Beauty is in the ear of the beholder. I spent 3 years making various pre's and amp's, and critically (completely focused) listening EVERY day for about 4 hours. Like a muscle, all this exercise built up abilities to differentiate subtle differences in equipment, but more importantly showed how your state of mind, mood, glucose levels, anxiety levels, time of day can have a very big impact on how music is perceived. I eventually got some kind of fatigue from this and ended up with a warmer less detailed daily hifi system. I have a theory that once a hifi produces a high degree of perceived details, and focuses on fast high frequency dynamics, our attention is turned up to a degree where we get more adrenalin and dopamine feedback which is 'exciting'. But it very much depends on the individual.
Many years ago I attended a guided birding tour for the first time in my life and during that tour I noticed that the guide would stop and start talking about a bird before even seeing it first. He would hear the bird first and then finding it by looking in the direction where the sound came. Then he would point the bird out for us. It's a skill one can develop and take to the next level. Since, I'm able to hear and identify close to one hundred different species of songbirds just by listening. You pointed out brilliantly in this video how hearing works and I thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with us. Much appreciated. Cheers from Canada.
Your best video yet. The next time someone asks me why i spend so much money on audio equipment and hi-res music i will show them this video. I always listen to music with my eyes shut,it really helps the image formation and details. I use my headphone system to listen for fine details that i might miss but once i know they're there i can hear them through the main speakers. It's like you say,if your not looking for them you won't find them.
Not trying to be mean, just want to let you know that you can listen exclusively to the difference between a hi-res track and a CD standard track. By inverting the signal of the CD quality track and playing it at the same time as the hi-res track. The result is entirely inaudible. Make of this what you will. I like audio systems, spend a good amount of money and time on my own as well. But hi-res audio doesn't do anything when listening to music.
No problem ,don't think your being mean,your intitled to your opinion. There is a slight difference between cd quality and high res. There is slightly more depth and width to the image and more space between the instruments. Totally admit it's very slight, but is there. I listen to cds and tidal hi res and will always listen to hi res album on tidal rather than 44.1/16.
@@texfish It is not an opinion though, which is why the information is often dismissed as me being rude. Let me explain the process in more detail. FIrst is loading the hi-res track (calling this track A) into an audio editing software, e.g. Audacity. Then export the track into CD standard 44.1/16 (calling this track B). Load that track B back into the editor, alongside the hi-res source. Then you invert (phase flip) the CD quality track B. You may now export both tracks in parallel into a single hi-res track ("C") and load that track back into the editor. You have now subtracted the CD track from the hi-res one. That last track C contains all the difference between hi-res and CD. You don't have to play that track, you can just do a frequency analysis of it to find that it doesn't contain audible signals below 20kHz. This is not a subjective listening test, it is objective proof that there is no audible difference. You may play the C track to test wether your system is actually producing audible noise from playing exclusively supersonic frequencies, which can happen due to nonlinearities, or at very high levels of gain clipping the amplifier or overloading the speaker.
@Zaparter This is one of a few subjects in hifi world that really divides opinion and i enjoy the discussions as long as its kept civi,l which you have. I think if you have spent £3000 on a new cable, to replace a £300 one , human nature will tend to make you see improvements to justify the outlay of money. It's a psychological thing and maybe there is no difference but if you think there is, can that be seen as improvement? I can hear no difference in cables and bought some reasonable quality ones that will last me a life time. £5000 for a power cord? Don't think so. Vynyl v digital. Which one sounds best? They both sound different and the one you prefer will sound the best. My point is not everything can be measured by machines,the human psyche is more complicated than that. I think it's been proved that humans cannot hear any improvement after 44.1/16 but 96/24 sounds clearer and more open to me even though it shouldn't. I've decided to stop worrying about it and enjoy it😀
Absolutely fantastic video, Harley. Apologies for going slightly off topic, but I find it odd that the musician / audiophile combination isn’t a more common one. I understand why, but being a musician helped me immensely as I got into looking for more resolving gear with accurate tonality. As you mentioned, you do the same when listening to music, you automatically start dissecting details such as instrumentation, tone, time signature, chordal quality, structure, etc. Both audiophiles and musicians have trained themselves to listen to tiny details. Turning that processing off isn’t easy, but when you do, it’s such a wonderful experience just absorbing and connecting with the music. Thank you, Harley.
This gem of a video made me happy! It is a confirmation of what I know to be true but I get the impression that the high-end business is mostly about having the most expensive cables (sorry interlinks) and the largest budget for the hardware. I suggest that people should spend more time in a concert hall to experience the music live and then realise that that will not fit into your room :-) and you can enjoy a reproduction through the ears of hopefully a competent recording engineer and mastering expert using the recording they made. Keep up the good work!
Of all the TH-cam videos I've watched recently this one has stopped and made me think about the basics of listening to music. Harley's videos are always worth making time for.
I have always thought about whether it was better to listen to headphones vs speakers. I personally prefer speakers. they seems to give much more "body and soul" to the music i listen to. Your explanation on Tinnitus is very insightful. Thanks for covering this Harley!
Fascinating, Harley! Your example of hearing your name spoken in the remote group is similar to buying a new car (to extend your story) and, suddenly, seeing every other one on the road. Be well!
I think it's more a case of knowing or recognising what one is hearing than hearing things others can't. I'm a musician. I'm used to listening analytically and can, for example, tell you what the violas in an orchestral piece are playing. Someone else might be equally able to hear the viola part, but because they aren't used to listening analytically, they will hear a piece as a single entity, rather than a collection of strands or parts. What I can do isn't "superhuman". It's just something I've been taught. Most people are capable of learning it. I'm fortunate to have perfect pitch (I can tell you what a note is when I hear it). I can't claim any credit for it. I was born with it and didn't realise until a violin teacher pointed it out to me when I was young. I did used to have quite extended hearing, but now I'm 70, I have definitely lost a lot of higher frequencies. I can no longer hear bats squeaking when I see them flying round the house, whereas I could when I was younger. Interestingly, my partner, who was a few years older than me, could still hear them in her late 60s, but she hadn't spent 50 odd years playing in noisy bands.
Another excellent video. Such a clear explanation of how hearing works. I notice several other people have said they have tinnitus in the comments. Following a severe ear infection, I have suffered for more than 40 years with tonal tinnitus (@6kHz) in the right ear only. It was constant and getting worse, even preventing sleeping. I thought I would never be able to enjoy music again. After extensive searching, I was exceedingly fortunate in finding an audiologist that cared about tinnitus. Firstly properly prescribed hearing aids can help enormously, so if you have not had a hearing test do try this route. In my case the audiologist suggested "notch therapy". This is a relatively new treatment and not all audiologists know of it, it only works for tonal tinnitus and even then only seems to work for the lucky few. I was lucky, I now barely perceive the tinnitus. Stress makes tinnitus worse and relaxing with music is in itself a therapy! Keep up the good work Harley.
Harley, thank you for the great conversation and for creating such an engaging, informative video! This kind of knowledge-sharing is incredibly valuable, especially for young enthusiasts just beginning to build their experience in the field. Please keep up the great work!
I am 23. Ever since I got into the audio world, my only wish has been to experience this magical sound audiophiles talk wonders about, with a proper stereo speaker set-up. Unfortunately, my room does not allow for this to happen. So, hopefully, one day, I will get to enjoy this experience. Excellent video, sir.
Thank you for your kind appreciation. I hope you experience it too, I am sure you will one day. If you are ever near one of our listening rooms, I am sure we can make an appointment for you so you can hear for yourself.
@PearlAcoustics You are welcome. I appreciate the invitation. A little far away from me here in the US. But if I am ever near, I will definitely stop by.
One last point .... I often wonder how many people realize that the classic 20hz to 20khz we banter around has almost nothing to do with our hearing. Way back in the 1940s, a group of engineers got together to analyse music and figure out how much "bandwidth" was necessary to reasonably reproduce it. They studied performances, instruments, harmonics and so on and arrived at 10hz to 10khz. Later studies modified that to the modern 20hz to 20khz based on the lowest piano note at 23hz and the fourth harmonic of the highest note (4,186hz) at 16,744hz. This is not about human hearing. It is about the amount of bandwidth necessary to reproduce music and today it exists as a reserved band allocation on the EM spectrum, just like FM Broadcast Radio and Cellphone channels. Most people actually hear from about 40hz to 15khz with any degree of reliability.
always a pleasure to listen to a wise man, I personally use headphones because I dont have enough space for loudspeakers, sometimes open back headphones can surprise me with sound so real that I would turn my head and see if that sound didnt came from my room
Excellent, as always! Consider this: The phonograph--the first audio reproduction device--was invented in 1877 by Thomas Edison. Imagine in 1877 you walked into a house and could hear a string quartet playing on this new unknown device. You would look around for the string quartet because your brain, having never heard mechanically reproduced music, would 'fill in' the details and make you experience the sound of a live quartet. That is the real power of human psychoacoustics!!!
@@ConsecDesign with all due respect, my point is that in 1877 no human had ever heard recorded music, so your brain would fool you into believing that the sound you heard was coming from a live string quartet because in your experience, there was no other source for that sound. And that's the magic of psychoacoustics: your brain can fool you!!!!
Personally, I think it's about concentration. Losing yourself in the music, listening for every sound, you don't always catch everything in one listen, sometimes it takes multiple listens to complete the full picture. A lot of people, most actually, don't have the patience to listen, really listen. They can't sit there just listening to an album, they have to do something else as well, don't concentrate, don't lose themselves to the music and nothing else, they just can't do it. Personally, I love nothing better than going into my listening room, putting an album on and just sit there listening to the music. Noticing where the instruments in the mix, what comes out of which speakers, the atmosphere of the music, just losing myself to it. Nothing gives me more joy. So many people who know me a little, tend to think I'm weird. Well I'd rather be weird than incapable of listening to music the way it deserves to be heard, especially classical, jazz, avant-garde, prog rock, electronic, experimental interesting music.
Great video. It's really all about training yourself, and room acoustics really matter. Your brain has a way of getting used to the environment you are in. I remember when I was a kid, our family would go camping in the summer for three to four weeks, so over the course of that period, we would hardly spend any time indoors. Upon returning home, the living room would sound so strange, because my brain had totally gotten used to not hearing the reflections. It usually took about a day to readjust.
Wonderful to hear some of your thoughts on the endless topic. Good for you that you are able to find equipment which you can enjoy, even though you have taken a difficult path to achieve it.
Thankyou Harley for this video what you have said has made me realise that not everyone can hear what i hear. They may not be listening or analysing what instruments are actually in the piece of music that are listening to. You have made me so happy that now i know that i am not going mad & i can focus in on different instruments that are being played in a particular recording. As to conversations where you are in a room with multiple conversations are being had i can focus into different conversations whilst having my own one thank you so much for this & god bless.
That’s an interesting one. My old employer told me a story about that. He had the exact same camera as a professional photographer customer. One day they decided to take some pictures of a beautiful landscape. The photographer’s pictures came out much better looking than his. It’s all about knowing what to look for and then, of course, knowing what to adjust to get the best outcome. I have learned a lot about speaker setup over the years, but I still seem to keep learning.
My ears delighted to the lush presentation and warm tone of a gentleman clearly aged with wisdom...I've know a few friends operating ultra expensive equipment in rooms designed for everything except music and they can't hear it and I won't tell them...however I might share this video and wait for a call....nicely done
What an intriguing topic, Harley. Fyne Audio has recently launched a supertweeter which has a 360-degree horizontal dispersion pattern and which covers the frequency range of 20 kHz - 60kHz. Naturally, we can’t hear the sounds it produces, but we can hear the effects they have on the sounds produced by the other, lower-frequency drive units in their speaker systems.
@@PearlAcoustics I have "heard" them at some length in two different systems, both in a decent hi-fi shop's general shop area and its demonstration room. All those listening noticed the same effects, which were quite marked. I'm sure Fyne would send you a copy of the "Supertrax" brochure and White Paper on application. Best wishes.
The tinnitus section was very interesting. I have never seen anyone about mine since I have had mine since birth, to the point I was in my teens before I realized it wasn’t a normal thing. It’s fun that you know your tone in hertz, I am tempted to visit someone to figure it out now. I know it’s really high up there, around the squeal made by old CRT monitors when they turned on. Interestingly it makes me really sensitive to ultra high pitched noises since they, uh, interferes might be a good words, with the constant tone. Don’t get any direction out of it but I can hear certain electronics turn on from multiple floors away.
