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Victim here. I have purchased way to many cleaned coins. Especially for those starting out, buy only coins graded by the reputable grading companies and as Daniel always says, "DO YOUR HOMEWORK"!
I do buy coins that are cleaned. I do not pay like they are original. A person just needs to know the difference and how that may affect your resale. Being a man of limited means, also I may not necessarily afford the uncleaned coins. It also depends on the level cleaning. The more harshly cleaned or multiple cleanings the more altered the result. It also depends upon your taste, if you can't deal with knowing your coin has been cleaned, well collect what you like, please do. Also if you have a coin and it has been stored in a PVC environment, please know in my opinion it is best to bite the bullet and get that stuff off your coin as a PVC damaged coin is going to become more valueless than a cleaned coin. In general a properly cleaned coin may take a one time damage hit where leaving PVC oils on your coin will cause the coin to continue to irreversibly decline.
@@mikecrooks8085 I also sometimes buy a cleaned one, especially if it is a historical coin that I want for its history instead of quality. Also, properly removing PVC using acetone leaves no marks and is great to "clean" a coin without having it marked as cleaned
Thanks to people like you and Bill for going the extra mile to educate collectors. I have purchased a few cull and cleaned coins over the years from people who were upfront about it, because they were affordable versions of coins I would not otherwise have been able to add to my collection, as it is a collection for my pleasure and not just an investment.
Always remember that when that time comes to sell there are plenty of people out there like us that will still buy and enjoy the cleaned coin just that it now becomes part of the grade. I have seen how grading has evolved over the years and I bet that in the future coins will be rated as uncleaned, or cleaned, and then the cleaning itself will be rated from lightly done to harshly with everything in between.
Thanks Daniel! This video was very informative and pertinent for me. I just received an 1888 S back from grading . Your video takes the mystery out of why it was unc details and not ms64. Greatly appreciated!
IMO… been collecting coins since the 80’s, prior to that my father and grandfather collected, and I inherited their collection. All of us had access to newer coins because we are/were bankers. Personally, I have no problem with a cleaned coin so long as the cleaning process did not wear out or ruin the metal itself, and any credible dealer will know immediately if it did after magnifying it…
Great info and I agree 100% I find it sad that so many nice coin were damaged from over cleaning and polishing, 2 that cleaned coins lose so much value. I like the fact ANACS still puts the grade a cleaned coin would have gotten if unaltered, I think more of the top tier grading company's need to be in the restoring end of coins then just grading, way less coins would be damaged if people knew to send them in and they that would restore them then give a grade if done right, I've seen holed coin fixed so well you could not till it had ever been holed but PCGS would never give a hard case and details let a lone a straight grade on a well done restore, it makes people not care about less then perfect coins I E coin rings destroying low grade coin. But thats my thoughts, thank you for sharing God bless.
I will buy them cleaned if the price is correct. For instance, I knowingly bought a cleaned 1879-S Morgan this past week that had Liberty obviously touched up (harsh/improper dip). I still got it because the coin had nice, natural reflective fields and a spectacular reverse that WEREN'T cleaned. Some idiot had obviously shined up Liberty to get a couple extra bucks with a "nicer" picture on Ebay. My local dealer sold it to me for $39. I hope he bought it from the guy who tried to clean it.
It is tough at times to not buy a cleaned coin. Sometimes lighting in a coin shop is not great. I do get a refund if I return the coin. I have a much better set-up at home to look at a coin better.
Most of my cleaned coins are XF- AU. They have an unnatural shine with little to no luster. It can be difficult to ID a cleaned coin on an ebay picture.
Well ?? If it hasn't been in a holder for last hundred years... How can anyone expect a perfect finish still ? Wether its cleaned a bit or used a bit.. wouldn't that equate the same ? Now what if its used a lot, half worn off... vs a nice cleaned coin, same date ? Would we rather have a half worn F cond 1909 S VDB Wheat Cent or a great looking BU cond thats cleaned example ? I find it hard to believe that collecting coins that were in circulation and put thru all kinds of abuse comes with a taboo to avoid clean coins. A cleaned coin is better by far than 90% of all other coins worn and dull. To display and view. Too much emphasis placed on this cleaning thing. Unless its placing value on a MS 67+ etc. vs one cleaned. But should end there. My view !
I stopped buying raw numismatic coins years ago, period end of story. Out of every 5 raw coins I used to buy, 4 of them ended up being problem coins or highly suspect. Flat, missing toning is not always apparent in photos, but as soon as I have them in hand, I know it's dead. There's usually a REASON those coins are not in slabs, and it's not grading fees! TPG may get the grades off by a point or two, but I'm always confident that when they give a numerical grade, the coin has not been doctored or compromised.
