Fazioli F212 vs Steinway model B - Grandpiano trip to Europe - I bought it!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ต.ค. 2022
- Follow me on a trip in Europe when I buy my new grand piano. I was looking for a Steinway model B or a Fazioli F212, they are the same size instruments.
Please use your headphones or good speakers so you can hear the difference between the different instruments.
Debussy - Arabesque no.1
3:17 Fazioli F212 from 2021
3:37 Fazioli F212 from 2022
3:54 Steinway & Sons B 1974
4:22 Steinway & Sons B 1892
4:50 Steinway & Sons B 1898
5:28 Steinway & Sons B 1909 Makassar Edition
6:06 Steinway & Sons B 1960
6:28 Fazioli F278 from 2020
7:08 Fazioli F228 from 2022
Stendahl - Prelude in A major
8:12 Steinway & Sons B 1892
8:40 Steinway & Sons B 1909 Makassar Edition
9:09 Fazioli F278 from 2020
9:23 Steinway & Sons B 1960
9:44 Fazioli F212 from 2022
10:04 Steinway & Sons B 1898
10:27 Fazioli F228 from 2022
11:05 Fazioli F212 from 2021
Extra
11:35 Steinway & Sons B 1882
11:51 Steinway & Sons B 1904
I used a Sony a7S III and Sennheiser MKH8020 microphones, to a Zoom H6 for recording.
The sound is clean, no editing or plugins, just clean from the recordings.
Welcome to follow me on the tour :)
I was rooting for the Makassar! So gorgeous physically, but especially musically in bringing out subtle themes and tones. And it showed how very beautiful YOUR composition is. I applaud, also, your recording process - some of the most sonically engaging piano recordings I've heard - simply beautiful. Thank you!
Oh, thank you:)
My all-time favorite piece!
Wow, what a treat just to listen to you. Thank you very much. All the piano sound absolutely amazing.
Thank you Tommy 🤩😇
I love Fazioli, Every now and then I actually practice and perform on a Fazioli 278 in the local church, absolutely amazing instrument. But......there is just something magical about Steinway and the way it "sings", and those overtones...LOVE IT.
Thankyou for taking us on this wonderful voyage of adventure
I am glad the you where looking 🙏🙏
Fabulous video....I think they were all so outstanding. I LOVE the mid section of the Steinways and thought the 1890 version was so beautiful, as well as the one you chose. The Fazioli's - well there is nothing like them in the upper register they are so so pure. I honestly would love to have that dilemma in my life - Fazioli or Steinway....lol I am looking forward to hearing many fabulous recordings on your beautiful instrument. Congralulations.
Great Video, thank you for providing this content. Great audio and video, and certainly great playing. Looking forward to more of your videos!
Thank you :)
What fun! Thanks for sharing.
Thank you :)
Thank you so much!
Wonderful video! Its must have been an exciting journey. It's a beautiful instrument, both sound and look, you have chosen. Congratulations and thank you for sharing.
Thank you:) It was a journey I never will forget :)
I have 1931 Steinway A3 for almost 15 years now. All through those years the sound of the piano continue to slightly change. Luckily, I learn how to voice the hammer to my liking so I always have them to the way I prefer. Bottom line, you can learn how to voice your own piano perfectly to your liking. It saves a lot of time, money and you’ll be happy. Congrats!
Thank you. yes, I constantly practice intonation and it has taken a whole year to become one hundred percent friends with her and it will be a lifelong journey :)
Love that Makasar Steinway! Ot sounded lovely and was gorgeous to look at as well.
🤩🤩🤩😇😇
What a lovely video. Some difficult choices. I myself was leaning toward the piano you chose or one of the earlier Steinway. But the 2022 Fazioli was wonderful as well. Enjoy it. You play so well.
Thank you soo much:) I promise that was a headache for a while to choose, it was a long trip for me, and everything around that.. but a think I got the right instrument for the right money:)
Beautiful video!! I admire your approach to finding what sounds right for you! I was debating between Model D and B on Pianoteq 8 and honestly the B sounds more clean, close and direct to me. I am glad my research landed me on your video! I hope you are still in love with the Piano you purchased!!
wow, thank you 😇So you are a owner of a model B too:) I need to do lots of adjustments in my Steinway now. It didn't like the Swedish climate. So I am waiting on a couple of tools so I can start play on it soon.. I hope I can do a new video so I can show how I fix that:) The keys are very slow and hard, because the wood has swelled...