Thank you for your presentation - I have been suffering with tinnitus too over the last 10 years or so. After a lot of reading I concur with your explanation. Human hearing is a bit of a miracle - think of a flute playing one note, and you place it somewhere between the speakers. When the flute plays at a different pitch due to wave interference between left and right speakers, the flute should move unless placed right in the middle between the speakers. As for a low 40Hz note: your room on;y needs to accommodate half the wavelength in order to have a stab at reproducing.
Mechanics can have a similar ability, hearing when something is off with an engine. A long time ago, I had a dog that would recognise my approach by the cadence of my footfall. There's lots of information encoded into the sounds we hear, provided we develop the skills and aptitude to identify and understand it.
I'm so very glad there exist people as passionate about good audio than I am(with similar tinnitus). I had this little experiment while cutting firewood. I took my plain old two stroke chainsaw and outside house let it warm up untill smooth idle run. Then I walked with it idling inside my apartment having 6m x 6m room (having big traditional brick oven). The difference in clarity and difference in volume is so huge I was immediately converted to understand what the main factor to differencies between listening situations is. 90% of those things is about the room. It is to say that a room is not optional place to execute the speaker drivers. Nothing cannot be done to the fact of pressure bouncing around and one must adapt with some measures. But the good news is that the brain is very high end device to make the HIFI experience work even in that not so optimal condition. (in my experience)The rest 10% of the necessarry factors for excellent audio comes down to having proper power for bass(2x15"+SUB) and digital crossovers. And full range speaker covering 250-6700hz in addition to dedicated tweeters. This is if you need to work on budget system like I'm forced to.
Jackson Browne - The Pretender (1976) Vinyl, Asylum Records, US DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR14 -1.06 dB -18.94 dB 5:50 01-The Fuse DR15 -0.70 dB -19.04 dB 6:06 02-Your Bright Baby Blues DR12 -3.67 dB -18.48 dB 4:08 03-Linda Paloma👈 DR14 -0.89 dB -17.11 dB 3:39 04-Here Come Those Tears Again DR13 -1.65 dB -18.55 dB 3:44 05-The Only Child DR13 -1.21 dB -17.20 dB 3:37 06-Daddy's Tune DR13 -2.02 dB -19.93 dB 2:38 07-Sleep's Dark and Silent Gate DR13 -0.93 dB -18.18 dB 5:54 08-The Pretender -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 8 Official DR value: DR13 Jackson Browne - The Pretender (1976) Vinyl, MFSL 1982, US DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR15 -0.04 dB -17.44 dB 5:47 01-The Fuse DR16 -0.85 dB -19.44 dB 6:02 02-Your Bright Baby Blues DR12 -4.82 dB -19.16 dB 4:04 03-Linda Paloma 👈 DR14 -0.72 dB -17.61 dB 3:35 04-Here Come Those Tears Again DR13 -1.00 dB -17.32 dB 3:41 05-The Only Child DR13 -0.05 dB -15.92 dB 3:34 06-Daddy's Tune DR13 -0.10 dB -17.54 dB 2:36 07-Sleep's Dark And Silent Gate DR13 -0.23 dB -16.75 dB 5:09 08-The Pretender -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 8 Official DR value: DR14
Excellent discussion. First off, it is wonderful to see a young person sitting still and listening intently to audio equipment and music. When I listen to music i often enjoy focusing on the contribution of each instrument and then seeing how it all comes together. Oh, I too suffer from tinnitus. at about 8khz. Perhaps it would be interesting to have a future show discussing this issue - perhaps even introducing Prof Van Rompuy.
Thanks very much indeed for your comment. A good idea about involving the professor… I will reach out to him, it might not be something for him, let’s see.
Good one Harley. 👍. Funny that you couldnt remember the english word for eardrum but knew the Flemish word. I sometimes have it the other way around 😅 As an audiophile who gets older, I try to listen less to my hifi and more to the music. Its difficult to do but seems you can switch easily between both. Hope you do some video about room acoustics too, spealialy what we can do to improve a stardard living room.
Thank you very much for your kind appreciation. It was strange how I couldn’t get the word to front of mind! I did do a video on room acoustics, here Room Acoustics for hifi systems and a pleasant atmosphere th-cam.com/video/Ty4jybJkOzo/w-d-xo.html. And also one on building our listening room. I hope that helps for now?
Interesting video! It does a great job of explaining how people train themselves to listen for detail. I've never thought of my hearing as anything special, nor have I ever considered myself an audiophile. However, I do seem to have a knack for picking up on conversations around me... maybe I'm just a bit nosy.
Dear Harley, I watched this video about a week ago and found it very educational. You do a great job in explaining complex technical issues in an accessible way and jargon free. I learnt a lot! One question on another topic: do you use and/or recommend power conditioners? I ask because views seem to diverge on their utility and I'm not sure whether it is an added value to a system or simply a gimmick (or "snake oil" to use a more "rough" term) . In my case, I use a Supra power strip but was thinking of moving up to a power conditioner. Many thanks in advance and best wishes, Ignacio
Hi Ignacio. Thank you for sharing your appreciation. The topic of power conditioners is complex. A lot of modern equipment have built in power conditioners, and do not need anything additional. Of course the quality of supply can vary. The only time I heard a positive difference was when using one in my home cinema system in front of my very simply designed tube monoblocks. I know this doesn’t help much but one needs to be careful with adding conditioners if they cannot supply enough current. I hope that helps? My system is an Isolate. But as I say, we don’t have one in out listening rooms
The "normal" HiFi bandwidth is already exceeding what most can hear, but for others, it is just the beginning! As a teen, I was measured at 50KHz, the cut off for the lab's tone generator! I am 60 now, and my hearing is still a little funny! I think, the ear, its sensors, and how signals are processed in the brain, are set up in a particular way for most people, but not for all, and that is in the evolutionary variety. Most people are fairly good at hearing the direction a sound comes from, like a bird chirping in a tree, but the frequency they can detect is limited. THEN there are odd balls like me. I always had a tough time figuring out where a sound comes from, having use tricks like turning my head and cupping my ears, but I could hear things at much higher frequencies, that others thought I made up or I was hearing "ghosts". Enter our physics lab in my high-school ("Gymnasium") in Germany in summer break, when I was maybe 16 or so. I talked to one of our teachers, and we set up a hearing test with a sound generator capable of 50KHz. He literally dropped his smoking pipe from his mouth, when I raised my hand as agreed, hearing the final step, a 50KHz sound! (Yes, it was around 1980, and we smoked with our teachers in school!) My hypothesis is thus: Directional hearing depends on detecting phase-shifts between left ad right ear, so you need the ability to detect wave-peaks between normal frequency peaks between the left and right ear. THAT means, effectively, you need to be able hear at least double the frequency you "hear" and more, to locate a peak and its position between two peaks. So, if you can hear up to the usual 12 KHz (average people cut of at about 8 or 10 KHz), and are good at detecting sound direction, your ear actually processes frequencies 2 or 3 times higher, but your brain does not use the information for "hearing" a sound, but detecting where it comes from! Then there are people like me. I can still hear the "depth", a sound "field", what audiophiles call "staging", but the directions are difficult for me beyong plain left and right. Instead of finding directional information, my ear and brain process the high frequency information for hearing humanly "impossible" sounds, like a dog whistle, which I always laughed about, because I could hear dog whistles, when I was young, and it was puzzling to me, why others could not hear them, or the high pitched buzzing of at times outright torturous tube-TV flyback transformers (15 years ago, our call-centre office had the last few tube monitors, and one was so bad, I passed out in pain, when NOBODY else could hear it), and I even heard the ultrasound remote control of my Sanyo TV in the mid 70s! Most people now never even saw one of the old ultrasound 2-button remote controls of many TV-sets, but I could always hear mine buzzing along, when I pushed the buttons!
Hi Harley, I too have tinnitus (20+ years) and would appreciate any advice you have on managing it please. Lack of sleep and high stress levels always make it worse.
Hi. Indeed… it’s a bit too complicated to explain here, it’s largely down to training yourself not to react to it. To relax and not let it bother you. In this way, gradually your brain n suppresses the sound in the way it ignores background conversation. Indeed, when we are tired and it’s quiet or when we are thinking about it (like I am now 😟) it comes back. But when we are concentrating on things ‘more important’ it’s still there but we don’t hear it. I hope that helps a little. Professor Van Rompuy runs special classes on this topic in his clinic in Antwerp, Belgium
It's a little bit like ignoring the sensation of clothing touching your entire body. After we dress we sort of forget or ignore all the clothing generated touch sensations. If we didn't we'd be sent crazy.
Great video. I also have tinnitus in my left ear around the same frequency as yours. I am interested on how you have learned to live with it or adjust to it.
Thanks! it’s a bit too complicated to explain here, it’s largely down to training yourself not to react to it. To relax and not let it bother you. In this way, gradually your brain suppresses the sound in the same way it ignores background conversation. Indeed, when we are tired and it’s quiet or when we are thinking about it (like I am now 😟) it comes back. But when we are concentrating on things ‘more important’ it’s still there but we don’t hear it. I hope that helps a little. Professor Van Rompuy runs special classes on this topic in his clinic in Antwerp, Belgium. You could try reaching out to him. I hope that helps?
I would agree in the main with the content of this video. Where I would tend to pull away slightly from your explanation is with room acoustics and how your auditory system differentiates between direct sound and indirect or reflected sound. Over the last 40 years plus, I have assembled a premium hi-fi system, which reproduces music the way I like to hear it. It’s cost me much time, money, trial and error, but I’ve achieved my goal, or, come as close as I’m likely to get under the restraints of physics and disposable income. The nature of my job is that I have to frequently move. So I’ve lived with my hi-fi in a multitude of listening environments. In every environment it was the sonic characteristics of my hi-fi which dominated the listening experience, not the sonic characteristics of the room. I have also recently invested stupid money in a set of ultra premium headphones. Noteworthy by all reviewers for their neutrality, linearity, clarity and ability to effortlessly retrieve detail. I was astonished as to how close their musical reproduction was to that produced in room by my substantial floor standers. Much like your scenario of the 2 concentric conversations, I believe our auditory system ha has evolved/developed sufficiently to hear what it wants, extract the wheat from the chaff. scenario
Lately I started listening to Dolby Atmos on headphones and I love it,it’s sounds different,better,most of the issues with headphones are fixed. I have my iPod set on always on,for Atmos and even tracks not recorded in Atmos sounds better
I know for a fact that I have a dip in my hearing at 13khz.I paid for a hearing test at the audiologists. I just dialled up the active treble cards 2db. Seems to improve it just enough for me. In addition my listening room is not ideal being only 4m square. However, I do enjoy headphones when I want to close out the surrounding background noise. I too have left ear tinnitus at 8khz that remained after an inner ear infection. I love your explanation of it. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
The longer the distance the more explosive and compressed the initial dispersion point has to be. Otherwise, the leading edge won't have enough phase velocity to produce a textured pre-echo. Ultrasonics, with sufficient directional density, create this wake of silence which effortlessly pulls you in.
It is probably down to awareness. This is certainly true within the world of the recording studio, one learns awareness and then it becomes second nature a bit like when learning how to ride a bicycle or drive a motor vehicle etc etc.
Indeed! I remember one one if my recordings we discovered ima tiny bit of distortion on one very loud note the soprano was singing, I was mortified that I had not balanced my microphones correctly, only to discover that it had nothing to do with them but was down to the singers voice rattling the bar doors if an overhead light on the stage! (The sound was on all microphones, even those well away from her). The mixing engineer discovered it!
What is your thoughts on blind testing? In my "audiophile group" i'm in the very minority of not hearing difference in most gear (primarily amplifiers for now). My friends can hear a clear difference when a/b testing, both in the old fashioned method where cables needs to be switched - it takes 30-60 seconds and also with a "switch box" where shifting between amps happens instantly. All this when seeing and knowing what's playing. When placing a book in front of the displays hiding what's playing, suddenly they can't hear any differences. My conclusion is that there wasn't any audible differences to begin with. Their conclusion is that there must be something about blind testing that somewhat "distort" what's being interpret. Everything we have tested by now goes by the same way. Huge, big, clear difference when the gear can be seen. No differences when the gear can't be seen. What do you think about that? Have you yourself tried taking out the visuals and confirm what you're hearing when you don't know what's playing? Good video btw
Thanks very much for your comment. Absolutely, I have made blind comparisons on many occasions. And have even set up tests discussed in my videos, with sound clips to download. I agree there is a lot of psychoacoustics at work in normal comparisons but with revealing loudspeakers, switching between different types of amplifier (such as Class A, AB and D) and radically different architectures, should be rather easy to detect. I hope that helps?
