From decades of leisure sailing a Tiger at home and at Wildwind, some tips: - with the self tacking jib, the Tiger can be sailed single-handed as easily as a jibless cat, even in strong winds - BUT: be sure there is someone to help you when you capsize. Getting a Tiger up alone is tricky, at least use a bag and TEST if it works. I have no issue being brave at Wildwind, where the rescue is there in 1 minute. - Train getting on the boat from the water, the hulls are rather high, it is not as trivial lile a Hobie 16. Knowing that it works increases your confidence, with confidence you get less in panic in tight situations and that means LESS capsizes. My method toi get up: The crew trapeze is at the front beam, then you can grab it when you are swimming in the usual corner of hull and front beam. If the boat is still making way, you can push yourself off of the daggerboard. I grab the trapeze handle and pull myself up, so that I can get a foot in the traverse bar of the dolphin striker. So can press my shoulders on the hull- Then I turn on the back, and push myself further up. doing it backwards avoids ugly holes in the hull from the trapeze hook. You can also use the spinnaker boom as footrest. - Trim the Tiger FAR forward. Try to get the complete round of the bow submerged. Especially in light winds try to get the complete stern plate out of the water. It is so nice when the gurgling stops... That can mean the helm is behind the beam, and the crew is stretched out on the hull, holding on to the spreader wires. At least check from time to time that the deck is horizontal (look at the leeside hull). A Tiger dragging its heels and pointing in the air looks - unelegant. - You can push the Tiger VERY hard. When you are fast and are confident you have full control, you can dig the bow in til just a few cm stay out. Even a few cm underwater for a moment work out, at speed the water just parts and does not converge over the deck. The important term is "under control". - I want to have the mainsheet cleat adjusted at an angle that it only cleats when I explicitly want it to, that I have to pull up to belay it. Then in the moment I put pressure on the mainsheet, it is out of the cleat and I can play it, react to gusts, all is happening within a few cm. That saved me countless capsizes. There is nothing worse when you are full blast, in the trapeze and you think "I have to sheet ouf - NOW!" and find first you have to bend down til the sheet is on the deck before it uncleats, or you have to let it slack to whip the sheet out of the cleat. That half second delay is enough for a capsize. Otherwise sheeting out 2 cms would have been enough. In high winds, I keep the mainsheet uncleated all the time (except under spinnaker, of course). What I am happy about is that when I need it, I can let the sheet slip through my fingers and arrest it again, to pull it back in again. When you have to release it completely, that you lose all power, and then need ages to haul the meters of sheet back in, you tend to be reluctant to play the sheet -> capsize. So get power in your fingers. - Another thing I think adds to control - learn to move your body while your hands maintain position. Get your body to learn that this is possible. Dance around your hands. With that (when that is automatic) you can shift your position on the boat without changing the trim, neither affecting rudder nor sheet, so that it is not only you who wanders around on the boat, the boat wanders around randomly under you, making you unsafe. - The universal joint of the tiller extension tends to have some play, adjust it so that the play is as small as possible. Especially under spinnaker that play is annoying. You steer by the millimeter, a tiny bit up, a tiny bit down. When with each reversal of direction you have one cm play to overcome before something happens, that reduces the exactness enormously - My impression is that under spinnaker you really should keep the wind dead at 90 degrees to the boat to get optimum performance downwind. Too far down - you get too slow, too far up - you are fast, but lose masse amounts of depth. I am perverse enough to have a windex at the top of the mast (no other cat has that), and where I am really not the fastest, downwind our 20 year old Tiger is a handful. At least keep an extra telltale at the shroud above you and sit under it so that you can keep that in sight as constant check.
To say it - Joe is by far the better sailor. But I think I am able to see and formulate things that others do not even notice, as the good ones just do it instinctively. This whole sermon is all based on personal experience - where something went wrong and the above "trick" avoided it. .
Thanks for your wonderful and useful incite into the Hobie Tiger. Started out on H14s in S’Africa and got a taste of The Tiger in Hongkers, c. 2006. Now in Saffa/Sandgroper Sailing Heaven, WA, and am convinced that a Tiger is for me, even though they’re a bit rare(!) in these parts - Pertherts flash their cash on Nacra & (local boys) Windrush - too many $$$$ for me though. But, think I found my Tiger…in good condition, too. Thanks again for your advice and awesome channel!
Thanks very much! Yes, the Tiger sounds like the best way in! There should be a few in Australia, there always used to be a strong Aussie contingent at the worlds.
