That's basically why I left my job too. I worked as a gameplay programmer for 12 years in a game studio which has been bought by Activision, so I worked for Activision for 10 years there. I started in a team of 2 gameplay programmer, then 10, then 40, then 200 hundreds. I was used to make mostly everything, the playable character, the camera, the AI, the animation programming, at the end I was working on Call of Duty with 9 other studios spread around the world in a team of hundred of programmers, not even making gameplay anymore. That was my cue to go indie and go back to making pretty much everything. My last game at Activision was Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare, one of the worse received CoD, but I didnt care, at all, I had such a low impact on the game, that if it was bad, I couldn't feel responsible and most importantly, if it was good, I couldn't either. Making games as always been my passion, having 0 creative impact on a creative media is taking away your soul.
@Naman Divgi Through those years I released 9 console games on PS2, PS3, PS4, Xbox 360, Xbox One, Wii, WiiU, 3DS and PC. As you can see my nickname is "random" so I can stay anonymous, so I wont go in more details on identifying who I am. I was a senior gameplay programmer at an Activision own studio.
EA the same guys that hired a mod team to make BF2 and fired them all just weeks before the launch, never has a battlefield game been even close to the quality of BF2
It was probably stipulated in the contract and the mod team probably knew that it might have been a one time thing. Companies can't just fire people whenever they want to😂
Astro depending on where they are they can, in Texas any company can fire anyone for any reason at any time, unless there are other contracts going on that have clauses changing that fact
DICE didn't develop BF2? No other battlefield title being even close to the quality of BF2 is subjective. BF2 had plenty of glitches and bugs and unpolished aspects.
"so many things I want to learn, so many things I want to build" I know exactly what you mean. There isn't enough time in the day, I'm in my 50s and for some reason time speeds up as you get older. That's why I really like your programming channel. Learning C++ from scratch, the videos are very clear, very detailed and very efficient. Thank you The Cherno!
@@versystudio822 same here, the effect is what I call 'time compression'. Time becomes 'compressed' as the years wear on. When we were children, a Summer seemed to last forever because the duration of a Summer was a greater percentage of our lifetime. Now a Summer seems to last perhaps a month and a half relatively speaking in my mind.
I had a very similar experience with EA, I also got my first job out of college with EA and listening to this really touched a note. Same feelings about not understanding how systems worked together, same feelings about wanting to touch different things from time to time, same feelings about burn-out. 10 years, 4 companies, 6 languages, 3 engines, and 19 projects later, I'm interviewing with EA to return as a senior engineer. Honestly I feel so much more prepared and in a better head space for it. Maybe you will too some day :)
Hi,my name is Gideon and I'm upcoming software engineer but I recently lost access to my laptop and do not have any funds to get a new one ,please if you can help me with one I would be very grateful, thank you very much
Here's some life advice, everyone at all stages of their life, at every age, feels like they're a fraud at what they do. Like they've somehow gamed the system into getting this job that they don't belong in. Never think you're not good enough, everyone else is just an average adult too probably feeling the same thing too. It's only through teamwork, a bunch of average people working together, that we can build great things. Never say "I was too young, I didn't know enough".
He had a lot of points, a lot of good reasons for leaving, so I don’t think I missed his point. I was just speaking to one small point. His quest for knowledge is admirable, but I believe a more honest assessment would be it wasn’t the right job for him. He has no passion for working in a large team on a small piece of a much larger technology, at least he worked that out now than in 10 years time.
Thanks for the insights and honesty. This hits me on a very personal level, as I've been in this situation twice and both were quite difficult decisions to say goodbye, but I knew it was time. Neither was a sudden decision, I thought about them for months before I actually did it. To anyone else in this situation: you need to leave your job. Maybe not today, maybe not next week, but you need to start pulling together a plan to bring your life back to a happy place, whatever that means for you. It's extremely important for your mental health, for your career health, for motivation, for relationships, etc. Don't quit today, but start making a plan today.
I didnt leave my job at EA as a software engineer, my one year contract expired and we parted ways. Thing is, I didn't fight to stay. I was miserable at the thought of leaving but I was miserable doing the work itself. I felt like such a number, just another cog in the machine, and the tasks felt uncomfortably unimportant. I wasn't allowed to work on anything game related outside of the company, wasn't even allowed to talk about anything game or game industry related with anybody, couldn't participate in game jams, and due to the unique nature of my job I also wasn't allowed to build websites for public consumption. The job stripped what made me.. me.. when around non EA people, it felt like I was in a prison. A very sexy looking prison, I REALLY LOVED the campus and my environment and how well the company itself took care of me... but I was miserable otherwise. I had just gotten married when I got that job, and my first child was ready to be born any minute. And while my very pregnant wife was at home alone all day, sometimes she'd be alone at night too as I'd be working super late because someone had a real desire to get me to finish yet another batch of unit tests before I go home. I've been working as a web engineer at a different company for the following 7 years and I've been much happier, while I pursue indie dev efforts at home, and still get to hang out with my wife and children. Work life balance is important. I gave up, effectively, trying to make doing youtube a thing, I just don't have the energy for it among everything else so I took the opposite approach, though I still like to occasionally pretend I can lol
This was a trippy experience of listening to my own thoughts come out of a different person's mouth. Thank you for sharing this and I can't wait for the next story time with The Cherno :)
Bisqwit is like an insane Einstein. Javid is sensible and calm. Like a hairy James Bond. Cherno is like your chilled out mate who drinks all your coffee :-)
You're Amazing! That was a nice story and I personally get the feeling of learning on your own and the fun/difficult challenges it provides no matter what we are doing
Thank you so much for making this video. I've been interested in getting work in some form of software development and was watching your videos to see your experience and learn from it. Something clicked for me when you were talking about the aircraft analogy that makes my path forward somewhat more clear. Thanks for being you and keep doing what your doing. :)
That’s how I came upon Cherno’s channel. His PS4 react videos were really cool to watch coming from someone who knows the technology. I’m now a subscriber. I like his vids
Thanks for sharing this experience and being so open about it. Presenting it unscripted gave the message a greater level of depth. I am currently in a similar situation in which I would like to have much more insights in lots of different areas - it helps to see someone else go through it, too.
