Maelstrom Isn't as Good As You Remember
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 มิ.ย. 2021
- Okay, so time for a controversial opinion. I think that the former attraction in Epcot’s Norway pavilion, Maelstrom, isn’t as good as everyone remembers it being. In fact, I’d say that Frozen Ever After is the better attraction.
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I love those weird oil rigs. You can’t change my mind. Keep EPCOT weird.
It's bizarre nature was certainly part of the charm.
YES!!! And we almost got a Tesla Coil for lightning in that scene!😱
Same here.
THANK YOU. I loved weird EPCOT. Now it's just Disney World part 2.
Nailed it. There should be a frozen attraction. It’s insanely popular. But it belongs at the MK.
The building that houses Mickey's PhilharMagic would have been a great fit. I think that show is long overdue to leave, and a small dark ride themed to Frozen would have worked really well there.
@@PoseidonEntertainment or even use the Disney Princesses Meet and greet building that replaced snow white's adventure.
@@annieskywalker9290 The track is reportedly still under the floor.
Yup
@@PoseidonEntertainment no
Maelstrom's fixation with oil platforms makes sense when you consider the era of its construction: the 1980s were a time of terrible energy insecurity, and the North Atlantic oil fields were a Big Deal. "Oil independence" was VERY EXCITING to anyone who lived through the 1970s oil shortages.
In fact, prior to the discovery of oil in Norway, there's no way they could have afforded sponsorship of an Epcot pavilion.
Interesting context! Thank you
I agree that if Frozen were in the Magic Kingdom, it would be viewed more positively. The main reason I'm not a fan of the ride is just that it's in Epcot, and essentially turns the Norway pavilion into the "Arendelle in all but name" pavilion. Also, Frozen breaks down constantly- last time I was in line for it, it broke down at least 15-20 times in the 2-3 hour wait. In fact, when I finally got on, our boat was the first one to make it through the ride completely without a breakdown, power-down and evacuation. It was ridiculous that every boat before us for 2-3 hours didn't get the full experience. I have no idea what causes so many breakdowns, but I remember Maelstrom never had this issue. I'd take back Maelstrom in a heartbeat if given the chance. Frozen would fit much better in the Magic Kingdom- with the amount of land around the park, I'm sure you could weasel it in somewhere towards the back edge of Fantasyland, maybe between Little Mermaid and the circus area.
Now that you point it out, you've made me realize that it does consistently go down pretty often. It seems odd that this is the case, considering how little modifications were made to the actual track and ride system.
@@PoseidonEntertainment Yeah. My guess would be the animatronics, but I really doubt an animatronic malfunction warrants an entire attraction being closed down- the Three Caballeros ride never closed even when all 3 of its animatronics were down! There must be some reason, as they wouldn't fake a breakdown, but I have no clue what it could be.
@@charliemacsart I'll admit that I have almost no insight into what would cause an attraction to go down as far as show effects go, but many of the Epcot attractions are kept operable but still in a state of disrepair. I went about a month ago and found chunks of the EAC projections in Nemo out, and whatever issue the jungle scene in Living with the Land is having hasn't been fixed in over a year now I believe?
I'm inclined to think that the reason Frozen goes down so much likely has something to do with the lift or the switch tracks. It seems they spent money on the overlay, but not much on maintaining the actual ride system. It's far more rickety than I would expect a premier attraction to be.
I felt that Maelstrom could of been updated over time with a better pre-ride que and a much more cohesive ride narrative. Also your channel is incredibly underrated. As it made me take theme parks more seriously.
Thanks, I appreciate that! I've always perceived theme parks as forms of art that transcend their entertainment value and I'm glad that other people can do the same
Same
Agreed. But two points I challenge - 1. The downfall of EPCOT Center began in 1999 when Imagination was, er, re-imagined? and Horizons was demolished to make way for the Space Spinner Vomitron of Death. Maelstrom wasn't changed until 2014. 2. There is room at MK for a Frozen attraction, at least there was before 2014, when Seven Dwarves Mine Train opened. Disney chose...poorly...
I thought about your first point, but I've concluded that the downfall of Epcot really does start with Frozen though. While the new iterations of Imagination and Mission: Space don't really live up to their predecessors, at the very least they were unique ideas, even if not executed well. I actually quite like Mission: Space, especially when it got its refurb, but I think it's not very popular due to its intensity.
Also I agree with your second point as well. Mine Train is really a waste of space. I was thinking about doing a video breaking down why it's just so ridiculously bland and poorly themed.
@@PoseidonEntertainment I’d watch that
@@PoseidonEntertainment I see your point about M:S and Imagination - there's no IP hastily thrown onto the existing attractions and in the case of Horizons, a new creative endeavor produced what some people believe is a decent thrilling attraction. I don't ride it but that's personal preference.
In the case of Frozen, I won't ride it simply because I refuse to acknowledge it even exists. Yes, I'll happily stick my head in the sand. I have great memories of Maelstrom, so why tarnish them? But again, that's personal preference. I acknowledge that the attraction is technically more sophisticated and makes good use of the existing show building, leveraging the space to good advantage.
But just imagine what a Frozen attraction could have been from the ground up...Gringott's style vehicles as runaway sleighs, zooming through an icy winterscape, with Sven and Olaf clumsily trying to save you until Elsa appears to guide you to safety with blasts of ice. Sure, Arundell tour-goes-wrong plot isn't the best, but the effects could be spectacular and it could hit all the right notes from the films.
Mission Space is awesome, you're just a big 🐈
As a kid, I can tell you it made sense to me. In fact--it made a very deep impression on me on terms of storytelling style. But thats because the old version had one extra element the new ones rarely had (and it isn't the waves).
The plain green queue seems initially odd for a color. After all, when they could easily make it themed like El Rio del Tiempo....why wouldn't they?