Excellent my man!!!!! Daniel, you always have a way of getting to questions I have, I wrote a dealer yesterday and asked, This is a graded coin, AU-58 "Details" Is it an AU coin or not? He responded actually "It was" at one time. WOW!!! Thank you so much Daniel!!!!!!!!!!!
I have a few straight graded PCGS coins that I'm certain were cleaned. I noticed others at a local coin show I went to on January 8th that appeared obviously cleaned. One thing I noticed is they had something in common - all were in generation 4.6 holders. Might just be a coincidence but that was the pattern I observed.
I would add one unfortunate fact that ruined half a dozen mint-state 1921 Morgans (including one D and one S) that I had purchased uncased when I first started collecting. Potato chip oil on my fingers had ruined whatever the 1921's used to finish the surface. I'd handled a few other coins that didn't take it well, either, including a nice burnished Silver Eagle. I still remember watching a similar finish dissolve like a wave on the reverse on a 2014 uncirculated Denver silver Kennedy from the collector set. My chubby thumbs must have touched part of the field. I'd only held these along the rim. If anyone reading this is new to the hobby, don't make my mistake - DO NOT pick up coins unless you have gloves, or at least have washed your hands and have accepted any consequences that could result from ungloved handling. You may end up accidentally cleaning perfectly fine coins as a result.
My thing is that there other dealers out there posting videos of buying PCGS and NGC graded coins that are labeled as “cleaned” or “altered” or whatever and cracking the coin out and sending it off to the opposing grading company and getting straight grades. It’s unfair to the end client that those coins that were once labeled as cleaned just got put into a different holder and labeled as problem free. That’s just why that grading companies are FARRRR from the authority on “details” coins or even coin grading. Gotta just buy from reputable dealers
I hate the anti-cleaning rhetoric. Cleaning to remove contaminants is absolutely necessary for good preservation. In some cases (ancients from hoards), cleaning is necessary to uncover original details. Cleaning is important. What you're talking about is physically removing a part of the coin for aesthetic reasons, which is neither cleaning nor conservation. Aesthetics are a matter of taste. Even though the current fashion is unaltered coins, many collectors prefer bright white with nicks and scratches removed.
you know i recently picked up a semi key date morgan and almost 200% positive now that its been cleaned at some point and time thank you for the awesome informational video's
Thank you Coin Master Daniel, seems if we had that scope we could see the groves, do you have that scope it would be cool to actually see it, can Mr. Cherry Picker lend it to you? oh can you ask him how to get his book I can not find it anywhere.
Looking at Ebay lots, I see a bunch, of cleaned and whizzed coins. Morgan $'s the worst. There has been a HUGE increase in the # of cleaned from what I seen in the past. The reason being: $. Take a MS 55 or 58, polish or clean it, looks more like a 63 now. There can be a huge difference in value. Take a 92s Morgan for example. Compare MS 55 to 63. Unless you are very knowledgeable, only buy valuable high grade coins, which have been authenticated & graded. This includes buying at shows. There are crooks in this hobby, as well as honest, who do not know how to grade.
I am selling our coins and have discovered a lot of them are cleaned. They are graded and being sold as such for a deep discount. I guess back in the day it was ok to clean coins?
It was once considered proper to clean coins especially if handling had left "finger prints". Justified as preventing further damage from oils and acids deposited by handling. Guides for museums recommended a regular cleaning schedule also to remove atmospheric deposits. Not all cleaning should be considered to be intended to fool a buyer into thinking they're getting a better coin. It was often done with good intentions.
Daniel you are the best and the sad part is there is no perfect science to this and sometimes borderline coins or even different years are graded differently. My favorite total BS graded coins are the shipwreck coins. If you or I found a shipwreck coin in the water our coin would be graded environmental damage or harshly cleaned if we cleaned off the coral from the coin. But nooooo if you have a famous name or are in kohoots with the big grading company to make some money you can harshly clean your ship wreck coins and get straight grades from the grading companies.
The only thing I would argue is that the altered color or questionable color coins are not always the case.The graders are only human and it's a judgment call.I have submitted Lincoln cents straight out of mint sets and have gotten straight grades and details grades.
Just bought a Morgan silver dollar last week got it in yesterday as I looked at it I thought to myself something wrong here I think it’s being cleaned!