I'd love to hear more about your time at university. Was it how you expected it to be? Did you attend any hackathons/competitive programming competitions? Which units did you specify in? Love the videos :)
I can 100% empathize with this. I also work in a big software/hardware engineering company on a small part of some cutting edge tech and I also don't understand how the aeroplane works. It's frustrating and tedious. Imposter syndrome is real.
Also Melbourne based. But I have an electronics/communications degree so I think that makes the imposter syndrome (working in a software role) even worse.
This work thing becomes complex when you have passion for one thing and what you work is different....and to pursue one's passion they have to sacrifice their personal time and chase it. Too damn difficult....but still hanging in there..
I am in a similar, maybe a bit riskier situation right now and making such hard choices with everything that happened recently is, ugh, a challenge. However nothing can beat the rush and pure satisfaction of doing things on your terms and working diligently to grab onto your dreams and bring them into the reality. I'm glad I discovered your yt challenge this morning and I'm even happier that you made this video. Thanks!
This was an awesome video. Thanks for sharing so much, you're really making this channel a personal place. It's hard to describe how amazing it's been to get exposed to the topics you have been teaching here, and also the way that you've chosen to. Thanks again. You mentioned that you did some work on workflow/pipeline stuff. If you ever get burnt out with any of your series, I think there could be a lot of value in having a pipeline series from you. Even just a short series covering each tool(whichever you think single coders or small teams could use) and how they tie together. It's not just good practice and can take a lot of manual tasks off your plate, but letting new coders see and use a half decent pipeline will help them get comfortable with tools they'll have to use if they start working on larger projects (for work or open source, whatever). Take care of yourself brother. I hope everyone is doing well.
I've gone through a very similar process in my career. First I worked for a big company in a huge and old project and felt like I just don't belong there -- at least not yet. I switched to a smaller company where I get to build software from scratch, designing the architecture, choosing libraries for the implementation, its devops pipeline and everything in it. I think it has been an extremely nurturing experience for not only my software development skills but also higher self-esteem and confidence that comes along when you feel like you understand a lot more about the practicalities of software engineering from a more holistic point of view.
One of the best videos I have seen in your channel, I wish you the best of lucks! and keep on following your dreams and whatever makes you happiest bro
Thanks for sharing your story, I fully understand the motives behind that step. Learning and advancing oneself (personal self growth) is super important imo.
I've been working for a multi national company since graduation and know exactly what you mean. Good pay but little personal growth. It's been over 6 years now and am planning to quit for same reason
Thank you for sharing this, I thought there was something wrong with me not wanting to be tied to being in an office or fulltime working for a company. I just can't do it and wish I could do something else other than stay in front of a computer working on one thing, a specific thing. I do love software development, I just wanted to do something else at the same time.. I quit my job and started freelancing, learning anything I'd like to learn
Loved the video so much, being younger than you and having achieved nowhere near you in life, I have the same goals and thinking as you too regarding this. Very relatable. Love all your videos and your personality and approach to life. Thanks a lot for everything you provide :)
I would love to see you start your own studio at some point in life.....and if you do....I bet I'll be one of the first applicants lol......Keep chasing your dreams......LOVING YOUR WORK YAN❤️
Thank you for making videos for "non-programmers" since I am one of them! I like you as a character and presenter and interested in understanding the "world of software engineering". So please make more videos like these ("life of a software developer".."understanding new technologies / PS5/ etc")
I want the feel of looking things from perspective of a non programmer unfortunately I can't see... cause I am programer. Cherno is Lord for us programmer like us.
Really inspiring Cherno. I have always been into buildibg tools by myself and be in total control so I share your view and completely understand and respect your decision.
I ended up contracting and every contract was a new mind blowing mental exercise. One contract had 130 thousand classes which I had to fault find! Its mind blowingly hard. The most mentally difficult job there is. Makes you super intelligent but burns you out too. 3 months max on full power. Used to make me super cross and irritable, which I noticed in other "angry" programmers. BRAIN PAIN.
@Felipe Gomes He could. But that would take time. Would it take more time or less than finding problem by himself - that's a big question. So it isn't always a good idea to automate EVERYTHING you do :-)
I totally get this. I worked for many AAA game studios over 20 years, eventually working as contract from home. Now Im doing tech videos about the industry on youtube. Loved doing the video game work, but I feel I have more to offer at this point in my life to help others, Cheers 😄👍🏻
Can completely understand your thoughts. Do what you like to do, learn as much as possible as you can and what you want. Some day that will all make sense to you when you look back. I am 9 years older than you and I still have the same feeling that I want to do and learn so much stuff. So no worries, you're on the right track.
Same feeling I had in my early 30s, I also quit my job for similar reasons and decided to spend some years working on my personal projects. Life is short, so spend your time doing what you like to do. You made a good decision.
Same situation, I code non stop in my spare time, I work at a AAA game company and I can't seem to find an out. All I want is to work on my projects or small projects with others and have tried multiple avenues and never seem to make it, its a hard market to break into. I even moved from Australia for this job only to be here now feeling unfulfilled. After coding all day at work it is difficult to keep it up after work and after the past 8 years of doing that, its getting harder to keep up.
@@igorthelight I expected this nightmare with cpp. I'm thinking of taking up python as my main, but definitely keep experimenting with cpp. There are pros out there who say that just like with arithmetic, you can do quite alot with just the very basics of cpp. When you think about it, it all started with 1s and 0s. Hopefully, this hype with the virus will die down soon so I can register for classes.
I'm glad you've made this. I think your analogy explains it very well. I'm in a situation where I've been thrown into one part of a whole system before even getting a chance to know the rest of it. It's given me something to think about
I understand you 100% regarding the dilemma contributing to the state of the arts versus having your own project and understanding every thing. Thanks for the video, usually I find private stuff boring, but this one is really insightful
As a student of computer engineering, I believe I will have a similar problem.. When I work on my school projects with a team, I just want to understand how everything works, if I focus on one specific task I want to know what the other stuff does.
