestine, election and choose contain the claim that God selects. It may sound offensive to us and unfair, but is WLC and Molinism trying to water this down to avoid the offence?
@@aletheia8054Phil 1:6:
⁶ Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Man is the only creation of God that has freewill. No other creatures on earth has that.
Therefore God predestined the way before the foundation of the world and you decide which path to the narrow gate.
I see an ice cream stand and I make a free will decision whether or not to stop and get a cone. A tiger sees an antelope and makes a free will decision whether to chase it. Stray cats on my patio see my evening food offering and make a free will decision to partake or not (split about 50/50). Any opinion you offer about god and creation and free will is based on many discussions among ancient christian bishops in the first 3 centuries after Christ.
@@stevepierce6467- Animal attack when provoked and eat when hungry: Human being are able to instill self control, reason a way out when provoked and fast even when hungry. That is freewill.
Therefore if you see some cat not eating means they are not hungry/sick or the food tasted like shit..
@@gojohnnygo3209 you have no way of knowing if my decision to buy a cone was a totally free decision, or pushed by a grumbling stomach or goaded by my addiction to ice cream, or in fact a deep-seated genetic urge for sweetened dairy product over which I have no control.
It’s so refreshing to hear issues like predestination explained intelligently and succinctly. Thank you so much, Dr. Craig.
Since no such thing as predestination is known to exist, it is akin to pixie dust or unicorn stampedes being "explained intelligently."
Smartest man alive
I like this man. He actually helped me reconcile Adam and Eve with evolution. He also helped me reconcile faith and science altogether.
@@MrFossil367ab45gfyth I feel u
@@MrFossil367ab45gfyth What's your testimony of getting saved and coming to Christ.
Evolution is a farce
@@midlander4 Why does that matter? Either it's true or it's not.
What does it mean to say that? It means that people say that we are predestined. Lots of people say lots of nonsense.
Wonder if that fits with my brother's "God is 100 percent responsible for our salvation; we are 100 percent responsible for our sin."
@@midlander4 Again, 100 percent responsible for sin. Can't be any more accountable than that.
I like and read a lot of Dr. Craig, but he's mistaken here. Molinism and the concept of "middle knowledge" can be found nowhere in scripture. It was invented to try to get around the clear teaching of scripture, that God chooses to have mercy on those whom he chooses. It's not about knowing in advance but about His sovereign choice.
What does he mean by "everybody agrees with predestination in that sense"?
If a chosen group of people were predestined for salvation apart from their ability to freely choose, then the cross of Christ is meaningless.
No. The cross of Christ would still be necessary for fulfilling God's wrath due to the sins of the elect. If God simply let the elect into heaven without a sacrifice, He would be unjust. Every sin committed under the sun must be paid in full; it was either paid by Christ or will be paid by the sinner himself in hell.
@@ramonaraujo471 That’s illogical. If salvation isn’t based on a free choice then Jesus didn’t need to come and be tortured and die on a tree. God could have simply said Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo and absolved the sins of the elect.
Why would Jesus die for the sins of all people if all people cannot be saved?
@@MarkNOTW exactly 👏
@@MarkNOTW It's not illogical at all. The death Jesus experienced is applied to those God chose. Those God chose are being saved by the Messiah's death.
Any judge that said, "Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo" to absolve the guilt of any convict should be thrown out of the judicial system immediately.
I'm shocked you even think that is possible!
The guilt of sinners (convicts) must be dealt with, and this is why the chosen needed Jesus to come and die on a tree so their guilt would be punished on Jesus instead of them having to take the punishment forever in Hell.
If God can somehow say, "Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo" and absolve the sins of the elect, then He could do the same thing for all people.
Your own argument shoots itself in the foot.
We come to God because He drew us to Him.
Jesus answered, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them,..." (John 6 : 44)
The word "draws" is the same word for drawing water from a well. The water does not come to you, it must be drawn out of the well.
