We NEED to Talk About Joker Folie à Deux...
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- We NEED to Talk About Joker Folie a Deux... - Joker Folie à Deux Breakdown, Ending Explained and spoiler review. I review and breakdown Joker 2 discussing the ending with the real Joker, Arthur Fleck meeting Harley Quinn at Arkham State Hospital and if Joker 2 is bad. Covering Arthur Fleck Joker death scene, Joker 2 real joker, DC Batman Easter Eggs, Harvey Dent Two Face and much more. Subscribe for more on Matt Reeves' The Batman and Robert Pattinson, and more in The Batman 2 2026, other coverage on Superman Legacy plot theories and more DCU Gods and Monsters, Justice League, factoring in other DCU News, DCU Leaks and more!
#Joker #Joker2 #JokerFolieaDeux #DC #DCU #JoaquinPhoenix #LadyGAGA #dc #Joker #TheJoker #Batman
Check out my previous new videos!
Did Matt Reeves Just Tease THE COURT OF OWLS in The Batman 2?! - • WHAT?! Did Matt Reeves...
Let's Talk About the Latest DCU Leaks & Rumours... - • Let's Talk About the L...
Why LANTERNS is my Most Anticipated DCU Series - • Why LANTERNS is my Mos...
HUGE Details & Theories That Emerged From James Gunn's SUPERMAN Filming - • HUGE Details & Theorie...
Why I Didn't LOVE Deadpool & Wolverine... (Spoiler REVIEW) - • Why I Didn't LOVE Dead...
Is BATMAN CAPED CRUSADER Worth Watching? (No Spoiler REVIEW) - • Is BATMAN CAPED CRUSAD...
THE PENGUIN Official Trailer Breakdown + The Batman 2 SDCC News - • THE PENGUIN Official T...
CREATURE COMMANDOS Trailer Reaction & Breakdown - • CREATURE COMMANDOS Tra...
JOKER 2: Folie à Deux Official Trailer Breakdown - • JOKER 2: Folie à Deux ...
Video Chapters:
̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶F̶o̶l̶l̶o̶w̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶s̶e̶ ̶l̶i̶n̶k̶s̶!̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶ ̶
Twitter: / bobatalks
Discord server: / discord
Merch store: bobamerch.crea...
Facebook: / bobatalks
Phillips and Phoenix were paid tens of millions of dollars to make a sequel specifically because so many fans enjoyed the first film, and they thank us by lecturing and torturing us for two and a half hours for enjoying it. That's gratitude for you.
The lesson is maybe you shouldn't have liked the first movie.
I'm immune to this steaming turd because I did the right thing and disliked the first movie immensely, Phoenix for me was almost unwatchable.
@@zane4575I’m so proudly politically incorrect. You should try it out, I guarantee it’ll make you happier.
@@zane4575So basically we were to dislike it ? That makes no sense at all 😓 Todd made a film that he wanted to make and obviously wanted to be a success but now that it is, he goes back on it ? Give me a break that feels so entitled 🫠
What was the lecturing? A lot of morons say that but don't say what the lecturing was.
@@zane4575”I did the right thing and disliked it”.
So you DECIDE whether you like something or not? You know that’s no how that works, don’t you?
I will never understand the decision to make Arthur's arc so circular. This film should have pushed him further into madness and the Joker persona. After all, it is a movie about...you guessed it THE JOKER. I can understand the message that Todd wanted to get across, but he should've known that this would have been the reaction given fan's expectations. It just feels like a giant middle finger to people who liked the first one.
You still after 5 years think it was about the Joker? Lol
You missed the point so bad
Point missed.
This is my thoughts exactly. It feels like they just went backwards on the whole first movie.
I told you. Joker: mort à l'arrivée
Seriously….DC dark universe my ass
The rape scene was waaay too much and ultimately breaks everything that Todd was going for I think. He could've had Arthur come to that realization just from his chat with Gary, or from realizing that Harley only loves Joker, not Arthur. But to have the guards of Arkham rape him, and for that to be the thing that finally slaps him out of the Joker persona not only sends an incredibly fucked up message (prison abuse works?) but also I'm not even sure it's consistent with his character. The thing about him is that it was being abused that caused his anger and hatred to develop and for him to lash out; after all, he only ever killed people who wronged him. Now it's more abuse that causes him to suddenly repent? They raped him to get the Joker out of him, and it just worked?