DJGuu [Disclaimer: This is my opinion] This is a pretty common trait among high performers. I find i work best with people that are driven to realise their vision, and add their own unique value. I think it means ur more susceptible to getting frustrated in a role for various reasons. But don’t think of this as a bad thing. Go with it. Take the role. Learn the ropes and try to follow what feels important and satisfying for u. It might not take u very long to understand more about yourself and what u want, and u might feel that its time to move on and do ur own thing.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. This whole discussion is exactly why my first job out of college it was super important to me to have the "Software Systems Engineer" job title. Some people want to stay at that level for the duration of their career and some people decide to dive into a specific technical area as things progress. This is all just personal preference.
I was about your age when I did the same.. I just felt like, in order to grow my carier, every other aspect of my life has to pay the price, so I decided to quite and start working on my own thing! Even though I still didn't make any supstantial income, I'm absolutely sure I made the right decision, because of all other things I can focus on now (I drastically improved my diet, my health, I train regularly, and I code exactly the things I like, and WHENEVER I like)! :)
I wish I would be at your level of confidence to say that I will decide when I will quit or start a job. That's a nice feeling. Way to go Cherno !!! Respect
Thanks Cherno, have you ever considered a smaller(not tiny) game studio? You'll probably get to work end-to-end on the whole game, possibly even hardware infrastructure, development of the game, distribution of the game application - if you want.
Very similar experiences I've had working as a lawyer (in Melbourne no less - hey!). In any technical field it seems like there's always going to be a tension between understanding one thing really really well and having a good sense of how everything works generally. Cool videos.
Knowing what I know now, and if I was 30 years younger, I'd love to do what you do. I've just started to learn C++ to work on microcontrollers and LEDs for work (which is how your videos started popping up on my feed). Your videos fascinate me, but I'm not yet at a level to completely understand them, especially at the speed you go. But one day I hope to widen my programming knowledge, inspired by you, even at my advanced age. Thanks, and keep up the great work.
You really should learn c for that type of work... c++ is unsuited in many ways. Huge binaries, bad support relative to c and c++ constructs just aren’t needed.
@@32gigs96 While C and assembly are the definitely industry standard for embedded, C++ is being used more and more for microcontrollers as they are getting more complex, faster and have more memory.
It's never too late, Tom. If you need to be convinced that 40, 50, and 60 is "young", just watch 20 minutes of any Gary Vee video. That guy is a machine of motivational truths.
C and C++ aren't even separate languages practically speaking, most C programs can be compiled by a C++ compiler just fine. Arduino is a classic example, it is indeed a slightly bastardised variant of C++, but most of the "constructs" used in a typical Arduino program are pure C. So I find it really strange when folks make these "C vs C++" arguments... I'd say something more like "yeah, C/C++ is all fine, whatever. But just don't be using new or malloc() unless you really think it through." The issue is which features you use and what the compiler is doing behind your back to give you those features, not the language itself.
Love your videos man. Seems you're on the right path. I understand the conflict of enjoying what you do, but not having the time to pursue your own interests.
Best wishes, godspeed and good journey in all things; bucket lists hit us at any age and never seem to ever go away - just getting into you now, so go with it and right now is always the perfect time for such an endeavor. Separation anxiety never goes away, we just learn to cope with it - just take a deep breath and actively look toward making new good memories.
I've got to be honest I started this video with incredulity. You came across to me as a guy who had failed at holding down a 9-5 and wanted to make a viral video to get some subs. By the end of the video I was reevaluating my career choice at a crucial point in my life. Thank you for making this video.
I can relate to the desire for a better understanding. I feel at my best when I know the depth of my work, it also helps me appreciate it better. There is a great difference between knowing how to do something, and understanding how to do something.
It's also well known that EA treat (or at least have treated) their employees like crap. As usual, in the real world things are not binary good or bad, but that doesn't make good news articles.
Nice video. +1 for EA being a great place to work. I was a programmer at Tiburon for several years, it was just as you described, and I still miss it there. (I relocated for family reasons). Good for you taking advantage of this stage in life, doing something out of the ordinary, minimizing regrets in the future. You've got lots of time ahead of you for working on big projects at big studios.
Thank you for sharing your story. As an aspiring web developer who is stuck in “tutorial hell”, I sometimes feel too scared to start projects on my own because I want to fully understand concepts before going out into the playground with the big kids. But then I think it makes me stuck in a perpetual cycle of spinning my wheels. And I’m also a generalist as well, I like to know a little bit of everything but haven’t committed to one thing specifically.
They just have different people for the development team and marketing team. The devs are opening sauce good guys, the marketing are leeches that have done their jobs too well.
This is absolutely relatable. Something similar is happening to me actually as a full time developer for 4 year now. Im keeping my passion for developing software as a freelancer aside of my regular job. Its hard managing this with my family and my full time job but ist is worth every second. Maybe someday I will start a project like yours to keep me going. Keep up your amazing work and your interests.
"i had a lot of gaps in my knowledge" - you still have ;) it's an important step in everyones career to accept that you will always have huge gaps in your knowledge.
Yup, during my 20 year long career I've went from assembly to C to Prolog to C++ to Perl to Ruby to Erlang to Javascript to Python programming embedded systems, desktop applications, distributed server applications, web apps and ML algorithms and on my own time I've made all kinds of stuff including games. What I've learnt along the way is that.. there's way too much stuff for any one person to master :) (but it won't stop me from trying :D)
Great video! Started working abroad at a large game studio also when I was 20 (turning 21). I've now worked there for about 2 years.. Currently still a generalist also. (hired as a tool engineer). So far been doing devops stuff, my manager often asks me too what I want to do, what I want to specialize in. I can relate a lot to the airplane analogy. Everytime I'm asked, I basically don't know what to say. I don't have big picture knowledge of all that comes into play when it comes to tools and the devops side (smoketests, build systems / distribution etc).. It's a question I've been struggling to answer everytime I'm asked. At the moment I'm happy doing anything, I'm happy to have a nice job at a nice studio.. I don't think I'll ever have the courage to drop my job and start on my own.
