For those still asking why Ab melodic minor works over G7 altered chord: G7 altered is the 7th mode of Ab melodic minor and as such contains all the possible altered notes (b5, #5, b9, #9).
Pat Martino talks about the Dimm6 relationships pretty extensively in his TrueFire course. Once I got hip to Barry, it all started to come together for me. I'm glad that you're talking about this connection. Thank you, sir!
Even in Pat's earlier instructional videos, Creative Force, and Quantum Guitar, it appears that perhaps he had--either directly or indirectly--absorbed much of the ideas that Barry shared with us. I definitely see the parallels about how they view music theory, harmony, relationships, etc.
yeah ，I find it in truefire courses too.Thinking I just too stupid compare to guys like pat😂But feel great that theses masters all think the same ideas，like this idea is key to jazz.
@@Cambodia69 if my memory is OK，I think pat said that he was staring at guitar，and think about relationship how the string put together in interval.Then he come up with that guitar is a diminished instrument ，finally he organize this system.Anyway，this whole think make me feel I am not a very intellectual human being😂
Don't know Martino's ideas, but minor 7-flat 5 can be another way of expressing a minor 6 chord, and a half-diminished chord is only one note different from a fully diminished chord. You can play diminished ideas over a half-diminished chord. Is that the kind of thing Martino was talking about?
Man I was just wondering today how Barry’s system could apply to altered chords and then I stumbled upon your vid! Your explanation was perfect. Thank you 🙏
Great video - I'd never looked at it this way (raising each note of the dim to get the related minor 6th chords). I've been shown the "tritone's minor" approach - just as you can use the minor on the 5th (Dm6 in the case of G7) you can also go a step further with that and use the minor on the tritone's 5th - so the tritone of G is Db, meaning the minor on the 5th of Db7 is Ab. That is a nice way to remember it, but this is just as good and underlines the aspect of family which is so important with BH.
What a beautiful video!! I think the WHY gives you that extra motivational boost when practicing (or at least it does for me)... because you know that that the effort is part of a much bigger picture. Barry crated an amazing system and you are really doing a great job as a teacher !!!
Great video!!! I've been trying to make second nature out of the Barri Harris method, and ypu just helped me conect a lot of dots. Now is time to practice. Thank you 🙏
the diminished family is genius explanation and concept overall, it really is. But seeing it from the melodic minor perspective there is also a why which is also beautiful and makes perfect sense. And I also find it simpler in a way. So, in the 7th degree of the scale you find a m7b5 chord. Its extensions are b9, b11 and b13. Since that b11 can be spelled as a major 3rd, is only natural ppl would start swapping the gender of the chord from minor to major and re-spell the b3 to #9. There you have a dominant 7 on the 7th degree of the melodic minor scale. But why altered? Well, because things tend to be compared to the major scale. The V7 chord from a major key is V13 (9, 11 and 13). Comparing that to the new VII7alt from the melodic minor, you will have now b9, #9, b5 and #5 (the b13 enharmonized). And there are your alterations from the classic V7. Isn't it beautiful? At least, I believe so. But Barry's view is just genius.. opens up a lot more possibilities, just brilliant.. where the melodic minor 7alt just happens to be a part of it.. love your channel btw... is keeping me busy.. very busy I must say. Cheers man!
