Thank you for the wonderful video dedicated to Ruth Crawford Seeger. I am sure she did encourage her stepson, Pete Seeger, in his folksinging career, but her two children Peggy and Mike really carried forth their mother's work in the folk song revival. Mike was a member of the New Lost City Ramblers but also had a significant solo career playing an assortment of instruments and singing and also recording many rural singers and musicians. Peggy Seeger is a great singer, songwriter and her banjo playing is most engaging. Mike and Peggy collaborated on a Rounder double LP dedicated to their mother's American Folk Songs for Children. The book and their recordings inspired me as a musician and inspired me as a kindergarten instructor, which I managed with a large dose of guitar playing! Best wishes to you in all your research and programming.
Seeger had principles ! As pure as Webern . The spirit though sounds more natural and open .It 's taken me 40 years to finally hear and have some understanding of what people have recommended to me for so long .. My,my .The 3rd movement should be famous . She's there with Scelsi and varese and a few others. She really is special ! Thanks again! Nothing is better than hearing knowledgable talk about what is really happening in this music . We need more of this pre-concert -perhaps . Though Scherchen said listening was enough the fact Webern and others don't feature often in concert tell us this might not be quite true .I heard about this woman my 2nd year of college ;Blavatsky too was always nearwhenever you read about the goings on in this time. though I went through masses of music at our excellent library . In your late teens you might if you're curious give this and that a few minutes . You mostly care about your own instruments repertoire . So now I'm looking at Hindemith , Milhaud (he taught everyone like Scalero but you never hear either in programmes ),Seeger ,students of Scalero and Schonberg etc . Rarely do the sounds captivate me if I look at the scores I 'm often able to see better what is going on and why and why it is of interest.Boulez is one of the few where you don't maybe know what or why but you lare transfixed immediately !
Very glad to see this analysis, it's actually been a few years since I've even thought about Ruth, so this is a great way to re-enter her material via its nuts and bolts. Great insight as always.
Ruth Crawford Seeger isn't (or shouldn't be) well known as a composer because she's a woman, unlike Clara Schumann, Fanny Mendelssohn or Lili Boulanger for instance, she's well-known for her great output
@@arielorthmann4061 Regardless of her quality of a composer it’s relevant to bring attention to her gender when a) composing at this time was an overwhelmingly male field given that b) specific issues related to her gender inhibited her compositional output, in order to emphasize the significance of her creative achievements
Wow. I don't like commenting BEFORE watching, but this is wonderful. Not long after subscribing to this channel, I found myself thinking, "I wish he'd cover Ruth Crawford Seeger's String Quartet". (That was about when I heard it for the first time.) But I'm not a patron so I couldn't request it or anything. Now here it is! Thanks. It's bound to be enlightening.
Your videos keep getting better. I would love to see a more prominent look at Scriabin's music! The parallels between his philosophy and his tonality are fascinating
Movement 3 sounds like a very early precursor to what I hear in Totalism like with Michael Gordon and Glenn Branca, which is the emphasis on timbre, dynamics, and constant movement. I can also hear sympathetic traits between the usage of dissonant counterpoint in movement 1 and Yasunori Mitsuda's usage of nonfunctional harmony in songs like "Secret of the Forest", though this may just be some shadow of a connection that doesn't actually work (I haven't made the comparison between movement 1 and Mitsuda-san's composition yet).
Thanks, Samuel. Fascinating stuff. I got a collection of RCS’s music back in the 90’s which included her string quartet. Also really enjoyed the song “Rat Riddles” from her Three Songs for Contralto, Oboe, Piano, Percussion, and Orchestral Ostinati. The oboe part in this song is simply amazing. Check it out if you haven’t heard it.
Great analysis! I wonder if you have considered analysing works like "Le Encantadas" by Olga Neuwirth. I've recently heard it in Concert and i Personally really enjoyed it, but i've heard quite different opinions about it from other people (obviously🤷🏻♂️)... the thing with such a work is that you just *have* to listen it in concert, as a digital Version won't Show the way the sound travels through space, which is one of the most important features of the piece
Hi Sam, I'm a singer-songwriter, currently doing a degree in songwriting. I play guitar mostly, but I have chosen to write a string quartet, for an assignment. I have very little knowledge of chamber music at the moment, how would you suggest I approach trying to compose one for the first time? I know its not going to be great at first, but any advice you have that might help I would really appreciate!
Thank you very much for uploading this! But I'm afraid that the reduction score at 13:39 is not right enough. It seems like from bar 25 you've mixed up page3 and page5, so at the bar 25, you actually wrote bar 49 and so on. Still very grateful!
