Worship Tech Booth Makeover | My New Broadcast Mix Setup
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
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For the sake of volunteer's easy training we use Harrison Consoles Mixbus 6 DAW. The biggest benefit is that has a very analog look and all compressors, EQ, routing, etc. are in front of you and can be controlled with your control surface. No need to click to uncover plugins, although we still use Waves plugins for very specific tasks. I'd love you'd give it a try Jake 😀
Love your comment about no church ever being ideal. I handle streaming and audio at two church campuses and each one ALWAYS has some quirk about them. Our running joke is always what challenge the Good Lord has for us that day when we come in to start up and run everything. And BTW, we're all volunteers, so audio professionalism is a mixed bag and adds another dynamic to our challenges.
I have been running a similar system for a half a year now. I run Reaper as my DAW and use only waves plugins on a windows desktop. The only difference is my buffer size is set to 64 and I send all 48 channels back into my GLD 80 for the house as well. My board then sends my broadcast mix from aux out to my broadcast computer where it gets delayed to match the video. Had a lot of bugs and issues along the way. But been running great since I have tweaked it all. Great video! Love what you guys are doing!
A solution to the mix being influenced by the room is to have a separate frequency monitor for the broadcast output (I know mixing using visuals is bad practice) this will then allow the broadcast mix engineer to see if they are putting in enough bass or not, or if there is something missing from the mix that they might not be hearing.
how are yall keeping Audio in sync with the program feed?
Thanks a lot! Big help for our church
How do you setup streaming with DAW plugin and with Faderport ?
Do you have the video setup ? Thanks
Thanks for your videos and recomendations! We just switched from using an AUX mix to a M1 Mac mini + Logic Pro + Bethel Lite template (only stock plugins) + Waves Tune RT and the result is incredible! We actually run at 512 samples which gives us the exact latency (28ms roundtrip + 14ms due to lookaheads in plugins) to sync up with our video stream. We could even run at 64 samples (9ms roundrip) without touching 40% CPU on any core!
Great to hear!
Quick note on Dante, April 2021 is the date Audinate are targeting for the Controller software on an M1 Mac. Audinate state they are targeting MID YEAR 2021 for Dante Virtual Soundcard support for M1 Macs :-( Waiting on this too, to be able to put in an M1 Mini for our broadcast audio to replace my personal Macbook.
ah shoot
@@Churchfront Have you looked at the Klark Teknik DN9630 AES50 module at all? Wondering if this might work as an alternative to get audio from an M32/X32/Wing without DVS?
We are currently using Dante Via now with M1 Mac mini base model with great success, Its working and is unofficially supported (I know its not as robust as Dante virtual sound card) but being able to source our program audio from the broadcast booth to the livestream computer at FOH this works perfect!
If you don’t want to wait for Dante you could try an AES50 to usb device... klark teknik dn9630, works with Wing and would give you some flexibility similaritsh to Dante
I Got The MXKeys on Sunday and i love it really
Hey Jake, for Dante and the Mac M1 you can use the Dante VIA app which works for it. We are currently using it but the only downside right now is it's only limited to 16 channels.
We did the same, works perfectly!
If you don't want to wait on a dante that long, set up an alert on ebay and you can probably score one if you're quick. We did a few weeks ago.
This is great do you have any training on how you setup your daw to route all the audio back into the mixer, this is the only missing part in my church
Very nice set up 👍👍👍
Hi Jake great video, I just need a little explanation on how do you output the audio from the Mac mini and input into to the Wing, I didn't understand how do you route the audio back into the Wing, thanks.
Great video thx. Please do a video that shows how you send the audio from the DAW back to the WING then back to the ATEM SWITCHER. Please. I am keen to understand the cables used and routing
Thanks for the training a d lesson, do you have other daws, like I use studio one and cubase, do you have tutorials for our Daw!!!!!!
Select the mixer as the interface in your DAW and everything else should apply.
Ableton Live is IMHO by FAR the best DAW for live use. For recording, I use Logic Pro. For live, I use Ableton Live Intro and MainStage. It's a killer combination. Logic Pro can be a CPU hog when you use it live - Ableton is crazy efficient.
"I've been talking for about 25 minutes".... 15 minute mark... LOL!!
(I know, I know... that was probably before you edited a bunch of content out, but it was still funny... yes, yes it was!)
😂
I always love the content. Very helpful. I know you might not have much control over what TH-cam does with ads, but with the video having mid roll ads, I got interrupted 4 times with ads over the short 16 minute video. That plus the self-sponsored ads, really took away from the learning experience. Please don’t stop posting.