He is so right on...this is kinda how I always related it,...take an A diminished, it has a flat 5 which is Eb, raise that 5th and you get m6, Am6 and it’s then also D9,..these are cool to use as subs and interchange chord tones, or the arpeggios
This is the way I think about music too, although it doesn't necessarily make you a better musician without lots of hard work :) I found Barry Harris and was amazed he thinks in a similar way - not many people do. There is a way to connect all the usual dots, but you have to think beyond keys and fixed 7 note scales and modes and get to the fundamental ideas of how harmony works. There is an underlying pattern to it all, and most traditional musical theory does a poor job of revealing it. To understand eg.. C major, start with a chromatic cycle with Ab at the top, as it's a lot to do with ratios, math, geometry and golden symmetry - and Ab is the golden ratio / symmetry of the frequency of middle C (256Hz). What is the major scale - or any scale? why a triad? why assonance and dissonance? First step is to think in pairs and not in singular abstractions like the right note, or even a scale of them. Harmony is all about the relationship and balance / ratio between either similar or non similar sounds (assonance and dissonance) , and you have to get the math and alignment of the fundamental resonant harmonic pairs right first before you start to experiment by changing the shape of the geometry (the axes are the major and minor dominants tritones on the vertical and horizontal). The first steps are from the symmetrically balanced interval - the tritone, altering this yields the perfect 4th and 5th, minor/major 6ths and 3rds etc. etc., then the triads, central augmented (60 deg equilateral triangle) yielding the major and minor triads etc. etc. then the symmetric tetrad - the diminished at 45/90deg, giving the doms and m6s etc etc. expanding out to 8 note harmonic major shapes and beyond. Coltrane did this all the way to 12 note geometries, and Pythagoras understood this way of doing things also. The Christian philosophy that came after Pythagoras has brainwashed us all into thinking one dimensionally, and to rely on a system, to obey the root, to think in a framework that encompasses the 'right way' and structure for doing things, pushing evil, chaos and dissonance out beyond the accepted framework. When, all the time it is the interplay between assonance and dissonance, and the experimentation from a basic duality of values that is expanding and evolving infinitely into the universe and our consciousness.
Hello! I find this all very interesting; would you plz give me a reading recommendation? I’d love to be able to understand this better and I know there are a lot of resources but just wondering if you could point me towards one that you think lays out this information clearly. Thanks!!
4 Dominants Chords, 4 Minor 6 Chords. One pair (Dominant-Minor 6 of the original chord) has no altered tones so the other three pairs provide those. Might be a good idea to write out what each family members altered tones are on what the diminished sequences are.
I love this. Also playing a m(maj13) instead of just a m6 is beautiful. Like 4x3443. Which can be perceived as many different chords and sounds depending on the inversion
2:58 I discovered this while experimenting with the dominant from diminished technique. I referred to the minor 6's as the enharmonic minor 7 b5's instead. It seemed to make more sense as I could see the diminished nature of the chord easier like that... I'll switch my thinking temporarily to the minor 6 concept in order to broaden my horizons... Thank you!
So feel free to play your normal altered dominant scale with every alteration, but understand that it's perfectly reasonable to make it an 8 note scale by just adding the natural 5th back to it. It is fun to think of a 5 as a color tone for once.
chord scale theory does this with G7susb9 too. they'll say to play G phrygian. since studying with barry its been making more sense to me to play f-6 dim. whats really pretty is moving ab-6 to f-6 to d-6 as a G7, neighbours and all. anyhow thanks for sharing this knowledge ~~
What's really cool about this theory of Barry Harris's is that it shows you how to bridge between modes and scales using movement from diminished to augmented and back to diminished chords into other augmented and so forth. Any given diminished chord can pivot into numerous harmonic minor scales, which contain augmented scales that are shared by other altered scales... And any of these can resolve diatonically...
Hey man, love the stuff. I get the Dm6, Fm6 and Abm6 alterations but don't quite understand how Bm6 fits in as we then have an F# in the chord which would be the maj7 of G. So we have the 3rd, 5th and b9 of G7 but also a maj7th? Obviously it's not important to name the degrees in relation to G7 but I can't get it to sound convincing using the Bm6 diminished as a sub for G7, whereas the other three family members I can.
Thank you, it is very interesting and beautiful sound. I was reading that the melodic minor scale (in your example it would be the G Lydian Dominant) comes from the reorganized overtones series and therefore it is made up of consonant notes. I would love to know your thoughts on this and/or watch a video from you. Thank you again for your so appreciated videos.
Actually in his example referencing altered dominants we'd (typically, outside of Barry's view) be thinking the altered scale, or the 7th mode of Melodic minor. G Lydian dominant would include a #4/b5 and would only cover that b5 alteration without a b/#9 or #5 involved.