Interesting time to watch this because I was studting Samuel Barber's Piano Sonata and the part-writing made no sense to me. After getting to know the concept of dissonance counterpoint it all made so much sense. I guess he was also influenced by the modern amerians to a degree besides the Romantic and Serial styles
Dear teacher Samuel, first of all I want to congratulate you on your channel a short time ago I saw a video "Atonality explained in 7 minutes" I do not know if you could talk about dodecaphonism and musical serialism, I would like to know if using these terms I am necessarily speaking of contemporary music, please do not know if you could explain what differences exist between them and maybe a bit of history about the origin and use of them or their use in an exemplified way. I also have one more question in contemporary music there is an underlying low pulse that parameters are set metrics when composing musical phrases. I have been listening for some time to the music of teachers like: Brian Ferneyhough, Harrison Birtwistle, Iannis Xenakis, Akira Nishimura and I do not know if it reaches a point where the musical is affected by something more conceptual or perhaps the correct word is abstract. I apologize if maybe my question is poorly formulated I am a native speaker I write from Ecuador I have just turned 26 I am a graphic designer for about 6 years I study violin pitifully my city and my country is still a little distant from the world of contemporary music and in As regards my studies I have not been able to take them on a regular basis so I have not lost the hope of one day becoming music maybe not one like those that are usually seen in Europe and more developed countries with a technical level impeccable, but if I want to try to become someone who can give another reality different with regard to music at least in my city where although it hurts to say it is still the artist in a very low plane. Sorry for the length of the message I wanted to write you by mail, but I did not find your address greetings from Ecuador- Cantón Esmeraldas.
Pete Seeger's mother? I had no idea.. I got the impression somewhere that Pete Seeger came from a well-off family but this story implies that while Ruth did very well from her folk song books they didn't make the Seeger family all that wealthy? Interesting to me that Pete Seeger also published folk songs books and instructional materials and did well from them. And Pete was very left wing himself and believed in a kind of DIY, self-reliant ethic. He believed that people should know how to make their own music and resist mass consumerism. He believed the revolution had to be a bottom up process.
Charles Seeger worked for the American government during the great depression, which helped them to stabilize the family income. They were upper middle class in the 40s and 50s. Pete Seeger was her stepson, not her son.
@@samuel_andreyev The relationship between Ruth and her stepson Pete Seeger was much as a surprise to me as the time I found out that Bill Lee is the father of Spike Lee. Wow I had no idea... Amazing.. And I had never heard of Ruth and her remarkable modernist composing. Oh well, 20th century modernist music is not the first thing I tune into on the radio. I appreciate it just the same even the more spiky stuff like Boulez, Stockhausen, Webern, etc. Thanks Samuel Andreyev for what you do here.
When Pete came to visit. Ruth let her kids stay home from school because being around their half brother was an education. Mike and Peggy went on to have folk careers The Seeger family had deep American roots. There had been money at one time. Charles was an ethnomusicoligist with a government job. Ruth gave piano lessons that helped support the family
Knew nothing about Ruth Crawford Seeger! As much as it might sound misogynistic, I have never enjoyed the music of female composers, either past or current. But RCS intrigues me.
The idea of dissonant counterpoint taking ascendency over consonant couterpoint is silly. Both can exist together in a piece as the musical idea warrants it. It is inherently just rebellious and not a musical decision to think that consonance should resolve into dissonance. That's nihilism of tradition. Tradition is perfectly fine and not to be thrown out. I think that a proper analysis of any so-called "dissonant counterpoint" would show that any music is going to contain concepts of tension and resolution. It's just a basic concept and I don't think even Ruggles could avoid it, even in his harmony.
Thank you for the wonderful video dedicated to Ruth Crawford Seeger. I am sure she did encourage her stepson, Pete Seeger, in his folksinging career, but her two children Peggy and Mike really carried forth their mother's work in the folk song revival. Mike was a member of the New Lost City Ramblers but also had a significant solo career playing an assortment of instruments and singing and also recording many rural singers and musicians. Peggy Seeger is a great singer, songwriter and her banjo playing is most engaging. Mike and Peggy collaborated on a Rounder double LP dedicated to their mother's American Folk Songs for Children. The book and their recordings inspired me as a musician and inspired me as a kindergarten instructor, which I managed with a large dose of guitar playing! Best wishes to you in all your research and programming.
Thank you for this lovely message and the information about Peggy and Mike. I will be listening.
Seeger had principles ! As pure as Webern . The spirit though sounds more natural and open .It 's taken me 40 years to finally hear and have some understanding of what people have recommended to me for so long .. My,my .The 3rd movement should be famous . She's there with Scelsi and varese and a few others. She really is special ! Thanks again! Nothing is better than hearing knowledgable talk about what is really happening in this music . We need more of this pre-concert -perhaps . Though Scherchen said listening was enough the fact Webern and others don't feature often in concert tell us this might not be quite true .I heard about this woman my 2nd year of college ;Blavatsky too was always nearwhenever you read about the goings on in this time. though I went through masses of music at our excellent library . In your late teens you might if you're curious give this and that a few minutes . You mostly care about your own instruments repertoire . So now I'm looking at Hindemith , Milhaud (he taught everyone like Scalero but you never hear either in programmes ),Seeger ,students of Scalero and Schonberg etc . Rarely do the sounds captivate me if I look at the scores I 'm often able to see better what is going on and why and why it is of interest.Boulez is one of the few where you don't maybe know what or why but you lare transfixed immediately !