These several coins were encapsulated “UNC details genuine” “whizzed” “cleaned”. What is the difference between these coins and that are returned in “body bags”?
Usually body bags are due to inability to determine circulation wear. Whizzing is mechanical alteration and cleaning refers to chemical. Beyond a certain point cleaning or whizzing will become enough to be "unable to assign a grade".
Sorry for the third post in a row. I should join your forum! I understood the peaks and valleys concept but didn't understand what to look for in your demonstration. The 1882 looked cleaned by the mushy texture of the year and the stars but I couldn't see what you meant as to its lack of peaks and valleys - maybe I should buy a few BU coins at silver cost from my LCS and do some of the sneaker methods myself, just to have examples.
Thanks for sharing Daniel, I have collected coins for years and I have cleaned coins, due to my ignorance when I started. I have lost a lot of money from this do to the seller calling them au, Ms coins. I have a coin shop in my area, that dips most of their coins and puts them in a coin holder reading a grade and the price is higher. This is a huge problem and the average collector, not a stacker gets burned. I will not buy a shiny coin unless it's been slabbed and graded by a reputable grading company. The prices are too high to loose money.
You know Daniel, It's also a huge honor to have a teacher such as yourself, you know what your talking about and your an honest man!!!!!!!!!!! It would be just as much of an honor to get to have a conversation with you, AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It took me awhile to get away from purchasing 'cleaned coins'. I like the look of beautiful coins, cleaned or not. That's just me though. I collect for the history of the coin. When you scope any coin, you are going to see things you don't want to. I do it to see the dates. All mine are raw, used, circulated, decent shape, no culls. I get what you are saying for sure Daniel. I'm going to start calling you Professor Daniel, because you are always teaching me something everyday. Thanks.
I have a question for you.. I have a 2011 walking liberty silver dollar. Looking at the front of the coin. She is looking at you but if you flip it over the eagle is up side down. Plus the word liberty has doubling in it. Is this an error coin.
Maybe it’s me but I don’t care to have cleaned coins. It’s nice to buy UNC details slabbed coins. To an extent. I avoid the obvious cleaned coins. You can buy these coins for a fraction of the price and they in my opinion look the same. 10:16 is a good example of what I’m saying.
Daniel, thank you and Bill for educating us on cleaned coins not having peaks and valleys on the reflective quality. Whenever the subject of cleaned coins comes about I am always thinking of a Seller to me on Ebay that got ripped off by an Ebay Seller. This illustrates the importance of what you are saying in this video. The Seller to me of the coin bought a 1892 Columbian Expo Commemorative Half Dollar Coin on Ebay sold to him as a 1892 Columbian Commemorative Half Dollar "BU." He was not able to see that it was cleaned from the pictures. I don't know how much he paid, I am guessing $25-$35 dollars. He then gets the coin and sends it to NGC to get it graded, so at the time that is another $25, so he is into the coin for $50-$65. Then he receives the 1892 back from NGC and they grade it as "Improperly Cleaned" UNC Details. He doesn't want it now and puts it for sale on Ebay for the date Columbus sailed $14.92 plus $5.00 shipping. I just wanted an example of that coin, bid on it, and was the only bid. The Seller lost over $35.00.
Will cleaned coins still get melt price from a shop? Does it only destroy numismatic value? How much should I take off listed price for a cleaned coin?
People collect cleaned coins and pay almost the same price. Only expensive high grade does it matter.coins always sell for more than melt unless thay are damaged.
wicked video! Another good reason not to pay graded prices AU-58 or higher for a 'raw' coin (ungraded). Right off the top you are at the seller's mercy if they graded the coin correctly and it could be cleaned to top it off!
If a coine is dirty you clean it. All most all coins have been cleaned. No problem, expect that. If you only collect unclean coins you won't collect much.
I like the finds Collecting. I hate what I found when dealing with the grading companies. A standard and a plan to restore coin Collecting for the future.
Good Morning Daniel!🍵 That was fascinating instruction!! Cleaning coins is robbery in my opinion. We may think we own our coins and can do what we wish with them. But they are public domain legal tender which outlive us, meant to move on to others!
I wonder if some of the examples you show of cleaned coins -- the not so obvious examples of cleaned coins, in particular -- aren't cleaned. Rather, I wonder if they're slightly circulated, or have been carelessly handled, which would account for this missing luster. "Cleaned" suggests an affirmative action on the part of the handler. Thus, I wonder if the simple mishandling of a coin can incorrectly be interpreted as cleaning. As a child in the early 1960s, I recall commercial coin companies, selling rare coins, putting those coins in those small brown envelopes for storage. I would walk into a store and see coins resting on top of the envelopes in display cases. Surely all that handling back then could account for lost luster. Those coins weren't clean, they were simply handled over the decades before sophisticated storage techniques were invented.
