Atheist Aron Ra “Christian ethics vs. Secular ethics”
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
- The "Give Me An Answer" ministry began as an outgrowth of the dialogues Cliffe Knechtle has had with students on various university campuses throughout the United States. These universities include the University of Maine, Harvard, MIT, University of Florida, University of Texas, University of Wisconsin, University of Minnesota, University of California Los Angeles, University of California San Diego, Berkeley, Stanford, University of Hawaii and the University of Washington. Cliffe spoke on these campuses in front of the Student Union or Library at noon for five to ten minutes. At the close of his initial remarks, he'd open up the time for questions and answers, which usually turned into a two to four hour dialogue with students. His crowd size ranged from 25 - 500 students at a time, and between classes, new students would join the discussion. This is an extremely effective way to reach a large number of university students with the Gospel of Christ.
#Evidence #Christianity #Jesus #apologetics
Aron Ra gets T-R-I-G-G-E-R-E-D whenever Cliff talks. You can't tell me it's not a spiritual battle.
That's what I was also having in mind! It's like you could see the demon inside of him not wanting to accept Christ and blabbering out those opposing and harshful words.
@@exerpachuau5486lol you religious are silly, we are tired of your bs of faith without evidence
exactly!!! Jesus is King
It's because he's frustrated by their stupidity
@@devontolly1596thank you😂😂
I have yet to see Aron speak in “debate”. Only “arguing” while drinking alcohol. It is sad.
How do you know when someone cannot defend their point of view? They attack and talk louder, so only they can be heard.
So true I dated a girl n when we have a argument I can't get one word in
@@Dj87691they’re emotional
@@jasongilder22constant misrepresentation would make anyone emotional. Imagine repeating the same answer 5 times, hearing the same question begged for without any reason or logic, having to refute claims that can’t possibly be valid or true or relevant.
As a non-believer, I've always had great respect for both of you, Cliffe and Stuart. Your arguments are often compelling, and you are both well spoken and charismatic. I feel as though Stuart is genuinely listening to and interacting with non-believers and our objections, whereas sometimes I feel as though Cliffe is more reciting his long-established and pre-rehearsed apologetics, without ever calibrating to (or even acknowledging, much less debating) the very specific objections that are being given. It feels like a pre-recorded sermon or powerpoint, rather than a genuine, in-the-moment conversation.
I love you both so much for putting out videos like this. We need more debates like this. I hope to have the honor of debating you someday, and I hope that I would do it with more respect and tact than Aron did.
any specific objections you can name ? because, I would agree that Cliffe is sometimes a bit rusty, but I would also argue that the "specific objections" are but misunderstanding of well established arguments every apologist is using.
Pls read this with a humble heart and believe in the Gospel. I pray that God gives you light.
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
I Corinthians 6:9-10 NKJV
bible.com/bible/114/1co.6.9-10.NKJV
What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one.” “Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit”; “The poison of asps is under their lips”; “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.” Destruction and misery are in their ways; And the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:9-14, 16-20 NKJV
bible.com/bible/114/rom.3.9-20.NKJV
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
I Corinthians 1:18-20
But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;
I Corinthians 1:27 NKJV
bible.com/bible/114/1co.1.27.NKJV
And Jesusbsaid to them, “Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?” ( Thus He declared all foods clean.) And He was saying, “That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man.”
Mark 7:18-23 NASB
bible.com/bible/100/mrk.7.18-23.NASB
But there is hope:
and Jesus saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”
Mark 1:15 NKJV
bible.com/bible/114/mrk.1.15.NKJV
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Romans 3:21-23, 25-26 NKJV
bible.com/bible/114/rom.3.21-26.NKJV
Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name (Jesus) under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Acts 4:12 NKJV
bible.com/bible/114/act.4.12.NKJV
@@repentandfollowjesus3474 Instead of babbling on and on, try thinking for a change.
@@dwendt44 Have you considered that he probably came to the conclusion by way of thought or experience? No? You shouldn't just assume that he's not put thought into his conclusion.
@@repentandfollowjesus3474 you don’t choose to believe in something you don’t believe in. You’re either convinced or you’re not.
Just like falling in love. You didn’t choose to fall in love with said person, it just happened.
Aron spouts a lot of absolute statements as if there is no other way to interpret them. He also interrupts Cliffe with a statement and expects him to drop everything and respond, at that rate, only Aron would get what he wants the world to hear across, and that’s completely immature and disrespectful, especially in an argument.
I haven't watched it yet, but I watched another debate with all three of these men, and Aron was literally screaming at them like a toddler getting his favorite toy thrown away.. anyway, I'll be watching for that again lol
literally here 24:24 he’s just saying over and over that no one on earth thinks differently than him
@@romanmay2867 I think we can all agree that he's a very open minded person. (pls note that was sarcasm lol). But honestly, pride blinds so many people and it's so sad to see. Honestly we just gotta pray
I'm struggling so hard through this. Aron doesn't have an argument, he just keeps saying what cliffe and stu are saying is a lie but doesn't back it up. He just says he's right.
He’s a narcissist, and emotionally abusive. It’s obvious.
@@Jaryism He's pathologically obsessed and angry at something that he doesn't even believe exists.
He was very angry, ranting , insulting, etc.
For something that doesn't exist, God sure has Aron Ra's undivided attention.
@@ThermaL-ty7bw No I will never be. It takes a special kind of imbecile to be an Atheist and go around lying to people, making Epistemological statements that are wholly unsupportable.
@@robinrobyn1714well the fact that Aron constantly drinks, doesn't help...
@@GraceAlone614 True
Aron refuses to let anyone speak
Good, Cliffe and Stuart just talk nonsense anyway.
@@PortlandMan Another Aron Follower folks. One who Believes the world of himself and only listens to himself.
Because otherwise we would just hear incoherent rambling from Cliff or Stuart instead of focusing on the topic.
Aron has heard all the same bs rambling a bizillion times before. He interrupts people whenever they start lying or stop making sense, which is honestly pretty fair.
If they stopped talking out their ass Aron would hear them out.
People are so disgusted with Christians, they completely disregard Aron's blatant disrespect. Now if people deny what I am saying then I have lost hope in humanity
The entire time he is so bitter and angry
Sure he may be disrespectful but it doesn’t change the fact that cliffe is stupid af
I think Aron’s points were credible, but yes his behaviour was subpar and overall very rude
If serving God is 100% of Christianity, being persecuted is the other 80%.
As an Atheist, I can not stand Aron. I agree with him on this topic, but I'd spend time with Cliffe and his son any day of the week.
This was the most unprofessional debate I've ever witnessed. Cliffe has SO much patience.
I made a 5 minute debate review of this one on my channel,
thought you might would be interested in it, based on your comment.
Its aaron with the patience of all the lies cliffe spewed and tried to claim a fact
Cliff was misrepresenting Aron the entire debate
Seriously......Cliffe has the same script he's used for years......he literally doesn't Interact with Aaron he just goes to the next line of the script.....he's a complete simpleton weirdo
@John Williams truth is consistent, is only a fool that believe something came out of Nothing
Cliffe I would just like to thank you for having such patience during this debate. This man called Aron’s lack of ability to articulate himself with being disrespectful is just outstanding. I think this debate should of been cut short when cliffe was called out his name. Cliffe I commend you with how you handled this debate. Stuart you did wonderful also.