Damn, i'm a year late. Thanks a lot for this video! Although there's something i didn't get, at the end, around 8 minut, you talk about de G9 with the note A, saying that it comes from the Dm6 (i agree on that of course), but the 6th diminished scale you play is Ab, so Ab Bb Cb Db Eb E F G Ab... Where's the A?
So instead of either Ab melodic minor or harmonic minor over G7 (G altered scale) play Abm6-diminished scale which contains both the harmonic and melodic minor. Nicely explained. Thank you.
What about the note Enthat belongs to same dimished chords family but doesnt express the altered sound in G7,being E natural the 13 Great videos ,thank you
Am I missing a trick, or does raising the F to F# get really funny in this example? I'm hip to the family of dominants, and 3 of the minors sound really great too (Dmin6, Fmin6, Abmin6 are all killer here) but that Bmin6 is *o u t* sounding. Like "bring it back inside before it gets cold" out sounding. Is it just a no-op or is there a clear example for using it?
could you make a video where you go through combining said family members in order to create lines and such? i understand the theory behind it but find it hard to 'hear' this approach.
I love how Charlie just tritone the dominant by playing Ab-7 Db7 over G7, without a G haha, and why not, because the bass player is already playing the G so why not playing a Gb and do a movement to the G... But the diminished scale (7b9) is indeed the greatest scale because it gives you so many options. Personnaly, i use more the altered when resolving to major, and the diminished when resolving to minor (because of the 6 or b6 movement). B major is also a great option for G7, it just gives you 7 notes to go up to resolve to C.
When you play Abminor6--can you also play the 4 note arpeggios as well--mixing the minor with the diminished? IE, Abm6/Bb dim and it's inversions? Could you do one more video, showing how to use Abminor6 dim resolving to Cminor6 or Cmajor6? Whenever I practice "altered" lines, I have to hear them against their destination--to hear the movement toward a resolution. I think that's the issue with "just play this scale over this chord." As Barry said, we play movements. Same for linear playing. So a video putting it into a context could help (even though there are many instances of unresolved altered chords in more modern charts)
@Jeff Taylor I have a bunch of TILFBH's videos in a playlist. Love the lines. Been studying the material with another fellow guitarist and close friend of Barry Harris and loving every minute of it. All about those movements. I gotta dig deeper into BillGrahamMusic--good rec!
And when you PIVOT you're implying you want the (same) chord to now come from an alternate (one of the other 2 remaining) diminished chords. so it's cool. 3d
We all know the 7th mode of melodic minor is altered - 1 b2 #2 3 b5 #5 b7 (all the altered notes) I don't see why you're saying you don't understand where the logic comes from ny thinking of melodic minor on the b2/altered on the 1 of an altered dominant chord. It is the altered scale, it gives us the altered notes. That is the why. Sure, I like Barry's method as well, and thank you for your videos, they are all great. I just disagree here.
I think you didn’t quite get the concept. Refer to 👉🏾 4:25 Just thinking melodic minor and it’s modes doesn’t tell you why it works and where everything is coming from and why it works. That’s why the logic breaks. So for instance, the flat 9 or sharp 9, why do they work has to do with where they come from which points to family of 4 dominants. Just knowing Melodic minor and it’s modes wont tell you that. Like you say, “it is the altered scale that gives us the altered notes”… that doesn’t tell us why the altered scale gives us those altered notes. It also doesn’t tell us why we’re using the altered scale in the first place. On the other hand, Barry’s creation narrative and the theory of family of dominants tells us how these chords are interlinked and why they work together. This is why we know the altered scale works on the dominant because it plays with family.
So it ends up being Altered scale with one extra chromatic note. The "Why" question's answer of Altered is simply because it has al the atered options, that's why. No need to go more complicated if you want to improvise over altered dominants. Barry's answer to the "Why" leads to the same result, apart fom that extra note but that's just a chromatic. I think this lesson overcomplicates and theorizes a bit too much. It's all correct and intersting but I won't use this in my lessons. With all respect of course 😉
The “why” for the ascending melodic minor could be the fact that it’s the min 6th up a fifth for dominant chord a tritone away. Also, using Bmi6 on G7 doesn’t fit. The F# clashes with the F natural in G7.
