What I've learned from researching this subject in great depth completely agrees with your findings. Which is why we decided to stay put in our house and snowbird in Florida and summer in Upstate NY.
What is quickly becoming a huge non-tax expense in some states & especially Florida, is insurance costs for home & auto. Whatever tax savings maybe realized in a state like FL can be wiped out by the astronomical cost of insuring a home & a car there.
Florida has seen the highest cost of living increases the last 5 years. Throw in property taxes,home and flood insurance that's required in so many areas, utility rates, HOA rates. Sadly the one expense on the horizon that people didn't see coming is medical expenses for seniors. Not to mention the overall steep decline in medical care.
Glad to see this as the top comment. Living in Texas Nextdoor is full of people complaining about the escalating costs of their home owners insurance. Another thing to consider as you get older, life without AC is hard. Considering health conditions you may need to consider a home generator because the grid in Texas is not getting any more reliable.
Also important to mention another relatively unknown tax I NEVER hear talked about on these videos is the personal property tax on vehicles. 27 states have it, and it's typically annual, separate from vehicle registration renewals. The highest states are 3.5% to over 4.5% of a vehicle's value per year. This can amount to $1,700 - $2,300 annually. Even in the lowest states, people typically pay well into the hundreds just for this tax.
BEFORE CONSIDERING A MOVE: visit your area, MORE THE ONE TIME. Rent a place for an extended period each time, preferably during the bad weather, high humidity etc, drive the highways, Its important to visit more then 1 time,, the 1st time its, gee whiz, wow, look at that..the 2nd or 3rd time your starting to see it as it actually is,, damn highway traffic, homeless, crime, quality of people in the area etc... Remember even the most exotic vacation spot has it's trade offs,,
Would be nice to compare the zero or low state tax against each other. Would also be interesting to see to a few international destinations, especially during a Roth conversion window.
There was a time when low state taxes were something to consider. It's become a moot point in most states because you truly get what ya pay for and they hit you with multiple other fees that make up that differential
Move to a no income tax state (if you live in an income tax state), become a resident then move overseas. The cost to live outside the US is significantly cheaper. If you live overseas and pay income tax in that country you can get a foreign tax credit to reduce your federal taxes dollar for dollar. Or become a perpetual traveler in retirement and explore the world without paying a foreign country any income taxes, just limit your time in a country to under the 90-day limit (for most visa free countries). People are doing this type of slow travel for under $2K a month and if your income as $4K a month or more you will live extremely comfortably in most areas of the world.
One thing to keep in mind when comparing NYC to other cities is the massive cost of car ownership. Assuming you won't need a car in NYC but would need it elsewhere, the differences in expenses can be less massive than they first appear on paper.
The thing that throws a wrench into the California analysis is proposition 13, which essentially means that if you've been working in California and owned a house there for an appreciable time, your property tax is kept artificially low. The analysis in this video (which is very much appreciated) seems to be based on the premise that you move into the state at retirement. However because of Prop 13, staying in California after retirement can be much more competitive with moving to another state, if you've owned your house a decade or two and plan to stay in it.
As a resident of CA for 25 years, and the owner of two houses in TX (where we plan to move for retirement in about 5 years), Prop 13 is quite nice. However, everyone's situation is different. Due to the more affordable housing/land in TX, it attracted me for that reason. Half an acre in the Bay Area ain't happening for me but no biggie in TX. Yes, the property tax in TX is quite annoying (they need a Prop 13!!). I wanted a decent chunk of land to build a nice wood/metal shop to while away my golden years in--and I wasn't moving to Central Cali for it! So I plan to cash out my nicely appreciated home and build a retirement house/shop in TX.
Right now california is having issues with homeowners insurance companies raising rates or cancelling people and that does effect retirees,which i am one and looking to leave.
This was extremely useful. The more "holistic" look at living expenses is probably key, and I've not heard many others talking about it. (Also, as a resident of Iowa, I can confirm... there's no easy ocean access or views readily available, for any price.)
From our experience moving to and from SC and WI in early 90's, the cost of housing was the main benefit. As you mentioned that cost advantage has largely disappeared today due to the influx of retirees. As for "taxes", in general we found them to be comparable on the whole but taken from different areas i.e. higher sales tax, personal property tax on cars, boats. Also keep in mind the quality and availability of services that your taxes pay for is different as well.
I love this. I live in Texas, which has toll roads. These are taxes on using public highways. They have other similar 'non-tax' taxes. It would be interesting to see analysis that includes the 'non-tax' taxes.
I can tell you that for many retirees Washington State is not a good choice. There is no state income tax, but the sales tax, and every other state tax for that matter, is very high. The worst is that the estate tax is punitive and causes many retirees over 70 to look to states like Arizona. Yes, you pay a little more in income tax, but if planned correctly your income can be minimized and your heirs get the benefit of your frugality and hard work and not an avaricious state government
We love our state - Michigan - most of the year. When we get cabin fever in January or February, we chose a temperate climate and rent there for several weeks or longer. And if we like, every year we can we can vary that temperate climate location. We also avoid the brutal summer heat of many “typical” retiree locations this way.
California is an expensive state! Mostly not affordable to people moving-in just now. But, if you are a longtime resident, own property -- and have a low property tax bill (thanks to prop 13) -- living her can be a joy. And reasonably cheap. Clearly California has all of the other states beat when it comes to weather (especially coastal southern California residents).
We are comfortable in our 70s living in Phoenix Arizona. Most days are sunny and warm. Even January the days are nice enough to take walks in the 60s. Excellent costs overall and no ice worries. Taxes are fine too. Our other home is Texas. Still great place to retire although it runs second to Arizona. Last place is Florida due to property tax and property insurance increases. If taxes are not an issue for you, then Florida shares the top spot for us. For example, we have had USAA for fifty years. They won’t insure in Florida.
A lot of people in Florida are facing insurance issues now and I don’t think I would want to buy anything there until they figure it out. But insurance is becoming a problem in California and other places with fires. Even here in western Washington fire risk is starting to affect some areas insurance coverage
I’m in FL and have USAA. A mile from the ocean. They’ve insured this house for over 23 years. However, they would not issue a policy if I was buying today. They will issue new policies on some properties in FL again now. Just not a house like mine on a barrier island.
