Forrest Gump - What Are American Values? | Renegade Cut
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2020
- Is Forrest Gump a liberal film or conservative film? Trick question, suckers. Support Renegade Cut through Patreon: / renegadecut
#forrestgump #usa
BIBLIOGRAPHY AND FURTHER READING:
www.voaohin.org/news_and_even...
www.cincinnati.com/in-depth/n...
www.nytimes.com/2019/09/10/us...
www.marketwatch.com/story/thi...
www.dissentmagazine.org/artic...
nyupress.org/9780814751473/th...
www.pbs.org/independentlens/f... - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
As an European, I always found the Pledge of Alliance really creepy.
Same. Any national symbols (pledge, anthem, flag, whatever) are perceived in a very zealoted nationalistic way over here, unless it's sporting events or government buildings and such.
Ditto
As an American, me too
Same. Feels a bit cultlike. I bet half of Swedes can't even sing the second verse of the national anthem here, it's not pushed, you can go learn it if you like but many don't.
Same, at least I wasn't punished when I chose to sit out the Canadian anthem
Leon, thank you for including the real history of the Black Panthers, and for and pointing out the difference between Liberal and Leftist politics. Great video, as usual.
-arc- If someone wanted to learn more about their real history where would be a good place to start?
I'd also like an answer to this question. I don't know enough to argue effectively with people who don't know anything, so a documentary to watch/book to read and refer to other white people who know even less than I do would be quite helpful.
@@jfduug4994 The documentary I cited in the video and in the bibliography in the description.
@@arachnofiend2859 The documentary I cited in the video and in the bibliography in the description.
@@renegadecut9875 I loved this video, it's spot on! Especially regarding how incorrectly the black Panthers were portrayed and that Forrest Gump feels like boomers just getting themselves flowers and congrats, on civil rights, well done
Just, one tiny thing I have to mention as an Alabamian, and having attended college in Savannah, GA.... The bench that he won't STFU at to the young lady is in Savannah, at Forsyth Park.
I am a canadian living in the US. I went to highschool in texas and was threatened and harassed by administration and teachers for sitting during the pledge, even after explaining why and that it was legal. They said it wasnt and threatened me with police and called my mum and made her cry saying I was going to be arrested and in a lot of trouble. About a decade later they were continuing the same shitty behavior and a girls mum hired a lawyer to defend her. Klein Oak HS btw.
I was also harassed for being an atheist and was told they "dont allow hate groups" when I asked for an atheist or secular club. The administration and teachers regularly participated in the "meet me at the pole" flag prayer bs they would do.
@@weatheranddarkness at my high school there would be a "fellowship of christian athletes" that would pray around the american flag everyday
I am so sorry you had that experience, and I expect it's very common. I just want to note that as the US is quite big and diverse, there's some regional difference. I, too, said the Pledge at school but my Jehovah's Witness friend always sat out, and I was never aware of her being treated with anything other than respect for abstaining. The message was more "our community has diversity, and that's okay." Even my Catholic high school was quite respectful to us agnostic and atheistic students. I grew up near San Francisco, which is quite left-leaning, so I expect that's the regional difference.
Yep, totally not a cult
That's the old American Taliban for you, I'm affraid.🤷🏾♂️
Yeah none of that happened, did it?
I remember realizing around 3rd grade that the pledge of allegiance was creepy and uncomfortable for reasons I couldn't really explain. I developed the habit of reciting the first stanza of "Jabberwocky" instead, which lasted me through to high school.
I would always just move my lips but not say anything!
In memories from 4th grade, I can see myself balking, for reasons unclear,
and staying seated on the floor, mouth shut, refusing to participate in the "brain washing."
This went on for several days. Morning after morning, my "liberal" teacher allowed the rebellion,
but it clearly made her, and my peers, uncomfortable. For me, a powerful memory of social *dis-* obedience.
Jabberwocky is a solid choice of poem!
I lived in the Bible belt as a kid. I refused to say the pledge after middle school. When questioned, I’d always say “my allegiance is to God, not to flags.” Never got in trouble, regardless of my dubious faith and ~edgy atheist phase~ in my early teen years. Ask not what you can do for normalized Christian nationalism, but what normalized Christian nationalism can do for you.
I remember being told I hated freedom in middle school for refusing to say the pledge of allegiance taking into account I am not American.
Same here. Teacher was appalled that I didn't know it. And it ws given to me on paper to learn the next day.
I remember visiting American and watching a commercial that I thought was for a first-person shooter video game only to realize that it was a US Amry commercial
Yeah the Army ads have become even more like Video Game ads as of late. Absolutely an attempt at suckering in the youth.
EDIT: This comment has aged very well now that the Army is straight up trying to use Esports and Streaming to recruit gamers.
"Nobody would accept Jenny as a villain-"
Oh, Leon, you haven't looked at the internet, have you?
It's honestly so true that one of the most alienating aspects of American culture is the blind worship of the military. Even as an adolescent growing up in the UK I found it genuinely repulsive how integral the military was with American identity. Sorry lads x
it's the only thing the USA establishment has to be proud of - it's killing machine. every other part of the us government is dysfunctional, to the point of appearing to be a failed state at this point.