I don't know if I'm getting how some of these relate to the altered sound, maybe I missed something crucial but I can't piece it together. The dominant chords (Db-E-Bb) make perfect sense but the min6's, well: -Abmin6 sounds great, arpeggiating gives you b9-3-#5-b7 of G and obviously sounds great sitting over the change, it's a very "normal" thing to hear through in the context. -Dmin6 over G7alt yields a 3-5-b7-9 and falls flat over the changes, there's no way I can find to make that work over an altered sound, because it's just a rootless G7 with clash everywhere that doesn't relate to the altered sound. -Fmin6, I'm left with b7-b9-4-5 and the 4 just kills it. The 5 I can handle because if I treat it like a Barry person that 5 is just a chromatic passing tone, it's still not very hip. -Bmin6 I get 3-5-nat7-b9 and same problem again, it just doesn't land, especially the nat7, it's utterly crooked. And these are all in single note, purely arpeggiated contexts, it's even worse when you think of chordal stuff. There's absolutely no way I'd be caught dead playing a Bmin6 inversion over a piano player comping a G7alt, I'd get death stares it sounds so horrid, he's gonna be altering the 5 if he uses it at all and he's most certainly not gonna touch that natural 7 with a ten foot pole in comps. I don't consider much to be "wrong" in playing but that is definitely wrong. The large point is I can't "think" Dmin6 over G Altered, it doesn't want to gel, not like I can Abmin6 because I'm highlighting chord tones. I really tried to get it, I re-watched again and again, wrote a nearly full A4 sheet out extrapolating trying to nut it out from top to bottom but the application of this one is just lost on me.
I don't think the system tells you why. Why is a meaningless question. The system gives you context by making more connections, instead of more a fragmented knowledge uproach. Ultimately, you can find all scales by simply generating all permutations 1 to 7. Its 101 in combinatorics, math. When you have all permutations, you can see that a tiny percentage of your result contains the scales we know and most of it would need to be thrown away because it doesn't sound good but some of it would be useful. So, to answer on the question why a melodic minor up a half step. Because it contains the chord tones. You can keep the chord tones as a shell and then generate the permutations on the other notes and you will come up with all scales available for that chord.
A simplistic take away from this for me is that it adds the #5 and 6th on the altered dominant chord. That is the E flat and the E natural on a G7 chord. And so using the A flat minor 6 diminished scale can be used instead of the A flat blues diminished scale or A flat melodic minor scale. An interesting new idea and perspective.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
For those still asking why Ab melodic minor works over G7 altered chord: G7 altered is the 7th mode of Ab melodic minor and as such contains all the possible altered notes (b5, #5, b9, #9).
Pat Martino talks about the Dimm6 relationships pretty extensively in his TrueFire course. Once I got hip to Barry, it all started to come together for me. I'm glad that you're talking about this connection. Thank you, sir!
Even in Pat's earlier instructional videos, Creative Force, and Quantum Guitar, it appears that perhaps he had--either directly or indirectly--absorbed much of the ideas that Barry shared with us. I definitely see the parallels about how they view music theory, harmony, relationships, etc.
Pat’s ideas are amazing but sometimes he doesn’t explain so clear, but this channel is really amazing.
yeah ，I find it in truefire courses too.Thinking I just too stupid compare to guys like pat😂But feel great that theses masters all think the same ideas，like this idea is key to jazz.
@@Cambodia69 if my memory is OK，I think pat said that he was staring at guitar，and think about relationship how the string put together in interval.Then he come up with that guitar is a diminished instrument ，finally he organize this system.Anyway，this whole think make me feel I am not a very intellectual human being😂
Don't know Martino's ideas, but minor 7-flat 5 can be another way of expressing a minor 6 chord, and a half-diminished chord is only one note different from a fully diminished chord. You can play diminished ideas over a half-diminished chord. Is that the kind of thing Martino was talking about?