It's because the color and style are reminiscent of the bindings of a school history textbook. Further, the go-away green has an isolating effect. You arent as immersed in Disney rockers and other "theming." It inspires reflection, kind of like a museum piece. Combined with the bromine of the water...and it evokes an air of mystery. You're left to your imagination wondering and contemplating the images on the mural. As they are about to come from flat 2D to real and alive.
The transition to the polar bears may seem odd. But remember's Odin's words about finding beauty and charm among daring and adventure. That's the theme here. The trolls and swamp and colorful and captivating. But also dangerous! Similarly, the polar bears are also large and predatory. But also cute in a way--the one on its hind legs almost waving goodbye as you travel backwards.
Now comes the climax. When you hear the falls behind you, you may strain to look behind and see out to the waterfall below. As you turn, the element that hasnt been in a yeard is an element of mist that partially obscured the drop. The spirit hurls you forward, down through space--and time.
With a thunderous crack (a la Back to the Future), you come down surrounded by the wild oil rigs in the sea. They blow some fire, but are almost like shimmering lighthouses giving you safety.
It's like the conclusion of your dream, or fantastic travel through imagination of the 2D world.....landing back to the real world. The lesson of survival...the adventure of life. Reinforced from the opening turn of the village, still a part of Norway here.
The village itself is calm...and looked to be dimmer, set at night. Away from the bright settings of the queue. So it reinforces that time has passed, like getting lost in a daydream. The calmness and tranquility of home is also reinforced (which you see again in the brief village), as a contrast to the wild sea adventure. Part of the land selling point (with the movie) is that it's wild and free spirit is merge with the comforting environment of the land you will visit.
It seems you've just conveyed the tone of the film and placed it over the ride experience. Definitely an interesting take on things.
I LOVE THIS. Thank you for reminding me of the perspective that 12-year-old me forgot. You're spot on
Perfectly stated. Don't forget about once you disembark from the ride, being greeted by real Norwegians in traditional dress, and exhibits on norse history. On a hot Florida summer day, nothing was better than getting in line at Maelstrom.
It was also very cool, temperature wise. That and it's water made Maelstrom such a relief after walking about for hours, half drunk in the heat of the day. Man, it was just what the doctor ordered!!
Frozen Ever After's story is actually not a condensed version of the movie. The intro scene with the trolls is a recap while the rest is Elsa inviting you to the Ice Castle for a Summer Solstice celebration (I think). Pretty sure this is the thought process behind the Splash Mt. retheme as well, it will be some sort of sequel story. Conflicted by the addition of this to Norway and what it means for Epcot, but as a father its a must hit for my daughter. Love your content so far
I have a little armchair Imagineering project I've been working on since Maelstrom closed. Something that I thought would've been a better successor to Maelstrom. It's an attraction called SeaVenture (Maelstrom's original name, only this version would lean heavily into the viking aspect). It would've been a dark ride revolving around a viking exploration that takes guests to different environments where they come across trolls, gnomes, & other mythological creatures from Norse mythology. A Norwegian Pirates of the Caribbean if you will. I think the new Shanghai Pirates ride system would've worked well for it. Of course, the Maelstrom footprint would be way too small for such an exciting E-Ticket but still... always fun to blue sky, I guess.
I think that's a fantastic idea! You're right, in that I agree the building's footprint is too small for something that ambitious, but it's otherwise something I'd highly be interested in seeing.
@@PoseidonEntertainment Furthering on the footprint issue, it's a shame Disney never revisited their Mountain Fuji rollercoaster idea. Mount Everest showed that Disney can still build thrilling rides with great themes that try and highly respect a culture. I get that they're eager to up the ride count and excitement of EPCOT but Frozen just isn't it.
malestrom was possibly my favorite attraction in all of WDW. it instilled a lifelong interest and respect for scandinavian culture, mythology, and history. as a child it would actually offend me that so many people skipped the film at the end. it infuriated me when i heard they were replacing it with frozen, and though admittedly it is a well designed ride, it still stings.
I like how your videos somehow feel more and more controversial each hot take
That said I usually find myself agreeing with your points in most of theses videos. Most of the time I read the title and go “finally someone on TH-cam is pointing this out” as it feels like a lot of the Disney TH-camrs just go along with whatever Disney corporate says about a new attractions and lands.
Because of that I’ve always gone to places like Toy Story Land or Galaxy’s Edge though “why do I feel like something is missing when everyone is saying this is amazing”
I think pandora is the only major WDW expansion I’ve gone to and felt like it lives up to the hype
Glad to see someone else pointing all this out
I'm glad that we agree. I'm getting quite tired of "Disney offered us media passes, so we're going to tell you how great all of this is."
I wish it could have become a Norse mythology ride. And if they really need IP, add Thor and Loki
I would still be opposed, but at least it's somewhat more relevant.
Yes, Maelstrom wasn't perfect. But it was fun and charming, and it was ABOUT NORWAY. I'm not a little girl, so "Frozen" doesn't do much for me. It's not timeless like Snow White or Sleeping Beauty. There's just nothing in it for me. Maelstrom on the other hand, was an attraction for EVERYONE (the whole family, Men, Women, Boys, Girls). This is yet another example of EPCOT, or more specifically, World Showcase, losing it's focus. As someone else commented earlier, Disney just should have updated Maelstrom from time to time, as well as the film to keep the attraction fresh. For myself, and a lot of other people, EPCOT and the rest of WDW is holding less and less interest.
The Maelstrom queue looks like a public library
Now that you say it...
Yeah I very much remember it being pretty much what you’d find in like a history/cultural museum type place. Which tbh kinda tracks perfectly with what, at least in my opinion, Epcot was intended/should be. A high production value quasi museum with the needle skewed more towards fun and entertainment and a bit less cold hard facts.
I never got to ride Maelstrom but I agree, I like when rides are their own thing and not force-attached to some franchise. Just like they’re afraid to make an original movie, I think they’re double afraid to make an original ride again.