The rape was to enforce that this fantasy of his is only a "solution" during the times it's working in his favor. Ie. when he brings a gun to the Murray show. But given that he was caught for his crime, the fantasy of the Joker isn't serving him anymore, as he's not able to control the cirumstances. In the end, Gary was right, which a part of Arthur knows is true, that Joker wasn't a solution to anything, that the people he killed didn't deserve it (they deserved something, for sure, but not that), just a mindless retaliation of violence like the rape itself.
Thinking rape is too cruel or too far, in the same movie franchise where Joker bashes a guy's head in repeatedly and kills his own helpless mother, kind of illustrates part of the film's point.
@@DamnFineCupOfCoffee I dont think Arthur has the mental capacity to know what anyone deserves let alone what he receives himself. He may not have a split personality but that shouldnt stop your empathy to the man. (whats wrong with you?)
Very well articulated
that is metaphorical of Todd Phillips r'ing you for daring to want to see a good Joker movie and yes he did finish, and now you're pregnant with Todd's R baby
What rape scene?
lmao imagine Todd Philips accepted that Ceo job for Dc studios
They hired gun ..not much of a difference
Thanks for the membership gift! Not sure what i get but appreciate the gesture. Gotta say its pretty cool that you get to talk about the comic world, media, etc for a living. I know you put in work, and dedicate alot of time to your craft, but its so cool to do something you love for a living. Keep it going!
As far as the Arkham inmate carving his face I think it was a meta way for Joaquin to say hey Heath Ledger will always be THE Joker. When Joaquin won a golden lion award in 2019 he gave a speech that ended with him saying he was standing on Heath’s shoulders so I think Joaquin might view himself as a lesser performance to Heath and they gave a nod to that idea.
I think that's reaching. Maybe it was paying homage but I think it was more of a critique that people only wanted Fleck as The Joker and the consequences of his actions live on after his death.
I think Joker ideology works because no one cares about Arthur and only cared about Joker so they’d follow the next one up EASILY He also never owned up or claimed it in the end and distanced himself - it’s not him. Joker is of a mysterious origin like you said - in this world we got one that also makes him not feel like Joker. And in this world it can work because there is no Batman yet and Bruce is a kid. Who was he gonna fight ? Like I said in other comment, Arthur could never be the agent of chaos or a terrorist / crime boss / mastermind and develop into that Joker he’d be way too old and that just isn’t him. That’s why expectations are let down and we knew this in first one. Maybe I’m only one who didn’t ignore it.
Well I understand where you are coming from, even if Arthur was the true Joker(which he should have been), he doesn’t need Batman to feel like his story is complete. That first movie was great, and Arthur does own up to the mantle of Joker by the end of the first film, where he revels in the chaos, smears a bloody smile on his face, and has that entire scene with the therapist right at the end. He was suppose to be the true Joker, but WB got greedy and wanted more money and had Todd make a sequel that was never planned or thought out
@@jimmykummelisdeadexposed7671 but he wasn’t the Joker since he wasn’t all those things and doesn’t fight Batman. He’s a variation and idea of the inspiration. His story is complete is such a sad way. He wasn’t going to cause chaos and madness the way people wanted.
2 yrs he was in Arkham, he became far removed from Joker /fantasy world and his acts. As compared to who he was his whole life. Still experiencing same awful things and wasn’t true to his actual core. And he could no longer claim or embrace it with the affects of what he did.
@@Humanipathic you don’t need to be an agent of chaos or fight Batman to be the Joker. From the first movie, he became Joker by the end. Not it’s not a comic book accurate Joker, but it doesn’t mean that he is not the character. A sequel was NEVER planned. He had accepted the mantle of Joker by the end of the first movie. But since they then were pressured to make a sequel, they backtracked his whole development into the character and decided to keep him as Arthur which was a poor choice and the majority of people agree it was a bad decision to do so. Hell the ENTIRE idea of making a sequel to the first was a horrible idea that sadly came to fruition
I would’ve accepted a court room drama over what we got. And not because I dislike musicals. My favorite musical is “ the night man cometh”
I really wanted Arthur fleck to evolve into the comic book pure evil version of joker. But sadly it never happened 😢
I'm sure you'll get that in the DCU
@@TheZackBriggs What's the point of Arthur then?
