"The engine can run on virtually anything with combustible properties and "Chrysler claimed the turbine could gulp everything from peanut oil to Chanel No. 5." The President of Mexico tested this theory by running one of the first cars-successfully-on tequila, after Chrysler engineers confirmed that the car would operate successfully. No air/fuel adjustments are required to switch from one fuel type to another and the only evidence of which fuel was used is the odor of the exhaust. "
A former co-worker of mine was part of the test program. At the time, he was a traveling salesman. He said the car ran exceptionally smooth and he had few if any problems with it. He would have to meet with the test engineers periodically for them to take test readings of the engine. Overall he was impressed with the car while he had it.
I always remember the first time I learned of the turbine car, I was in a customer's house working on the furnace and saw an auto magazine in the basement with one on the cover in the late 80s. That customer also had a Cord in his garage along with a remote control lawn mower he put together, another reason to remember it. Thanks for the great stories. 😁
Al Bradshaw was also one of the district managers who was involved in the turbine project when the fleet was loaned to consumers. He had quite a few stories of mishaps. He was also instrumental in getting the St Louis museum car up and running. For many years he managed the Chrysler Training Center in St Louis. Before going to work for Chrysler, he was involved with the first jet powered land speed record car, the flying caduceus.
i swear if i had been there and they let me have one of these for test driving..when they came to call it back it would have mysteriously disappeared...lol
Exactly. Jay Leno has one, and there is only one other in private hands. Had I been there to test them, mine would have "mysteriously disappeared in a boating accident over the Mariannas Trench"!
so if i'm hearing you right, big oil and the government even in the 70's forced them to shut down due to restrictions and regulations on what types of fuels could be used. So much for letting the public speak with their money and letting a product flop or take off rather than stifling inventive processes because you or your company didn't come up with the idea first. Great vid btw, nicely done.
Still have the Turbine car literature I picked up at the North Way Mall when the car was on display and filled out a card for a chance to have one of these cars to use !
Just like the Tucker the Chrysler turbine always made me think and feel, what if and what these cars would have been today, thank you for the video Steve👍
EXCELLENT FILM! Covers all aspects of the Chrysler turbine program, before and after the 1963 models lent to consumers for testing. Thank you so much for posting!!! :)
Great video! I ran with a bunch of guys in high school who if I must say, were pretty car savvy. The father of one guy was some kind of bigwig with Chrysler when those bronze cars came out and for some reason, he had one of them for a few weeks. Now with 'boys being boys' and Jim's folks being out one evening, well, the car got a few extra miles that night. Quite honestly, none of us were impressed. No real power, at least no the "put you through the back of your seat" we expected (wanted). It was unique and it did have that turbine whine, but we were a lot more excited about the big block Charger he brought home a couple of years later and then there was that GTX - nice.
My buddy's family was chosen to get one of these Turbine Cars for consumer testing. I got to ride in it many times. It was really cool to ride in, the interior was really "space age" for that time period. I loved the copper color, it really stood out from the other cars on the road. To this day, I'm still partial to that color and have had similarly colored motorcycles and cars. The turbine ran really smooth and sounded unlike anything on the road. I remember my buddy's father balancing a nickel on the engine as he revved it up. The only downside was that, even for that time period, it was a real dog when it came to acceleration. It rode super smooth but it seemed to take forever to get up to freeway speed. My buddy's dad was so impressed with the way the car looked and ran, he bought a new fully optioned 1965 Dodge Monaco with a 413 V8. It didn't ride as smooth as the Turbine Car, but that 413 would run rings around it and most other cars of that time.
Now one of those would be a good car for your collection ;-) I used to work for a power gen turbine company and was the process owner for the turbine blade moment weight program. Good times!
@@damny0utoobe I know this is an old comment but its still pretty short sighted. We have much more regulation to consider today especially when it comes to cars. Turbines do indeed have a different operating and peak efficiency envelops than ICE engines but to say they couldn't have been viable espeically if they had been freer to use non-traditional fuels and other technologies is a bit of an overstatement. Even piston engines struggled to meat the requirements of the time much less the ones in place today. This experiement didnt fail on its own right but rather it failed to beat piston engines on their home field while playign by rules set by government, other mfg and interests such as oil companies.
Iirc, after the turbine engine program was ended, a company bought everything from Chrysler and continued the development of the turbine and it made its way into the m1 battle tank.
Rover cars here in the UK built a prototype gas turbine car I believe. They're just so different I'd love to just have a drive in one. I remember buying a Honda CBX 6 cylinder motorcycle back in the 80's. Nearest thing to turbine like power.
HI Steve, I drove one of the turbine car in the Bronx. Have you ever seen the 1956 thunderbird turbine car? I later went into the USAF and helped build the green monster for Art Arfons and jet cars of California. The last turbine T-Bird was destroyed by accident at the Ford museum.
I remember seeing one of these at church one Sunday (upstate NY) when I was a kid. I also remember a steam powered vehicle at church one day - I think it may have been a Studebaker. Sightings like this kept church interesting...
