Kind of creating a solution to a problem that doesn’t really exist. I can’t see these doing all that well. What we want is affordable beta leads, model t reissues, model t tube preamps, possibly a compact 2x12 with up to 200w power handling would be fine and more reasonable in todays gigging climate
All they had to do to be succesful was 1.) Reissue the Model T at a decent price point and 2.) make affordable Beta Leads. That's literally all people wanted, but ooooh no instead they just had to go and make goofy shit like this and the $3200 amps that nobody asked for
Idk about you but I need 1000 watts to play alone in my bedroom. But real talk you are right. If you go on reverb right now there’s about 12 sunn amp heads and they’re all $2000+ used. Just give us the amps.
If they would have reissued the beta lead at an affordable price point (say.. 400 bucks like the Orange SC100's) they would have gotten so much out of that its not even funny.
A) more speakers, more air movement, more loud. Running a pair of 412s with greenbacks is 200w and plenty loud B) the bands you mentioned play venues where they mic their cabs into the house system.
I'm no longer in the live sound business (too old and broke down), but I spent a few years running sound for bands, and more recording them in the studio. Now I service vintage audio gear. Based on that, let me make some observations. (1) This cab has a 1/4 inch jack for its input. These jacks were never meant to handle more than 2 or 3 amps of current, so that's a problem. 1KW at 8 ohms is 11 amps. (2) There's no need for a thousand-watt guitar amp, as noted by other commenters. (3) A direct-radiator loudspeaker can be no more than about 10-15% efficient. That means that if you're running 1KW into the speaker, 850-900 watts is being dissipated as heat. Where's that heat going? Oh, yeah, it's trapped inside that sealed wooden box, heating up metal parts bolted to the wooden box. Does it come with a fire extinguisher? (4) All loudspeakers suffer from thermal compression. As you push more power into them, the voice coils get hotter, and as this happens, the resistance (and therefore the impedance) of the coils rises, and so the amp delivers less power into the speaker, reducing its output. For even the best drivers, this begins to become noticeable once the average power over time hits about 50 watts per driver. So what good is having 250 watt drivers? (5) For direct radiators, the way to produce more acoustic power is not to pump incredible amounts of power into fewer drivers, but rather to use more drivers to handle the same amount of power. That's why bands that want (for whatever reason) a loud backline just use more speaker cabinets. The efficiency of the speaker array rises as you add cones, and by dividing the power amongst all those cones, you avoid issue 4, listed above. (6) I wonder if Sunn has overcome their historical tendency to build amps out of whatever parts came to hand on a given production day, rather than building all samples of a given model exactly the same way? I remember having three of the same Sunn amp apart on the bench at once, and looking at three completely different BOM's inside.
How can you make a video about a speaker cabinet, show that there's an amp plugged into it that is receiving power, have a guy in a chair with a guitar in his lap that's plugged into that amp, and NOT PLAY A SINGLE NOTE? You're trying to sell people a cab which you've mentioned is more expensive than most cabs on the market (and which also doesn't even appear on the website linked in the description) and you just want us all to take your word for it? Happy about the Beta Lead though, maybe I'll get one of those and a Mesa cab.
They do seem to be heavily implying/teasing that they will, they’ve posted on they’re stories of the chassis and the metal empty chassis being built so hopefully it comes out soon
Hartke has 1000 watt 410 bass cab. I’ve gigged with it for years so this certainly isn’t the first 1000 watt cab. What is going on with this company? I was so excited…
All great having a 1000 watt cab until the moment you get on a stage and a sound engineer is mic'ing up one speaker on your 4x12 telling you to turn yourself way down and you're using less than 20 watts of power out of a traditional 100 watt head.
You just have to delay the PA and once it's time/phase aligned with the backline then you get an amazing sound no matter how loud the band is on stage. But ALL the amps and the snare have to be in line with each other. Very old trick. But 1000W cabs are for headliners with touring FOH engineers playing 1000+ cap rooms.
Those speakers looks like relabeled Eminence DeltaPro 12A, they are rather efficient. But considering wattage they are more likely to be closer to LEGEND EM12. So somewhere between 99 to 101 dB per speaker at 1W, which is realy loud.