I made a 5 minute debate review of this one on my channel,
thought you might would be interested in it, based on your comment.
Cliff has no choice but to be patience. Aaron’s intelligence has cliff overwhelmed.
Cliffe appeals to scrips and cue cards, like he's been using them for years. The same dull, glib arguments based on magical man in the sky. Aron uses science.
@@sergiomerino1434 Aron is intelligent, but over tallking and interrupting is not what intellectuals do
Did you like when Cliffe was caught out in his lie about the baseball bat thing where he was speechless and totally humiliated.........did you really like that bit showing he broke one of the 10 commandments ?
Its odd how Aron goes from being quite pleasant with Stuart one moment, to cut-throat with Cliffe in the matter of seconds.
It’s not odd. It happens as soon as Cliffe starts to misrepresent Aron
@@MichaelAntonFischer Could you elaborate? honest question. How is he mis-representing him? Aron is hurling slander and insults...it veils his heart. He is truly hurting, as we all are.
@@jackdangers3292 he is constantly trying to straw man, e.g. by claiming that Arons moral system is something completely different.
@@jackdangers3292 and I completely understand Aron. I’ve been in such discussions.
If the other side is not only not listening, but actively misrepresenting what you say, an intelligent conversation is impossible.
Unfortunately calling somebody a liar, when he is lying, is considered rude. But that is exactly because religious people have enforced that picture of rudeness over centuries.
@Engineering Philosophy Wait are you saying Aaron's moral system is the same as Cliffe's? Seriously?!
I learned a long time ago if someone starts saying "no one, everybody, the whole world understands, does, believes or is" does not know what they are talking about. Aron's anger, pain, frustration and hatred for God shows through his inability to have a proper debate. He says im right and your wrong therefore he sees himself as a god thats perfect in his own eyes.
It has to be difficult always being right. Then constantly having to deal with these ignorant people preaching or speaking the same nonsense over and over and over…
He cant hate something that doesn’t exist…
Saying Aron hates god is like saying he hates flying pigs
I’m not sure how your logic doesn’t include the very rule you decided to follow and base your life on. “People that say that or that don’t” is itself a binary approach to understanding the reality of something. Your excluding and not including how each viewpoint has a piece of reality to understand so that we(like the blind men and the elephant story) can realize that it’s not a tree trunk or rope or anything else we can anthropomorphize nature into. Truth is Whole. Any of Truth’s pieces are entangled in other emerging limited truths. Finite vs infinite. Both sides of this conversation describe One thing, I hope you’d agree. Objective Truth is real. If we can see what you can fathom of God in whom you consider your enemy, then I’d know you have an understanding of what I’m trying to point to here. Everything has good and bad, that’s how it can be a thing.
@@brozgilson7022 would he devote his time to "disproving" flying pigs? Don't think he would
This is why I will always love Aron Ra. He is so prepared and levels his opponent with a blizzard of facts that can't be denied. It's like a man among children here. Aron dominates these brats.
By talking over them
Aron didn’t even let him talk, he kept interrupting him It was really annoying
@@UnmaskedTuxedo truth or not, you have to let them finish talking, even though they were not lying at all because these are all subjective claims. They are all opinions about what they think is the truth.
The patients of Cliffe and Stuart is outstanding. Cliffe can't get a sentence out without Ra interruptions, yet the floor is always open whenever he speak.
"patience", i agree with you tho
@@fartenthusiast-zl2qvit’s I not i; it ought to be capitalized
Well. They believe in a made up fairytale. Their patience must be outstanding.
@@jasongilder22 "It's" not "it's"; it ought to be capitalized
Aron was like "Sorry but you have to agree that I was right before I let you speak"
Edit: Hitler!
He didn’t say that he said he wants him to acknowledge what he said you useless dumb fuck
Why listen to someone try to derail your point on a false premise? If I ask you a question, that then leads to another question, I need that first answer before you move on to the next question. This is what’s called leading in debate, you ask a yes or no, that then transitions to a deeper yes or no, that then traps the individual into accepting something that is contrary to their beliefs by virtue of their first answers. It uses the opponent to point out their contradicting views.
@@vincentchamberlain107 You're right
@vincentchamberlain107 that's a hypocritical statement because both sides do the same thing and Aron often interrupts answers with more questions some rhetoric or just statements altogether
Wild edit
You're a person good in debate when you can disagree with the person and still have a civil conversation. Now you know if Aron is good in debate
You have no idea how to debate. Aron is witnessing a couple children attempt to put a square peg in a round hole over and over again.
@@sullivanpecharka3830you are blind brother. a debate without civil discourse won’t go anywhere, its like the only thing that holds an actual debate together. how can you watch Aron completely disregard cliff’s points with a egocentric perspective and agree with the man. I mean nothing but love to you man and I struggle with being egocentric too. But the objective problem is too obvious. Can’t help but to feel you’re feelings are biased for Aron man and that’s not being intellectually honest and fair
Aron asks a question and doesn't let anyone answer he just talks over them. Typical Aron tactic.
Yeah, Aron isn’t that good of a debater
I’m an atheist, but for some reason, I can’t help but like Stuart…
It’s because Aron worships his own intelligence. He can’t go a single debate without drinking, cussing, and saying everyone’s a liar… and playing the victim . I understand the position of atheists and agnostics because I was the same most my life but Arons position is insufferable, he can quote the Bible all he wants all he does is read things out of context
@@1surfpesca_what did he read out of context and what did he play victim about?
@@1surfpesca_everyone is not a liar, but every religion is a lie
The most amazing thing about this discussion is the patience and love of Cliff and Stuart when Aron was insulting them.
I made a 5 minute debate review of this one on my channel,
thought you might would be interested in it, based on your comment.
What are you talking about? Aron Ra has a right to get angry and passionate because that’s how these debates work, Cliff isn’t even really that nice anyway, his demeanour comes off as patronising.
@@willdavey1565 I’m on Aron’s side of the lane for this debate and I think he’s incredibly rude at times. For how intelligent he is, there is absolutely no reason to belittle or call people names if you claim to be in pursuit of the truth. If they’re wrong or don’t have the capability to understand your explanations, losing your cool and exploding into obscenities/personal attacks is not going to add to the conversation.
The perceived inaccuracy of your opponents claims is never a justification to throw a tantrum.
Yes and the most frustrating thing about this convo is that Aron never lets cliffe finish what he’s saying
This wasn't a debate. This was Aron Ra pathologically ranting and spewing utter nonsense in diatribe form, with Stuart agreeing with everything Aron Ra says
Aaron is a narcissistic child. He never lets anyone else complete a sentence, but if he gets to talk they show respect and listen. And Aaron claims to have morals , but he disrespects at every opportunity.
o the irony of that comment
and they believe in some fancy toothfairy Santa Claus 😆
Aaron ra is a beast 💪💪
I'm not a Christian but Cliffe is class
Atleast someone not on the Christian side can acknowledge Cliffe’s composure. It’s hard to try and justify your viewpoint when the opposition won’t even let you speak. Id love to hear a debate where Aron can keep his mouth shut long enough to let the opposition make a statement so he then can make an (uninterrupted) statement and refute whatever he disagrees with like an actual debate should be.