@PearlAcoustics and you're guessing right everytime in every test? I don't recall seeing a video from you where the full blindtesting process is filmed. Maybe you can link? Me and my friend have pretty good acoustically treated rooms and what we consider great speakers. JBL S4700, Martin Logan f200 and Jamo r909 (have not blind tested with the latter though). The crazy part is that we aimed to start out with amplifiers in very different price points. Mcintosh mc452 against a rather cheap IMG Stage line 1000d and a Michi S5 against the same. My friend claims a HUGE difference when he can see what's playing and the results in blindtest is pretty much 50/50 (out of 20 rounds with unlimited time pr round and unlimited switches back and forth). And my results are all over the place too. But I can't hear a difference when seeing the gear either That's why I have built up a big skepticism when people claim they can hear clear differences between gear. At least amps. My friend has banned blindtesting now because the results destroy his beliefs..
@ hi, I am not saying I guess right every time and I agree, psycho acoustics plays a part. But the professionals I surround myself with, who (like I) listen to lots and lots of systems are skilled at detecting differences. That’s our job! How can one develop loudspeakers (or make classical music recordings) if one has not acquired trained hearing? Even my visitors have no difficulty detecting differences (admittedly with them it’s not always blind). I have no problem with you being sceptical Please understand that we/I am not lying, why would I? The video where I discuss blind testing is my part 2 cd video. Enjoy
@@PearlAcoustics And that's why your opinions and explanations matter a little more to me than other people who claim to hear differences. Because you have experience in recording professional audio👌 Well, you do not have to hear differences between two modern well engineered amplifiers to record/produce music (or develop speakers). But I agree in the well trained ear part. There are certain specific things to listen for and "none-audiophile" people don't have a clue what to listen for without some experience or explanation like you explain in this video. My problem with it all is that my friend (and others) claim that they hear huge and clear differences beforehand and ultimately fail when a book is covering the displays. Wouldn't you call bullshit on that? Or do you have some kind of explanation I haven't thought about? My friend claims that he is getting stressed out and I guess that's a real factor to take in consideration. But not a factor that should make the huge differences completely disappear IMO I'm not claiming that everyone is lying on purpose (that makes no sense, at least if you have no money involved. And I'm not saying that you are lying either). I guess I'm just sceptical until I hear things for my self or someone can prove it in front of me 🤠 Me and my friend are still listening to different gear and continue the hunt for audible differences! Or at least I am hunting I appreciate your time and your willingness to take psychoacoustics in consideration also.
@ hi, thanks for your reply. Indeed, I don’t think anyone is necessarily lying here. People who see ghosts, believe they see them. If they were actually there, that’s another story! 😉 I would be very happy to invite to my listening room to demonstrate a few changes. But hey, it’s about enjoying music. And if one can’t hear the difference between systems, then that’s great, one need not invest much in a system! Enjoy the music. Best wishes from Belgium.
The thing that worries me about single drive unit speakers, is power handling, IMD, dynamic range. I can imagine that on some music they could sound quite nice. However, music with lots of low end and loud, these must be lacking somewhat. Distortion IMD must also play its part. The cone is too small to move lots of air and too big to respond to 15Khz+. I can only think what the IMD is when playing say below 100hz and HF content at 10khz at the same time! I can see music played at lowish levels with mostly midrange content these speakers could truly sound very clean and natural.
Hi Michael thank you for your comment. I can understand your scepticism, however I can assure you that we have solved these issues with our Sibelius loudspeakers. I would love to demonstrate them to you. 😉. I am sure you would be very surprised! Best wishes from Belgium
All very interesting and beneficial, thank you, but I sense a little dig (and rightly so) at the new industry of living room audio equipment reviewers. The reviewers make out they hear night and day differences, but I suspect they’re using audio monitoring equipment, only detecting subtle differences. I’ve made some purchases based on TH-cam audio equipment reviews, but I won’t be any longer.
Oh man you wouldn't believe the crap that gets A+ ratings from most reviewers. Recently a very economical DAC got rave reviews from literally all the usual gang... But, when I hooked one up on my Windows computer it completely crashed the onscreen volume control and keyboard volume buttons. I also took the leap on a pair of desktop speakers that got very good reviews and sitting on my desk they sound like crap. And it goes on and on ... Now I build systems for friends and their friends, I've had to take to testing and even modifying things for them, to make sure they're getting their money's worth.
Thanks for your kind words. I was not aware I was making any digs at anyone. I do try my best to be neutral and speak to the things I notice empirically, while observing the science and understanding my own possible psychoacoustic bias. It’s a complex balancing act!
@ good to know I’m not alone. 😊 There’s a British guy that never/rarely reviews anything available from the main retailers, but rather, he raves about stuff from an obscure brand or small distributor..,.. hmmmm, I wonder why 🤔
That's why when I test a new piece of equipment I have my first impression and I take note of it. Then I listen to it for a week or so and when I switch back to the old one I can check if the first impression was right. I never do continuously switch test. It's no use. I have a nice pair of Grado headphones but they'll never recreate reality the way I like in my stereo system.
@@PearlAcoustics I surely like headphone listening but I much more enjoy speakers. Your explanation of this is spot on. I try to show friends how things sound so much different and better with speakers. They just don’t get it. In headphones there is no sound stage. It’s all just within your head. It is great for hearing little details but doesn’t reproduce a true soundstage and as you have noted…you don’t feel bass drums. It should rock you in the chest when one hits. In cans it is just well…ok. Good talk and well articulated. This is a major hurdle for our industry. This is part of the reason we are getting crap streaming these days. It sounds ok in cans…but in a true listening setup….nope. Terrible in some cases.
Although the reasoning is sound and explains how certain people can distinguish certain differences in sound that other people can’t, it still does not explain the fact that many audiophiles claim to be able to hear things that are not humanly possible. Things like interference or noise way below the human hearing threshold, or certain frequencies well above the human limit. So yes, one can ‘train’ ones hearing to pick up certain nuances, changes or specific oddities. But one can’t train ones hearing beyond what’s physically possible. HiFi manufacturers have capitalized on the confirmation bias of many audiophiles and a certain kind of peer pressure has sealed that deal. If you’d bought something very expensive and exotic, it must sound better, and thus, it will sound better. Because that is the other side of the coin: The brain has the amazing ability to focus on certain sounds, but it also has the ability to make you believe you hear things that are not here. And there lies the difference that distinguishes a true audiophile from the very large group of pseudo-audiophiles. The audiophile which acknowledges the fact that his/her hearing is a very flawed measuring instrument and is content with the fact that a lot of their enjoyment not also comes from the equipment playing the music, but also from their own cognitive biases. Those are the ones that actually listen to music and are enjoying it, instead of fighting hand over fist over which cable, amplifier, dac, etc. is better and why their hearing and equipment is better than those of the people not agreeing with their often very foolish statements.
If you play Led Zeppelins "Stairway to Heaven" backwards, you'll here this: "Here's to my sweet Satan The one whose little path would make me sad whose power is Satan, He'll give you, he'll give you 666 There was a little tool shed where he made us suffer, sad Satan." Especially now that I've told you what to listen for. The Audio Engineering Society has a video were you can read the text on screen, while the piece is played backwards, and indeed, that is what you hear. Of course, if you play your records backwards - You probably ARE Satan...
Thanks for your comment. Indeed the brain can be very easily tricked snd psychoacoustics is a big factor in our hobby. At the end of the day, for me it’s about enjoying the music, no matter what system you listen to it on. When I was very young, I used to love listening to music in bed on my tiny transistor radio tucked under my pillow.
That was a great talk, thanks. I always wonder why a room system is called 2-channel hi-fi to differentiate it from headphones which are as 2-channel as it gets.
Thanks for your very kind appreciation. To be honest, I think the term ‘2 Channel’ applies just as much to headphones as it does listening rooms with two loudspeakers… whatever term, the thing is to simply enjoy the music as best one can.
Hearing is like sight, some people have better hearing than others genetically, just like some people see better than others or smell. There are differences in the way each individual experiences the environment based on the strength and sensitivity of his senses.
Good question: I think if you listen to a good system at say 80 dB or so with music that is calm and enjoyable then I think your hearing will be ok. Whether you hear more than other people, I don't really know. However, if you listen to classical music your hearing may be tuned in such a way that it may be wise to avoid processed pop stuff. 👍
Thanks for the comment. I hope you enjoyed the video? I like a bit of everything, from classical to pop, to be honest. My expectations tend to change depending on the genre!
Another audiophile hearing conundrum I would really like to solve is this: if there are 2 audiophiles, both classical concert-goers, both seeking to reproduce a realistic "live" sound in their homes, they may end up with systems of very different character, yet they will both believe their choice of sound to be closer to their experience of the real thing. What psycho-acoustical or physiological phenomenon is this? Is it possible that we hear live enveloping sound differently to reproduced point-source sound?
An interesting point. Of course there is always conformational bias. However, although live classical concerts always have something a recording doesn’t, too often, concert halls have very substandard acoustics, there’s often no sense of real soundstage because the sound of instruments bounce off in all unpredictable directions, and then there’s the conductor who balances the sound of the orchestra from his, or her, ideal position, so that the audience often hears a very substandard balance, depending on where they are sitting. Just my thoughts on a rainy, Wednesday evening.
@ That's one of the things that make hi-fi an expensive hobby: you must always get the best seats at a concert, otherwise it can be underwhelming compared to listening at home.
1) I seriously doubt audiophiles have super powers. 2) The thesis here is very well presented but flawed by one simple point... We don't hear "sound waves". We hear fluctuations in air pressure. Wavelength has little to do with it since we are actually measuring the rate of change... the frequency... and the amount of change... the volume.
Thanks for your contribution to the topic. Indeed you are obviously completely correct, it’s the fluctuation in pressure. It was the confusion about wavelengths that I set out to cover. Thanks for your contribution to the topic.
interesting. But we live in a post-loudness wars music landscape. Anyone born after 1994 - and say 10 years before - have been conditioned for increasingly crushed dynamic range. The new digital versions of the Cure album has a dynamic range score of DR05. Only 5db range between quiet to loudest. In 1989 the Cure's Disintegration had a DR12. Its 'deluxe' remaster lost 4db of information: DR08. Do you need $00000 hi-fidelity music systems for an acoustic landscape with a dynamic range of DR06 - or below? What exactly can you perceive when eveything is LOUD ALL THE TIME. And not only contemporary releases - but all remasters of pop and rock have applied the 'loudness wars meatgrinder' to the entire back catalogue (with singlar exceptions) - and its these LOUD ALL THE TIME versions that the vast majority of streaming services deliver. I'm not vinyl fan - I don't like pink noise added to the sound wave ("the smooth warmth") of needle scratching against record. But vinyls minor revival is surely (apart from being on point wall decoration options for owners with no record players) has to do with its dynamic range limitations - which prevent crushing dynamics below DR 09 - or the needle will be more out of the groove than in. Its an exceptional technological failure - that for so many years technology produced fidelity improvements - but then effectively created its own version of MAD - mutually asssured destruction. The war happened. Except for orchestral - there were no musical survivors.
True.. I have some classical recordings on vinyl from the 1950's and 60', the dynamic range is unbelievable. I've heard a couple of them "remastered" and transferred to digital, and guess what's gone? I wouldn't be surprised if they also start pitch-correcting and auto-tuning Maria Callas..
@@hansemannluchter643 well in the new remaster of Queen's first album - they have pitched corrected Freddy Mercury's voice. Yep. And crushed the dynamics. And that's what will go forward. Authorised by the remaining members of the band. Why don't they make improvements to Sunflowers, or the Mona Lisa, or have a new go at Michelangelo's David or the Sistine. It's a complete historical travesty. They crushed the dynamics with recent latest remaster of Solti's Ring cycle
I have a question then. When we still had CRT tv's I could hear from meters distance when someone had their TV switched on, I heared the alarm systems in shops, or the systems to keep cats on a distance. The people that joined me for that walk where never bothered by it, couldn't hear what I was hearing. I'm not an audiophile at all and got here by accident but I get disturbed by bad sound so I make sure I get decent studio monitors, headphones and DAC's. I really get sick when I hear unclear sound. Luckily decent hifi equipment costs nothing anymore these days. So I'm wondering if more people get a bit into hifi out of necessity rather than as a hobby.