Thanks for being frank about this. I'm glad that you are going to continue with TH-cam. When you explain things, I understand them. Other "teachers" talk too slow and I my mind goes elsewhere. Also, I think you are trying to teach, rather than to merely prove that you know the subject matter. I hope that you are able to be content at some level of not knowing *everything* about that airplane in your backyard. Hopefully you won't require full knowledge about metallurgy to be able to fully enjoy flying the plane!
I really dislike davids attitude towards life. He has so much money at such a young age that he only orders food and has staff for everything etc. He can perpetually stay a baby. No matter how much money I have I will always cook and clean and perfect my home keeping skills
@@NoName-qi7vx if i had this amount of money, im for sure getting staff to make clean my house or something. i dont enjoy that stuff, so it only makes sense to spend some money to make me happier
It makes sense that this would have been a hard decision, as you can tell the great appreciation for the opportunity is there. And yet, it’s obvious now that the need to understand is very strong, and ultimately, it is so nice to hear clarity of purpose won out. Nice story!
Hey Charno, since watching your videos, I have been enjoying your vibe a lot. Also all the 'small things' like the coffee and such. I hope you are doing as well as your videos make it seem you do! Cheers
This is how I feel when I was on the mobiles... Love to make apps but I always wanted to learn more this kind of stuff. Thanks for sharing. Love from mx
I feel you, its all a balancing act. Between work, family, youtube and also building an engine I get that burnt out feeling too. I got laid off 2 years back and I decided to take some time off before going back to work. I can honestly say, doing your own thing on your own time makes it much easier overall. You get this sense of freedom, plus there where things I built that I wouldn't have been able to accomplish if still had a day job. Enjoy the time you got. Hopefully its something you can do for a long time before needing to jump back into the grind. So congrats and good luck.
Love this video! I'm a young software programmer in the games industry as well and this has revealed a lot of ideas for me and my career. Thank you for this video. As a fan of you and the channel, I would love to hear the story of how you started working for EA!
I used to work as a Product Owner so I was very close to Dev and always gleamed what I could when I could. I’m also a gamer, so I absolutely love this channel! I can’t believe I only discovered it this year. Thanks dude 👍
Why I left my job at EA. They laid me and the team off. At Christmas. :)
Sounds more in character with the EA that the world knows
My condolences
never a good time to be laid off mate but wow you'd think they would have avoided xmas
Are you serious?
@@antwango I have had three xmas layoffs in the games industry. So they weren't unusual in that respect. ;)
That's basically why I left my job too. I worked as a gameplay programmer for 12 years in a game studio which has been bought by Activision, so I worked for Activision for 10 years there. I started in a team of 2 gameplay programmer, then 10, then 40, then 200 hundreds. I was used to make mostly everything, the playable character, the camera, the AI, the animation programming, at the end I was working on Call of Duty with 9 other studios spread around the world in a team of hundred of programmers, not even making gameplay anymore. That was my cue to go indie and go back to making pretty much everything.
My last game at Activision was Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare, one of the worse received CoD, but I didnt care, at all, I had such a low impact on the game, that if it was bad, I couldn't feel responsible and most importantly, if it was good, I couldn't either. Making games as always been my passion, having 0 creative impact on a creative media is taking away your soul.
@Naman Divgi Through those years I released 9 console games on PS2, PS3, PS4, Xbox 360, Xbox One, Wii, WiiU, 3DS and PC. As you can see my nickname is "random" so I can stay anonymous, so I wont go in more details on identifying who I am. I was a senior gameplay programmer at an Activision own studio.
@@randomrandom450 that’s cool bro
@@randomrandom450 bullshit.
@@randomrandom450 Thats Coold Wish I Could Apply to your game company : )
@@GameBoyyearsago We're very close to finally shipping our flagship project 💪
And this time, I do care😃
Long Story Short: "It was sunny and I wanted to play outside."
Wow, that's not judgemental at all.
@@NoName-ms8jb of course not, it's a completely mature comment from a very mature commenter that is a very trustworthy source of wisdom
JixS4v are you being sarcastic? I was.
LOL
Long Story Shorter: "I got married."
Long Story The Shortest: "I am young."
EA the same guys that hired a mod team to make BF2 and fired them all just weeks before the launch, never has a battlefield game been even close to the quality of BF2
I am unable to like like this post multiple times. 👍
It was probably stipulated in the contract and the mod team probably knew that it might have been a one time thing. Companies can't just fire people whenever they want to😂
Astro depending on where they are they can, in Texas any company can fire anyone for any reason at any time, unless there are other contracts going on that have clauses changing that fact
@@Chapz725 Unfortunately, mass layoffs are becoming the norm, at least in the game industry. Even when organizations rake in profits.
DICE didn't develop BF2? No other battlefield title being even close to the quality of BF2 is subjective. BF2 had plenty of glitches and bugs and unpolished aspects.
"so many things I want to learn, so many things I want to build" I know exactly what you mean. There isn't enough time in the day, I'm in my 50s and for some reason time speeds up as you get older. That's why I really like your programming channel. Learning C++ from scratch, the videos are very clear, very detailed and very efficient. Thank you The Cherno!
Man you made my day! I was disheartened thinking that I am learning all these things in my 30s. Your comment just made me feel thankful.
How has your coding journey gone?
Hey from another dude in his 50s with not enough time in the day! :))
@@versystudio822 same here, the effect is what I call 'time compression'. Time becomes 'compressed' as the years wear on. When we were children, a Summer seemed to last forever because the duration of a Summer was a greater percentage of our lifetime. Now a Summer seems to last perhaps a month and a half relatively speaking in my mind.
@@seirharpwell yours made my day as im kinda stuck with that at 20🤦🏼
*The Cherno* “So much about programming I didn’t know yet” * Me* “So how do I initialize an array again”
Me: what’s an array?
Me: What is initialize?
Me: Who am i?
