Men Writing Women: Ari Aster
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.พ. 2022
- I plan on making more of these so stick around if u enjoyed x
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i watched midsommar and i assumed ari aster was a woman lol
this!!! i felt it in my bones lol i couldn't believe ari wasn't a woman's name in this case
@@jettopistoru as a woman named Ari, it's actually a predominantly male name, it's just not as modern anymore! It's also a nickname for Harry apparently.
I love the behind the scenes of getting It's Always Sunny to air because the executives wanted a female character. They said they didn't know how to write women or for women and Kaitlin just told them that you don't, you just write another character and trust me to portray it.
the biggest key is that she is just as awful as a person as the guys are.
I feel like just seeing how his female characters dress is enough to tell me where he stands. Dani is dressed comfortably in sweats and loose shirts. Toni is dressed in sweaters, bathrobes and layers. When we see them in different outfits for different occasions, there’s no focus on them. There’s bottom to top shot showing off skin or form fitting clothes. They’re comfy. They’re the clothes you wear when traveling or at home. That always stood out to me. Maybe because I always want to be comfy lol
This is a fabulous observation!! Not even something I'd considered but you're so right - another thing that speaks to the way women see themselves in comfort and private spaces.
They’re also not shot from the male gaze.
So if a woman wears heels and a form fitting dress, she isn’t “real”? I wear calf high boots and tailored dresses…am I “real”? It is comfortable to me. Sweats aren’t.
@@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396 I'm a little confused... I don't think the word "real" is used once in these comments other than your own? I also wear clothes like that. I like wearing them quite a bit, just like... Not on a plane, when I'm depressed or when I'm going to bed. You don't have to wear sweats if you don't want to. The point I wanted to make is that these were outfits that men writing/filming/directing movies don't usually put women (especially their leading women) in. This was most certainly not an attack on any women who wear things that aren't sweats or layers. There is no correlation between clothes and any women's worth, and I'm very sorry if it came across that way. You can wear and be comfortable in anything you want, I can't dictate that for you and neither do I want to. Please understand that this was just an observation that made me, personally, feel safe with Ari Aster as a director of a very exploitative genre.
were in the era of the "strong female" character, which is almost always one dimentional, and unrealistic, its no wonder as women we are more drawn to a multifaceted messy representation because its actually human. rather than some mythical "perfect" fighting woman ...that usually just acts like a man...
Blame the fangirls
Nailed it!
What does it mean to 'act like a man'?
I'm guessing the "act like a man" you mean they "act like men are traditionally written in film"
Really love your insight and commentary on all of this. As a husband to an incredible woman and five daughters, I aspire to truly represent women in a proper way. And, if I’m unable to do so, to have the wisdom to step aside and let them lead and speak freely and truly for themselves.
Again thank you so much- How incredible to be raising 5 girls. Sounds like you're really doing your best to raise them to feel safe and free x
How about you let women represent themselves
@@painunending4610I absolutely do. I can see that my comment was not read fully, or understood. I am simply saying that I am an advocate for women to do exactly that - to represent and lead themselves.
When I said “represent,” I think you may have interpreted that as “I will speak FOR them” in a way that is taking their power.
Instead, I meant that I hope, as a father, husband, partner, friend, advocate, feminist, that if I am to speak or act on anything in any way, that I do so in a way that doesn’t project my own feelings or thoughts, and instead says I am here in whatever way I can be.
I hope you are able to see that not everyone is a patriarchal monster. That there are men that do exist that understand that they don’t understand what women face. I am one of those people. I am so glad and proud to have strong, wise, incredible women in my life.
Wishing you well.
I really love the writing behind Dani. It felt like some relationships I've seen. The way a person can be rendered mute and dumb to really getting any agency in the relationship and someone else can just perpetuate the anxiety because it's better for him to have a captive insecure girlfriend than to be honest and maybe lonely a little.
Also I cannot watch Elizabeth Berkley lick the pole in post pandemic life without having a tiny seizure of terror.
I agree, it's done so perfectly- feels very relevant to many types of complex relationships.
And I hadn't even thought of that oh lord, eeek.
The mirroring scene in Midsommar is deeply uncomfortable
You gotta sanitize the pole first!