@@midlife_minimalist thank you for Usaa update on your home. We called Usaa a few years ago on insurance for a potential home in the Gulf Coast. They said no. And the insurance costs were simply outrageous. We considered Jacksonville also beat the Mayo Clinic and will revisit that area on our next trip to Florida.
If you think people are moving to new jersey to retire you must live on another planet. I moved out of new jersey about two years ago and at the time my property taxes alone were twenty six thousand dollars a year along with high income tax and high sales tax.
I'm moving to Tennessee from California. One missed thing is that prop 13 in CA that limits property tax to 1% is already bypassed by mello roos taxes. My average property tax is around 1.5%. My home in Tennessee will be less than .5%, with an equivalent sales tax to California without an income tax. Making 350k a year I'll be saving at least 3k a month in taxation, if not more.
This needs to include the costs 0f property taxes over the years you pay them. If they increase, by how much and at what rate as they assessed value of you home changes.
I’m finding California to be fairly reasonable. The prop 13 tax freezes leave me paying about $12k / year on my $1.8M home. My neighbor is paying something like $1k. He’s been here longer. Solar puts a dent in the high electricity rates. The EV cuts the fuel bill by maybe 70%. What remains is food and the Amazon bill. What I am not paying is the hefty heating or a/c bills I would be paying if I moved to these “cheaper” areas. It is also nice to be outside nearly all of the year so easier to get exercise. California’s income tax can actually go to 13.3%. However it is progressive, and doesn’t ramp up until fairly late around $80k. I’m happy to see other retirees leaving. Those homes should go to young families with kiddies. However for me, I’m not going to be living in a redwood forest in any other state.
I'm a native of SOUTHERN CA and had your conditions, but left in 2022 and am only sorry I did not leave in 2000! I am saving a TON in state income tax and a lot more. The entire standard of living there has become "third-world" and no one can deny it = crowds, "freeway" nightmares, crime, homelessness and so much more. I now have solar in SC and my monthly utility dropped by 2/3 (!) from my CA bill = very cold winter nights! What else. . . I could go on and on and on. . . Good luck and hope it continues to be "fairly reasonable." (PS. Getting exercise is easy everywhere. . . it has NOTHING to do with the weather)
on certain things they aren't bad but homeowners insurance is out of control,i live in so cal and im retired and besides their pathetic politics and other things im looking to leave.
@@kckuc310 Mine came out to zero taxes living on Social Security. When you are retired and probably have ten years left, politics is the last thing you want to focus that time on.
As you probably know, NY state property taxes are figured as a percentage to a homes assesment but as a buyer the homes selling price which is much higher than the assessment value of the seller in most cases. That's really not that unusual. What truly sucks is the percentage amount in most of the rural areas. Some close to 3% annually vs NY city that's as low as 1%. So you could be paying the same amount on a 500k home in the sticks vs a 1.5 million home in the city. My family is from the North Country region upstate. I've never lived their but still vacationed there my entire life. Wife and I retired in 2020 and planned on buying a vacation type home on the St Lawrence until we looked at the taxes. At the time property taxes on a 500k home were in the 12 to 15k annually. That's double what I pay on a similar valued home in the mid atlantic. In a state that's rated one of the top 3 most expensive states to retire in. When I was working with a realtor she said the state legislature has destroyed the second/vacation home market with this legislation.
Good analysis. I would be interested to see all states ranked similarly. Also, the property tax rate can be a little misleading because in some states like Michigan, if you have lived in your house for a long time the rate is based on original buying price + inflation, not current market value. Of course, if the question is about whether to move, this doesn't apply. Anyway, would be interested how all states rank for retiree's.
Another tax gotcha - how many things a state applies its “property tax” to - In many states the “property tax” only applies to real estate. In other states like North Carolina, the property tax applies to real estate PLUS vehicles, boats, jet skis, and RV’s… every year! And these additional taxes are very material, often several hundred $ per year.
Californian born and bred. Just retired two years ago. Would love to move someplace cheaper. But when I look at various states I'm always left asking "What's the weather like"? Living in N. California I've been spoiled by the weather. Couldn't imagine moving to a place with snow, high humidity, tornados, hurricanes, sleet and summer rain. It's worth it to me (at least right now) to stay. Plus my house is paid off, that helps.
California has the best, mildest weather hands down--no state can touch it. That said, I'm heading to Texas (most likely) to retire. I can't afford the land area I want in the Bay Area and, yes, cost of living is high here. I will cash out my home I bought in 1998 in the BA whose property taxes are actually cheaper than the place we bought in Austin 5 years ago! Go figure.
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You have to balance your income level in to retirement and WHAT each state taxes not just the average tax responsibility of its residents. Some states tax income and assets, some states tax more sales taxes and things which generally affect lower incomes more. Having lived all my life in WA and most of that making a decent salary, while everyone complains about WA taxes and for low/medium income they can be, the truth is, above a certain amount of income, it's a pretty sweet place to live. Zero income tax, property taxes decently under 1% depending on area, by buying a smaller retirement house outside the inflated king/snoco markets you can make out quite well and not have much to worry about in planning outside your property and general sales taxes. I've calculated what I would pay in most other states and I haven't found one that would be more favorable from a tax perspective. Compare it to like Idaho which often scores quite well on "low tax state" metrics and you find they seriously put a hurt on someone with a real income with the 6.5% flat tax and they still have a sales taxes not much lower than ours, and well you still have property taxes too albeit at a lower rate. My income tax alone would be triple my property tax bill where I live now. Biggest redeeming factor not captured by those numbers ends up being costs of labor, including housing contractors, restaurants, healthcare which they CAN be considerably cheaper on though.
Loved the information! Some friends and I would love to see a comparison of Minnesota and Rapid City South Dakota. Minnesota's taxes have become untenable for many facing retirement. We could add vehicle registration to the growing list making MN one of the nations highest taxed states. I would be happy to pay for your services.