Me:
@Toy Mecha r/decreasinglyverbose
Great story, very relatable.
Ok
Nice flex
wrgg
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I had a very similar experience with EA, I also got my first job out of college with EA and listening to this really touched a note. Same feelings about not understanding how systems worked together, same feelings about wanting to touch different things from time to time, same feelings about burn-out. 10 years, 4 companies, 6 languages, 3 engines, and 19 projects later, I'm interviewing with EA to return as a senior engineer. Honestly I feel so much more prepared and in a better head space for it. Maybe you will too some day :)
Hi,my name is Gideon and I'm upcoming software engineer but I recently lost access to my laptop and do not have any funds to get a new one ,please if you can help me with one I would be very grateful, thank you very much
Here's some life advice, everyone at all stages of their life, at every age, feels like they're a fraud at what they do. Like they've somehow gamed the system into getting this job that they don't belong in. Never think you're not good enough, everyone else is just an average adult too probably feeling the same thing too. It's only through teamwork, a bunch of average people working together, that we can build great things. Never say "I was too young, I didn't know enough".
Needed this, is your fault CHRIS. (Joke on your username)
I think you missed his point
He had a lot of points, a lot of good reasons for leaving, so I don’t think I missed his point. I was just speaking to one small point. His quest for knowledge is admirable, but I believe a more honest assessment would be it wasn’t the right job for him. He has no passion for working in a large team on a small piece of a much larger technology, at least he worked that out now than in 10 years time.
I always feel like I know nothing but working on high level R&D project...
Ya. You mean the impostor syndrome
Thanks for the insights and honesty. This hits me on a very personal level, as I've been in this situation twice and both were quite difficult decisions to say goodbye, but I knew it was time. Neither was a sudden decision, I thought about them for months before I actually did it. To anyone else in this situation: you need to leave your job. Maybe not today, maybe not next week, but you need to start pulling together a plan to bring your life back to a happy place, whatever that means for you. It's extremely important for your mental health, for your career health, for motivation, for relationships, etc. Don't quit today, but start making a plan today.
I didnt leave my job at EA as a software engineer, my one year contract expired and we parted ways. Thing is, I didn't fight to stay. I was miserable at the thought of leaving but I was miserable doing the work itself. I felt like such a number, just another cog in the machine, and the tasks felt uncomfortably unimportant. I wasn't allowed to work on anything game related outside of the company, wasn't even allowed to talk about anything game or game industry related with anybody, couldn't participate in game jams, and due to the unique nature of my job I also wasn't allowed to build websites for public consumption. The job stripped what made me.. me.. when around non EA people, it felt like I was in a prison. A very sexy looking prison, I REALLY LOVED the campus and my environment and how well the company itself took care of me... but I was miserable otherwise. I had just gotten married when I got that job, and my first child was ready to be born any minute. And while my very pregnant wife was at home alone all day, sometimes she'd be alone at night too as I'd be working super late because someone had a real desire to get me to finish yet another batch of unit tests before I go home. I've been working as a web engineer at a different company for the following 7 years and I've been much happier, while I pursue indie dev efforts at home, and still get to hang out with my wife and children. Work life balance is important.
I gave up, effectively, trying to make doing youtube a thing, I just don't have the energy for it among everything else so I took the opposite approach, though I still like to occasionally pretend I can lol
This was a trippy experience of listening to my own thoughts come out of a different person's mouth. Thank you for sharing this and I can't wait for the next story time with The Cherno :)
Man, it's all about being a better self, a meaning that's bound to life. Love your videos, both technical and aesthetic aspects!
Cherno, Bisqwit and Javid are the 3 legends of C++ on TH-cam!
ChiliTomatoNoodle is also a c++ legend. His tutorials are some of the best i've ever seen.
Jason Turner is p cool
Bisqwit is like an insane Einstein. Javid is sensible and calm. Like a hairy James Bond. Cherno is like your chilled out mate who drinks all your coffee :-)
Imagine their collaboration
ChiliTomatoNoodle should be up there, too. Helped me get up-and-running with DirectX 11 + Dear ImGui.
You're Amazing! That was a nice story and I personally get the feeling of learning on your own and the fun/difficult challenges it provides no matter what we are doing
Thank you so much for making this video. I've been interested in getting work in some form of software development and was watching your videos to see your experience and learn from it. Something clicked for me when you were talking about the aircraft analogy that makes my path forward somewhat more clear. Thanks for being you and keep doing what your doing. :)
This is a story all about how my job got flipped turned upside down
Osere 6 huh?
lol
The fresh prince from EA😆
lol beat me by 13 hours
Good video TheCherno! I was unaware that you actually left EA, I thought you was still working there!
Just out of curiosity did you think that his Hazel Engine videos were a new proprietary engine from EA to replace Frostbite? 😛
Same
@@2drealms196 nah if it was he wouldnt make it public
@@2drealms196 Noo :D
This was a good comment though!
*were
I appreciate your work and thanks for sharing. In many ways, I look up to you when it comes to doing my own stuff in my backyard. Thanks a lot!
this resonates with me so much. you have put my feelings into words :) thank you.
Hey Linus Tech Tips shouted you out in his apology video towards Tim Sweeney.
He did? I didn't notice it
Yeah I saw that too. Now you're famous 😂
I was so surprised when that came up lol
That’s how I came upon Cherno’s channel. His PS4 react videos were really cool to watch coming from someone who knows the technology. I’m now a subscriber. I like his vids
Yep the timestamp is 9:56 in Linus's video.
I liked the "in the future,...maybe I make my own game studio" option, the best😊
Wish you the best regardless
This video was really inspiring and made me think what I want to do, I would love to hear more about how you got to work at EA
Thanks for sharing this experience and being so open about it. Presenting it unscripted gave the message a greater level of depth. I am currently in a similar situation in which I would like to have much more insights in lots of different areas - it helps to see someone else go through it, too.