I'm not mad, because I'm even though I'm kind of ashamed to admit it, I'm in my thirties and I have never even thought to question the idea. I might actually be brainwashed, because I truly feel in my heart, that every one in our military is doing their best to make the world a safer place. And that making the decision to serve in the armed forces is one of the most respectable things a person can do with their lives.
and anecdotally people who have served in the military generally seem more balanced, friendly and professional than the average person. I mean, I hate our government, but I love our military.
@@michaeljurney8354 That's interesting to hear your take on it. I've lived in the US my whole life and have always seen the glorification of the US military. I never really thought much about it because they didn't really have a direct influence on my life. I've been in the military now for the past 5 years and came to the realization fairly quickly that for many servicemembers this is really just a job for them. There are plenty who love to have the chance serve their country but there are just as many that hate it due to having so little control over their lives so frequently. I personally like the sentiment and intention behind people who thank me for my service but I still feel uncomfortable because to me I'm just working at a job.
The five things that terrify me about America: Their obsession with their military and 'power'. The pledge of Allegiance. The hefty religious leanings that creep into their politics all the time. Their gun laws. Their healthcare system. Oh, and their nearly dystopia levels of capitalism, so I guess that's six.
@hawksandsparrows: one of many tough pills to swallow when you're learning to deconstruct your own personality and see how much of it is a conglomerate of state sponsored modes of thinking. (I am from the USA)
Update: I uploaded a test video, and it worked normally. Deleted the test video. So, it's an issue with this video specifically.
I am well aware that this video is not appearing in notifications and subscription tabs. I also know that it is completely unsearchable as of this writing. After a lot of back and forth with various TH-cam customer service agents, I am now waiting for this to be resolved. The agent who actually took me seriously confirmed that he could not search for the video on TH-cam. He has sent this to the internal team to resolve or at least get an explanation. Unfortunately, even if this is cleared up in a matter of hours, the first 24 hours of a TH-cam video's life cycle is pretty crucial. I hope this gets resolved, but even if it does, I doubt this will ever be one of the bigger videos in terms of views. There is nothing I can do except wait.
I got a push notification. Only way I found out that this video came out.
Good work, as always.
It's weird. All the suggested videos below this are vanilla youtube videos like tv show clips and general viral videos. It's like this video has been put in a shadow dimension
It seems like you got shadowbanned or something, but I'm not ruling out TH-cam being broken as usual, either.
Thank goodness I saw this on the author notifications - utterly insane that we have to deal with this, to say nothing of you. Thanks for keeping at it!
I only saw it on reddit; and the recommended vids are all the kinds of things you'd see in trending...weid 'glitch'
As a veteran, I find the real American tragedy is that the country fails to live up to the ideals it claims to stand for. If only the virtuous America that lives in the heart of the child that pledges their allegiance and in the remorseful mind of their grandparents actually existed, that would be a country to fight for.
Exactly. And what we've had to face this year is that the great American expirement we've been bluffing our way through is absolutely not only untrue but rickety and about to break down!
@@coobk373 It's a car crash in slow motion, except the driver is trying to convince everyone that he's actually fucking Superman while the dashboard flies through their skull
In addition it also slices and dices the baby boomer myth of 50s and 60s America. As a 56-year-old I can say that my generation is probably the most self-absorbed and narcissistic group ever. Watching this movie scuttle their illusions was a joy for me
@@TahtahmesDiary Keep living a IMMORAL life, you reap what you, yourself sow.
The Pledge of Allegiance is not supposed to be mandatory. See West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette. I’m not saying it isn’t still treated as mandatory. It is. I’ve seen those stories too. It’s just not supposed to be.
I had to use this against one of my teachers. We only said it in what was like a very bad version of home room when I was in high school, and outside of this me and the teacher got along fine, but she hated that I wouldn’t stand up and say the pledge. It was so weird to me.
The Black Panther seen always felt very wrong to me. Glad to know it wasn't just something in my head.
*scene
@@Coffeeisnecessarynowpepper I've scene the seen lol
"Who could be dumber than Forrest Gump? ...his black friend that's who."
-Dave Chappelle
Where does he say that?
@@caior5377 on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart, 09/22/1999 episode.
He was white, In the book.
TH-cam**Dominic noble, Forrest gump- lost in adaptation**
Russians don't believe me when I tell them we have to say the pledge everyday until I shout to a drunken American friend "SAY THE PLEDGE!" and they robotically start...
Every time I, a Russian townie, come across the pledge thing, my brain refuses to believe this shit's for real
It's insane tbh...
Okay but there are like different parodies of the pledge that people mumble instead, like rewriting Christmas songs to have dirty jokes in them
Yeah... no person of drinking age will “robotically” start reciting the pledge if you bark an order at them like a tool. Didn’t happen.
Man, what's fucked up is, as an American I would just assume Russia would be all about that sort of indoctrination.
Remember getting in so much trouble when I refused to stand for the pledge in grade school. They called my mom and set me in the office. My mom thought it was BS too, but didn't want to rock the boat too much (this was in the 1970's). So from then on, I might have either stood out in the hallway during pledge or stood but didn't speak the words or put my hand over my heart. The other kids thought I was from outer space or something.
