MESHTASTIC UK IS MOVING TO MEDIUM-FAST - UPDATE YOUR NODES NOW!!!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- Some people took my last video the wrong way, I get that maybe I was a bit harsh and I'm sorry it upset some.
I have been thinking for some time about how we can improve the performance of meshtastic in the UK now that it has become quite congested in some areas.
So after some discussion with the Meshtastic devs they recommended we try the LoRa preset medium-fast. So I propose we try this and see what happens, it should increase bandwidth at the expense of a tiny bit of range. We will review how its working in a week or so and I'll make another video.
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Would be cool if the devices could figure that out themself and would be able to still receive long fast messages to cover long remote locations. 😕 Meshtastic has still a long way to go.
You can always have two nodes, one on each setting, if you can afford it.
Absolutely love to see you trying to improve the situation! Best of luck! Really hope something can be sorted out!
great plan! very interested to see how it works out.
I think the 'is broken' was an odd choice, although I sympathise with the need to clickbait, but I still thought your demo was cool and I know you're just being enthusiastic about the tech. Some people took it too far imo.
Wonder if you could do a run-down/comparison of similar projects? Thinking disaster radio, ripple radio, meshtastic, APRS, LoRaMs, etc?
It's worth noting the on paper LoRa capabilities here before anyone switches. If your RSSI is below the noise floor, then the SNR needs to be above a certain value, depending on the spread factor, for reliable communications (again on paper, and reliable). For Long Fast with a spread factor of 11, that SNR is -17.5dBm or higher, Medium Fast with a spread factor of 9 the minimum SNR is -12.5dBm.
So unless your RSSI is above the noise floor (assuming you're able to check that yourself), if you've got a less than -12.5 SNR to a node you wish to directly connect to, or to any node within range of you, you're unlikely to have much luck with Medium Fast.
I cannot stress enough that Andy is correct regards repeater, repeater client and router. DO NOT USE THOSE SETTINGS unless your node is somewhere like the top of a high tower block, or top of a massive hill, with superb LOS all around and is on 24/7 and is updated regularly.
Certainly works nicely between me and a node 1.1 miles from me. Lack of anyone else using it is certainly a boon. Gave a listen to the length of the data bursts on a handheld and they are significantly shorter that's for sure. -99 RSSI at 1.1 miles, not sure if it just measures it the same and you get data loss at a different RSSI, but that's pretty much the same.
I'll keep my main node on LongFast and whack one of my others on an upstairs window mount and leave that running MediumFast, see if anyone pops up eventually.
Love your vids Andy. We have not this thing in Norway yet, but I hope it will came. The best from LB1NH. 🙂
Hehe Meshtastic works well in Brighton 😂 Medium Fast, lets try it
Western part of the Czech Republic runs on MF at least from end of the last year and in last few weeks the eastern part is switching from LF to MF too.
Yep, I believe they swear by it in Italy too!
Flood messaging will cause congestion.
Routing table would be best case which you need ack from the destination. Floor messageing could be improved if you had bit in delay base it on uptime so newer nodes have longer delay and cancel sent if a message is received again from other node. But back in the 90s we had a similar issue with p2p only being able reach limited number of nodes. The solution was to for network to promote nodes to a super node which would connect to nodes which slower speed or lower uptime. All searchs would be sent to super node the results send back to node that request search.
I'm trying Medium-Fast now and see literally zero nodes around Cambridge. Normally I see many tens of active nodes and over 100 total. My issue is more with message delivery than congestion, though.
Message delivery is linked to congestion. Give it time, it's possible there's one really good node that you receive most of your traffic through and that probably hasn't changed over yet.😁
@@andykirby I'll keep trying from time to time. Maybe your video will incentivise people to switch. But out here most of my nodes are very far away and there's little traffic.