Zakk Wylde has a signature speaker with EV that he runs in his cabinets. They have the Black Label Society logo on them. I've been wanting them for years, but it was the cost. I did manage to get the Eminence DV-77 Mick Thompson speaker that's I higher rating as I prefer the higher wattage speaker as well. Just sounds better to me, and not to mention the "thump" is awesome lol. I put my Eminence DV-77 speaker in a Marshall JCM800 4010 combo that I hated the speaker in and the DV-77 was amazing, made me love the amp, it's only a 50 watt , but works so well in it. I'd love to try this cab in the video!
That’s wild an amp company doesn’t understand why people would like to overpower speakers. It’s the model T re-issues all over again. This thing sucks and it’s expensive.
The R&D team is stuck in 1976. What a dumb video. What a dumb product. The "inhibition" of guitar speakers gives the final touch of character to your output before it gets taken away by the mic and PA. 1000-watt full stacks exist. No one uses them anymore. This is literally just some stoner that keeps saying his cab is 1000 watts.
A 1000W cab really only makes sense for bass in a loud concert setting.Multiple low wattage speakers for guitar have been tried and true for a couple of generations now.Hard to fix something that's not broken.
I run a custom oversized cab. 1x12/1x15 Kappalite 3015 and 3012HO. Yeah, it misses out a bit on the high frequencies (the 15 only goes up to 4khz) but for low tuned doomy riffage and 8-string grooving, it's unbelievable. It's also a 2-speaker system and both speakers handle over 400 watts.
Please excuse, but Isn't this totally against any trend? Also i don't understand the talking about volume and power handling, when sound quality should be the main topic. Also we did not get a sound sample
You probably can buy a Fender 412S or the Sunn equivalent of that cabinet, and 4 Eminence EM12, for less than half of what this thing costs, and its practically the same thing, more so if you get the sunn 4x12 that fender made before. Im pretty sure the speakers on this cab sound really similar if not exactly like the EM12, which is in my opinion pretty far from the "desirable" sound that someone who would be interested in a "Doom Box" would want.
Love Sunn but this will only appeal to those who don’t actually play live. It was all hype and no sound. The important questions:how does it sound? How much does it cost? How much does it weigh? I know that I would love this cab except for the above 3 questions.
Most powerful 😂😂😂 nahhhh. Bought an old sunn215s for 50$. And am throwing eminence delta 4ohm 600 watts in it. 600+600. 1200 continuous. I’m building the doom box killer under 400$. 2300$ is insane
A better analogy would be "cabs like giving a horse way to big a track to run on." Plug a guitar amp into a PA loudspeaker same thing. Btw, anyone can custom make a speaker at eminence. Just saying. This is for professionals only.
i wish you guys would do a video on your frfr speakers because they came out of nowhere and you have limited info on them and you don’t answer questions about them and there are no videos of any sort. it’s like you rebranded some frfrs and if that’s the case then at least say so if you want to sell any of them
Something doesn't seem quite right here, the only way to get a 1000 watt power rating with four 250 watt drivers is to have them hooked up in parallel. The drivers are 8 ohms each which would give you an over all 2 ohm load not 8 like in the specs. The only way to get an overall 8 ohm load would be to have a series parallel hook up like they show in the video when they show the inside of the cabinet. This I believe would limit the power to 500 watts. Also, just increasing the power handling of a driver doesn't always mean the sound output is going to be more. Heavier duty surrounds, voice coils and such usually decrease the sensitivity of the driver making it need more power to get to the same output. I'm no expert but is any of this making sense to anyone?
Wrong. Series/parallel for 4 speakers is: power = (no. speakers) x (power of one) = 4 x 250 = 1000W input ipedance = impedance of one speaker = 8 ohms So it is alright.
Confused which 30W speakers are supposed to be in these standard 4x12s everyone is using. A greenback is 25W and the vintage 30 is 60W power handling...
Has any heavy band had any problems with standard Marshall 412 cabs since the beginning. Nope!!! Problem already solved. That was a weird video about trying to sell an overpriced 412 cab.