Just wonderful, brother. This is so important and you share it in such a clear way
It's really at the core of "scales don't come from chords, chords come from scales"
This is fantastic! The "why" is the most important thing for most people when it comes to learning.
Hi Chris, Thank you so much for your insights on the why family matters (112) 🙂 Great Peter Kuijpers (Netherlands)
Thanks so much for this. Bolt from the blue and universe has opened up.
Man I was just wondering today how Barry’s system could apply to altered chords and then I stumbled upon your vid! Your explanation was perfect. Thank you 🙏
😂😂😂😂😂😂 divine!❤
Excellent, insightful video. I'll be watching more. 👍
Great video - I'd never looked at it this way (raising each note of the dim to get the related minor 6th chords). I've been shown the "tritone's minor" approach - just as you can use the minor on the 5th (Dm6 in the case of G7) you can also go a step further with that and use the minor on the tritone's 5th - so the tritone of G is Db, meaning the minor on the 5th of Db7 is Ab. That is a nice way to remember it, but this is just as good and underlines the aspect of family which is so important with BH.
You are the shit. Straight up. Thank you
Such a powerful, but simple concept Chris. It unlocked so much for me when I learned it. Cheers.
You’ve outdone yourself with this one. Barry was truly a genius in unlocking the whys. Thanks for sharing.
What a beautiful video!! I think the WHY gives you that extra motivational boost when practicing (or at least it does for me)... because you know that that the effort is part of a much bigger picture. Barry crated an amazing system and you are really doing a great job as a teacher !!!
Great video!!! I've been trying to make second nature out of the Barri Harris method, and ypu just helped me conect a lot of dots. Now is time to practice. Thank you 🙏
This is a great explanation of thinking of families instead of altered. Always enjoy your videos. Happy practicing!!!!
the diminished family is genius explanation and concept overall, it really is. But seeing it from the melodic minor perspective there is also a why which is also beautiful and makes perfect sense. And I also find it simpler in a way. So, in the 7th degree of the scale you find a m7b5 chord. Its extensions are b9, b11 and b13. Since that b11 can be spelled as a major 3rd, is only natural ppl would start swapping the gender of the chord from minor to major and re-spell the b3 to #9. There you have a dominant 7 on the 7th degree of the melodic minor scale. But why altered? Well, because things tend to be compared to the major scale. The V7 chord from a major key is V13 (9, 11 and 13). Comparing that to the new VII7alt from the melodic minor, you will have now b9, #9, b5 and #5 (the b13 enharmonized). And there are your alterations from the classic V7. Isn't it beautiful? At least, I believe so.
But Barry's view is just genius.. opens up a lot more possibilities, just brilliant.. where the melodic minor 7alt just happens to be a part of it.. love your channel btw... is keeping me busy.. very busy I must say. Cheers man!
Barry had the best way of explaining this stuff. Great stuff as usual Chris
He is so right on...this is kinda how I always related it,...take an A diminished, it has a flat 5 which is Eb, raise that 5th and you get m6, Am6 and it’s then also D9,..these are cool to use as subs and interchange chord tones, or the arpeggios
Over what, G7alt? Or are you just referring of the chord superimposition thing separate from the whole altered concept he's covering in the video?
Awesome stuff. Jazz is a lifelong learning endeavor and your lessons (along with so many others!) are invaluable. Thank you!
This is the way I think about music too, although it doesn't necessarily make you a better musician without lots of hard work :) I found Barry Harris and was amazed he thinks in a similar way - not many people do. There is a way to connect all the usual dots, but you have to think beyond keys and fixed 7 note scales and modes and get to the fundamental ideas of how harmony works. There is an underlying pattern to it all, and most traditional musical theory does a poor job of revealing it.