Your videos are fascinating. Shining light on music I never knew existed. Thank you!
This quartet was a defining influence on Elliott Carter's First string quartet.
Very glad to see this analysis, it's actually been a few years since I've even thought about Ruth, so this is a great way to re-enter her material via its nuts and bolts. Great insight as always.
Thank you for the way you discuss not only the music but the life of the composer and how it influences their output.
It so great to see someone providing thoughtful analysis on this music. Really enjoying all your videos, PLEASE keep making them!
Thank you for covering more women composers :D
yes, this.
Ruth Crawford Seeger isn't (or shouldn't be) well known as a composer because she's a woman, unlike Clara Schumann, Fanny Mendelssohn or Lili Boulanger for instance, she's well-known for her great output
@@arielorthmann4061 Regardless of her quality of a composer it’s relevant to bring attention to her gender when a) composing at this time was an overwhelmingly male field given that b) specific issues related to her gender inhibited her compositional output, in order to emphasize the significance of her creative achievements
A great introduction to another great American composer! Thanks as always.
i've been searching for a concise presentation of this kind of counterpoint a a few years; thanks for covering this.
I thought Samuel's cheeky and knowing smile throughout the analysis was an extremely amusing addition to the intellectual content.
@OpenMusic I noticed that too but I don't understand. What does he know that we don't?
Thank you so much for covering such an underrated composer and bringing more light to dissonant counterpoint.
Thank you for this, fascinating music and theory and what an interesting life story!
Very helpful and informative. Thank you
Wow. I don't like commenting BEFORE watching, but this is wonderful. Not long after subscribing to this channel, I found myself thinking, "I wish he'd cover Ruth Crawford Seeger's String Quartet". (That was about when I heard it for the first time.) But I'm not a patron so I couldn't request it or anything. Now here it is! Thanks. It's bound to be enlightening.
Love your videos Samuel, especially the two videos on Weberns works with guitar. Would you consider doing a video on Oliver Messiaen?
Yes -- I am planning a video on the piano preludes. Thanks for your comments.
Your videos keep getting better. I would love to see a more prominent look at Scriabin's music! The parallels between his philosophy and his tonality are fascinating
Thanks! I'm already working on a Scriabin video.
I love your style of videos.
It's really great stuff.
great video
FANTASTIC!
Very eye~opening !
Great video! I would love a video on Samuel Barber's Violin Concerto.
Why that particular piece?
After watching the entire video, I must say this was one of your best so far. It is obvious that you're a big admirer of Seeger!
@@Pretzels722 I am indeed. She is a major figure.
Love your style of video - I'd love to hear your thoughts on 20th century American serialists (Roger Sessions, Ross Lee Finney)!
That would be an interesting topic. I'd like to look at Babbitt and Wuorinen also. Thanks for the suggestion.
thank you
Will you do something on Takemitsu? :)
Eyyy Ruth Crawford Seeger, let's get some discordant harmonic analysis up in here.
Movement 3 sounds like a very early precursor to what I hear in Totalism like with Michael Gordon and Glenn Branca, which is the emphasis on timbre, dynamics, and constant movement. I can also hear sympathetic traits between the usage of dissonant counterpoint in movement 1 and Yasunori Mitsuda's usage of nonfunctional harmony in songs like "Secret of the Forest", though this may just be some shadow of a connection that doesn't actually work (I haven't made the comparison between movement 1 and Mitsuda-san's composition yet).
Thanks, Samuel. Fascinating stuff. I got a collection of RCS’s music back in the 90’s which included her string quartet. Also really enjoyed the song “Rat Riddles” from her Three Songs for Contralto, Oboe, Piano, Percussion, and Orchestral Ostinati. The oboe part in this song is simply amazing. Check it out if you haven’t heard it.
I have heard it and I think it's a great piece.
Excellent
Jesus, that jump scare though!
Great analysis! I wonder if you have considered analysing works like "Le Encantadas" by Olga Neuwirth. I've recently heard it in Concert and i Personally really enjoyed it, but i've heard quite different opinions about it from other people (obviously🤷🏻♂️)... the thing with such a work is that you just *have* to listen it in concert, as a digital Version won't Show the way the sound travels through space, which is one of the most important features of the piece
I like Olga Neuwirth's music very much, although I'm afraid I don't know that particular work. Thanks for the note.