Did something similar in middle school and high school. Also refusing to say the line "under god" which resulted in testy christians shouting it
Same! In middle school, I had the biggest reprimand of my school career for not standing for the pledge. My teacher told me “if you hate this country, you can move to a new one.” It’s ridiculous.
I work in the school district and they remind kids who just stand there to join in the pledge: In a way I'm kind of aiding the system because I remind the kids but I'm more concerned about them getting in trouble. If it were up to me and me only, I say "knock yourself out, you can take a knee" but maybe dissect the pledge
It was deemed illegal by the SCOTUS to force students to say the pledge in the dang '50s but many admins and teachers don't know that nor do parents let alone students. It's terrifying what people can get away with when the system just doesn't care to enforce it's own alleged laws from indoctrinating kids to cops killing citizens cause "I feared for my life".
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 You're definitely aiding the system. If your only concern is they'll get in trouble, I'm pretty sure the kids are old enough to know if they want to take that risk or not, so there's really no need to remind them of something that's very obvious. It's their choice to not join and that should be respected.
Interesting that Wesley not only wears an East German uniform, modeled off that worn by the Wehrmacht during the Second World War, but also dons a red arm band ... you might have not noticed, but your brain did.
Based reference
I noticed that too.
I'm from the UK and when I found out about the pledge of allegiance I was shocked and fairly disturbed. I mean you have little kids making an oath they cannot possibly understand.
Not that I'm saying the UK is much better, we may not have a pledge or anything like that but there is still and undercurrent of British exceptionalism, which I think has been made pretty obvious in recent years.
I hated doing it and thought is was weird when I got old enough to actually think about it and while I wasn't brave enough to outright refuse to do it, I often just pretended to say it, mouthing the words or saying nothing if I thought no one would notice.
Kind of the same in france. Both countries that have been arguably the most powerful countries on earth at some point in the last 3 centuries, and even when they were not, were amongst the great players. Today, both countries weight enough to still believe they are somewhat special, but as time goes on, their standing is declining. Not to mention the gap between them and the real big players is huge.
And even the n1 player is experiencing desillusion around its own exeptionalism. The US are pretty much condemned to becoming n2.
Children are forced to pray in our schools. There's also a pledge of allegience to the royal family. It's equally disturbing and cultist behaviour in my humble opinion.
Damn, I enjoyed this movie as a kid and everything went over my head. More proof that the status quo really is invisible for many people.
Okay Kyle 🤜drywall
Rewriting history is what America does.
So Forest Gump is an “enlightened centrist” film?
@@vonstraugg5963 idk, forrest seemed like he was gonna do fine after jenny was dead from a practical POV. zemeckis kinda tells on himself if he really believes that comment he makes to be true in the film. "i don't take a side but the side i don't like can FOAD" whoops.
It's a reactionary film.
As a child of parents who were directly affected by the Vietnam War and had their entire communities uprooted, I had such a hard time growing up in America. I still struggle with my identity and patriotism as a 2nd gen Asian American. My parents raised me to be a proud American, someone who took pride in giving the pledge of allegiance in elementary school, because as minorities we had to prove that we're AMERICANS more than we are Asian. We were still targeted and harassed by our white neighbors and were constantly reminded of our otherness. It took me a long, long time to understand that the US government is responsible for my parents' communities being ruined and massacred by their own motherland.
It's a lot like the US troops recruiting citizens in Afghanistan, et al. to help fight in the Middle East, promising to take care of them and their families, but once they have used the locals' bodies and resources the US government moves on and acts like they didn't have local citizens doing the fighting and dying for them and they don't bear any responsibility in cleaning up the mess they created.
Stop telling me to go back to my country. This is my country. My parents, even if they wanted to go back, have no country to go back to, because the Laos government hates our people for teaming up with the CIA and are dead set on committing genocide upon those of my people who still remain in our motherland. I don't know what else minorities need to do to prove our worth but I'm tired of take responsibility for the US government's crimes.
Forrest Gump and boomers can eat a flaming pile of poop.
Damn I didn't know Vietnam was still commiting genocide.
@@JC-jd1us Just to clarify it's Laos, not Vietnam but I imagine Vietnam might not be very kind to Hmong migrants from Laos either.
@@JC-jd1us why the fuck are we still defaulting to "wow vietnam is still a hellhole"
There's literally zero time in recent history when vietnam committed a genocide. Not any killing of more than one person is a genocide.
Like this is just a comment but how rotten and brainwashed must you be for this. You didn't read their comment. You scanned for "vietnam" and "genocide" and came up with "wow vietnam is still committing genocide"
Why care about which is "your country" in the first place? A country is an arbitrary confine in which a government authority has power, in which their laws are enforced and 99% of this is done by capitalists authorities, with some in transition to socialism countries (more or less). You may speak a language, have a culture of your own, but this doesn't make you one bit part of "your country". You live in a country, but that should not be your limit in seeing the world, as you have much more in common to an ordinary worker of Vietnam than some rich American.
I'm half Italian and half German, does this mean I'm part of a specific country? Both countries? Should I defend Switzerland?
No. I speak these languages, I have cultural influences from some cities in these large geographical areas, why would I try to be part of a state which is more or less against the best for me, my friends and the whole of humanity?