Agreed. I think Frozen is a decent film, but it's too watered down to be anything more than a kid's movie. I think of films as recent as The Lion King or Hunchback being kid-friendly, but still packing emotional punches when needed because they understood that it connected with audiences. It seems that newer films under Iger/Chapek are too afraid to let their audience feel anything.
Yup
@@PoseidonEntertainment I think frozen is one of better modren disney film it still very popukar
Something to keep in mind with the oil rigs is that North Sea Oil was a very recent development at the time when the attraction was created (and is why Norway now has one of the largest sovereign wealth funds). It's there to show you the modern technical marvels (because many thought that the oil there was too difficult to exploit) and sets the stage for the achievements in the past as well.
It's still a muddled narrative, but I understand why that oil rig is there. It was a contemporary show of the can-do attitude of the nation.
I’m sort of an Epcot purist. I’ve always enjoyed it for what it was. An educational experience through science and around the world with a permanent “World’s Fair” vibe.
As much as I hate the IP additions, I honestly think they could make Frozen feel more cohesive with the Norway pavilion if they updated it to fit more with Frozen 2's darker vibe. There was actually a scene in a river that feels like it was a direct tribute to the troll scene at the end of Maelstrom. If they leaned more into the mythological aspects and didn't act as if kids can't understand something if it's not pure fluff, I could see it working.
I do agree with all your points and I especially appreciate that you included the film in your breakdown of the attraction. I know many people skip it but I do feel like that's where it all comes together. The attraction is almost designed to be jarring and confusing up until the final moment in the film where it declares "the spirit of Norway, it lives in our people." The entire experience leading up to that point has been a search for an intangible thing across time. It's almost symbolic of any country and culture and an inversion of the Future World pavilions. Whereas the Future World pavilions take a very specific topic and follow it through history, Malestrom meanders trying to figure out what makes Norway, Norway. It really demonstrated how World Showcase was the counterpoint to Future World.
All of your videos always have to heart and care put into every sentence. They are incredible persuasive essays. If I turned in any one of these scripts in as a persuasive essay for school, I would easily get a 100%. Your videos are not like the average Disney fan, who started freaking out and crying when they got off of WEB Slingers: A Spider-Man Adventure. Your videos show the honest and true side of the Walt Disney Company. If there were more people like you in the world, the Disney Parks would be a better place. Thank you for everything you do.
Well thanks, I appreciate your perspective. I didn't realize that the videos could mean so much. I will agree that I find the unconditional Disney praise frustrating. It's not that W.E.B. Slingers is bad... but it's not fit for Disney. It's something that I expect out of a regional park and not the once industry leader that was concerned with always challenging itself to move forward creatively.
@@PoseidonEntertainment They need more WWWD stickers around Imagineering and leadership's offices. WWWD being What Would Walt Do of course :D
I wonder if most of the criticisms about the ride just being a recap of the film are more because of how hyper-watched the film is or due to it being part of the IP oversaturation making it more likely to draw ire and criticism
Probably both, along with it being in the wrong place. I think if located in Fantasyland, the narrative around this would be completely different.
I think you have convinced me that Maelstrom is even better than I remember.
i 100% agree with everything you said in this video. it's sad to see where epcot is going because it's reminding me a lot of california adventure at this point- a unified concept to start even if it lacked (ex california in california vs epcot just quickly facing the tomorrowland issue and becoming outdated) only for ips to take over causing it to become less unified and more scattered with diminishing quality due to the company seeing ips as a way to put less effort into an attraction
I'm not sure that I agree that Epcot became outdated so quickly. There were definitely aspects and attractions that did, but I think its main staples would still be relevant even today. I think it's also important that attractions like Horizons even shot more for inspiration, rather than actual feasibility. I believe a strength of Spaceship Earth and World of Motion was their heavy emphasis on history, leaving their post-show content malleable enough to update when needed. The narrative that Epcot was outdated seemed to stem from lack of upkeep, more than the actual content of the classic attractions themselves in my opinion.
@@PoseidonEntertainment that definitely makes a lot of sense
Honestly, I think Frozen Ever After should’ve been put where Snow white’s scary adventures was since they just end up replacing it with a meet and greet anyway.
In Marlstrom the aesthetic of the line area was great. I remember walking in and thinking this was gonna be an educational ride like all of Epcot at the time and it was the opposite. The randomness is what makes this ride so amazing. This ride was the root of my nightmares. Without context, as a child the mysticism, fear, beauty, and mediocrity made this a memorable ride. Even visiting Norway many years later, I can see how they grabbed certain aspects into the ride. Norway is not exciting but when you visit the fjords you feel the magic and terror of the trolls. I was in sheer terror and in tears and showing up in the raining storm room with the oil rig showed me the sea can be harsh and calm. Much respect. Sorry, but I’m a vote for the old school.
"Disappear, disappear!!" I miss that part so much.
I remember the trolls as a highlight of the attraction.
I loved Maelstrom. When it closed it was my second favorite ride at the park after Spaceship Earth. That said, it was very quirky and random but I personally liked that. I also loved the movie at the end. I will admit that the queue line needed more atmosphere before the loading area but it was usually a station wait so it didn't really affect the experience. But if they had had a nicely themed queue like the Florida version of Pirates of the Caribbean but themed to some type of Medieval Norway I think that would have really been amazing.
I always loved Maelstrom despite the fact that it was objectively pretty lame. The backwards movement was unique for it's time. I like Norse mythology, so that was fun for me. That part of the park also had almost no rides, and there was almost never much of a line, so it was a decent way to get off my feet and out of the heat a bit. And there was just some weird, quaint charm to it. It was a lame ride, but it was my lame ride.
Very well thought out presentation and I totally agree. I remember riding Maelstrom for the first time when it opened and the first thing I noticed was how the black light effect was too intense and felt like a six flags dark ride.
now THAT's what i call a hot spicy take. I've never been on frozen because it was closed last time i went to disney but I remember maelstrom very fondly. Frozen looks beautiful but i still wish they would've done something more educational/culturally accurate :/
I enjoy Frozen when I can learn to put my cynical rage aside. It's definitely worth a ride, and something about it still feels like Maelstrom. I think perhaps it's the smell of the building.