Only a very small amount of commercially available 4x12's have "30 Watt speakers" in them, and none of the bands mentioned are likely using those speakers in their cabs. Bit of a straw man argument there...
What kind of fantasy story is this? They went out and saw a lot of bass players use 4x12 cabs with 30 watt speakers? It’s cheaper to buy 3 semi pro 1x15” cabs than a 4x12 with 30 watt Celestions. It’s cool that they made a 1000 watt 4x12, but the straw man nonsense is uninteresting
Honestly I don't see much of a need for this product. The days of arena touring bands having huge stacks of cabinets behind them for massive volume are long gone, for good reason. That is pretty much the least optimal setup you could have for getting the sound out to the audience. We also now know that the way the cabinet is mic'ed up (microphone model, position and orientation) is among the largest contributors to the recorded sound, so any of the popular bands that would have wanted a doombox 40, 50 years ago are nowadays just looking for a good PA system that can faithfully reproduce the sound of their existing cab mic'ed up or their software modeller. We're past the days of massive stage volume (thank god). The people that are looking for loud cabs have already found cabs that suit their needs and also don't need cabs this loud. All a loud cab does on stage is act as an enemy to good sound. Louder is not automatically better and especially on stage, more volume just means more feedback and more bleed. I don't see there being anybody out there willing to spend so much money on a cabinet whose only selling point is being louder than the already plenty loud cabinets existing on the market.
Okay now, hold on 1 second here buddy! You've got four 250 watt drivers wired in a series parallel configuration. That a 500 watt system, not a 1,000 watt system. Though you WILL Get a 1,000 watt sound value out of that set up with a 500 watt amplifier. If you're running a 1,000 watt amplifier, you're either Over Powering those speakers, or they're Under Rated! :-)
I’m gonna have to build my own first gen Model T “reissue,” aren’t I? Get a new marketing person. This guy is barely coherent and sounds like he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Guys like you used to s***t on anyone with a modeler 10 years ago while i was running aroubd trying to teach techs how to use a fractal. There will always be a place for big amps.
Kind of creating a solution to a problem that doesn’t really exist. I can’t see these doing all that well.
What we want is affordable beta leads, model t reissues, model t tube preamps, possibly a compact 2x12 with up to 200w power handling would be fine and more reasonable in todays gigging climate
All they had to do to be succesful was 1.) Reissue the Model T at a decent price point and 2.) make affordable Beta Leads. That's literally all people wanted, but ooooh no instead they just had to go and make goofy shit like this and the $3200 amps that nobody asked for
And all either pre order or "coming soon".
Idk about you but I need 1000 watts to play alone in my bedroom. But real talk you are right. If you go on reverb right now there’s about 12 sunn amp heads and they’re all $2000+ used. Just give us the amps.
If they would have reissued the beta lead at an affordable price point (say.. 400 bucks like the Orange SC100's) they would have gotten so much out of that its not even funny.
I wanted a 500 watt coliseum head myself
You are nailing hard here! It’s so f***ing annoying how all this comeback has unravelled 🤯
A) more speakers, more air movement, more loud. Running a pair of 412s with greenbacks is 200w and plenty loud
B) the bands you mentioned play venues where they mic their cabs into the house system.
I'm no longer in the live sound business (too old and broke down), but I spent a few years running sound for bands, and more recording them in the studio. Now I service vintage audio gear. Based on that, let me make some observations.
(1) This cab has a 1/4 inch jack for its input. These jacks were never meant to handle more than 2 or 3 amps of current, so that's a problem. 1KW at 8 ohms is 11 amps.
(2) There's no need for a thousand-watt guitar amp, as noted by other commenters.
(3) A direct-radiator loudspeaker can be no more than about 10-15% efficient. That means that if you're running 1KW into the speaker, 850-900 watts is being dissipated as heat. Where's that heat going? Oh, yeah, it's trapped inside that sealed wooden box, heating up metal parts bolted to the wooden box. Does it come with a fire extinguisher?
(4) All loudspeakers suffer from thermal compression. As you push more power into them, the voice coils get hotter, and as this happens, the resistance (and therefore the impedance) of the coils rises, and so the amp delivers less power into the speaker, reducing its output. For even the best drivers, this begins to become noticeable once the average power over time hits about 50 watts per driver. So what good is having 250 watt drivers?