Another point that needs to be made clear is when the Bible tells us Christ died for the world. Israel believed they were the chosen people of God, and that God was going to deal favorably with them as God punished the nations around them. Instead Jesus shows up and makes it clear God wants to bless ALL the nations. So when the Bible tells us Jesus died for the world it is not saying Jesus died for every single person in existence, but that God's favor is not focused on Israel only. God's favor reaches into ALL the nations and He saves people from everywhere and not just people in the nation of Israel.
@@EyeToob Here's where you need to be honest (I'm serious) and ask yourself if what you believe is found in the Bible. If you reply, please support your claims using at least two verses to avoid cherry picking. I'll do the same.
You: The death Jesus experienced is applied to those God chose. Those God chose are being saved by the Messiah's death.
Me: This is not found in scripture. Scripture states that Jesus died for all people. No where does it state that Jesus died for only the elect.
1 John 2:2: He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Cor 5:15: He died for everyone so that those who receive his new life will no longer live for themselves.
You: The guilt of sinners (convicts) must be dealt with, and this is why the chosen needed Jesus to come and die on a tree so their guilt would be punished on Jesus instead of them having to take the punishment forever in Hell.
Me: Yes, sinners need a savior and all people are sinners. No where does scripture state that only the chosen need Jesus. See above scripture plus John 3:16: For God so loved THE WORLD.
You: Any judge that said, "Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo" to absolve the guilt of any convict should be thrown out of the judicial system immediately.
Me: Agreed. But why wouldnt the god of Calvinism do just that if this god already knew who would be saved? There's No need to provide a sacrifice if they're already unconditionally saved.
You: If God can somehow say, "Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo" and absolve the sins of the elect, then He could do the same thing for all people.
Me: Exactly. If God causes all things, then why not cause all people to be saved? If God desires all people to be saved, then why arent all people going to be saved??
Supporting verses: 1 Tim 2:4: ....who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
1 Peter 3:9: ....not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance
You: We come to God because He drew us to Him. Jesus answered, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them,..." (John 6 : 44)
Me: You're assuming this verse is exclusionary. It isnt. Next verse 6:45: Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me." >>EVERYONE who knew the father would know Jesus and come to him. Verse 47: Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life." John 12:32: And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.”. So, here we see God wants all people to be saved and The Spirit is drawing all people.
You: ...when the Bible tells us Christ died for the world. Israel believed they were the chosen people of God, and that God was going to deal favorably
Me: Exactly. Proving that being "chosen" doesnt ensure salvation. Having faith and believing is what ensures salvation. John 3:16
You: So when the Bible tells us Jesus died for the world it is not saying Jesus died for every single person in existence
Me: This is NOT found in scripture. Please post up verses that state Jesus died for only certain people.
1 John 2:2: He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Cor 5:15: He died for everyone so that those who receive his new life will no longer live for themselves.\
John 3:17: For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
You: God's favor reaches into ALL the nations and He saves people from everywhere
Me: Agreed. State what the conditions are for someone/anyone to be saved >>using scripture
We have free will. Although God can say what our future will be because He is all knowing ( which is what you describe as predestination anyway?), as children of God, loved by God, gifted with Grace and Love, isn’t it up to our obedience as His children and our love for our God the Father that determines if we get to see Him in His Holiness in Heaven?
There's none who seeks after God. Nobody chooses God by listening to the gospel. It's God who regenerate the people then people come to God. If your own salvation depends on your decision choosing God and his son then it's not grace. Grace excludes any human boasting. Saved cannot boast about their salvation and unsaved cannot earn it by their decision of choosing Christ. It's God alone who does everything according to the good pleasure of his will. God is not obligated to show mercy to everyone and on whom he pours out his grace is according to the purpose of his election. All going to hell but God elected some of them to show the riches of his glory. Some receive justice and some receive mercy. Nobody gets injustice. Unsaved are responsible for their sinfulness and saved are excluded from their boasting.
