Is “RITUAL” Overused by Archaeologists?

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ม.ค. 2025

ความคิดเห็น • 90

  • @jamiebooth135
    @jamiebooth135 29 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Ritual, according to Radcliffe-Brown, is a ‘rule-governed activity of a symbolic character which draws the attention of its participants to objects of thought and feelings which they hold to be of special significance’.
    Equally, Durkheim theorized that every society has an elementary form of beliefs. These beliefs were enacted by a certain action; rites. The reason beliefs were so important is because a society would classify every object into two completely exclusive categories that embrace all that exists but reject each other - the sacred and the profane. Ritual is so important to societies because it is action which helps humans understand and act within the presence of the sacred: ‘rites are the rules of conduct which prescribe how a man should compose himself in the presence of these sacred objects’.
    I think this is why we all have an fascination with prehistoric monuments. They demonstrate a prehistoric human inerest in collective ritual action around physical sites. I agree we do not know more than this, and while we can theorise (in essence make up) ideas around what people did there, I think the main lesson from megalithic sites is to recognise ritual and ritual sites as an enduring human trait.

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  29 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@jamiebooth135 “inerest” - learn to spell please. 🙏🏻

  • @ThunderboltWisdom
    @ThunderboltWisdom 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +8

    I worked on an archaeological dig and after questioning why they described seemingly innocuous finds as 'ritual' items I was told that even breakfast is a ritual, so it's used as a catch-all for different things in order to give them some importance. So it seems to me.

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  27 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Total nonsense that 'breakfast is a ritual'. That's the pretentious sophistry I'm trying to debunk in this video.

    • @ThunderboltWisdom
      @ThunderboltWisdom 24 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @AdamMorganIbbotson Exactly my point. What is it they say? One stone is just a stone, two stones is a wall, three stones is a building and four stones is a palace!🤔😲

  • @Kevin-mx1vi
    @Kevin-mx1vi 26 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    I became very distrustful of the word "ritual" when a certain eminent & senior archaeologist who used to appear on TV fairly often used it for _any_ object or site whose purpose was not immediately apparent, and often even when it clearly had a practical but unknown use. That he delivered the word in a tone of voice that said "I am right, and don't you dare contradict me !" made me even more suspicious.

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  26 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Kevin-mx1vi See my last video on Stonehenge for my thoughts.

    • @Kevin-mx1vi
      @Kevin-mx1vi 26 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@AdamMorganIbbotson Just watched it, and I completely agree. I suspect that the "Old Boy's Club" are making a comfortable living from Stonehenge without the "inconvenience" of having to go to the North. ;)

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  26 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ It is grim up here….

    • @michaelbaker6170
      @michaelbaker6170 24 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      I remember a discussion some time ago when I queried the conjecture by an archaeologist that buriel of the dead indicates an early belief in an afterlife. My thought being that it could simply have been the wish that the remains of a loved one not be eaten by animals.

    • @Kevin-mx1vi
      @Kevin-mx1vi 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @michaelbaker6170 If nothing else, it made sense for early humans to hide their dead from predators such as hyenas or wild dogs so they didn't find a corpse and get a taste for human flesh, and it stands to reason that having known them in life they would do that with respect and care.
      In early societies that practiced excarnation - exposing a body to the elements so that the flesh was stripped from the bones - this was done on raised platforms where they couldn't be reached by potential predators.

  • @ForestArchaicCollective
    @ForestArchaicCollective 29 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Great summary! nicely done

  • @Rulebritannia303
    @Rulebritannia303 29 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Merry Christmas Adam, thank you for introducing me to a new interest this year!