@@melkerstendahl Hmm I am sure you'll find a fix..! The funny part is that I inherited a 1943 Howard by Baldwin 5 foot "baby grand" last summer after I already had Pianoteq so I had the chance to feel the "real thing". I bought a piano repair book and watched a ton of tunning/restringing/voicing/action regulation, etc.. videos.. It is an exciting project..!! Waiting to see your resolution of the friction/tension issues of the swollen keys!
What a lovely video! My favourite two from just listening were the Fazioli 2021 and the Steinway 1974. I cannot deny though that your choice was splendid - well done, and good luck!
Thank you sooo much :)
Glad that you bought the piano of your choice! The Steinway was over 100 years old, but its condition looks amazing! I thought it was a newly built piano until I checked the description on your video.
Yes everything is new on it exept the basic instrument ☺️
Beautiful choice of instrument :) a little garden work was worth it haha!! 😆
Congrats on your piano. I've never tried a fazioli, but they look like amazing instruments. I just got my piano 1.5 years ago. After playing so many pianos I ended up getting a Kawai that I fell in love with.
Thank you:) I have never tried a Kawai, only old and broken ones. Do you have any recording on your Kawai?
When I heard the different pianos in the video, I spontaneously liked the sound of the Makassar piano best. It was warm, very full of character and vouminous. I would have taken it as well. Congratulations on this beautiful instrument!
Thank you, then we have the same taste :)
a very beauty in sound and look and the deliveriy looks professionell so wish you all the Best with your Instrument and by the Way a nice video👍🍀🍀🌹
Thank you Peter😇🤩
Debussy is always going to sound great on the flute-sounding Fazioli... I liked the 1960 Steinway, but the beautiful woman in the room, looked and sounded best! You made the right choice!👂 (Great mic placement, recording and flawless editing! Thank-you for the most enjoyable ride!)
Oh, thank you Paul!
Thank you for sharing your journey. To me, Steinway sound is like a warm hug. Great choice! German seller, Polish delivery men and a Swedish pianist. It looks like the entire EU was involved in this selection. 😉😁
Haha. Yes thats true. Good reflection 😂
I agree with the warm hug, the Fazioli it's more like a cold window forgotten opened during winter in Sacile 🤣
You put a lot of work into this video and I really enjoyed it, having gone on a similar journey last year. My main take away was how difficult it was to judge pianos because of the vagaries of their states of tune. An amazing instrument can sound terrible if it’s not tuned properly, whereas a shit piano doesn’t sound all that bad when it’s bang on in tune! Anyhow, amazing piano you procured and I wish you many happy years with it.
Yes lot of work but it is so fun to do 😇Yes welltuned pianos is the best, so for ten years ago I start to tune by myself. It takes around 100 instrument to tune and then you feel that you can do it by your self😇long way.. Thank you for watching 😊
@@melkerstendahl I had thought about wanting to learn that skill, but I have an excellent tuner! cheers.
@@melkerstendahl I tune my own grands as well. It would be interesting to learn your approach. I have found some blind tuners are best, but not all. By the way you are an excellent player. Your music suits my style. I'm into mellow, much like you.
I completely agree. Tuning and voicing gives a piano its personality and charm. And it's also a matter of personal preference, some like mellow sound while others prefer a bright singing tone. That said, the Fazioli's sound is wonderful.
I loved that first Fazioli (the one in the middle from 2021) - very creamy and delicate. If I had the money, I'd probably have stopped right there and told them to pack it! But even the slightly longer Fazioli sounded lovely, even though packed in that basement. Had a bit of brightness without sounding like glass. For the steinways, I liked the B from 1898, it had that mellow tone I like. It just seemed like the Faziolis were easier to play are were more responsive to the hand, which is what I'd need after some hand surgeries. Hope your injury recovered well by now.
Thanks for watching the video! I chose between the 1898 and the one I bought, because they were very similar in sound. And when you have to choose, it is very important that the mechanics match what you are used to. Fazioli is really super. But right then it was above my budget. Of course, I could have borrowed money, but the differences in sound are not above the price difference.
So I thought!