Knowing how things should sound is how you can tell something is off. You don't even need A/B testing. On headphones I can tell if something is downsampled from 24/96 to 24/48, which Android OS does as standard. Much more difficult but still perceptible are changes in reconstruction filters, where transients and harmonics (distortion profile) seem to be affecting timbre, imaging (focus) weight and PRaT. It would practically be impossible to tell these minute differences on even a well set up speaker system.
@PearlAcoustics You're welcome Harley. I do believe we shouldn't get lost in technicalities, though that is perhaps a lot of what being an audiophile is about. Having heard what is achievable it is kind of hard to go back. I prefer to have a few systems with their own unique character and qualities because you don't always want to be on the edge of your seat or being bombarded with low level detail. I have a video uploaded of a crudely set up and rather modest vintage system using KEF speakers powered by a Sugden amplifier, sounds fantastic.
I have occasional tinnitus- I'm having it now. It is indicative of the ratio of salt to water in my diet. The tinnitus is eliminated by proper hydration and control of salt intake. Theorize that one.
I heard a talk given by rob watts, where he was saying that while we can only hear up to around 20khz steady tones, we can in fact hear up to 80khz, but specifically transients, which aids our ability to locate sounds: I wonder whether this would be why superteeeters are useful. Also, with regards to feeling bass in the chest, I do have one pair of headphones that does it (HD800) but I dont know how they manage it, and its not something I see other people discussing about them... Cool but spooky
I have the 800`s too. And i know what you`re talking about. Never heard it on any other headphone, that`s why i bought them. Best headphone i ever heard.
@@hansemannluchter643 Yeah, absolutely fair point there. Maybe this will all be more relevant when microphones evolve a bit, and hi res recording practices improve
Hi, It’s a bit too complicated to explain here, it’s largely down to training yourself not to react to it. To relax and not let it bother you. In this way, gradually your brain suppresses the sound in the same way it ignores background conversation. Indeed, when we are tired and it’s quiet or when we are thinking about it (like I am now 😟) it comes back. But when we are concentrating on things ‘more important’ it’s still there but we don’t hear it. I hope that helps a little? Professor Van Rompuy runs special classes on this topic in his clinic in Antwerp, Belgium. You could try reaching out to him. I hope that helps?
The biggest difference is between those who have music on in the background…as opposed to someone who sits down and actually concentrates or gives attention to what being played for them.
A blind man named Daniel Kish can echolocate by clicking his tongue, the sound signatures of the reflecting clicks allow Daniel to distinguish the difference between objects say a car or bicycle! I subscribe to the idea that "superhuman" hearing is a thing. Certainly the way auditory information is perceived by the mind is nuanced between individuals. Headphones are the pinnacle of high fidelity reproduction however binaural recording are not standard format yet. Speaker reproduction remains superior for visceral and natural sound reproduction that can rival the best headphones for fidelity when lots of money and acoustic expertise is dedicated to the effort. A sound isolation booth and a pair of high end electrostatic earphones and yeah you're not going to best this level of fidelity with a speaker system without spending a ton of cash! When I compare the bass information on tracks via headphone playback vs. in room speaker playback the fidelity is not even close! It is true that the room acoustics dominate the listening experience via speaker playback.
It's about consciousness. If you never were in contact with the ideas of acoustics and harmonics, like overtones, you never have a chance to hear it. So you have to train it. That's what musicians do all the time. Train your ears and brain. And your knowledge of technology...
Im 60 and lost a little hearing but in a way i still hear better than someone who has perfect hearing. A trained ear is why. I can hear things in music most others cant
nah it’s more common than you think for ppl to pay attention. lots of normal ppl do sorry you’re not super special and realize all the ppl that are mix and mastering engineers, musicians, acousticians etc; we listen for hrs n hrs on end to very very specific things.
I actually have super human hearing. I can hear down to about 15Hz and what annoys me is when people say that I can’t when I clearly can. It’s why I am what you call a “bass music producer” and they’re only a handful on this planet. - I can also hear very high frequencies because I remember a neighbor had a machine that produces high frequencies that are supposed to repel mosquitoes but every time I pass in front of the house it hurts my ears while my friends can’t hear it at all!
Thanks for the tip! Listening to it now (the bass is very deep and clean) 😉And yes the Sibelius can handle a lot of bass. Reggae is no problem at all, for example!
The casual user can only see, feel and hear price, battery, range, design and branding. Majority either lost good hearing aa they grew or have over sensor sensitivity to sound.
Absolutely, I think it’s great and I use it all the time, but it does not project the soundstage in front of you, like musicians in a hall or a well positioned pair of loudspeakers in a room. I think that’s still impossible.
Hi, thanks for your question. I see on the surface that the question is straight forward, but unfortunately it is rather complex to answer! 1. On one level the answer is ‘yes’ if you mean can some designs reproduce the full ten octaves. 2. Many are ‘quarter wave’ designs which are perfectly able to produce very low frequencies for example down to 30Hz. 3. By coupling certain designs with the room characteristics, very low frequencies can be produced ‘in the room’ (we once measured 15hz at 3db down from our median in a trade show room). 4. None of this magic, it’s pure acoustics as per an acoustic double bass or bassoon. 5. The trick is to make the enclosures rigid and without adding coloration. I hope this, in parts anders your question?
I once sat between two 8 to 12 ft horn speakers ( compression not transmission, I guess) . They were driven by a 2 to 3 watt triode amplifier. They sounded unbelievable but would probably break up a lot of marriages. A hole in the wall was knocked out if I remember correctly. They were built by Jeffrey Jackson who now lives in New York somewhere. Thanks for your clarity in presentation.
Absolutely, it does make a small difference but it does not ‘solve’ it completely because for the reasons given in the video, it’s still a very different experience
Some people also use "Equalizer APO" or other software on their computer to create crossfeed in headphones, especially if they are open-back, but unfortunately some effects, in our body can note be replicate.
When you listen to a new piece of gear, you will go from listening to analysing. That’s why it’s very difficult to do reviews. The more expensive, the better it will sound. There has been a test done and audiophile and reviewers came down the list.
Indeed, reviews are so difficult because do much is dependent on mood and expectations and also psychoacoustics. But just because it’s hard, doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a place. Food and art and movie critics have exactly the same challenges.
@@PearlAcousticsThe difference is that food- art- and movie reviewers are aware of the importance of the visuals, and that all three are things you actually can see. You can't see soundwaves. Hi-Fi-reviewers will insist that gold-"cables" sound "warmer" than silver-"cables". That is obviously "listening with your eyes".
It is a curse having good hearing, I can hear a car turning into my street that is over 40 houses away. Also when pile driving is going on miles away I say to people can you hear that, and they say no.
Thanks for the comment! I had a cat that could hear my wife’s car, coming into the street, long before I could! He would run to the front door, and even way before she was insight, a few seconds later her car would come into view!
Yes - very good explanation. The hearing, sadly, degrades with age - very audibly 🤢🤢 So if there's a sense in investing in an expensive system at young ( as soon as financially possible ) age, there is pretty little sense in doing so after ~ 50. I could hear around 18000Hz ( tested ) by my 40s, and around 15000Hz ( also tested ) when I hit 53 🤷♂ And it's not only the top freq. that we loose with age. Rest of the audio spectrum does not get any better either.
Hi, thanks for your comment. Although I get your point to start young, I am not sure I fully agree with you. The most critical frequencies that we are most sensitive to are often still well within the range of our aging hearing. It’s usually only the very upper frequencies that disappear. But I can live with that.
@@PearlAcoustics Well, on the other hand, you may be right - since our selective hearing also degrages, maybe, especially because of that, we do need BETTER systems, as we age 🤔🤔🤔 - A good selling point ☝️😀
Nearly 50 years ago I used to work for B&W Loudspeakers. It wasn't until I stopped listening to the HiFi that I started listening to the music.
Absolutely
Beauty is in the ear of the beholder. I spent 3 years making various pre's and amp's, and critically (completely focused) listening EVERY day for about 4 hours. Like a muscle, all this exercise built up abilities to differentiate subtle differences in equipment, but more importantly showed how your state of mind, mood, glucose levels, anxiety levels, time of day can have a very big impact on how music is perceived. I eventually got some kind of fatigue from this and ended up with a warmer less detailed daily hifi system. I have a theory that once a hifi produces a high degree of perceived details, and focuses on fast high frequency dynamics, our attention is turned up to a degree where we get more adrenalin and dopamine feedback which is 'exciting'. But it very much depends on the individual.
Marvellous contribution to the topic, thanks!
Many years ago I attended a guided birding tour for the first time in my life and during that tour I noticed that the guide would stop and start talking about a bird before even seeing it first. He would hear the bird first and then finding it by looking in the direction where the sound came. Then he would point the bird out for us. It's a skill one can develop and take to the next level. Since, I'm able to hear and identify close to one hundred different species of songbirds just by listening. You pointed out brilliantly in this video how hearing works and I thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with us. Much appreciated. Cheers from Canada.
@@laszlobacs9347 thank you for sharing your story. And Thanks very much too for your kind words of appreciation
Your best video yet. The next time someone asks me why i spend so much money on audio equipment and hi-res music i will show them this video. I always listen to music with my eyes shut,it really helps the image formation and details. I use my headphone system to listen for fine details that i might miss but once i know they're there i can hear them through the main speakers. It's like you say,if your not looking for them you won't find them.
Thank you! Very kind. Nice comment
Not trying to be mean, just want to let you know that you can listen exclusively to the difference between a hi-res track and a CD standard track. By inverting the signal of the CD quality track and playing it at the same time as the hi-res track. The result is entirely inaudible.
Make of this what you will. I like audio systems, spend a good amount of money and time on my own as well. But hi-res audio doesn't do anything when listening to music.
No problem ,don't think your being mean,your intitled to your opinion. There is a slight difference between cd quality and high res. There is slightly more depth and width to the image and more space between the instruments. Totally admit it's very slight, but is there. I listen to cds and tidal hi res and will always listen to hi res album on tidal rather than 44.1/16.
@@texfish It is not an opinion though, which is why the information is often dismissed as me being rude. Let me explain the process in more detail.
FIrst is loading the hi-res track (calling this track A) into an audio editing software, e.g. Audacity. Then export the track into CD standard 44.1/16 (calling this track B). Load that track B back into the editor, alongside the hi-res source. Then you invert (phase flip) the CD quality track B. You may now export both tracks in parallel into a single hi-res track ("C") and load that track back into the editor. You have now subtracted the CD track from the hi-res one. That last track C contains all the difference between hi-res and CD. You don't have to play that track, you can just do a frequency analysis of it to find that it doesn't contain audible signals below 20kHz. This is not a subjective listening test, it is objective proof that there is no audible difference. You may play the C track to test wether your system is actually producing audible noise from playing exclusively supersonic frequencies, which can happen due to nonlinearities, or at very high levels of gain clipping the amplifier or overloading the speaker.
@Zaparter This is one of a few subjects in hifi world that really divides opinion and i enjoy the discussions as long as its kept civi,l which you have. I think if you have spent £3000 on a new cable, to replace a £300 one , human nature will tend to make you see improvements to justify the outlay of money. It's a psychological thing and maybe there is no difference but if you think there is, can that be seen as improvement? I can hear no difference in cables and bought some reasonable quality ones that will last me a life time. £5000 for a power cord? Don't think so.
Vynyl v digital. Which one sounds best? They both sound different and the one you prefer will sound the best.
My point is not everything can be measured by machines,the human psyche is more complicated than that. I think it's been proved that humans cannot hear any improvement after 44.1/16 but 96/24 sounds clearer and more open to me even though it shouldn't. I've decided to stop worrying about it and enjoy it😀
Absolutely fantastic video, Harley. Apologies for going slightly off topic, but I find it odd that the musician / audiophile combination isn’t a more common one. I understand why, but being a musician helped me immensely as I got into looking for more resolving gear with accurate tonality. As you mentioned, you do the same when listening to music, you automatically start dissecting details such as instrumentation, tone, time signature, chordal quality, structure, etc. Both audiophiles and musicians have trained themselves to listen to tiny details. Turning that processing off isn’t easy, but when you do, it’s such a wonderful experience just absorbing and connecting with the music.
Thank you, Harley.