Coin wearing methods are finite but there’s an infinite amount of ways a coin can be altered or cleaned. Wear does not reflect light the same as a cleaned coin.
In the early 1960's and before cleaning wasn't considered damage as much as now. A coin darkened by handling would often be dipped to lighten it up. So, by today's standards it would be twice damaged. Once from skin oils and acids and a second time by the cleaning.
Cleaning a coin harshly has always been a negative to serious collectors. In have auction catalogues back to 1877 that felt it notable to describe coins as rubbed or banged up.
Maybe I am wrong,,, But normal wear would make the same condition on the surface. Not talking about polished or "Wizzed" coins but the coins with a worn surface with little or no reflections.
Mr.D! I really appreciate this video. Victim Newbie here I Purchased a bunch of coins from a local comic book shop and when graded they all came back cleaned. 🤦🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
So can they restore old coins... say an 1883 one cent that is black. Pcgs has options to restore, but would that be a candidate? And would it be worth it? I'm trying to sell several collections i inherited, but i don't want to overcharge like you talk about. I'm also hesitant to get rid of state/amthebeaut ones that are not UNC but beautiful detail
What a great video Daniel ! Thanks to Bill for the information too. Yea, this is one area I struggle in. It just takes practice and like you mentioned, getting some cleaned coins and comparing them to original coins side by side is a way to learn. I was pausing the video at times in order to see the coin before I saw the label. I failed a few times. If dealer can head scratch a bit on telling if a coin is cleaned or not then my sore head says I need to do allot more studying.
Great Community Service! Daniel - This is a Golden Video- You may just save hundreds of buyers from massively overpaying for cleaned/problem coins being sold as high MS+.
I have a 1922 Peace Dollar that appears to have some type of tape residue (yellow in color) on the eagle side of the coin. Would it be ok to gently rub it with warm/ hot water?
What if those peaks and valleys are filled. I imagine it would be much more difficult to determine. Lot of coins are not blast white I guess is what I'm saying.
Don't Buy Another Coin Until You Watch This! Cleaned Coins Everywhere!
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Victim here. I have purchased way to many cleaned coins. Especially for those starting out, buy only coins graded by the reputable grading companies and as Daniel always says, "DO YOUR HOMEWORK"!
You are not a victim if you like the coin! Why did you buy the coin? Because off someone's else's opinion.
Cleaning a coin doesn't make it worthless. It makes it worth less.
So don't buy cleaned coins unless you know it's cleaned and you pay like it's cleaned
I do buy coins that are cleaned. I do not pay like they are original. A person just needs to know the difference and how that may affect your resale. Being a man of limited means, also I may not necessarily afford the uncleaned coins. It also depends on the level cleaning. The more harshly cleaned or multiple cleanings the more altered the result. It also depends upon your taste, if you can't deal with knowing your coin has been cleaned, well collect what you like, please do. Also if you have a coin and it has been stored in a PVC environment, please know in my opinion it is best to bite the bullet and get that stuff off your coin as a PVC damaged coin is going to become more valueless than a cleaned coin. In general a properly cleaned coin may take a one time damage hit where leaving PVC oils on your coin will cause the coin to continue to irreversibly decline.
@@mikecrooks8085 I also sometimes buy a cleaned one, especially if it is a historical coin that I want for its history instead of quality. Also, properly removing PVC using acetone leaves no marks and is great to "clean" a coin without having it marked as cleaned
Thanks to people like you and Bill for going the extra mile to educate collectors. I have purchased a few cull and cleaned coins over the years from people who were upfront about it, because they were affordable versions of coins I would not otherwise have been able to add to my collection, as it is a collection for my pleasure and not just an investment.
Always remember that when that time comes to sell there are plenty of people out there like us that will still buy and enjoy the cleaned coin just that it now becomes part of the grade. I have seen how grading has evolved over the years and I bet that in the future coins will be rated as uncleaned, or cleaned, and then the cleaning itself will be rated from lightly done to harshly with everything in between.
Cleaned coins definetly look different
Thanks Daniel! This video was very informative and pertinent for me. I just received an 1888 S back from grading . Your video takes the mystery out of why it was unc details and not ms64. Greatly appreciated!
Outstanding demonstrations! I always love the way you help us learn! Have a great day Sir Daniel!