I upgraded from a Dart 18 to a Tiger. In some ways the Tiger is easier to sail, tacks better due to centre boards, can be de powered if necessary, jib set and forget - most of the time. The Tiger is very strong and is difficult to break ! A lovely well balanced cat. (I don't sail anymore due to illness, but keep some great Tiger memories) Mike Footer
@@JoyriderTV It work well for solo, but also with beginners and light crew, it's also mandatory for long cruise, avoiding to get too much exhausted and exposed in rough sea , but of course not class legal for F18, but they can be removed in like 10 minutes.
@@JoyriderTV Also sometime when i want to depower a bit more in 20k+ knot, i remove the top main sail batten, losing some mainsail area. I like also sailing the tiger with 4 onboard, but it's important to always stay with two hull in the water avoiding putting too much stress on the platform. I tried one hull one time with like 300kg on the platform but's it's really rough for the Tiger.
@@jean-baptisteleguennec817 Sounds great! I wouldn't be so keen on removing the top batten - if it's to depower then it's going to be windy which will mean that the top of your sail will be flapping a lot which could cause damage - i prefer to use a very stiff batten which flattens the sail. Yes, careful overloading the boat too much!!!
Hi Joseph, thanks for the great review. If one was interested in doing some solo cruising do you think it would be possible to add slab reefing to the mainsail?
Joseph, thanks for that insight. Screening the market here right now. Any advice what to specifically look for on 2nd hand boats in the 2001/2002 range?
The Tiger is a bit slower than the 16, but way more stable, more docile. Everything happens a little slower, it bites not so instantaneously as a 16 can. But all is a little bit larger, heavier, needs more power. Including the uprighting. With the self-tacker you have not so much to fiddle about with the jib like on the 16. And a TIger just goes round - where tacking a 16 is always a handful. So taking someone inexperienced along is somewhat easier, the jib does its job alone. When you think you have opportunities to go out with 3-4 people, that is no problem for the Tiger, it has enough volume. The 16 is more robust in some ways - so when you drag the boat on the sand or even on pebbles, that is not so much a problem on the 16, only the keel line needs care, easy to repair, but on the Tiger you would quickly ruin the whole bottom of the hull. See my comment above for some more tips from a hobby sailor..
@@feedingravens is the Tiger really slower? It has lower Portsmouth Yardstick than H16 so should be faster in the competition. Maybe 16 can run in heavier wind conditions than Tiger?
@@oskarsonix the Tiger is much quicker around a course upwind and downwind. The 16 however after some extensive testing, has a higher max speed on a double trapeze broad reach
Hi. Any advice or reviews on the Hobie 17 with just the main? Sounds like there’s a sport version with a jib? Just looking for a fun relatively fast boat that can still sail up wind for two people without trapezes.
Yeah, I was kinda surprised to see a Tiger on Sand Key @ the F-18 worlds myself. I only saw one of them though. DialdN, which is your boat of choice? And where are you from? If memory serves me, there are 13 countries represented? Pretty amazing to see how much catamaran technology has changed since the time I sailed my Prindle 18, back in the 1990s. Back when I got and rebuilt my Prindle I was very impressed with it, having come from Hobie 14, Hobie 16 and G-Cat. 🤣 I was kinda smokin everyone on the beach unless a Prindle 19 showed up. Man, I wanted one 😐. I remember when the Tiger came out and wished my Prindle had the spinnaker setup. The dagger boards of the symmetrical hulls were, to me, a SERIOUS drawback to owning the type. I always loved being able to rush the beach, full tilt, to drop off and pick up the the next rider(s). Here on the west coast of Florida the water is pretty shallow, especially on the intercoastal, made me appreciate my Prindle 18 all the more, even though it wasn't THE fastest cat out there, quite often. I never did get around to fitting my cat with a spinnaker, sadly 😔, but meh, I always had a great time on it anyway. It cost me $350 to buy it and I can't remember now how much money I spent on polyester resin, 1808 biaxial fiberglass, woven roving and chopped strand mat for the rebuild that took 4 or 5 months to complete but it was all worth it 👌 😉 for sure 👍 😀. My nearly half home made Prindle was awesome! After the first seatrial, which something of a disaster, taking on water in the hulls. I had to flip her over again and lay on a couple more layers of glass. After that I had no problems, even being on the water 10 or 12 hours, island hoping 😃. Had to separate the mast from the boat and swim for a couple hours, pulling it all back to shore 😆 what a WORKOUT it was...🥴🥵. That was seatrial #1. The swim started @ 4pm and I was ashore @ 6pm...ROUGH 🥵 Anyway, would be cool to see your boat out on Sand Key DialdN, whats your number(s)(sail #, entry #)?