  • @stevekeiretsu
    @stevekeiretsu 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    from my layman view of archaeology, it does seem awfully like archaeologists observing the ruins of today's society - say, for example, london - would conclude that heathrow covers an absolutely huge area, so must have been an important religious site; the shard is the tallest structure around, reaching far toward the heavens, so was clearly a monument to their god or god(s); westfield could accomodate many thousands of people and shows a huge range of food remains and jewellery type trinkets - clearly a place for ritual feasting and offerings. it's so exasperating watching time team or whatever and any building that's somewhat unusual, large or distinctive is ascribed to religion instead of eating, shopping, travelling, or anything else. I always sit there thinking, why couldn't it have been a neolithic westfield instead of automatically a neolithic st pauls cathedral? explaining that they may be using 'ritual' in a broader sense that encompasses everyday habits of a not necessarily sacred nature reduces my irritation at that theist presumption somewhat, but it seems to me to dilute the meaning of the word to a point of all-encompassing vagueness that it's not terribly useful anymore

  • @WC21UKProductionsLtd
    @WC21UKProductionsLtd 28 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    I sometimes wonder if my mind will ever stop boggling about the Langdale Axe Factory. What came first there do you think: the demand for ritualistic axes, or did the factory operation create the demand?!
    I’m intrigued by the “house” at Low Kingate! I have never heard that idea about the site before. I thought it was a burial cairn with a concentric stone circle. There’s an example of a house becoming a ritualistic monument at Avebury, I believe?
    Great fan of Francis Pryor back in his Time Team days, but I did think he saw rituals behind finds slightly too readily.
    Great video, Adam. Happy Winter Festival to you.

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  28 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@WC21UKProductionsLtd Have you read the 2019 paper ‘After the Axes’? It ties the quarries there to Ireland and the Newgrange culture. Could be a cultural (something) brought over from there - but who knows!
      I find it especially interesting how many of those axes ended up in East Riding. Why there? Rudston / Duggleby Howe and the Folkton Drums - somehow relate to the Axe Factory and possibly Ireland. Fascinating!

    • @WC21UKProductionsLtd
      @WC21UKProductionsLtd 28 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@AdamMorganIbbotson no I haven't! I need to hunt a copy of that down. I can't envisage a time when I'll ever think I've made enough videos about the factory.
      Your video reminded me about those 1,000 year old axes being buried with the dead. Isn't that amazing to think they held a special status for a period as long as from today, back to the Norman Conquest?
      The number of axes in the East Riding is exciting and I wasn't aware of it until fairly recently. I'd long known there were a lot in Lincolnshire, so there's an eastern thing going on.
      Pretty sure it was Pryor who posited that the axes had a ritual significance there - in the lowest and flattest of regions - because they came from a mountain.
      If he's half right about that and the axe owners understood something of where they came from, it reveals something about their knowledge and worldview that I think most people wouldn't expect.

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  28 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      I’ll ping you a copy! (it’s also discussed in the new edition of my Cumbria book, which I could also ping you, if you want!)
      We know N. England is neglected on the archaeo front - but East Riding maybe has it worst of all. The amount there that’s rarely mentioned is astronomical. Crop mark city!

    • @WC21UKProductionsLtd
      @WC21UKProductionsLtd 28 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ oh thanks Adam - you’re a star. My email is in the “About” section.
      Yes, I want to do more on the East Riding next year. Really enjoyed looking at the wider landscape when I made the Arrows video. It looks to have been as important as Avebury/Stonehenge.

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  28 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@WC21UKProductionsLtd We don’t talk about Stonehenge on this channel. That’s a bar-able offence!

  • @annalieff-saxby568
    @annalieff-saxby568 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    When my brother in law died, he asked that his ashes should be buried in the garden, between the graves of his two cats, and accompanied by a stuffed elephant toy he'd had since he was two. I've often wondered what future archaeologists would make of _that._

  • @markaxworthy2508
    @markaxworthy2508 28 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    "Ritual" seems to be to archaeology as fibromyalgia or ME are to medicine. They are applied when specific evidence of causation is lacking.