@@zane4575 its just an else world tale. the point is to tell a story within the batman universe without being chained down to the logic and commercial limitations of the property. Id love to see a rated r else world film of batman chasing down some seriously demented evil villain.
Anyone with half a brain would’ve guessed THAT wasn’t happening lol. This movie should’ve never been made.
@@breezeyx664 I know that would never happen. It’s just I wanted that to happen
I've been waiting to hear you talk about this since your birthday stream. Great points, Boba. Can't wait to check it out...once it's on streaming.
Guys it’s either Todd gave into some sort of agenda to undo the genius of the first movie. Or Todd wanted to give a big F YOU to the studio and did this but that sucks if that’s the case because the only ones I got screwed are the fans.
It’s unfortunate that they set up Joaquin Joker the way they did because he was never going to become “THE JOKER” You really opened my eyes, It really was just Arthur 🤔 GREAT BREAKDOWN/Review
I’m just tired of all the super meta and subverting expectations bull shit. Agree the first movie should have been a one off.
The first movie should never have been. If I wanted to see a movie about a male Karen with the body of a SCP creature I would watch some news reel featuring the left.
Been waiting on this review!
Sorry it took a while to get out, wanted to get it up much sooner!
@@BobaTalks No need to apologize! All that matters is that the video is now up and we can all enjoy your great content!
The best review I’ve seen on this movie!👌 Also happy 30th birthday, welcome to the club!😁🎂
This had so much potential and it floundered
Disagree. Just seen it and I thought it was a fitting end to Arthur fleck.
Oh man, been waiting for this so much I’m dropping what I’m doing just to watch it! Thanks for all the great reviews
Thank you so much for watching Micah! :)
I was pretty disappointed even though I liked certain things about it. They should have gone even more ham with the musical sequences imo. I felt like the first one was sad but still an exciting ride but this one was just sad.
I know what you mean - no matter what with regards to how I was navigating my feelings after the films ending/my overall impressions, the most stand out emotion was the feeling of sadness.
When I finished Joker 2 I immediately thought of you because it seemed like you were banking on this film to be good 😭
Near the end when he gets shanked an kept still SINGING. I was like noooooo please just let it end.😭😭
I was expecting something more from Joker Folie a Deux I was greatly disappointed.
Same with me with the first. I'm glad Arthur has been portrayed as a caricature of a dem supporter, now it all makes sense.
This movie was supposed to be a one-off story they only made a second one bcuz the first movie was so successful. Todd Philips didn't know what to do with this movie barely something happened on this movie. The performances by Joaquin Pheonix and Lady Gaga were amazing and the musical aspects unlike others I enjoyed it a lot tbh. The cinematography was top-notch too. The thing is on the first movie they made us root for joker made us sympathize for joker but on this movie it didn't we felt that joker deserved all of the punishments and there are some scenes on the trailer that aren't on the movie. The ending was the worst they made fun of heath ledger's joker and not only that it was unnecessary they could've made a way better ending to this movie but they didn't. This movie was not needed at all and if they really wanted to make a sequel then they could've made a 40 minute special or something like that cuz you could clearly see that they didn't had a single idea to where to go with this movie. As I said I liked the musical aspects a lot tbh the songs were great too but the timing for those songs were not on some scenes like when joker and harley quinn are talking suddenly they start to sing and the music starts and that was bad for the movie the timing was bad. They could've made this movie grounded like the previous one was but they decided to go the risky way and to make it a musical which was a bad step on itself. Overall this movie had potential but was executed poorly so my rating for this movie is 4/10.
The Joker is nothing without Batman and Arthur is nothing without Yhe Joker. This never was about the Joker it was about a mentally ill man that society completely let down and he fell further into madness. Enter a girl who who fell for the broken piece of the man fooling him into thinking she loved him for who he was. I think it is an interesting take on the way people exploit mental illness
Todd Philips said that this was never the Joker, he just used the Joker IP to slip a "real" movie into the studio system.