Nationalism, Patriotism, Chauvinism, call it how you like, are ways to divide the workers, the 90% of humanity, people who work for a salary and make the world run. It's a venom that's used by the states and the means of production owning ruling class.
I love when you drag America. You've lowkey been on a roll lately. I get so frustrated, especially in the past couple weeks, with everyone's hottakes on the protests happening around the country. I would love to hear your take on it, comparing white riots and black riots.
I'll just pay my $10 on Patreon, though. lol
You should look into the concept of police riots.
For anyone who was interested, the special features on forrest gump reveal what he said on the stage.
"Sometimes when people go to Vietnam, they come back different. Sometimes when people go to Vietnam, they don't come back at all."
The pledge of allegiance, to me, is absolutely horrifying. I grew up in Germany, now I live in Spain. Two former fascist dictatorships. I know enough about history to be really, really scared of widespread, normalised nationalism and childhood indoctrination in it.
My re-think of Forrest Gump was that he's an unreliable narrator. It's just him telling strangers at a bus stop about his life. "And then there was the time Elvis Stayed at my bed and breakfast..."
Musicians often had to stay in b&b type of houses in those times while travelling etc. Also, Elvis stole a lot from others and never gave credit, I think that was the message with that lol.
One of the funniest things about the pledge of allegiance was that the author of it was not only a Christian minister, but a Christian SOCIALIST minister. So every time you recite the pledge, you’re reciting something made by an anti capitalist. but america doesn’t want us to know that.
I remember how much I hated having to stumble through that pledge every morning, Even while I still liked my country.
I remember being so proud to say it while feeling annoyed my friend wouldn't. (I remember thinking she wouldn't say it because she was jehovah's witness) now the pledge grosses me out.
Truthfully I just always ignored it and nobody gave a shit
I have always had beef with Forrest Gump, outside of the political ideology, because it felt pretty ableist. The entire plot is a series of historical in-jokes about how Forrest was present for all these huge events but didn’t have the capacity to realize their significance. “Oh watch this simple minded man tell stories about his life without realizing how big a deal these things are! So simple! Such a sweet man! He doesn’t even know!” Tropic Thunder is a mess but they *did* nail the concept of how media valorizes being disabled as long as its just enough to be “inspirational.” Iirc Forrest Gump is vague about what exactly Forrest’s issue is, which also means it’s possible he is completely “normal” and just seems to be “off.” And thus, everyone assumes he has no malice. Which is really just a different flavor of ableism.
it's really a god awful film. loaded with clichés, ableist and condescending as hell.
@@pythonjava6228 it's just like arabian Fairy Tales, Fortune comes to those who expect it the least and it is alway by luck or miracle, no hard Work needed
Oh. I never thought of it like that. I'm not intellectually disabled but I'm developmentally disabled (special ed autistic here, some cognitive issues but not ID level.)
As a kid I was just ecstatic to see someone with a mental disability on screen that was the hero, was loved, had a romantic interest, wasnt bullied or played for laughs. I understand the problematic parts but he did more good than bad for representation for me.
But I suppose I wouldnt care for him of developmental disabilities had more positive representation in general. We kind of just have to clutch at what we do have and hold tight.
It's like fanfiction
@lullaby I think there’s room for nuance there, depending on the lens of analysis you’re using. And many lenses can apply at the same time
Looking at the movie as a critique of American culture can make sense here because of how much the film breaks the 4th wall and how blatantly it depicts the fantasy of Americana. Using this lens, Forrest asking if his son was “like him” could represent the internalized ableism that Forrest was carrying around with him that went unacknowledged until that point. That scene can be interpreted as a descriptive claim about the way disability is/was viewed in America *without necessarily* being a prescriptive claim about how disability should be viewed. The same applies for Lt. Dan mourning becoming a “cripple.” A depiction of ableism isn’t necessarily ableist.
The rest of the film was really weird about disability in a way I couldn’t interpret as anything other than ableist though. And the line between descriptive and prescriptive claims in media doesn’t pragmatically matter because people will interpret messages however they will.
the Vietnam war also resulted in the genocide and displacement of the Hmong people in Laos, the CIA recruited Hmong men and boys to assist in the war and when the US military retreated they left the Hmong people for dead. This was covered up by the US government and is now known as the Secret war. this is something i frequently see left out of conversations of the Vietnam war but i think is very important especially when discussing the impact and casualties of the war. great video and analysis of american military fetishism regardless
The Black Panther scene doesn't just misrepresent the movement, it's vilely racist as well. It's heavily implied that Jenny is dating the Black man, so the entire scene sets up a classic, "Strong, virtuous white man saves fragile, pure white woman from the terror of miscegenation by an angry, violent Black man". It's an evil caricature straight out of reconstruction.
Interesting. Some very real takes in this. Especially the fetishization of the military and the white savior aspect (which it really didn't even go into too much re: Bubba). There's some missed opportunity here even to talk about the American style of "don't talk about it" trauma coping and the inherent belief to smile and play along. I'm referring specifically to Jenny's sexual abuse by her father which changes the entire trajectory of her life. (In that case she wasnt being leftist just to be disobedient). Also Forest's mother prostituting herself to get him into a good school. This is made from a male perspective. Those two points alone could open up the take on American value of healthcare (or lack thereof). Referring to Forest as simply "not bright" (and I see a lot of the comments call him an idiot) dismisses that fact that autistic children and people of other disabilities were ignored or treated as other (and often still are.) For goodness sakes the ADA act didn't happen until the 70s which always blows my mind.
