Be aware that MS processing can lead to mono-incompatibility! You should always check the resulting LR signal visually on a stereo scope or correlation meter or at least hit the mono button on your monitoring system from time to time while creating MS effects! Every horizontal component in the stereo scope's visualization (=oscillation in the S channel) will result in more or less cancellation. A lot of impressive effects shown in the video cancel out entirely when listened back in mono! In Germany, most big radio stations will not air tracks that are not mono-compatible (= correlation meter is at least equal or above 0).
How would one souve this issue while retaining the M-S processing? Phase cancellation issues is a bottle I have yet to really open, so any info would be appreciated! Any extra phasing hassles/issues when using Quadrophonic M-S processing compared to single-track or Master M-S?
I've only just recently been starting to think about spatialization more seriously, and up until now I've been at a bit of a loss as to what I could do besides modulate the panning of sounds. This is kind of one of those "instant buy" modules, I think. Great demos as always!
Cheers for pointing me towards this one, I’d been looking at an expensive rack unit to do this kind of thing, you’ve quite possibly saved me a bundle.👍 I have a ton of mono guitar pedals sat around so my mind is racing with ideas. Or perhaps it’s just spinning cos you made me wear headphones 😂
I know some time ago Morgan from WORNG mentioned that this is good to work with line level directly (i.e. no interface modules for line-euro and back) so you might get some good results with the outboard/pedal stuff directly. Hope it works out.
There used to be another comment with somebody peddling a link to a dating site. It has been removed, leaving all the other comments out of contexts like fish on dry land.
Thanks for that tip, I've ordered one just now. This seems like it will be a great utility module , even in my small setup. Mono is the way it should sound nice, stereo is the cream on the coffee. Who doesn't like cream?
Don't mono sum me bro! Kidding aside I have loved this module for months now. I call M-S processing the 4th dimension of sound. Red panel crew where you at?
This is a very interesting idea (which could have been taken much further in terms of CV-ins and modulation). I see something like a three-dimensional (the volume is one dimension, the phase is maybe another dimension) Joranaloge Morph4 in my head when I look at this module. Great video!
There's now the MidSide+ from WORNG which has CV modulation of width. Combining things like that with the Soundstage they make can lead to some amazing 3D spaces to mix in.
@@DivKid I always try to CAREFULLY chose a module. There is Midside+ and there are at least 4 other MidSide modules right now. JoRa has one too. And I love the JoRa look and philosophy.
This module works great with vinyl! If you have a line-in module to receive stereo signal from a turntable, you can patch it to the left/right and use the sides to isolate instruments or mid for vocals/bass/drums! I've been using it with my Erica Synths Sample Drum to get instrumental samples from old song with vocals straight in the middle!
Ben whats making the sound at 22.22 please? Is it a wavetable oscillator by any chance? If so which one please and what setting is it set to? I really like that sound!
haha! Well Launa wasn't in or screaming at that moment so definitely not that in this video. Only time you'll ever hear her scream would be underneath me talking. I cut out all silence/gaps between voice on the vocal track. But I'll stop and re-say things if I do hear her while I'm recording.
Thanks for the great run down. I love this module. I always thought it was kinda hard or expensive to get a nice stereo image with eurorack, and then I tried the LRMSMSLR and it just magicaly works. I use mostly at the end of the chain with fx or filter (slowly modulated) processing the mid or the sides. Makes awesome natural sounding stereo stuff. Here is an example: th-cam.com/video/KjaBVv-XM7o/w-d-xo.html
The only problem is that, because the L & R components of the Side channel are 180 degrees out of phase, when you listen to any of the examples of the processed Side signal in mono (great though they sound in stereo), they disappear, as they cancel each other out. In a world where, as nowadays it seems, many people are listening on mono playback systems, e.g. Sonos, Amazon Alexa devices, etc., you have to take account of mono compatibility, otherwise your work will never be heard the way you intended.
it's only out of phase is you listen to the left and right outputs and just use the side signal, deliberately turning down the mid signal. So in 90%+ of use you're totally fine. But Mick is right that where I just show the side example and just show the side signal if your system is mono you won't hear anything.