Sorry guys, this is another reason I do not collect coins. Between cleaning and fakes, it seems way to easy to be burned.
IMO… been collecting coins since the 80’s, prior to that my father and grandfather collected, and I inherited their collection. All of us had access to newer coins because we are/were bankers. Personally, I have no problem with a cleaned coin so long as the cleaning process did not wear out or ruin the metal itself, and any credible dealer will know immediately if it did after magnifying it…
Coinhelpu stands for coin university. Thanks for the free info Daniel
You are correct that people crack them out and sell them! Look at the mirrors! We know better but can be fooled. Thank you for sharing
Great info and I agree 100% I find it sad that so many nice coin were damaged from over cleaning and polishing, 2 that cleaned coins lose so much value.
I like the fact ANACS still puts the grade a cleaned coin would have gotten if unaltered, I think more of the top tier grading company's need to be in the restoring end of coins then just grading, way less coins would be damaged if people knew to send them in and they that would restore them then give a grade if done right, I've seen holed coin fixed so well you could not till it had ever been holed but PCGS would never give a hard case and details let a lone a straight grade on a well done restore, it makes people not care about less then perfect coins I E coin rings destroying low grade coin.
But thats my thoughts, thank you for sharing God bless.
Thanks Daniel, great information, I Definitely have purchased raw clean coins in the past. I have trouble with identifying cleaned coins.
I will buy them cleaned if the price is correct. For instance, I knowingly bought a cleaned 1879-S Morgan this past week that had Liberty obviously touched up (harsh/improper dip). I still got it because the coin had nice, natural reflective fields and a spectacular reverse that WEREN'T cleaned. Some idiot had obviously shined up Liberty to get a couple extra bucks with a "nicer" picture on Ebay. My local dealer sold it to me for $39. I hope he bought it from the guy who tried to clean it.
It is tough at times to not buy a cleaned coin. Sometimes lighting in a coin shop is not great. I do get a refund if I return the coin. I have a much better set-up at home to look at a coin better.
Great video!! It's valuable info!
Most of my cleaned coins are XF- AU. They have an unnatural shine with little to no luster. It can be difficult to ID a cleaned coin on an ebay picture.
Well ?? If it hasn't been in a holder for last hundred years... How can anyone expect a perfect finish still ? Wether its cleaned a bit or used a bit.. wouldn't that equate the same ? Now what if its used a lot, half worn off... vs a nice cleaned coin, same date ? Would we rather have a half worn F cond 1909 S VDB Wheat Cent or a great looking BU cond thats cleaned example ? I find it hard to believe that collecting coins that were in circulation and put thru all kinds of abuse comes with a taboo to avoid clean coins. A cleaned coin is better by far than 90% of all other coins worn and dull. To display and view. Too much emphasis placed on this cleaning thing. Unless its placing value on a MS 67+ etc. vs one cleaned. But should end there. My view !
I stopped buying raw numismatic coins years ago, period end of story. Out of every 5 raw coins I used to buy, 4 of them ended up being problem coins or highly suspect. Flat, missing toning is not always apparent in photos, but as soon as I have them in hand, I know it's dead. There's usually a REASON those coins are not in slabs, and it's not grading fees! TPG may get the grades off by a point or two, but I'm always confident that when they give a numerical grade, the coin has not been doctored or compromised.
Excellent my man!!!!! Daniel, you always have a way of getting to questions I have, I wrote a dealer yesterday and asked, This is a graded coin, AU-58 "Details" Is it an AU coin or not? He responded actually "It was" at one time. WOW!!! Thank you so much Daniel!!!!!!!!!!!
10:40 I think you mean they add "MONSTER MIRRORS, CAMEO WWOOOOOOWW, PQ PQ PQ PQ!!!!!"
I have a few straight graded PCGS coins that I'm certain were cleaned. I noticed others at a local coin show I went to on January 8th that appeared obviously cleaned. One thing I noticed is they had something in common - all were in generation 4.6 holders. Might just be a coincidence but that was the pattern I observed.
Such a wonderfully informative video. Thanks Daniel.
I would add one unfortunate fact that ruined half a dozen mint-state 1921 Morgans (including one D and one S) that I had purchased uncased when I first started collecting. Potato chip oil on my fingers had ruined whatever the 1921's used to finish the surface. I'd handled a few other coins that didn't take it well, either, including a nice burnished Silver Eagle. I still remember watching a similar finish dissolve like a wave on the reverse on a 2014 uncirculated Denver silver Kennedy from the collector set. My chubby thumbs must have touched part of the field. I'd only held these along the rim.