Hey Jake, you can order it off of Thomson.de
Sweet water told us May mid and Thomson sent our Dante card in less than a week. And no import tax if the cost is less than $800... plus you might get a better price than SW😄
Thank me later
Great tips! Audio routing can be really tricky when you want the next level like this.
you guys have any material like a book or a course for all that you would learn at church front
Great layout of what you got.
One thing I have leant is that when you mix broadcast it Import to see the band!
When we mix live we are taught to look alway from the desk and at the instrument you are adjusting this is so your using your ears not your eyes to render the adjustment.
The visual input from the stage is an important element in how a 'performance' is perceived. During our lockdown I post mixed all our services and the sound ok. When paired with the video something was off, it's like the sound did not match the image. In one case it was so had I had to redo the set. Why do TurboSound paint there speakers blue? Because the blue speakers sounded better, it wasn't that they were performing different it was all to do with how the sound was perceived. Color, tone, blues, reds, pinks, they must have something to do with it. When I post mix a service I bring the video track into my DAW so I have something to look at.
All I can say is that I'm visual input effects the way the sound heard/perceived.
Love your work bro.
Ican you do a full video on portable camera for worship with video switcher with all the gear
While waiting for Dante, do you know if Klark Teknik DN9630 AES50 to USB 2.0 Converter can help for Mixing in another room????
I use the DN9630 with a pro series console, you can send and receive 24 ch @ 96k and 48ch @ 48k I highly recommend it, and also it’s very affordable
I use a Presonus 16R with the new Dante-AVB box. I would like to move to a software-only mixer (on the Mac M1) with Dante-only connections. My Shure Axient 8ch wireless mics are Dante already. Any videos or guides to help this setup would be great. The Ableton Live maybe a good start to making it happen!
how do you root the xair18 with protools? and be able to get the sound to the FOH
What to do if we want to place Daw in an isolated room for a better listening experience. It's impossible to run a 50 ft USB cable. It is it possible to use a USB over Ethernet converter to connect the Daw to the audio console ? Thank you.
Very unlikely a USB over ethernet will work reliably for digital audio; USB is sensitive to clocking/timing. For an isolated room, Dante is your friend, or else (in an X32/M32 environment) you can add a cheaper X32 Rack or Core (or any X32/M32) and connect FoH and Broadcast via AES50, then use the USB interface on the isolated console to get the channels into a DAW. Other ways to do it with other brand/consoles.
@@jethri or an AES50 interface. Still cat cable, but more IO and cheaper.
@@calebpurvis6195 Absolutely, glad you mentioned that! I've considered something like the DN9630.
I haven't gone that route myself since an X32 of some type also gives me a usable backup mix to send out if the DAW computer starts to have an issue, then fringe benefits like it being an interface right there for me to plug in monitors, headphones, any sources that are local to broadcast.
One particular I like to do is send a Talkback mic from broadcast audio to the FOH console, routed to the band's ears; this way I can communicate during soundcheck (or emergency live situations). Plenty of other ways to do all of that, too, though :)
@@calebpurvis6195 Any few you could name just for future reference?
@@jethri The DN9630 would be my first choice also.
Great video ... Can I multi track record in pro tools via USB from an X32 mixer!
Have you thought about using AES as your input from the snake outs. Not sure about on the wing but on the X32 it gives you a LOT more functionality then the Dante card.
Great video. Very similar to what we are doing at my church. Is the template comparable to the Bethel one you covered in recent videos the advanced one with waves plugins? Or you added your own spin to it ?
I have a Problem
I want to try that setting with mainstage
But every Single channel Has a diffrent lantency
How I Can handle this?
Is that better with abelton?
Thanks alot Jake! I would like to ask more on how you monitor (using headphone) single channels by solo them, without interfering the master mix to go to livestream computer. Is it by using audio interface with more than one stereo output?
We don't solo channels during service, but I believe you can use the "cue" out in Ableton for monitoring and any soloing you do won't affect the master. But I need to test that out myself.
@@Churchfront yeah can you let us know if that works? I have tried to find a way using the cue but can't figure it out.
Jake: My Qu-32 is at Front of House and our broadcast computer is in another space approx 150' from each other. Can I run a 150' usb from the Qu-32 to our broadcast mix that I want to set up next to our broadcast computer?
Where is your video latency coming from? I want to delay video so I can use a larger buffer in Ableton. Currently I'm trying to find low/no latency solutions for audio, and if I could just delay the video a little bit it would save us so much money and headaches
Blackmagic ATEM switchers usually add quite a bit of delay to the video
@@schlausprecher3361 can you give any more details? we have those switchers, but my video is not delayed at all.
I haven't used an Atem in quite some time, so not sure how the new ones work. When syncing the audio and the output of the Atem outside of the Atem, the video should be delayed. If you input your audio directly into the Atem, there may be an option to delay it somewhere in the settings. I can only guess here though.