Hi Sam, I'm a singer-songwriter, currently doing a degree in songwriting. I play guitar mostly, but I have chosen to write a string quartet, for an assignment. I have very little knowledge of chamber music at the moment, how would you suggest I approach trying to compose one for the first time? I know its not going to be great at first, but any advice you have that might help I would really appreciate!
Thank you very much for uploading this! But I'm afraid that the reduction score at 13:39 is not right enough. It seems like from bar 25 you've mixed up page3 and page5, so at the bar 25, you actually wrote bar 49 and so on. Still very grateful!
Is there a typo in the Cello in the first bar of the score ? It doesn't display the bécarre on the second G, contrary to what is playing ?
Interesting time to watch this because I was studting Samuel Barber's Piano Sonata and the part-writing made no sense to me. After getting to know the concept of dissonance counterpoint it all made so much sense. I guess he was also influenced by the modern amerians to a degree besides the Romantic and Serial styles
Dear teacher Samuel, first of all I want to congratulate you on your channel a short time ago I saw a video "Atonality explained in 7 minutes" I do not know if you could talk about dodecaphonism and musical serialism, I would like to know if using these terms I am necessarily speaking of contemporary music, please do not know if you could explain what differences exist between them and maybe a bit of history about the origin and use of them or their use in an exemplified way. I also have one more question in contemporary music there is an underlying low pulse that parameters are set metrics when composing musical phrases. I have been listening for some time to the music of teachers like: Brian Ferneyhough, Harrison Birtwistle, Iannis Xenakis, Akira Nishimura and I do not know if it reaches a point where the musical is affected by something more conceptual or perhaps the correct word is abstract. I apologize if maybe my question is poorly formulated I am a native speaker I write from Ecuador I have just turned 26 I am a graphic designer for about 6 years I study violin pitifully my city and my country is still a little distant from the world of contemporary music and in As regards my studies I have not been able to take them on a regular basis so I have not lost the hope of one day becoming music maybe not one like those that are usually seen in Europe and more developed countries with a technical level impeccable, but if I want to try to become someone who can give another reality different with regard to music at least in my city where although it hurts to say it is still the artist in a very low plane. Sorry for the length of the message I wanted to write you by mail, but I did not find your address greetings from Ecuador- Cantón Esmeraldas.
Good question, I'll see if I can address it in a q&a video.
@@samuel_andreyev Thanks, teacher.
@@samuel_andreyev Thanks, teacher.
Pete Seeger's mother? I had no idea.. I got the impression somewhere that Pete Seeger came from a well-off family but this story implies that while Ruth did very well from her folk song books they didn't make the Seeger family all that wealthy? Interesting to me that Pete Seeger also published folk songs books and instructional materials and did well from them. And Pete was very left wing himself and believed in a kind of DIY, self-reliant ethic. He believed that people should know how to make their own music and resist mass consumerism. He believed the revolution had to be a bottom up process.
Charles Seeger worked for the American government during the great depression, which helped them to stabilize the family income. They were upper middle class in the 40s and 50s. Pete Seeger was her stepson, not her son.
@@samuel_andreyev The relationship between Ruth and her stepson Pete Seeger was much as a surprise to me as the time I found out that Bill Lee is the father of Spike Lee. Wow I had no idea... Amazing.. And I had never heard of Ruth and her remarkable modernist composing. Oh well, 20th century modernist music is not the first thing I tune into on the radio. I appreciate it just the same even the more spiky stuff like Boulez, Stockhausen, Webern, etc. Thanks Samuel Andreyev for what you do here.
When Pete came to visit. Ruth let her kids stay home from school because being around their half brother was an education. Mike and Peggy went on to have folk careers
The Seeger family had deep American roots. There had been money at one time. Charles was an ethnomusicoligist with a government job. Ruth gave piano lessons that helped support the family
Ruth Crawfordstep mom yt
to music
Makes me think everything I struggle with has already been completely mapped. Glad I'm just a jazz musician/composer.
Knew nothing about Ruth Crawford Seeger! As much as it might sound misogynistic, I have never enjoyed the music of female composers, either past or current. But RCS intrigues me.
It definitely is misogynistic
The idea of dissonant counterpoint taking ascendency over consonant couterpoint is silly. Both can exist together in a piece as the musical idea warrants it. It is inherently just rebellious and not a musical decision to think that consonance should resolve into dissonance. That's nihilism of tradition. Tradition is perfectly fine and not to be thrown out. I think that a proper analysis of any so-called "dissonant counterpoint" would show that any music is going to contain concepts of tension and resolution. It's just a basic concept and I don't think even Ruggles could avoid it, even in his harmony.
You're jewish, right?
Anon
What the fuck is that supposed to mean?
Happy Passover
Who fu****g cares ??