I can't remember as you guessed. Sounds like the sort of thing I was doing with the v1 of N.I Massive many years back. Wavetables, with FM/RM, filtering, distortion, noise blend/modulation. Definitely plenty going on and not just a single module sort of thing.
Finally getting the audience this crafty module deserves, deadly potential :)
Yeah really cool bit of kit.
Be aware that MS processing can lead to mono-incompatibility! You should always check the resulting LR signal visually on a stereo scope or correlation meter or at least hit the mono button on your monitoring system from time to time while creating MS effects! Every horizontal component in the stereo scope's visualization (=oscillation in the S channel) will result in more or less cancellation. A lot of impressive effects shown in the video cancel out entirely when listened back in mono! In Germany, most big radio stations will not air tracks that are not mono-compatible (= correlation meter is at least equal or above 0).
All effects applied only to the side signal will disappear in mono. All the rest of the patches are good in mono.
How would one souve this issue while retaining the M-S processing? Phase cancellation issues is a bottle I have yet to really open, so any info would be appreciated!
Any extra phasing hassles/issues when using Quadrophonic M-S processing compared to single-track or Master M-S?
I want all the modules WORNG makes. Not too pricy either. But these are some delicious, yet practical, stereo sounds.
I've only just recently been starting to think about spatialization more seriously, and up until now I've been at a bit of a loss as to what I could do besides modulate the panning of sounds. This is kind of one of those "instant buy" modules, I think. Great demos as always!
Cheers mate and yeah it's definitely a no brainer for create width/space/stereo image out of things.
Woah, this is amazing! Didn't know you can make mono effects sound great in stereo that easily.
Yeah I think it will have slipped by a lot of people.
Brilliant module, brilliantly explained
nice one Will.
Reminded me I have a kit for this in a pile somewhere - cheap from Thonk. I hadn't thought of half these ideas. Very cool.
Nice one Josh, I know Thonk have (or had) these. Get it to the top of the "to build" pile.
Cheers for pointing me towards this one, I’d been looking at an expensive rack unit to do this kind of thing, you’ve quite possibly saved me a bundle.👍 I have a ton of mono guitar pedals sat around so my mind is racing with ideas.
Or perhaps it’s just spinning cos you made me wear headphones 😂
I know some time ago Morgan from WORNG mentioned that this is good to work with line level directly (i.e. no interface modules for line-euro and back) so you might get some good results with the outboard/pedal stuff directly.
Hope it works out.
oooooooh! Mid-side in Euro! I dig it. Highly underrated way to record and process sound.
absolutely.
Anonymous sex dating? How can I lose?!
Worng part of the internet - this is modular synth country. No one is interested.
I've no idea what's going on.
There used to be another comment with somebody peddling a link to a dating site. It has been removed, leaving all the other comments out of contexts like fish on dry land.
It's a super video, you explained it really good. Thumbs up, Ben. It's listed as full DIY kit now at Exploding Shed by the way.
Cheers Manu and glad to see it in stock at Exploding Shed! :)
Thanks for that tip, I've ordered one just now.
This seems like it will be a great utility module , even in my small setup.
Mono is the way it should sound nice, stereo is the cream on the coffee. Who doesn't like cream?
Don't mono sum me bro! Kidding aside I have loved this module for months now. I call M-S processing the 4th dimension of sound. Red panel crew where you at?
I bought a red panelled one too! Felt like I needed a pair around the various cases. "Don't mono sum me bro" hahaha.
This looks like the module that could revolutionise my thinking, music and rack (and it's only 4hp!).
O.o My 7.1 home theater system really makes the output swish around like it's been caught in a storm. Nice!
oh nice!
Really good work on this video. I just got this module. Thanks.
cheers
Great demo, as always!
Cheers Scott.
This is a very interesting idea (which could have been taken much further in terms of CV-ins and modulation). I see something like a three-dimensional (the volume is one dimension, the phase is maybe another dimension) Joranaloge Morph4 in my head when I look at this module.
Great video!
There's now the MidSide+ from WORNG which has CV modulation of width. Combining things like that with the Soundstage they make can lead to some amazing 3D spaces to mix in.