What the signal flow ?.? Mixer -> ableton?
Where is your video latency coming from? I want to delay video so I can use a larger buffer in Ableton, but I have the opposite problem - our video is zero latency
Really appreciate this video--thank you. Do you need a separate video card for the dual monitors?
The Mac mini M1 supports dual displays.
Great video! I always wonder tho why fl studio is hardly mentioned when it comes to DAWs lol
Yeah. I noticed that too
Not sure why it’s not mentioned more in general, but for live broadcast specifically, FL Studio would pose a challenge due to how CPU-intensive it is.
@@alexcooper3911 yea u have a point!
Any recommendations for a Windows PC instead of the Mac Mini? Anything special to look for?
with 8GB of RAM it would be enough to broadcast mix & live mix? I want to do both at the same time!
How are you routing the audio from the FOH mixer to the computer?
I’m looking to practice my daw multitrack mixing skills. Does anyone have any multitrack recordings from their churches that I could practice mixing?
Hey Jake, I would be really interested to see how you process your electronic drums. Do you take the stereo out from the drum module or do you have individual instruments or do you use a VST like Superior Drummer? Awesome video as always!
The drum brain only does stereo out which is a bummer
@@Churchfront One way we have successfully used in the past is to use a VST Drumkit (Addictive Drums or Superior Drummer) either standalone or hosted by a DAW and then output all the channels (sometimes up to 16 channels) via Dante Virtual Soundcard to the FOH and/or Streaming DAW. The electronic Drumkit brain sends MIDI to this VST to a computer located next to the drummer. Of course, you'd need Dante.
We do the same with our keys, using Mainstage and output via Dante without needing to do DA/AD conversion to get to FOH.
Why didn’t you use Studio One ?
Hey, Jake. So this is a dante connection from FOH am I right? What would the right strategy be to use a DAW and also have the ability to access gain independently? Does it need an analog split to another stagebox for that? Any recommendations?
He’s not on Dante yet, just the USB connection to the console, but it’s essentially the same signals coming into Ableton.
Strategy for independent preamp gain-firstly, think about if you really need that. It’s perfectly possible to do a broadcast mix without independent gain control. Work with the FoH engineer or whoever is designated to set gains, have a conversation about what levels work best for both of you. No one wants preamps to clip, so as long as they’re coming in clean, you can use a Gain plugin to increase or decrease signal “in the box”. If you had to have independent gain, then yeah, you’d need an analog split of the inputs into another set of preamps that you can control.
Couple scenarios: 1) If you do have access to Dante, you can go run your broadcast mix practically anywhere you can get a cable run to. (That’s why Jake is limited to on the same desk, because he’s using the USB which can’t reach distance).
2) If you can’t do Dante, and still want to get to another room, depending on your console, you can probably purchase a smaller version of it basically as an interface. For instance, in an X32/M32 environment, you might have a full-size at FoH, and a stage box on stage. If you have an open AES50 port at FoH, you can run that out to a X32-Rack or Core (or any X32/M32), go whatever distance you want, then connect that USB to your computer. As long as you’ve routed your 32 inputs to the AES50 port that’s going to your broadcast X32, you’re good to go. And you can even send the stereo output back through that AES50 to the FoH console or through the second AES50 port to another room, maybe an SD8 feeding the video switcher’s audio inputs.
Endless possibilities.
Hey Jake, do the inputs from the Wing to Ableton come in dry, or do you have little processing from the board to Ableton? I'm curious with what you do (besides gain staging).
yup, it comes dry from the stage boxes
Im on pre order to lol
1700 Dollars all setup for the US, while here that would cost almost double of the price, I'm just suffering seen that prices here on my contry.
We don't have oportunity to achive this even been a mid size church, that could take us decades to achive that kind of setup. ;-;
See one of the other comments, it is more around 2500 $.
Hi Jake, the church I attend recently purchased a high end desktop PC. And we also have a laptop. The laptop is currently running pro presenter and sending an NDI feed to vmix on the desktop.
I'm currently looking at broadcast mix solution. I have copy of Cubase which came with our yamaha desk. Would you recommend running multiple app on the same PC.
I'm thinking cubase on the laptop and pro presenter and vmix on the desktop or
Pro presenter on laptop and cubase and vmix on desktop?
Whatever computer is gonna do your broadcast mix, should not be doing anything else. Dedicated purpose to make sure it never lacks processing resources, which, if the computer is doing double duty, will likely result in occasional audio glitches, pops, dropouts, etc.
@@jethri thanks for the feedback, note taken
Hi. Why do you need the Behringer Wing if you are doing live mixing with Ableton? Could you not use direct Dante inputs or Focusrite Dante interfaces?