#reformed
I thought you get grace through your faith
@@mitchellcollins7370 Every good thing comes from above. Grace/Faith etc are all from God.
that quote at the end is awesome, gotta write that one down
Humans know are free to do what they like to do and that is "Sin". All the thoughts and desires of a human being are continually evil. There's none good in him which cause him to choose God over sin. Humans are free but only under the boundary of God sin. It's God alone who take them out of that boundary and then people embrace everything which is God's and his son's. That's called grace. God delivers the elected sinners who are captives of their sin.
#reformed view
Predestination sucks simple as that.. we didnt ask to be born or whatever god just decides arbitrarily who gets saved
That would be true given divine causal determinism, where humans have no free will. But Dr. Craig's view of predestination preserves human free will so that no one is condemned who would freely accept salvation. - RF Admin
If "No free will to choose" were true then the Judgment Seat of Christ and the Great White Throne Judgment would be a joke. Think on these things:. how could souls be judged and held responsible if they were predestined without free will? Is that just?.
I think the more pressing and appropriate question isn't what predestination means but what God predestines all of us for. Biblically it's never to eternal life it's always God choosing people, places and things for service and reward. Buy the book, "Chosen to Serve" by Shawn Lazar!
So no? free will doesnt fit into a world where your god exists?
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Predestination is an active part of salvation where God elects people want unto salvation for God's own eternal glory. Romans 8, 9 John 1 and 6, and Ephesians 1 go read it!
If it is up to God, that means: your God has the ability to think. If your God has the ability to think, that means: he has a brain. If he has a brain, that means: he is not infinite.
@@brianbachinger6357
When did I ever say I was a materialist.? I'd appreciate it if you didn't lie and assume things about me that I haven't specifically told you beforehand.
You are confusing the One True God; with the Universal Mind; with the anthropomorphic, tutelary god, called Yahweh. It is so typical of a Christian to give names to things they know nothing about.
EL - was the supreme deity in the Canaanite pantheon and adopted as a name for the Hebrew God. Originally, Yahweh was a subordinate deity to El, to whom El, delegated responsibilities for particular matters and nations, but later Yahweh replaced El as the supreme and only God.
Deu. 32: 8, 9 "When the most High (not Yahweh) divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. For the Lord's (Yahweh) portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.
Gen. 17:7 "And I will establish my covenant (agreement or pact) between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee."
So it was that Yahweh (Jehovah) gathered unto him, the people, given him by the Most High (not to be confused with Ain-Soph).
ONE TRUE GOD: AIN-SOPH -
Your God (Yahweh) is called infinite and absolute. Then, if infinite (limitless) and especially if absolute, how can he be the creator of anything.?
Form implies limitation, and a beginning as well as an end; and, in order to create, a being must think and plan. How can the absolute be supposed to think, to have any relation whatever to that which is limited, finite, and conditioned.? This is a philosophical and logical absurdity. Even the ancient Hebrews rejected such an idea, and therefore, makes of the one and the Absolute Deific Principal an infinite Unity called Ain-Soph.
In order to create, the creator has to become active; and as this is impossible for absoluteness, the infinite principle has to be shown becoming the cause of becoming (not creation) in an indirect way, through the emanation from itself.
Ain-Soph (not Yahweh) is un-knowable and un-nameable, it is neither in a paradise, nor in a particular tree, building, or mountain: it is everywhere, in every atom of the visible as of the invisible cosmos, in, over, and around every invisible atom and divisible molecule; for it is the mysterious power of evolution and involution, the omnipresent, omnipotent, and even omniscient creative potentiality. However, we deny that this Omniscient has the power of thought, since thought is something limited and conditioned. In philosophy absolute unconsciousness is also absolute consciousness, as otherwise, it would not be absolute.
The absolute does not think for the simple reason that it is absolute thought itself. Nor does it exist, for the same reason, as it is absolute existence, and not a being; for, it is be-ness itself. I find it harebrained that Christians want their god to be infinite, and at the same time, they want to give him human characteristics.
