consumerism is also somewhat unavoidable in the punk rock community (or any community really). sure you can thrift and diy, but there’s gonna be places you have to support in order to get the things you want. say you want a chain to diy a necklace, you can buy from craft stores but theres no saying how ethical the means of that consummation is. and of course that’s no excuse to actively participate in exploitation- im not saying that you should just say fuck it and buy from dollskill- but ‘calling out’ small businesses for “consumerism” instead of fighting against those huge corporations seems kinda counter-productive. i think making money off of the things you love should be encouraged, especially if you’re fair about it and can help people gain access to products that they maybe couldnt get on their own. its a weird topic but most things are
yea but, id say doing your best to avoid as much consumerism as possible is the best thing to do, and yes, avoiding consumerism is incredibly hard under capitalism, i try my hardest to only ever buy from small businesses, 2nd hand, or DIY
I think it’s okay for bands to sign as long as they stay true to themselves and their values. I’m new to punk and it’s beliefs and I’m not gonna lie, I don’t agree with some of them, but I do think selling out is fucked. You can’t compromise art for money, that’s how I look at it.
forgive me if im wrong, but isnt it kind of an oxymoron to call an independent artist consumerist? if they work by themselves and sell only their own work, then theres no workers to abuse. sure they can ramp up the prices if they want to, but since they arent brands, they likely aren’t going to get any sales if they do. idk
if i'm not mistaken, Gandhi's strategy to emancipate India from England on economic levels was precisely to grow their own food, make their own fabrics and all that jazz. The thing about capitalism is that it makes us dependent on that exact things that makes this system so fucking shit. If we want to scape these things, we gotta learn to do things on our own and get rid of the rulling class on the process (also sorry if some words are wrong, english is not my first language)
My dad was an amateur manager for the spanish group "Australian Blonde" (who were his friends) in the 90's. Australian blonde never sold out, they never signed any label. My dad at first was almost convinced by some labels who claimed that they would blow up un america and beyond. However, they noticed that the labels would have a say to their lyrics and songs for the next 3-4 albums and they decided to stay broke and somewhat unpopular, but with their own sound. That is why i believe that signing ANY contract in the music industry is literally selling your music's soul to the devil.
late to the video but this is such a great topic for discussion! I would love to give my zines out for free if I could. I’m thinking of implementing a sliding scale/pay what you can sort of thing. but yeah so far I’ve basically been selling them for whatever they cost to print, which unfortunately is more than I’d like. in terms of the wider community, a lot of ppl have made good points in other comments. you can’t avoid consumerism entirely, it’s literally the “and yet you participate in society” meme. like yes be aware of who or what you’re giving your money to and don’t be a capitalist, but there’s a limit to the effectiveness of “ethical consumption”. institutions and corporations have made consumption practically involuntary, and until that superstructure is dismantled, there’s only so much you can do through choices you make as an individual. looking forward to the video on fighting consumerism on a larger scale :)
I feel like the punks that call out your small DIY business are taking issue with the larger issue of capitalism. Bc businesses like yours are anti-consumerist, but it is still working within the capitalist system, albeit in a more human, community oriented, less harmful way. Does that make sense? consumerism is like extreme capitalism, but some hardcore anarchists (for example) might view a small ethical business to be an oxymoron, bc its upholding the status quo, delaying the revolution.
I think the signing to a major label one is an interesting one because a, i dont hate bands like greenday i think their awesome and also i just think that instantly hating on a band just because they got popular is what is ruining punk. But on the other hand anticapitalism and punk should go hand in hand. i really think its okay on some levels to push back against bands that bought into capitalism like the sex pistols. doesnt mean we have to necesarrelly boycott them but just keep it clear that we dont like that
Sorry i think I was talking about Tramp Stamps. I know one of the members of Choking Victim/Leftover Crack was an abuser but i dont think any of them were industry plants
I mean it's not like you have to avoid it at all cost but yeah, try to go to thrift stores and to diy shit more. and after that sure, get whatever else you want at hot topic. it's a large corporation that prolly gets its shit at sweatshops but any place that doesn't charge 200 bucks per shirt is at this point so don't worry about what you can't avoid.
