Composer Reacts to Refused - Tannhäuser / Derivè (REACTION & ANALYSIS)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- Bryan reacts to and talks about his thoughts on Tannhäuser / Derivè
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this album is iconic as far as im concerned
you are absolutely right
yup
Hey, it's my request. Glad to see that you enjoyed it so much! Thought you might like how much they play with contrast and dynamics.
To answer your question on how well know Refused are, at the time they were fairly well known in Sweden for a punk band with even some local TV appearances, but were virtually unheard of outside of the country. During their American tours they would play tiny venues with like six people in the audience. They split up mid-tour in 1998 very shortly after the release of this album, put up a statement vowing to never play together again, and that was that. But in the years following their break up, the album started to make waves and became hugely influential, in many ways living up to its title, and by the time Refused reformed for some live shows in 2012 they were popular enough to headline the Coachella festival (which had a much better reputation 10 years ago than it does today too). Especially interesting given that all that popularity built up while the band was defunct and all the members were actively trying to move on from it and leave it behind.
One aspect of the album is that it was a response to what Refused felt was a rise in stagnation and conformity to norms within the punk genre, and it serves as a rejection of the idea that punk is supposed to sound a certain way and can't evolve. You rightly mentioned the strong folk music elements in this song, and elsewhere on the album they flirt with many other genres too, like jazz, techno and electronic. At least to me it's a very sophisticated album, both musically and lyrically (and conceptually even), which again kind of goes against the typical stereotypes of punk.
Thanks for the great video as usual! It was a pleasure to hear your analysis.
Excellent comment! That's wild that their popularity grew so much while they were disbanded. And yeah, their refusal to adhere to conformity of genre norms was certainly on display here :)
I highly recommend the documentary made about their final tour in the US and subsequent break up. It’s called Refused are Fucking Dead.
I have listened to prog-rock all my life, I was so so lucky to know about this album, and have it when it came out. In my honest opinion the best prog-rock album of the 90s, and the most unknown treasure in music.
hey! here a long time later to assure you that they reached all the way to New Zealand and helped my teenage years heaps :)
in early 2000s
Love Refused! From the same city in Sweden as Meshuggah and Cult of Luna.
Thank you to whoever requested this track. The whole album is a masterpiece secret gem.
If I had to make a list of 10 "must have" (for myself) albums from the 90's...This album would definitely be one of them, as would At The Drive In's album, "Relationship of Command".
I saw Refused live 15 times between 1994 and ’98. They were huge in the international underground hardcore scene.
This is the first album where they branched out and did all kind of styles though.
Do a full album reaction!
This album literally shaped my music tastes to this day, they purposely shattered genres to break the stigma of what punk was thought of,everything from adding jazz elements and wearing suits on stage.
This song is a masterpiece in an album of masterpieces
I came across this album in 1999 through the New Noise music video. This was when cable TV providers were starting to expand typical service from 50-60 channels to 150-200 channels. In doing so, they needed to new cable networks to fill those channels. This added a few new short-lived music video channels that had a very limited amount of music licensed to them, so you’d see the same 8-10 videos 24/7 on each channel. I believe this particular channel was called “X” or “Rock-X” or something like that. I specifically remember New Noise, Space Lord by Monster Magnet, and Certain Shade of Green by Incubus in constant rotation. Refused was on Bleeding Heart records, which had some traction in the punk scene with bands like Millencolin, Home Grown, and The Hives, though their exposure to a larger audience didn’t really come until New Noise was featured on the video game soundtrack for Tony Hawk’s Underground in 2003. The Shape of Punk to Come was this incredible one-off that was sadly relegated to relative obscurity during its time, but I believe it strongly influenced a good amount of the post-punk/metal/hardcore acts that would emerge in the later half of the 2000’s first decade. It’s also worth noting the blurred lines between punk, metal, and hardcore that existed from roughly 1985 to the early 2000’s that gets somewhat obscured by the more accessible and less interchangeable bands of each genre. At the time, Refused could probably be most closely associated with post-hardcore, but they were also clearly outside of the typical bands of that genre, and the punk and metal aspects of their style were much more pronounced on their previous albums. By treading into this type of progressive rock style and bringing their roots in punk, metal, and hardcore, it was tough to align them with any other genre of the time. It was fun watching someone get newly acquainted with them. This album still stands on its own ground for me. Can’t think of any other that it closely resembles.