(5) For direct radiators, the way to produce more acoustic power is not to pump incredible amounts of power into fewer drivers, but rather to use more drivers to handle the same amount of power. That's why bands that want (for whatever reason) a loud backline just use more speaker cabinets. The efficiency of the speaker array rises as you add cones, and by dividing the power amongst all those cones, you avoid issue 4, listed above.
(6) I wonder if Sunn has overcome their historical tendency to build amps out of whatever parts came to hand on a given production day, rather than building all samples of a given model exactly the same way? I remember having three of the same Sunn amp apart on the bench at once, and looking at three completely different BOM's inside.
Thank you. I use 4-20Watt WGS G12Q’s driven by my YBA. Sounds good to me.
Great technical info.Thanks.
How can you make a video about a speaker cabinet, show that there's an amp plugged into it that is receiving power, have a guy in a chair with a guitar in his lap that's plugged into that amp, and NOT PLAY A SINGLE NOTE? You're trying to sell people a cab which you've mentioned is more expensive than most cabs on the market (and which also doesn't even appear on the website linked in the description) and you just want us all to take your word for it? Happy about the Beta Lead though, maybe I'll get one of those and a Mesa cab.
People want a reasonably priced Model T reissue. Just do that.
They do seem to be heavily implying/teasing that they will, they’ve posted on they’re stories of the chassis and the metal empty chassis being built so hopefully it comes out soon
Sounds amazing!
Oh......wait.....
Hartke has 1000 watt 410 bass cab. I’ve gigged with it for years so this certainly isn’t the first 1000 watt cab. What is going on with this company? I was so excited…
All great having a 1000 watt cab until the moment you get on a stage and a sound engineer is mic'ing up one speaker on your 4x12 telling you to turn yourself way down and you're using less than 20 watts of power out of a traditional 100 watt head.
Precisely!
You just have to delay the PA and once it's time/phase aligned with the backline then you get an amazing sound no matter how loud the band is on stage. But ALL the amps and the snare have to be in line with each other. Very old trick. But 1000W cabs are for headliners with touring FOH engineers playing 1000+ cap rooms.
so wow it's a bass cabinet
I have a Beta Bass combo I really need to get up and running. The distortion channel on it is amazing! It's been in my family since the 70's 😊
Wow... Looks sick.
My Sunn 215SPL bass cab puts out 800 watts at 4ohms stock. Mr Baker was way ahead of his time at Sunn. I'm sure this cab kicks ass too.
311 and limp bizkit using a beta lead is a wild thought but would be dope to hear
when are you guys going to start making amps?
How efficient are the speakers in dB? How efficient is the cabinet as a whole dB wise? Sound quality and efficiency matters. Thank you.
Those speakers looks like relabeled Eminence DeltaPro 12A, they are rather efficient. But considering wattage they are more likely to be closer to LEGEND EM12. So somewhere between 99 to 101 dB per speaker at 1W, which is realy loud.
Rated for 1000W and weighs 1000lbs.
Zakk Wylde has a signature speaker with EV that he runs in his cabinets. They have the Black Label Society logo on them. I've been wanting them for years, but it was the cost.
I did manage to get the Eminence DV-77 Mick Thompson speaker that's I higher rating as I prefer the higher wattage speaker as well. Just sounds better to me, and not to mention the "thump" is awesome lol. I put my Eminence DV-77 speaker in a Marshall JCM800 4010 combo that I hated the speaker in and the DV-77 was amazing, made me love the amp, it's only a 50 watt , but works so well in it.
I'd love to try this cab in the video!
That’s wild an amp company doesn’t understand why people would like to overpower speakers. It’s the model T re-issues all over again. This thing sucks and it’s expensive.
The R&D team is stuck in 1976. What a dumb video. What a dumb product. The "inhibition" of guitar speakers gives the final touch of character to your output before it gets taken away by the mic and PA. 1000-watt full stacks exist. No one uses them anymore. This is literally just some stoner that keeps saying his cab is 1000 watts.
what stoner rocker has 2400$ to spend just on a cabinet
Yeah man, tha’s like a whole months worth of weed.