Excellent video, Steve. It's easy for some to think there were dark, hidden forces that killed a promising thing. As usual, the truth is more complex. Gas turbines were tried a number of times. They seemed like a really cool idea at the time, at least as pitched in media such as Popular Science at the time. They had major advantages, but big downsides as well, some of which you mentioned. One thing not mentioned is that, whereas the pulsed nature of the combustion in a piston engine means that it can efficiently get rid of most of its waste heat straight out the exhaust pipe, engines like turbines and steam engines require heat exchangers to get rid of a bigger load of waste heat. Combine this with the high internal temperatures (requiring expensive materials), and the high fuel consumption at idle, and a few other things, and you have something that just didn't pan out in the end. Turbines were, in fact, tried in trucks and buses for a while, but just didn't catch on. Steve, being in the entertainment industry as well as being into technology in general and cars (an interesting combination that once had its epicenter arguably in Detroit), you may be interested in an observation I'll make. Thinking of this, I also think of a couple of other technologies in audio engineering that looked promising at the time. Those were the radial tonearm and the crossfield tape head. The first of these was a bit like the gas turbine in having some obvious advantages, but it was difficult to make a tonearm go sideways across a disc without introducing noise and vibration. The crossfield head worked fine AFAIK, but only helped performance significantly for slow tape speeds on tapes that weren't that thin-a combination that wasn't getting used much. I've owned devices of both types. They were in a Rabco ST-4 and a Tandberg 3600XD. My memories of both products are not especially favorable. Of course, ultimately digital technology soon made all this pretty much irrelevant (one thing being that, although digital used tape at the time, it did not use bias, so there was obviously no question of how best to apply it).
You're wrong. The only reason we don't have cars using this technology today is the federal government and overbearing regulatory overhead. I was promised flying cars by 2020, but I can't even have a turbine powered road car.
Thank you for making this video about such an amazing car. I only found out about it today, from an Australian TV show called Classic Resto's. After that, I went on TH-cam to find more information. I just came from watching Jay Leno's Garage's episode about this car. While it's a shame that it was ultimately a commercial failure, it's also an amazing glimpse into what might have been, and it was ahead of it's time. I'm glad to see some examples were preserved, so that it doesn't slip into absolute obscurity. Moreover, being able to watch and hear a survivor being started and driven by Jay was great!
Excellent video! I am fascinated with these cars. I was born and raised in Pontiac Michigan. My parents and grandparents worked for General Motors, ironically my uncle currently works security in the building where at least one of the cars is housed in Auburn Hills Michigan. I am a car collector myself, I currently have 9 registered and insured cars. I would like to get a copy of your book so I can learn even more about them. I saw one of these cars at the Henry Ford Museum years ago. I currently live in Atlanta, a long way from Woodward Avenue! Next time I'm in Michigan I am going to visit one of these cars. What is the best way to get a copy of your book? It's hard to think about those cars being crushed and burned.
Very well done documentary! Especially with today's Technology and Engine Management Systems, a Turbine powered Car is entirely doable...... IF today's brightest Minds would worry LESS about "safe spaces", PC and being Butthurt about EVERYTHING - and actually WORK and do research with real diligence... We CAN have cars like this, with High Performance, Efficiency, and Earth friendly too!
Excellent Documentary. The only thing missing is an Audio Clip of the "Whoosh" sound rather than the brief mention. The sound was a pretty big issue for some.
Great story. Chrysler won the army competition for the new main battle tank in the 1970s The M1 Abrams used an Automotive Gas Turbine (AGT) for power which was a unique and revolutionary concept. I'm sure the developments you described played a large part. The tank and its turbine power have been a great success.
Great job on this video synopsis for the Legendary Chrysler Turbine Cars. If only Chrysler and the designers had realized that Turbine Engines are most efficient at 98% rpm and above they wouldn’t have coupled it to a transmission but instead a generator that powered an electric drivetrain the performance and possibly the fuel economy would have been much better. Today several companies have developed and are continuing to refine “Microturbine Range Extenders” for electric cars. In my opinion this is a better solution than pure Electric Vehicles or Hybrids that utilize small gasoline or Diesel engines to extend their range. Microturbine Generators are much lighter, only have a few moving parts, DO NOT have lubrication or cooling systems or require regular maintenance. They can be run on almost any currently available fuel without modifications, are extremely efficient, DO NOT require any exhaust gas treatment of any kind (and that is from the US EPA) and have projected lifetimes of 15,000 hours (I had a company truck that had 256,000 miles with less than 6,000 hours on the clock) a properly designed “Range Extender Package” could “easily” be transferred from one EV to another if desired. These units have more than enough capacity to power the EV while recharging the batteries before switching off when not needed.
I saw one of these in the year 1964 or 65, at Carlisle PA. I was a student at Dickinson College at the time. I don't know who owned it, but I vaguely remember that someone I knew got to ride in it. Wasn't there also a turbine powered car at the INDY 500? I remember that it was winning until the very end, when something broke, and it coasted to a stop. I think they were banned after that, from the race. I don't know if I have my facts straight on that, or not.