It seems that even if you have the latest design, it wont be long until something faster or more desirable will come along - these days more than ever.
Joseph, I can't seem to find a way to DM you... Have you any experience with Prindle catamarans? I bought a 16 and can't seem to find any good videos on the proper rigging. John Strong
@@JoyriderTV Nothing to be sorry about. The way you speak is perfect when giving clear and concise instructions outdoors to a group. It is just shaking me when I'm in YT Video couch potato modus ;-) . Cultural as well. Thanks for the hard work.
@@JoyriderTV And very good also in strong winds without the jib having this good volume, sails so well. Pity that these F18 aren't in the 3 m wide will be more fun.
From decades of leisure sailing a Tiger at home and at Wildwind, some tips:
- with the self tacking jib, the Tiger can be sailed single-handed as easily as a jibless cat, even in strong winds - BUT: be sure there is someone to help you when you capsize.
Getting a Tiger up alone is tricky, at least use a bag and TEST if it works. I have no issue being brave at Wildwind, where the rescue is there in 1 minute.
- Train getting on the boat from the water, the hulls are rather high, it is not as trivial lile a Hobie 16. Knowing that it works increases your confidence,
with confidence you get less in panic in tight situations and that means LESS capsizes.
My method toi get up: The crew trapeze is at the front beam, then you can grab it when you are swimming in the usual corner of hull and front beam.
If the boat is still making way, you can push yourself off of the daggerboard.
I grab the trapeze handle and pull myself up, so that I can get a foot in the traverse bar of the dolphin striker. So can press my shoulders on the hull-
Then I turn on the back, and push myself further up. doing it backwards avoids ugly holes in the hull from the trapeze hook. You can also use the spinnaker boom as footrest.
- Trim the Tiger FAR forward. Try to get the complete round of the bow submerged. Especially in light winds try to get the complete stern plate out of the water.
It is so nice when the gurgling stops...
That can mean the helm is behind the beam, and the crew is stretched out on the hull, holding on to the spreader wires.
At least check from time to time that the deck is horizontal (look at the leeside hull). A Tiger dragging its heels and pointing in the air looks - unelegant.
- You can push the Tiger VERY hard. When you are fast and are confident you have full control, you can dig the bow in til just a few cm stay out.
Even a few cm underwater for a moment work out, at speed the water just parts and does not converge over the deck. The important term is "under control".
- I want to have the mainsheet cleat adjusted at an angle that it only cleats when I explicitly want it to, that I have to pull up to belay it.
Then in the moment I put pressure on the mainsheet, it is out of the cleat and I can play it, react to gusts, all is happening within a few cm. That saved me countless capsizes.
There is nothing worse when you are full blast, in the trapeze and you think "I have to sheet ouf - NOW!" and find first you have to bend down til the sheet is on the deck before it uncleats,
or you have to let it slack to whip the sheet out of the cleat. That half second delay is enough for a capsize.
Otherwise sheeting out 2 cms would have been enough.
In high winds, I keep the mainsheet uncleated all the time (except under spinnaker, of course).
What I am happy about is that when I need it, I can let the sheet slip through my fingers and arrest it again, to pull it back in again.
When you have to release it completely, that you lose all power, and then need ages to haul the meters of sheet back in, you tend to be reluctant to play the sheet -> capsize.
So get power in your fingers.
- Another thing I think adds to control - learn to move your body while your hands maintain position. Get your body to learn that this is possible. Dance around your hands.
With that (when that is automatic) you can shift your position on the boat without changing the trim, neither affecting rudder nor sheet,
so that it is not only you who wanders around on the boat, the boat wanders around randomly under you, making you unsafe.
- The universal joint of the tiller extension tends to have some play, adjust it so that the play is as small as possible. Especially under spinnaker that play is annoying.
You steer by the millimeter, a tiny bit up, a tiny bit down. When with each reversal of direction you have one cm play to overcome before something happens,
that reduces the exactness enormously
- My impression is that under spinnaker you really should keep the wind dead at 90 degrees to the boat to get optimum performance downwind.
Too far down - you get too slow, too far up - you are fast, but lose masse amounts of depth. I am perverse enough to have a windex at the top of the mast (no other cat has that),
and where I am really not the fastest, downwind our 20 year old Tiger is a handful.