What? how? She's dating that white guy... Am I remembering a different movie or are you making this up?
No, she was dating the white guy. The white guy slapped her in the face. Forrest beat up the white guy. They kicked him out and he apologized to them for fighting.
The dark atmosphere, the angry faces, the graffiti on the walls.... that scene is layered and layered with anti-black tropes. No joke: Forrest Gump single-handedly skewed my view of the Black Panthers. Until I went out of my way to study them, I held a negative opinion of them that was influenced by mainstream media--most prominently this movie.
No she was dating the hippie white guy from Berkeley, how did everyone who liked ops comment miss that lmao
The "spitting on veterans" is literally the American version of the WW1 "stab in the back"
This is a very good point.
My dad was a vet and tells me stories of coming back from Vietnam and having protesters yell “baby killer” at him. He’s getting old and I’m almost positive he’s falsely remembering a scene from Forrest Gump.
@@JustinMoralesTheComposer
Apparently it's a myth. But who are we to say as we weren't there.
This is insane, do ALL schools have the pledge EVERY DAY?! I thought only like, some schools do this. In Poland we only sing the anthem on special ocassions like independence day and constitution day. Thats insane.
I grew up in Oregon in the 90s-00s and my schools never had us say the Pledge until some new rules came in during the Bush administration and my high school started doing it once a week on Fridays. It was still optional and I never participated, thankfully without consequences. But since leaving Oregon I've realized how extremely unusual that was, even compared to schools in the same state. I find the Pledge and the cult-like worship of the National Anthem at sports events super uncomfortable, but that's really not a majority view among Americans.
I also grew up in Oregon during the 90s and 200s, but I remember reciting the pledge of allegiance regularly in elementary school. Once I passed through middle and high school, however, the recitation was gradually reducing from once a week to rarely. Granted, once bush was in office, I quit saying it out of protest.
@@harrietamidala1691 I definitely assume there's huge variance in how Oregon schools would have handled it. I'm sure my hippy-dippy public schools would have seemed alien to someone from even 50 miles up or down I-5.
I only had to recite the pledge in grade school. I went to public school in northern California (Bay Area) from 65 to 72. I actually stopped saying the pledge but would stand quietly while the rest of class did in the 5th-6th grades. I found out about the history of the pledge from my parents & as a rebellious child I did not feel "there was liberty & justice for all" in the late 60s/early 70s so I refused to say the words. I also objected to "under God."
Here in Washington we aren't required to say it, but I've gotten some flack from peers for not saying it and/or refusing to stand. Honestly it's disgusting regardless of whether or not it's required
Forrest Gump is the ultimate Centrist film. It does not want Power structures to change for the better of those oppressed by them. Is it no wonder that Forrest is from the South? This movie is like the Song of the South against any good Leftist institutional change! Thus this a dirty fence-sitting Centrist movie!
In France, we usually learn the national anthem in grade school. It’s regarded as basic knowledge and a lot of people are appalled when soccer players don’t know it. Thankfully, we never had to sing it everyday.
@@kaitlyn__L Well no one considers the French Academy as an absolute authority so most people don't obey them, but when it comes to the anthem and the slogan, people do get very touchy, some political parties actually try to put in special rules in their programs concerning them (like making them mandatory or putting the flag everywhere) but even in this case, not respecting the slogan is considered more to be against the nation than against liberty. Everyone tends to like liberty but since it's our slogan it feels special to the us. Though some points were bizarre, one singer in the eighties made a reprise of the anthem, and it created such a huge scandal arguing the singer is creating anti-semitism since he is himself jewish.
@@sjstronghold9238 Gainsbourg’s Marseillaise was not especially sacrilegious but, once again, some people can be very chauvinist (even when the song itself was written as a revolutionary anthem).
It's the same in Argentina. We learnt it in school and sing it during national hollydays, but not everyday. We also give beef to those that don't sing it, like Messi. Also, our national anthem was heavily censored and we only have like half of it, since the middle part had a fragment that referenced we getting rid of Spain and that was offensive to Spain...
I think it's interesting how the film portrays observance of those enumerated "American values" as the path to a happy life and rebellion against those values as the cause of suffering when, in fact, it's probably the other way around. Embracing American militarism, capitalism, and the supremacy of Christianity doesn't make people happy, but happy Americans with fulfilled lives find it easy to fall into this pattern of beliefs and attitudes. Similarly, people aren't miserable because they oppose these traditional values; they come to oppose them precisely because their lives have been made miserable despite the fact that these values are supposedly a recipe for a great society.
I really wish there were more people talking about this stuff both on TH-cam and other media...
Most media you see is own by billionaires that opposed those facts that's why...
Jenny is a villain to a lot of people on the internet if you've read some of the comments on reaction videos to the movie. She gets mad hate. It's a largely male, negative reaction to her friend-zoning Forrest (a nice guy) and being unable to allow herself to be loved. In the incel mindset prevalent in those negative responses, not even being totally traumatized and broken by abuse and being raped since childhood is an excuse for her romantic rejection of Forrest because romantic rejection of a nice guy by a woman is seen as the ULTIMATE villainy.