MIND - the universal mind is a Hindu concept and you Christians have no right in steeling it; especially, if you refuse to take the time to learn about it. From a Veda text we have the following:
"Universal mind was not; for, there were no Ah-Hi (celestial beings) to contain (manifest) it".
Mind is a name given to the sum of the states of consciousness grouped under thought, will, and feeling. During the long night of rest called, Pralaya, when all existence is dissolved, the Universal Mind remains as a permanent possibility of mental action, or as that abstract absolute thought, of which mind is the concrete relative manifestation.
In short: this refers to the Universal Mind needing a human brain to awakened it from its slumber (Pralaya), and manifest itself, and set it into action. This is why animals, who also have brains, cannot think. Only mankind reservers the claim to be a thinking entity. The Universal Mind does not think unless there is a human brain to manifest itself through.
Every human being is the bearer, or vehicle, of an ego coeval with every other ego; because, all are of the same essence and belong to the primeval emanation from one universal infinite ego. Plato calls the latter the logos (manifested divine principle in man); which is one with the universal mind or soul, not the anthropomorphic, extra-cosmic and personal god in which so many Theists believe. Do not confuse the two.
Mahat (Universal Mind) is the source of Manas. The latter is the mind in man. Manas is also called Kshetrajna or embodied spirit.
1) Atma, the Higher Self, is neither your spirit or mine, but like sunlight shines on all. It is the universally diffused divine principle, and is inseparable from it's one and absolute meta-spirit, as the sunbeam is inseparable from sunlight.
2) Spiritual soul is only its vehicle. Neither each separately, nor the two collectively, are of any more use to the body of man, than sunlight and its beams are for a mass of granite buried in the earth, unless the divine duad is assimilated by, and reflected in consciousness.
Jackal's Gate, you made the claim : "If your God has the ability to think, that means, he has a brain."
What if my God has the ability to think and He is a spirit without a physical brain?
This means my God can think and His thoughts are not limited.
I would have an infinite God who can think infinitely.
Your argument fails at its second point : "If your God has the ability to think, that means, he has a brain."
A brain is not required for the ability to think when it comes to a spirit.
Thus your argument is invalid.
@@EyeToob
If your god is a spirit, and a brain is a material thing: your god cannot think.
You make the claim that your god is spirit and he can think without a brain. So...that would mean your god can also speak in an audible voice and be seen having a material body. Where is your god.?
You claim that your god has all this powerful ability, and yet, he is not seen, not heard, and he does not intervene.
You made up a scenario {my god is spirit and can think} and decided it was true.
Where is the audible voice of your god.? And if you tell me that only you can hear his voice: you're delusional.
To attribute human characteristics to the One True God; is to, rip away the mystery of the One True God. Your belief is an abomination and you rake the mysteries of God over material coals.
The greatest heresy I can think of, is to take the One True God and place it in a box, the way you people do.
@@jackalsgate1146 Jackal's Gate, you made the claim : "If your god is a spirit, and a brain is a material thing: your god cannot think."
Where did you get your knowledge of what a spirit can or cannot do?
You asked, "Where is your god?"
An all powerful God can make Himself invisible if He chooses to be invisible. Just because God is not visible in no way means He doesn't exist.
What if God revealed Himself in history? What if God came down from heaven and became one of us and lived among us? I'm convinced this is exactly what He did. A former atheist homicide detective named James Warner Wallace applied his detective skills to the events that surrounded Jesus and to the historical fallout after Jesus and Wallace concluded that the claims Jesus made about himself being God are true.
No one has had a greater impact on the world than Jesus. This is exactly what we should expect if God came down from heaven and lived among us as one of us.
If you are interested, J. Warner Wallace has written two books that lay out his investigations of Jesus :
Cold Case Christianity
and
Person of Interest
@@EyeToob
You have yet to reply to anything I said in my second comment (above) disregarding it entirely. The only thing I got from you was: "god can do anything he wants".