  • @JorgeStolfi
    @JorgeStolfi 28 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Unfortunately I cannot access the papers on the "Longsdale axe factory" from here. Wikipedia says that the "factory" produced only rough shapes, which were turned into polished axes elsewhere; yet it was the ultimate source of 27% of all axes found al over Great Britain.
    Presumably the stone from that location was particularly well suited for that use. Or maybe it was because of a self-sustained fame, like Rolex watches and Vuitton bags today: everybody "knows" that they are symbols of wealth, because everybody knows that they ware.

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  28 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Hey - my new book discusses this in detail! Highly recommend!

  • @Adeodatus100
    @Adeodatus100 28 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Unfortunately, from the perspective of religious studies, things like prayer and meditation aren't really rituals. A ritual has to have an "outwardness" about it that to an extent precludes such activities (although accompanying actions such as lighting a candle or burning herbs or incense may come under the ritual umbrella). Wittgenstein opted for simplicity in describing rituals: "we do these things and are satisfied". Personally, I think that's _too_ simple, and would like to bring in Roy Rappaport's observations about the (more or less) invariance of the ritual action and that the action is not invented by the person performing it. It's an incredibly difficult area of study made more so by the fact that the word is used in different ways by different disciplines, and I agree that in archaeology it has sometimes been used as a blunt object to write off problems that should better be answered by "we don't know".

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  28 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I agree with much of that, but would strongly disagree that prayer and religious meditation are not rituals. Both involve an overt action (conciously thinking, in my opinion, is an overt external action). Especially in an archaeological context, we need a nice neat word to describe such activities.

  • @permabroeelco8155
    @permabroeelco8155 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    In the cases of so called ritual places and landscapes I prefer the term ceremonial, as this can still include (collective) rituals as well as other types of formal ceremonies including political meetings and social gatherings and ‘rites de passage’, weddings etc. They could incorporate some religious or ritual aspects, but not necessarily.
    Happy holidays.

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  27 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@permabroeelco8155 I also like ceremonial. Ritual is more specific a term

  • @WainwrightWalksWiaLocalLad
    @WainwrightWalksWiaLocalLad 28 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Always enjoy a good ritual!
    Thanks for posting, ATB Alistair 👍

  • @Kiyoone
    @Kiyoone 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Yes and YES. Usually when they have absolutely 0 clues on the matter, anything is for "ritual" or "tombs" etc etc.
    They really lack in imagination and this comes from the same school of thinking

  • @gingerz9
    @gingerz9 28 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Excellent video! I'm going to have to buy your book for Christmas ☺

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  28 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@gingerz9 I agree! Thanks for watching :)

  • @Traveler13
    @Traveler13 28 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Very interesting

  • @Libertybell2024
    @Libertybell2024 14 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I would love to see a video on the Rudston Monolith.

  • @annalisette5897
    @annalisette5897 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    😆 Wonderful! I will ritualistically wish you Happy Holidays and a very Merry Christmas....! Um, I am American... I should offer you a Happy Christmas and a fun Boxing Day? 😂 🎄🕯 🎄

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@annalisette5897 Many thanks! Have a merry Christmas yourself and a joyous new year! 🎅🏻

  • @Skyefirecat
    @Skyefirecat 26 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    I still think it's used in a lazy way to lump everything archeologists don't know into a single category. The criticism about everything being either a tomb or a temple still stands 🤔

  • @NCCorruption
    @NCCorruption 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Good house analogy. I have heard it posited more than once that long barrows were constructed on the foundations of the original long house of the first settlers in an area or something like that. The House of the Ancestors

  • @mishapurser4439
    @mishapurser4439 29 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    As a Quaker Pagan questions like this have become increasingly important for me to consider. Whilst there are some major similarities between Quakerism and Paganism there are also some major differences. I need to figure out how to square those differences in a coherent way.

  • @Nastyswimmer
    @Nastyswimmer 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

    7:09 - not "the Langdale Valley". Just "Langdale" (or Great Langdale to be precise).

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  24 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Tautology. I've lived there most of my life - everyone just calls it the langdale valley!