At least keep an extra telltale at the shroud above you and sit under it so that you can keep that in sight as constant check.
To say it - Joe is by far the better sailor. But I think I am able to see and formulate things that others do not even notice, as the good ones just do it instinctively.
This whole sermon is all based on personal experience - where something went wrong and the above "trick" avoided it. .
Thanks once again for sharing your experience, it is always helpful to hear how you have dealt with things from your experience.
Here at the F18 Worlds now. We have two Hobie Tigers in attendance. Still cool seeing them out here competing!
Nice! If there was an F18 event and I had a Tiger i'd definitely go for it - entering as the underdog - nothing to loose!
4:42 funny to see the old style with the Gennakersag on the Trampolin and the Gennakerhalyard seen swimming behind the boat. 😃
Old school!
Thanks for your wonderful and useful incite into the Hobie Tiger. Started out on H14s in S’Africa and got a taste of The Tiger in Hongkers, c. 2006. Now in Saffa/Sandgroper Sailing Heaven, WA, and am convinced that a Tiger is for me, even though they’re a bit rare(!) in these parts - Pertherts flash their cash on Nacra & (local boys) Windrush - too many $$$$ for me though. But, think I found my Tiger…in good condition, too. Thanks again for your advice and awesome channel!
Thanks very much!
Yes, the Tiger sounds like the best way in!
There should be a few in Australia, there always used to be a strong Aussie contingent at the worlds.
I upgraded from a Dart 18 to a Tiger. In some ways the Tiger is easier to sail, tacks better due to centre boards, can be de powered if necessary, jib set and forget - most of the time. The Tiger is very strong and is difficult to break ! A lovely well balanced cat. (I don't sail anymore due to illness, but keep some great Tiger memories) Mike Footer
I actually did the same when the Tiger first came out back in the 90s from Dart 18 to Tiger.
I twas certainly a great time!!!
I'am using wings on my tiger and i often go jibless with strongwinds, it's an incredible all around platform for sailing 5knot of wind to 20+
Sounds like a great solution for some solo sailing.
@@JoyriderTV It work well for solo, but also with beginners and light crew, it's also mandatory for long cruise, avoiding to get too much exhausted and exposed in rough sea , but of course not class legal for F18, but they can be removed in like 10 minutes.
@@JoyriderTV Also sometime when i want to depower a bit more in 20k+ knot, i remove the top main sail batten, losing some mainsail area. I like also sailing the tiger with 4 onboard, but it's important to always stay with two hull in the water avoiding putting too much stress on the platform. I tried one hull one time with like 300kg on the platform but's it's really rough for the Tiger.
@@jean-baptisteleguennec817 Sounds great!
I wouldn't be so keen on removing the top batten - if it's to depower then it's going to be windy which will mean that the top of your sail will be flapping a lot which could cause damage - i prefer to use a very stiff batten which flattens the sail.
Yes, careful overloading the boat too much!!!
*Thanks Joseph, Always informative.*
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks. I’m looking forward to your thoughts on the Hobie 17.
You bet!
Great stuff! What about a similar Video for the tornado?
Great suggestion! Will do!
Hi Joseph, thanks for the great review. If one was interested in doing some solo cruising do you think it would be possible to add slab reefing to the mainsail?
Yes, that certainly could be the go - there was some F18 sailors who sailed across the Atlantic with such a set-up
Joseph, thanks for that insight. Screening the market here right now. Any advice what to specifically look for on 2nd hand boats in the 2001/2002 range?
The next video (on Thursday) will go through everything that you should be looking for when buying a Tiger.
thx for this aclaration....i am searching a Hobie 16...but now i think it would be better to go for a Tiger ...
I'm glad that the video helps.
The Tiger is a bit slower than the 16, but way more stable, more docile. Everything happens a little slower, it bites not so instantaneously as a 16 can.
But all is a little bit larger, heavier, needs more power. Including the uprighting.
With the self-tacker you have not so much to fiddle about with the jib like on the 16. And a TIger just goes round - where tacking a 16 is always a handful.
So taking someone inexperienced along is somewhat easier, the jib does its job alone.
When you think you have opportunities to go out with 3-4 people, that is no problem for the Tiger, it has enough volume.
The 16 is more robust in some ways - so when you drag the boat on the sand or even on pebbles, that is not so much a problem on the 16, only the keel line needs care, easy to repair, but on the Tiger you would quickly ruin the whole bottom of the hull.