You are fantastic. Ari is one of the few men I've seen writing a female protagonist from a respectful, aware, sensitive and very real multi-faceted way that even a lot of female writers can't accurately translate
Midsommar was really cathartic for me, I loved it. Great video :) (The Witch is also one of my favorites; damn good movie, meticulous design and historical accuracy even down to accents, and lots of the dialogue and witchcraft lore sounds like it was taken verbatim from transcripts of witch trials i have read from the 16th and 17th century. No way not to root for Tomasin in the end)
Isn’t it the best!! And yes likewise with the witch, sooo well done ❤️❤️
I don’t think it’s a purposely writing women thing. I think his first two protagonist are just women because they’re horror movies. Notice how as soon as he did a movie that wasn’t, he wrote a male lead. Same with Eggers.
Isn't the Lighthouse a horror movie?
this is super interesting because when I watch Midsommar, I love the movie, but there is this underlying perspective that I'm not quite understanding. doesn't take away my enjoyment, but perhaps it's because I'm a guy and he's really nailing the female perspective!!
Interestingggg- in fairness we don't all click with every movie, but if this did shine some insight on why it works for so many other people then I'm chuffed!
I saw a sort of essay about it long ago saying that it's also about how white supremacists ideals can be subtle and intrusive just like a cult
As a woman I can very much say Midsommar really didn't do it for me so it's not always just bc of that kind of specific gender perspective. I will say tho, I'm asexual and don't really see romance as a necessary thing to live so it's possible as I've never grieved over a relationship the way Ari explains he did when he was writing Midsommar, that that could be where my disconnect happens
Perhaps male artists raised by women have the capacity to express the female experience in a more complex or satisfying way. My father abandoned my family (and mother) in a devastating way. I was raised by mother and my sister and we were in a constant state of hardship. Other men were a mystery to me. Things got very tricky when my mom started having boyfriends... boyfriends that came and went.
This is a really interesting take- I definitely think that men raised by women have a slightly different worldview than men raised in predominantly male households. Sorry to hear about your situation though, hope that you're doing well 💜
This video is really great!!!
I love the way you brought across your point here in such a simple and grounded way.
Thank you so much (-:
Amazing - and appropriately hard-hitting, Rachel!
Thank you Jenny! Glad you enjoyed!
You should read Sam Keith's comics. Some are questionable for sad reasons I won't delve here, but The Maxx and Four Women are superb. I just was amazed on how he adds a layer of complexity that I've never seen before.
Thank you for the recommendation
you are so well spoken :) this was so interesting and thought provoking, makes me want to rewatch midsommar which i didn't think was possible haha
(not that i didn't like midsommar; just not a movie i felt i needed to see again haha)
Thank you, v kind! I actually had a panic attack at the cinema the first time I saw it but it grew to be one of my all time favourites. Good luck if u give it another try x
Love this. Cool video Rachel ☺️.
Eeee thank you 🙏🏻
I love a good breakdown, one that can be over a year old and still read hella fresh. 🤘🏾
hey thank you! always the aim haha
you look so so incredibly beautiful!! I love your insight, I feel like Aster has some kind of trauma with his mother, especially after watching Beau is Afraid.
Thank you, you're so kind 💖 And yesss, I feel like that's probably spot on - I can't wait to see Beau is Afraid!
luv this video! i have to check out all the artists you mentioned
I Love your content and point of view!
thank you sm!
It was such a little thing but the way they shot the early scenes in midsommar that built so much anxiety in me. The camera reminded right at Pugh’s eye level even when it cut off the heads of Christian and his friends . It just made me feel so uncomfortable for her. And it adds so much texture to her early dialogue where she is clearly so devastated but also feels like she needs to be polite around all of her boyfriend’s friends.
Great video, insta sub. Ari Aster is perhaps my favorite filmmaker, with Hereditary and Midsommar being some of the my favorite movies of all time and I loved your perspective on it. Dani in particular felt so real to me, her grief and her pain... Just amazingly portrayed by Florence Pugh (Great actress too).
Would love if you make more entries of this series. A personal suggestion would be a take on how Joss Whedon writes women, since a decade ago he was lauded as some kind of feminist ally who "empowered women" with his characters in Buffy or Avengers movies, but in recent years and after hindsight of him being a creep towars women made everyone realize that his way of writing women was not as good as many thought.
