Yeah, after hearing this, I think any analogue to Sind in my settings would be a fallen historical nation that still passes down through the generations as a cautionary tale on how NOT to run a nation.
Fun fact: Sindh is a real life province in India. When the British conquered it, the commander, Charles Napier allegedly sent a report to the East India Company consisting only of the one Latin word, "peccavi", "I have sinned".
Wow! That was amazing. It really is too bad that TSR canceled the setting before coming here, although the mess that Atruaghin Clans became, perhaps we needed it clean for someone to do it justice.
One of these years you'll do a Dark Sun video as an April Fool's Joke, but it'll be so danged interesting nobody will notice it was a joke. We'll all just be, "Huh, strange it wasn't Mystara. Maybe he's branching out."
The magic caste needs to invent magic items/spells that would siphon salt out of pools and topsoil. The extracted salt could be exported, and the land would be rendered more ariable. It would require a LOT of work to achieve, but it would pay serious dividends. Then again, this would require Sindh society to not be all about resisting anything remotely related to progress.
Fascinating - I never paid enough attention to Sindh. Obviously, it's tiny for an India analogue: roughly the same size as present day Bangladesh, it would fit into India 22 times and change (and pre-partition India 30 times)! Even though it does seem to skew a little to a particular view that came into contact with degenerate foreign ways of the 'poor, benighted 'eathen,' goodness gracious me(!) this part of Mystara could be great fun to explore. Thanks, Mr. Welch. Now I'm feeling the need to be 'going for an English!' 😂
I've seen this area on maps since the 80s but have never been interested in exploring it until I watched this video. After I run drums on fire mountain soon, I want to rework quagmire and then send them to the savage coast but it maybe via sindh.
Is the Control Weather spell unknown in Sindh? It seems like that and the Plant Growth spell would solve most of the kingdom's problems with bad weather and food shortages. Were these spells not available in BECMI? I honestly don't remember. But a competent midlevel Cleric with access to these spells (which existed in 2E) could alleviate the damage from monsoons or the problems of starvation. Not to mention what magic would do for their cash crops. Is tradition the reason for this, or a lack of AD&D spells?
I suspect the Plant Growth spell wouldn't work well in Sindh, as the implied massive amount of salt that chokes much of the ariable land. Plant Growth merely increases plant growth, but it can't improve the land's capability to support life. It is kind of like trying to grow a fruit tree in a salt flat; even if you could get the plant to take, the salinity and lack of nutrients in the soil would kill the plant promptly afterward. At least, that is my impression.
There's two problems. In dealing with the crops their leadership prefers to grow cash crops to make more money even if it means there's not enough food crops for their people. The nation is very shortsighted. As far as growing plants their major issue is the high salinity as mentioned. The land just isn't good for agriculture. They're trying to force it. They use a modified version of the blessed spell to try to increase the plant growth but it's only a stopgap measure. It doesn't matter if they crave it you can't water plants with electrolytes
Nice video. But, I must admit that now I'm even more uninterested in either adventuring here or playing a character from here. Can't wait for the next video, though! Any chance you'll do the other areas in Alphatia that were neglected in the box set?
And you kinda show my main critique with old RPG trying to write fantasy non-Europe. Like having a poor habit of those having "historically and culturally authentic" prejudices BUT assumed that such only exist in that place and NOT in default/Fantasy Europe (like an example, like laws on clothing restrictions on non-aristocrats and harsh punishment being written as cultural features on Fantasy Japan BUT historical context part seems to assume that Europe doesn't have these two...you know "no purple clothing" and "have your limbs broken on wheels"). Either for immersion or adventurers from fantasy Europe to feel "different". Mystara had redeeming features of prejudices being applied in Fantasy Europe, BUT can be glaring with Greyhawk and Faerun, which operate on modern morality due to being treated as beginner section and thus not having historical prejudices explained for "flavoring" (even by 80's and 90's standards).
I think the Raj raja should roll back the caste system to the original Varna system (the Vedic class system based on Skill rather than birth ) and impliment twice birth a ritual to ascend from your birth class to another class. Given that large population of lower caste i am sure they will support going back to the original system.