But it is possible if you want, to get the same feeling in the mechanics of a Steinway, but unfortunately there don't seem to be that many people who know how to get it exactly as you want, from what I have understood in retrospect. It is a profession that not many people can do. Hope you'll get better soon! My arm is fully recovered now, after the accident..
Fascinating to follow your journey; thank you for sharing. I have had two similar ones with uprights, not to the quality of piano you have bought, but journeys nonetheless. Iniitially through Yamahas, Kawais, Feurichs, Irmler and others before deciding upon a Ritmuller RS122, with a fantastic touch and sound that improved from brand new over the year I have had it. Subsequently through Schimmels, August Forsters, Petroff, Bluthner, Ronisch and Bechstein before deciding upon a Kayserburg KAM5. In my case, price was important, but the KAM5 is outstanding value for the sound it has. The most difficult thing for me was comparing sounds when the showrooms were so different with their acoustics, but touch was also important. Now I need to learn how to get the best out of my new piano.
Thank you for following me 🤩 it was not easy to choose an instrument. You have to take into account the acoustics as you write but also if the piano is out of tune and then you have to think about that and find an overview instead.
Congratulations! We bought a brand new Steinway B in 1988 for our daughter, with John Steinway’s signature on it. She had played it for 7 years and performed every year as winners, however she never touch it since she went to Carnegie Mellon in 1996 (she loves arts more) It is in an excellent condition, yearly tuned. It is available for buyers.
That's sounds fantastic, but maybe your daughter want to play later in her life?
Just saw this. Is it still for sale? If so, kindly let me know location and price
I love the "ping" in the treble range of the Steinway. I'm not aware of any other piano that has this characteristic.
I know what you mean, and Fazioli has something else, so I think is two different pianos:) It is so hard to explain..
Hi @melkerstendahl - if you add the following text to the description of this video, the chapters will show up on the timeline. This makes it easier to follow.
Thank you for sharing your trip, and congratulations on your new piano!
Debussy - Arabesque no.1
3:17 Fazioli F212 from 2021
3:37 Fazioli F212 from 2022
3:54 Steinway & Sons B 1974
4:22 Steinway & Sons B 1892
4:50 Steinway & Sons B 1898
5:28 Steinway & Sons B 1909 Makassar Edition
6:06 Steinway & Sons B 1960
6:28 Fazioli F278 from 2020
7:08 Fazioli F228 from 2022
Stendahl - Prelude in A major
8:12 Steinway & Sons B 1892
8:40 Steinway & Sons B 1909 Makassar Edition
9:09 Fazioli F278 from 2020
9:23 Steinway & Sons B 1960
9:44 Fazioli F212 from 2022
10:04 Steinway & Sons B 1898
10:27 Fazioli F228 from 2022
11:05 Fazioli F212 from 2021
Extra
11:35 Steinway & Sons B 1882
11:51 Steinway & Sons B 1904
Wow, thank you, for taking Your time!! Now I have change!! Soo good idea:)
I mostly like the sound of Fazioli.
I understand your decision perfectly. I went through a similar process myself, and ultimately settled on a vintage Steinway M 1945 with an original soundboard in excellent condition. While not all Steinway pianos are created equal, the right one can be truly magical. At first, it may not sound as "clean and sweet" as a fine Fazioli, but it offers something else entirely: the promise of everlasting joy. To each their own, but I believe the Steinway experience is akin to savoring a rich, dark chocolate (60% cocoa, to be precise) versus a very fine milk chocolate (Fazioli). Nothing wrong with a fine milk chocolate! I may be content with only two or three squares, but the dark one is simply too good to resist.
Haha! I love your comparison!!!
As I do both sorts of choco, too, ofcourse😅
When you describe it like that, everyone can understand how to look for a grand piano and everyone understands how to compare then. It's like art, different manufacturers, etc. Maybe not everyone likes electric cars, but you want a special sound or feeling :) I like your comparison :)
Great video! First of all, congrats on your purchase! So much fun and the dilemma is real! Good problem to have. As you went alone I was between 2 Steinways...with one Fazioli in third place. I agree that your music sound different than the Debussy on the same piano...But the piano should be picked by sound, not color or design, as you did...I have one question: What microphone set up do you use? Do you record on a mac or pc? Could you post the specs?