+nidurnevets As I recall, Andy Granatelli was a big promotor of the turbine powered car at Indy. The first year was 1967 I think, and his driver kept the car in first place for many laps until close to the end when there was a flame-out with no way to restart. It was a 4-wheel driver car too, and was able to make the whole race on only 2 pit stops. After that race, the US Auto Club decided that the next year, they would limit the intake of the turbine to 15 square inches. So Granatelll redesigned the turbine as a smaller 2-wheel drive version, wedge-shaped for les air resistance and again led most of the race that next year, but as I recall a gear box problem came up towards the end of the race, so again he didn't win. Then after that, the U.S. Auto Club made the outrageous decision to outlaw turbine engines altogether, claiming that "the fans expect to hear the roar of engines". Because of that decision, I never again watched an Indy 500 race.
I remember the turbine car at Indy. I think there were a number of reasons they banned them. Another car engine I remember is the Wankel engine, if I am spelling that right. My wife had an old Mazda with that type of engine. It seemed to be a reliable engine, but they don't make them anymore as far as I know.
Im 75 years in age and I remember this beautiful car. That body was a KILLER of all KILLERS. Notice that smooth roofline. Even if the turbine engine would not make it, why didn"t Chrysler install a V8 piston engine, like the 383 engine. They would have sold a s@#$ load of cars back then. That body spoke for itself! When I lived in LA, I did go to see it up close and today, 5-25-2022 it still bring memories of how it looks in person.
I had a ride in one in 1967 when I was in college and Chrysler visited our campus. We got on the open road and the driver stomped on it. The engine spooled up somewhat slowly but the acceleration was a steady push up to 90 and it seemed that it would have continued for quite a while!
The EPA emissions test (at the 10:00 mark) were restricted to fuels that would make the turbine look as bad as possible. Why was that? Influence from Ford and GM. They had previously thought that the turbine was advertising gimmick that would never sell to the public. Once the Gen-3 engine was running, it was obvious that it could eventually be improved enough to smooth out the rough spots. There were two problems for Ford and GM. First Chrysler was WAY ahead of them on small turbine development. And second, most piston engines would wear out at 250,000 miles, and these turbines showed every indication that they could last over a million miles. This meant that people wouldn't buy as many cars as frequently. It's not hard to do the math. When there is an oil crisis that threatens Americas independence from foreign interests, here was an engine that could run on vegetable oil, or bio-diesel...
Sounds like yet another fascinating technology that could have been a serious alternative to both gas-piston, hybrid and battery-electric cars yet fucked by government intervention and red tape...
I recall watching a video, some years ago, that showed GM's turbine powered car. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the other automakers also have had turbine powered projects. As for the body design, I guess it was one of Ghia's last designs before being purchased by Ford. Then Ghia gave us the Mustang II and the Granada. Gag!!
I have seen two videos done by "Urban Explorers" who recently found a specially modified one in an abandoned building. I will get the links for you... be back in a little while...Josh and RnK saw it.... they called it a jet engine car... might not be the same thing...
i remember as a kid, following the turbine car , and dreaming, in popular science, but never learned the details of its disappearance. in those days my father was one of chrysler's corporate lawyers. years later, as my father was finishing his race, he told me he had had a chance to have one of the tester cars, but he wasn't into fancy cars(i grew up with valients, (and the slant six) so close, and yet so far!
My parents lived in Columbus Oh in the 60's when Chrysler had given one to a Columbus resident, my dad told me about seeing it around town and hearing it's unique sound.
My dad, Jerry Mills, worked for Chrysler. In the 60s, he as assigned to take one of those turbine cars to NYC for the Today Show. On TV, he fueled it with $5000 worth of Chanel #5, plus a bottle of whiskey. He removed one of the front wheels, because Chrysler also wanted to promote their torsion bar suspension. For the rest of the day, he drove around Manhattan on 3 wheels. Alas, I have no pictures from that day.
the one that I saw had no steering wheel ...it employed a "Joystick" in the center console that replaced the 'Stickshift' to go forward, left, right, and pull back for brakes ...it had a button in the middle for reverse ...My version of the 'turbine' was STEAM (superheated) ...Today I would involve some 'electrolysis' (Plasma) system
Looks like Wernher Von Braun at 1:02. I wasn't aware he was involved with the turbine car. But the time line is accurate as he was developing rockets for NASA in the 1960's.
That is W. Von Braun but the pic is at Huntsville where Chrysler's missile division was located. I am not sure what he and Huebner were working on in that picture but I bet they talked about rockets and turbines. I found that picture in a collection of Huebner's papers.
Very cool. I'm 42 and outside of the basics like Shuttle program and that we landed people on the moon I am just really learning about the space program in depth. I only learned about Von Braun and his history within the last year or so. It would make sense that he was involved in the turbine car. Back then....who else better to consult? LOL
Awesome! Now I've got to spend Saturday watching all these great car vids! You should make a play list- these are sort of hiding amongst the less popular(but good) law vids.
He didn't design the Saturn V rocket, that's a common myth. As a matter of fact his vision for the Saturn V was rejected by NASA in favor of a configuration thought up by a young engineer from Chance-Vought, his idea of landing one giant rocket on the moon wasn't feasible at the time.