@kl690 the way this Aron debates or conducts himself he definitely needs Jesus. Disgusting human being
@@kl690 well even then cliff isnt good at debating hes an amazing apologist but hes just not good at debating so its pretty dumb to have these to go at it it doesn't help that the moderator is completely useless
@@Jesus_is_THE_king_of_kings That’s not the point. Aron still won’t keep his mouth shut and interrupts every time Cliffe speaks. I really don’t care if Aron or anyone thinks Cliffe is a bad debater or wrong on his worldview… have some respect and let him speak and you can refute him when he’s done. We’re taught this as children but Aron can’t figure it out. The moderator also just lets Aron run rampant which is ridiculous. This video is a tough watch.
It’s a simple matter of giving respect and not interrupting. Aron did neither this debate.
@@kl690 yes i understand that i was adding to your comment🤦🏻♂️
I think this is a perfect example of what Jesus says in Matthew. 7:6 says "“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." (NASB) or the Message paraphrase of Matthew 12-15 “When you knock on a door, be courteous in your greeting. If they welcome you, be gentle in your conversation. If they don’t welcome you, quietly withdraw. Don’t make a scene. Shrug your shoulders and be on your way. You can be sure that on Judgment Day they’ll be mighty sorry-but it’s no concern of yours now.
Very nice verses. Jesus is amazing.
Amen.
There is nothing holy that is being given.
Amen brother
@cbeer315 what a huge load of shit. Take that ignorance elsewhere.
Aron really thinks that everyone thinks the same ? There's people in this world that think rape is okay and there's people that think is wrong. So how is relativism not relevant?
I almost imploded when I heard him say that. There are 1000% people who do horrible things for their own good…
@@1surfpesca_and he says it many many many times and even screams it lmao he’s just drunk lmao
It is funny how Aron laughs with Stuart but yells at Cliffe. Crazy contrast sometimes.
Poor Aron doesn't even let Cliffe talk. He would probably be a lot more level headed if he wasn't drinking. I've never seen him in a debate without beer🤣🤣
Trust me he’s just as much an asshole
Perhaps cliff should stop lying, trying to put words in his mouth or making statements that need to be immediately rebutted. Then AR wouldn’t need to interrupt him.
@@deviouskris3012 oh shut the fuck up, Aron Ra gives no respect he gets none.. he's a loser
@Devious Kris maybe your stupid aron should stop being stupid on a debate
@@Jaryism Lmao, cry about it.
Aron makes me want to be a better person. Thanks Aron!
I agree! It's because he's an educated person who can defend himself rather easily. Where Cliffe (and it's sad to say his son will follow in his footsteps) is educated to be an apologist. He is saying the same exact things today as he says in this video from 2 years ago. How much do these guys make after going through a long process of becoming an apologist?
Stuart, it's not too late! 🙃
@@EddieSchultz62 Ah, yes. Because defending Biblical truth must always be done for monetary gain. Cliffe and Stuart rely on scientific fact to back their viewpoints. Aron bases his beliefs on his emotions.
@@lianadotjpeg First of all, what biblical truth are you speaking of? And yes, most people who defend a holy book do it for monetary gain, because they know there are gullible people like you out there that buy into it. If they rely on 'scientific' facts to support their claims, tell me the scientific facts that support their views. It's the other way around, what Aron says is supported by facts, where Cliffe and his son's claims are based on faith.
@@lianadotjpeg Aron is a self made millionaire for promoting atheism. Apologetics is not for monetary gain.
@@EddieSchultz62 A; its not about money. B;defending the Gospel and the fact used dont change. why would they need to say something different?
Aron has never been punched in the mouth. You don’t talk over people. You let others speak then you speak. That’s how a conversation works . Buddy didn’t let cliffe talk once without interrupting him .
Cliffe, your patience and grace from God here is a wonderful example to all believers confronted by antagonistic opposition today. Praise God.
I applaud Cliff on his patience. I cannot converse with someone who wants to only hear themselves and just cuts off the other person the first time they hear somethingthey disagree with without letting the person get out their entire point. This is why I don't debate.
I will converse untill I'm drowned out. I'll just walk away, which unfortunately is often where people get the "oh they never have an answer for my question, they just turn away when they're asked". No, it's because you won't respectfully let them get their point out.
This guy just doesn't know how to shut up and listen.
ya exactly
💯
Cliffe be lying that’s why, I’d get pissed too.
@@iamwondered about what? What lies?
@@mitchallen5819the entirety of the Bible lol
It's so bizarre to watch Aron get so pissed off when talking about Jesus Christ but then continually assert that he isn't even real.
Aron practically argues against every other word Cliffe says and doesn't allow him to get a single point across. He comes off insecure
Aron talks about promoting happiness and well being. But he fails to realize who says that’s good? Is it just his opinion that that should be the moral standard? Who says happiness and peoples well being is good and moral he can’t answer that.
@@UnmaskedTuxedo it is an opinion lol. First principals according to who? You? That’s ur opinion. Atheists can’t have objective morality.
@@Mixedjoshh says who? You believers can't either.
Its the naturalistic fallacy. Read Mill's work on Utilitarianism. I teach ethics in college and while Mill's utilitarianism is helpful, it isn't the same as saying we 'ought' to do something, which is deontic as well as grounded in virtue ethics. We promote happiness and well being BECAUSE it promotes those things. This isn't ethics but merely logic.
@@mistylover7398god
22:40
This is one of the most blatant examples of Science as a religion I've ever heard in my life
If evolution is immoral, then transhumanism would be immoral too, because its a result of evolution, so his position isn't even consistent
But even if you grant him this, his whole position comes down to "Humans always bad but science make human good"
This is just the dumbest form of religion, Aron wants you to believe you're some flawed person who will always be immoral because its in your nature, so you need to give yourself up to technology and then you'll be a better person, and this is the same guy who tells you that having faith makes you an idiot
And you just misrepresented aron ra. Like all thiests do.
@@rocknroll1973 There is no misrepresentation there, its what logically follows from what he said
My position here doesn't even have anything to do with theism
@@MCJustJ420 science is not a religion though.
@@rocknroll1973 The argument is about how there are people who treat it as one, if you don't see the glaring similarities between what Aron said at that timestamp, and how religion functions, there is nothing to discuss here
What a bitter old man this Aron guy is, hope God would change him for His glory. He sure needs it
boxing fan uk - - “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” - '' - ''Another dies in bitterness of soul, never having tasted of prosperity.''
- For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity.”
I made a 5 minute debate review of this one on my channel,
thought you might would be interested in it, based on your comment.
Varsity S. it’s a good thing the bible isn’t a replacement for the DSM-V. Holy shit. Quoting scripture is just another way to gaslight from cryptic authority.
Why do people debate this Aron Ra? He sounds like a tantruming toddler.
@boxing fan uk What debate were you watching?