Thanks Nick, that’s great to hear! So glad you appreciated it. Yes, I think we’re on the same wavelength here.
This gem of a video made me happy! It is a confirmation of what I know to be true but I get the impression that the high-end business is mostly about having the most expensive cables (sorry interlinks) and the largest budget for the hardware. I suggest that people should spend more time in a concert hall to experience the music live and then realise that that will not fit into your room :-) and you can enjoy a reproduction through the ears of hopefully a competent recording engineer and mastering expert using the recording they made. Keep up the good work!
Thanks very much for your kind appreciation. And for your contribution to the topic.
Of all the TH-cam videos I've watched recently this one has stopped and made me think about the basics of listening to music. Harley's videos are always worth making time for.
Thank you very much for taking the time to respond with your kind appreciation. Were so glad you enjoy our videos
I have always thought about whether it was better to listen to headphones vs speakers. I personally prefer speakers. they seems to give much more "body and soul" to the music i listen to. Your explanation on Tinnitus is very insightful. Thanks for covering this Harley!
You’re very welcome. Glad you enjoyed it
Fascinating, Harley! Your example of hearing your name spoken in the remote group is similar to buying a new car (to extend your story) and, suddenly, seeing every other one on the road.
Be well!
Good point!
I think it's more a case of knowing or recognising what one is hearing than hearing things others can't. I'm a musician. I'm used to listening analytically and can, for example, tell you what the violas in an orchestral piece are playing. Someone else might be equally able to hear the viola part, but because they aren't used to listening analytically, they will hear a piece as a single entity, rather than a collection of strands or parts. What I can do isn't "superhuman". It's just something I've been taught. Most people are capable of learning it. I'm fortunate to have perfect pitch (I can tell you what a note is when I hear it). I can't claim any credit for it. I was born with it and didn't realise until a violin teacher pointed it out to me when I was young. I did used to have quite extended hearing, but now I'm 70, I have definitely lost a lot of higher frequencies. I can no longer hear bats squeaking when I see them flying round the house, whereas I could when I was younger. Interestingly, my partner, who was a few years older than me, could still hear them in her late 60s, but she hadn't spent 50 odd years playing in noisy bands.
Thanks for sharing your experience here. Best wishes
Another excellent video. Such a clear explanation of how hearing works. I notice several other people have said they have tinnitus in the comments. Following a severe ear infection, I have suffered for more than 40 years with tonal tinnitus (@6kHz) in the right ear only. It was constant and getting worse, even preventing sleeping. I thought I would never be able to enjoy music again. After extensive searching, I was exceedingly fortunate in finding an audiologist that cared about tinnitus. Firstly properly prescribed hearing aids can help enormously, so if you have not had a hearing test do try this route. In my case the audiologist suggested "notch therapy". This is a relatively new treatment and not all audiologists know of it, it only works for tonal tinnitus and even then only seems to work for the lucky few. I was lucky, I now barely perceive the tinnitus.
Stress makes tinnitus worse and relaxing with music is in itself a therapy! Keep up the good work Harley.
Thank you. Much appreciated. And thank you too for your interesting addition to the thread
Harley, thank you for the great conversation and for creating such an engaging, informative video!
This kind of knowledge-sharing is incredibly valuable, especially for young enthusiasts just beginning to build their experience in the field.
Please keep up the great work!
You are so welcome! Thanks for your motivational appreciation
I am 23. Ever since I got into the audio world, my only wish has been to experience this magical sound audiophiles talk wonders about, with a proper stereo speaker set-up. Unfortunately, my room does not allow for this to happen. So, hopefully, one day, I will get to enjoy this experience. Excellent video, sir.
Thank you for your kind appreciation. I hope you experience it too, I am sure you will one day. If you are ever near one of our listening rooms, I am sure we can make an appointment for you so you can hear for yourself.
Join local audio club 😊
Please be careful with your ears. Always try to listen to music on lower volume if possible, because you don't want to end up with tinnitus!
@PearlAcoustics You are welcome. I appreciate the invitation. A little far away from me here in the US. But if I am ever near, I will definitely stop by.
@SpykerSpeed Thank you for your advice. I always do my best to keep things at a moderate volume.
One last point ....
I often wonder how many people realize that the classic 20hz to 20khz we banter around has almost nothing to do with our hearing.
Way back in the 1940s, a group of engineers got together to analyse music and figure out how much "bandwidth" was necessary to reasonably reproduce it. They studied performances, instruments, harmonics and so on and arrived at 10hz to 10khz. Later studies modified that to the modern 20hz to 20khz based on the lowest piano note at 23hz and the fourth harmonic of the highest note (4,186hz) at 16,744hz.
This is not about human hearing. It is about the amount of bandwidth necessary to reproduce music and today it exists as a reserved band allocation on the EM spectrum, just like FM Broadcast Radio and Cellphone channels.
Most people actually hear from about 40hz to 15khz with any degree of reliability.
Thank you for your interesting contribution. I do remember in my youth as 16Hz being considered a very adequate upper level.
@@PearlAcoustics
And it still is.
always a pleasure to listen to a wise man, I personally use headphones because I dont have enough space for loudspeakers, sometimes open back headphones can surprise me with sound so real that I would turn my head and see if that sound didnt came from my room
Thanks 😀👍. Headphones can be very impressive indeed.
Excellent, as always! Consider this: The phonograph--the first audio reproduction device--was invented in 1877 by Thomas Edison. Imagine in 1877 you walked into a house and could hear a string quartet playing on this new unknown device. You would look around for the string quartet because your brain, having never heard mechanically reproduced music, would 'fill in' the details and make you experience the sound of a live quartet. That is the real power of human psychoacoustics!!!
@@RobertChampion1 that’s an excellent analogy. Thanks 🙏
I get your point, but if you've ever heard a phonograph, I don't think anyone is confusing the sound of a phonograph with an actual string quartet
@@ConsecDesign with all due respect, my point is that in 1877 no human had ever heard recorded music, so your brain would fool you into believing that the sound you heard was coming from a live string quartet because in your experience, there was no other source for that sound. And that's the magic of psychoacoustics: your brain can fool you!!!!
@ indeed!
Personally, I think it's about concentration. Losing yourself in the music, listening for every sound, you don't always catch everything in one listen, sometimes it takes multiple listens to complete the full picture.
A lot of people, most actually, don't have the patience to listen, really listen. They can't sit there just listening to an album, they have to do something else as well, don't concentrate, don't lose themselves to the music and nothing else, they just can't do it.
Personally, I love nothing better than going into my listening room, putting an album on and just sit there listening to the music. Noticing where the instruments in the mix, what comes out of which speakers, the atmosphere of the music, just losing myself to it. Nothing gives me more joy.
So many people who know me a little, tend to think I'm weird.
Well I'd rather be weird than incapable of listening to music the way it deserves to be heard, especially classical, jazz, avant-garde, prog rock, electronic, experimental interesting music.
Thanks for sharing. Enjoy the music!
You described it so well. Exactly what I enjoy about listening to music
Multitasking in our modern society is annoying. Especially when it comes to streaming music.
@@webmarketing40
True enough ... people just don't know how to relax anymore.
yes it’s about that and not anatomy or gear!
I always have the highest expectations when it comes to content and execution of your videos, you nailed it again👍
Thank you. That’s very kind. I will continue to try and meet your expectations…. Glad you enjoyed it. Best wishes from Belgium
Great video. It's really all about training yourself, and room acoustics really matter. Your brain has a way of getting used to the environment you are in. I remember when I was a kid, our family would go camping in the summer for three to four weeks, so over the course of that period, we would hardly spend any time indoors. Upon returning home, the living room would sound so strange, because my brain had totally gotten used to not hearing the reflections. It usually took about a day to readjust.
Fascinating 🙏🙏
Dear Harley, thanks a lot for such a fascinating journey into the world of our head. Just amazing.
You’re very welcome. Thanks for sharing your appreciation
Wonderful to hear some of your thoughts on the endless topic. Good for you that you are able to find equipment which you can enjoy, even though you have taken a difficult path to achieve it.
Thanks so much!
Another great video. I too have tinnitus in my left ear since 1975 but you learn to live with it.
Thanks. Indeed….
Thankyou Harley for this video what you have said has made me realise that not everyone can hear what i hear. They may not be listening or analysing what instruments are actually in the piece of music that are listening to. You have made me so happy that now i know that i am not going mad & i can focus in on different instruments that are being played in a particular recording. As to conversations where you are in a room with multiple conversations are being had i can focus into different conversations whilst having my own one thank you so much for this & god bless.
You’re very welcome. Enjoy the music
can a professional photographer see more than an amateur? No, he just knows better what to look for.
That’s a good analogy. Thanks for sharing
Few can, most definitely not. You only have to look at most photography that’s done on TH-cam. Reviewers are usually the worst.
@@r423fplip Without Photoshop most of them would be lost.
That’s an interesting one. My old employer told me a story about that. He had the exact same camera as a professional photographer customer. One day they decided to take some pictures of a beautiful landscape. The photographer’s pictures came out much better looking than his. It’s all about knowing what to look for and then, of course, knowing what to adjust to get the best outcome.
I have learned a lot about speaker setup over the years, but I still seem to keep learning.
There were people who told me that musicians or people who play the piano know better how to appreciate and comment on a hi-fi system.
My ears delighted to the lush presentation and warm tone of a gentleman clearly aged with wisdom...I've know a few friends operating ultra expensive equipment in rooms designed for everything except music and they can't hear it and I won't tell them...however I might share this video and wait for a call....nicely done
Thanks, very kind! 😀
What an intriguing topic, Harley. Fyne Audio has recently launched a supertweeter which has a 360-degree horizontal dispersion pattern and which covers the frequency range of 20 kHz - 60kHz. Naturally, we can’t hear the sounds it produces, but we can hear the effects they have on the sounds produced by the other, lower-frequency drive units in their speaker systems.
Thanks for your comment. I have never heard a super tweeter in my own system and have always been a bit sceptical! I will have to try one, one day!
@@PearlAcoustics I have "heard" them at some length in two different systems, both in a decent hi-fi shop's general shop area and its demonstration room. All those listening noticed the same effects, which were quite marked. I'm sure Fyne would send you a copy of the "Supertrax" brochure and White Paper on application.
Best wishes.
@ thanks for the update. I will reach out to them.
The tinnitus section was very interesting. I have never seen anyone about mine since I have had mine since birth, to the point I was in my teens before I realized it wasn’t a normal thing.
It’s fun that you know your tone in hertz, I am tempted to visit someone to figure it out now. I know it’s really high up there, around the squeal made by old CRT monitors when they turned on.
Interestingly it makes me really sensitive to ultra high pitched noises since they, uh, interferes might be a good words, with the constant tone. Don’t get any direction out of it but I can hear certain electronics turn on from multiple floors away.
Thank you for your presentation - I have been suffering with tinnitus too over the last 10 years or so. After a lot of reading I concur with your explanation. Human hearing is a bit of a miracle - think of a flute playing one note, and you place it somewhere between the speakers. When the flute plays at a different pitch due to wave interference between left and right speakers, the flute should move unless placed right in the middle between the speakers. As for a low 40Hz note: your room on;y needs to accommodate half the wavelength in order to have a stab at reproducing.
Thanks for sharing your kind appreciation
Mechanics can have a similar ability, hearing when something is off with an engine.
A long time ago, I had a dog that would recognise my approach by the cadence of my footfall.
There's lots of information encoded into the sounds we hear, provided we develop the skills and aptitude to identify and understand it.
Absolutely! Thanks for this interesting example Adam! Best wishes from Belgium
I'm so very glad there exist people as passionate about good audio than I am(with similar tinnitus). I had this little experiment while cutting firewood. I took my plain old two stroke chainsaw and outside house let it warm up untill smooth idle run. Then I walked with it idling inside my apartment having 6m x 6m room (having big traditional brick oven). The difference in clarity and difference in volume is so huge I was immediately converted to understand what the main factor to differencies between listening situations is. 90% of those things is about the room. It is to say that a room is not optional place to execute the speaker drivers. Nothing cannot be done to the fact of pressure bouncing around and one must adapt with some measures. But the good news is that the brain is very high end device to make the HIFI experience work even in that not so optimal condition.
(in my experience)The rest 10% of the necessarry factors for excellent audio comes down to having proper power for bass(2x15"+SUB) and digital crossovers. And full range speaker covering 250-6700hz in addition to dedicated tweeters. This is if you need to work on budget system like I'm forced to.