It's so sad that you believe malcolm mclaren's lies about how he created the sex pistols, and proves you don't know their true history, malcolm by the way was a completely independent manager. I bet alot of the bands you listen to have big corporate managers. The whole reason the pistols soon got kicked of A & M and E.M.i so soon is that the pistols done things on thier own terms and wouldn't back down to industry pressure, those labels couldn't control the sex pistols, the 3rd label the pistols signed to and put their album out on was Virgin, an independent label. And on that album was the song EMI (unlimited edition) in which the pistols so cynically rubbished EMI and the industry. You calling the sex pistols out like that actually makes you an elitist and makes you look very silly when you listen to bands that wouldn't exist without the sex pistols. Most of the early bands were signed to major labels, the USA bands as well as the UK bands.
Man I can't stand sweatshops. I'd rather thrift my clothes and then customise them myself. Way cheaper and I get creative control! Honestly though I think that this topic, like all others, is nuanced.
My thoughts exactly! I love thrifting, too!! Mixing styles, different eras, luxury (pieces not prices, I am broke) with DIY streetstyle, and whatever catches my eye! I even have some pieces from brands I hate! (bought secondhand/found/ gifted of course!) as long as the garment is decent quality and fits some aspect of my style ). But even thrifting is complicated like you said! Esp nowadays! Do I buy larger size garment to upcycle or leave it for plus size ppl who have way less options in thrift stores ( I wouldn’t take a cool or well constructed piece, I take wacky, out of style pieces in plus sizes And reselling thrifted stuff is a huge, ethically confusing issue.
@@hallievanoutryve3109 honestly it's so hard to find plus sized clothing. Like even in high street stores it's hard to find. But like I get why people like getting oversized clothes, I do too
consumerism is also somewhat unavoidable in the punk rock community (or any community really). sure you can thrift and diy, but there’s gonna be places you have to support in order to get the things you want. say you want a chain to diy a necklace, you can buy from craft stores but theres no saying how ethical the means of that consummation is. and of course that’s no excuse to actively participate in exploitation- im not saying that you should just say fuck it and buy from dollskill- but ‘calling out’ small businesses for “consumerism” instead of fighting against those huge corporations seems kinda counter-productive. i think making money off of the things you love should be encouraged, especially if you’re fair about it and can help people gain access to products that they maybe couldnt get on their own. its a weird topic but most things are
yea but, id say doing your best to avoid as much consumerism as possible is the best thing to do, and yes, avoiding consumerism is incredibly hard under capitalism, i try my hardest to only ever buy from small businesses, 2nd hand, or DIY
looking cute AF man! Very eloquent, you make great points as usual. also LMFAO THE TRAMP STAMPSSSSS AHAHA
WHASUP JAYY. Thank you bro!!
I think it’s okay for bands to sign as long as they stay true to themselves and their values. I’m new to punk and it’s beliefs and I’m not gonna lie, I don’t agree with some of them, but I do think selling out is fucked. You can’t compromise art for money, that’s how I look at it.
Yeah exactly, can't fault anyone for trying to survive.
forgive me if im wrong, but isnt it kind of an oxymoron to call an independent artist consumerist? if they work by themselves and sell only their own work, then theres no workers to abuse. sure they can ramp up the prices if they want to, but since they arent brands, they likely aren’t going to get any sales if they do. idk
Unless you grow your own food, create your own clothing, etc. Isnt consumerism kind of unavoidable?
Thats the problem with the fact that consumerism has control of everything, it makes itself extremely difficult to live without
if i'm not mistaken, Gandhi's strategy to emancipate India from England on economic levels was precisely to grow their own food, make their own fabrics and all that jazz. The thing about capitalism is that it makes us dependent on that exact things that makes this system so fucking shit. If we want to scape these things, we gotta learn to do things on our own and get rid of the rulling class on the process (also sorry if some words are wrong, english is not my first language)
@@fran.6522 Perfectly said (plus your english is great man don't worry)
true but you should still try to avoid it. shit, death is unavoidable too but that doesn't stop me from looking before crossing the road.
love your content man
I think this is smth thats very important to address. It's so sad when people say that they can't afford to be punk
My dad was an amateur manager for the spanish group "Australian Blonde" (who were his friends) in the 90's. Australian blonde never sold out, they never signed any label. My dad at first was almost convinced by some labels who claimed that they would blow up un america and beyond. However, they noticed that the labels would have a say to their lyrics and songs for the next 3-4 albums and they decided to stay broke and somewhat unpopular, but with their own sound.