Right he didn't even let Cliffe and Stuart get their points out let alone respect the debate by being humble to ppl in which he preaches humanity has self righteous morales found on our own without a God but he cant even build up enough common courtesy to listen. Smh. He insults those who has a different opinion from his. Hes definitely showing what an ignorant atheist looks like. He expresses that Cliffe and Stuart are ignorant to his definitions but has the audacity to attack our Lord and Saviour out of context. Smh pray for this lost sole. And stop debating him till he humbled himself. Gees sounds like a whining grown baby.
@boxing fan uk He absolutely won. Hahaha
@@Lerian_V Guys, people are going to say that the guy who is like-minded with them is the "winner." Emotion or cussing doesn't make someone a loser or winner. Being flat affect when speaking doesn't make someone a winner or loser. To sit around and make desperate statements about the character is asinine.
On the other debate just recently with AronRa, Cliffe, and Stuart, I thought The older Christian gentleman and AronRa BOTH were very passionate and demonstrative, even both getting a little riled up and condescending a few times and the younger Christian guy was more even-keeled in the delivery of his portion of speaking. I didn't think anyone was OVERALL pissed at life and disliked their life. When people do this, they are often projecting their own nonsense.
How about we all stay far away and clear from that and what so many are doing on the message board?
@@kiastar67 You're on point, Kia.
There was a couple points in this where Aron is like so close to getting what Cliffe is saying and then he just goes “Nope. Didn’t happen” “that’s a lie” etc and wouldn’t even genuinely engage with it. He holds positions I used to as an atheist. It took a lot for me to become open to the idea. His heart is extremely hardened. He probably had bad experiences with hypocritical religious people, as many of us have had. It’s sad and unfortunate.
There’s no way in hell Aron would sacrifice himself for anyone 😂😂😂
U think the con artists you worship would? Preacher is a job title pal, and they have been abusing the innocent for millenia.$$$$ 😅
I can guarentee you these clowns make far more and do far less than aron ra
But what if he did? Pray for him
We hope he would... But... we dont know
Well in hell no, becasue hell doesn't exist but he said he would so it's probable that he would.
You don't know that.
Aron gets offended when someone starts an argument with him that he can’t argue against. He wants to be in control of the argument, and when he’s not, he gets upset. That’s why when Cliffe came on he flew into a rage.
I can attest to this. Last year at satancon he couldn't answer me when he couldn't deemed his position we don't have a soul.
He got upset, and ran away saying he just wanted to enjoy the conference.
You could tell he's used to pre packaged arguments
Aron's definition are more superior than anyone else's ever throughout history.
Please make another one with Aron Ra I know he's a lot to handle or an asshole but this is really interesting and probably one of the better conversations unlike the school campus children who don't have a leg to stand on.
Agreed. Even if you are a Christian you need to appreciate people like Aron Ra who can actually bring substantive discussion to the table.
They had one before this
The same way Aron bombards Christians on the street with pre Thought out arguments to make them look stupid…
@@Demonizer5134 like references to the 4 breeds of chimpanzees and how people have surpassed them because of caring for each other but animals do take care of their prides they just don't create but survive in the wilderness which is how humanity crawled out of darkness into light and he might think he's superior over many people as well but it only makes sense to his argument and not much to say he's got a point he's just going for the points but maybe he's not talking about chimpanzees cause we can look around society and wonder if there is a God how do you explain that to the chimpanzees 😂
I have no idea why Cliff bothered to "debate" with this guy after the last crapshow.
For one, when you make your living selling crapola like Cliffe does, you can't help yourself. He's convinced himself he's right even though he has zero evidence to support his baseless claims.
@@dwendt44 Uh huh... lol.
I made a 5 minute debate review of this one on my channel,
thought you might would be interested in it, based on your comment.
@@misterRDF is that the extent of your answer. Anyone who holds the position of God, is automatically wrong, until they can prove themselves right.
@@poozer1986 Uh huh...
Praying for Aaron Ra. I pray the Lord reveals themselves to him. I pray the demons that are binding and blinding him are bound in Jesus' name.
Stop wasting your time with prayers. It doesn't work on any ateists, included me. I take that as an insult. And prayers only prove that you are gullible to believe that it works. You are just ridiculous.
@@kentkvalnes4621we’ve literally seen it work tho🤣
Amen!
It hurts my heart to see people belittling others! Aron has moral standards yet he's so disrespectful! I rather follow an "imaginary being" than follow Aron's moral standards! I honestly am so sad for Aron because Hell needs firewood and he seems a good sizable one!
Something else that's ironic....this guy should just wakeup already and live in reality!
Aron (/ˈærən/) is a masculine given name and a surname. It is an alternate spelling of Aaron, prominent biblical figure in the Old Testament. The name Aron means Teaching, Singing and is of Hebrew origin. The name means "mountaineer", or "mount of strength".
I rather follow an "imaginary being" Speaks volumes of how far you will go to dendend such a position.I feel sorry for you.
@@Bugsy0333 Another Aron like person. Do you only believe your own inner Dialogue only as well and not listen nor think further about things that the ego allows?
stuart is too nice, would love to see sam shamoun humble aron on the trinity in the bible
I hope one day I can be as well spoken as Aron
The issue with Aron's whole argument is that it's subjective in his own belief. He can say no one wants to harm people and that he puts his moral faith into humanity, but look at history, look at some of the examples he himself brought up.
The issue with him saying that's "objective" is that if he was in a down-trodden area, his look on that would be totally different.
Btw, it DOES NOT say anything about sex slaves. LMAO.
He's generalizing of course. There are a handful of fools that want to hurt people. But generally no.
What do you think(assuming you do) it means when virgin females are to be saves as rewards for slaughtering every male, old women and females that have had sex? Solomon had hundreds of sex slaves (concubine).
Great debate. There is room for Aron and Clive to learn from each other, both are very headstrong and equally convinced of what they believe. Aron is a better match for Clive than most of the students I saw him debate in other videos. It will be a far greater challenge for Clive to convince Aron and I do believe he needs to adjust his method to more clearly learn the premise from which Aron comes. As Christians we don’t have to prove that Jesus is God and the bible infallible but we have to find a way to get across the message that Jesus died for our sins and that we can have a personal relationship now with God through the Holy Spirit if we repent and accept the sacrifice. About morality, Aron is right that it is something that does not just arise from evolution but it places a great part in it. God’s morality however is rooted not in evolution but His love for mankind. Only God can foresee the future and therefore the first commandment is to put him first in everything. Human morality is shaky because it doesn’t look far enough from the here and now. Well meaning morality often leads to evil especially when bad things happen and one doesn’t know who or what to blame. However people used to use God to give them justification to do bad things like the witch hunts and many other atrocities of the past. God is also often used as a justification to attack other countries in a so called righteous war like president Bush did when invading Afghanistan. Christianity has gotten a bad name because of misuses like this. Christians often went along with atrocities because they rejected the Holy Spirit not embracing the prophetic gifts thus not able anymore to discern spirits. Demons gained control of Christians because they stopped believing into Demons and the devil, and therefore nobody in church knows anymore how to use authority over them. Healings don’t happen because faith has been reduced to a rattling down of empty prayers and confessions of believe in Jesus but denying the power of God through their lifestyles. Who when sick still goes to the elders to have them pray over them, instead most immediately run to their doctors or chemist which shows how much trust they really have in Jesus. If Christians can’t trust God for healing, how can they trust him for salvation which is a far greater work? Because of the lack of faith amongst Christians they have long stopped being the salt of the earth and are trampled over wherever they go. We need a revival of the Holy Spirit again, because only the Holy Spirit can convict the hearts of people like Aron of sin, righteousness and the coming judgement. That’s what I’m praying because everything else, important as it is we do, won’t do any good unless God is with us.