Is the model Turbine car behind you the same model spoken of in this video . where did you get it ? I was aware of the car but not of the PROGRAM , the pictures of other turbine models astounded me . Very cool
steve i know this is a old vid.and you have extended knowledge on these.....but for the short time of this...it was great....i didnt know chrysler put them in early 70s satillites and later volaries...and the 1 looks like part cordoba or the dodge magnum 78..79..maby...but thank you
What kind of transmission did they use? I've recently had the idea of using a small turbine engine to power an electric motor which would power your wheels. That would give you the acceleration and speed that everyone loves about the Teslas, but you would have a much longer range than a Tesla.
A modified torqueflite. It was not directly connected to the turbine. The turbine had a fan that blasted air over another fan which was the input for the transmission.
Saw one parked in the lot in front of the E-Quad, Engineering Quadrangle, at Princeton when I was an undergraduate there. That would have been 1964-1967.
The Harrah's Turbine was sold to Tom Monaghan. Monaghan later sold it to a car collector named Frank Kleptz. While he owned it, he got it running and the car is currently owned by his son (Frank passed away a few years ago.)
I would have done cogeneration with an electric motor on each wheel. It might work well as a Hybrid system with a big enough battery. BMW did experiments with recovering heat energy from the exhaust. Why did they scrap the motor? Might've made a good stationary generator.
Well hell, I shoulda figured the government had a hand in putting a fork in the turbine car. Unfortunately it's early demise makes more sense to me now, after learning about our wonderful governments testing procedures. Of course they wouldn't consider making adjustments to their testing procedure, to account for a new and possibly up and coming propulsion system. Wouldn't wanna screw up what the oil companies had going...
If you knew the rough date or the name of the town, we can look it up and get the rest of the info. The exact dates, the name of the person with the car, which car it was and so on.
@@stevelehto, look at Sunnyvale Ca, I'm guessing 67 or 68. I VAGUELY remember one that the father of a friend of mine, had one. I don't know if it was someone showing him, or he was one of the few. Last name, Boyer. steve
Well I'd like to say seeing a turbine car is a rare sight. But I remeber seeing Frank Kleptz's car alot in the late 90s early 2000. Living in Terre Haute does have its advantages sometimes. Unfortunately Frank passed and I don't see it as much as I use to around town.
the problem with the G.T.E (turboshaft/turboprop) lacking of torque is that it has only 1 stage of split shaft turbine, if it has 2 to 3 stages of free power turbine then the torque increases too and fuel consumption will decreases also. Look at the G.T.E.( turbofan ) turbine stages.
Let me be the first to say this is an extremely well though out and assembled synopsis of the turbine car program - thanks Steve for doing this right!
Thanks, Mark! Coming from someone who drove one of the "user" cars, that means a lot.
well said, i was thinking the same thing... and we have a similar last name , so i thought i should say something...and i have a cousin mark...
"The engine can run on virtually anything with combustible properties and "Chrysler claimed the turbine could gulp everything from peanut oil to Chanel No. 5." The President of Mexico tested this theory by running one of the first cars-successfully-on tequila, after Chrysler engineers confirmed that the car would operate successfully. No air/fuel adjustments are required to switch from one fuel type to another and the only evidence of which fuel was used is the odor of the exhaust. "
I remember these as a kid, they said one man at the junkyard cried as he had to crush them up.
I interviewed one of the men who was there and he said several of them were crying. Very sad.
Love Canal I would have quit. No Mopar deserves to be crushed..
@@thomaslance1082 Couldn't they just have bought them as Scrap and taken them home?
@@stevelehto Sad for their sorrow, but somehow comforting to know, that emotions ran high ! Truely a HORRIBLE act of destruction... :-(
Uncle had a Plymouth dealership and had a turbine for a while, got to ride in it when I was 8 years old, will never forget it.
A former co-worker of mine was part of the test program. At the time, he was a traveling salesman. He said the car ran exceptionally smooth and he had few if any problems with it. He would have to meet with the test engineers periodically for them to take test readings of the engine. Overall he was impressed with the car while he had it.
I always remember the first time I learned of the turbine car, I was in a customer's house working on the furnace and saw an auto magazine in the basement with one on the cover in the late 80s. That customer also had a Cord in his garage along with a remote control lawn mower he put together, another reason to remember it. Thanks for the great stories. 😁
Al Bradshaw was also one of the district managers who was involved in the turbine project when the fleet was loaned to consumers. He had quite a few stories of mishaps. He was also instrumental in getting the St Louis museum car up and running. For many years he managed the Chrysler Training Center in St Louis. Before going to work for Chrysler, he was involved with the first jet powered land speed record car, the flying caduceus.
i swear if i had been there and they let me have one of these for test driving..when they came to call it back it would have mysteriously disappeared...lol
Exactly. Jay Leno has one, and there is only one other in private hands. Had I been there to test them, mine would have "mysteriously disappeared in a boating accident over the Mariannas Trench"!
Great documentary.You never see interesting stuff like this on TV.
so if i'm hearing you right, big oil and the government even in the 70's forced them to shut down due to restrictions and regulations on what types of fuels could be used. So much for letting the public speak with their money and letting a product flop or take off rather than stifling inventive processes because you or your company didn't come up with the idea first. Great vid btw, nicely done.