    • @Nastyswimmer
      @Nastyswimmer 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@AdamMorganIbbotson No - tautology, possibly because "everyone" is mainly incomers who don't understand the meaning of names, like those who refer to "Ben Nevis Mountain" or think that Stock Gill is the name of the beck that runs through Ambleside.

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  23 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Nastyswimmer my family’s always been from the Lake District, Hawshead / Windermere. You don’t get more local than me.

  • @djdreaming5377
    @djdreaming5377 29 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Ritual is a very vague word.In a group of people at a ritual event each interprets it differently.Without finding out who thinks what we have to rely on definitions.
    Freud? Isn't he the one who once said that smoking a cigar was not a symbolic act? Maybe he should have said ritual.
    Erving Goffman, thanks for mentioning him.Framing for me explains a lot.
    Finally, Merry Christmas😊

  • @TheImmortalArt
    @TheImmortalArt หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Awesome video! Rainy UK, a? (;

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @TheImmortalArt “rainy UK” - like saying “wet water”

    • @TheImmortalArt
      @TheImmortalArt หลายเดือนก่อน

      @ you should see West Sweden!

    • @TheImmortalArt
      @TheImmortalArt หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      By the way, I’ve sent you an email

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @TheImmortalArt I!haven’t received anything! What address did you use??

  • @davidchurch3472
    @davidchurch3472 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    what about rituals in Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, which are usually entirely individual-based?

  • @vespasian266
    @vespasian266 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Ritual or otherwise these places are more mystery than anything else to me.
    I keep threatening to visit one of these sites in an attempt to pick up some vibes that might lead to a clue.but I think I'm kidding myself.
    Perhaps in the spring when the weathers a little better?.

  • @punkykenickie2408
    @punkykenickie2408 28 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Re: Psychology and rituals, I feel like there's some overlap between habit and meaning with OCD which assigns meanings to seemingly random actions, often done repetitively. Obviously an OCD brain isn't functioning as it should, but is it just overdoing something humans do normally, that in some instances evolves into something culture-wide? What I mean is, do our brains just come up with these things because they like to connect cause and effect and don't always do it "right" but if it feels right to enough people it can catch on and spread?

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  28 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Yes, and 'ritual' is the word that's commonly used to describe that penomenon. However, from an archaeological point of view, this is not very helpful. I see that 'ritual' as metaphorical - i.e., 'like a ritual'.

  • @davidchurch3472
    @davidchurch3472 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I do wonder how many of these sites, although quite large compared to the Archaeoligical tradition of an individual rude dwelling, are actually the skeletons of large buidings, just as if our bungalow lost it's wooden internal structure and roof and windows, it would leave just the circumferential parts of walls with gaps (where were doors and windows), etc

  • @edgarsnake2857
    @edgarsnake2857 24 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I loved the shameless plug at the end of the video. But, to the point of do we overuse the word 'ritual'?- I would say this: I live in a medium size state in the US. There are almost 4,000 places or worship in my state. I can WALK to 100 places of worship in 20 minutes or less. Most of these places are built of stone and/or brick. In 2,000 years archaeologists will uncover these ritual centers and they will be correct in calling them that.

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  24 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@edgarsnake2857 thanks! And absolutely agree with you!

  • @willhemmings
    @willhemmings 26 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I don't wish to ritualise my TH-cam activity by subscribing to a channel! I appreciate this overview of a vexing subject. I can't help feeling that future archaeologists will look back at the millions of toothbrushes scattered over the planet and declare, 'Ah, a ritual landscape!'

  • @micheleheddane3804
    @micheleheddane3804 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    It also annoys me that any gravethat has a lot of rich goods is the grave of a king. Why not a wealthy person

  • @iansutton8802
    @iansutton8802 26 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Thank you. So, the answer to your question has to be ‘yes’. I always thought it odd that the only buildings and objects that survive millennia are religious or ritualistic. Maybe that stone circle was an Amazon warehouse or a nightclub!