In a martial arts versus skepticism analogy. Aron has a lot to "lose" image-wise and can maintain his image and ego by "doubling down" and staying off the mat and doubting versus humbling himself, getting on the mat (drawing near) Evolution being true doesn't discount Jesus. See S. Joshua Swamidass on that topic. Evolution or Naturalism doesn't equal atheism. See Alvin Plantiga.
@@MuhammadsMohel that‘s true, evolution doesn’t equal atheism but many seem to think this. Evolution however doesn’t explain creation or the origin, it only is a rational and logical explanation of how nature adapts to changes in its environment. It doesn’t really matter how God created the universe, what matters is that Jesus died for our sins and rose again so that we now can be forgiven when we accept this free gift. Debating about the reliability of scripture is something Christians can do amongst themselves but it won’t convince non-believers because there are too many voices out there and whom should they believe? Only because we say the bible is true doesn’t necessarily make it so. Therefore it needs a stronger proof. Paul said that he didn’t try to convince people through clever speeches but through the power and demonstration of the Holy Spirit. Signs and wonders are the confirmation that God is with us, the very reason why false prophets like the Antichrist try to imitate them. However nobody can cast out demons and heal the sick unless God is with them. Therefore we Christians need to stop convincing people through arguments alone but proof that God is with us. The very definition of a Witness (Martyr) is someone who is able to proof what he believes.
If an athiest doesn't have sufficient reason to believe that Jesus even existed, then why should we acknowledge the story of his sacrifice for our sins as anything but a story? It's not like we can't appreciate the meaning and the lessons from the story, Anakin Skywalker sacrificed himself to save the galaxy and his son and now is one with the living force, it doesn't mean that he and the rest of Star Wars isn't fiction. Before you say that places referenced in the bible were real, remember that New York city is a real city, it doesn't mean that the Chitauri are confirmed to have invaded new york in 2012. The bible from what we know so far, is just a story and we shouldn't have to treat it anymore than that until we can we have considerable evidence to the contrary.
@@alecmackintosh2734 you couldn’t be more wrong. There is absolute no comparison here. If there were hundreds of witness accounts of Luke Skywalker having been raised from the dead and that he really lived, added to this accounts of people investigating the claims, yes, maybe you would have a point. But you don’t.
@@rightousliving hundreds of people file police reports that they have seen ghosts, does that mean that they are real? Witness testimony if used at all is the least reliable form of evidence, when people say "seeing is believing" they mean themselves seeing it, not someone else.
i think aron saying “now you may continue” is just one of many examples of how he thinks
Aron: Immorality is something that causes unnecessary Harm to someone
Also Aron: Explicitly Cursing out and disrespecting Cliffe the whole debate
He's giving Cliffe as much respect as he deserves; none whatsoever.
@@redpillfreedom6692 That proves that the Christians are more intelligent and way more kind and humble.
@@redpillfreedom6692 he deserves no respect because you disagree with him?? …. I used to believe The Godless still could have morals but you’re making me wanna rethink that. 💀
@@redpillfreedom6692and what has Cliffe done to deserve such vitriol? Nothing, whatsoever.
@@redpillfreedom6692 Wrong, that's the entire point of a debate. To find which side is correct and therin respect it. There's no defending Aron in this man.
You get nothing out of this I watched almost 30 min the atheist gets to talk by himself and then when the Christian is brought on he gets talked over the whole time re do it where both sides can speak and I would listen to the whole thing
@@UnmaskedTuxedo stubborn dishonesty? When is it coherent to talk over people in a debate? It’s childish. I’d say Aron is just as stubborn and dishonest as you claim Stuart to be. Pathetic, Aron has no sense of patience or tolerance, lame.
@@jadederaentertainment he has no patience because he has the same conversation over and over again and all the christians say the same stupid things over and over again. All he wants is one piece of evidence and he completely destroys what they give him in his responses.
atheists say the same stupid things especially when they're inmature and full of anger over God which they claim they don't believe in
@@codeblood2000 guz you're imaginary friend is evil if he's real and the real atheists is people like your poison mindset so of course we're angry about stupidity 😆 you people really are hopeless to ever educate. Grow up
He 'interrupts' people when they say something that is a lie, wrong, misrepresent him or something else, or just to correct them.
Perversion of bible passages and slandering God is the mentality of people like this atheist. We still love them and pray for them.
Ummmm, Ra doesn't know that some of us went from simply believing....to KNOWING that Jesus Christ is alive, well and active. Once a human is born Again through the miraculous power of the Holy Spirit, the Truth Jesus Christ is revealed to us personally. Once this occurs....it's an undeniable real life experience. What the bible says about being given a new heart, the Holy Spirit being our helper, knowing right from wrong, no longer feeling lost and confussed, and desiring what's right is absolutely CORRECT! The problem that athiests have is not am intellectual one, but a spiritual one. If only they would humble themselves to really and truelly seek, and have an open mind, then they should have no problem having a one on one with Jesus and repenting before him in the privacy of their room. Most athiests I know also have a huge pride issue that prevents them from seeking Christ. We need to pray for our athiest friends in hopes that they find Jesus before it's too late. ❤️
Satan has his hands all over Aron. That and I think Aron proves how hateful he truly is when Cliffe says anything. It's absolutely abhorrent how angry he gets, the names he calls Cliffe, and Jesus for that fact. I pray for Aron's soul.
"Satan" aka reality
ARON IS VERY DISRESPECTFUL TO Christianity. How dare he say Jesus is fake, just insulted Jesus and all the Christians, Catholics. Aron keeps swearing. Dark side vs the light. Even his room is all dark and he’s drinking a beer. There’s no point debating with Aron because his heart is too hardened. The only way he will believe if something miraculous happened and he’s on his death bed or something.
Catholics insult Jesus also.
repent and follow Jesus True! Some Catholics follow Jesus too though. So it depends. I guess they worship Mary a lot and the Catholics I know don’t read the bible.
@@larpy Odd, as few christians, Catholic or Prostestants, read the bible. Most Atheism have read it. In many cases, reading it is a large part of why they are now Atheists.
dwendt44 Maybe not reading it in its context. If you look at how Jesus lived died and rose again and thousands of eyewitness accounts who saw. Have you looked at the evidence of the bible ? Life always comes from life. When have you seen life come from nothing? If we were all an accident their is not objective morals. You cannot say to someone else murder is wrong because in their culture murder could be right. Christians believe in a moral just God that’s why we know what is wrong and right. We have a conscience and soul.
@@larpy Reading it in context is just as bad. There were no witnesses, period. The baseless claim that there was proves nothing other than the dishonesty of the writers. The bible is not evidence. A book of fairy tales at best.