Thank you very much for sharing your experience here.
Interesting talk, delivered in a way that won't irk anyone. Thank you!
Thank you! 🙏
Excellent video. It was very educational and filled quite a few gaps in my knowledge.
Looking forward to the next one.
Glad you enjoyed it! That’s very kind
A fantastic educational video. Many thanks Harley.
Glad you liked it!c🙏
Fabulous explanation, a great video.
Many thanks!
Jackson Browne - The Pretender (1976) Vinyl, Asylum Records, US
DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR14 -1.06 dB -18.94 dB 5:50 01-The Fuse
DR15 -0.70 dB -19.04 dB 6:06 02-Your Bright Baby Blues
DR12 -3.67 dB -18.48 dB 4:08 03-Linda Paloma👈
DR14 -0.89 dB -17.11 dB 3:39 04-Here Come Those Tears Again
DR13 -1.65 dB -18.55 dB 3:44 05-The Only Child
DR13 -1.21 dB -17.20 dB 3:37 06-Daddy's Tune
DR13 -2.02 dB -19.93 dB 2:38 07-Sleep's Dark and Silent Gate
DR13 -0.93 dB -18.18 dB 5:54 08-The Pretender
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of tracks: 8
Official DR value: DR13
Jackson Browne - The Pretender (1976) Vinyl, MFSL 1982, US
DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR15 -0.04 dB -17.44 dB 5:47 01-The Fuse
DR16 -0.85 dB -19.44 dB 6:02 02-Your Bright Baby Blues
DR12 -4.82 dB -19.16 dB 4:04 03-Linda Paloma 👈
DR14 -0.72 dB -17.61 dB 3:35 04-Here Come Those Tears Again
DR13 -1.00 dB -17.32 dB 3:41 05-The Only Child
DR13 -0.05 dB -15.92 dB 3:34 06-Daddy's Tune
DR13 -0.10 dB -17.54 dB 2:36 07-Sleep's Dark And Silent Gate
DR13 -0.23 dB -16.75 dB 5:09 08-The Pretender
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of tracks: 8
Official DR value: DR14
It's almost tragic how vinyl can often have a superior dynamic range than CD due to the ridiculous amounts of compression they can apply to digital.
Absolutely a fantastic episode! You understand deeply and explain simply!
Thank you! I do my best
What an excellent talk. Thanks Harley - you bring great insight into this mysterious and intriguing subject!
Thank you Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent discussion. First off, it is wonderful to see a young person sitting still and listening intently to audio equipment and music. When I listen to music i often enjoy focusing on the contribution of each instrument and then seeing how it all comes together. Oh, I too suffer from tinnitus. at about 8khz. Perhaps it would be interesting to have a future show discussing this issue - perhaps even introducing Prof Van Rompuy.
Thanks very much indeed for your comment. A good idea about involving the professor… I will reach out to him, it might not be something for him, let’s see.
What a wonderful explanation, thank you! 😊
You're very welcome! 🙏
Good one Harley. 👍. Funny that you couldnt remember the english word for eardrum but knew the Flemish word. I sometimes have it the other way around 😅
As an audiophile who gets older, I try to listen less to my hifi and more to the music. Its difficult to do but seems you can switch easily between both.
Hope you do some video about room acoustics too, spealialy what we can do to improve a stardard living room.
Thank you very much for your kind appreciation. It was strange how I couldn’t get the word to front of mind! I did do a video on room acoustics, here Room Acoustics for hifi systems and a pleasant atmosphere
th-cam.com/video/Ty4jybJkOzo/w-d-xo.html. And also one on building our listening room. I hope that helps for now?
The Fabulous Mr Harley !
Thank you again
😀🙏
Interesting video! It does a great job of explaining how people train themselves to listen for detail. I've never thought of my hearing as anything special, nor have I ever considered myself an audiophile. However, I do seem to have a knack for picking up on conversations around me... maybe I'm just a bit nosy.
😉 - I think the word you were looking for is ‘curious’ - thanks for your kind appreciation
Dear Harley, I watched this video about a week ago and found it very educational. You do a great job in explaining complex technical issues in an accessible way and jargon free. I learnt a lot! One question on another topic: do you use and/or recommend power conditioners? I ask because views seem to diverge on their utility and I'm not sure whether it is an added value to a system or simply a gimmick (or "snake oil" to use a more "rough" term) . In my case, I use a Supra power strip but was thinking of moving up to a power conditioner. Many thanks in advance and best wishes, Ignacio
Hi Ignacio. Thank you for sharing your appreciation. The topic of power conditioners is complex. A lot of modern equipment have built in power conditioners, and do not need anything additional. Of course the quality of supply can vary. The only time I heard a positive difference was when using one in my home cinema system in front of my very simply designed tube monoblocks. I know this doesn’t help much but one needs to be careful with adding conditioners if they cannot supply enough current. I hope that helps? My system is an Isolate. But as I say, we don’t have one in out listening rooms
@ Thanks so much for your reply and the advice, Harley. Much appreciated! Regards, Ignacio
I love. The information and the passion. Thanks
Thanks! 🙏
The "normal" HiFi bandwidth is already exceeding what most can hear, but for others, it is just the beginning! As a teen, I was measured at 50KHz, the cut off for the lab's tone generator!
I am 60 now, and my hearing is still a little funny! I think, the ear, its sensors, and how signals are processed in the brain, are set up in a particular way for most people, but not for all, and that is in the evolutionary variety.
Most people are fairly good at hearing the direction a sound comes from, like a bird chirping in a tree, but the frequency they can detect is limited.
THEN there are odd balls like me. I always had a tough time figuring out where a sound comes from, having use tricks like turning my head and cupping my ears, but I could hear things at much higher frequencies, that others thought I made up or I was hearing "ghosts".
Enter our physics lab in my high-school ("Gymnasium") in Germany in summer break, when I was maybe 16 or so.
I talked to one of our teachers, and we set up a hearing test with a sound generator capable of 50KHz.
He literally dropped his smoking pipe from his mouth, when I raised my hand as agreed, hearing the final step, a 50KHz sound! (Yes, it was around 1980, and we smoked with our teachers in school!)
My hypothesis is thus:
Directional hearing depends on detecting phase-shifts between left ad right ear, so you need the ability to detect wave-peaks between normal frequency peaks between the left and right ear. THAT means, effectively, you need to be able hear at least double the frequency you "hear" and more, to locate a peak and its position between two peaks. So, if you can hear up to the usual 12 KHz (average people cut of at about 8 or 10 KHz), and are good at detecting sound direction, your ear actually processes frequencies 2 or 3 times higher, but your brain does not use the information for "hearing" a sound, but detecting where it comes from!
Then there are people like me. I can still hear the "depth", a sound "field", what audiophiles call "staging", but the directions are difficult for me beyong plain left and right. Instead of finding directional information, my ear and brain process the high frequency information for hearing humanly "impossible" sounds, like a dog whistle, which I always laughed about, because I could hear dog whistles, when I was young, and it was puzzling to me, why others could not hear them, or the high pitched buzzing of at times outright torturous tube-TV flyback transformers (15 years ago, our call-centre office had the last few tube monitors, and one was so bad, I passed out in pain, when NOBODY else could hear it), and I even heard the ultrasound remote control of my Sanyo TV in the mid 70s!
Most people now never even saw one of the old ultrasound 2-button remote controls of many TV-sets, but I could always hear mine buzzing along, when I pushed the buttons!
Brilliant! Thanks again! What a pleasure to listen to you.
My pleasure! Glad you enjoy my talks
Hi Harley, I too have tinnitus (20+ years) and would appreciate any advice you have on managing it please. Lack of sleep and high stress levels always make it worse.
Hi. Indeed… it’s a bit too complicated to explain here, it’s largely down to training yourself not to react to it. To relax and not let it bother you. In this way, gradually your brain n suppresses the sound in the way it ignores background conversation. Indeed, when we are tired and it’s quiet or when we are thinking about it (like I am now 😟) it comes back. But when we are concentrating on things ‘more important’ it’s still there but we don’t hear it. I hope that helps a little. Professor Van Rompuy runs special classes on this topic in his clinic in Antwerp, Belgium
Many thanks for sharing Harley, yes just the very mention of it notches the volume up! I will look into the professor's work ❤
@@PearlAcousticsare these classes open for general public?
It's a little bit like ignoring the sensation of clothing touching your entire body. After we dress we sort of forget or ignore all the clothing generated touch sensations. If we didn't we'd be sent crazy.
@ nice analogy!
Great video. I also have tinnitus in my left ear around the same frequency as yours. I am interested on how you have learned to live with it or adjust to it.
Thanks! it’s a bit too complicated
to explain here, it’s largely down to training yourself not to react to it. To relax and not let it bother you. In this way, gradually your brain suppresses the sound in the same way it ignores background conversation. Indeed, when we are tired and it’s quiet or when we are thinking about it (like I am now 😟) it comes back. But when we are concentrating on things ‘more important’ it’s still there but we don’t hear it. I hope that helps a little. Professor Van Rompuy runs special classes on this topic in his clinic in Antwerp, Belgium. You could try reaching out to him. I hope that helps?
I would agree in the main with the content of this video. Where I would tend to pull away slightly from your explanation is with room acoustics and how your auditory system differentiates between direct sound and indirect or reflected sound.
Over the last 40 years plus, I have assembled a premium hi-fi system, which reproduces music the way I like to hear it. It’s cost me much time, money, trial and error, but I’ve achieved my goal, or, come as close as I’m likely to get under the restraints of physics and disposable income. The nature of my job is that I have to frequently move. So I’ve lived with my hi-fi in a multitude of listening environments. In every environment it was the sonic characteristics of my hi-fi which dominated the listening experience, not the sonic characteristics of the room. I have also recently invested stupid money in a set of ultra premium headphones. Noteworthy by all reviewers for their neutrality, linearity, clarity and ability to effortlessly retrieve detail. I was astonished as to how close their musical reproduction was to that produced in room by my substantial floor standers. Much like your scenario of the 2 concentric conversations, I believe our auditory system ha has evolved/developed sufficiently to hear what it wants, extract the wheat from the chaff.
scenario
Thanks for your comment, it seems you have acquired an amazing system. Thanks for sharing
Lately I started listening to Dolby Atmos on headphones and I love it,it’s sounds different,better,most of the issues with headphones are fixed. I have my iPod set on always on,for Atmos and even tracks not recorded in Atmos sounds better
Thanks for sharing
Thanks! I learn so much from this talk and enjoy it.
I'm so glad! Best wishes to you!
This video is very educational as usual. Thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I know for a fact that I have a dip in my hearing at 13khz.I paid for a hearing test at the audiologists. I just dialled up the active treble cards 2db. Seems to improve it just enough for me. In addition my listening room is not ideal being only 4m square. However, I do enjoy headphones when I want to close out the surrounding background noise.
I too have left ear tinnitus at 8khz that remained after an inner ear infection. I love your explanation of it. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Thanks for your kind words and for sharing your story
That was solid information very well delivered.
Much appreciated!
Good on you, Harley!… And we don’t say that frequently here in New Jersey :-)
Thanks! Very kind
The longer the distance the more explosive and compressed the initial dispersion point has to be. Otherwise, the leading edge won't have enough phase velocity to produce a textured pre-echo.
Ultrasonics, with sufficient directional density, create this wake of silence which effortlessly pulls you in.
It is probably down to awareness.
This is certainly true within the
world of the recording studio, one
learns awareness and then it
becomes second nature a bit like
when learning how to ride a bicycle
or drive a motor vehicle etc etc.
Indeed! I remember one one if my recordings we discovered ima tiny bit of distortion on one very loud note the soprano was singing, I was mortified that I had not balanced my microphones correctly, only to discover that it had nothing to do with them but was down to the singers voice rattling the bar doors if an overhead light on the stage! (The sound was on all microphones, even those well away from her). The mixing engineer discovered it!
What is your thoughts on blind testing? In my "audiophile group" i'm in the very minority of not hearing difference in most gear (primarily amplifiers for now). My friends can hear a clear difference when a/b testing, both in the old fashioned method where cables needs to be switched - it takes 30-60 seconds and also with a "switch box" where shifting between amps happens instantly. All this when seeing and knowing what's playing.
When placing a book in front of the displays hiding what's playing, suddenly they can't hear any differences.
My conclusion is that there wasn't any audible differences to begin with. Their conclusion is that there must be something about blind testing that somewhat "distort" what's being interpret.