When the director even says its not the Joker, its not the Joker.
Hey Boba, I want to know what happened…Todd cooked with the first one…the second one just feels pointless and nonsensical…don’t get me wrong J1 isn’t perfect buts it’s good but j2, is just a mess and THAT Ending…oh boy 💀
I think I somewhat address this in the review with regards to his intentions with what the message behind the movie is, and also how it pertains to the first film in retrospect. The thing is, that just might not be what a lot of people signed up for going in to see a 'JOKER' story.
@@BobaTalks your right, I didn’t hate it I just think it was little disappointing and not as good as the first imo
I’m convinced Todd made the movie bad on purpose to insult the fans of the first one and WB for wanting to milk it
The first Joker was garbage and this sequel holds to the first movie.
A mentally ill Karen isn't what the Joker represents and hopefully now the Joker can go back to representing chaos.
@@zane4575 yes traditional joker does but this isn’t a traditional joker plus I’m looking at it as a movie…Not a comic book movie
29:05 I agree; the cinematography of this film is what has me telling coworkers to watch the film. I am conflicted about this film. I do like the ideology aspect because that is how Batman views himself, but I just don’t think Todd Phillips pulled it off 100%. Only 2 people walked out of the theater though in my showing 😅🤣
😅😂
If i were an executive. I would’ve gave’em the same 55 million and told’em make it work. Probably offer phoenix and pillips points on the movie instead of cash
This movie truly made me upset, the first film is such a treasure to be kept in a locket & yet they open that treasure & they spill it all over the place, that’s my analogy with Joker 2 in a nutshell. I’d be ignorant to say that I hated every scene in the film which is not true, I liked the scene that regards Gary & Arthur & I liked the musical numbers they chose even tho they felt out of place at times plus there were times where I felt bad for Arthur. But those praises doesn’t help me like the film, the script, & the writing. This film I felt like wasn’t made for the CB fans which is so weird to say. Like you said, this should’ve been a one & done. Plus leave it untouched & left us believe that Arthur was going to be THE Joker. But nonetheless, it’s gonna be hard for me to rewatch the first film after what happens in 2 which really burns me up.
When you look at it overall! Todd Phillips has Created 2 Joker Movies that are Not about the Actual Joker!! It just seems weird to me! Shouldn't have gone down this route.
It's videos like this makes me a big fan of yours,Boba.Cuz you does be the sound of reason and logic.Instead of just hating on it to get views.I,personally enjoyed the film.But I know it's not perfect.
You have been a very vocal and loud supporter of this movie defending all of its creative choices along the way. U are the main reason I held out hope and for me personally it didn’t deliver sadly. Love Gaga and musicals and of course Comicbook movies but this failed on every level- but at least we get more new Gaga music for that I’ll forever be grateful!!!
So this is a dark look at what created the "joker" persona? This is like a weird twist on how batman has created so many other bat "family" because he was a symbol instead of just rich boy vigilante. The ultimate goal is admirable, but the execution right now when DC has been on such a great run of bat stories fell short. On the bright side, maybe this will inspire some really good aspects of Joker in later iterations.
how I think they should have done a sequel is by not doing a direct sequel... by this I mean one of two things...
1) maybe make it an anthology series where each movie is a different origin for Joker. this would be a call back to the line "sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another. if I am going to have a past I prefer it to be multiple choice"
2) this is the more traditional idea. I would have made this movie focus on Harleen Quinzell and opened it up with her being this good rich catholic girl with parents who are pushing her to be an Olympic gymnast and straight A grades and stay pure. pretty much a commentary on being forced into perfection. when she sees the Murry Franklin incident something inside her just breaks and she falls in love with the idea of joker. the entire first half would be her slowly going crazy in her own right and burning down her childhood home while going off to school for her Phycology degree.
the 2nd half of the movie would focus on her going to Arkham to interview Arthur for "school or whatever" and then manipulating him to bring out the joker. here you can show how his doctor is pushing for split personality and Lee doesn't like that idea. she can splash her family name and money to get alone time with him (like in the movie already) and do the thing they do. movie can then follow her as she follows the trial and is an advocate for joker. Joker can eventually fire his Lawer and rep himself, still do the 2-character testimonies from this movie and again follow it from Lee's point of view.