So if the mystics and other magic users are relatively high caste, what happens if a lower caste person develops powers? Bards, Clerics, Sorcerers, and Warlocks can spring up anywhere, after all. This has actually been an issue I have with a lot of Mystara's setting. The setting prides itself on replicating historical cultures, but there are a lot of X-factors in it being a D&D setting that would break those cultural paradigms in seconds. You account for some (magic being common place to sustain places that wouldn't be livable, the mage-heavy nations that hunt down spontaneous casters for experiments, etc), but the ridged caste system here is a bit like the nations with high slave populations. One Spartacus or Nat Turner able to cast spells and things go very badly for the slave owners.
When Mystara was written, there weren’t any “I was just born knowing how to use magic” character classes. Sorcerers and Warlocks as we know them in 5th Edition just plain didn’t exist, Bards had to learn their spells from other Bards, and Clerics were given their spells by their deities… and a Cleric from Sindh would only operate in the role suitable for their caste.
@@ianshaliczer Yes, magic was more restrictive in the bad old days. But there were still clerics. Good and/or Chaotic deities and immortals wouldn't really have a reason NOT to disrupt that sort of place.
@@templarw20 Mystara doesn’t have Gods, that’s sort of a central part of what makes the setting distinctive from other campaign worlds. The Sindhi Immortals who have the most followers in the country will work within social norms and mores of the country… Indeed, they probably work to reinforce those social structures.
@@templarw20 AND this is how India caste system ended up having to bend or ebb historically (at least deeper view of it). Like say 1. most of Rajput can be described as "mad max warlords" with 3rd and 4th Battletech Successor States (like either arriving White Huns who became indianized, armed Shudra homesteads, and ruling becoming localized with a usurper or two that often war against each other BUT not enough to destroy infrastructure that would devastate everyone). 2. the "warriors from these two regions are part of Kshatriya caste BUT differ in hierarchy depending on context" along with differing social views from region-to-region (like Deccan sultanate had cosmopolitan aristocracy from Afro-Indian Malik Ambar to South India's less-stringent social views that a Shudra can be a general and founder of Tuluva dynasty). 3. Buddhism, Islam, and Jainism that lee-way on caste restrictions (though this come into issue of "foreign rulers" in some cases). I mean I even got curious I think about things like conscriptions and militias. And reasons WHY many had issue with "historically accurate" fantasy (or even built around one aspect that is pigeonholed into that culture) OR why DND's Samurai is different from Wizardry's take on it (ignoring gameplay philosophy). Just that many "non-European" settings--especially older ones--tend to have habits of fantasy non-Europe having "historically authentic" prejudices WHILE fantasy European/Default doesn't have or explore those to the point of being mechanized (I mean I get annoyed when people get upset over Fantasy Samurai being allowed to kill peasants without punishment BUT also get annoyed when say "this Fantasy Kingdom based on India/Japan had rigid social structure and xenophobic UNLIKE THE WEST" that seems to have vibes of author assuming that such concept only applied to them and thus "inauthentic" if they didn't have them and/or make it as spotlight).
This is one of the most messed up countries I’ve ever heard of and I want to use it in my games. I wouldn’t even have to keep it as an Indian allegory; just the idea of a nation so radically, blindly tied to tradition for tradition’s sake has dramatic potential.
Yeah, after hearing this, I think any analogue to Sind in my settings would be a fallen historical nation that still passes down through the generations as a cautionary tale on how NOT to run a nation.
Fun fact: Sindh is a real life province in India. When the British conquered it, the commander, Charles Napier allegedly sent a report to the East India Company consisting only of the one Latin word, "peccavi", "I have sinned".
Now that’s how to shitpost, 1800s style!
Wow! That was amazing. It really is too bad that TSR canceled the setting before coming here, although the mess that Atruaghin Clans became, perhaps we needed it clean for someone to do it justice.
One of these years you'll do a Dark Sun video as an April Fool's Joke, but it'll be so danged interesting nobody will notice it was a joke. We'll all just be, "Huh, strange it wasn't Mystara. Maybe he's branching out."
The absolute misappropriation of funds in this fictional country couldn't possibly be based on real life could it.... riggghhht.