The source of income makes a big difference in NY. NYS pensions are not taxed and the first $20,000 of IRA withdrawals/person are not taxed. So, a couple that were both teachers can each easily have pensions of $50,000 each, plus $20,000 each from IRA, plus since the standard deduction is $16,000 this couple could then have an income of $156,000 and pay no state income tax. With this income in upstate NY you are doing very well and can spend those winters in the south if wanted.
There are a lot of variables. One of my friends was talking up Tennessee which eliminated their income tax, but I looked at their sales tax which is pretty high like mine in Washington, but Washington doesn’t have sales taxes on groceries. In Washington you could move into a different county and the sales taxes can be 2% lower, or you can shop in Oregon and pay no sales tax while living in Washington and paying no income taxes. Another factor is the price of utilities. I’ve looked at some different areas and they may pay two or three times what I pay for electricity, plus they need to run heating, or cooling more of the year which can add up on your monthly expenses
Another great video and discussion Eric. I'm very certain this will be useful for many. As a resident in the abominable California I can attest; yes, it really is that bad. Larry, Central Valley, Ca.
@@larryjones9773 It's a long story that I won't go into, but fortunately I am in a postition to handle it all okay and when things change in the situation over the next few years, I am planning to exit.
I live in San Diego. Best climate in the world. House is paid for. Property taxes go up 1-2% a year. Solar on the roof pays the electric bill. Changes are happening that aren't great but it's going to be impossible to find a better situation or community.
@@pattya1679 I'm moving to Irvine, CA, in a couple years. I'm a climate migrant (from Houston, TX). Due to heat/humidity, I'm stuck inside 6 months out of the year. I can no longer tolerate it.
Thank you for this very helpful video! 😊 We live in Illinois, which is a high property tax state, but that has zero income tax for retirement income. And, we currently have a 50% LTV mortgage loan fixed at 2.75%. Hard to imagine that it would make pure financial sense to relocate unless we could eliminate our mortgage, which we are not able to do, unfortunately. Would love a better climate, though. 😃 We are closing in quickly on our FRAs. Roughly 1/3 SSI, 1/3 pension, 1/3 retirement account withdrawals planned.
Crime/safety are important to retirees and should be a variable. Like to see some that are "top" preference specific e.g. near beach, large senior population. etc.
Western Washington State has excellent quality of life. Weather is mild all year. Air quality is mostly good. Home prices for new townhomes about $400k and new homes starting at $470k in some areas. Home insurance is lower here than some other states. The power grid is excellent. Good healthcare. A ton of waterfront properties due to large number of lakes and the ocean communities. The cost of living here is misleading given you get what you pay for. The first thing to consider is what's happening in several states with flooding, heat waves for weeks, power grid problems, fresh water shortage, Major storms, expensive home insurance, high property taxes, high utility costs and more. Best places to live are not always the cheapest and lowest taxed - they have an excellent quality of life. Almost every state and location has problems that are common everywhere. Cost of living estimates are really misleading due to big cities and prime areas that can change the average numbers. Costs are high everywhere in general. Eastern Washington is cheaper and has it's perks but it's on the other side of the mountains and gets harsh winters and summers and more critters like rattle snakes that you don't see in the west. Seattle gets a lot of bad press and yet it's a beautiful place to visit. But you can live an hour or so away from Seattle and there are really nice places and lower costs. Washington gets folding and fires but mostly in the area of the mountains and not so much in the Western side of the state especially inland Puget Sound area. Costs: housing $2k monthly, utilities/cable $360, food costs $150 week/$600 month low end for couple, home insurance $900 year, property taxes $3k per year, no state tax, sales tax 9.5%, car insurance $600 for six months. A couple needs about $48k per year and many live on less. Some areas are more costly and it depends on life style and so a family may need as much as $110k to live in comfort. Just remember you get what you pay for in terms of quality of life - for me weather is a big part of this and we some of the best weather in America.
I took advantage of the somewhat expanded brackets of Tax Cuts and Jobs Act to convert my 401(k) to a Roth IRA between 2016 and 2021. I figured that federal tax would always be large compared to state income tax. This also avoids taking a large distribution after age 65 that would subject me to an increase in Medicare premiums. I had used previous opportunities to convert IRA assets to a Roth IRA.
It entirely depends on how old you are in deciding whether to convert a 401K to a Roth. If you are young, a Roth makes huge sense. Converting to a Roth in your 40s or later can generate a huge tax bill. A conversion from a 401K to a Traditional IRA when you're middle-aged typically makes more sense.
Can you pls compare Hawaii, Texas, Nevada Utah pls. Hawaii Property tax and insurance are low but real estate is high. Would like to see how those other states compare to Hawaii. Thanks
Property tax can vary dramatically within the state. Basic cost of living can also vary dramatically. Frankly, I would look look at areas that meet ypur preference and research the costs in those areas or near those areas.
I live in Texas and will never retire here. Property taxes are insane and so are utility bills. There is NO way I’d live here on a fixed income or off of a retirement account. Way too expensive. With property taxes, insurance and utilities I spend 25k+ each year.
SC is a very nice state and I enjoy living on the coast. However, this area is very expensive. There are inexpensive areas of South Carolina but not sure it would appeal to an average retiree who needs access to excellent healthcare etc. It cheaper than California for sure even on the coast but there are pros and cons to all of these choices outside financial decisions.
In my opinion, when you retired, you do not have to take housing cost into consideration because by then your house should already be paid off. Property tax is something that you need to take into consideration. In addition, my questions is to move out of NJ and move to NC, is this a good choice? Not to take house cost into consideration.
I’d take house costs into consideration. If your paid off house is worth $300k less than your new house that will have a large impact on your finances. Likewise, if your house is worth $300k more than your new house you will have a nice cushion.
Rent first. Nobody can give you as good of advice as you can by bootsbon the ground research. Wife and I vacationed for years in Florida. Loved the warm winters. Had always considered at the very least buying a second home there or possibly a full relocation. Fortunately when we retired we decided to rent a home in SW Florida for 6 months first and further research and make an educated decision. We both came to the conclusion in less than 3 months that Florida was a great place to visit in the winter but owning a home their was definitely not a smart move financially. That was 5 years ago and we still winter in Florida but are thankful we didn't move there. We've literally met dozens of people who regret their move to Florida or have already thrown in the towel.