Ok
You don't see a lot of people reacting to this kind of stuff. Props my dude. Randomly stumbled upon this band a decade ago or so. Blew my mind with this album. The story behind the album is just as weird as the album itself. It lacks context and everything... These guys broke up at a show where they were playing in front of 100 college students in a basement, in Virginia. They considered their project a failure. Whilst they were split, their album blew up over time. They got back together in 2012 and headlined Coachella when they got back together for their first show in front of 100,000 people. Being greatly respected by bands/icons they likely only dreamed of meeting back in their day. Their album prior (Songs to fan the Flame of Discontent) is worth a listen as well.
That's wild. It's like a lucky shortcut to doing all the work of touring, promoting, and making multiple albums 😂
Love this album. Probably my favorite punk album. Nice selection!
This album is probably as influential to modern heavy metal and rock as Angel Dust by Faith No More was to the Nu Metal and Rock scene of the late 90's/early 2000's. This album broke Refused and they split up during the promotional tour. But yes, I think for heavy prog-ish metal, this album, Colors by BTBAM and the afore mentioned Angel Dust are the three most important albums for the modern day landscape.
The violin part was improvised by the session player, Torbjörn Näsbom.
Oh, wow! This is from one of the best Swedish albums of the 20th century.
I saw they were still making music too. This is a band I'll be diving into soon. This song really sold me on 'em.
I have listened to - and really liked - Refused and even this album but I have no legitimate defense to explain why I didn't come back to them for all too long. Absolutely fantastic and the analasys/exploration of it made one of my peak experiences from reactors. Happy to know that you're into checking them out more Bryan. Curious about what you'll like from them since they have done a lot pretty far from this... (more punkish and other directions)
@@CriticalReactions This album is a total masterpiece with amazing engineering, really creative drums, fat bass, and amazing riffs featuring uncharacteristicly heavy usage of wah pedal in hardcore music and even a jazz number. This song ends the album and the band broke up afterwards so your ananysis seems pretty spot on.
Here's the singer talking about the album and how it was poorly recieved in the scene at the time: "We did Shape of Punk to Come in many ways as a protest against what we felt like was a conservative idea of what punk and hardcore should be." Hardcore was a super niche scene with a locked in fashion and musical style that Refused was way too creative to get stuck in. th-cam.com/video/m8qKnn1bM2c/w-d-xo.html
Refused got back together and have lots of high-quality live footage now, have made new albums since, and even wrote and performed the music for the video game Cyberpunk in 2019.
I know of this album because of its reputation--it was hugely influential on the hardcore/post-hardcore genre of the 00s--but I've never actually heard it. This definitely has me very interested in hearing the entire thing. Very intriguing combination of punk's rawness and aggression with prog's ambitiousness. I've often found that when punk-influenced bands try to get ambitious it often just comes across as sloppy, as if their reach exceeds their grasp... but I don't get that sense here. As ambitious as it is it also manages to rock out as well. Love all the contrasting sections and how it navigates through them as it really comes off as a coherent work. Really good stuff. It's worth noting that the album title is a reference to the famous Ornette Coleman album The Shape of Jazz to Come. Also love that the album's subtitle is: "A Chimerical Bombination in 12 Bursts." LOL
In the transition you referred to, the one you weren’t that fond of, the guitar is borrowing from Stravinsky’s Right of Spring. 🙂
I'm sure it has already been said two years after, but the resolution occurs in the next track. Just genius fucking art.
Love that you mention there’s no real resolution because shocker, it rolls right into the next track
this album was so epic the band stopped making music for about 18 years after release and still stayed one of those white whale bands you would travel across the country to catch a basement show.
Been looking forward to Refused appearing on this channel. Long time fan and I like the newer releases too.
In the middle break, it sounds like slow scraping of the pick along a low string on the guitar or bass.
Yoooo do glassjaw at some point. Love all your work though. It's nice to revistit old tracks and then hear them analyzed.
Rites of Spring reference @ 6:12
This is one of my favorite tracks from an album I have played out for years. The build up is incredible with an emotional crescendo of screams of "disorientated by life - boredom won't get me tonight." I always found it to be such a beautiful fight song.