Thank you:) I used 2 Sennheiser MKH 8020 to a Zoom H6 in this case. After that I use a Mac with Logic Pro.. But in this case it was just a clean sound from the Zoom... I just used the limiter in Logic before I upload it to TH-cam..
I like the Fazioli F212 from 2021.
Me too 😇🤩
I play a Yamaha DGX-670 combined with Pianoteq Pro. I play the Yamaha CFX voice combined with a Hamburg D and Petrof Mistral from Pianoteq, Three voices sounding simultaneously. Honestly the sound is similar to the pianos you evaluated for only a cost of around $2,500.00 total. The pianos you played are all rather nice. The difference is probably mostly in the voicing of the hammers and probably the freshness of the strings. Unfortunately all will will deteriorate over time. But congratulations on a well thought out purchase that I'm sure you will be happy with.
I can understand you because I like the sound in the nordpiano and that sound amazing in some music. Like it very much! And you dont have too tune it every day when you do recordings..:)
@@melkerstendahl True enough, but. There's nothing like an acoustic piano.
@@benjaminsmith2287
Der Steinway, für den Sie sich letztlich entschieden haben, ist auch mir in diesem Video als besonderes Instrument aufgefallen.
Trotzdem gefällt mir FAZIOLI besser als Steinway. Ich suchte vor drei Jahren nach meinem Flügel und hatte eine Größe von 212 cm, die gerade noch in den Aufzug paßt, vor Augen.
Ich habe mir Steinways, Bösendorfer und einige andere angeschaut.
Besonders aufgefallen ist mir dabei ein ESTONIA L190. ESTONIA kann man durchaus als absoluten Geheimtipp betrachten. Schade, daß man die Instrumente in Europa kaum findet. Wäre nicht Corona mit den Reiseeinschränkungen dazwischen gekommen, wäre ich sicher nach Tallinn gereist, um mir einen Estonia Modell 210 ab Werk zu kaufen.
Aber verliebt habe ich mich dann in einen FAZIOLI F278. Mit Tränen in den Augen bin ich vom Händler nach Hause gefahren ...
Heute steht der F278 in einen 40 qm großen Wohnzimmer.
Und nein - dieser Raum ist nicht zu klein für dieses Instrument. Der F278 ist auch ein wunderbares Instrument für Kammermusik und Liedbegleitung, das nie zu laut wird und auf dem man wunderbare Piani erreichen kann.
Der F278 ist "mein Instrument"!
Aber die Wahl "seines Instrumentes" ist eine sehr individuelle und persönliche Entscheidung.
Deshalb mein Glückwunsch, daß auch Du "Dein" Instrument gefunden hast!
Congratulations with your F278.. wow!! My studio is smaller than your department so for me it was better I think to have a smaller instrument..I was thinking of a Yamaha S7 too but I think it ´s more soul in Fazioli or Steinway. Have you played on an Estonia now? What are you thinking about that?
I've done a fair bit of piano recording work with several music festivals and orchestras. I noticed that one of the first group (a Steinway) needed some work done.. (tuning not great...) That can get fixed, unless there is an issue with the harp. The Faz sounded superb. The Chosen instrument: Superb. Others ranged from ok to great. You made an excellent choice. A piano tech I worked with in the Florida festival in Sarasota totally rebuilt actions there. An amazing woman. I wish I could work with her more to learn. I was just the recordist there. (By the way, if you get the urge, there are some excellent Ribbon mikes available. I have a stereo Royer here, with a ribbon Preamp... makes the recordings 3 dimensional..)
How interesting to read what you have to say. Some piano technicians just say, I'm sorry, but your instrument can't be adjusted any more. You need to change.. But of course it's not like that, but everything can be adjusted on a grand piano. Apart from broken details etc. But you can't show any recording from your ribbons? Now I have a slightly different recording technique since last year, but I might be interested. Thanks for looking and thinking.
@@melkerstendahl I used the Royer Ribbon in the S curve about 1/2 way back in the piano... The piano was recorded separately from the mike that Frederick was wearing. The piano in this one was "what the church had available..." -- a Pearl from China. -- it was what the church could afford... th-cam.com/video/-1YXwo1UI0A/w-d-xo.htmlsi=O4UWncWvls8-46h1
@@melkerstendahl A quick note on the tech I worked with. She was one of the Steinway folk in New York... and in her bag of tricks, replaced things like hammers in the action... and did refreshes of the felts and so on during the tune up. During tune up, she replaced several strings that were almost ready to fail, and one of the keys failed. Just a thump when you hit it.. She had that working almost immediately for the performance that night.