If anyone reading this is new to the hobby, don't make my mistake - DO NOT pick up coins unless you have gloves, or at least have washed your hands and have accepted any consequences that could result from ungloved handling. You may end up accidentally cleaning perfectly fine coins as a result.
I say buy what you appeals to you. I buy cleaned coins, I just make sure I pay the fair price for them. Happy hunting everyone!
My thing is that there other dealers out there posting videos of buying PCGS and NGC graded coins that are labeled as “cleaned” or “altered” or whatever and cracking the coin out and sending it off to the opposing grading company and getting straight grades. It’s unfair to the end client that those coins that were once labeled as cleaned just got put into a different holder and labeled as problem free. That’s just why that grading companies are FARRRR from the authority on “details” coins or even coin grading. Gotta just buy from reputable dealers
And buy what you like, people putting too much emphasis on those labels.
my experience is the more you look at the more experience you have, keep looking we'll get it eventually
I hate the anti-cleaning rhetoric. Cleaning to remove contaminants is absolutely necessary for good preservation. In some cases (ancients from hoards), cleaning is necessary to uncover original details. Cleaning is important. What you're talking about is physically removing a part of the coin for aesthetic reasons, which is neither cleaning nor conservation. Aesthetics are a matter of taste. Even though the current fashion is unaltered coins, many collectors prefer bright white with nicks and scratches removed.
Awesome video and the illustrations were really helpful to explain on the super detailed level what’s going on with the light
you know i recently picked up a semi key date morgan and almost 200% positive now that its been cleaned at some point and time thank you for the awesome informational video's
you make good points to not buy raw coins. whenever I look at raw coins, they for the most part scream problems. glad I don't buy them.
Thank you Coin Master Daniel, seems if we had that scope we could see the groves, do you have that scope it would be cool to actually see it, can Mr. Cherry Picker lend it to you? oh can you ask him how to get his book I can not find it anywhere.
Looking at Ebay lots, I see a bunch, of cleaned and whizzed coins. Morgan $'s the worst. There has been a HUGE increase in the # of cleaned from what I seen in the past. The reason being: $. Take a MS 55 or 58, polish or clean it, looks more like a 63 now. There can be a huge difference in value. Take a 92s Morgan for example. Compare MS 55 to 63. Unless you are very knowledgeable, only buy valuable high grade coins, which have been authenticated & graded. This includes buying at shows. There are crooks in this hobby, as well as honest, who do not know how to grade.
I am selling our coins and have discovered a lot of them are cleaned. They are graded and being sold as such for a deep discount. I guess back in the day it was ok to clean coins?
It was once considered proper to clean coins especially if handling had left "finger prints". Justified as preventing further damage from oils and acids deposited by handling. Guides for museums recommended a regular cleaning schedule also to remove atmospheric deposits. Not all cleaning should be considered to be intended to fool a buyer into thinking they're getting a better coin. It was often done with good intentions.
I don't know what people have against cleaned coins. I actually prefer them.
Daniel you are the best and the sad part is there is no perfect science to this and sometimes borderline coins or even different years are graded differently. My favorite total BS graded coins are the shipwreck coins. If you or I found a shipwreck coin in the water our coin would be graded environmental damage or harshly cleaned if we cleaned off the coral from the coin. But nooooo if you have a famous name or are in kohoots with the big grading company to make some money you can harshly clean your ship wreck coins and get straight grades from the grading companies.
I have way too many cleaned coins, mostly Morgan’s, that I bought we I was first getting into silver dollars. An expensive lesson.
The only thing I would argue is that the altered color or questionable color coins are not always the case.The graders are only human and it's a judgment call.I have submitted Lincoln cents straight out of mint sets and have gotten straight grades and details grades.
Just bought a Morgan silver dollar last week got it in yesterday as I looked at it I thought to myself something wrong here I think it’s being cleaned!
Already with grade. Authenticity unquestionable
Excellent video, thanks again for educating the collectors!
"Walking up and down in the valleys and hills." That's a great analogy!
I know I have, but I knew when I bought them and paid appropriately
These several coins were encapsulated “UNC details genuine” “whizzed” “cleaned”.
What is the difference between these coins and that are returned in “body bags”?
Usually body bags are due to inability to determine circulation wear. Whizzing is mechanical alteration and cleaning refers to chemical. Beyond a certain point cleaning or whizzing will become enough to be "unable to assign a grade".
Thank You Daniel !
Difficult stuff, but if you don't see it by now, just watch the video again!