I'd love to hear more about your time at university. Was it how you expected it to be? Did you attend any hackathons/competitive programming competitions? Which units did you specify in? Love the videos :)
I can 100% empathize with this. I also work in a big software/hardware engineering company on a small part of some cutting edge tech and I also don't understand how the aeroplane works. It's frustrating and tedious. Imposter syndrome is real.
Also Melbourne based. But I have an electronics/communications degree so I think that makes the imposter syndrome (working in a software role) even worse.
@@nadnerb2178 do you work long hours being a software engineer? or is it a normal 38 - 40hr work week?
@@nadnerb2178 at least I am not alone!
This work thing becomes complex when you have passion for one thing and what you work is different....and to pursue one's passion they have to sacrifice their personal time and chase it. Too damn difficult....but still hanging in there..
@@geralt9034 normal 38 hour weeks.
I am in a similar, maybe a bit riskier situation right now and making such hard choices with everything that happened recently is, ugh, a challenge. However nothing can beat the rush and pure satisfaction of doing things on your terms and working diligently to grab onto your dreams and bring them into the reality.
I'm glad I discovered your yt challenge this morning and I'm even happier that you made this video. Thanks!
This was an awesome video. Thanks for sharing so much, you're really making this channel a personal place. It's hard to describe how amazing it's been to get exposed to the topics you have been teaching here, and also the way that you've chosen to. Thanks again.
You mentioned that you did some work on workflow/pipeline stuff. If you ever get burnt out with any of your series, I think there could be a lot of value in having a pipeline series from you. Even just a short series covering each tool(whichever you think single coders or small teams could use) and how they tie together. It's not just good practice and can take a lot of manual tasks off your plate, but letting new coders see and use a half decent pipeline will help them get comfortable with tools they'll have to use if they start working on larger projects (for work or open source, whatever).
Take care of yourself brother. I hope everyone is doing well.
I've gone through a very similar process in my career. First I worked for a big company in a huge and old project and felt like I just don't belong there -- at least not yet. I switched to a smaller company where I get to build software from scratch, designing the architecture, choosing libraries for the implementation, its devops pipeline and everything in it. I think it has been an extremely nurturing experience for not only my software development skills but also higher self-esteem and confidence that comes along when you feel like you understand a lot more about the practicalities of software engineering from a more holistic point of view.
This is kind of ironic, because I used your videos to prepare myself for an interview at EA and, guess what, I got the job! :-D
Congrats. Which position?
try to take over EA
Get SKATE 4 done
leave asap man they gpne kill u:(
@@Woupsme Software Engineer at EA Sports Madrid
One of the best videos I have seen in your channel, I wish you the best of lucks! and keep on following your dreams and whatever makes you happiest bro
Thanks for sharing your story, I fully understand the motives behind that step. Learning and advancing oneself (personal self growth) is super important imo.
I've been working for a multi national company since graduation and know exactly what you mean. Good pay but little personal growth. It's been over 6 years now and am planning to quit for same reason
Thank you for sharing this, I thought there was something wrong with me not wanting to be tied to being in an office or fulltime working for a company.
I just can't do it and wish I could do something else other than stay in front of a computer working on one thing, a specific thing. I do love software development, I just wanted to do something else at the same time..
I quit my job and started freelancing, learning anything I'd like to learn
Loved the video so much, being younger than you and having achieved nowhere near you in life, I have the same goals and thinking as you too regarding this. Very relatable. Love all your videos and your personality and approach to life. Thanks a lot for everything you provide :)
Following this channel since the first video, lots of amazing content
I would love to see you start your own studio at some point in life.....and if you do....I bet I'll be one of the first applicants lol......Keep chasing your dreams......LOVING YOUR WORK YAN❤️
Thank you for making videos for "non-programmers" since I am one of them!
I like you as a character and presenter and interested in understanding the "world of software engineering". So please make more videos like these ("life of a software developer".."understanding new technologies / PS5/ etc")
I want the feel of looking things from perspective of a non programmer unfortunately I can't see... cause I am programer.
Cherno is Lord for us programmer like us.
Thanks for being open. Great video!
inspiring career, hope you continue sharing you knoweledge and insights on the field.
I feel exactly the same way. I always want to see the "big picture". It gives me orientation and makes me much more effective in troubleshooting.
I would definitely like another story time with cherno, it would be interesting to see how you got into EA.
Really inspiring Cherno. I have always been into buildibg tools by myself and be in total control so I share your view and completely understand and respect your decision.
Really enjoyed this video. I agree with your preference of having a holistic understanding!
I ended up contracting and every contract was a new mind blowing mental exercise. One contract had 130 thousand classes which I had to fault find! Its mind blowingly hard. The most mentally difficult job there is. Makes you super intelligent but burns you out too. 3 months max on full power. Used to make me super cross and irritable, which I noticed in other "angry" programmers. BRAIN PAIN.
@Felipe Gomes He could.
But that would take time.
Would it take more time or less than finding problem by himself - that's a big question.
So it isn't always a good idea to automate EVERYTHING you do :-)
I totally get this. I worked for many AAA game studios over 20 years, eventually working as contract from home. Now Im doing tech videos about the industry on youtube. Loved doing the video game work, but I feel I have more to offer at this point in my life to help others, Cheers 😄👍🏻
Can completely understand your thoughts. Do what you like to do, learn as much as possible as you can and what you want. Some day that will all make sense to you when you look back. I am 9 years older than you and I still have the same feeling that I want to do and learn so much stuff. So no worries, you're on the right track.
I have been looking some answers to a question that corresponds to your situation. That example you gave about aircrafts really helped. THANK YOU.
If the Cherno didn't become an ace game dev, he'd definitely become an ace barrista judging by that awesome coffee in the intro..
Same feeling I had in my early 30s, I also quit my job for similar reasons and decided to spend some years working on my personal projects. Life is short, so spend your time doing what you like to do. You made a good decision.
Yea, life is short.
I definitely enjoyed this video, and would be excited to see a followup Story-Time with Cherno to go over how you got into EA!
Biggest like I have given a youtube video in a while now. Very inspirational, good luck and enjoy your time!