Still have the Turbine car literature I picked up at the North Way Mall when the car was on display and filled out a card for a chance to have one of these cars to use !
Thanks Steve, I truly appreciate the knowledge you have shared with me today
Never knew about all the different generations. Good stuff, this.
Thanks for your time in posting as history should never be lost well done video from start to end
Let us have a moment of silence for the lost turbines and for the members of the program who have past on.
Amen
I got to see the late model one run at Indy back in the 80's, but had NO idea how early this program started.
I was really into cars and following racing in my youth. This went completely under my radar.
Just like the Tucker the Chrysler turbine always made me think and feel, what if and what these cars would have been today, thank you for the video Steve👍
Jay Leno drives his around the LosAngles area. It sounds like a Vacuum Cleaner.
I would love to have one them Chrysler Turbine cars, DAMMIT!!!
I meant to mention, put a GOD DAMN HEMI IN IT, WTH!!!
Great work, Steve... Thank you for this fantastic compilation of American automotive history..
EXCELLENT FILM! Covers all aspects of the Chrysler turbine program, before and after the 1963 models lent to consumers for testing. Thank you so much for posting!!! :)
Great video! I ran with a bunch of guys in high school who if I must say, were pretty car savvy. The father of one guy was some kind of bigwig with Chrysler when those bronze cars came out and for some reason, he had one of them for a few weeks. Now with 'boys being boys' and Jim's folks being out one evening, well, the car got a few extra miles that night. Quite honestly, none of us were impressed. No real power, at least no the "put you through the back of your seat" we expected (wanted). It was unique and it did have that turbine whine, but we were a lot more excited about the big block Charger he brought home a couple of years later and then there was that GTX - nice.
Thanks ,Jay. I was 15 when this car debuted and had dreams of having one. Had almost forgotten it. Amazing stuff.
My buddy's family was chosen to get one of these Turbine Cars for consumer testing. I got to ride in it many times. It was really cool to ride in, the interior was really "space age" for that time period. I loved the copper color, it really stood out from the other cars on the road. To this day, I'm still partial to that color and have had similarly colored motorcycles and cars. The turbine ran really smooth and sounded unlike anything on the road. I remember my buddy's father balancing a nickel on the engine as he revved it up. The only downside was that, even for that time period, it was a real dog when it came to acceleration. It rode super smooth but it seemed to take forever to get up to freeway speed. My buddy's dad was so impressed with the way the car looked and ran, he bought a new fully optioned 1965 Dodge Monaco with a 413 V8. It didn't ride as smooth as the Turbine Car, but that 413 would run rings around it and most other cars of that time.
Very well told thanks!
I have seen the one at the Gilmore Car Museum. It's really neat to be able to get so close to automotive history.
I would have loved to have had a Turbine car . I guess because it could be run on cheaper fuels , the Oil Companies won't let it be made .
Thanks for sharing this iconic piece of history !!!
Now one of those would be a good car for your collection ;-) I used to work for a power gen turbine company and was the process owner for the turbine blade moment weight program. Good times!
Amazing Mid 20 century technology , and we think we use advance engineering now days ..
this was back when America could do anything
But Britain did it first.....Rover developed the jet during WWII and were the first to apply it to a car
@@damny0utoobe I know this is an old comment but its still pretty short sighted. We have much more regulation to consider today especially when it comes to cars. Turbines do indeed have a different operating and peak efficiency envelops than ICE engines but to say they couldn't have been viable espeically if they had been freer to use non-traditional fuels and other technologies is a bit of an overstatement. Even piston engines struggled to meat the requirements of the time much less the ones in place today. This experiement didnt fail on its own right but rather it failed to beat piston engines on their home field while playign by rules set by government, other mfg and interests such as oil companies.
Before I even saw your name, I new your voice and yup it's Steve Lehto. Very rare car. I see the model on the shelf behind you in your law videos.
Iirc, after the turbine engine program was ended, a company bought everything from Chrysler and continued the development of the turbine and it made its way into the m1 battle tank.
i saw one in a Dodge dealer in Wichita , KS. in 1964
Great video I have seen the turbine car at work very cool even today
Rover cars here in the UK built a prototype gas turbine car I believe. They're just so different I'd love to just have a drive in one. I remember buying a Honda CBX 6 cylinder motorcycle back in the 80's. Nearest thing to turbine like power.
Fantastic piece! Thank you so much, Steve!
I am reading your book now, and its a fascinating history!
HI Steve, I drove one of the turbine car in the Bronx. Have you ever seen the 1956 thunderbird turbine car? I later went into the USAF and helped build the green monster for Art Arfons and jet cars of California. The last turbine T-Bird was destroyed by accident at the Ford museum.
My younger brother and I waited in line nearly three hours to get a ride in one of those turbine bronze cars at the New York Worlds Fair.
Thanks Steve A really great and informative video
I remember seeing one of these at church one Sunday (upstate NY) when I was a kid. I also remember a steam powered vehicle at church one day - I think it may have been a Studebaker. Sightings like this kept church interesting...