@@PondoSinatra680 150 stizzy pods
Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa..... I just started the video but are you guys making or have made any new sunn beta leads?
Had the guitar in his hand the whole time and never played one dang note.
he is marketing guy. what you want? :D Never saw 30W speaker in use.
I'm sure they banged out a few videos in a row. This seems like the story of the cab/specs. Can't imagine they wouldn't also have a demo of the thing.
If this was for bass, it’d be super cool because bassists might actually use 1000w amps, but for guitar it’s a little silly. I still want it though
^^^ this is the comment. Exactly 1000%
A 1000W cab really only makes sense for bass in a loud concert setting.Multiple low wattage speakers for guitar have been tried and true for a couple of generations now.Hard to fix something that's not broken.
Loved my Sunn Coliseum 300 bass rigs with the slave power amps.... would love to have a 500 w version of the coliseum head myself.
I run a custom oversized cab. 1x12/1x15 Kappalite 3015 and 3012HO. Yeah, it misses out a bit on the high frequencies (the 15 only goes up to 4khz) but for low tuned doomy riffage and 8-string grooving, it's unbelievable.
It's also a 2-speaker system and both speakers handle over 400 watts.
Please excuse, but Isn't this totally against any trend? Also i don't understand the talking about volume and power handling, when sound quality should be the main topic.
Also we did not get a sound sample
$2400.00 who can afford that.
1000w where's all the heat going!?!
Asbestos cabs?
Who needs 1k watts ffs!?!
The cabinet construction is awesome. Especially using tooling from the 1930's. I curious about the frequency response?
Any demo/review coming soon?
Would be a good cab for venues that don’t mic your equipment. Year by year, I’ve noticed alot of sound guys wanting to turn down guitars/bass more.
You probably can buy a Fender 412S or the Sunn equivalent of that cabinet, and 4 Eminence EM12, for less than half of what this thing costs, and its practically the same thing, more so if you get the sunn 4x12 that fender made before.
Im pretty sure the speakers on this cab sound really similar if not exactly like the EM12, which is in my opinion pretty far from the "desirable" sound that someone who would be interested in a "Doom Box" would want.
How about making an affordable 800 watt Beta bass ? And 215 cabs for me to plug my bass into ?
I think the Sunn is setting.
Love Sunn but this will only appeal to those who don’t actually play live. It was all hype and no sound. The important questions:how does it sound? How much does it cost? How much does it weigh?
I know that I would love this cab except for the above 3 questions.
Most powerful 😂😂😂 nahhhh. Bought an old sunn215s for 50$. And am throwing eminence delta 4ohm 600 watts in it. 600+600. 1200 continuous. I’m building the doom box killer under 400$. 2300$ is insane
Any spl rating? Speaker sensitivity? Frequency range?
A better analogy would be "cabs like giving a horse way to big a track to run on." Plug a guitar amp into a PA loudspeaker same thing. Btw, anyone can custom make a speaker at eminence. Just saying. This is for professionals only.
Can anyone say kaboom that's a fire hazard waiting to happen just imagine the lawsuits 🙀
i wish you guys would do a video on your frfr speakers because they came out of nowhere and you have limited info on them and you don’t answer questions about them and there are no videos of any sort. it’s like you rebranded some frfrs and if that’s the case then at least say so if you want to sell any of them
Something doesn't seem quite right here, the only way to get a 1000 watt power rating with four 250 watt drivers is to have them hooked up in parallel. The drivers are 8 ohms each which would give you an over all 2 ohm load not 8 like in the specs. The only way to get an overall 8 ohm load would be to have a series parallel hook up like they show in the video when they show the inside of the cabinet. This I believe would limit the power to 500 watts. Also, just increasing the power handling of a driver doesn't always mean the sound output is going to be more. Heavier duty surrounds, voice coils and such usually decrease the sensitivity of the driver making it need more power to get to the same output. I'm no expert but is any of this making sense to anyone?
Wrong.
Series/parallel for 4 speakers is:
power = (no. speakers) x (power of one) = 4 x 250 = 1000W
input ipedance = impedance of one speaker = 8 ohms
So it is alright.