I always remembered the Maelstrom and am sorry to.see.it go. Seeing the fishing village at the end brought me back there. I remember it feeling weird to end at the village but it also a cool atmosphere. Will forever miss the troll banishing us.
Yessssss haven't watched the video yet but I've always thought this! What a good channel this is
Thanks, I'm glad that you enjoy this kind of stuff!
If they wanted to include Disney IP, they should've gone with Thor: the characters are legitimately from Norse mythology. I know that that would conflict with Disney's agreement with Universal regarding use of Marvel characters in theme parks, but it would've been such a perfect combination of everything.
“An attraction based only on classic Norse mythology you say?! Might I direct your attention to some of our most profitabl- oh whoops, I meant to say our best and super most accurate Norse characters of Thor and Loki and their adventures throughout the galax-uhh whoopsie…I meant throughout Norway! You’ll be dying to give us your money….uhhh I mean experience this magical journey as soon as possible”
-Bob Iger, probably
“We are proud to announce our new and VERY magical additions to the new Thor and Loki ride: Norse Character Expression Glasses! Now for the first time ever, you will be able to see the Magical Faces + experience that will allow you to actually see the faces of the characters in your adventure! Of course, you can still ride the attraction without purchasing the Glasses, but we are proud to now offer our guests the chance to actually be able to see the new projection-mapped faces on the animatronics themselves for only $39.99 each!”
-Bob Chapek, probably
Does Frozen Ever After really retell the story of the film though? To me, it doesn't, it's more like a montage of songs. My problem with the ride(while I think it is better than Maelstrom) is that there is no story, no start, middle or end, poorly paced with no links between scenes and no sense of conflict or danger and thus no excitement. The Fantasyland dark rides tend to have that sense of conflict or danger that is overcome in the end, like with snow white, pinocchio and Peter Pan, but we don't get that at all in Frozen ever after. It's just a montage of songs not even in the context that they are sung in the film. It is miles better than Maelstrom but a very lazy ride.
I've always perceived it as telling its story through the musical numbers. However, you do make a good point that there's absolutely no conflict, but I never saw that as essential to these types of rides. If we take Peter Pan for an example, it's also very loosely telling its story but the scenes aren't connected well enough for you to really know what's happening unless you've seen the film and I don't perceive Frozen as being any different. I know that Mr. Toad is also an outlier in that it devolves from the central story and instead ends negatively. However, the majority of people still consider it a classic that belongs with all the other Fantasyland attractions. I take your point that you've made, but now that I think on it, I don't see any clear formula.
@@PoseidonEntertainment Peter Pan is very loose in terms of conflict, but at least there is the presence of a recognisable villain who is seen 'defeated' at the end of the ride. But Peter Pan is probably the base example for a good dark ride adaptation which is taking something from the source material that guests would want to experience that can only really be fully accomplished in the medium of a themed attraction. In Peter Pan's case it's obviously the sensation of flying over stuff. I would agree though, there are too many outliers for there to be a clear formula. But Frozen Ever After could have done this! The action of the film is getting to the ice palace, that should've been the ride, a journey with Anna, Kristoff, Olaf to go see Elsa. They could have just swapped the Let It Go scene with the Snow monster bit and that would be so much better, you'd have the conflict of the confrontation with the monster, then the drop, then a climactic scene with the biggest song in the film. It's an easy fix to me which is what makes it more frustrating!
@@vimes1003 You're definitely making me rethink my praise for the attraction. That does sound like the better experience and now I really want it.
First of all - how come you only have 2740 subscribers? Your videos definitely deserve a lot more!!! I recently stumbeled across your channel while searching for videos about Walt Disney World and I got hooked. The last couple of days I have been binge watching your videos and they do not only help me relieve some of my longing to visit there again but they are also really educational. Unfortunately I only visited WDW only once back in 1990 but I still have fond memories eventhough it is more than 30 years ago. Regarding the Frozen Ride I totally agree with your statement that it would have been better off in the Magic Kingdom and Maelstrom should have been updated another way. Although the World Showcase plays with clishés a lot (no, Germany is not Bavaria and we Germans do not wear Lederhosen and Dirndl all day lol) I still think each country should be represented with the things they are best known for. As I can tell from watching your videos and also the Imagineering documentaries on the Disney channel the changes that have been made to the parks are not all for the better and in my noble opinion they lack what also the new Disney movies lack - heart and soul.
Granted, I've gained over 500 subscribers within the last week and a half, but I appreciate the support!
I've been a bit conflicted about the World Showcase. While I understand that it has never been an authentic representation of any particular country or culture, at the very least it has historically aimed to educate and inspire people to learn more. I think that leans into why I like Maelstrom. It didn't directly educate anyone about the pagan mythology of the Norse, but was at the very least an intriguing interpretation. I'm sure that its odd nature compelled a lot of people to at least learn a superficial bit of information about the country, which I think makes it a success. While I do think the country pavilions have a lot of odd stereotypes included in their interpretations, it at least was done with good intentions.
Unfortunately it may be a response to parents claiming their kids thing Epcot is “boring”. I remember Epcot as a kid it was not boring. In fact my son loves Epcot and he’s only 1. I think it may be the expectations of a Disney vacation being all Disney all the time and merch sales.
Agreed. It's not that I think Disney parks shouldn't appeal to kids, but I see a fundamental difference between "kids entertainment" and "family entertainment". I enjoy Frozen for what it is as a film, but it's shallow compared to the rest of the Disney animated library. I also found Epcot really fascinating as a kid and the whole narrative that "kids find it boring" is a vocal minority I expect.
The only thing memorable about Maelstrom was feeling like you were in the big wide ocean with that oil platform scene.