I've often struggled with predestiny and freewill. God is certainly capable of knowing which way you will choose because time has no bearing.he can look into the past, future and everything in between.
If he couldn't see into the future his salvation would be based on when you make that choice rather than if you've already chosen.
Calvinists vs Armeniasts argument. Both sides hold some valid viewpoints but i tend to believe God knows the future.
I think the question then becomes, are you fated to do something because God knows you will do it, and does that mean you are actually the one committing the act or was everything determined beforehand by God?
@@brandonvonbo9708 the question of devine intervention. Truthfully not everyone needs devine intervention. Many come to God of their own freewill without the need for God to drastically change their lives.
I will admit that there are instances where God does punish those within his flock. Sometimes even before they are in his flock but i think most see evil for what it is.
Most if not all come to God because at some point they understand good and evil. Not because God stepped in and said worship me.
@@dominickefrim3088 tell that to the Calvinists lol
How it's possible God knows future of 700 crore people in this world?? Like who will. Become what... Who will. Chose whom his friend.. It's totaly on our free will... Consously Or unconsously action we commit energy we emit.. We get attracted and directed towards that..
@@pratyush755 so do you believe that God has no idea if you are going to choose heaven or hell till the moment you choose?
I'm more confused than before.
@Sage Can I ask what it is that’s confused you?
@Sage
Would it help if I described "destiny" as a planned end result that is the result of our choices? That is basically how ancient cultures often viewed "destiny."
A destiny was something that the gods of ancient cultures had planned for individuals to do, but they could decide to act towards or against their destinies.
Many mythological stories dealing with prophecies had the individuals choosing to go along with, or try to prevent, their destinies from occurring. These choices of what to do after learning of these prophecies were what caused the prophecies to come true.
Achilles, as another example, was actually given two prophecies. Which one came true was dependent upon whether he chose to go to war or stay home.
Therefore, God predestining us to conform to the image of Christ, as Romans 8 confirms, comes true only when we freely choose to conform. God sets up the path, and we follow it.
@Original O.G. Troll neither.
@@brando3342 The last comment he made is confusing because it sounds like a contradiction. Another thing, it's not true when he said everyone, in a sense, has the opportunity to be in the company of the predestined.
@@sage4293
Well, you would need to take a little time to understand the tenants of Molinism, rest assured there is no inherent contradiction, even though at face value it might seem like there is.
The fact is that God knows who will or will not accept him and these people are those who are the predestined to heaven. The group.
That said, whether or not one freely chooses to be a part of that group is entirely up to them in their lifetime.
God knows who will choose him, but he does not cause them to choose him. He leaves that up to the individual. Knowledge itself is not casual, so God can know this and we can still have libertarian free will to accept or deny him.
Wait. Where is that in the Bible?
Where is what in the Bible?
Predestination is mentioned 4 times in the Bible in 3 separate verses and not once is it referring to salvation.
In each case the passage clearly says “WHO” is being predestinated and “TO WHAT” they are being predestinated to.
In all those passages ask your self “WHO” is being predestined and “WHAT” are they being predestined to?
*Not once is it an unbeliever.*
*Not once is it predestined to salvation.*
BELIEVERS are chosen to be Holy and blameless IN CHRIST, are predestined to be adopted children of God BY JESUS, predestined to be to the praise of His glory and predestined to be conformed to His image
EPHESIANS 1:4 - BELIEVERS chosen to be Holy and Blameless IN CHRIST.
EPHESIANS 1:5 - BELIEVERS
are predestined to be adopted children of God BY JESUS:
EPHESIANS 1:11,12 - BELIEVERS (who first trusted in Christ) are predestined to be the PRAISE OF HIS GLORY:
ROMANS 8:29 - BELIEVERS (those who are in IN CHRIST) are predestined to be CONFORMED TO HIS IMAGE (through sanctification).
@@apilkey Like I said, nowhere in the Bible is there a description of Free Will, and you just proved that we were predestined.