I met someone who had one on loan from Chrysler. It had been returned to Chrysler by that time, but he said that it was a wonderful car.
Just wanna say, amazing video
What a great video! ...especially as a companion to Steve Lehto's superb book.
Thank you for another excellent video!
Excellent video, Steve. It's easy for some to think there were dark, hidden forces that killed a promising thing. As usual, the truth is more complex. Gas turbines were tried a number of times. They seemed like a really cool idea at the time, at least as pitched in media such as Popular Science at the time. They had major advantages, but big downsides as well, some of which you mentioned. One thing not mentioned is that, whereas the pulsed nature of the combustion in a piston engine means that it can efficiently get rid of most of its waste heat straight out the exhaust pipe, engines like turbines and steam engines require heat exchangers to get rid of a bigger load of waste heat. Combine this with the high internal temperatures (requiring expensive materials), and the high fuel consumption at idle, and a few other things, and you have something that just didn't pan out in the end. Turbines were, in fact, tried in trucks and buses for a while, but just didn't catch on.
Steve, being in the entertainment industry as well as being into technology in general and cars (an interesting combination that once had its epicenter arguably in Detroit), you may be interested in an observation I'll make. Thinking of this, I also think of a couple of other technologies in audio engineering that looked promising at the time. Those were the radial tonearm and the crossfield tape head. The first of these was a bit like the gas turbine in having some obvious advantages, but it was difficult to make a tonearm go sideways across a disc without introducing noise and vibration. The crossfield head worked fine AFAIK, but only helped performance significantly for slow tape speeds on tapes that weren't that thin-a combination that wasn't getting used much. I've owned devices of both types. They were in a Rabco ST-4 and a Tandberg 3600XD. My memories of both products are not especially favorable. Of course, ultimately digital technology soon made all this pretty much irrelevant (one thing being that, although digital used tape at the time, it did not use bias, so there was obviously no question of how best to apply it).
You're wrong. The only reason we don't have cars using this technology today is the federal government and overbearing regulatory overhead.
I was promised flying cars by 2020, but I can't even have a turbine powered road car.
Thank you for making this video about such an amazing car. I only found out about it today, from an Australian TV show called Classic Resto's.
After that, I went on TH-cam to find more information.
I just came from watching Jay Leno's Garage's episode about this car.
While it's a shame that it was ultimately a commercial failure, it's also an amazing glimpse into what might have been, and it was ahead of it's time.
I'm glad to see some examples were preserved, so that it doesn't slip into absolute obscurity.
Moreover, being able to watch and hear a survivor being started and driven by Jay was great!
Excellent video! I am fascinated with these cars. I was born and raised in Pontiac Michigan. My parents and grandparents worked for General Motors, ironically my uncle currently works security in the building where at least one of the cars is housed in Auburn Hills Michigan. I am a car collector myself, I currently have 9 registered and insured cars. I would like to get a copy of your book so I can learn even more about them. I saw one of these cars at the Henry Ford Museum years ago. I currently live in Atlanta, a long way from Woodward Avenue! Next time I'm in Michigan I am going to visit one of these cars. What is the best way to get a copy of your book? It's hard to think about those cars being crushed and burned.
I have books I can sign and send at a decent discount. Email me at steve@lehtoslaw.com if you want one.
Very well done documentary! Especially with today's Technology and Engine Management Systems, a Turbine powered Car is entirely doable......
IF today's brightest Minds would worry LESS about "safe spaces", PC and being Butthurt about EVERYTHING - and actually WORK and do research with real diligence... We CAN have cars like this, with High Performance, Efficiency, and Earth friendly too!
Great! Thank you for this (and for the book you've written)
This is one of my favorite cars in American automotive history. I'm definitely going to need to make a trip to one of those museums.
Excellent Documentary. The only thing missing is an Audio Clip of the "Whoosh" sound rather than the brief mention. The sound was a pretty big issue for some.
Great story. Chrysler won the army competition for the new main battle tank in the 1970s The M1 Abrams used an Automotive Gas Turbine (AGT) for power which was a unique and revolutionary concept. I'm sure the developments you described played a large part. The tank and its turbine power have been a great success.
Absolutely a great story and history lesson! Very well done Steve!
Great job on this video synopsis for the Legendary Chrysler Turbine Cars.
If only Chrysler and the designers had realized that Turbine Engines are most efficient at 98% rpm and above they wouldn’t have coupled it to a transmission but instead a generator that powered an electric drivetrain the performance and possibly the fuel economy would have been much better.
Today several companies have developed and are continuing to refine “Microturbine Range Extenders” for electric cars. In my opinion this is a better solution than pure Electric Vehicles or Hybrids that utilize small gasoline or Diesel engines to extend their range.
Microturbine Generators are much lighter, only have a few moving parts, DO NOT have lubrication or cooling systems or require regular maintenance. They can be run on almost any currently available fuel without modifications, are extremely efficient, DO NOT require any exhaust gas treatment of any kind (and that is from the US EPA) and have projected lifetimes of 15,000 hours (I had a company truck that had 256,000 miles with less than 6,000 hours on the clock) a properly designed “Range Extender Package” could “easily” be transferred from one EV to another if desired.