Everything we have tested by now goes by the same way. Huge, big, clear difference when the gear can be seen. No differences when the gear can't be seen.
What do you think about that? Have you yourself tried taking out the visuals and confirm what you're hearing when you don't know what's playing?
Good video btw
Thanks very much for your comment. Absolutely, I have made blind comparisons on many occasions. And have even set up tests discussed in my videos, with sound clips to download.
I agree there is a lot of psychoacoustics at work in normal comparisons but with revealing loudspeakers, switching between different types of amplifier (such as Class A, AB and D) and radically different architectures, should be rather easy to detect. I hope that helps?
@PearlAcoustics and you're guessing right everytime in every test? I don't recall seeing a video from you where the full blindtesting process is filmed. Maybe you can link?
Me and my friend have pretty good acoustically treated rooms and what we consider great speakers. JBL S4700, Martin Logan f200 and Jamo r909 (have not blind tested with the latter though).
The crazy part is that we aimed to start out with amplifiers in very different price points. Mcintosh mc452 against a rather cheap IMG Stage line 1000d and a Michi S5 against the same. My friend claims a HUGE difference when he can see what's playing and the results in blindtest is pretty much 50/50 (out of 20 rounds with unlimited time pr round and unlimited switches back and forth). And my results are all over the place too. But I can't hear a difference when seeing the gear either
That's why I have built up a big skepticism when people claim they can hear clear differences between gear. At least amps.
My friend has banned blindtesting now because the results destroy his beliefs..
@ hi, I am not saying I guess right every time and I agree, psycho acoustics plays a part. But the professionals I surround myself with, who (like I) listen to lots and lots of systems are skilled at detecting differences. That’s our job! How can one develop loudspeakers (or make classical music recordings) if one has not acquired trained hearing? Even my visitors have no difficulty detecting differences (admittedly with them it’s not always blind).
I have no problem with you being sceptical Please understand that we/I am not lying, why would I? The video where I discuss blind testing is my part 2 cd video. Enjoy
@@PearlAcoustics And that's why your opinions and explanations matter a little more to me than other people who claim to hear differences. Because you have experience in recording professional audio👌
Well, you do not have to hear differences between two modern well engineered amplifiers to record/produce music (or develop speakers). But I agree in the well trained ear part. There are certain specific things to listen for and "none-audiophile" people don't have a clue what to listen for without some experience or explanation like you explain in this video.
My problem with it all is that my friend (and others) claim that they hear huge and clear differences beforehand and ultimately fail when a book is covering the displays.
Wouldn't you call bullshit on that? Or do you have some kind of explanation I haven't thought about? My friend claims that he is getting stressed out and I guess that's a real factor to take in consideration. But not a factor that should make the huge differences completely disappear IMO
I'm not claiming that everyone is lying on purpose (that makes no sense, at least if you have no money involved. And I'm not saying that you are lying either). I guess I'm just sceptical until I hear things for my self or someone can prove it in front of me 🤠
Me and my friend are still listening to different gear and continue the hunt for audible differences! Or at least I am hunting
I appreciate your time and your willingness to take psychoacoustics in consideration also.
@ hi, thanks for your reply. Indeed, I don’t think anyone is necessarily lying here. People who see ghosts, believe they see them. If they were actually there, that’s another story! 😉 I would be very happy to invite to my listening room to demonstrate a few changes. But hey, it’s about enjoying music. And if one can’t hear the difference between systems, then that’s great, one need not invest much in a system! Enjoy the music. Best wishes from Belgium.
The thing that worries me about single drive unit speakers, is power handling, IMD, dynamic range. I can imagine that on some music they could sound quite nice. However, music with lots of low end and loud, these must be lacking somewhat. Distortion IMD must also play its part. The cone is too small to move lots of air and too big to respond to 15Khz+. I can only think what the IMD is when playing say below 100hz and HF content at 10khz at the same time! I can see music played at lowish levels with mostly midrange content these speakers could truly sound very clean and natural.
Hi Michael thank you for your comment. I can understand your scepticism, however I can assure you that we have solved these issues with our Sibelius loudspeakers. I would love to demonstrate them to you. 😉. I am sure you would be very surprised! Best wishes from Belgium
All very interesting and beneficial, thank you, but I sense a little dig (and rightly so) at the new industry of living room audio equipment reviewers. The reviewers make out they hear night and day differences, but I suspect they’re using audio monitoring equipment, only detecting subtle differences. I’ve made some purchases based on TH-cam audio equipment reviews, but I won’t be any longer.
Oh man you wouldn't believe the crap that gets A+ ratings from most reviewers.
Recently a very economical DAC got rave reviews from literally all the usual gang... But, when I hooked one up on my Windows computer it completely crashed the onscreen volume control and keyboard volume buttons.
I also took the leap on a pair of desktop speakers that got very good reviews and sitting on my desk they sound like crap.
And it goes on and on ...
Now I build systems for friends and their friends, I've had to take to testing and even modifying things for them, to make sure they're getting their money's worth.
Thanks for your kind words. I was not aware I was making any digs at anyone. I do try my best to be neutral and speak to the things I notice empirically, while observing the science and understanding my own possible psychoacoustic bias. It’s a complex balancing act!
@ good to know I’m not alone. 😊
There’s a British guy that never/rarely reviews anything available from the main retailers, but rather, he raves about stuff from an obscure brand or small distributor..,.. hmmmm, I wonder why 🤔
@@PearlAcoustics thank you for your reply. Much appreciated from the channel owner.
Thank you very much for this. I‘ve learned a lot.
You’re very welcome!
That's why when I test a new piece of equipment I have my first impression and I take note of it. Then I listen to it for a week or so and when I switch back to the old one I can check if the first impression was right. I never do continuously switch test. It's no use.
I have a nice pair of Grado headphones but they'll never recreate reality the way I like in my stereo system.
👍
It is definitely a training of the ears. If you haven’t heard good speaker sound you don’t know what you are missing….until you do
Indeed! Ignorance is bliss! 😉
@@PearlAcoustics I surely like headphone listening but I much more enjoy speakers. Your explanation of this is spot on. I try to show friends how things sound so much different and better with speakers. They just don’t get it. In headphones there is no sound stage. It’s all just within your head. It is great for hearing little details but doesn’t reproduce a true soundstage and as you have noted…you don’t feel bass drums. It should rock you in the chest when one hits. In cans it is just well…ok. Good talk and well articulated. This is a major hurdle for our industry. This is part of the reason we are getting crap streaming these days. It sounds ok in cans…but in a true listening setup….nope. Terrible in some cases.
Excellent , really enjoyed your lecture.
Glad to hear that! Thanks!🙏
Only one thing to say - BRAVO!
🙏👍
Although the reasoning is sound and explains how certain people can distinguish certain differences in sound that other people can’t, it still does not explain the fact that many audiophiles claim to be able to hear things that are not humanly possible. Things like interference or noise way below the human hearing threshold, or certain frequencies well above the human limit.
So yes, one can ‘train’ ones hearing to pick up certain nuances, changes or specific oddities. But one can’t train ones hearing beyond what’s physically possible. HiFi manufacturers have capitalized on the confirmation bias of many audiophiles and a certain kind of peer pressure has sealed that deal. If you’d bought something very expensive and exotic, it must sound better, and thus, it will sound better. Because that is the other side of the coin:
The brain has the amazing ability to focus on certain sounds, but it also has the ability to make you believe you hear things that are not here. And there lies the difference that distinguishes a true audiophile from the very large group of pseudo-audiophiles. The audiophile which acknowledges the fact that his/her hearing is a very flawed measuring instrument and is content with the fact that a lot of their enjoyment not also comes from the equipment playing the music, but also from their own cognitive biases. Those are the ones that actually listen to music and are enjoying it, instead of fighting hand over fist over which cable, amplifier, dac, etc. is better and why their hearing and equipment is better than those of the people not agreeing with their often very foolish statements.
Look up the "Dunning-Kruger" syndrome ... it's a very interesting read.
If you play Led Zeppelins "Stairway to Heaven" backwards, you'll here this:
"Here's to my sweet Satan The one whose little path would make me sad whose power is Satan,
He'll give you,
he'll give you 666
There was a little tool shed where he made us suffer,
sad Satan."
Especially now that I've told you what to listen for.
The Audio Engineering Society has a video were you can read the text on screen, while the piece is played backwards, and indeed, that is what you hear.
Of course, if you play your records backwards - You probably ARE Satan...
Thanks for your comment. Indeed the brain can be very easily tricked snd psychoacoustics is a big factor in our hobby. At the end of the day, for me it’s about enjoying the music, no matter what system you listen to it on. When I was very young, I used to love listening to music in bed on my tiny transistor radio tucked under my pillow.
@@PearlAcoustics Me too, especially Radio Luxemburg. That shows my age somewhat!
@ and my age too!
This video was quite the journey.
Thank you, I take it you meant your comment in a positive way? 😉
@PearlAcoustics absolutely
@ thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.
I believe audiophilia can be learned. I have learned to hear more, largely through editing video and audio. Besides listening to music of course. 😊
Very true!
Love listen to you and your knowledge.
I appreciate that. Thank you
That was a great talk, thanks. I always wonder why a room system is called 2-channel hi-fi to differentiate it from headphones which are as 2-channel as it gets.
Thanks for your very kind appreciation. To be honest, I think the term ‘2 Channel’ applies just as much to headphones as it does listening rooms with two loudspeakers… whatever term, the thing is to simply enjoy the music as best one can.
Great post, thank you!
You’re welcome!
it's not about hearing the ultrasonic frequencies, but how the ultrasonic frequencies can keep the frequencies we hear intact
Thanks for that.
Very interesting, and I get where you’re coming from.
Thanks. 🙏
Hearing is like sight, some people have better hearing than others genetically, just like some people see better than others or smell. There are differences in the way each individual experiences the environment based on the strength and sensitivity of his senses.
Thanks for sharing
Good question: I think if you listen to a good system at say 80 dB or so with music that is calm and enjoyable then I think your hearing will be ok. Whether you hear more than other people, I don't really know. However, if you listen to classical music your hearing may be tuned in such a way that it may be wise to avoid processed pop stuff. 👍
Thanks for the comment. I hope you enjoyed the video? I like a bit of everything, from classical to pop, to be honest. My expectations tend to change depending on the genre!
These days, the vast majority of classical recordings are also heavily processed.
They are also digital recordings btw..
Amazing video. Thank you so much!
You're very welcome!
Another audiophile hearing conundrum I would really like to solve is this: if there are 2 audiophiles, both classical concert-goers, both seeking to reproduce a realistic "live" sound in their homes, they may end up with systems of very different character, yet they will both believe their choice of sound to be closer to their experience of the real thing. What psycho-acoustical or physiological phenomenon is this? Is it possible that we hear live enveloping sound differently to reproduced point-source sound?
An interesting point. Of course there is always conformational bias. However, although live classical concerts always have something a recording doesn’t, too often, concert halls have very substandard acoustics, there’s often no sense of real soundstage because the sound of instruments bounce off in all unpredictable directions, and then there’s the conductor who balances the sound of the orchestra from his, or her, ideal position, so that the audience often hears a very substandard balance, depending on where they are sitting. Just my thoughts on a rainy, Wednesday evening.
@ That's one of the things that make hi-fi an expensive hobby: you must always get the best seats at a concert, otherwise it can be underwhelming compared to listening at home.
1) I seriously doubt audiophiles have super powers.
2) The thesis here is very well presented but flawed by one simple point... We don't hear "sound waves". We hear fluctuations in air pressure. Wavelength has little to do with it since we are actually measuring the rate of change... the frequency... and the amount of change... the volume.
Thanks for your contribution to the topic. Indeed you are obviously completely correct, it’s the fluctuation in pressure. It was the confusion about wavelengths that I set out to cover. Thanks for your contribution to the topic.
@@PearlAcoustics
You're welcome ... always happy to help.
interesting. But we live in a post-loudness wars music landscape. Anyone born after 1994 - and say 10 years before - have been conditioned for increasingly crushed dynamic range. The new digital versions of the Cure album has a dynamic range score of DR05. Only 5db range between quiet to loudest. In 1989 the Cure's Disintegration had a DR12. Its 'deluxe' remaster lost 4db of information: DR08. Do you need $00000 hi-fidelity music systems for an acoustic landscape with a dynamic range of DR06 - or below? What exactly can you perceive when eveything is LOUD ALL THE TIME.