Thank you for proving my point.
@@revelationsix Nowhere in scripture is there a description of freewill?
You reading the qran or the Bible?
And I just proved you wrong not your point.
No one here denies predestination and the fact you think that highlights your ignorance.
I clearly showed you predestination is not about salvation it’s about believers which the video also supports.
@@revelationsix EZRA 7:13
13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their
👉OWN FREEWILL👈 to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.
This passage is crystal clear these men have their own freewill and actually what it SAYS is the exact words “OWN FREEWILL.”
Those which are MINDED OF THEIR OWN FREEWILL to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.
They can FREELY CHOOSE to go up to Jerusalem or not to.
Those who want to can go.
Those who don’t want to aren’t forced to go.
He’s specifically saying whoever is minded of their OWN FREEWILL can go with him.
*******************
How about WILLINGLY IGNORANT?
2 PETER 3:5
5 For this they 👉WILLINGLY👈 are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Ask yourself what’s the clear and simple reading and understanding of this text
They were WILLINGLY ignorant clearly means they had freewill.
********************************************
...According to 1 Corinthians 7:37 he that standeth steadfast in his heart has power over his OWN WILL.
Whose will?
His OWN will.
1 CORINTHIANS 7:37
37 Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his 👉OWN WILL,👈 and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.
********************************************
...According to 1 Corinthians 16:12 Apollos OWN WILL was not to come up with Paul at this time:
Whose will?
His OWN will.
1 CORINTHIANS 16:12
12 As touching our brother Apollos, I greatly desired him to come unto you with the brethren: but 👉HIS WILL👈 was not at all to come at this time; but he will come when he shall have convenient time.
********************************************
2 CORINTHIANS 8:11,12
11 Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a READINESS TO WILL, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.
12 For if there be first a WILLING MIND, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.
********************************************
2 CORINTHIANS 8:17
17 For indeed he accepted the exhortation; but being more forward, of his
👉OWN ACCORD👈 he went unto you.
Q: Whose accord?
A: His OWN accord.
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2 CORINTHIANS 9:7
7 Every man according as he
👉PURPOSETH IN HIS HEART,👈 so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
Oh wait how can someone purpose something in their heart if they have no freewill?
Shouldn’t this then read, “every man according to how GOD has purposed in his heart”?
Ya not that’s NOT what the text says.
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PHILEMON 1:14
14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but 👉WILLINGLY.👈
According to this verse did Paul do this WILLINGLY or not?
Yes or no?
What does the text CLEARLY say?
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...According to 1 Peter 5:2 it’s crystal clear that the Apostle Peter believer in freewill:
1 PETER 5:2
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but 👉WILLINGLY;👈 not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
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...According to John 6:21 the Apostle John under inspiration of the Holy Spirit believed in freewill when he wrote:
JOHN 6:21
21 Then they 👉WILLINGLY👈 received him into the ship: and immediately the ship was at the land whither they went.
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2 CHRONICLES 30:19
19 THAT PREPARETH 👉HIS HEART👈
TO SEEK GOD, the LORD God of his fathers, though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary.
20 AND THE LORD HEARKENED TO HEZEKIAH, and healed the people.
Q: Yes or no... did these people prepare their own hearts to seek God or did God prepare them for them?
What does the text clearly say?
...but wait a minute I thought in your doctrine no one can prepare their hearts to seek the Lord? 🤔
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2 CHRONICLES 27:6
6 So Jotham became mighty, 👉BECAUSE👈
HE PREPARED HIS WAYS BEFORE THE LORD his God.
Q: “WHO” prepared his ways?
Did God prepare his ways?
...OR
Did he prepare his own ways?
What was the REASON?
Because “what”?
Because he prepared his ways.
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...According to Jeremiah 44:16,17 it’s clear the people exercised their own wills to choose to either hearken or not hearken unto the name of the Lord:
JEREMIAH 44:16,17
16 As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the LORD, 👉WE WILL👈
NOT HEARKEN UNTO THEE.