It would be good if the software auto switched you depending on the number of nodes near you. And repeater nodes broadcast messages on both networks 🤷🏻♂️
I put my base node on the North Somerset coast over to MF a couple of days ago - it used to work well over to South Wales on LF, so will see if other nodes start to appear. I tested from my mobile node yesterday and the messages back to base were nice and snappy even with a fair bit of terrain and buildings in the way, so it shows promise.
Mate, that wasn't harsh, it was straight facts! Moving to Medium-Fast lets see how it goes!
Andy. I'm not upset. You and your friends have been like scouts and gone further than anyone, and there finding limits and prototype problems.
None of us had to buy $1000 equipment or subscriptions.
I have worked most of my life in R&D prototype development and problem solving and what starts as a "great idea" in the factory, will surely have problems when applied to real life. Sometimes even killing the project.
Here, you are in contact with Meshtastic, and we can solve things. Test, try, etc
It is an open source project after all.
I will reprogram like you say here.
Thanks for your transparency
🙏🏻👍🏻
You've not updated your meshtastic board. The latest update has router_client removed.
It must be the app I haven't updated, the device was updated this morning.
I've updated the app and the node and it's still there 🤷♀️
It's removed from the latest alpha firmware - I suspect if you pick it in the app, it will really use Client now.
@@PaulTaylor1Just tried it, router_client is still there, all my nodes are on .15 and I'm in the beta testing pool on google play.
Hi Andy it’s Paul from Orpington would you be able to tell the best ranges of nodes you are getting from your location in miles kindest regards Paul
Surely this is just for congested areas. In my small town there is only one other node I can make contact with on the default long-fast.
If you have good contact with the other user then discuss it with them, you can try it and if it works great if not go back to LF.
i had 250 nodes suddenly i lost more than half i only got 105 why has this happened
I living on the Belgium coast. I also did the temporarily conversion. I did a reset of the node list. I got 2 nodes in my list from the UK
I got some UK nodes on my list but none msg go through. So MF isn't the solution.
Tested in Czechia and honestly there is nothing like slight range loss, there is huge range loss, what you can catch on LF over hilly environment is unbelievable. On MF, yes you are faster, but thats like 1.5km (~mile) distance.
The firmware should detect node density, and automatically switch when density reaches a set level.
Tried MF tonight - could see five other nodes and could read their chatter, but I could not communicate with any of them. Time will tell if MF is better than LF as even though I can see 100+ nodes near me (and usually 20+ online at any time), my messages only seem to get through about 20% of the time.
If you've added other channels do you need to rename LongFast to MediumFast for it to work properly?
On my Android it did it automatically...
If you were in an area like I am beset with wildfire's you might appreciate data comms with ATAK and no cell service a little more. The UK is a small place with very little disruption. Moaning aside I have enjoyed your coverage.
I commented on this channel regarding the scalability issues of Meshtastic several months ago. I pointed out the cost of a decentralized networks comes at speed and congestion. I think the devs have realized this in the real world and will work to a more dynamic protocol with quasi centralization. Has always been on the cards. Having a static 3 hop rule was never going to work at scale. Not a criticism..
I would like to find a supplier who can supply all the equipment to enable me to put up a node .
Any info on suppliers would be great Andy.
Nice work
Look, if Medium Fast were renamed to Rich and Sexy everybody would be there already
Can meshtastic decide to be one mode for repeaters and another mode for clients
Like all new device's & firmware program mesh or don't & lots of choice &try diverent mediums do it cheaply 🙌🙌🙌good experiment 👍🙌👍🎉
All three of my ESP32 nodes on v2.3.13 have needed a full factory reset to work after moving from LomgFast to Medium Fast, even after a NodeDB reset, just FYI
Love ya Andy! But no! This is all wrong!
There is nothing wrong with LF expecially in the North West.
The main issues is too many people jumping to alpha releases of the firmwares as well as everyone all over the place on different fw revisions.
PEOPLE NEEED TO STOP INSTALL ALPHA RELEASES UNLESS THEY ARE DEVELOPERS.