@@melkerstendahl One other sample.... a different grand, but I don't remember the model. th-cam.com/video/-U-2wH1eey0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=fg_orAJnbpNssc-B
You play so beautifully, they all sound very fine! Being American, I hear New York Steinway pianos all the time, and only rarely Hamburg ones, which IMHO are superior.
I love the Fazioli sound, but that's really just based on recordings, as they are very scarce here. If I may ask, did you ever consider C. Bechstein, or Shigero Kawai?
One of the latter was "placed" with my orchestra, (to bring some attention to the brand, I think), and I thought it was very special, but it was not purchased.
Thank you! I have absolutely no idea about the New York model :) How exactly does it sounds. Hope I get the chance to compare sometime.
I have an old Steinway mod S at home, from before and when I was at university I was in charge of a Fazioli F212.
So that's why I chose those instruments. Because I know them I think:)
After this video there have been requests that I must try those instruments that you mention in another video.
Hope I get the chance to do it soon.
@@melkerstendahl Hello! My "take" on the N.Y. Steinway (Model D, at least) is that they are slightly more powerful, but "thicker" in sound, making them very good for Rachmaninoff, and other late romantic composers. But they don't have the clean, transparent treble of the Hamburg pianos, which are so wonderful for Mozart, Schubert, Schumann, etc.! Just my thoughts.
I'm just a (retired) orchestra violinist, but I love pianos, organs and harpsichords, and all the wonderful repertoire that keyboardists have to play!😁
@@EElgar1857 Thank you for explaining :) My plan in June, is to go to LA, so I must try an American model. Maybe I will play much thicker then:)
I love these instruments, but so far I was only satisfied with the Fazioli 212 from 2022; I think it is because tuning means much more to me than the sound of the individual tones. If a unisono has gone bad my ear stops. It is probably because I play violin and want to make the tone, create the tone. I can't accept what comes from the key if it is not as perfect as possible (meaning no tuning is ever perfect).
Yes and I thinking like you. I feel sick when I listening to bad tuned pianos🙈🙈 But when I getting older I have more tolerance with it💪😇
high five!
Wonderful. What a gentle and thoughtful way you have about you. I loved that piano too, as I did all the older Steinways. Please stop smoking your pipe ... it is VERY unhealthy .
Thank you :) I don´t smoke so much, only when it's a good weather.. haha
Thanks for sharing your journey. Could you share what song was being played in the background at minute 16+ ?
Thank you :) Yes, it is Bach English suite nr 2 in a-minor, very nice peace..
What brand and model of microphone did you use for the records ?
Your Steinway was I chosed.
Thank you:) I used Sennheiser MKH8020, that's omni mics.. Last year I used a Zoom H6, but now I have a Sounddevices mixpre10 device, and it is much better..
@@melkerstendahl thanks!
F212 2022 - top.
Yes, that one was top and I was totally new..
Steinway 1974 -Best sound
Yeah that first one the 74, sounded like the only good steinway of the lot imo, since the really older ones seemed to need bridge or board components replacement.. the faziolis were nice & clear tho, just not as richly blended as that one 1974 steiny ;)
Steinway pianos have an opaque sound and a messy bass that obscures any music that gets busy with fast complex multi register sounds (Rachmaninov, Prokofiew, Liszt). But for slow cantabile playing or impressionism music like in this video, it shines. If you listen to Valentina Lisitsa Koln concert on a Bosendorfer you'll think you are hearing Liszt music clealrly and translucently for the first time. On a modern steinway or anything post WW2 it's a mess of clutter metallic sound and hammer clomping sounds.
Yes, maybe it is, maybe the steinway doesn't quite keep up. I will listen on Valentina :)
Yes check out her Koln concert , the Liszt pieces, it's like hearing Liszt virtuso piano sound cleanly for the first time even at the most busy score texture everything i clear which was never the case on Steinway including golden age giants like Cziffra or Horrowitz because they were playing on Steinways.