To understand eg.. C major, start with a chromatic cycle with Ab at the top, as it's a lot to do with ratios, math, geometry and golden symmetry - and Ab is the golden ratio / symmetry of the frequency of middle C (256Hz). What is the major scale - or any scale? why a triad? why assonance and dissonance? First step is to think in pairs and not in singular abstractions like the right note, or even a scale of them. Harmony is all about the relationship and balance / ratio between either similar or non similar sounds (assonance and dissonance) , and you have to get the math and alignment of the fundamental resonant harmonic pairs right first before you start to experiment by changing the shape of the geometry (the axes are the major and minor dominants tritones on the vertical and horizontal).
The first steps are from the symmetrically balanced interval - the tritone, altering this yields the perfect 4th and 5th, minor/major 6ths and 3rds etc. etc., then the triads, central augmented (60 deg equilateral triangle) yielding the major and minor triads etc. etc. then the symmetric tetrad - the diminished at 45/90deg, giving the doms and m6s etc etc. expanding out to 8 note harmonic major shapes and beyond. Coltrane did this all the way to 12 note geometries, and Pythagoras understood this way of doing things also.
The Christian philosophy that came after Pythagoras has brainwashed us all into thinking one dimensionally, and to rely on a system, to obey the root, to think in a framework that encompasses the 'right way' and structure for doing things, pushing evil, chaos and dissonance out beyond the accepted framework. When, all the time it is the interplay between assonance and dissonance, and the experimentation from a basic duality of values that is expanding and evolving infinitely into the universe and our consciousness.
Yeah, what he said ^!
@@danosullivanmusic 🤣
Hello! I find this all very interesting; would you plz give me a reading recommendation? I’d love to be able to understand this better and I know there are a lot of resources but just wondering if you could point me towards one that you think lays out this information clearly. Thanks!!
4 Dominants Chords, 4 Minor 6 Chords. One pair (Dominant-Minor 6 of the original chord) has no altered tones so the other three pairs provide those. Might be a good idea to write out what each family members altered tones are on what the diminished sequences are.
I love this. Also playing a m(maj13) instead of just a m6 is beautiful. Like 4x3443. Which can be perceived as many different chords and sounds depending on the inversion
2:58 I discovered this while experimenting with the dominant from diminished technique. I referred to the minor 6's as the enharmonic minor 7 b5's instead. It seemed to make more sense as I could see the diminished nature of the chord easier like that...
I'll switch my thinking temporarily to the minor 6 concept in order to broaden my horizons...
Thank you!
So feel free to play your normal altered dominant scale with every alteration, but understand that it's perfectly reasonable to make it an 8 note scale by just adding the natural 5th back to it. It is fun to think of a 5 as a color tone for once.
Just frikkin amazing stuff
chord scale theory does this with G7susb9 too. they'll say to play G phrygian. since studying with barry its been making more sense to me to play f-6 dim. whats really pretty is moving ab-6 to f-6 to d-6 as a G7, neighbours and all. anyhow thanks for sharing this knowledge ~~
What's really cool about this theory of Barry Harris's is that it shows you how to bridge between modes and scales using movement from diminished to augmented and back to diminished chords into other augmented and so forth. Any given diminished chord can pivot into numerous harmonic minor scales, which contain augmented scales that are shared by other altered scales... And any of these can resolve diatonically...
If I remember correctly these are Neopolitan chords in classical theory??
Thanks man for this, recently came to this understanding 💯
always clear !! thank you for sharing !!
Hey man, love the stuff. I get the Dm6, Fm6 and Abm6 alterations but don't quite understand how Bm6 fits in as we then have an F# in the chord which would be the maj7 of G. So we have the 3rd, 5th and b9 of G7 but also a maj7th? Obviously it's not important to name the degrees in relation to G7 but I can't get it to sound convincing using the Bm6 diminished as a sub for G7, whereas the other three family members I can.
Thanks for all that you do!
Awesome!!
good stuff
Thank you, it is very interesting and beautiful sound. I was reading that the melodic minor scale (in your example it would be the G Lydian Dominant) comes from the reorganized overtones series and therefore it is made up of consonant notes. I would love to know your thoughts on this and/or watch a video from you. Thank you again for your so appreciated videos.
@Jeff Taylor Thank you Jeff for the book reference. The one I am reading is: John Powell “How Music Works”.