These units have more than enough capacity to power the EV while recharging the batteries before switching off when not needed.
Great job!
I saw one of these in the year 1964 or 65, at Carlisle PA. I was a student at Dickinson College at the time. I don't know who owned it, but I vaguely remember that someone I knew got to ride in it. Wasn't there also a turbine powered car at the INDY 500? I remember that it was winning until the very end, when something broke, and it coasted to a stop. I think they were banned after that, from the race. I don't know if I have my facts straight on that, or not.
+nidurnevets As I recall, Andy Granatelli was a big promotor of the turbine powered car at Indy. The first year was 1967 I think, and his driver kept the car in first place for many laps until close to the end when there was a flame-out with no way to restart. It was a 4-wheel driver car too, and was able to make the whole race on only 2 pit stops. After that race, the US Auto Club decided that the next year, they would limit the intake of the turbine to 15 square inches. So Granatelll redesigned the turbine as a smaller 2-wheel drive version, wedge-shaped for les air resistance and again led most of the race that next year, but as I recall a gear box problem came up towards the end of the race, so again he didn't win.
Then after that, the U.S. Auto Club made the outrageous decision to outlaw turbine engines altogether, claiming that "the fans expect to hear the roar of engines". Because of that decision, I never again watched an Indy 500 race.
+bodryn Yes, turbines ran at Indy for two years. Did pretty well but dropped out for non-turbine problems.
I remember the turbine car at Indy. I think there were a number of reasons they banned them. Another car engine I remember is the Wankel engine, if I am spelling that right. My wife had an old Mazda with that type of engine. It seemed to be a reliable engine, but they don't make them anymore as far as I know.
Im 75 years in age and I remember this beautiful car. That body was a KILLER of all KILLERS. Notice that smooth roofline. Even if the turbine engine would not make it, why didn"t Chrysler install a V8 piston engine, like the 383 engine. They would have sold a s@#$ load of cars back then. That body spoke for itself! When I lived in LA, I did go to see it up close and today, 5-25-2022 it still bring memories of how it looks in person.
I had a ride in one in 1967 when I was in college and Chrysler visited our campus. We got on the open road and the driver stomped on it. The engine spooled up somewhat slowly but the acceleration was a steady push up to 90 and it seemed that it would have continued for quite a while!
The EPA emissions test (at the 10:00 mark) were restricted to fuels that would make the turbine look as bad as possible. Why was that? Influence from Ford and GM. They had previously thought that the turbine was advertising gimmick that would never sell to the public. Once the Gen-3 engine was running, it was obvious that it could eventually be improved enough to smooth out the rough spots. There were two problems for Ford and GM. First Chrysler was WAY ahead of them on small turbine development. And second, most piston engines would wear out at 250,000 miles, and these turbines showed every indication that they could last over a million miles. This meant that people wouldn't buy as many cars as frequently. It's not hard to do the math. When there is an oil crisis that threatens Americas independence from foreign interests, here was an engine that could run on vegetable oil, or bio-diesel...
Sounds like yet another fascinating technology that could have been a serious alternative to both gas-piston, hybrid and battery-electric cars yet fucked by government intervention and red tape...
I recall watching a video, some years ago, that showed GM's turbine powered car. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the other automakers also have had turbine powered projects. As for the body design, I guess it was one of Ghia's last designs before being purchased by Ford. Then Ghia gave us the Mustang II and the Granada. Gag!!
GM's program was nowhere near as involved as Chrysler's. And the design of the car was done in house by Elwood Engel. Ghia merely built the cars.
I have seen two videos done by "Urban Explorers" who recently found a specially modified one in an abandoned building. I will get the links for you... be back in a little while...Josh and RnK saw it.... they called it a jet engine car... might not be the same thing...
i remember as a kid, following the turbine car , and dreaming, in popular science, but never learned the details of its disappearance. in those days my father was one of chrysler's corporate lawyers. years later, as my father was finishing his race, he told me he had had a chance to have one of the tester cars, but he wasn't into fancy cars(i grew up with valients, (and the slant six) so close, and yet so far!
My parents lived in Columbus Oh in the 60's when Chrysler had given one to a Columbus resident, my dad told me about seeing it around town and hearing it's unique sound.
My dad, Jerry Mills, worked for Chrysler. In the 60s, he as assigned to take one of those turbine cars to NYC for the Today Show. On TV, he fueled it with $5000 worth of Chanel #5, plus a bottle of whiskey. He removed one of the front wheels, because Chrysler also wanted to promote their torsion bar suspension. For the rest of the day, he drove around Manhattan on 3 wheels. Alas, I have no pictures from that day.
im glad jay leno is taking care of one
Great work @Steve Lehto
the one that I saw had no steering wheel
...it employed a "Joystick" in the center console that replaced the 'Stickshift' to go forward, left, right, and pull back for brakes
...it had a button in the middle for reverse
...My version of the 'turbine' was STEAM (superheated)
...Today I would involve some 'electrolysis' (Plasma) system
Looks like Wernher Von Braun at 1:02. I wasn't aware he was involved with the turbine car. But the time line is accurate as he was developing rockets for NASA in the 1960's.