17 BUT 👉WE WILL👈 certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our OWN MOUTH, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.
@@apilkey That's your proof? Really? You're playing word games with the Bible.
Dear brothers, molinist idea of predestination is no where in scripture.
You guys are importing your theology on scripture.
Let scripture control your theology.
I beg to differ. What WLC said can't be more true.
You should put both views to the test as passionately as you are with one view. To claim 1 side is not based on biblical context shows you've never studied predestiny with an unbiased view.
Even if i disagree with something i will study to understand their point of view. That way i can objectively judge its merit. You are dismissing something you don't know anything about.
Whether you agree or not, to claim it has no biblical value is false.
@Spartan 300 that's pretty silly. I can study evil objectively and hold it up and recognize it's evil.
I can understand it without partaking. America has a drug problem and a law enforcement issue with progressives. I can certainly look at the problem without being a drug dealer.
Plus partaking in sin is nowhere in the bible. It does have passages that speak about tolerance and understanding. Testing everything.
So then John 3:16 applies when it states that whosoever believes will have eternal life.
@@MarkNOTW i think the key word there is "believes". It's not enough to simply speak the words or go with the flow.
Many will spend their whole lives going to church and God will say "i never knew you".
I don't get it. Can someone please help explain this in a more simple context?
God is omnipresent. He is outside time. He created time. He sees the beginning and the end, and is literally at the end and the beginning right now. Therefore, look at it like a DVR. God knows the choices people will make in their free will to choose. He then choooses those people who would choose him given a free will to choose
I am not 100% sure, but I think that what he may be getting at is that anyone who freely accepts salvation will have a predestined future, and anyone who does not accept salvation also has a predestined future. But you have to freely accept salvation in order to have a predestined future that is good. If you accept salvation, you will go to heaven, under all circumstances.
And the middle knowledge comes in with it, because God knows how you WOULD react if you were given X choice. So for instance. Let's say that a person lived 5000 years ago, before the time of Jesus, who never knew God or anything. God knows how person X would react if they were given the opportunity to hear about God. So if this person X dies without ever knowing God directly, he/she will be judged based upon the knowledge they had, and how they would have reacted if they had the knowledge.
I think the wrong idea of predestination that many Christians have is that God has chosen a specific person A to go to heaven, and B to not go to heaven, and he has set forth a predestined future for both of them at birth. Which would erase free will.
Predestination is mentioned 4 times in the Bible in 3 separate verses and not once is it referring to salvation.
In each case the passage clearly says “WHO” is being predestinated and “TO WHAT” they are being predestinated to.
In all those passages ask your self “WHO” is being predestined and “WHAT” are they being predestined to?
*Not once is it an unbeliever.*
*Not once is it predestined to salvation.*
BELIEVERS are chosen to be Holy and blameless IN CHRIST, are predestined to be adopted children of God BY JESUS, predestined to be to the praise of His glory and predestined to be conformed to His image
EPHESIANS 1:4 - BELIEVERS chosen to be Holy and Blameless IN CHRIST.
EPHESIANS 1:5 - BELIEVERS
are predestined to be adopted children of God BY JESUS:
EPHESIANS 1:11,12 - BELIEVERS (who first trusted in Christ) are predestined to be the PRAISE OF HIS GLORY:
ROMANS 8:29 - BELIEVERS (those who are in IN CHRIST) are predestined to be CONFORMED TO HIS IMAGE (through sanctification).
@@apilkey Who are you talking to? And no one asked anything about where something is in the Bible.
Islam is true, great, real, actual and best.
“True, great, and real” *CRINGE*, you mean. 👍🏻
Yes, Islam is truly a lie, a great deception, real nonsense, actual fiction, and best at hiding who God is. Congratulations! You believe a lie!
Please don’t feed this troll
Islam came 600 years after Christ. Try again.
@@MrStamperh
Many eastern religions came much before Christianity. Try again.