Those costs seem to be of people who have not retired, have kids at home and still paying a mortgage. Also the cost of selling and moving can take a huge hit on the home equity.
The recent NAR (National Association of Realtors) Settlement Agreement, will help some with moving costs. Home sellers will no longer need to pay the buyer's agent's 3% fee. And buyers can use the Internet to find their new home, without hiring an agent.
Comparing to your examples, I can’t understand Missouri. Sales tax close to 10% in our area, property tax (we pay around 5500 for a house worth 445k), and state income tax over 5%. Even WA sounds cheaper. Why? I guess no tourism or natural resource income?
@@_-Karl-_ yes, we have bottom tier, burned out inner cities, very rural small townships, and upper-middle income suburbs. Quite a range. That creates signifiant misconceptions when on,y looking at an ‘average’ from afar.
8-26-24 Cost is one thing but no way to get home owners insurance at all is the real California problem. State Farm will no longer write new home owners Insurence policies. The Banks won't finance an uninsured home. Some home owners are getting cancelation notices for having messy side yards full of junk, some for being too close to a fire hazard like a lot of trees.
Good video. Like all things, so many variables in these decisions. I think Tennessee and Arizona would be good states to add to the list. Tax free and common retiree locations. Comparing major city to major city for a couple of examples would be interesting. Only to show how to do it. Something like Washing DC to Tampa Florida or Dallas.
Not sure where you're getting your info from but New jersey is far from being a tax friendly state for retirees,and i think states like idaho,montana,wyoming,tennessee,and south dakota are far cheaper and more retirees are flocking to.
So sorry, forgot to add social security which is not axed either in NY so when this couple wishes to take SS that's another $25,000 or more each Now they are over $200,000 possible with no tax,
It's impossible for a general video to account for people who purchased their homes and have them paid off. In California, property taxes are based primarily on the sale price of the house. Those who bought at the bottom of the market and paid it off are good to stay even in an expensive market because housing is such a large share of expenses.
I can't buy a vandalized, burned down shed in CA for less than $150,000. I moved to TX nine years ago. I can retire around Labor Day in 2025. I just bought a 2-bedroom home here in TX for $55,000. State Farm also insures my car and home (which they won't if I move back to CA).
If there was a PERFECT state to live in, we'd all be there (spoiler alert: "ain't none"). Go where it "makes you smile", do your homework; move before retirement if you can, rather than after - easier to acclimate to your new surroundings while you still have income, health and ability and resources to make a change if necessary.
When doing a move/not move comparison, relying on those over-simplistic tax studies could actually hurt your financial position. Funny you used Michigan in the initial comparison - a subtle but big money saving factor in Michigan is something called “Proposal A”. This law protects existing homeowners from being driven out of their homes by annual property tax hikes. It says an existing homeowner’s property tax hike is capped by the lower of actual home price inflation in their area or 5%, whichever is lower. In our case we have lived in our home since before “Proposal A” (1994). Our property taxes are less than $2,500 per year. If we sold and bought back our home, our property taxes would more than DOUBLE to over $5,500. Furthermore, Michigan offers something called the “Homestead Tax Credit” that can rebate significant portion, even a third or more(!) of those property taxes back to the taxpayer if they have moderate income, often the case with retirees. And 5is tax credit is available to renters. All the state by state tax studies I have seen fail to recognize these factors.
@@_-Karl-_ our homestead property tax has nothing to do with age. And we have no problem whatsoever funding infrastructure and schools even though our kids have graduated. It is part of living in and supporting a community. Even from a selfish perspective, underfunding these items hurts the value of our home and deteriorates quality of life. What we do have a problem with is wasteful govt spending and pork barrel spending.
Would be amazing to see a video on your take re: top 10 best & worst states to retire based on cost and tax benefits
What I've learned from researching this subject in great depth completely agrees with your findings. Which is why we decided to stay put in our house and snowbird in Florida and summer in Upstate NY.
What is quickly becoming a huge non-tax expense in some states & especially Florida, is insurance costs for home & auto. Whatever tax savings maybe realized in a state like FL can be wiped out by the astronomical cost of insuring a home & a car there.
Florida has seen the highest cost of living increases the last 5 years. Throw in property taxes,home and flood insurance that's required in so many areas, utility rates, HOA rates. Sadly the one expense on the horizon that people didn't see coming is medical expenses for seniors. Not to mention the overall steep decline in medical care.
Glad to see this as the top comment. Living in Texas Nextdoor is full of people complaining about the escalating costs of their home owners insurance. Another thing to consider as you get older, life without AC is hard. Considering health conditions you may need to consider a home generator because the grid in Texas is not getting any more reliable.
Also important to mention another relatively unknown tax I NEVER hear talked about on these videos is the personal property tax on vehicles. 27 states have it, and it's typically annual, separate from vehicle registration renewals. The highest states are 3.5% to over 4.5% of a vehicle's value per year. This can amount to $1,700 - $2,300 annually. Even in the lowest states, people typically pay well into the hundreds just for this tax.
exactly !
Why would you live in Florida that gets hit by Hurricanes year after year?
BEFORE CONSIDERING A MOVE: visit your area, MORE THE ONE TIME. Rent a place for an extended period each time, preferably during the bad weather, high humidity etc, drive the highways,
Its important to visit more then 1 time,, the 1st time its, gee whiz, wow, look at that..the 2nd or 3rd time your starting to see it as it actually is,, damn highway traffic, homeless, crime, quality of people in the area etc...
Remember even the most exotic vacation spot has it's trade offs,,
Would be nice to compare the zero or low state tax against each other. Would also be interesting to see to a few international destinations, especially during a Roth conversion window.
There was a time when low state taxes were something to consider. It's become a moot point in most states because you truly get what ya pay for and they hit you with multiple other fees that make up that differential
Another great video, more state data would be appreciated. Oklahoma Alabama Arizona Utah. Thanks
Move to a no income tax state (if you live in an income tax state), become a resident then move overseas. The cost to live outside the US is significantly cheaper. If you live overseas and pay income tax in that country you can get a foreign tax credit to reduce your federal taxes dollar for dollar. Or become a perpetual traveler in retirement and explore the world without paying a foreign country any income taxes, just limit your time in a country to under the 90-day limit (for most visa free countries). People are doing this type of slow travel for under $2K a month and if your income as $4K a month or more you will live extremely comfortably in most areas of the world.