The Wing also serves as his front of house console, with some local I/O and interfacing with the stagebox for stage I/O and preamps. It has the added benefit of also being a USB interface (and eventually Dante-enabled device with the Dante card).
Got it thanks! I use a Presonus 16R with the new Dante-AVB box. I would like to move to a software-only mixer (on the Mac M1) with Dante-only connections. My Shure Axient 8ch wireless mics are Dante already. Any videos or guides to help this setup would be great. The Ableton Live maybe a good start to making it happen!
@@fkmobile1 If you're going to use Dante you should go through their level 1 and 2 training, you'll learn all you need. As far as Dante on the M1 mac, well, they're saying virtual soundcard is a "mid-2021" release. Fingers crossed.
www.audinate.com/learning/faqs/dante-software-on-macos-big-sur-and-apple-m1-based-computers
In the meantime, you should be able to to use the 16R as a USB interface for the M1. Provided you don't need to go far from it.
Link to Self Fellowship Church's stream yes ? :3
search for it on TH-cam. I believe in you.
How do you deal with the audio latency from using usb routing to match with ur video?
almost every video encoding software includes audio delay to synch up video and audio there is delay built in to pro presenter 7 as well which is what he uses as he mentioned he is running about 100 milliseconds to match it up
is it important in becoming a better worship leader mean I should wear my hats slightly crooked all the time? Lol 😂
YES
Did you have any difficulties setting up the MIDI controller with the M1 Mac? What version of macOS are you running?
All M1 Macs are at least Big Sur, if that helps.
@@jethri I’m aware there were issues with MIDI controllers introduced in macOS 11.2, just wanted to see if Jake managed to get it working on the latest version or was running macOS 11.1
How do you connect the wing to mac. I can't find the wing USB driver for mac. Any help, please.
Mac usually doesn't require drivers for USB soundcards
@@schlausprecher3361 thanks. I use reaper but I am not able to get my multi track on Mac computer. Any help?
@@adeagboemmanuel8775 Nope, sorry. I have never used the Wing. I can only speak from experience, that Mac usually doesn't require USB drivers. Does the Wing show up in reaper's audio settings? What about in the Mac's "Audio Midi settings"?
@@schlausprecher3361 wingvshows up in the midi
Can you use this with GarageBand instead of Ableton?
yes any daw should work
GarageBand has a couple of limitations which might make it very difficult or even impossible to use for this scenario (very limited routing, no mixer view afaik, sample rate limitations, ...). In our case we had to use a different DAW for broadcast mixing (Logic Pro).
You don’t use the Luke Hendrickson template anymore?
Feel like they made some small modifications to Luke's template and selling it as their own. Kinda sketchy.
@@davidlee6280 Adam, a member of our team and experienced audio engineer built the template from scratch. We are not selling the templates, we are selling a series of training videos that comes with a template.
You didn't talk about Mastering?
Essentially using intentional amounts of multiband or regular compression, limiting, and perhaps some presence/exciter and stereo-field processing type of plugins on the stereo output. I think more importantly, is targeting a specific broadcast loudness (in LUFS) to have a consistent loudness throughout your service, and so your stream isn't quieter or obnoxiously louder than the next or previous video/music they were listening to. I believe -16 LUFS is the youtube standard.
i'm sorry i let you down kramer
@@Churchfront Im crying myself to sleep tonight :)))))
An x32 compact is only $1500 on sweetwater. I don't see how this setup makes any sense at all. Once you include the cost of a presonus fader controller, you're well over the cost of a console. The console will be a lot more reliable than any DAW will be. You can't accidentally CMD+Q out of a console. I don't recommend anybody ever run a DAW for a live mix. Any console will invariably be more reliable.
It's pronounced tem-PLETS. Not ten plates. ;) Thanks for this though. I'm definitely looking towards figuring this kind of system out. Our mixer just isn't great for this sort of set up. Definitely need to move into the dante/midi realm with our audio.
temPLATES
To much talking and no visuals
Trying to pay attention but your crooked hat is screaming at me.
HA
Jake: A presentation time. No need to keep your hands moving and gesturing all the time. That creates visual content that only distracts from what you're saying and showing.
I don’t agree. Jake is the man.
Actually I like gesture communication versus the trained no movement presentation you are talking about! It must be a personality preference.
@@TonySammond it has nothing to do with Jake being "the man" or not. I like Jake. The content is good. He would be MORE "the MAN" if he used his has less often. Using gestures for the big things (not everything) would make the big things bigger.
@@KERIFIS7 Did I say "no movement"? Nope. Read my comment. Gesturing on an as needed basis would make the message better. Versus almost non stop gesturing. Gestures are good.... when used effectively. Gesturing all the time is like putting pepper on everything.