"I don't care how traumatised and psychologically damaged from abuse and rape you are, I was nice to you a few times, so you not giving me the sex you owe me makes you the bad guy!" - Incels and "nice guys"
I dont think I ever watched a youtube video this fresh.
There's one thing that's bothering me about American militarism more than anything: To me it seems that it isn't even driven by economic advantage, whether among the populace or the ruling classes. There only seems to be deep irrational lust for war for war's sake among both, passively glorifying the military and its actions among the populace and aimless impulsive wars for nebulous reasons on part of those in command. Whether it's Vietnam or Afghanistan or Iraq, it seems that economics and geopolitics don't factor in at all. There doesn't seem to be any gain or intent of gain, no matter how abhorrent it'd be. The wars happened for the sake of there being war against a nebulous Other. And post-Vietnam we also have a kind of hysterical need to retroactively "win" after losing in Vietnam.
As a canadian i want to note that we sung the anthem at assembly in my school, and it was a very effective tool to normalize the image of wholesome nationalism that excuses the colonial violence that is canada.
When I was a kid, I didn't know why being forced to recite prayers or The Pledge of Allegience made me uncomfortable, but I knew that something was wrong so I used to just mumble or mouth my way through them. Those tiny acts of defiance are what helped me stay in touch with myself when I was too young to be brave. They're also a part of why I can stand up for myself and my beliefs now.
Commenting in the hopes that youtube stops blocking this vid from search results.
Interestingly this was on my recommended list in the UK.
One thing to keep in mind regarding Jenny’s motivation-it is not a willing embrace of counter culture necessarily
It is a response to her childhood trauma that separated her “make me a bird and fly fly away “ she was in pursuit of her missing half
Some resolution for her could only come when she reunites with Forrest who does the running for her
Running and healing/safety are a theme throughout the movie
the weirdest thing about this not being in my sub box is that all the recommended videos are also not personally tailored like they usually are. It's all just stuff from the trending page.
Yeah, happened to me as well.
Yeah, you're right. I was wondering why some of the videos looked random and unfamiliar, but now that you mention it, they're ALL random and unfamiliar. But that's only true of this video, others in my subs have normal recommendations.
The older I get, the more red flags I get from people who hate Jenny.
I've seen some good critiques on Jenny they we're about her behavior towards Forrest. I haven't seen any good takes about her background tho
@@JC-jd1us There's a meme I see pop up every now and then that says something like "My last relationship was like Forrest and Jenny: I was an idiot and she was a whore."
Always makes me wonder how said relationship *actually* went down.
@@theeducatedfool big yikes
Jenny is a pitiable character rather than one that is to be hated, I feel. She is abused horrendously when she is young and her need to escape from control leads her to make some bad decisions and meet people who take advantage of her. The people who "hate" her character probably do so out of frustration because they can see where she is heading and are frustrated that she keeps making bad decisions when all she has to do is see that she is loved by a man who cares for her without wanting anything. His slow dependable nature isn't exciting enough to distract her from her pain until later when she sees the value in what he can offer her.
I imagine the people who "hate" her aren't understanding the character very well.
Of course her Dad represents a very traditional American value of the time, discipline and not favourably which kinda goes against the narrative of this whole analysis. But then again this video is wrong in so very many ways it's hard to get mad about this minor point.
@@theeducatedfool Holy Hell! Are these the same people with the "Man's Ruin" tattoos?
I remember in Cub Scouts we always did the pledge, and one time I didn't do it. The scout master pulled me aside and said that if I did that as a Boy Scout I could lose every badge I earned and possibly be kicked out.
As if helping strangers and resourcefulness can all be nullified if you're not unwavering in your loyalty to the state.
(I did become a Boy Scout, but soon quit because none of the scouts in my group were kind)
This was really interesting. I remember watching this movie as a foreigner when I was in high school and feeling very disconnected from it.
Forest's family owning a large plantation house in the deep south always had a troubling implication that is never addressed
While I've always liked that Forest is a developmentally disabled person who was protrayed in a positive light (I'm autistic and a special ed kid, I dont have an intellectual disability but we have a lot in common when it comes to public perception)
But it always REALLY bothered me that Forest Gump's shrimp success relied explicitly on the misfortune of Black folk. Even as a kid when I didn't have the ability to word why.
Well dang, my hot take on the film was just "We didn't start the fire: the movie."
“The popular imagination around the Vietnam war” Spot on. My dad fought there and still replaced actual memories with collective memory. He tells the same stories over and over at his old age now, and every time he brings up Vietnam he talks about coming back, and being called “baby killer” and being spit on. When I press him, I can tell that it’s not a real memory but an updated one. Maybe there were protestors. Maybe not.
After all the things currently happening I was waiting for the next video
I haven't seen this since I was a teen. I only remember two things about it. The first that it somehow won Best Picture at the Oscars over Pulp Fiction. And the second that it was the type of movie only an American could love (Ireland here). :D
Thomas Byrne then it beat pulp fiction and shawshank that year. Oof
Isn’t it interesting that before wwii the pledge of allegiance was recited with a “hitler salute”
I am from germany and when I first heard of the pledge of alligeance I did not believe it. Such things do not occur in germany (for obvious historical reasons) nor any other european country I can currently think of. I always thought that no self-respecting democracy would ever do such a thing, only authoritarian states.