One thing to keep in mind when comparing NYC to other cities is the massive cost of car ownership. Assuming you won't need a car in NYC but would need it elsewhere, the differences in expenses can be less massive than they first appear on paper.
Average annual cost of car ownership is over $10,000, and outside of NYC more couples than not own two cars
The thing that throws a wrench into the California analysis is proposition 13, which essentially means that if you've been working in California and owned a house there for an appreciable time, your property tax is kept artificially low. The analysis in this video (which is very much appreciated) seems to be based on the premise that you move into the state at retirement. However because of Prop 13, staying in California after retirement can be much more competitive with moving to another state, if you've owned your house a decade or two and plan to stay in it.
True. And property tax is not a function of income so stays high when your income drops
As a resident of CA for 25 years, and the owner of two houses in TX (where we plan to move for retirement in about 5 years), Prop 13 is quite nice. However, everyone's situation is different. Due to the more affordable housing/land in TX, it attracted me for that reason. Half an acre in the Bay Area ain't happening for me but no biggie in TX. Yes, the property tax in TX is quite annoying (they need a Prop 13!!). I wanted a decent chunk of land to build a nice wood/metal shop to while away my golden years in--and I wasn't moving to Central Cali for it! So I plan to cash out my nicely appreciated home and build a retirement house/shop in TX.
Right now california is having issues with homeowners insurance companies raising rates or cancelling people and that does effect retirees,which i am one and looking to leave.
This was extremely useful. The more "holistic" look at living expenses is probably key, and I've not heard many others talking about it. (Also, as a resident of Iowa, I can confirm... there's no easy ocean access or views readily available, for any price.)
Pennsylvania does not tax retirement income!
Pa 😚
Texas has no state tax but property tax is high and continues to grow every year.
Move to Nevada
Property tax in TX is highly dependent on school district tax and that varies widely.
What about a retired Federal employee??? Some states do not take the Federal pension and the withdraw from the TSP. About 11 states do that.
I would like to hear more about this
From our experience moving to and from SC and WI in early 90's, the cost of housing was the main benefit. As you mentioned that cost advantage has largely disappeared today due to the influx of retirees. As for "taxes", in general we found them to be comparable on the whole but taken from different areas i.e. higher sales tax, personal property tax on cars, boats. Also keep in mind the quality and availability of services that your taxes pay for is different as well.
I love this. I live in Texas, which has toll roads. These are taxes on using public highways. They have other similar 'non-tax' taxes. It would be interesting to see analysis that includes the 'non-tax' taxes.
San Antonio doesn't have any tolls
Great analysis! Can you cover NV as a comparison to the 5 alternatives CA residents are moving to?
I can tell you that for many retirees Washington State is not a good choice. There is no state income tax, but the sales tax, and every other state tax for that matter, is very high. The worst is that the estate tax is punitive and causes many retirees over 70 to look to states like Arizona. Yes, you pay a little more in income tax, but if planned correctly your income can be minimized and your heirs get the benefit of your frugality and hard work and not an avaricious state government
We love our state - Michigan - most of the year. When we get cabin fever in January or February, we chose a temperate climate and rent there for several weeks or longer. And if we like, every year we can we can vary that temperate climate location. We also avoid the brutal summer heat of many “typical” retiree locations this way.
You couldn’t pay me to live in Texas or Florida. California, New England and/or Pacific Northwest fine by me. Sanity and quality of life.
California is an expensive state! Mostly not affordable to people moving-in just now. But, if you are a longtime resident, own property -- and have a low property tax bill (thanks to prop 13) -- living her can be a joy. And reasonably cheap. Clearly California has all of the other states beat when it comes to weather (especially coastal southern California residents).
We are comfortable in our 70s living in Phoenix Arizona. Most days are sunny and warm. Even January the days are nice enough to take walks in the 60s. Excellent costs overall and no ice worries. Taxes are fine too. Our other home is Texas. Still great place to retire although it runs second to Arizona. Last place is Florida due to property tax and property insurance increases. If taxes are not an issue for you, then Florida shares the top spot for us. For example, we have had USAA for fifty years. They won’t insure in Florida.
A lot of people in Florida are facing insurance issues now and I don’t think I would want to buy anything there until they figure it out. But insurance is becoming a problem in California and other places with fires. Even here in western Washington fire risk is starting to affect some areas insurance coverage
Thanks for sharing facts👋😎🙏💪☝️👍
I’m in FL and have USAA. A mile from the ocean. They’ve insured this house for over 23 years. However, they would not issue a policy if I was buying today. They will issue new policies on some properties in FL again now. Just not a house like mine on a barrier island.
@@midlife_minimalist thank you for Usaa update on your home. We called Usaa a few years ago on insurance for a potential home in the Gulf Coast. They said no. And the insurance costs were simply outrageous. We considered Jacksonville also beat the Mayo Clinic and will revisit that area on our next trip to Florida.
Agreed, additional states like Nevada, Arizona, Idaho?
Shhhhh don't encourage anyone
@@boogieondown5824 Don't worry!
The Washington state cost of living is skewed by the Seattle metro area. Live anywhere else and it’s quite affordable
If you think people are moving to new jersey to retire you must live on another planet. I moved out of new jersey about two years ago and at the time my property taxes alone were twenty six thousand dollars a year along with high income tax and high sales tax.
Agreed, plus NJ has an inheritance tax, not mentioned in the video...
I'm moving to Tennessee from California. One missed thing is that prop 13 in CA that limits property tax to 1% is already bypassed by mello roos taxes. My average property tax is around 1.5%. My home in Tennessee will be less than .5%, with an equivalent sales tax to California without an income tax. Making 350k a year I'll be saving at least 3k a month in taxation, if not more.
See you in Franklin
This needs to include the costs 0f property taxes over the years you pay them. If they increase, by how much and at what rate as they assessed value of you home changes.