I think many of us will make a similar argument for guardians. It’s going to be a great ride but it didn’t belong in Epcot and while universe of energy desperately needed an update this was not the right replacement for Epcot
Like a lot of things, Maelstrom really did need upgrading, but not gutting out and replaced completely. Disney keeps doing this lately with things, such as when they killed The Great Movie Ride and replaced it with a vanilla Mickey Mouse ride, and it’s really annoying. It’s like Disney can’t see itself existing in anything beyond their own IPs anymore.
This has unfortunately been the case since Universal opened the Harry Potter land back last decade. Disney has gone overboard with using IPs in attractions on experiences throughout the past decade in reaction to this without fully understanding the success of that land.
Though even though this whole mentality applies to The Great Movie Ride as you brought up, there’s an aspect I’m surprised wasn’t brought up in Poseidon’s video as good as that video is in deconstructing the ride. Heck, I hardly see it talked about in Disney forums or discussions. I can’t understand why the Mickey and Minnie ride uses that shit art style that’s been used in Disney animated shorts since 2013. It looks off like it’s trying to be “Ren and Stimpy“ intentional or not, and the writing in them just adds fuel to the fire in that aspect.
Im waiting for a gran fiesta tour retheme rode to coco. Coco is IP but it’s accurate to the Latin American culture. The three cabellos are very stereotypical. The movie coco was a massive success in Mexico.
I agree, but that queue could not handle a Coco ride
@Adiel Alfonso I’m Latina and my first language is Spanish it autocorrected
Can’t wait for Disney to ruin their parks exclusively with IP’s. But I mean if there was something to replace the grand fiesta tour, it should be Coco.
@@psyche5893 three caballeros is IP! Also what’s the problem with IP? I truly don’t understand what’s the problem! It’s amazing to be inside your favorite movie and world. Specially one you grew up with.
The non cohesive narrative is due to the Norwegian government’s demands. The video at the end was to display Norway as a modern nation not just Vikings and polar bears. The video was just to fulfill all of Norway’s demands.
Wow, wow, wow! I was just becoming a fan of your channel and then I see this. While far from perfect and certainly dated by the time it closed, Maelstrom was a fun ride I must have gone on dozens of times. And the cheesy, mail-it-in incarnation of Frozen that replaced it has to be one of the worst attractions at any of the Disney parks.
And might I add, I’ve not found the video yet, but if you say Slinky Dog is a bad ride I seriously have to question your judgement. When it first opened I actually waited in line with my daughter for almost 2 hours to ride it and we both loved it. I never wait in lines that long. I do agree with your comments about The Seven Dwarfs mine train. That plain stinks.
My family and I loved this ride for the sole fact that we thought it made no sense. We loved riding it because the key was never super long, it was some thing to do that wasn’t in air conditioning and it always made us laugh. Plus the gift shop was pretty cool. Spot on, we were upset when it closed but when we rode frozen we weren’t as upset because frozen was a good ride. Absolutely belongs in Magic Kingdom though.
The thing is the great parts of that ride have stuck with me since childhood...
The magical stuff lol
I agree as well. Maelstrom was never that good, it wasn't until its removal that people came to jump on that ride's dying bones. But that place could of been cool for a norse mythology attraction though.
I always felt scared and sad by the oil rigs at the end when I was a kid, I wish it covered a story narrative of the historical and cultural parts of Norway. I enjoyed the mythical and folklore aspects and agree I wish they did more with that. Amazing video still!
I was just in Epcot last week. This used to be my favorite park as a kid and it’s really sad to see it’s decline. It still has a couple great attractions and exploring world showcase is still a delight but the lack of cohesion is very real. It makes me sad how Walt Disney’s original vision has been spat on by current leadership and Epcot is only one example of that.
I think Epcot as park, from its very inception, was definitely something that Walt Disney wouldn't have wanted though. It was a great park that embodied his creative spirit, but I think he would have seen it as a disservice to his original vision. It's definitely gotten so much worse though. The arrogance of Disney leadership putting a Walt statue at "Dreamer's Point" as if it's his endorsement of the new Epcot is ridiculously insulting to his memory.
@@PoseidonEntertainment I agree that even the original park wasn’t perfect but at least it tried to capture the spirit of invention and progress. And at the time, it did that very well. But I agree it’s definitely gotten so much worse over time. They should have updated the attractions to reflect how technology and the world has progressed but that is clearly not a priority 🙁
@@savannahatkins1488 I'm glad that we agree. I think that the empty Communicore space could have easily been converted in a yearly festival that showcased new technology to keep the park relevant. I think it's unfortunate that the west side was demolished for rockwork and landscaping.
@@PoseidonEntertainment They clearly have no unified vision for the park and it’s quite sad. Both Epcot and Hollywood Studios have become a mishmash of different IP based lands and attractions and have lost their cohesion. The park I was most impressed by on my last visit was Animal Kingdom actually. It was my first visit since the introduction of Pandora and I was quite impressed with the way they brought that to life in a way that fit with the design of the park. Even though it is based on an IP, the natural look of everything made it feel at home amongst the other lands. I’m pretty sure the new Epcot attractions (particularly Cosmic Rewind) will have the same affect though…
Maelstrom and that film about Norway was one of my favorite Epcot experiences. Seems like everything that was good is dying.
A very well-put and fair analysis!
Maelstrom never really seemed interesting to me, but after watching this video I agree that if it had stuck with a mythology narrative and had a better queue, that would have been so fun.
Regarding Frozen, I'll admit I am very biased against Frozen as I personally feel the movie was just OK, and did not live up to the potential of its inspiration The Snow Queen. And even then, I feel the ride doesn't adapt the movie well but feels more like a meet-and-greet. The main "objective" of the ride is to go see Elsa in her ice palace, and... that's it. We do meet some other characters, but it doesn't feel particularly exciting, not like classic dark rides where the guests are put in the main characters' shoes and experience the adventure from their point of view. It's a shame, because there was potential to make a good Frozen ride, but doesn't quite reach it.