The word 'soul' means 'breath' look it up. There is no 'objective' morals. Try citing an example of one. Society, in whole decides morals aside from common sense.
The bible supports slavery, condones incest, exemplifies polygamy, advocates child abuse, approves of genocide, and tells believers to kill those who don't believe, or don't believe correctly.
I laughed when Aron said that Cliffe didn’t make a 2nd point so how can he make a 3rd 😂 if you’d stop talking and listen you might’ve heard it. Yelling is not an argument
From 45:00 - 45:45
Crazy to watch this part...
Please sit back and realise both these men want to help each other so badly...
forget about the ideas for a moment and notice the passion for one another. That's humanity.
Now put your filter back on and pick a side :(
Aron don’t like being called a lair yet he can call cliffe horrendous names
Aron is pretty arrogant. I see why Cliffe gets upset because he has to repeat himself so many times on just one sentence also getting interrupted every other sentence it would bug the day lights out of me.
trying to disregard all the insults and interrupting, at 41:30 is where I stopped giving Aaron the benefit of the doubt. He says promoting wellbeing/happiness is the standard. when asked who Defines happiness/wellbeing, he says all of humanity universally agrees, yet that can’t be the case bc we have murderers & dictators who’d say otherwise... so obviously not everyone agrees on the definition; how can he not see that his standard is falty. it'd be solid logic if He atleast Agreed that someone defining genocide as true happiness is okay; atleast he'd be consistent in that case, but then it would cause good/evil(heal or kill) to be both legit, both equally moral/immoral and thus meaningless... I'm confused as to how he doesn't see this. To me he seems more occupied with throwing insults than having a solid conversations. If He's frustrated with the repetitiveness, I understand but even We can deal with the repetitive comments and insults yet be quiet enough to let someone finish their point.
The only person who can tell whether YOU are happy or not is YOU. Health and wellbeing can be objectively verified through medical science. So there isn't a one person answer to who defines those things. As to "defining genocide as true happiness" not even people who support genocide believe that. People who support genocide usually defend it on the basis of "Those people are evil or backward and they are getting in our way. So we should get rid of them". It's how the Europeans justified the genocide of the Native Americans for example.
@@elzoog I feel where you’re coming from but respectfully your response to what I said on genocide and happiness, only reiterates my point. That they don’t see what they’re doing to be a bad thing. They see it as a justice- a good thing to be promoted- bc they perceive the other side to be evil.
@@daseanclark5462 "They see it as a justice- a good thing to be promoted- bc they perceive the other side to be evil."
So THEY think it's good based on the standard that Aron mentioned. This is one point of evidence that the STANDARD is universal. I notice that you did NOT argue that Pol Pot was NOT trying to apply that standard. You just think that he failed in applying it.
By the way, the idea that evil is actually a twisted or incorrect application of good is a CHRISTIAN concept. If you don't believe me, ask any priest who is an eastern rite Catholic, or one of the various forms of Orthodox.
@@elzoog I’ll be honest I’m confused lol. so what you’re saying is.. if they think it’s good to commit genocide- u say this coincides with his standard- but also if we think it’s bad, that also coincides with his standard?
doesnt that conclude that both are completely legitimate? That it really doesn’t matter which u choose? Aarons whole point was people universally agree on what happiness/well-being is, but that’s just not true.
Idk who Pol Pot is tbh, I’ve heard his name thrown around a lot but never looked into him. And the point about Christianity and evil being a twist of good, I don’t see the relevance to the original point
Like your point was people who commit it don’t view it as genocide but as a necessary good thing rather.
But we’d agree genocide is genocide no matter how u justify it, correct?
Aron is a prime example of someone who needs to be right in every conversation no matter what yet claims he advocates for the truth
LOL, as soon on as I got here my first thought was let's see how long before Aron starts drinking.
🍺🍼
I almost spit up laughing...
My immediate thought was let's see how long before Aron showcases his ability to drink alcohol.
@Silenced Two
It only would have been funnier if I posted the question before he enacted his performance.
But I couldn't I didn't have time. 🍺😂🍺
@@SimonWoodburyForget don't waste your breath, this guy buys into qanon bs.
He’s a grown ass adult, what’s the matter if he drinks or not. He can be totally inebriated and obliterate sky daddy believers with simple logic and skepticism. This always boils down to: religious types accept hopeful wishes/doctrine without evidence and skeptics don’t
Hello. I am an atheist. I define atheism as suspending acknowledgement of the existence of gods until sufficient evidence can be presented. My position is that *_I have no good reason to acknowledge the existence of gods._*
And here is the evidence as to why I currently hold to such a position.
1. I personally have never observed a god.
2. I have never encountered a person whom has claimed to have observed a god.
3. I know of no accounts of persons claiming to have observed a god that were willing or able to demonstrate or verify their observation for authenticity, accuracy, or validity.
4. I have never been presented a valid logical argument which also employed sound premises that lead deductively to a conclusion that a god(s) exists.
5. Of the 46 logical syllogisms I have encountered arguing for the existence of a god(s), I have found all to contain multiple fallacious or unsubstantiated premises.
6. I have never observed a phenomenon in which the existence of a god was a necessary antecedent for the known or probable explanation for the causation of that phenomenon.
7. Several proposed (and generally accepted) explanations for observable phenomena that were previously based on the agency of a god(s), have subsequently been replaced with rational, natural explanations, each substantiated with evidence that excluded the agency of a god(s). I have never encountered _vice versa._
8. I have never experienced the presence of a god through intercession of angels, divine revelation, the miraculous act of divinity, or any occurrence of a supernatural event.
9. Every phenomena that I have ever observed has *_emerged_* from necessary and sufficient antecedents over time without exception. In other words, I have never observed a phenomenon (entity, process, object, event, process, substance, system, or being) that was created _ex nihilo_ - that is instantaneously came into existence by the solitary volition of a deity.
10. All claims of a supernatural or divine nature that I have encountered have either been refuted to my satisfaction, or do not present as falsifiable.
ALL of these facts lead me to the only rational conclusion that concurs with the realities I have been presented - and that is the fact that there is *_no good reason_* for me to acknowledge the existence of a god.
I have heard often that atheism is the denial of the Abrahamic god. But denial is the active rejection of a substantiated fact once credible evidence has been presented. Atheism is simply withholding such acknowledgement until sufficient credible evidence is introduced. *_It is natural, rational, and prudent to be skeptical of unsubstatiated claims, especially extraordinary ones._*
I welcome any cordial response. Peace.
I have seen, touched and talked to God. Pleasure to make your acquaintance.
@@ryanawilson8549 Have you documented these experiences in some manner? Have you notified any news agencies or publication of your experiences?
Or were you speaking metaphorically?
@@theoskeptomai2535 When you talk to god, it's religion, when god talks to you, it's mental illness.
@@dwendt44 I like that. Clever synopsis.
This was pretty well put together mate. Cheers.
Cliffe literally isn’t allowed to speak for more than 5 seconds before he’s drowned out by Aron. Who would want to listen to someone constantly talking over another person. Why join a debate if you don’t let the other person speak…. He hears something he doesn’t like and interrupts like a child….
Why the cursing! I can’t watch this anymore. Aron is a child.