Actually in his example referencing altered dominants we'd (typically, outside of Barry's view) be thinking the altered scale, or the 7th mode of Melodic minor. G Lydian dominant would include a #4/b5 and would only cover that b5 alteration without a b/#9 or #5 involved.
Interesting! Is there book or other material I can learn this. Your video is great. But went very fast for me.
a great guitarist !! th-cam.com/video/Ksm7bTgqg2A/w-d-xo.html
Can we play G7 6th dim ? (G/A/B/C/D/Eb/F/F#) ? in this case, it is an another family ? or I don't understood ? :)
Damn, i'm a year late. Thanks a lot for this video! Although there's something i didn't get, at the end, around 8 minut, you talk about de G9 with the note A, saying that it comes from the Dm6 (i agree on that of course), but the 6th diminished scale you play is Ab, so Ab Bb Cb Db Eb E F G Ab... Where's the A?
Hello Chris, what episode do you cover the chord families
Brilliant
So instead of either Ab melodic minor or harmonic minor over G7 (G altered scale) play Abm6-diminished scale which contains both the harmonic and melodic minor. Nicely explained. Thank you.
What about the note Enthat belongs to same dimished chords family but doesnt express the altered sound in G7,being E natural the 13
Great videos ,thank you
When you play say Bmin 6th diminished do you tend to avoid the F# over G7 alt chord? or treat it just as a chromatic below root?
Am I missing a trick, or does raising the F to F# get really funny in this example? I'm hip to the family of dominants, and 3 of the minors sound really great too (Dmin6, Fmin6, Abmin6 are all killer here) but that Bmin6 is *o u t* sounding. Like "bring it back inside before it gets cold" out sounding. Is it just a no-op or is there a clear example for using it?
could you make a video where you go through combining said family members in order to create lines and such? i understand the theory behind it but find it hard to 'hear' this approach.
Hi Max,
I would recommend to listen to Pasquale Grasso, you'll find everything there explicitly. ✌️
Does It works with G7 that resolve to cmin as well?
I love how Charlie just tritone the dominant by playing Ab-7 Db7 over G7, without a G haha, and why not, because the bass player is already playing the G so why not playing a Gb and do a movement to the G... But the diminished scale (7b9) is indeed the greatest scale because it gives you so many options. Personnaly, i use more the altered when resolving to major, and the diminished when resolving to minor (because of the 6 or b6 movement). B major is also a great option for G7, it just gives you 7 notes to go up to resolve to C.
When you play Abminor6--can you also play the 4 note arpeggios as well--mixing the minor with the diminished? IE, Abm6/Bb dim and it's inversions? Could you do one more video, showing how to use Abminor6 dim resolving to Cminor6 or Cmajor6? Whenever I practice "altered" lines, I have to hear them against their destination--to hear the movement toward a resolution. I think that's the issue with "just play this scale over this chord." As Barry said, we play movements. Same for linear playing. So a video putting it into a context could help (even though there are many instances of unresolved altered chords in more modern charts)
@Jeff Taylor I have a bunch of TILFBH's videos in a playlist. Love the lines. Been studying the material with another fellow guitarist and close friend of Barry Harris and loving every minute of it. All about those movements. I gotta dig deeper into BillGrahamMusic--good rec!
if you play Bm6 on a G7 chord wouldn't you have an F# on the 7th of G7(which is the note F)? isn't it gonna clash?
Raising any note of the dim7 also makes it a min7b5.
He talks about it at 2:53
Half diminished is same as minor 6
And when you PIVOT you're implying you want the (same) chord to now come from an alternate (one of the other 2 remaining) diminished chords. so it's cool. 3d
We all know the 7th mode of melodic minor is altered - 1 b2 #2 3 b5 #5 b7 (all the altered notes)
I don't see why you're saying you don't understand where the logic comes from ny thinking of melodic minor on the b2/altered on the 1 of an altered dominant chord. It is the altered scale, it gives us the altered notes. That is the why.
Sure, I like Barry's method as well, and thank you for your videos, they are all great. I just disagree here.