Same situation, I code non stop in my spare time, I work at a AAA game company and I can't seem to find an out. All I want is to work on my projects or small projects with others and have tried multiple avenues and never seem to make it, its a hard market to break into. I even moved from Australia for this job only to be here now feeling unfulfilled. After coding all day at work it is difficult to keep it up after work and after the past 8 years of doing that, its getting harder to keep up.
This guy's brilliant. Every time I think about quitting coding and though I'm still going through hell with C++, he does help alot.
Maybe it's just C++ is not for you?
Try C# or Python - maybe that will make you happier :-)
@@igorthelight I expected this nightmare with cpp. I'm thinking of taking up python as my main, but definitely keep experimenting with cpp.
There are pros out there who say that just like with arithmetic, you can do quite alot with just the very basics of cpp. When you think about it, it all started with 1s and 0s.
Hopefully, this hype with the virus will die down soon so I can register for classes.
I'm glad you've made this. I think your analogy explains it very well. I'm in a situation where I've been thrown into one part of a whole system before even getting a chance to know the rest of it. It's given me something to think about
I understand you 100% regarding the dilemma contributing to the state of the arts versus having your own project and understanding every thing. Thanks for the video, usually I find private stuff boring, but this one is really insightful
As a student of computer engineering, I believe I will have a similar problem.. When I work on my school projects with a team, I just want to understand how everything works, if I focus on one specific task I want to know what the other stuff does.
DJGuu
[Disclaimer: This is my opinion]
This is a pretty common trait among high performers.
I find i work best with people that are driven to realise their vision, and add their own unique value.
I think it means ur more susceptible to getting frustrated in a role for various reasons.
But don’t think of this as a bad thing.
Go with it.
Take the role.
Learn the ropes and try to follow what feels important and satisfying for u.
It might not take u very long to understand more about yourself and what u want, and u might feel that its time to move on and do ur own thing.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. This whole discussion is exactly why my first job out of college it was super important to me to have the "Software Systems Engineer" job title. Some people want to stay at that level for the duration of their career and some people decide to dive into a specific technical area as things progress. This is all just personal preference.
I was about your age when I did the same.. I just felt like, in order to grow my carier, every other aspect of my life has to pay the price, so I decided to quite and start working on my own thing! Even though I still didn't make any supstantial income, I'm absolutely sure I made the right decision, because of all other things I can focus on now (I drastically improved my diet, my health, I train regularly, and I code exactly the things I like, and WHENEVER I like)! :)
it's rare to find this kind of real talks. Thanks for the videos
This is such an inspiring video. You are living the dream!
I wish I would be at your level of confidence to say that I will decide when I will quit or start a job. That's a nice feeling. Way to go Cherno !!!
Respect
Improve your skills 🎿 💪
You'll be like him and decide like him 😉
Thanks Cherno, have you ever considered a smaller(not tiny) game studio? You'll probably get to work end-to-end on the whole game, possibly even hardware infrastructure, development of the game, distribution of the game application - if you want.
Very similar experiences I've had working as a lawyer (in Melbourne no less - hey!). In any technical field it seems like there's always going to be a tension between understanding one thing really really well and having a good sense of how everything works generally. Cool videos.
Thank you for your videos which help me build my little things in my backyard !!!
Knowing what I know now, and if I was 30 years younger, I'd love to do what you do. I've just started to learn C++ to work on microcontrollers and LEDs for work (which is how your videos started popping up on my feed). Your videos fascinate me, but I'm not yet at a level to completely understand them, especially at the speed you go. But one day I hope to widen my programming knowledge, inspired by you, even at my advanced age. Thanks, and keep up the great work.
You really should learn c for that type of work... c++ is unsuited in many ways. Huge binaries, bad support relative to c and c++ constructs just aren’t needed.
@@32gigs96 While C and assembly are the definitely industry standard for embedded, C++ is being used more and more for microcontrollers as they are getting more complex, faster and have more memory.
It's never too late, Tom. If you need to be convinced that 40, 50, and 60 is "young", just watch 20 minutes of any Gary Vee video. That guy is a machine of motivational truths.
C++ is what is supplied with the Arduino Uno IDE, which is where I'm learning. I'll understand more as I learn more.
C and C++ aren't even separate languages practically speaking, most C programs can be compiled by a C++ compiler just fine. Arduino is a classic example, it is indeed a slightly bastardised variant of C++, but most of the "constructs" used in a typical Arduino program are pure C. So I find it really strange when folks make these "C vs C++" arguments... I'd say something more like "yeah, C/C++ is all fine, whatever. But just don't be using new or malloc() unless you really think it through." The issue is which features you use and what the compiler is doing behind your back to give you those features, not the language itself.
complications occured: *I got married*
Yeah, and throw kids into the mix to really screw you up ;)
I thought this was a joke, lol. Poor guy... xD
Love your videos man. Seems you're on the right path. I understand the conflict of enjoying what you do, but not having the time to pursue your own interests.
Best wishes, godspeed and good journey in all things; bucket lists hit us at any age and never seem to ever go away - just getting into you now, so go with it and right now is always the perfect time for such an endeavor. Separation anxiety never goes away, we just learn to cope with it - just take a deep breath and actively look toward making new good memories.
I've got to be honest I started this video with incredulity. You came across to me as a guy who had failed at holding down a 9-5 and wanted to make a viral video to get some subs. By the end of the video I was reevaluating my career choice at a crucial point in my life. Thank you for making this video.
I thought someone else was playing the music at the start
Same here, went cycling over the other open tabs to check where the music was coming from lol. Btw what's the track?
Very inspiring. Thank you ❤️
I can relate to the desire for a better understanding. I feel at my best when I know the depth of my work, it also helps me appreciate it better. There is a great difference between knowing how to do something, and understanding how to do something.
"So I'm not gonna say anything negative about EA..."
Suddenly a rare NDA just spawned.
It's well known that EA treats their employees well. You don't need to lie about that
@@HelloWorld-fg2nm Yeah pretty much any large software company treats their employees beyond well.
Problem is they treat consumers like shit cans.