I made a 5 minute debate review of this one on my channel,
thought you might would be interested in it, based on your comment.
What a baby. "Wahh the words hurt my feelings because I'm soft." Get over it.
What delicate sensibilities
@@jsk5633 😇🤣
Aron is a child??? Who's clutching their pearls and whining about words?
I am Aron!
I am Aron Ra!
I am Not Wrong... You must obey my logic
At least he has Logic.
@@dp9550 no he doesn’t
@@Infinite111_ Oh yes
Watch it again. And again. And again. Watch so many times before you understand what’s going on. Just because you don’t understand something doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
@@furiousinsects6386 Exactly! And to fully appreciate your perspective " just because you think you understand something, doesn't mean it is right."
Everybody and everyone always no matter what believes and agrees with everything Aron says. yet for some reason he feels the need to express his opinions and thoughts. make perfect sense.
Jesus is Lord
Your personal scapegoat
@@jvalfin3359 your scape goat is a dead rock
@Alex no but you will be in a matter of time
@@andrej1659 I didn't know rocks could live
@@jvalfin3359 exactly and yet you believe life came from a dead rock...
I came here for Aron, and always love him, but i genuinely like Stuart. Him and Aron seem to get along well, which is a wolrd id like to live in
Aron is a yelling dude who literally will not stop speaking to let cliffe talk. Guys just yells “I’m right ! You’re wrong!” I’ve heard 3 year olds debate better than Aron. Guy can’t shut his lips for 2 seconds to let anyone talk, that’s a debate ? Nobody got anything out of this debate. Aron is a fraud and manipulator and needs to learn to listen .
Open discussion yes, but I haven't heard Cliffe once, because Aron interrupted the whole time. I heard what he said and I looked back at the verses he was referring to. But I would've loved to listen what Cliffe had to say. That's how it suppose to go, bothways.
See the difference between how Aron speaks with Cliffe versus Stuart?
Stuart wants to have a conversation about beliefs. Cliffe wants to preach about his.
Yes, I noticed that as well
its the demons inside him he is unaware
@@thecountofcapegreco772 Yes, of course. The “demons” that Jesus attributed to physical sicknesses or mental illness.
Do you not see how dangerous that type of thinking is? By prescribing some sort of magic to heal actual disease and illnesses, people would be left worse off than if they got actual medical help.
Had it not been for science, most illnesses would still be looked at as “spiritual” to this day.
@@TheFirstAtom turn to science like it answers everything ! You’re just listening to an opinion. You’ve been miss educated.
Science produces GM that grows cancel cells in our bodies. We are only men and can’t explain everything with science FACT so be humble
@@TheFirstAtom weak victim mentality
"They'll repeat that same lie the next day".... says the guy who's been corrected on the Biblical meaning of faith repeatedly and refuses to accept it.
Would you please explain the meaning of faith in your own words (not quote scriptures) and provide an example?
Theo Skeptomai
The word used in the Greek is "Pistis". This means "trust" or "confidence".
An example. I have faith in a pilot's ability to fly a plane when I board it. Otherwise, I wouldn't board it.
@@brando3342 Thanks for your clear definition and example. So are you stating that you are confident that a god exists?
@@theoskeptomai2535 I would say yes I am, are you confident that he doesn't?
Theo Skeptomai
No problem. Yes, I am confident of his existence, for many reasons.
Aron is actually making no argument. He's just being rude. Plus he keeps saying evolution in the context of being how human beings came to be as a fact
Cliffe & Stuart are amazing people. Always setting a good example. 🙏🙏🙏
Well Stuart is perhaps.
I made a 5 minute debate review of this one on my channel,
thought you might would be interested in it, based on your comment.
Aaron has the conduct as if every reddit neckbeard atheist was combined into a single body, he about looks like it too.
Aron is just a flat out objectionist... say no for the sake wanting to be different. He can't listen!
Once aron ra finds jesus he will save many people.
Yes, and though the Lord can make anything happen and turn all bad to good its likely arons heart is too hardened
That's funny. A satanist whos convincing people to become gullible christians. You will need more that your prayer and your magical miracleworker to make that happen! Me myself can make unicorns real, I only have to wish hard enough..hahaha.
No Atheist believe everything came from nothing. But they are pretty darn convinced it ain't God. 🤦♂️
As there is no evidence of a god, any god, then why think there is?
@J w That's one of several possibilities.
Both sides give very compelling arguments that can challenge both theists and non theists. I dare to say that Aron or Cliffe responding emotionally can help elevate those arguments more poignantly given how firm their stances are. I'm glad they've had multiple discussions for us to observe.
"Either you get bitter ... or you get better." CS
‘Get busy living, or get busy dying....that’s goddamn right’
-Red
@@deanmccrorie3461 is that Rhett Butler?
"You're either busy being born or you're busy dying"
Either way we are either along for the ride or we care about our direction.
Regardless of fundamental beliefs, I think most of humanity faces both realities.
Though I think it is common place to them nk death happens to someone else. Eventually we will all discover otherwise.
I know some of mankinds pursuit is to incorporate man and machine in order to live forever.
@@landofthefree2023 no it’s from Red, Shawshank Redemption
@@deanmccrorie3461
Dynamic Movie
haha (: thats.. well i guess theres some truth to that
This is what a lack of God does to a man? My faith strengthens every day
he’s very intelligent ?im curious wht tht means by does to a man
Just because he dresses and looks different to you that somehow makes him less? Your not a very good Christian.
Strengthened faith.
Lol.
Do you mean, the more reality disproves supernatural superstitions, the more you need "make believe" to justify your imagination?
...when you argue with a drunkard.
@@globalcoupledances but then how will we get our virgins?
Thank god for these Atheists
The platform and format of these types of videos is perfect for Atheists to shine, they seek extreme measures of data to combat the actual mortality of life ( being extremely supernatural )
This is what us Christians need, true tests. True battles, true Holy Spirit to be able to walk through them in a level headed manner
Haha, just skip through the whole video and most of what you'll see is Aron interrupting and yelling like an angry disgruntled man, that's about the only sane thing to do when its a debate with Aron, I really don't know why anybody chooses to have the guy on.
He doesn't want anyone to challenge his beliefs, I'd rather listen to the jackass that spoke to Balaam in numbers 22:28!
@@dwayneconaway1733 You actually believe in talking animals? Listening to a 'jackass' means you are talking to yourself.
@@dwendt44 if your asking if I believe that it is more probable for a powerful eternal creator to make a jackass talk than for everything in this world to come from nothing then yes.
@Nic B Why not? They live in a make believe world with magic, gods, talking animals, visions, and a major load of nonsense.
I made a 5 minute debate review of this one on my channel,
thought you might would be interested in it, based on your comment.
Aron Ra, an American thinker, greatly inspires me with his ideas.
Man I would be furious if someone talked to me like that in a debate. It’s insane, how can 2 people have an honest intellectual talk, when one side keeps straw-manning you, ignores ur arguments, takes his own emotions and feelings as evidence, clearly hasn’t done much research or even knows his own book that his entire faith is even based on? Why is it usually atheists and agnostics who know the Bible better than they do??? It’s because they actually sat down and read the Bible. 🤣
Keep it up Aaron!! And cliffe too for that matter, he seemed to genuinely consider the arguments and argued in good faith.