And not only contemporary releases - but all remasters of pop and rock have applied the 'loudness wars meatgrinder' to the entire back catalogue (with singlar exceptions) - and its these LOUD ALL THE TIME versions that the vast majority of streaming services deliver.
I'm not vinyl fan - I don't like pink noise added to the sound wave ("the smooth warmth") of needle scratching against record. But vinyls minor revival is surely (apart from being on point wall decoration options for owners with no record players) has to do with its dynamic range limitations - which prevent crushing dynamics below DR 09 - or the needle will be more out of the groove than in.
Its an exceptional technological failure - that for so many years technology produced fidelity improvements - but then effectively created its own version of MAD - mutually asssured destruction. The war happened. Except for orchestral - there were no musical survivors.
True.. I have some classical recordings on vinyl from the 1950's and 60', the dynamic range is unbelievable. I've heard a couple of them "remastered" and transferred to digital, and guess what's gone?
I wouldn't be surprised if they also start pitch-correcting and auto-tuning Maria Callas..
Exactly ... it is deeply ironic that the medium (PCM) with the highest dynamic range as consistently been used to deliver the least.
@@hansemannluchter643 well in the new remaster of Queen's first album - they have pitched corrected Freddy Mercury's voice. Yep. And crushed the dynamics. And that's what will go forward. Authorised by the remaining members of the band. Why don't they make improvements to Sunflowers, or the Mona Lisa, or have a new go at Michelangelo's David or the Sistine. It's a complete historical travesty. They crushed the dynamics with recent latest remaster of Solti's Ring cycle
@@1998mchp There's always been something wrong with David's nose, hasn't there?
Indeed, the lack of dynamic range on so many recordings makes a mockery of our wonderfully capable systems.
I have a question then. When we still had CRT tv's I could hear from meters distance when someone had their TV switched on, I heared the alarm systems in shops, or the systems to keep cats on a distance. The people that joined me for that walk where never bothered by it, couldn't hear what I was hearing. I'm not an audiophile at all and got here by accident but I get disturbed by bad sound so I make sure I get decent studio monitors, headphones and DAC's. I really get sick when I hear unclear sound. Luckily decent hifi equipment costs nothing anymore these days. So I'm wondering if more people get a bit into hifi out of necessity rather than as a hobby.
Thanks for your interesting comment
Knowing how things should sound is how you can tell something is off. You don't even need A/B testing. On headphones I can tell if something is downsampled from 24/96 to 24/48, which Android OS does as standard. Much more difficult but still perceptible are changes in reconstruction filters, where transients and harmonics (distortion profile) seem to be affecting timbre, imaging (focus) weight and PRaT. It would practically be impossible to tell these minute differences on even a well set up speaker system.
Interesting, thanks for sharing
@PearlAcoustics You're welcome Harley. I do believe we shouldn't get lost in technicalities, though that is perhaps a lot of what being an audiophile is about. Having heard what is achievable it is kind of hard to go back. I prefer to have a few systems with their own unique character and qualities because you don't always want to be on the edge of your seat or being bombarded with low level detail. I have a video uploaded of a crudely set up and rather modest vintage system using KEF speakers powered by a Sugden amplifier, sounds fantastic.
@ I am totally with you on this.
I have occasional tinnitus- I'm having it now. It is indicative of the ratio of salt to water in my diet. The tinnitus is eliminated by proper hydration and control of salt intake. Theorize that one.
The human body is way more complex than hifi! If that is a phenomenon you have experienced then it’s true for you. Thanks for sharing
I heard a talk given by rob watts, where he was saying that while we can only hear up to around 20khz steady tones, we can in fact hear up to 80khz, but specifically transients, which aids our ability to locate sounds: I wonder whether this would be why superteeeters are useful.
Also, with regards to feeling bass in the chest, I do have one pair of headphones that does it (HD800) but I dont know how they manage it, and its not something I see other people discussing about them... Cool but spooky
Thanks for your comment
In reality most people are stone deaf at anything over 15khz.
Have you ever studied the frequency-response curves for the microphones used to record music?
Or of the instruments recorded??
I have the 800`s too. And i know what you`re talking about.
Never heard it on any other headphone, that`s why i bought them.
Best headphone i ever heard.
@@hansemannluchter643 Yeah, absolutely fair point there. Maybe this will all be more relevant when microphones evolve a bit, and hi res recording practices improve
Mr. Harley, how do you manage tinitus? I have suffered from tinitus on and off at varous times, Thank you. Ernesto
Hi, It’s a bit too complicated
to explain here, it’s largely down to training yourself not to react to it. To relax and not let it bother you. In this way, gradually your brain suppresses the sound in the same way it ignores background conversation. Indeed, when we are tired and it’s quiet or when we are thinking about it (like I am now 😟) it comes back. But when we are concentrating on things ‘more important’ it’s still there but we don’t hear it. I hope that helps a little? Professor Van Rompuy runs special classes on this topic in his clinic in Antwerp, Belgium. You could try reaching out to him. I hope that helps?
Just going to guess that most audiophiles just listen far closer and so notice more. It’s a learned skill for most.
Absolutely
👋 HARLEY, I HOPE YOU’RE DOING GOOD 🤗 AND THANKS FOR EXPLAINING THIS BRILLIANTLY 🧐💚💚💚
But enjoy the music less. I find the less I listen to, the more I hear.
And thus why there are many different ways to skin a cat. Not everyone hears the same or has the same preferences. Thank you Sir for another chat😊
You’re very welcome. Thanks!
The biggest difference is between those who have music on in the background…as opposed to someone who sits down and actually concentrates or gives attention to what being played for them.
Indeed, I get your point, but I think we can have the ability for both depending on the circumstance? Thanks for your comment
@ true
A blind man named Daniel Kish can echolocate by clicking his tongue, the sound signatures of the reflecting clicks allow Daniel to distinguish the difference between objects say a car or bicycle! I subscribe to the idea that "superhuman" hearing is a thing. Certainly the way auditory information is perceived by the mind is nuanced between individuals. Headphones are the pinnacle of high fidelity reproduction however binaural recording are not standard format yet. Speaker reproduction remains superior for visceral and natural sound reproduction that can rival the best headphones for fidelity when lots of money and acoustic expertise is dedicated to the effort. A sound isolation booth and a pair of high end electrostatic earphones and yeah you're not going to best this level of fidelity with a speaker system without spending a ton of cash! When I compare the bass information on tracks via headphone playback vs. in room speaker playback the fidelity is not even close! It is true that the room acoustics dominate the listening experience via speaker playback.
Thanks for sharing this interesting contribution to the discussion
It's about consciousness. If you never were in contact with the ideas of acoustics and harmonics, like overtones, you never have a chance to hear it. So you have to train it. That's what musicians do all the time. Train your ears and brain. And your knowledge of technology...
True. And doesn’t this apply to do many aspects in life? Food, art, science and literature? Best wishes, H
Im 60 and lost a little hearing but in a way i still hear better than someone who has perfect hearing. A trained ear is why. I can hear things in music most others cant
That’s great!
nah it’s more common than you think for ppl to pay attention. lots of normal ppl do sorry you’re not super special and realize all the ppl that are mix and mastering engineers, musicians, acousticians etc; we listen for hrs n hrs on end to very very specific things.
I actually have super human hearing. I can hear down to about 15Hz and what annoys me is when people say that I can’t when I clearly can. It’s why I am what you call a “bass music producer” and they’re only a handful on this planet.
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I can also hear very high frequencies because I remember a neighbor had a machine that produces high frequencies that are supposed to repel mosquitoes but every time I pass in front of the house it hurts my ears while my friends can’t hear it at all!
Thanks for sharing your comment.
Download tone generator set it to something like 18khz and be honest with yourself.
Would love to hear the Carla Bley album " Life goes on" on these.
First track.That bass can go all over the place . Can the Sibelius handle it?
Thanks for the tip! Listening to it now (the bass is very deep and clean) 😉And yes the Sibelius can handle a lot of bass. Reggae is no problem at all, for example!
Just to add…. What a fabulously recorded and executed album. Thanks for sharing!
Yep .Heard it on the Sibelius speakers this weekend .They handled those deep bass lines beautifully.
@@justlovelyaintit 😄!
@@justlovelyaintit and people say such a small driver can’t produce bass!
The casual user can only see, feel and hear price, battery, range, design and branding. Majority either lost good hearing aa they grew or have over sensor sensitivity to sound.
Thanks for commenting
I see you use the SPL phonitor headphone amplifier like i do it has crossfeed facility kind of mimicking a pair of loudspeakers .
Absolutely, I think it’s great and I use it all the time, but it does not project the soundstage in front of you, like musicians in a hall or a well positioned pair of loudspeakers in a room. I think that’s still impossible.
Do some transmission line speakers develop a full bass wave as it leaves the speaker ! I don't know, is it possible?
Hi, thanks for your question. I see on the surface that the question is straight forward, but unfortunately it is rather complex to answer!
1. On one level the answer is ‘yes’ if you mean can some designs reproduce the full ten octaves.
2. Many are ‘quarter wave’ designs which are perfectly able to produce very low frequencies for example down to 30Hz.
3. By coupling certain designs with the room characteristics, very low frequencies can be produced ‘in the room’ (we once measured 15hz at 3db down from our median in a trade show room).
4. None of this magic, it’s pure acoustics as per an acoustic double bass or bassoon.
5. The trick is to make the enclosures rigid and without adding coloration.
I hope this, in parts anders your question?
I once sat between two 8 to 12 ft horn speakers ( compression not transmission, I guess) . They were driven by a 2 to 3 watt triode amplifier. They sounded unbelievable but would probably break up a lot of marriages. A hole in the wall was knocked out if I remember correctly. They were built by Jeffrey Jackson who now lives in New York somewhere. Thanks for your clarity in presentation.
@ 😀👍🙏
I rarely heard my children when they were babies when they cried in the night, my wife would go nuts with me. It's in my ears!!
😀. But I bet if she were away for the night, you would have heard every tiny murmur they made?
Another great way to not be disturbed at night is to not have kids in the first place. Works well for me! lol
@ 😉
Didn't you solve this problem with headphones with the SPL Phonitor 3 dac/preamp?
Absolutely, it does make a small difference but it does not ‘solve’ it completely because for the reasons given in the video, it’s still a very different experience
Some people also use "Equalizer APO" or other software on their computer to create crossfeed in headphones, especially if they are open-back, but unfortunately some effects, in our body can note be replicate.
When you listen to a new piece of gear, you will go from listening to analysing. That’s why it’s very difficult to do reviews. The more expensive, the better it will sound. There has been a test done and audiophile and reviewers came down the list.
"The better [they will say] it sounds."
Don't forget, reviews are just advertising.
Indeed, reviews are so difficult because do much is dependent on mood and expectations and also psychoacoustics. But just because it’s hard, doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a place. Food and art and movie critics have exactly the same challenges.
@@PearlAcousticsThe difference is that food- art- and movie reviewers are aware of the importance of the visuals, and that all three are things you actually can see. You can't see soundwaves.
Hi-Fi-reviewers will insist that gold-"cables" sound "warmer" than silver-"cables".
That is obviously "listening with your eyes".
It is a curse having good hearing, I can hear a car turning into my street that is over 40 houses away. Also when pile driving is going on miles away I say to people can you hear that, and they say no.
Thanks for the comment! I had a cat that could hear my wife’s car, coming into the street, long before I could! He would run to the front door, and even way before she was insight, a few seconds later her car would come into view!
Yes - very good explanation. The hearing, sadly, degrades with age - very audibly 🤢🤢 So if there's a sense in investing in an expensive system at young ( as soon as financially possible ) age, there is pretty little sense in doing so after ~ 50. I could hear around 18000Hz ( tested ) by my 40s, and around 15000Hz ( also tested ) when I hit 53 🤷♂ And it's not only the top freq. that we loose with age. Rest of the audio spectrum does not get any better either.
Hi, thanks for your comment. Although I get your point to start young, I am not sure I fully agree with you. The most critical frequencies that we are most sensitive to are often still well within the range of our aging hearing. It’s usually only the very upper frequencies that disappear. But I can live with that.
@@PearlAcoustics
Well, on the other hand, you may be right - since our selective hearing also degrages, maybe, especially because of that, we do need BETTER systems, as we age 🤔🤔🤔 - A good selling point ☝️😀
@ 😉👍