I’m finding California to be fairly reasonable. The prop 13 tax freezes leave me paying about $12k / year on my $1.8M home. My neighbor is paying something like $1k. He’s been here longer. Solar puts a dent in the high electricity rates. The EV cuts the fuel bill by maybe 70%. What remains is food and the Amazon bill. What I am not paying is the hefty heating or a/c bills I would be paying if I moved to these “cheaper” areas. It is also nice to be outside nearly all of the year so easier to get exercise.
California’s income tax can actually go to 13.3%. However it is progressive, and doesn’t ramp up until fairly late around $80k.
I’m happy to see other retirees leaving. Those homes should go to young families with kiddies. However for me, I’m not going to be living in a redwood forest in any other state.
You are correct. Thanks for the correction on 13.3% vs. 12.3%.
I'm a native of SOUTHERN CA and had your conditions, but left in 2022 and am only sorry I did not leave in 2000! I am saving a TON in state income tax and a lot more. The entire standard of living there has become "third-world" and no one can deny it = crowds, "freeway" nightmares, crime, homelessness and so much more. I now have solar in SC and my monthly utility dropped by 2/3 (!) from my CA bill = very cold winter nights! What else. . . I could go on and on and on. . . Good luck and hope it continues to be "fairly reasonable." (PS. Getting exercise is easy everywhere. . . it has NOTHING to do with the weather)
SC gets cold??🤨 California has criminal CCP controlling Woke Politicians🤷🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🙇🏽♂️
on certain things they aren't bad but homeowners insurance is out of control,i live in so cal and im retired and besides their pathetic politics and other things im looking to leave.
Hello Eric! Many thanks for this video, great comparison & very helpful! All the best.
Can you make the data, or at least some basic data, that you compiled or ended at available for all states?
I live in FL and am looking to move to NY which frighten me until I ran the numbers. Rural NY has cheap housing, (
Ny suck taxes and political leaning
@@kckuc310 Mine came out to zero taxes living on Social Security. When you are retired and probably have ten years left, politics is the last thing you want to focus that time on.
@@robevans2114I'm starting to come around to your way of thinking. A lot less stressful.
As you probably know, NY state property taxes are figured as a percentage to a homes assesment but as a buyer the homes selling price which is much higher than the assessment value of the seller in most cases. That's really not that unusual. What truly sucks is the percentage amount in most of the rural areas. Some close to 3% annually vs NY city that's as low as 1%. So you could be paying the same amount on a 500k home in the sticks vs a 1.5 million home in the city.
My family is from the North Country region upstate. I've never lived their but still vacationed there my entire life. Wife and I retired in 2020 and planned on buying a vacation type home on the St Lawrence until we looked at the taxes. At the time property taxes on a 500k home were in the 12 to 15k annually. That's double what I pay on a similar valued home in the mid atlantic. In a state that's rated one of the top 3 most expensive states to retire in. When I was working with a realtor she said the state legislature has destroyed the second/vacation home market with this legislation.
That is a big weather/climate change.
Good analysis. I would be interested to see all states ranked similarly. Also, the property tax rate can be a little misleading because in some states like Michigan, if you have lived in your house for a long time the rate is based on original buying price + inflation, not current market value. Of course, if the question is about whether to move, this doesn't apply.
Anyway, would be interested how all states rank for retiree's.
Another tax gotcha - how many things a state applies its “property tax” to -
In many states the “property tax” only applies to real estate.
In other states like North Carolina, the property tax applies to real estate PLUS vehicles, boats, jet skis, and RV’s… every year! And these additional taxes are very material, often several hundred $ per year.
your kidding???
@@speedwayman100 nope. Talk to someone who lives in North Carolina and owns more than an house.
@@M22Research wow,that's unbelievable.
@@speedwayman100 I believe North Carolina is far from alone in this taxing aspect.
@@M22Research i'm sure you're correct.
Californian born and bred. Just retired two years ago. Would love to move someplace cheaper. But when I look at various states I'm always left asking "What's the weather like"? Living in N. California I've been spoiled by the weather. Couldn't imagine moving to a place with snow, high humidity, tornados, hurricanes, sleet and summer rain. It's worth it to me (at least right now) to stay. Plus my house is paid off, that helps.
California has the best, mildest weather hands down--no state can touch it. That said, I'm heading to Texas (most likely) to retire. I can't afford the land area I want in the Bay Area and, yes, cost of living is high here. I will cash out my home I bought in 1998 in the BA whose property taxes are actually cheaper than the place we bought in Austin 5 years ago! Go figure.
It's just those pathetic woke politicians🤔🤨🤷🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🙇🏽♂️
@@Justaguywithtruth using the term woke is soooo yesterday
@elizabethlibero1878 🤔🤨But if they were Woke yesterday, and woke today they are still the same fool's, which means they have not changed📕🧐🤷🏽♂️🙆🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🙇🏽♂️🤣😂
You have to balance your income level in to retirement and WHAT each state taxes not just the average tax responsibility of its residents. Some states tax income and assets, some states tax more sales taxes and things which generally affect lower incomes more. Having lived all my life in WA and most of that making a decent salary, while everyone complains about WA taxes and for low/medium income they can be, the truth is, above a certain amount of income, it's a pretty sweet place to live. Zero income tax, property taxes decently under 1% depending on area, by buying a smaller retirement house outside the inflated king/snoco markets you can make out quite well and not have much to worry about in planning outside your property and general sales taxes. I've calculated what I would pay in most other states and I haven't found one that would be more favorable from a tax perspective.
Compare it to like Idaho which often scores quite well on "low tax state" metrics and you find they seriously put a hurt on someone with a real income with the 6.5% flat tax and they still have a sales taxes not much lower than ours, and well you still have property taxes too albeit at a lower rate. My income tax alone would be triple my property tax bill where I live now. Biggest redeeming factor not captured by those numbers ends up being costs of labor, including housing contractors, restaurants, healthcare which they CAN be considerably cheaper on though.
Loved the information!
Some friends and I would love to see a comparison of Minnesota and Rapid City South Dakota.
Minnesota's taxes have become untenable for many facing retirement. We could add vehicle registration to the growing list making MN one of the nations highest taxed states.