That is W. Von Braun but the pic is at Huntsville where Chrysler's missile division was located. I am not sure what he and Huebner were working on in that picture but I bet they talked about rockets and turbines. I found that picture in a collection of Huebner's papers.
Very cool. I'm 42 and outside of the basics like Shuttle program and that we landed people on the moon I am just really learning about the space program in depth. I only learned about Von Braun and his history within the last year or so. It would make sense that he was involved in the turbine car. Back then....who else better to consult? LOL
Awesome! Now I've got to spend Saturday watching all these great car vids! You should make a play list- these are sort of hiding amongst the less popular(but good) law vids.
Thanks Steve, Love your show
Awesome vidio !!!
The guy in the middle of the photo at 1:00 was Dr. Werner von Braun, who designed the V-2 and Saturn V rockets.
He didn't design the Saturn V rocket, that's a common myth.
As a matter of fact his vision for the Saturn V was rejected by NASA in favor of a configuration thought up by a young engineer from Chance-Vought, his idea of landing one giant rocket on the moon wasn't feasible at the time.
6:47 look at that space age looking console!!!! This thing is so cool!!!!!
Is the model Turbine car behind you the same model spoken of in this video . where did you get it ?
I was aware of the car but not of the PROGRAM , the pictures of other turbine models astounded me . Very cool
Yes. The models are commercially available.
G.M. Had Astro tractors with Turbines hauling bodies from Fischer body to final assembly my step dad drove in Flint Mich.
Well done mini-doc
steve i know this is a old vid.and you have extended knowledge on these.....but for the short time of this...it was great....i didnt know chrysler put them in early 70s satillites and later volaries...and the 1 looks like part cordoba or the dodge magnum 78..79..maby...but thank you
What kind of transmission did they use? I've recently had the idea of using a small turbine engine to power an electric motor which would power your wheels. That would give you the acceleration and speed that everyone loves about the Teslas, but you would have a much longer range than a Tesla.
A modified torqueflite. It was not directly connected to the turbine. The turbine had a fan that blasted air over another fan which was the input for the transmission.
Steve Lehto Neat! Do you happen to have a link to any drawings or demonstration videos? That sounds like a really interesting design.
Back when reliability was still a consideration, or well anytime up to the mid 2010s
Saw one parked in the lot in front of the E-Quad, Engineering Quadrangle, at Princeton when I was an undergraduate there. That would have been 1964-1967.
what happened to the one in Bill Harrah's Auto Collection?
did holiday inn or his son sell it?
The Harrah's Turbine was sold to Tom Monaghan. Monaghan later sold it to a car collector named Frank Kleptz. While he owned it, he got it running and the car is currently owned by his son (Frank passed away a few years ago.)
Up for sale right now.
It has been sold already. It actually sold before most of the news outlets heard it was for sale.
@@stevelehto I'd believe that
The movie lively set featured Casey with his TURBINE RACE CAR,And my crush Pamela Tiffin❤
Great job Steve I hope you do more like this
Well done. Thank you.
I would have done cogeneration with an electric motor on each wheel. It might work well as a Hybrid system with a big enough battery. BMW did experiments with recovering heat energy from the exhaust. Why did they scrap the motor? Might've made a good stationary generator.
Sometimes one thinks good ideas or good products are not allowed in US, but when giving it reflection more nations appear to be the same.
Good info, very interesting
Very interesting stuff !
I assume they destroyed the others as well. I like the Coronets (1967 with R/T hood and '73?) and that last gen Imperial (1983?).
One of the men in the photo about Chrysler getting top scientists and engineers together is a photo of Wernher von Braun (NASA moon guy).
Okay. Was Werner Von Braun part of Huebner's turbine development team?
Well hell, I shoulda figured the government had a hand in putting a fork in the turbine car. Unfortunately it's early demise makes more sense to me now, after learning about our wonderful governments testing procedures. Of course they wouldn't consider making adjustments to their testing procedure, to account for a new and possibly up and coming propulsion system. Wouldn't wanna screw up what the oil companies had going...
When I was in elementary school, a neighbor in our small village had one of these.
If you knew the rough date or the name of the town, we can look it up and get the rest of the info. The exact dates, the name of the person with the car, which car it was and so on.
@@stevelehto, look at Sunnyvale Ca, I'm guessing
67 or 68. I VAGUELY remember one that the father
of a friend of mine, had one. I don't know if it was
someone showing him, or he was one of the few.
Last name, Boyer.
steve
I remember the neighbor had one. This was 1963. It had bronze metallic paint.
Well I'd like to say seeing a turbine car is a rare sight. But I remeber seeing Frank Kleptz's car alot in the late 90s early 2000. Living in Terre Haute does have its advantages sometimes. Unfortunately Frank passed and I don't see it as much as I use to around town.
Very good video sir
the problem with the G.T.E (turboshaft/turboprop) lacking of torque is that it has only 1 stage of split shaft turbine, if it has 2 to 3 stages of free power turbine then the torque increases too and fuel consumption will decreases also. Look at the G.T.E.( turbofan ) turbine stages.