For instance, I despise the scene of that Avengers movie were Black Widow (only female Avenger at the moment) compares herself to a monster because she cannot bear children. Ugh.
Hey thank you!! Ari really is something special.
I'm definitely planning on it- although I've got to say Whedon isn't someone who's film/TV I've ever really engaged with! Buffy has been on the list for a long time. But yes, that's a very uneasy 'nice guy' dynamic by the sounds of it.
These videos are great . . . on a separate note your short hair looks really awesome and cool, wish I could pull that off!
I'm sorry I paused at when you asked how does Ari Aster GET women? And I believe the answer might lie with Beau is Afraid. Mostly Beau is Afraid of the world because of how his mother has guided him through it. Ari must have experiences of women, including maybe a mother like Beau's and draws upon that experience. He has witnessed women having raw dialogue for sure
your tattoos are hard af
dude thank u !
Love Ari, nice video, subscribed
Thank you!
Hey, really enjoyed the video, but I suggest you to read out the quotations out loud, cause I usually watch a video on the background, so do other people and it would be more convenient this way!
Hey, thank you for watching! And note taken, I've started doing this in my more recent videos 🙏🏻
Well put 👏 ❤
thank you 💕
THIS IS SO BRILLIANTTTT HOLY SHIT
Reeee thank you!!!!!
Oooh I love your channel
Thank u!!!
Well after watching this and Beau Is Afraid it makes more sense!
I missed Beau is Afraid in cinemas! Can't wait for it to come out on streaming 🤞🏻
incredible video i have subscribed
Thank you!
seconded
Wow great video!
Thank you 💓
Great Video.
On the subject of Men Writing Women - have you seen any films by Ingmar Bergman? Huge influence on Ari Aster, I believe he got the cast to watch Persona, Autumn Sonata and Cries and Whispers while making Hereditary. Eggers is also a fan of Bergman's works.
Thank you so much
@@rachellydiab I really struggled with Bergman initially, especially with his 50's stuff. I found him a little boring & dry.
Particarly Persona, Hour of the Wolf, The Silence.... felt like some kind of bridging of the gap... if that makes any kind of sense.
I don't quite understand why - but these films felt like the kept gnawing at my "soul", like there was something radically crucial within them that I had to understand...
Incredible, immediate follow
Thank u!!
True
how do I know if I relate to Dani because I'm a woman or because I might have borderline personality disorder lol
Fantastic video. I love Ari Aster and his work. This comment is not designed to be mocking or in any way judgmental. I’m genuinely asking from a point of view learning and creating authentic work. Would you be able to create a full video which gives indication and direction to male writers of how to write positive, well written and authentic female characters. And also show a comparison of when it’s done right and when it’s done wrong. There are obviously always going to be great writers who know how to write female characters, but what are the specific and intricate details which can be applied to do it authentically and correctly? Thank you.
Thank you! This is definitely something I'd be interested in doing- I feel like it would take me some time to really make sure the advice I hd to give was reasoned and useful, but I will definitely keep this idea in the bank so look out for it (-:
Would be interested to know what your opinion is after Beau is Afraid
Good video. I’m currently writing a novel about a Women serial killer with a cry of redemption, as she reflects on her awful child hood. Living with 4 sisters, really helped me what to and what not to say, with their input.
I love this perspective of writing women, its writing women based on their humanity or complexity and not centering around men, as in, they arent opressed by men necesarrally but they still strugle and they arent saved by men or anything like that but they themselves arent necesarrally saved by themselves or arent even saved at all from bad situations, its a form of portraying women as real as it can be, women are, and have for all of humanities existance been 50 % of the population, (sometimes more), so while in some ways they are a minority, it would be extremelly ridiculous to think about their struggles as allways because of opression, like, youre telling me half of all humanity only has one struggle or story or things they are good at or personality or anything? No, there are simply too many women in this world to write them as just fighting opression or being a love interest for the male, its the putting a woman on a situation thats usually not seen in any movies that makes it so good, because it recognises the variety and as i said, complexity and humanity, i think THIS is at least for me, the main factor, the unique situation and personality regardless of if its good or bad
Love love love this, thank you for commenting. It's so right that the idea we can only be a victim or a hero completely takes away from what makes a real women. I hope as time goes on we're able to veer away from these flat representations!