No good for guitar. You want the speakers to break up unless you're playing jazz.
Bass however would benefit from high volume speakers
Oh great. I can now pay $2,499 for a can that'll take my 1000w amp.
Confused which 30W speakers are supposed to be in these standard 4x12s everyone is using. A greenback is 25W and the vintage 30 is 60W power handling...
30w Greenbacks or H-30 probably, at least when it comes to Celestions
I’d put in 300 watt Zakk Wylde EV’s.
I just want a real model t reissue.
Is it loud?
I thought everyone was using amp modelers and in ear monitors these days, who needs cabs?
What do the speakers sound like. V30, green, cream back ECT
Or how about making something really cool, like an 800watt Coliseum and 410 cabs to get those entwistle tones.
so, 250W Swamp Thangs..... nice
2400 lmao. good luck
Has any heavy band had any problems with standard Marshall 412 cabs since the beginning. Nope!!! Problem already solved. That was a weird video about trying to sell an overpriced 412 cab.
The most expensive amplifier in the world.
Only a very small amount of commercially available 4x12's have "30 Watt speakers" in them, and none of the bands mentioned are likely using those speakers in their cabs. Bit of a straw man argument there...
If you wanna be the loudest, you have to be the loudest. Sunn for what they’re known for. 🔥
Be cheaper just to buy a used mesa 4x12 and stick 200-300 watt 12” speakers in it.
Guitarvey Weinstein.
Sp we can’t hear it. Come on guys. No talk. Let hear.
What kind of fantasy story is this?
They went out and saw a lot of bass players use 4x12 cabs with 30 watt speakers?
It’s cheaper to buy 3 semi pro 1x15” cabs than a 4x12 with 30 watt Celestions.
It’s cool that they made a 1000 watt 4x12, but the straw man nonsense is uninteresting
They missed the mark hard
Honestly I don't see much of a need for this product. The days of arena touring bands having huge stacks of cabinets behind them for massive volume are long gone, for good reason. That is pretty much the least optimal setup you could have for getting the sound out to the audience. We also now know that the way the cabinet is mic'ed up (microphone model, position and orientation) is among the largest contributors to the recorded sound, so any of the popular bands that would have wanted a doombox 40, 50 years ago are nowadays just looking for a good PA system that can faithfully reproduce the sound of their existing cab mic'ed up or their software modeller. We're past the days of massive stage volume (thank god). The people that are looking for loud cabs have already found cabs that suit their needs and also don't need cabs this loud. All a loud cab does on stage is act as an enemy to good sound. Louder is not automatically better and especially on stage, more volume just means more feedback and more bleed. I don't see there being anybody out there willing to spend so much money on a cabinet whose only selling point is being louder than the already plenty loud cabinets existing on the market.
You think you are smart, but you obviously don't understand the doom metal crowd this cabinet is marketed towards...
Okay now, hold on 1 second here buddy! You've got four 250 watt drivers wired in a series parallel configuration. That a 500 watt system, not a 1,000 watt system. Though you WILL Get a 1,000 watt sound value out of that set up with a 500 watt amplifier. If you're running a 1,000 watt amplifier, you're either Over Powering those speakers, or they're Under Rated! :-)
4:30 is all series.
@Echo_III
That would give the whole unit a 250 watt rating.
@@jessicaembers924 what? :D 4x250=250? New math? It is all in series so in -> 250 + 250 + 250 + 250 = 1000W
I’m gonna have to build my own first gen Model T “reissue,” aren’t I? Get a new marketing person. This guy is barely coherent and sounds like he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
No one needs anything...
No one needs 1000 watts……
these guys don't know what they are talking about. definitely not sold. most bands are using an ir to the sound system anyway.
Guys like you used to s***t on anyone with a modeler 10 years ago while i was running aroubd trying to teach techs how to use a fractal. There will always be a place for big amps.
The whole IR modeller schtick is for pussies and bedroom players... this cabinet is marketed towards grown men.
Listen to musicians, see what they want. This is far down on the list, like very far. Cool, but so many better products that you could have put out.