Refused came from the Straight Edge Hardcore Scene, other notable bands apart from Cult Of Luna and Meshuggah to their hometown Umea are Shield and Abhinanda. A lot of the Metalcore of the end 1990s like Poison The Well were influenced by the Straight Edge Scene with bands like Chokehold, Strain, Undertow, Earth Crisis or Unbroken.
Its funny that the straight edge kids got the most tatted of em all. And that stuff cause cancer and not a little.
What should have been a widely arrogant album title ended up just being the truth tbh, especially post-hardcore and metalcore. Particularly in the 00s and early 10s I reckon you’d be hard pressed to find many bands from those genres that don’t cite refused as a major influence. They’re still around but....let’s just say this album was kinda a freak occurrence within their whole discography.
Honestly given your tastes I’m pretty surprised you hadn’t come across them already before you started this channel lol.
Although, the mainstream metalcore sound was already taking shape elsewhere (Poison the Well’s The Opposite of December was released in 1999 and that was really where mainstream metalcore took off from...while Poison the Well eventually turned to something much more experimental like this album instead of chasing that mainstream sound).
Poison the Well is Trash, metalcore is trash. Refused is not metalcore, and how dare you.
@@delugesofgrandeur .... are you ok?
@@shortdrink873 no.
@@delugesofgrandeurcry about it
The cool thing is i actually know two of these guy on a personal level and i just got into their music recently
Me when I lie on the internet
Deadly Rythm from this album is such a banger.
I'm excited to talk about this...same here..once you learned how big and important this record is, everything will be different
How could it be!? There is no other reaction to this particular "song" !?
This is, in my little opinion, mindblasting!
I have a lot of albums I truly love,, but this one. This one I cherish just a little bit more. This one is defining in such a way as so many others can't be. It is so poetic and so beautiful.
Good morning from New England..Wow Wow and yes Wow!!! Where's this band been....I don't know if I'd call this Punk, this is way spacey and balls to the wall at the same time...That bass tone is the best tone I've heard since JEAN-MICHELL FROM GOJIA..This is just oozing early SABBATH....Dark, trippy and heavy AF!! Great suggestion...Peace from the Northeast..
Refused were just hardcore. Not metalcore or any other derivatives, they played hardcore the root of all those genres. This was an experimental album, but they are still not categorised as any subgenre.
"I've Never heard of Refused." Brian, their first ever reunion set headlined mainstays at Coachella, and their song The New Noise is on MADDEN NFL games, and I've even heard the Sony used in major ads. They're wildly influential and popular. But mostly in the wake of their breakup/the release of this record.
Read up on their history and legacy, its pretty interesting stuff.
Why shit on him for never hearing of them? I've been listening to prog metal for a pretty long time at this point and have never heard of them. It happens.
Edit - which Madden? I must have heard these guys unknowingly, but I don't recall them being on the game, although I very well could be wrong.
No, their first reunion set was a hometown show. th-cam.com/video/CeEtkTYZibM/w-d-xo.html
It's interesting that you drew the comparison to Between the Buried and Me. BTBAM used to cover the Refused song "Rather Be Dead" from their earlier album Songs to Fan the Flames of Discontent. th-cam.com/video/6aKBBCSnYFg/w-d-xo.html To be clear, this is very early BTBAM, before Dan, Blake, and Dusty had joined the band.
Refused and this album in particular 👌is absolutely legendary.... Nothing touches this album within this style ✍️
Haha...i broke the speakers in my car with this album back then. They were beloved in germany at least in my circles. :D
This album is historic and belongs in a hall of fame somewhere.
i think they'd be pretty easy to find nowadays, or at least seemed pretty popular when looking for punk/crust or grind stuff around 2010.
If you do more hardcore bands, check out time waits by trapped under ice. Sick rhythm.
I was an 90's punk in AZ and I loved the Refused, but the music scene was insane back then.
I think the genre many place them in is Straight Edge Hardcore? Or Umeå Hardcore? Or Post Hardcore? Or Hardcore? Also i belive they influenced alot of bands out side of sweden even tho they were considered "underground". Great review! :)
1998...? IF they released this today they'd be huge!! Great engineering too!!!
Exactly. it blew my mind to find out this was released so long ago.
Absolutely amazing album that lived up to its title.
Great choice. Unreal album.
Breach!!!
Great review 👌🤏
please more Refused :)
23:17 band name doesn't agree with you?
I really love this album but unfortunately I can't really get into their other albums. Shame tbh.