@@MrComputerCoder Well remember it's the popular thing to do is shit on "Gamers" and let dev's SJW to anything there heart desires....
It's also well known that EA treat (or at least have treated) their employees like crap. As usual, in the real world things are not binary good or bad, but that doesn't make good news articles.
@@SimonBuchanNz I've never spoken to anyone who said they didn't enjoy their time at EA
As Shakespeare once said: "This, above all else: to thine own self be true."
perfectionbox You mean Polonius, from Hamlet? It wasn’t shakespeare specifically.
Patch 990 Polonius is merely a character, so attributing Shakespeare is normal.
Nice video. +1 for EA being a great place to work. I was a programmer at Tiburon for several years, it was just as you described, and I still miss it there. (I relocated for family reasons).
Good for you taking advantage of this stage in life, doing something out of the ordinary, minimizing regrets in the future. You've got lots of time ahead of you for working on big projects at big studios.
Thank you for sharing your story. As an aspiring web developer who is stuck in “tutorial hell”, I sometimes feel too scared to start projects on my own because I want to fully understand concepts before going out into the playground with the big kids. But then I think it makes me stuck in a perpetual cycle of spinning my wheels. And I’m also a generalist as well, I like to know a little bit of everything but haven’t committed to one thing specifically.
At least some of their staff get treated well.... unlike their customers...apparently love "surprise mechanics"
They just have different people for the development team and marketing team. The devs are opening sauce good guys, the marketing are leeches that have done their jobs too well.
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This is absolutely relatable. Something similar is happening to me actually as a full time developer for 4 year now. Im keeping my passion for developing software as a freelancer aside of my regular job. Its hard managing this with my family and my full time job but ist is worth every second. Maybe someday I will start a project like yours to keep me going. Keep up your amazing work and your interests.
Love this idea, plz keep going
Kids in kindergarten: One two three .....
Kids on youtube: First Second Third .....
Second
Fourth
*Zero
Where is Satan when you need him?
You have 1 2 3 likes too lol
"i had a lot of gaps in my knowledge" - you still have ;) it's an important step in everyones career to accept that you will always have huge gaps in your knowledge.
Yup, during my 20 year long career I've went from assembly to C to Prolog to C++ to Perl to Ruby to Erlang to Javascript to Python programming embedded systems, desktop applications, distributed server applications, web apps and ML algorithms and on my own time I've made all kinds of stuff including games. What I've learnt along the way is that.. there's way too much stuff for any one person to master :)
(but it won't stop me from trying :D)
@@digitalspecter wow how
Great video! Started working abroad at a large game studio also when I was 20 (turning 21). I've now worked there for about 2 years.. Currently still a generalist also. (hired as a tool engineer). So far been doing devops stuff, my manager often asks me too what I want to do, what I want to specialize in.
I can relate a lot to the airplane analogy. Everytime I'm asked, I basically don't know what to say. I don't have big picture knowledge of all that comes into play when it comes to tools and the devops side (smoketests, build systems / distribution etc).. It's a question I've been struggling to answer everytime I'm asked.
At the moment I'm happy doing anything, I'm happy to have a nice job at a nice studio.. I don't think I'll ever have the courage to drop my job and start on my own.
Nice video! So relatable!
Thanks for being frank about this. I'm glad that you are going to continue with TH-cam. When you explain things, I understand them. Other "teachers" talk too slow and I my mind goes elsewhere. Also, I think you are trying to teach, rather than to merely prove that you know the subject matter. I hope that you are able to be content at some level of not knowing *everything* about that airplane in your backyard. Hopefully you won't require full knowledge about metallurgy to be able to fully enjoy flying the plane!
If David Dobrik was smart and mature this is what he would look like.
I really dislike davids attitude towards life. He has so much money at such a young age that he only orders food and has staff for everything etc. He can perpetually stay a baby. No matter how much money I have I will always cook and clean and perfect my home keeping skills
@@NoName-qi7vx if i had this amount of money, im for sure getting staff to make clean my house or something. i dont enjoy that stuff, so it only makes sense to spend some money to make me happier
It makes sense that this would have been a hard decision, as you can tell the great appreciation for the opportunity is there. And yet, it’s obvious now that the need to understand is very strong, and ultimately, it is so nice to hear clarity of purpose won out. Nice story!
Hey Charno, since watching your videos, I have been enjoying your vibe a lot. Also all the 'small things' like the coffee and such. I hope you are doing as well as your videos make it seem you do! Cheers
My experience at EA was great! We had coffee machines, a great working environment....
...so dis is why did i leave. why did i leave?🥺
Привет, Cherno! Молодец! Успехов в достижении своей мечты! Ты крутой!
This is so relatable. Thanks for sharing
This is how I feel when I was on the mobiles... Love to make apps but I always wanted to learn more this kind of stuff. Thanks for sharing. Love from mx
If Cherno opens his own game studio, I'm applying...
Amazingly I'm an aerospace engineer and a spare time game developer 😂
This video is 110% accurate
I feel you, its all a balancing act. Between work, family, youtube and also building an engine I get that burnt out feeling too. I got laid off 2 years back and I decided to take some time off before going back to work. I can honestly say, doing your own thing on your own time makes it much easier overall. You get this sense of freedom, plus there where things I built that I wouldn't have been able to accomplish if still had a day job.
Enjoy the time you got. Hopefully its something you can do for a long time before needing to jump back into the grind. So congrats and good luck.
Love this video! I'm a young software programmer in the games industry as well and this has revealed a lot of ideas for me and my career. Thank you for this video.
As a fan of you and the channel, I would love to hear the story of how you started working for EA!
"you will be welcomed back when you realize your error " lmao
The Cherno is a champion, u inspired me.
He inspires us*
@@belgacemnedjima2231 yes, I'm also planning to leave the industry :P
I used to work as a Product Owner so I was very close to Dev and always gleamed what I could when I could. I’m also a gamer, so I absolutely love this channel! I can’t believe I only discovered it this year. Thanks dude 👍
This is a good video. Thanks for the story!