I think you didn’t quite get the concept. Refer to 👉🏾 4:25
Just thinking melodic minor and it’s modes doesn’t tell you why it works and where everything is coming from and why it works. That’s why the logic breaks.
So for instance, the flat 9 or sharp 9, why do they work has to do with where they come from which points to family of 4 dominants. Just knowing Melodic minor and it’s modes wont tell you that. Like you say, “it is the altered scale that gives us the altered notes”… that doesn’t tell us why the altered scale gives us those altered notes. It also doesn’t tell us why we’re using the altered scale in the first place.
On the other hand, Barry’s creation narrative and the theory of family of dominants tells us how these chords are interlinked and why they work together. This is why we know the altered scale works on the dominant because it plays with family.
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Bm6 has an F# .. how can you play that over a G7?
My man, you went to church
So it ends up being Altered scale with one extra chromatic note. The "Why" question's answer of Altered is simply because it has al the atered options, that's why. No need to go more complicated if you want to improvise over altered dominants. Barry's answer to the "Why" leads to the same result, apart fom that extra note but that's just a chromatic. I think this lesson overcomplicates and theorizes a bit too much. It's all correct and intersting but I won't use this in my lessons. With all respect of course 😉
The “why” for the ascending melodic minor could be the fact that it’s the min 6th up a fifth for dominant chord a tritone away.
Also, using Bmi6 on G7 doesn’t fit. The F# clashes with the F natural in G7.
I don't know if I'm getting how some of these relate to the altered sound, maybe I missed something crucial but I can't piece it together. The dominant chords (Db-E-Bb) make perfect sense but the min6's, well:
-Abmin6 sounds great, arpeggiating gives you b9-3-#5-b7 of G and obviously sounds great sitting over the change, it's a very "normal" thing to hear through in the context.
-Dmin6 over G7alt yields a 3-5-b7-9 and falls flat over the changes, there's no way I can find to make that work over an altered sound, because it's just a rootless G7 with clash everywhere that doesn't relate to the altered sound.
-Fmin6, I'm left with b7-b9-4-5 and the 4 just kills it. The 5 I can handle because if I treat it like a Barry person that 5 is just a chromatic passing tone, it's still not very hip.
-Bmin6 I get 3-5-nat7-b9 and same problem again, it just doesn't land, especially the nat7, it's utterly crooked.
And these are all in single note, purely arpeggiated contexts, it's even worse when you think of chordal stuff. There's absolutely no way I'd be caught dead playing a Bmin6 inversion over a piano player comping a G7alt, I'd get death stares it sounds so horrid, he's gonna be altering the 5 if he uses it at all and he's most certainly not gonna touch that natural 7 with a ten foot pole in comps. I don't consider much to be "wrong" in playing but that is definitely wrong. The large point is I can't "think" Dmin6 over G Altered, it doesn't want to gel, not like I can Abmin6 because I'm highlighting chord tones. I really tried to get it, I re-watched again and again, wrote a nearly full A4 sheet out extrapolating trying to nut it out from top to bottom but the application of this one is just lost on me.
You obviously know your stuff….
but I’ve only watched less than half and I have a headache
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I don't think the system tells you why. Why is a meaningless question.
The system gives you context by making more connections, instead of more a fragmented knowledge uproach.
Ultimately, you can find all scales by simply generating all permutations 1 to 7. Its 101 in combinatorics, math.
When you have all permutations, you can see that a tiny percentage of your result contains the scales we know and most of it would need to be thrown away because it doesn't sound good but some of it would be useful. So, to answer on the question why a melodic minor up a half step. Because it contains the chord tones. You can keep the chord tones as a shell and then generate the permutations on the other notes and you will come up with all scales available for that chord.
A simplistic take away from this for me is that it adds the #5 and 6th on the altered dominant chord. That is the E flat and the E natural on a G7 chord. And so using the A flat minor 6 diminished scale can be used instead of the A flat blues diminished scale or A flat melodic minor scale. An interesting new idea and perspective.