I would be happy to pay for your services.
Hurricanes and homeowners insurance eclipse any advantages of moving to Florida these days.
The source of income makes a big difference in NY. NYS pensions are not taxed and the first $20,000 of IRA withdrawals/person are not taxed. So, a couple that were both teachers can each easily have pensions of $50,000 each, plus $20,000 each from IRA, plus since the standard deduction is $16,000 this couple could then have an income of $156,000 and pay no state income tax. With this income in upstate NY you are doing very well and can spend those winters in the south if wanted.
NJ property taxes are nuts....especially for retirees
Weather is terrible, traffic crazy
There are a lot of variables. One of my friends was talking up Tennessee which eliminated their income tax, but I looked at their sales tax which is pretty high like mine in Washington, but Washington doesn’t have sales taxes on groceries. In Washington you could move into a different county and the sales taxes can be 2% lower, or you can shop in Oregon and pay no sales tax while living in Washington and paying no income taxes.
Another factor is the price of utilities. I’ve looked at some different areas and they may pay two or three times what I pay for electricity, plus they need to run heating, or cooling more of the year which can add up on your monthly expenses
i was looking at washington years ago until i started looking at their politics,f*ck that state lol.
@@speedwayman100 we are happy you won’t be coming
@@kenmcclow8963 so i guess you're one of those flaming lefties,enjoy the flamer way.
Another great video and discussion Eric. I'm very certain this will be useful for many. As a resident in the abominable California I can attest; yes, it really is that bad. Larry, Central Valley, Ca.
But, you continue to live there....?
@@larryjones9773 It's a long story that I won't go into, but fortunately I am in a postition to handle it all okay and when things change in the situation over the next few years, I am planning to exit.
I live in San Diego. Best climate in the world. House is paid for. Property taxes go up 1-2% a year. Solar on the roof pays the electric bill. Changes are happening that aren't great but it's going to be impossible to find a better situation or community.
@@pattya1679 I'm moving to Irvine, CA, in a couple years. I'm a climate migrant (from Houston, TX). Due to heat/humidity, I'm stuck inside 6 months out of the year. I can no longer tolerate it.
Thank you for this very helpful video! 😊
We live in Illinois, which is a high property tax state, but that has zero income tax for retirement income. And, we currently have a 50% LTV mortgage loan fixed at 2.75%. Hard to imagine that it would make pure financial sense to relocate unless we could eliminate our mortgage, which we are not able to do, unfortunately. Would love a better climate, though. 😃 We are closing in quickly on our FRAs. Roughly 1/3 SSI, 1/3 pension, 1/3 retirement account withdrawals planned.
Crime/safety are important to retirees and should be a variable. Like to see some that are "top" preference specific e.g. near beach, large senior population. etc.
Western Washington State has excellent quality of life. Weather is mild all year. Air quality is mostly good. Home prices for new townhomes about $400k and new homes starting at $470k in some areas. Home insurance is lower here than some other states. The power grid is excellent. Good healthcare. A ton of waterfront properties due to large number of lakes and the ocean communities. The cost of living here is misleading given you get what you pay for. The first thing to consider is what's happening in several states with flooding, heat waves for weeks, power grid problems, fresh water shortage, Major storms, expensive home insurance, high property taxes, high utility costs and more. Best places to live are not always the cheapest and lowest taxed - they have an excellent quality of life. Almost every state and location has problems that are common everywhere. Cost of living estimates are really misleading due to big cities and prime areas that can change the average numbers. Costs are high everywhere in general. Eastern Washington is cheaper and has it's perks but it's on the other side of the mountains and gets harsh winters and summers and more critters like rattle snakes that you don't see in the west. Seattle gets a lot of bad press and yet it's a beautiful place to visit. But you can live an hour or so away from Seattle and there are really nice places and lower costs. Washington gets folding and fires but mostly in the area of the mountains and not so much in the Western side of the state especially inland Puget Sound area. Costs: housing $2k monthly, utilities/cable $360, food costs $150 week/$600 month low end for couple, home insurance $900 year, property taxes $3k per year, no state tax, sales tax 9.5%, car insurance $600 for six months. A couple needs about $48k per year and many live on less. Some areas are more costly and it depends on life style and so a family may need as much as $110k to live in comfort. Just remember you get what you pay for in terms of quality of life - for me weather is a big part of this and we some of the best weather in America.
Where in Washington do you live? It sounds wonderful
I took advantage of the somewhat expanded brackets of Tax Cuts and Jobs Act to convert my 401(k) to a Roth IRA between 2016 and 2021. I figured that federal tax would always be large compared to state income tax. This also avoids taking a large distribution after age 65 that would subject me to an increase in Medicare premiums. I had used previous opportunities to convert IRA assets to a Roth IRA.
It entirely depends on how old you are in deciding whether to convert a 401K to a Roth. If you are young, a Roth makes huge sense. Converting to a Roth in your 40s or later can generate a huge tax bill. A conversion from a 401K to a Traditional IRA when you're middle-aged typically makes more sense.
Can you pls compare Hawaii, Texas, Nevada Utah pls. Hawaii Property tax and insurance are low but real estate is high. Would like to see how those other states compare to Hawaii. Thanks
Everything in Hawaii is more expensive just due to needing to ship everything there.
Property tax can vary dramatically within the state. Basic cost of living can also vary dramatically.
Frankly, I would look look at areas that meet ypur preference and research the costs in those areas or near those areas.
Great video. Let’s do: Alabama, Oklahoma, and North Carolina.
I live in WA state. Yeah, no income tax, but those sales taxes are painful, especially when you go to buy a car. 😬
You could buy a car in another state, but when you license it in Washington, you will need to pay the tax then.
I live in Texas and will never retire here. Property taxes are insane and so are utility bills. There is NO way I’d live here on a fixed income or off of a retirement account. Way too expensive. With property taxes, insurance and utilities I spend 25k+ each year.
I thought a year ago or so the governor made a big deal about dropping property taxes like in half for most texans,what ever happened to that?