To be fair to Verhoeven, there's no reason to beieve Huppert's character in Elle is supposed to be an average woman.
🖤🖤🖤
Interested to hear your thoughts on Beau Is Afraid?
I feel like I don't have enough cohesive thoughts on it to make a proper video!
I was actually very overwhelmed by it and had to turn it off at points - certainly the 'scariest' aster film for me as peoples unkindness is something I find very hard to deal with. I enjoyed it most when I let go of trying to piece together a logic story, but ultimately I was left feeling unsure of what I was supposed to get from it? Does that make sense?
@@rachellydiabI would love a review of that too.
hey I really like your video, but I could only make it halfway through because the music was a bit loud and distracting to me.
So, Midsommar is fine, but I think his pov of men in the film is underwhelming, which makes his woman feel too dimensional in comparison. I think that’s just what happens when you focus on a character more tho. It’s hard to develop all characters on a deadline.
Makes sense that there is on some level an ability that a man has to write a woman that a woman does not have, and vice versa. Definitely in modern movies it seems like everyone just wants to write their fantasy of how they would like to see their own sex. Like your example of the male fantasy that a woman would ever come to desire her rapist. You are saying that is an example of failing to write the opposite sex but I am saying it is also an example of a failure to write your own sex.
i actually really like this take, you make a great point! I suppose it’s observation as opposed to experiential bias? ty for watching 😊
To me Almodovar fims do feel like women films, one more than others, not all. Maybe it's bc I'm spaniard, and his films are imbued with a lot of spanish culture, form the old towns to the urban modern life.
I think if the topics do not come from his personal experience then he must be doing something many men never do: actually listen to women.
QUEEN SHIT (thanks for acting out the pool scene lmao)
hahahah, just imagine what didn't make it in lol
I like Showgirls. I feel all PV’s films are satire in some way. Elle probably wasn’t.
Showgirls is one of my favourite films, but it makes my thoughts on PV very complicated hahah. I'll definitely talk about his work properly one day!
@@rachellydiab Heyyyy please do! I haven't seen Showgirls, and have basically sworn off PV altogether. I find his work insufferable. Like he uses camp as a way to unblock his shittiest self and call it commentary. But IANAFC, so let's hear it!
BTW, found you from your Men vid, A+ channel
Ari Aster gets way too much credit.
Tell me more! You're not a fan of his?
Oh--do Eggers next! This was a great take on women in midsommar, with even the redheaded cultist surrounded by women while having sex. I want to think about this even more now. (Really enjoy someone who gets me to question even more something I thought I had figured out--but you did.)
I was distracted by the phone--was there a reason for that? Just curious.
Thank you, glad to have got you thinking! Eggers is definitely in line 🤞🏻
My script is on my phone which is why I'm holding it/occasionally reading from it !
Hereditary: woman traumatizes her daughter, daughter traumatizes her son.
Midsommar: guy is a douchebag to his girlfriend, girlfriend gets appropriate revenge by smiling as he's burned alive in pagan ritual
Beau is Afraid: woman traumatizes her son for no reason
Ari Aster truly gets women
just joking I agree with the video, but thought it was funny how they tend to play more of a villainous role than the men in his films
I suppose I don't even think of his films as having villains, because they're all so grey area - but yeah they aren't exactly the typical women you root for onscreen! But would I root for myself, probably not lol
@@rachellydiab yeah I guess in making characters more dimensional comes the fact that they can also become more morally ambiguous, rather than having the female characters play a more passive role as just victims or there to prop up other characters
You might be interested in the script direction for that closing bit in Midsommar:
"A smile breaks onto Dani's face. She has surrendered to a joy known only by the insane. She has lost herself and is finally free. It is horrible and it is beautiful.
CUT TO BLACK."
comment !
Reply!
bruh this youtuber would say strain was about gender not vampires
Ari writes from an experience. Hereditary was about the relationship with his mother, with Peter as a surrogate. Midsommar was about a relationship, with Christian as a surrogate. But it does take mental maturity to know you were Christian in a relationship
Knowing you're Christian is something I think most people wouldn't accept until they're inside that bear 👀
that is how I feel about "Repulsion"- Polanski is such a pig but that film gets it so right
I liked Midsommar. A well written female character isn't the same as a "strong female character" (not that I disagree that there's been a lack of strong female characters historically). Like say Eleanor in The Haunting of Hill House (the original book) she's actually a weak character, mostly pushed around by others and circumstances, but very believable.