I agree with your analysis of Frozen. I produced the video and felt one way, but now that the video has been out for a while and people have continued to point out the inconsistencies between Frozen and the majority of Disney's other fantasy dark rides, I regret not putting more thought into it.
I don't think there should be any IPs in Epcot, Epcot was once a place you could go even if you knew next to nothing about disney
I just remember as a kid being scared of some river ride at Epcot. This must have been it. I don’t think my son will be scared remembering Frozen. That’s a plus.
When I was little, I remembered it as a Coca Cola ride because of how vividly I remembered the polar bears.
What do you think about the Mexico ride that uses three Disney IP? Should make a video about it like you did in this one
I've thought about it, but it's a different case. Changing out the videos for Donald and friends isn't ideal, but I also don't feel that the original attraction conveyed its educational goal very well. I'm annoyed that it's not more explicitly educational, because the Three Caballeros would have at least made sense if they would have paid even some artificial attention to teaching about Mexico.
The oil rig was my favorite part
A classic moment
I loved malstorm all time favorite ride as a kid I was borning in 2007 and Remember so much from my old Epcot even tho it wasn’t that long ago I still got to ride a lot of the old rides. I use to love the Norway pallvion and wanted to vist Norway in real life because of how much malstorm had a impact on me
Great video. I’d still much rather have Maelstrom, but I can’t deny that Frozen Ever After is a very good ride (just in a very wrong place).
Thanks, I appreciate it!
I have ridden each once. When I came out of Maelstrom, there was an 8-9 year old kid who said to his mom, "I don't even know what that was." I echoed his sentiment. I thought Frozen was an awesome Fantasyland attraction that had no business in Epcot or Norway.
I am one of the people who complains about the empty show scenes, so I thought that your point about not looking at the painted walls was pretty valid. The only place where I disagree is in the "Let It Go" scene. It just feels so empty and soulless to me, especially after being one of the coolest animated sequences in recent film. having an empty room with projections compare to that is just...disappointing. Something like the telescoping sets in the Bourne stunt show would be awesome in Elsa's palace IMO. My other two problems are that they didn't fix up the ride, and the quality and noises of the actual system is really out of place compared to the top-notch sets and animatronics. I also wish the ride was actually cold. It really damages my suspension of disbelief that the ride is super loud and muggy. LOL! Great video though! Obviously it really made me think.
Maelstrom wasn’t a great ride but I loved because it was bad lol. For me too, it was the only attraction that gave me a taste of “vintage Epcot” Everything I’ve heard about it was that this was a “too many cooks” situation. Joe Ronde wanted a full on fantasy ride but the Norwegian government wanted something else.
I wouldn't consider Maelstrom bad. Just not nearly as strong as it could have been, especially because of the reason you just pointed out.
I remember that shortly after frozen (the movie) was released, the Gods of Norway display was temporarily replaced with Frozen 2 promotional material. Maelstrom never stood a chance.
If only there was a place in Fantasyland where Frozen could've gone...OH WHAT ABOUT PRINCESS FAIRYTALE HALL!!!!!!
Also the oil rigs give me Cars 2 flashbacks...
The trouble is that, and maybe I’m in the minority, I don’t see Frozen reaching the status of Snow White, Cinderella, or Winnie the Pooh in terms of longevity. Not that it’s a complete flash in the pan, but the minimal amount of emotional tension in favor of comic relief and the reliance on special effects over storytelling, I think will make it forgettable within a generation.
You're not wrong. Even Snow White and Cinderella aren't completely timeless, they definitely reflect the time period they were made in, but the 2D animation has aged well and they were at least earnest fantasies, whereas Frozen is one cynical quip after the other.
I disagree that Disney parks shouldn't have Disney IPs. Why else go to Disney World if you don't want to see Disney characters?
Poseidon Entertainment isn't suggesting that Disney parks shouldn't have Disney IPs in them; he's arguing that the Disney IPs need to be in the right park. For example, it makes sense for Pandora: the World of Avatar to be in Animal Kingdom, since the park has a conservation message, and the movie is about human's exploitation of nature. Coco would be fine in the Mexico pavilion at EPCOT, as long as it sought to educate guests on Mexican culture and traditions, such as the Day of the Dead. And I wourd argue that the new Moana: The Way of Water walk-through attraction at EPCOT also kind of makes sense, beause the IP influence doesn:t overwhelm the educational and interactive aspects. I think Poseidon Entertainment is simply pointing out that Frozen Ever After has little or nothing to do with Norway. At least Remy's Ratatouille Adventure at the France pavilion, manages to serve as a way to interest people in the grand French culinary tradition.
The ride should’ve been improved and not replaced because the concept had so much potential. I still enjoyed the ride but I would’ve loved to have seen it made longer and vastly improved with more cohesiveness like you said. Frozen doesn’t work to showcase Norwegian culture but the ride is fine itself. Just doesn’t fit with Epcot. Feels more like Magic Kingdom.
Soon they’ll take it a step further and theme it to Marvel’s Thor. Try to make that stretch of the Norse Mythology and Marvel IP placement
@Poseidon Entertainment They should have Just upgraded mealstrom and hoven Frozen it's own area. That area could have also been used for Christmas (or the icelandic version of it).
The problem with over emphasis on ips is that the individual parks are losing their unique identities. It makes the 4 parks feel more like 1 massive park instead of 4 separate individual parks with their own experiences. I feel the same about Universal parks as well.
As an adult, I can appreciate the edutainment angle they were originally going for. As a kid, man, WS was so boring! Only 2 rides, RoT was boring and M was alternately scary and boring. Today at 35 years old but neither an epicurean nor a shopper, I still think WS is honestly pretty boring overall. Its 1 hour to walk the loop max, plus AA show, China film and now FEA.
If every pavilion had an IP dark ride I would spend much more time there, be more invested, and not feel as bad making my kids spend their theme park time at the lagoon. And very, VERY unlike MK, there is actually space at Epcot to do that. I know nobody wants to hear it, but the cultural edutainment fanbase is probably far too niche to sustain 1/4 of WDW, even moreso now that there are more good restaurants elsewhere.