Obvious reasons to you and me.
The USA is an authoritarian republic on its way to fullblown fascism, not a democracy.
The public has the hyped up illusion of choice between a rightwing and an ultrarightwing party, no progressive, left or green party plays a significant role in the "election".
As a Brit I was always disturbed with the idea of children reciting the Pledge of Allegiance as well as the obsession with the flag. I absolutely despise nationalism and think it's horrible to essentially brainwash children to blindly worship their country aka their government.
You really went IN with exploring the US military worship and the American Dream BS. This is a 'feel good' movie, so they just skate over those turbulent times like the anti-Vietnam War and other social movements that were happening all over the US at the time. It's so sad many get a glimpse of the past through mainstream media, no wonder we are in this current mess. So much anger for 'SJWs' and 'loony leftists' but not for corporations and the ridiculously wealthy like Jeff Bezos (who could become a trillionaire), no anger for incompetent leaders like Trump and Boris Johnson who claim to be for 'the people' yet both come from the elite and protect those interests, plus they're racist, sexist, homophobic the list goes on .It seems some people are waking up, though. The mass protests happening currently across the world and serious discussions about capitalism.
I also really appreciated you speaking on the Black Panthers, as a Black person I was annoyed with how they were portrayed and it seems to always be the case in mainstream western society. In school I was taught that the Black Panthers were terrorists and yes, I know I am British so it's kind of weird that we were taught this, but the UK tends to skate over racial issues here to lord over the USA, as the 'real' racist nation. Despite our colonial history (that is still openly glorified btw). Anyway, I'm going off topic now...you never fail to disappoint and you articulate my feelings better than I could. I'm gonna sign up to your Patreon!
"Is Forrest Gump a liberal movie or a conservative movie?" ::image of Gary Senise::
Friends of Abe
The whole section on the nigh-unquestioned ubiquity of the pledge of allegiance really got to me. I was, in my opinion, overexposed to the said pledge almost from birth.
My parents were members of Optimist International, a sort of civic service organisation, and once a week from ~six weeks old into my teens I was taken along to the meetings of the local Optimist Club. Every meeting started with the pledge and the Optimist creed. Add to that a series of PSAs featuring recitations of the pledge that aired on a local CBS affiliate when I was ~2-3 years old, and I headed into school with the pledge already memorised. I never thought of it as anything weird, at least as a little kid. It was just so EVERYWHERE.
Then I hit my teenage years, looked around, and really started to see the myth I was raised under.
A part of me feels disgusted with how readily my child brain memorised and accepted all the crap.
As social commentary, I think this is your best one yet. THANK YOU. "Cointelpro The Movie" will henceforth be my nickname for Forrest Gump (the film, not the character lol)
I feel like the film might have seemed less excessive in that regard if Gump had at least one or two clear moments of reality checking up on him, a moment his dumb luck risked dwindling if one of the more cynical members of the cast hadn't helped out. The Black Panthers scene would likely have seemed a WHOLE lot less biased and cruel even if only SOME members were on his case, others were reasonable and had to save Gump from being mobbed for starting a fight within base. This would show how cynicism was seeping into some well meaning groups, but it was not the group itself that was the problem.
I feel the nearest to this patriotic bubble being burst in universe is his mother having to literally bunk the principal just to get Forrest his education.
12:00 As a swiss soldier I can attest to this. The swiss military is more about getting wasted & sometimes people call it paid vacations (after the recruits' school which is harder of course). It's also a militia.
Cool knives though.
As a very bright creative mind once put it, I'm afraid of Americans
Among the many weird experiences I had as an exchange student in (very) rural Pennsylvania in the late 80s was the pledge of allegiance. Even at age 16 I found the practice problematic (being German probably had something to do with that) and I didn't feel compelled to say it along with my classmates. I wasn't a US citizen and I didn't plan on becoming one, so why would I pledge my allegiance to a foreign country? Needless to say, this didn't go over too well with most of the students and teachers. So when they put pressure on me to "get along with the program", I smiled, told them I would and then in homeroom-period resorted to mumbling German obscenities and nonsense-words instead of the actual text.
I like to think Morgan Freeman says 'One nation, under me,' even when he isn't playing a god character.
Would like you to do a dissection of The Deerhunter. Let’s face it, it presents the worst chapter in American foreign policy as America’s tragedy, with every act of violence only performed either by the Viet Cong, or by an American acting in self-defence.
"We stand on guard for thee"
O Canada absolutely is a loyalty pledge, and they did make us sing along. At least in my school they did.
Honestly, seeing the pledge in media and not being American, I thought it was a fictional thing, an old convention that's no longer done. When I befriended people from the states, it was a shock. My country doesn't have anything similar at all, but I guess all countries have a version of "obeying country is good, dissenting voices are bad", some are just more overt than others. Here, as an example, the flag is used nearly exclusively by conservatives and makes me uneasy to see it, as I'm queer and scared anyone bearing it will make my life hell.
I absolutely love this movie and I also loved your video critiquing it. Thanks for showing me things with a different perspective which I didn't notice as much before.