There's some flaws to it though that's unrelated to the subject of this video, first the MALE Brittish characters are rather thin I think (Pelle is better). Second his inclusion of random superficial "Swedish" elements make NO fucking sense. Ättestupa? A 19:th century myth, one of the characters even GOOGLES it, which means he should have found this information as the first hit. Blodörn? Something that was mentioned in a few (Norse not Swedish) Viking era sagas and likely a myth as well. An actual neo-pagan cult with specifically Swedish or Nordic folk beliefs would look nothing like what's portrayed in this film.
Totally agree with well written vs strong, it's such an important distinction! And I actually didn't know these details about the supposed Swedish culture - that's really interesting to hear
wait she thinks the lighthouse is a criticism of masculinity
Just as most men don't know how to write women, most women don't know how to write men. There are enough "housewife porn" novels, awkward teen dramas and YA romance novels from female writers to prove my point. As a man, I don't think I'd resonnate much with a sparkly vampire stalker (Twilight) or some abusive billonaire with a sex dungeaon (50 Shades). Are there women who write good male characters in books, TV or films?
I think the women in his films are kind of stupid. I'm actually kind of confused by the praise his female characters get. Am I trying to make my female characters too intelligent? This sounds misogynistic and red pulled or whatever you want to call it but I'm seriously asking this question.
I just watched "Devs" and "MEN" and I was extremely repulsed by most of the choices the women made to advance the plot and repulsed by the plot needing to be weak to cater to the women's selfish behavior.
I expect to get insulted but if anyone has a really answer, I would love that too.
Hey, this is honestly an interesting perspective! No harm (-: I think for me I love the characters Ari Astor creates, even though they may not be intelligent, because I resonate more with emotion than intelligence. I don't need my characters to be smart, I just want them to feel real, like just let women be women and be flawed. I'm interested to know what makes them seem stupid to you though?
I haven't actually seen Devs or MEN (and not saying you don't know this but they are by a diff director, Alex Garland), but I am pretty intrigued to see MEN when its avail as I didn't hugely like the writing of his female leads in Annihilation, and I'm quite compelled by his decision to also tell a lot of female stories across his filmography. I don't think he's been quite as successful as Aster.
Realising now you may not've been referring to the characters intelligence when you said stupid- but yeah keen on your thoughts either way!
@@rachellydiab I was referring to their intelligence but in a decision making way. Yes, they are real in that they are flawed. The flaws show themselves in the women acting with emotion rather than logic in a lot of cases.
I am man (wait!) So in my trying to understand how a woman would like her stereotypes being excentuated in film, I became insulted and thought the writing was bad.
Also you were right and I got my horror directors confused. My argument is for the decline in likeability in the female leads from Alex Garland and my confusion for the recent praise they have been getting.
@@rachellydiab you have to see "men" to know what I am talking about because the characters are simply, man and woman.
That being said, Midsommar rocks and I have no problems with the female lead in that one.
@@haterade5137 idk man i haven't watched it
“I’d rather see a movie made by a woman than one about women heavily guided by men”…. Oh no…. Poor thing had to endure OTHER people wanting to tell stories about men AND women… that didn’t perfectly align with her notions of representation. Imagine being so pompous as to think that your idea of what women should be (should act, should do) is the only meaningful and true way for them to act. Heaven forfend men may want to write books or direct movies that might just portray women differently than how she personally feels on the matter.
Babe i literally just said “I’d rather see” lol, not telling anyone else what to do
Comercial brains trying to be elevated with the woman or with everything, what a trash paradox, just a waste of time
Women moment lol
Men ☕️
Its not difficult to be a man and understand women, you're all, for the most part, highly emotional beings and now in western cultures, untammed emotional beings that take charge. He just expands on that, fleshes it out, but as you can tell the endings are always a disaster. Yes, he definitely understands perfectly well.
Actually, I disagree. It must be incredibly difficult to truly understand women as a man, even more difficult than a woman understanding a man. It would be a mistake for woman to encompass all men as unfeeling or brutish then pretend to understand them. But if anything, living in a male dominated world, it is by far, much easier for a woman to understand the male perspective than the reverse