for the end I would have had it more ambiguous. write it so the people in the theater believe the case could go either way and right before the jury give the verdict have the bomb go off killing the jury and scaring Harvy Dent. Joker and Lee escape into the city with help of all the Joker fans and the movie ends with them having a conversation and Lee realizing that Arthur is really just a broken man hiding behind the makeup. she breaks up with him and leaves him laughing (in one of his laughing fits while crying) in a dark sewer drain or something somewhere. the Musical numbers in the movie I would have used primarily as a Lee thing and to show more so her decent into madness from having a life where she felt forced to be perfect, but Joker set her free, her idolizing this idea of Joker, and finally her realizing that the Joker is not what she wanted him to be.
then if they wanted, they could do a Harvey Dent Movie picking up with his duality of "i tried to be the nice guy but this world isn't nice" type of deal and now that he is scared his Bi-Polar side leaves a lot of decisions to chance with a coin or something idk.
That is exactly what I said. Even the director doesn't like his own movie😂😂😂🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
I just think of the three Jokers storyline and I enjoy it a bit more
Arthur's lawyer was right. He did have a split personality. And he was going to succeed in proving himself insane. But Puddles and Ricky tragedy snapped Arthur back into control. The Joker in Arthur died when he heard Ricky die because of the misplaced faith in him.
I’ve been excited to hear your thoughts
We didn't do anything, Todd Phillips is the Joker in the end. He didn't want to make a sequel no more than Hangover 3, so like that movie he went scorched earth on the material.
Been waiting on this…
The part where the movie took a turn for me was when he returned to arkham and he got beat and i think raped, and also heard the fellow inmate get strangled. He had just gone full joker and embraced it, then suddenly flips the switch. i thought that would only make him go 1000% joker. I didn't get that part, which, in my opinion, flawed the movie for me. I was actually enjoying it up till then.
Not saying it’s a good choice, but I’m shocked at the amount of people who expected Arthur to be the actual Joker.
He isn’t a genius or a criminal mastermind, Todd Phillips has said this.
By the time Bruce would be of age to become Batman, this Joker would be in his 70s
He is completely unequipped to handle a such a physical and intellectual threat like Batman.
Again, whether or not this was a good narrative choice is a different convo, but after watching the first film I NEVER thought Arthur was actually THE Joker. I thought the whole point of the first film’s ending is that he’d inspire the real one. Thought everybody felt the same 🤷♂️
Why can’t anyone just accept the ending for what it is nobody is saying the inmate is gonna become Joker and torture Bruce later in life he can just be seen as a crazy guy you even said yourself the whole point of elseworlds is to stray away from what’s normal why is it that we can have 3 jokers in a comic book and not 2 in 1 film
It’s crazy how much more epic the first film felt, despite having around a quarter of the budget of this one.
Late night video time with boba alright
So glad I never gave this shit a chance 😂 I knew from the first film these aren’t joker films at all they just have the name of him and that’s it. Let’s put an end to these “realistic” representations of the universe and get our long served comic accurate adaptations!
Are u going to make a video about the Christopher reeves documentary? It was great.
Maybe - I haven't been able to see it as it wasn't showing where I live :/
I get where both the positive and negative opinions come from. Someone mentioned not fully understanding it for what it is, and honestly, that’s the key-try seeing it from that angle. It’s like an anti-blockbuster. A big-budget social experiment. The title itself is tricky to search for or even spell unless you’re French. It’s not about fan service either. It’s always been “Joker,” not “The Joker.” “Origin story,” not “the origin story.” At its core, it’s entertainment, and the film’s slogan, “The world is a stage,” directly nods to the song “That’s Entertainment.” This isn’t a troll piece; it’s a commentary on how everything, including human suffering, is turned into something consumable, glossing over real struggles. In that sense, it’s actually unique.
The film highlights themes like societal abuse, neglect, exploitation, and how we often misunderstand mental illness, all wrapped in a bit of chaotic fun. Sure, the pacing and some of the musical numbers are off-some don’t even have rhythm-and there are awkward moments like the “You cut your hair?” line. It’s like, “Yeah, I was about to shoot myself, but sure, I got a haircut instead.” It’s messy, but we can all agree on that.