Thanks for the explanation, again!
It is tough on some of those coins.Thankyou Daniel.😊
Sorry for the third post in a row. I should join your forum! I understood the peaks and valleys concept but didn't understand what to look for in your demonstration. The 1882 looked cleaned by the mushy texture of the year and the stars but I couldn't see what you meant as to its lack of peaks and valleys - maybe I should buy a few BU coins at silver cost from my LCS and do some of the sneaker methods myself, just to have examples.
Thank you Daniel, I'm getting a little bit better understanding of what to look for in a cleaned coin.
Appreciate your videos. From Ohio as well although the mid western side.
Fantastic explanation! Thanks for sharing this!
Thank you for helping me understand.
this video is really helpful, the drawings help it make sense.
Just help me out a lot because there’s ones that I know I have that are clean and they pass off as problem free.
Thanks for sharing Daniel, I have collected coins for years and I have cleaned coins, due to my ignorance when I started. I have lost a lot of money from this do to the seller calling them au, Ms coins. I have a coin shop in my area, that dips most of their coins and puts them in a coin holder reading a grade and the price is higher. This is a huge problem and the average collector, not a stacker gets burned. I will not buy a shiny coin unless it's been slabbed and graded by a reputable grading company. The prices are too high to loose money.
You know Daniel, It's also a huge honor to have a teacher such as yourself, you know what your talking about and your an honest man!!!!!!!!!!! It would be just as much of an honor to get to have a conversation with you, AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you for another great video. I've learned so much watching them.
Again, a good informative video! Thanks!
It took me awhile to get away from purchasing 'cleaned coins'. I like the look of beautiful coins, cleaned or not. That's just me though. I collect for the history of the coin. When you scope any coin, you are going to see things you don't want to. I do it to see the dates. All mine are raw, used, circulated, decent shape, no culls. I get what you are saying for sure Daniel. I'm going to start calling you Professor Daniel, because you are always teaching me something everyday. Thanks.
This video is a "graduates-level coarse" in numismatic info.
great video and great information again, thank you. I also just watched a us mint video on actual making of the dies and it is eye opening also.
I have a question for you.. I have a 2011 walking liberty silver dollar. Looking at the front of the coin. She is looking at you but if you flip it over the eagle is up side down. Plus the word liberty has doubling in it. Is this an error coin.
A question about slabs I have a NGC slab that on the back the prongs are damaged fairly large chips missing does this happen
Maybe it’s me but I don’t care to have cleaned coins. It’s nice to buy UNC details slabbed coins. To an extent. I avoid the obvious cleaned coins. You can buy these coins for a fraction of the price and they in my opinion look the same. 10:16 is a good example of what I’m saying.
Easy to check the box and pay the $18 for every coin. As well every coin a image at graders
Daniel, thank you and Bill for educating us on cleaned coins not having peaks and valleys on the reflective quality. Whenever the subject of cleaned coins comes about I am always thinking of a Seller to me on Ebay that got ripped off by an Ebay Seller. This illustrates the importance of what you are saying in this video.
The Seller to me of the coin bought a 1892 Columbian Expo Commemorative Half Dollar Coin on Ebay sold to him as a 1892 Columbian Commemorative Half Dollar "BU." He was not able to see that it was cleaned from the pictures. I don't know how much he paid, I am guessing $25-$35 dollars. He then gets the coin and sends it to NGC to get it graded, so at the time that is another $25, so he is into the coin for $50-$65. Then he receives the 1892 back from NGC and they grade it as "Improperly Cleaned" UNC Details. He doesn't want it now and puts it for sale on Ebay for the date Columbus sailed $14.92 plus $5.00 shipping. I just wanted an example of that coin, bid on it, and was the only bid. The Seller lost over $35.00.
Great vid
Will cleaned coins still get melt price from a shop? Does it only destroy numismatic value? How much should I take off listed price for a cleaned coin?
People collect cleaned coins and pay almost the same price. Only expensive high grade does it matter.coins always sell for more than melt unless thay are damaged.
Excellent info. Thanks.
wicked video! Another good reason not to pay graded prices AU-58 or higher for a 'raw' coin (ungraded). Right off the top you are at the seller's mercy if they graded the coin correctly and it could be cleaned to top it off!
If a coine is dirty you clean it. All most all coins have been cleaned. No problem, expect that. If you only collect unclean coins you won't collect much.
I like the finds Collecting. I hate what I found when dealing with the grading companies. A standard and a plan to restore coin Collecting for the future.
Thank you for explaining this with visual examples.