That is why i believe that signing ANY contract in the music industry is literally selling your music's soul to the devil.
late to the video but this is such a great topic for discussion! I would love to give my zines out for free if I could. I’m thinking of implementing a sliding scale/pay what you can sort of thing. but yeah so far I’ve basically been selling them for whatever they cost to print, which unfortunately is more than I’d like.
in terms of the wider community, a lot of ppl have made good points in other comments. you can’t avoid consumerism entirely, it’s literally the “and yet you participate in society” meme. like yes be aware of who or what you’re giving your money to and don’t be a capitalist, but there’s a limit to the effectiveness of “ethical consumption”. institutions and corporations have made consumption practically involuntary, and until that superstructure is dismantled, there’s only so much you can do through choices you make as an individual.
looking forward to the video on fighting consumerism on a larger scale :)
I feel like the punks that call out your small DIY business are taking issue with the larger issue of capitalism. Bc businesses like yours are anti-consumerist, but it is still working within the capitalist system, albeit in a more human, community oriented, less harmful way. Does that make sense? consumerism is like extreme capitalism, but some hardcore anarchists (for example) might view a small ethical business to be an oxymoron, bc its upholding the status quo, delaying the revolution.
i kind of think the point of a small business will always to be a bigger business. like it’s just a less successful business? still the same concept
like if you’re doing the same thing and just making less how is it that much different
Ethical profit is fine, sentiment can only go that far
I love all your videos man. Very helpful and enlightening .
What a great video and awesome channel!
That intro lol
I think the signing to a major label one is an interesting one because a, i dont hate bands like greenday i think their awesome and also i just think that instantly hating on a band just because they got popular is what is ruining punk. But on the other hand anticapitalism and punk should go hand in hand. i really think its okay on some levels to push back against bands that bought into capitalism like the sex pistols. doesnt mean we have to necesarrelly boycott them but just keep it clear that we dont like that
What was that bit about someone from Choking Victim being an industry plant?
Referencing the abuse of Whitney from Days N Daze. I gotcha now. Yeah, fuck STZA.
Sorry i think I was talking about Tramp Stamps. I know one of the members of Choking Victim/Leftover Crack was an abuser but i dont think any of them were industry plants
So are you saying I shouldn’t enjoy going to hot topic?
I mean it's not like you have to avoid it at all cost but yeah, try to go to thrift stores and to diy shit more.
and after that sure, get whatever else you want at hot topic. it's a large corporation that prolly gets its shit at sweatshops but any place that doesn't charge 200 bucks per shirt is at this point so don't worry about what you can't avoid.
im so sorry i moved to a different account and i forgot to sub qwq
It's so sad that you believe malcolm mclaren's lies about how he created the sex pistols, and proves you don't know their true history, malcolm by the way was a completely independent manager. I bet alot of the bands you listen to have big corporate managers. The whole reason the pistols soon got kicked of A & M and E.M.i so soon is that the pistols done things on thier own terms and wouldn't back down to industry pressure, those labels couldn't control the sex pistols, the 3rd label the pistols signed to and put their album out on was Virgin, an independent label. And on that album was the song EMI (unlimited edition) in which the pistols so cynically rubbished EMI and the industry. You calling the sex pistols out like that actually makes you an elitist and makes you look very silly when you listen to bands that wouldn't exist without the sex pistols. Most of the early bands were signed to major labels, the USA bands as well as the UK bands.
Man I can't stand sweatshops.
I'd rather thrift my clothes and then customise them myself. Way cheaper and I get creative control!
Honestly though I think that this topic, like all others, is nuanced.
My thoughts exactly! I love thrifting, too!! Mixing styles, different eras, luxury (pieces not prices, I am broke) with DIY streetstyle, and whatever catches my eye! I even have some pieces from brands I hate! (bought secondhand/found/ gifted of course!) as long as the garment is decent quality and fits some aspect of my style ).
But even thrifting is complicated like you said! Esp nowadays! Do I buy larger size garment to upcycle or leave it for plus size ppl who have way less options in thrift stores ( I wouldn’t take a cool or well constructed piece, I take wacky, out of style pieces in plus sizes
And reselling thrifted stuff is a huge, ethically confusing issue.
@@hallievanoutryve3109 honestly it's so hard to find plus sized clothing. Like even in high street stores it's hard to find.
But like I get why people like getting oversized clothes, I do too