Others have discussed about budget cuts to Maelstrom during its development, the schedule, etc. It is/was not what it was originally intended to be.
Next you’re gonna tell me Living With The Land isn’t THE BEST ride at Disney World. Everyone wants to hear the voice say NurvAy!
I believe the que was so simple because it gave the IKEA feel lol.
Ikea is Sweeden, not Norway
While globally there might be dozens of us with this opinion.. 😅 but Living with the land is my favorite Epcot ride and is my second favorite Disney ride in general only behind Florida Tower of Terror. Lol I know I’m weird
My criticism of Frozen ever after is similar in that it doesn't relay the feel of Norway. If you look at Ratatouille, it appears to relay the feeling of France and I am not as insulted by the placement of IP there (the movie is a love letter to Paris, after all). However, I always felt that Frozen was out of place in Epcot and I hate that the beautiful recreation of the Norwegian village around it is ignored.
That's pretty spot on. I agree with your take on things.
@@PoseidonEntertainment I would love your opinion on why Disney has not expanded the World Showcase. Why haven't they invested in different countries (the long rumored Brazil never went anywhere)?
I agree---mostly...The quirkiness of Maelstrom made crashing down into the north seas oil firlds sort of spooky and majestic,,,and then there was that great narration...I think the new frozen attraction looks cheap and like a showcase for new model anudi animatronics and I HATE the projected faces they are sooooooooo 2nd class-Disney should replace all of them 7 dwarves and buzz as well
Funny enough that ride and a frozen land will be feature in tokyo disneysea's new expansion "fantasy springs",along side peter pan and tangled.
Disney sea has been said to not feel like a disney park and its really smart how the OLC made the ip integration into the expansion to be his own inclose corner of the park,not contrasting the disneysea skyland(of mount prometheus and tower of terror) as a whole.
It's weird how IP heavy the OLC is going with this, but because it's them, I know it'll be handled correctly. I didn't realize that the new Frozen attraction would be cloned though. I have to wonder if they'll expand on it because I can't imagine that the current version suffices for the ambition that the OLC usually goes for.
My biggest vice is the weird screen faces on the animatronics that are very weird to look at and clearly dont match the bodies
It's incredibly distracting. In addition, considering the animatronic quality in the new Beauty and the Beast attraction in Tokyo, these animatronics instantly look outdated.
I wasn’t terribly bothered by the frozen ride being in Norway, as I think the three cabeleros ride in the mexico section set a precedent for a movie ride tie in. That said, as someone from a German immigrant family trying to learn about our roots in Germanic paganism, it was a shame to lose my childhood introduction to those gods and folklore that we share with Norwegians.
Excellent commentary! At first I thought “Frozen better than Maelstrom? THEMS FIGHTIN WORDS!” But your argument is sound!!! 👍
You the spiciest ParksTuber and I love you for it
I think it is fair to mention that with the "Frozen" theming and interest more in "said" merchandise -- the cultural and educational falls WAY back. A true lost all the way around.
I agree. Maelstrom was a good ride for its time. And for what it was meant to do which is to give us this view of norway, both it's Legends and myths and it's modern day. So it was fun for what it was. The boat carvings were gorgeous and that mural was wonderful. And the first few times when you would see people think we were about to go over those falls before we go forward again, that was fun. But it aged, it needed to do something new. If it didn't do Frozen, it would still need a new ride that represented Norway. The only thing I don't like about Frozen is these new animatronics with the projection faces. I don't think there is good because they have no depth to the face. The first one, buzz lightyear, work because he was a toy he doesn't have to look like anything but a toy. But when you start doing the bride and haunted Mansion and characters like Frozen and Mickey Mouse, it doesn't work and really should have a full animatronic until they get this technology down right. I used to love Maelstrom and the movie after it, but it was getting to a time where you said, this needs something new. Those polar bears for example... They needed something new just on their own.
I loved Maelstrom and was deeply saddened when it got taken out. Epcot should be changing. The World's Fair concept is pretty dated now arguably moribund by 1964's New York World Fair. I enjoy Epcot as a place where countries can put their best foot forward and make a compelling argument to come and visit their country for real. The top of the park was a problem due to the fact that it was too much about the future which eventually becomes today and looks dated as a result.
I get the retheme was targeted towards children and nowadays that means it can't be the slightest bit scary, but the thing that bums me about the frozen ride is that it has an extreme lack of diverse emotion despite the original movie being very much emotional. It's just a happy fun trip through scenes somewhat resembling things that happened in the movie (mostly the songs), only executed in a way that puts on a marketable image for Frozen
I'm thinking about the hypotheticals. To someone who knows nothing about Norway other than "hey, vikings", Maelstrom tried to have an inquisitive aura about it, and it was at least an entry ticket into Norwegian mythology & history. The finale was perilous enough to be memorable. Even from going to WDW every year I couldn't remember what happened in the Frozen ride after the waterfall without looking it up. To somebody who's never seen all of Frozen, the Frozen ride only really depicts its marketability, not its true narrative elements. I much prefer Maelstrom's approach with the main conflict of confronting mythical trolls, being sent through time in Norway (or even just sent through Norse mythology if we're going with that theme), and ending the ride by having to survive an intense storm with waves crashing on the boat like they used to. It should've been executed way better, but what the Frozen ride STANDS FOR is a lot more dumbed down than Maelstrom was
I agree. My wife and I enjoy the World Showcase "movie" attractions, especially America. The attractions in the Norway and Mexico pavilions don't fit the theme of World Showcase.
I never saw Maelstrom as a massive E ticket or anything, but I greatly valued it as a classic lengthy EPCOT Center experience: you get the ride, but then the wait in the fishing town, then a five minute film, meaning that in total you actually get something more like a 10 minute experience or thereabouts rather than a two minute ride alone.