New vocabulary word! In use! ❤
Hello Daniel
Good Morning Daniel!🍵 That was fascinating instruction!! Cleaning coins is robbery in my opinion. We may think we own our coins and can do what we wish with them. But they are public domain legal tender which outlive us, meant to move on to others!
Hello from the great state of Michigan
I wonder if some of the examples you show of cleaned coins -- the not so obvious examples of cleaned coins, in particular -- aren't cleaned. Rather, I wonder if they're slightly circulated, or have been carelessly handled, which would account for this missing luster. "Cleaned" suggests an affirmative action on the part of the handler. Thus, I wonder if the simple mishandling of a coin can incorrectly be interpreted as cleaning. As a child in the early 1960s, I recall commercial coin companies, selling rare coins, putting those coins in those small brown envelopes for storage. I would walk into a store and see coins resting on top of the envelopes in display cases. Surely all that handling back then could account for lost luster. Those coins weren't clean, they were simply handled over the decades before sophisticated storage techniques were invented.
Coin wearing methods are finite but there’s an infinite amount of ways a coin can be altered or cleaned. Wear does not reflect light the same as a cleaned coin.
In the early 1960's and before cleaning wasn't considered damage as much as now. A coin darkened by handling would often be dipped to lighten it up. So, by today's standards it would be twice damaged. Once from skin oils and acids and a second time by the cleaning.
Cleaning a coin harshly has always been a negative to serious collectors. In have auction catalogues back to 1877 that felt it notable to describe coins as rubbed or banged up.
The illustration of peaks and valleys is super helpful.
Big auction Saturday January 28th 10am troy ohio hope ur dad or you can come..check it out🙂👍
We don't go to auctions but thanks. You can over spend on coins doing that.
I remember your past video on cleaned coins and this video helps even more.
Thanks for sharing. 👍
DAN THE MAN.
Great video - very informative!
I bought an "AU 58" 1925 Stone Mountain Half Dollar in a paper holder. I sent it in to grade it....came back UNC details, cleaned spots.
I notice a lot of dealers sell cleaned unc coins they just advertise them as AU or XF+
Maybe I am wrong,,, But normal wear would make the same condition on the surface. Not talking about polished or "Wizzed" coins but the coins with a worn surface with little or no reflections.
Normal wear does not create the same surfaces. I guess I need to do another video.
Thank you for the treasure trove of info
Thank you for sharing
Thank you Daniel
Mr.D! I really appreciate this video. Victim Newbie here I Purchased a bunch of coins from a local comic book shop and when graded they all came back cleaned. 🤦🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
So can they restore old coins... say an 1883 one cent that is black. Pcgs has options to restore, but would that be a candidate? And would it be worth it?
I'm trying to sell several collections i inherited, but i don't want to overcharge like you talk about. I'm also hesitant to get rid of state/amthebeaut ones that are not UNC but beautiful detail
What a great video Daniel ! Thanks to Bill for the information too. Yea, this is one area I struggle in. It just takes practice and like you mentioned, getting some cleaned coins and comparing them to original coins side by side is a way to learn. I was pausing the video at times in order to see the coin before I saw the label. I failed a few times. If dealer can head scratch a bit on telling if a coin is cleaned or not then my sore head says I need to do allot more studying.
Great Community Service! Daniel - This is a Golden Video- You may just save hundreds of buyers from massively overpaying for cleaned/problem coins being sold as high MS+.
As always, thank you for the education
Thank you very eye opening...new to yr channel and a novice in collecting coins.
I will come to Ironton or wherever it is in Ohio. You can view them then give me a idea on what to do.
I don’t offer that service. You can post coins in the community and ask for help. I just buy, sell and appraise coin collections at my shop.
It Really is a Science 👍🔬
Are you saying a cleaned coin is worthless or would it just drop down one step in grade? Is a cleaned XF worth a FINE?
I am not saying any of that. I am teaching what a cleaned coin looks like. I have videos on values just search my channel.
@@CoinHELPu thank you. I'm building a low value dansco 7070 type set and cleaned never bothered me. Love your channel
I have a 1922 Peace Dollar that appears to have some type of tape residue (yellow in color) on the eagle side of the coin. Would it be ok to gently rub it with warm/ hot water?
Thanks
What if those peaks and valleys are filled. I imagine it would be much more difficult to determine. Lot of coins are not blast white I guess is what I'm saying.
Toning is like cloud cover over the peaks and valleys, it doesn’t fill them in. Also natural toning couldn’t be a cleaned coin.