The government that run the country was called Congress not progress 😂
Yes!! My favorite campaign setting =)
The magic caste needs to invent magic items/spells that would siphon salt out of pools and topsoil. The extracted salt could be exported, and the land would be rendered more ariable. It would require a LOT of work to achieve, but it would pay serious dividends.
Then again, this would require Sindh society to not be all about resisting anything remotely related to progress.
Some of the Entropic paths to immortality would work pretty well here. A campaign built abound it might work pretty well in fact.
Heads will explode while listening to this... 🍿 🍿 🍿
Fascinating - I never paid enough attention to Sindh.
Obviously, it's tiny for an India analogue: roughly the same size as present day Bangladesh, it would fit into India 22 times and change (and pre-partition India 30 times)!
Even though it does seem to skew a little to a particular view that came into contact with degenerate foreign ways of the 'poor, benighted 'eathen,' goodness gracious me(!) this part of Mystara could be great fun to explore.
Thanks, Mr. Welch.
Now I'm feeling the need to be 'going for an English!' 😂
I've seen this area on maps since the 80s but have never been interested in exploring it until I watched this video. After I run drums on fire mountain soon, I want to rework quagmire and then send them to the savage coast but it maybe via sindh.
Mr. Welch, I’d love to see your take on the Hyperboria game/setting.
Is the Control Weather spell unknown in Sindh? It seems like that and the Plant Growth spell would solve most of the kingdom's problems with bad weather and food shortages. Were these spells not available in BECMI? I honestly don't remember. But a competent midlevel Cleric with access to these spells (which existed in 2E) could alleviate the damage from monsoons or the problems of starvation. Not to mention what magic would do for their cash crops. Is tradition the reason for this, or a lack of AD&D spells?
I suspect the Plant Growth spell wouldn't work well in Sindh, as the implied massive amount of salt that chokes much of the ariable land. Plant Growth merely increases plant growth, but it can't improve the land's capability to support life. It is kind of like trying to grow a fruit tree in a salt flat; even if you could get the plant to take, the salinity and lack of nutrients in the soil would kill the plant promptly afterward.
At least, that is my impression.
There's two problems. In dealing with the crops their leadership prefers to grow cash crops to make more money even if it means there's not enough food crops for their people. The nation is very shortsighted.
As far as growing plants their major issue is the high salinity as mentioned. The land just isn't good for agriculture. They're trying to force it. They use a modified version of the blessed spell to try to increase the plant growth but it's only a stopgap measure. It doesn't matter if they crave it you can't water plants with electrolytes
Nice video. But, I must admit that now I'm even more uninterested in either adventuring here or playing a character from here.
Can't wait for the next video, though! Any chance you'll do the other areas in Alphatia that were neglected in the box set?
That is the plan
@@Mr_Welch Awesome! Is it all from Bruce Heard? Where can I find his updates? The Vaults?
@@johnbalk6091 no it's on his web page and it's not easily found if you look for it
@@Mr_Welch Okay, so I'll have to search through his web pages, right?
@@johnbalk6091 yeah. I don't think the search bar works on it very well.
Note to self, Sind would suck.
Basically a fantasy version of 2020s America. And if you don't think America's got a caste system, you haven't been paying attention lately.
And you kinda show my main critique with old RPG trying to write fantasy non-Europe.
Like having a poor habit of those having "historically and culturally authentic" prejudices BUT assumed that such only exist in that place and NOT in default/Fantasy Europe (like an example, like laws on clothing restrictions on non-aristocrats and harsh punishment being written as cultural features on Fantasy Japan BUT historical context part seems to assume that Europe doesn't have these two...you know "no purple clothing" and "have your limbs broken on wheels"). Either for immersion or adventurers from fantasy Europe to feel "different".
Mystara had redeeming features of prejudices being applied in Fantasy Europe, BUT can be glaring with Greyhawk and Faerun, which operate on modern morality due to being treated as beginner section and thus not having historical prejudices explained for "flavoring" (even by 80's and 90's standards).
wait, no Wynona Ryder? you okay buddy?
She's in the video pretty early
The Atruaghin Plateau is encircled by Sind?
So, my kind of Indians are surrounded by the other kind of Indians?
Weird.