@@DivKid I always try to CAREFULLY chose a module. There is Midside+ and there are at least 4 other MidSide modules right now. JoRa has one too. And I love the JoRa look and philosophy.
I haven't tried the Joranalogue Enhance 2 but I like Joranaloue too.
Hey Ben! was wondering: could you do part of this with a Maths with the or and sum outputs? btw. great demo as always :-)
This module works great with vinyl! If you have a line-in module to receive stereo signal from a turntable, you can patch it to the left/right and use the sides to isolate instruments or mid for vocals/bass/drums! I've been using it with my Erica Synths Sample Drum to get instrumental samples from old song with vocals straight in the middle!
now THAT is flipping awesome,mate!
i never understood the setups, now I have big ideas :)
This thing is incredible, got to get one, you should put a wealth warning on your vids!
haha
Ben whats making the sound at 22.22 please? Is it a wavetable oscillator by any chance? If so which one please and what setting is it set to? I really like that sound!
A magician never reveals his secrets ... good job I don't do magic ey! :) That's Braids in the WTx4 mode.
Knew I should have kept hold of the braids! Cheers Ben - you're a wizard to the community never mind a magician! :-)
haha wizard! :)
Very interested in what the Vector Space module does!
It takes CVs and spaces them around a sphere / cube and creates a load of related CVs. I'll be working on that video soon.
very nice! wondering here if the m/s inputs would sound nice using the out / aux outputs of plaits. have you tried it, ben?
Hi Matheus, I haven't tried that to be honest but I bet it could be interesting.
There is some phase distortion in the background.....oh no wait, must be a baby screaming ˆˆ
haha! Well Launa wasn't in or screaming at that moment so definitely not that in this video. Only time you'll ever hear her scream would be underneath me talking. I cut out all silence/gaps between voice on the vocal track. But I'll stop and re-say things if I do hear her while I'm recording.
Any issues with powering the metasonix on your rack?
hi Ben, I was wondering would it sound good if this module will be set after the master output?
Found you!
Seems like it would work amazing with the Morph Phase mode on E352...
Yeah that would do some interesting things definitely.
That piano sounds real sweat
cheers, had fun making up that.
Thanks for the great run down. I love this module. I always thought it was kinda hard or expensive to get a nice stereo image with eurorack, and then I tried the LRMSMSLR and it just magicaly works. I use mostly at the end of the chain with fx or filter (slowly modulated) processing the mid or the sides. Makes awesome natural sounding stereo stuff. Here is an example: th-cam.com/video/KjaBVv-XM7o/w-d-xo.html
Definitely a nice width to the piece. I've subscribed.
The only problem is that, because the L & R components of the Side channel are 180 degrees out of phase, when you listen to any of the examples of the processed Side signal in mono (great though they sound in stereo), they disappear, as they cancel each other out. In a world where, as nowadays it seems, many people are listening on mono playback systems, e.g. Sonos, Amazon Alexa devices, etc., you have to take account of mono compatibility, otherwise your work will never be heard the way you intended.
Mick Glossop - if you postprocess the stereo file in some way though, is this going to break the out of phase bit?
it's only out of phase is you listen to the left and right outputs and just use the side signal, deliberately turning down the mid signal. So in 90%+ of use you're totally fine. But Mick is right that where I just show the side example and just show the side signal if your system is mono you won't hear anything.
DivKidVideo Thanks Ben - mine arrived this morning, so will try it out later.
I think they are going to sell a shit ton of these ... pinky promise .
Pinky Promise haha! Glad someone noticed that.
Just Add Kick™
We all need more kick!
F*@k. I'm deaf on my right side.
L MSMSL ?
@@DivKid I guess so.
probably impossible to remember but what is the sound source at 18:30?
I can't remember as you guessed. Sounds like the sort of thing I was doing with the v1 of N.I Massive many years back. Wavetables, with FM/RM, filtering, distortion, noise blend/modulation. Definitely plenty going on and not just a single module sort of thing.
@@DivKid Right. It does sound like massive. Appreciate the answer :)