I've been reprimanded multiple times for refusing to pledge. One time I was permanently removed from one class and placed in another class because the teacher refused to teach me if I wouldn't pledge. A few years ago someone successfully sued for millions over the exact same thing. I could have made millions if I could have afforded a lawyer.
I remember being told off by teachers and students for not standing for/saying the pledge of allegiance in elementary, middle, and high school. And, in high school, a catholic school, i got the same for not participating in religious pledges and prayers. It never got to the point where i was punished but there was a lot of social pressure and stigma.
Oddly appropriate for our current situation
I was always bothered by how after Forrest starts running back and forth across the US, the news refers to him as "a Gardener from Alabama" when he's a military celebrity, a sports star, and the owner of a famous shrimp company. Every time I watch this movie I always wonder why no one in universe is making these connections
Just as long as Americans never forget the 'justice for all' part I'm sure everything will be fine.
My high school first period teachers never scolded me for being the only one who didn’t stand or recite the pledge of allegiance.
Australian here; we may not pledge an oath to the Queen anymore (before my time) but kids are expected to stand & sing the National anthem once a week at assembly in primary schools to this day. And don't get me started on ANZAC Day. Great video BTW
I remember there was a guy in my homeroom in highschool who always sat during it and he always got such looks. Looking back I can't be more proud of him.
This video gave me chills at the end. I haven't seen Forrest Gump in probably 6-7 years, when I was much younger, so the ideology of the film really flew over my head.
I'm Canadian. Definitely didn't have the anthem playing in any of my schools everyday. We had them at assemblies, or certain events. Or sport stuff. I always find the American attachment to the flag and the pledge of alegence weird AF.
For me we had the anthem play everyday from K-9. In high school it was played once a week
“The American dream, you have to be asleep to believe it.” (George Carlin)
Please continue making these videos. It is so rare to have someone dig up and analyze the underlying issue with American society that nobody else would talk about, and for that, you are my favorite TH-camr.
As someone who has been arguing for years that Forrest Gump is a propaganda film, I thank you for summating it in an easily-accessible video I can share.
Oh you... You keep hitting some spots so well here and there it just keeps amazing me. I'm not a maniac or anything, I follow many other content creators but you're a good one that's for sure
I GOTTA SAVE BUBBAAAAA!!
It's amazing how when you dig in to the facts so many of those rags to riches story have them getting a loan of, at minimum, tens of thousands of dollars from a family member.
I 100% remember groups of kids (myself included) getting in trouble not standing for the pledge, but in addition to that, even not saying “under God”.
I missed this video when it was uploaded, but glad I clicked on it in the related tab to you recent video, just had a discussion about some topics that were included in this video, including the black panthers and I am sharing this with them. Great stuff as always.
The first time I realized that Americans in schools had to recite the pledge everyday was in a short "life in the day" documentary about Taylor Swift at the beginning of her career. It was very jarring.
for some reason i got the notification but the video didn't show up in my subscriptions hmmm...
darkninjafirefox I caught it on my Facebook feed, the video was listed as restricted on YT....
Love this critique!! My only question is how does the suggestion of Jenny having been abused as a kid fit in with the 'punishing her for being a radical ' angle? It's not said out right that she was abused but the scene where she starts throwing rocks at her father's house (and when she runs into Forrest's bed as a kid) certainly suggest something traumatic was going on.
I kind of see it as framing her rebellion against the status quo as being born out of pure emotion and abuse. I think that from the mind of a conformist, choosing to rebel based off of your feelings or trauma is seen as weak when compared to coming at it from a place of thoughtful introspection.
Simply put, she's the "hurt little child who is lashing out against the world in retaliation". Projecting her own pain from her childhood onto society at large. I might be missing something though, I haven't watched the whole film in years.
TH-cam fucking this video is criminal. This is some of your best work, and that's saying something.
This is one of the best videos I've ever seen on TH-cam. And I just watched your Home Alone video and it's also amazing. Without even trying, I've been binging your videos. The topics draw me in, sure, but I stay for the unique substance on a level that I rarely see anywhere. Your channel is truly one of the best on TH-cam. And I'm an avid consumer of TH-cam content. I'm always on the lookout for amazing content like yours.
Man I love your channel! As a German, I could never understand the American fascination with the military. I had many uncomfortable discussions with us citizens over the years and was always confused by how little thought went into this fascination.
Damn... pretty true. Still like this movie though. What i noticed is how much people don't get that Jenny is her OWN HUMAN and doesn't owe Forrest shit. I noticed a lot of idiots seem to think Jenny only exists as part of his story SMH
Not in my subscription box for first time. Even now. Glad I found it through multiple re-loading of regular suggestions.. Keep up the excellent work!
Glad you put up the update. Would have missed it!
I'm a music teacher in Louisville and I have 1 student who is from the U.K. and I typically didn't do the pledge in my class because it wasn't over the intercom and I had a million more important things to do. The pledge came up once and my English student was very creeped out and said it sounded very Nationalist. I had to bite my tongue
This is an incredibly well researched and well written piece.
Thank you.
I love coming back to these videos after a few years, they hit different.
Just watched this and the snl one...this is the channel ive been looking for, for the past decade...thank you...thank you so much for doing this.