See my comment above for some more tips from a hobby sailor..
@@feedingravens is the Tiger really slower? It has lower Portsmouth Yardstick than H16 so should be faster in the competition. Maybe 16 can run in heavier wind conditions than Tiger?
@@oskarsonix the Tiger is much quicker around a course upwind and downwind. The 16 however after some extensive testing, has a higher max speed on a double trapeze broad reach
Hi. Any advice or reviews on the Hobie 17 with just the main? Sounds like there’s a sport version with a jib? Just looking for a fun relatively fast boat that can still sail up wind for two people without trapezes.
I'll talk about this in tomorrow's Q+A. It's a fine question. Thanks
I like the 18 with wings. It was just 3500$
Oh yeah, back in the day that was the real bad boy!
Hey Joseph….what would be a good deal on a Tiger these days?
I'll talk about that in this week's Q+A
Yeah, I was kinda surprised to see a Tiger on Sand Key @ the F-18 worlds myself. I only saw one of them though. DialdN, which is your boat of choice? And where are you from? If memory serves me, there are 13 countries represented? Pretty amazing to see how much catamaran technology has changed since the time I sailed my Prindle 18, back in the 1990s. Back when I got and rebuilt my Prindle I was very impressed with it, having come from Hobie 14, Hobie 16 and G-Cat. 🤣 I was kinda smokin everyone on the beach unless a Prindle 19 showed up. Man, I wanted one 😐. I remember when the Tiger came out and wished my Prindle had the spinnaker setup. The dagger boards of the symmetrical hulls were, to me, a SERIOUS drawback to owning the type. I always loved being able to rush the beach, full tilt, to drop off and pick up the the next rider(s). Here on the west coast of Florida the water is pretty shallow, especially on the intercoastal, made me appreciate my Prindle 18 all the more, even though it wasn't THE fastest cat out there, quite often. I never did get around to fitting my cat with a spinnaker, sadly 😔, but meh, I always had a great time on it anyway. It cost me $350 to buy it and I can't remember now how much money I spent on polyester resin, 1808 biaxial fiberglass, woven roving and chopped strand mat for the rebuild that took 4 or 5 months to complete but it was all worth it 👌 😉 for sure 👍 😀. My nearly half home made Prindle was awesome!
After the first seatrial, which something of a disaster, taking on water in the hulls. I had to flip her over again and lay on a couple more layers of glass. After that I had no problems, even being on the water 10 or 12 hours, island hoping 😃. Had to separate the mast from the boat and swim for a couple hours, pulling it all back to shore 😆 what a WORKOUT it was...🥴🥵. That was seatrial #1. The swim started @ 4pm and I was ashore @ 6pm...ROUGH 🥵
Anyway, would be cool to see your boat out on Sand Key DialdN, whats your number(s)(sail #, entry #)?
It seems that even if you have the latest design, it wont be long until something faster or more desirable will come along - these days more than ever.
@@JoyriderTV yeah agreed 👍 I'd like to, at least, crew a foiler once 😆 🤣
Joseph,
I can't seem to find a way to DM you...
Have you any experience with Prindle catamarans?
I bought a 16 and can't seem to find any good videos on the proper rigging.
John Strong
Hi John,
email at totaljoyrider@icloud.com
I haven't any experience with Prindles unfortunately
Interesting and informative. Thanks. Just the way you speak is a bit stressfull to me. I like the tiger too.
Sorry about my speaking - I try to speak slowly so that non-english native speakers can understand more easily
@@JoyriderTV Nothing to be sorry about. The way you speak is perfect when giving clear and concise instructions outdoors to a group. It is just shaking me when I'm in YT Video couch potato modus ;-) . Cultural as well. Thanks for the hard work.
@@franckbrunie4759 ha! Yes, I can imagine
The Tiger came from the French Alado 😊😊👍👍
Great design!!!
@@JoyriderTV And very good also in strong winds without the jib having this good volume, sails so well. Pity that these F18 aren't in the 3 m wide will be more fun.
I have some new old stock cams for sale!
Great stuff, i reckon you should post on FB, you'll certainly get some interest
what about the A cat ??????
Unfortunately I don't have any experience with the A-Cat so I couldn't give too much accurate info on that.
Say something about new brother.. wild cat, that's the fastest ever cat on flat water...even polish scorpion is not fast enough on flat water
Yes, apart from the daggerboard issue, the Wildcat was a great replacement/upgrade
GET A NACRA...
A very good alternative of course.