That feels like a bad joke some how
@@burningbronze7555 Maybe, at the bottom of the Plateau, the Sindis have a long, unbroken circle of covered wagons to keep my people out.
I think the Raj raja should roll back the caste system to the original Varna system (the Vedic class system based on Skill rather than birth ) and impliment twice birth a ritual to ascend from your birth class to another class. Given that large population of lower caste i am sure they will support going back to the original system.
So if the mystics and other magic users are relatively high caste, what happens if a lower caste person develops powers? Bards, Clerics, Sorcerers, and Warlocks can spring up anywhere, after all.
This has actually been an issue I have with a lot of Mystara's setting. The setting prides itself on replicating historical cultures, but there are a lot of X-factors in it being a D&D setting that would break those cultural paradigms in seconds. You account for some (magic being common place to sustain places that wouldn't be livable, the mage-heavy nations that hunt down spontaneous casters for experiments, etc), but the ridged caste system here is a bit like the nations with high slave populations. One Spartacus or Nat Turner able to cast spells and things go very badly for the slave owners.
If they are a lower cast it is heavily insinuated they have to learn and use the magic arts clandestinely.
When Mystara was written, there weren’t any “I was just born knowing how to use magic” character classes.
Sorcerers and Warlocks as we know them in 5th Edition just plain didn’t exist, Bards had to learn their spells from other Bards, and Clerics were given their spells by their deities… and a Cleric from Sindh would only operate in the role suitable for their caste.
@@ianshaliczer Yes, magic was more restrictive in the bad old days. But there were still clerics. Good and/or Chaotic deities and immortals wouldn't really have a reason NOT to disrupt that sort of place.
@@templarw20 Mystara doesn’t have Gods, that’s sort of a central part of what makes the setting distinctive from other campaign worlds. The Sindhi Immortals who have the most followers in the country will work within social norms and mores of the country… Indeed, they probably work to reinforce those social structures.
@@templarw20 AND this is how India caste system ended up having to bend or ebb historically (at least deeper view of it). Like say 1. most of Rajput can be described as "mad max warlords" with 3rd and 4th Battletech Successor States (like either arriving White Huns who became indianized, armed Shudra homesteads, and ruling becoming localized with a usurper or two that often war against each other BUT not enough to destroy infrastructure that would devastate everyone). 2. the "warriors from these two regions are part of Kshatriya caste BUT differ in hierarchy depending on context" along with differing social views from region-to-region (like Deccan sultanate had cosmopolitan aristocracy from Afro-Indian Malik Ambar to South India's less-stringent social views that a Shudra can be a general and founder of Tuluva dynasty). 3. Buddhism, Islam, and Jainism that lee-way on caste restrictions (though this come into issue of "foreign rulers" in some cases). I mean I even got curious I think about things like conscriptions and militias.
And reasons WHY many had issue with "historically accurate" fantasy (or even built around one aspect that is pigeonholed into that culture) OR why DND's Samurai is different from Wizardry's take on it (ignoring gameplay philosophy). Just that many "non-European" settings--especially older ones--tend to have habits of fantasy non-Europe having "historically authentic" prejudices WHILE fantasy European/Default doesn't have or explore those to the point of being mechanized (I mean I get annoyed when people get upset over Fantasy Samurai being allowed to kill peasants without punishment BUT also get annoyed when say "this Fantasy Kingdom based on India/Japan had rigid social structure and xenophobic UNLIKE THE WEST" that seems to have vibes of author assuming that such concept only applied to them and thus "inauthentic" if they didn't have them and/or make it as spotlight).
Sind sounds incredibly depressing to visit, let alone live in unless you are in one of the top 2 castes.
Red orc Is invasion would like to know more about that
So would I. It's got a brief mention. Might need to research it
This is one of the most messed up countries I’ve ever heard of and I want to use it in my games. I wouldn’t even have to keep it as an Indian allegory; just the idea of a nation so radically, blindly tied to tradition for tradition’s sake has dramatic potential.
I love Naan bread
That opener.❤ Good lord Indian women are hot. Great video.
they age very badly, think of reverse asians
@@killazaawl All the more reason to indulge in them early while you can 😉Also, 16:16 😍🤩
@@DolFan316odd typo in your comment. You obviously meant 11:41