  • @standingbear998
    @standingbear998 26 วันที่ผ่านมา

    they stick to a few catch all magic words. temple is one of their favorites, tombs, ritual or ceremonial, pyramid

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  26 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@standingbear998 pyramid?? I imagine it’s pretty easy to identify a pyramid mate…

  • @jk3253
    @jk3253 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I would take issue with your definition as a bit too narrow. There are enough secular rituals that we can point to today that hinging the definition on a religious entity is too limiting. In an American context, for example, there is ritual surrounding secular holidays like Thanksgiving: family gathering at the dining table, specific foods, etc. We also have quite a lot of rituals surrounding major societal sporting events like the Super Bowl: specific foods, specific clothings. There is good reason why scholars tend to recognize ritual by its societal function rather than its connection to religion: then we would have to define religion, which is impossible. The only thing that all religions have in common that all non-religions don’t have in common is that at some point someone called them a religion. The term “religion” is a changeable discursive construct, very similar to words like “ritual.”

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  24 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I actually wouldn't call Thanksgiving a ritual. It's more of a celebration.
      Religion was coined in the 16th century to differentiate between Protestantism and Catholicism, then later explanded to "world religion" following colonialism. It has a pretty strict meaning, like 'ritual', but is often bunkified by post-modernists to mean everything and anything.

  • @bryn494
    @bryn494 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    'Ritual' is not overused. Sometimes there are tombs :D

  • @AgentTrust
    @AgentTrust 29 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    👍

  • @tomgoss6401
    @tomgoss6401 25 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Yes.

  • @IfPushComesToShove
    @IfPushComesToShove 26 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I ritually clicked on LIKE

  • @TheHypnotstCollector
    @TheHypnotstCollector 28 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    interesting, not one definition of ritual uses the word Behavior. Ritual as symptom. Pharmakos Ritual is common through out history. A compulsion based on obsession .... an obsession with "purification through human sacrifice. "

  • @andrewdavies8794
    @andrewdavies8794 28 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    You have no idea what went on in these places, hence "funerary and ritual", the archaeologists standing joke. Why can't you just say "we don't know"?

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  28 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I agree. It's called socratic wisdom! Though, it's sometimes obvious when something's religious / funerary...

    • @andrewdavies8794
      @andrewdavies8794 28 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@AdamMorganIbbotson It's difficult to find a Neolithic megalithic construction that hasn't been labelled as "ritual or funerary". It would be constructive to know what would be disqualifying for that label. Even a lack of evidence means nothing. Is this really a line that mustn't be crossed?

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  28 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@andrewdavies8794 There's sites I know of in the North York Moors that are thought to be boundary markers etc (Low Bridestones for instance).
      But I think most burial monuments aren't necessarily ritual, but instead functional - i.e., holding human remains in place respectfully. This already disqualifies the majority of megalithic monuments across the UK, which tend to date to the Bronze Age, and mark burials.
      Otherwise, sites like Avebury, Castlerigg, and Stonehenge - are quite clearly ritual; having been designed to hold congregations etc. People don't haul massive stones up mountains and erect them in massive circles for cultural reasons. Especially when artefacts found within them are things like Langdale axes or burned shards of pottery.

    • @andrewdavies8794
      @andrewdavies8794 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@AdamMorganIbbotson The finds linked to stone circles may well be incidental, as could the burials. Plenty of people have had their ashes scattered in Cardiff Arms park, but it's not a cemetery, well, only for Welsh rugby. Circles could have been boxing rings for all we know. Standing stones could have had any number of functions, but they are classified as "ritual and funerary". The real reasons for them could just as likely have been megalithic science of some sort. Religion is a modern projection for them.