Aron refuses to allow Cliff to speak. Again Cliff says "I believe " , Aron talks over him with insults. Where's the dialoge? And I'm supposed to believe this is a conversation?
According to Aron's view of reality, human beings are evolved animals, which means that what we refer to as morality, are nothing more than sociobiological traits evolved by our species. What that means is that a person can act in accordance with those traits, or act contrary to them. So to hit someone in the head with a baseball bat would simply be acting out of fashion to our "evolved" traits. And that's it. Evolution does not have a mind to create any standard or laws that one must adhere to. Only evolved traits for our particular species.
So atheism does not fit our experience of life, because we are well aware that to hit an innocent person in the head with a bat is absolutely evil, not someone acting out of fashion to evolved traits, which is all evolution can provide. So whatever standard Aron wants to create is irrelevant to reality according to his own worldview.
It's interesting. If you hit your girlfriend in the head with a bat, she will likely not like that and will refuse to have sex with you. Thus, halting the reproduction of human beings. Violence, in many ways, causes an impediment to evolutionary progression.
Theistic worldview is based on an ancient book, rife with contradictions and violence and rape, and slavery. It tells us that violence is ok. It also tells us it isn't. Secular morality has very LITTLE if not any contradictions. Any normal person in society knows and understands that hitting someone in the head with a bat for no reason is evil and wrong. I knew that LONG before I even knew what a bible was.
Yes. And don't forget the hate preachers who think homosexuals should be rounded up and shot in the back of the head.
Been following cliffe for a while, loved his campus apologetics. But it becomes apparent in this video, he is not that well as calibrated as Stuart when engaging a person who is already convinced intellectually of his own position, with a thousand threads in his Web of belief that you can't possibly untangle without gentleness. I mean I've seen Cliffe's long patience with students. But Aron is beyond intellectual convincing. A friendly relationship with him is the way to go, instead of not willing to be perceived as possibly wrong.
In genesis God refers to himself as “we” that’s what convinced me Jesus Christ is God.
It's pretty clear. We're soul, spirit, flesh. Jesus is the flesh of God, and suffered the world in sacrifice to the Lord. That's what we're to do with our flesh.
😅😅😅😅😅
Aron “I like to presuppose my arbitrary worldview and then call other people names for pointing out the fact that it was in fact presupposed, and arbitrary” Ra
Unbelievable level of misplaced arrogance and intellectual dishonesty. Just disrespectful.
@Nic B
Aron Ra presupposed -flat out 100% assumed- his point/worldview, and then preceded say that it wasn’t presupposed. He did exactly that, and then called them names and was was unnecessarily aggressive at the correction given. He refuses to hear; he doesn’t want to know that his foundation is of blind faith-an assumption.
I made a 5 minute debate review of this one on my channel,
thought you might would be interested in it, based on your comment.
@@DanielApologetics I will check it out
Aron Ra losing it in debates is hilarious! I could watch him debate for hours. 😂😂
And could you actually pay attention to what he's saying?
@@Eddieshred I just said that I enjoy watching Aron Ra lose it in debates. ‘Losing it’ means when he gets mad and flips out. I could watch him do that for hours-it’s the only entertaining part of the debate for me. I also paid attention to some of the other points as well.
@@WeBareTheBears Yeah fair enough. I also could watch him for hours lol.
I would have been upset as Cliff's son at the way Aron Ra was disrespecting my father.
And the Lord! Aaron gets very upset if you disagree with his opinion on things but when you express yours he sings lalalala and disrespectfully not listen to what one has to say cause he think he knows everything. Looks like, sounds like, and probably even smell like an hypocrite.
@@QSilence It was Cliffe's nonsense and B.S. that Aron disrespects.
Perhaps Stuart is tired of the nonsense his father is constantly spewing.
@@dwendt44 If God is not the standard of Morality and Holiness, and everything is relative and subjective, nobody is right and nobody is wrong, then who or what is the standard of Morality and Holiness?
@@smartrecords4881 God has standards? The bible (god word, right?) supports slavery, condones incest, exemplifies polygamy, advocates child abuse, approves of genocide, and wants his loyal subject to kill those that don't worship him. We can do better. Human betterment is a good source for moral standards. Societies have set reasonable standards of 'morality' and they work well generally.
"If there is no God, all things are permissible" -Dosteovsky
This comment made it a whole 24 hours without an assault from an atheist. Congrats!
@@somesoccerguy4817 a whole month actually 🙏🏾🙏🏾
Well if he said that, he is wrong, unless you took the phrase out of context.
If something causes harm or unnecessary suffering, it should not be permissible. So the reason is not the magic man in the sky who makes fire rain and golems come alive.
@@chibibeetle pain and suffering are part of the evolutionary process, why is it all of a sudden wrong with humans?
@@Convexhull210 because most people doesn't like pain (even masochists won't like it at some degree), suffering is unnecessary. Evolution is no excuse to cause harm, we can cause dogs and cats evolve without damaging them.
Well done Stuart and Cliffe by not allowing Aron to dominate the debate. God bless.
Funny I see many comments saying the opposite that aron wouldn't let them talk
Not allowing Cliffe and Stuart talk shows that Aron is not Open Minded.
"The Only reason an atheist never finds God is for the same reason a criminal never finds the Police. He is running away. Atheists are running away from God." ~Cliffe and Stuart ❤😂😅❤
Aron is literally the stereotypical Reddit Atheist that doesn’t have any arguments besides “it’s wrong and you secretly believe it’s wrong because of these other people (who may or may not be real) who admit it isn’t real” and then badgers his way into breaking down his opponent until they can’t handle debating him anymore. I admire Stuart and Cliffe’s patience, I’d never be able to have a discussion with someone like Aron for more than ten minutes
55:19 thereabout is the perfect example. Just badgering and interrupting Cliffe while he’s trying to make a point. Aron doesn’t listen and isn’t an intellectually honest debater. He doesn’t debate religion in good faith (haha) and, like Stuart has said in a different debate, he’s probably only arguing from unresolved trauma.
Yea dude, when someone is constantly making incredibly dumb arguments that are based on absolutely nothing but lies. I would interrupt that shit too.
@@robertylonen1896where and when are the lies told? Bc this guy throughout the whole hour and 30 minutes just kept repeating “if ur gonna keep lying why are we talking” when in reality there were ZERO objective lies instead only things he doesn’t believe which we have evidence for (which he also rejects…shocker) Listening to him ask questions and then not let anyone answer is deadass worse than nails on a chalkboard
Cliffe has no point to be made he just spouts irrelevant nonsense, that’s the thing about being stupid you don’t realize it but it’s just infuriating for everyone else, conversely Stuart and Aron always have fine conversations, because Stuart is a lot more genuine than his father, and is able to admit when he makes a mistake
@@MKSAMA. the word evidence and Christian sound ironically incredibly funny together :D
come back with with an argument@@robertylonen1896
Actually Cliffe...in my version of Christian theology, EVERY life form has intrinsic value....
Cliff and Stuart are like “let me misrepresent everything you can say before you say it and then act dumb”