Add on to that the other thing about a lot of classic EPCOT attractions that linger today: as long as they're around, the hope remains that they'll get some TLC or some well-targeted updates to keep them fresh. Maelstrom still being around circa 2010 meant "there's still hope!" Once the IP invasions begin, the hope dies. I'm certainly not in the demographic for a Frozen attraction, but it just guts me to see the IP infusion in World Showcase and to see a slightly longer attraction replaced by another two minute ride.
I find the whole IP infusion of Epcot to be stomach churning. The original park was an artistic expression and new additions continued to feed into what made it great. There were a lot of pretty significant missteps with Eisner, but at least the park still had a sense of identity. Now though, I fear the damage will be irreversible.
Oh I know it wasn’t the best but let’s just say it’s better than frozen. Anything is better than frozen. Jabbing my eye with a sharp dagger is better than Elsa.
Frozen is overrated and I don’t recall the oil rig
I do agree though they could have updated it with the country…keep the initial myth intro but have people go backwards through fjords then go forwards through a beautiful scene of the northern lights
I have been to the real Norway and it is an amazing country that deserves better representation and should get included in the festivals
Going to Maelstrom as a teen, my peers and I liked it because it was the only "thrill" ride in EPCOT. We always skipped the movie.
Yes! At first I thought, “oh no! Here is a frozen lover.” But the more I listened the more I thought you were spot on. I’ll be honest, I can’t stand Frozen. But I do respect that it’s a major hit and does warrant an attraction. But it does not belong at Epcot. It belongs in Fantasyland at the MK. I think they should have found a way to expand fantasy land. They could have maybe wrapped it around the speedway to where Tron is and built Tron at Epcot. Maelstrom was the perfect World showcase attraction. I would have been completely ok with them doing updates to Maelstrom. Epcot should be reserved for more historic and intellectual outlooks on the countries in world show case. Maelstrom fits that description. I went to Epcot as a child and I was stimulated in way to learn more and use my imagination the way Epcot was intended.
Honestly I would have no problem if the Speedway was demolished and used for more Fantasyland and/or Tomorrowland attractions. There's nothing that makes it special or stand out from other motorized rail attractions and it just takes up too much valuable real-estate in the park. I think it would be the perfect place to put in an Alice in Wonderland dark ride similar to the one at Disneyland, with room left over for Frozen as well.
Of all the countries' attractions in World Showcase, Maelstrom and the Spirit of Norway film inspired my wife and I to do a Norwegian Fjord cruise for our 25'th wedding anniversay. Today, Frozen Ever is just another generic Disney ride that tells nothing about what Norway was and is.
Maelstrom was good from the perspective of it being the best of two rides in World Showcase. It was by no means as sacred as Horizons, World of Motion, or the original Journey into Imagination.
I agree. It was flawed, but I think certainly had the potential to become a classic in the vein of the others if certain creative decisions had been made.
Actually Maelstrom was and is as good as I remember it. Maybe an upgrade was due, but a re- skin, non-themeatic overhaul just doesn't work in the Norway pavilion.
I remember liking the soundtrack from the final movie in Maelstrom.
Are you kidding me I have great memories of that ride I remember going on with my family they loved it excuse me
Pretty sure the reason why malestroms oil rig scene was advertised to be thrilling is because on release there was a Tesla coil shooting electricity to mimic lightning
Was that in the marketing? I'm quite sure that it didn't open with the tesla coil.
This- I believe there was marketing , but with the water splashing it became too dangerous and was quickly disengaged.
They should make a ride called "Thor: Maelstrom";... It makes itself
Closing Horizons was the first step in the destruction of Epcot.
Frozen Ever After, while a great dark ride IMO, does take away from Epcot’s initial goal of, as you put it, “edutainment.” However, if Disney truly thinks that adding IPs to the parks will draw in more guests, then there is a balance IMO that can be struck, and I feel like Gran Fiesta Tour Starring The Three Caballeros strikes that balance. I mean, what was El Rio de Tiempo? A boat ride through Mexico? And what is Gran Fiesta Tour? Also a boat ride through Mexico…. But with the Three Caballeros. If future Epcot attractions kept this mindset, we could get the best of both worlds.
Side note: I get the feeling that the big reason we’re getting a lot of diversity in Disney movies lately is so they can have IPs to put into Epcot. Don’t be surprised if we see a Luca ride in the Italy pavilion or a Shang Chi ride in the China pavilion.
I never thought that El Rio de Tiempo was particularly strong as an attraction, but at the very least it was unique. I like that little was changed when it transitioned to the Grand Fiesta Tour, but it's still annoying. The antics of Donald and friends doesn't add to the experience at all.
you have the Mine train in Fantasy land in the Magic Kingdom but you don't need 2 snow white rides, so take the first snow white ride turn it into frozen, up date Maelstrom ride slow the boat down change the last part of the oil rig, take out the the film at the end have it played while you are in line to get on the boatexit the boar walk through a Noweigean town fake shops and home why it looks In Norway, who ever thought of replacing energy with that Gardien of the Galaxy should be fired.
In another timeline rather than a Frozen ride, it's a Marvel Thor themed attraction I'm sure of it. I wouldn't even be surprised if in this reality that was floated around in board rooms because hey! Thor is based on Norwegian Mythology!
Frozen Ever After should’ve been a separate ride placed between Norway and Mexico. They had plenty of room for it and could’ve gone with a sleigh concept to make a better fit. Walt always said he wanted to “plus” the parks, not replace.
IPs have killed Epcot and turned it into nothing but a cash machine. Epcot once had really good original stories and characters of which there are only a couple left.
Maelstrom WAS great. It didn’t need a story and not all rides need a story. I cleaned that ride for five years and still loved it.
Ignoring the obvious comparisons to Maelstrom, I don’t think Frozen Ever After is necessarily terrible but it is a step down from the last attraction and proves my point of many Disney parks being redundant nowadays which is why I’ve never gotten the criticism behind Universal Studios who actually try and make their decisions based on guests’ feedback which is the right direction in my opinion.