  • @PaIaeoCIive1684
    @PaIaeoCIive1684 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Those mysterious ancients went to great lengths to plan, create, adapt and preserve these sites across the landscape. The heavy menhirs, for example, weren't just casually erected as the tribe had no farming or hunting to do, as their position in relation to each other and in the landscape is often carefully chosen. So them being 'sacred' places for the locals to perform important ceremonies is logical, captain.
    My favourite ritual since my longhair days is Space Ritual by the mighty Hawkwind, which is riff-laden and rocks, man.

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @PaIaeoCIive1684 Yes, thanks. You can read all about that in the new edition of my book ‘Cumbria’s Prehistoric Monuments’! Of course, will say, if all landscapes are ‘ceremonial’ or ‘ritual’ none are! Many places were evidently more special than others.

  • @JorgeStolfi
    @JorgeStolfi 28 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Your definition of "ritual" is too complicated, too narrow, and problematic. Are the American Fourth of July fireworks a ritual? What about Burning Man, or the World Soccer Cup? Or throwing coins in the Trevi fountain, or the changing of the guard at Buckingham?
    If Burning Man and the Soccer Cup are rituals, where is the religion? If they are not (because they lack religious significance, "inner meaning", whatever), then how can you tell whether any prehistoric site or artifact is "ritual"? That would require knowing what was in the head of the people who created it...
    I prefer the definition "a ritual is an action that is performed for its symbolic value rather than for its actual physical effects". Thus religious ceremonies would be rituals, and so would be putting flowers on tombs of deceased relatives, cutting the ribbon in the dedication of a building, carrying a rabbit's foot, giving a cup or medal to the winner of a competition, clicking beer glasses for a cheer. But Burning Man and the Soccer Cup would *not* be rituals, because they are done for the fun that they provide, not for any symbolic value.
    This definition still makes it hard to tell whether an ancient site or artifact was "ritual" (was Stonehenge temple, or just a fairgrounds for a Neolithic Burning Man?). But it makes that decision possible, at least in theory: depending on whether one can find evidence of a concrete benefit that people derived from it -- like entertainment, trade, boundary demarcation, calendar fixing -- or evidence for the absence of such benefit.

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  28 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Too complicated AND too narrow? Also, no soccer and fireworks are NOT rituals. There are other words for them (sport / celebrations). Ritual CAN be used metaphorically in those scenarios, but not in a literal sense. To make it too broad is to kill all meaning to the word.

    • @JorgeStolfi
      @JorgeStolfi 28 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@AdamMorganIbbotson Yes, I agree that soccer is not not a "ritual", because it is performed for its effects and not as a symbolic action. But how can one objectively tell the difference between "celebration" and "ritual"?
      That is why I feel that your definition is too narrow: it requires some sort of religiosity, which is at best a fuzzy concept, at worst an unscientific one because its presence cannot be objectively determined. By your definition, isn't your opening example (people doing things around the great leader house etc) just a "celebration"? What is the evidence that Stonehenge (or any other Neolithic monument) ever had any "ritual" aspect, as opposed to just "celebratory" or utilitarian?
      And I don't think that my definition is too broad. It does distinguish between the World Soccer Cup (not ritual) and cutting the ribbon at inauguration (ritual) and burying the dead (not ritual) and placing gifts in the tomb (ritual) and choosing a king (not ritual) and crowning him (ritual), etc.
      And I would say that "folkloric" dances performed by accountants and college students for tourists' consumption are still "ritual", because they are performed for being symbols of the country --even if the performers themselves don't care about them. And kneeling at Mass or setting up a Christmas tree are still rituals even if the person is an Atheist...

    • @AdamMorganIbbotson
      @AdamMorganIbbotson  28 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@JorgeStolfi May be true, but all classic definitions of the word specify religion. Removing this from the word, essentially gets rid of a verbage word for religious rites. We use it elsewhere as a metaphore, and that's fine too!

  • @MickieKinger
    @MickieKinger 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I always take a ritual dump each morning. It amazes me how you are able to impose thinking upon a subject nothing is know about.