SC is a very nice state and I enjoy living on the coast. However, this area is very expensive. There are inexpensive areas of South Carolina but not sure it would appeal to an average retiree who needs access to excellent healthcare etc. It cheaper than California for sure even on the coast but there are pros and cons to all of these choices outside financial decisions.
Great content. Would love to see all the income tax free states compared!
In my opinion, when you retired, you do not have to take housing cost into consideration because by then your house should already be paid off. Property tax is something that you need to take into consideration. In addition, my questions is to move out of NJ and move to NC, is this a good choice? Not to take house cost into consideration.
Yes
I’d take house costs into consideration. If your paid off house is worth $300k less than your new house that will have a large impact on your finances. Likewise, if your house is worth $300k more than your new house you will have a nice cushion.
Rent first. Nobody can give you as good of advice as you can by bootsbon the ground research.
Wife and I vacationed for years in Florida. Loved the warm winters. Had always considered at the very least buying a second home there or possibly a full relocation. Fortunately when we retired we decided to rent a home in SW Florida for 6 months first and further research and make an educated decision. We both came to the conclusion in less than 3 months that Florida was a great place to visit in the winter but owning a home their was definitely not a smart move financially. That was 5 years ago and we still winter in Florida but are thankful we didn't move there. We've literally met dozens of people who regret their move to Florida or have already thrown in the towel.
CA property tax is 1.25% where I live not 0.75% . The base is 1%…
My Florida property taxes are 1.65% so the average can be very misleading.
Those costs seem to be of people who have not retired, have kids at home and still paying a mortgage. Also the cost of selling and moving can take a huge hit on the home equity.
The recent NAR (National Association of Realtors) Settlement Agreement, will help some with moving costs. Home sellers will no longer need to pay the buyer's agent's 3% fee. And buyers can use the Internet to find their new home, without hiring an agent.
Cost of living numbers shown are based on Bureau of Labor Statistics' data for those over 65
Texas is too hot, and the property taxes are too high. I'm moving to TN.
Please analyze all 50 states.
Comparing to your examples, I can’t understand Missouri. Sales tax close to 10% in our area, property tax (we pay around 5500 for a house worth 445k), and state income tax over 5%. Even WA sounds cheaper. Why? I guess no tourism or natural resource income?
@@_-Karl-_ yes, we have bottom tier, burned out inner cities, very rural small townships, and upper-middle income suburbs. Quite a range. That creates signifiant misconceptions when on,y looking at an ‘average’ from afar.
Texas effective property tax is about 50% higher than you reported, even at the figure you used.
8-26-24 Cost is one thing but no way to get home owners insurance at all is the real California problem. State Farm will no longer write new home owners Insurence policies. The Banks won't finance an uninsured home. Some home owners are getting cancelation notices for having messy side yards full of junk, some for being too close to a fire hazard like a lot of trees.
Nice analysis.
Good video. Like all things, so many variables in these decisions. I think Tennessee and Arizona would be good states to add to the list. Tax free and common retiree locations.
Comparing major city to major city for a couple of examples would be interesting. Only to show how to do it. Something like Washing DC to Tampa Florida or Dallas.
Not sure where you're getting your info from but New jersey is far from being a tax friendly state for retirees,and i think states like idaho,montana,wyoming,tennessee,and south dakota are far cheaper and more retirees are flocking to.
So sorry, forgot to add social security which is not axed either in NY so when this couple wishes to take SS that's another $25,000 or more each Now they are over $200,000 possible with no tax,
It's impossible for a general video to account for people who purchased their homes and have them paid off. In California, property taxes are based primarily on the sale price of the house. Those who bought at the bottom of the market and paid it off are good to stay even in an expensive market because housing is such a large share of expenses.
Too many people headed to Florida and Texas
LOL, I know several who moved to TX and moved back here to CA after finding the true cost of TX.
I can't buy a vandalized, burned down shed in CA for less than $150,000. I moved to TX nine years ago. I can retire around Labor Day in 2025. I just bought a 2-bedroom home here in TX for $55,000. State Farm also insures my car and home (which they won't if I move back to CA).
People are retiring and moving to...New Jersey???
Yes I’d like to see more states, in my case specifically NC
State averages are misleading. You need to look at the city or county you want to live in.
If there was a PERFECT state to live in, we'd all be there (spoiler alert: "ain't none"). Go where it "makes you smile", do your homework; move before retirement if you can, rather than after - easier to acclimate to your new surroundings while you still have income, health and ability and resources to make a change if necessary.
When doing a move/not move comparison, relying on those over-simplistic tax studies could actually hurt your financial position.
Funny you used Michigan in the initial comparison - a subtle but big money saving factor in Michigan is something called “Proposal A”. This law protects existing homeowners from being driven out of their homes by annual property tax hikes. It says an existing homeowner’s property tax hike is capped by the lower of actual home price inflation in their area or 5%, whichever is lower.
In our case we have lived in our home since before “Proposal A” (1994). Our property taxes are less than $2,500 per year. If we sold and bought back our home, our property taxes would more than DOUBLE to over $5,500.
Furthermore, Michigan offers something called the “Homestead Tax Credit” that can rebate significant portion, even a third or more(!) of those property taxes back to the taxpayer if they have moderate income, often the case with retirees. And 5is tax credit is available to renters.
All the state by state tax studies I have seen fail to recognize these factors.
@@_-Karl-_ our homestead property tax has nothing to do with age.
And we have no problem whatsoever funding infrastructure and schools even though our kids have graduated.
It is part of living in and supporting a community.
Even from a selfish perspective, underfunding these items hurts the value of our home and deteriorates quality of life.
What we do have a problem with is wasteful govt spending and pork barrel spending.
Add Tennessee
Yes, more states in the low brackets. Say the lowest 20 based on average conditions in each one. That would be very helpful. 👍
I’m sorry,
People are NOT moving to NJ.
I don’t know where you get your info from, but it’s not even remotely accurate.
New Jersey??!! Seriously???
You seem to be missing so many negatives of Florida.
who the hell makes 100 grand retired???
why not make a video on a more normal retirement amount like 40k? plus 18k social security?
Colorado, Oregon, North Carolina
Blah. blah, blah... just tell us what state the best is, Jesus Christ !