@@ericastier1646 yes. Wow she is amazing. Never heard about her before 🙈 Yes, the Bösendorfer sounds different than the Steinway and it is exactly what you are writing. For big pieces like Liszt and Rach, I will choose a Bösen🤩
@@melkerstendahl Oh you watched, i hope you watched her Totentanze in the Koln concert, if not, that's a life worthy moment for any classical piano music fan. For me it was a revelation that i have never truly heard Liszt before and i've listen to all the greats for decades (all on Steinway). The sound of that Bosendorfer gave me chills. her pianism is on par with Rachmnaninov.
After watching that I can laugh at lesser pianists who we think a little too much of but aren't quite at this Listzian level. No shit, i think that performance of Totentanze would be on par with what LIszt would have sounded like. I'm getting chills hearing it. I can now understand why women in the audience fainted. And i will choose a Bosendorfer over a Steinway if i have that choice.
Spännande att se din resa!
Tack Hugo. Vad kul att du uppskattar:)
It seems the Fazioli it's quite richer in harmonics, but the sensation I had while trying it at the Milan showroom was not as pleasant as this recording. I personally didn't like it at all. The versatility and the elegance of a Steinway it's still the best option IMHO
It depends a bit on what you're used to practicing, I didn't like the Fazioli at all at first when I had it as a practice instrument at school, but after a while I really appreciated it and got used to it.
@@melkerstendahl getting used is the biggest part in my opinion. Almost 99% of the recordings are made on Steinways, almost 99% of the concerts are made on Steinways, so we perceive it as the best because it's the idea of "good sound" we all developed and got used to.
All of the Steinway pianos in this video that were made in the 1800s and early 1900s, including yours, have the wrong "Steinway & Sons" logos on the fall board. The "Steinway & Sons" logo from the 1800s and early 1900s were very ornate and fancy. When an antique piano is restored it is important to make it true to the time period it was built and historically accurate.
Yes. I know what you mean… but the instrument sounds ”new” again. Not the old sound.. Honest, I do not know what is right or wrong here:)
I am a piano technician in the USA. Could I ask you what needed adjustment on the B you chose? Can’t help my curiosity.
It was some intonation in the hammer and the pedal was too soft so they change the feather to a harder one.. that's I think :)
what you paid for the f212? the steinway at 15:36 was very beautifuel too.
But I did not bought the Fazioli F212. I bought the Steinway at 15:36🤩😇
@@melkerstendahl i see the room is not so big i wonder how it sound in the room when its 211 cm isnt it loud?
i outgrew my seduction by Steinway around 1983. Too heavy and full of midrange to my ear. Preferred the Fazioli. But you didn't even try a Bechstein model B? Nor a Steingraeber?
Hello John. I got my Steinway mod S from my parents when I was 13 years old. So I learn the touch of Steinway early… and then I went in the university they bought a Fazioli F212 and that was my practise instrument there 1993… so my selection now was between fazioli and steinway.. maybe in the future I go around and try other instrument🤩
I prefer the steinways alot more
There is no right or wrong with the sound. I don't know if Mercedes or BMW is the right car either:)
Steinway 1960 model B, in my opinion.
😇🎶
Have you played a C Bechstein?
No never a new one. I had a bechstein mod A from 1921 for a year. It was never played before me. And I tune it 15 times from 415 hz to 441 hz in one year. So beautiful sound in it. Like a old lady🤩
Current production Bechsteins are terrific - hope you get to play some in the future!
STEINWAY & SONS
YES😅
98 steinway all the way
th-cam.com/video/bexIMgXZIQk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=YoG7cuLuW2SiXg1-
Yes, that was my second choice:) Thank you for watching!
A beautiful journey through winged heaven! To my ears, the F212 2021 and especially the S&S from 1974 had the most beautiful sounds. At least after the F278 from 2020, which was probably in a different league in terms of size and price, but the Makassar, like the F228 from 2020, were also beautiful.
Wonderful when you're spoiled for choice! 😊❤
Thank you for watching the video☺️Yes, the F278 is in a completely different price range, I hardly dared to play on it in case I fell in love with it. If I lived in a bigger house, this is a dream grand piano. But I thought my grand piano was the best value for what I got for the money, to my taste of course.🤩