A BETA is generally kinda Stable but will no doubt has some issues.
An ALPHA is basicly for development use only! with possibly a few test users here and there.
A FINAL release would be good, But that isn't going to have a chance to happen with Meshtastic as people just keep demanding more and more of our developers.
MF won't solve a thing, definitely won't help with everyone on different FW Revision's.
MediumFast is going to over saturate even more than LongFast,
LongModerate would be a better choice,
I know your only learning these things and scraping together what you can for a Video. But this wasn't a good resue from your last move (video).
I cant get any connections around here other than long. Problem living in the countryside.
🤝🤝
All the latest Android and Apple phones are using a mesh network for signalling while phone is off, is it the same system?
Yeah I heard this, no it's not the same thing, this is decentralised.
Realistically most people would have enough nodes to run 1 on long fast and another on medium fast and actually compare the results
No!
It was talked about medium-fast from people on facebook and the Devs BEFORE your video. It didn't have anything to do with you 🤣
I didn't say that, I said the video caused more discussion on the MT official Discord.
can you operate 2.4ghz drones and rc kit over mesh networks?
Meshtastic uses 868MHz in EU so yes u can do that.
no, there is a 10% duty cycle on the ISM band. you'd want to be able control your RC stuff 100% of the time.
@@valzzu hydrogen crypto?
@@valzzu pop over to dedham near colchester?
Or we could just tell everyone to ignore Ofcom and do override duty cycle!
Did you say " one foul swoop " ? Tut tut if you did.
Your title is misleading. They might've recommended this for congested areas not as a general rule. Always with the clickbait ANDY! DISLIKE.
Compared to the US, the UK is one great big congested blob. Most of the empty areas on the map are where there's nobody anyway.
I'm giving the MF experiment a good go, so are several others in my area, and the more that switch, the more we'll gather useful data on just how good MF is for the UK in general.
@@technicalfoolAndy is 100% factual. The mesh is “broken” because of a few key factors. Firstly, congestion, which is causing packet collisions, which is partly why you cannot get an ack or messages out. Even if you’re not directly in a heavily congested area, the chances are you’re being routed via a very well placed router node that is being absolutely bombarded by traffic, some of which will also be coming to your node. Just because you can see150 nodes doesn’t mean you have good LOS to those nodes, enough to get a message to them all. Secondly people running as router/repeater when not in an optimal location is causing utter insanity with routing of packets. They are drawing in traffic, but because they are suboptimal located the packets aren’t being passed on to another node. Think of somewhere like Emley Moor Tower, that’s optimally placed on a high hillside with LOS all around, now compare that to someone in a residential estate with a basic antenna on a roof. That’s partly the problem, people need to stop using those settings. And medium fast is exactly as Andy said, it is quicker so transmits more data quicker, over a shorter distance, so should hopefully ease congestion. And finally, for the love of God, people need to turn off MQTT.
@@technicalfoolyou can't lump the whole UK together, that's ridiculous. Just because your city is congested, people should be intelligent about the needs of their own local mesh.
Well, I’m in clacton and I see nobody yet so come on guys! Switch over to medium fast!
Several hundred ££ in and it's crap
I can't trust you any more.
Here we go 🙄
Is it them shifty eyes?
Trust me then :) use medium fast 🤣
What's happend
Meshtastic still in beta. UK get to his limitations. So to switch can be a solution. But to me a review of the Meshtastic can also be the solution. A better packets management...
😎 I'm sorry but i think Meshtastic is not going to provide whatever people think it will ... it wont be usefull for alternative comms if the main nets go down ... it is to complicated anyway, to much data-stuff & settings ... it is only good for waisting your time and keep you off the streets ... better look for something that dont need all the hassle &hustle ... ok ok , you learn a little ,but mostly that it is useless how it is now
Bro, you need to go back to school and learn some spelling and sentence structure. No wonder you have "issues" with LORA/Meshtastic.