Gaga’s character, Lee, is like a reflection of the audience. With each court hearing, she starts to look more like the Joker. She makes up her entire backstory to match his. She’s not after his trust-she’s after the illusion she talks about at the end. She tricks him into thinking that the Joker persona is what everyone expects from him. That’s why he was standing on that car at the end of the first movie. When Arthur rejects becoming the Joker everyone wanted, Lee leaves the courtroom disappointed, just like some audience members left the theater. No one cared about Arthur’s mental illness-they just wanted Joker, the violence, the spectacle, and all the chaos tied to the character.
Few people really dive deep into this movie; most get stuck on the surface-level stuff.
As for the music, it’s important. His laughter is his pain, and music is his peace. Musical numbers have been a huge part of film history-without them, we’d still be watching silent movies. So, it’s hard to understand why some people are so dismissive of it. With comic book movies dominating Hollywood, this one feels like a bridge between classic American cinema and today’s hits.
In the end, it’s an art piece. It’s post, it’s neo, it’s meta. Whether you like it or not comes down to personal taste. Both parts play with the intellectual property in a way that defies labels-it’s not meant to be overanalyzed. Our consciousness is complex, and with a bit of radical acceptance, you can find peace with that. It challenges you to learn that. As James Baldwin said, “Artists are here to disturb the peace,” and in the echo chamber surrounding this film, that’s exactly what it does. Also, with this level of discussion the potential for a future cult classic kinda tickles my brain :)
This... This comment needs way more likes. People are failing to see the movie for what it is because they aren't looking at right. The people givinb this bad reviews are just like the people who walk out of the courtroom when he admits joker isnt real.
This is the exact approach that the TV show gotham took after Theo Galavan kills Jerome
More accurately when Gordon shoots Jerome off the rooftop :P
Well said
For some reason, I really enjoyed this film. I thought it was a unique way to make the film with the musical aspects and then ending blew my mind.
So, what actually happened to the Joker after the trial, when the guards pulled him into the shower and stripped off his clothes?
He wasn’t wet afterward.
What went down there?
Just saw it. Nowhere near as bad as critics are saying and the musical numbers were pretty good too.
Lady gaga was definitely a stand out.
At the end of the day, only the fact that it’s called “joker”…Both films are ok on they’re own… But they should’ve been called like “Life of a clown” or something like that and not be DC related at all…
It’s ok to have a strong opinion and dislike a movie. You don’t always have to play the grey, middle ground area on everything.
Or how about Shawn, when I attempt to look at everything as comprehensively as I can when making reviews like this - That it is possible to offer both critique of a movie's flaws, and praise where it's done something I can dig. I feel like just it's too black and white of a take for me to just be like 'nah, terrible' when that's just not what I feel. The movie isn't great, but it absolutely has aspects to it which can be appreciated despite on the bottom line the plot not being my preference of direction.
This is what happens when you don't have any other movies to copy 💀
If I woke up with Lee in my jail cell I’d be giddy too 😅
Bruh
I just watched Joker Folie a Deux and i have to say idk what to think about it Like there were some parts i like it ( like Arthur and Harley rape scene or Guards of Arkham beating him up brutaly) i'm not even mad about musical sequences there were ok but more about the plot I mean what was the point of the first Like what was the fucking point of Arthur becoming Joker becoming a monster a murder to him fight against his shadow his Joker persona and wanted to be normal person again and be killed by crazy inmate at the end of the sequel ? What was the point of this movie what was the point of the first one then ? They could easly do a plot like let's say 40 minutes about Joker being in Arkham watching him being beating up tortured by guards and then boom courtroom explotion escape scene and idk just him doing chaos in Gotham but noo they give is smth like this 💀 although i love cinematography in this film and the score is absolutly amazing Phoenix and Gaga performance were oustanding but i really don't know what to think about it like i kind of like this movie but at the same time i don't get it it shouldn't exist maybe i will give it a rewatch when it will be avaible on Max but i say this it's not a trash movie some parts were cool it's just shouldn't be called Joker Folie a Deux it should be more like Arthur and fight against shadow 😂it could'v been much better my rating is 5/10 for now maybe it might get higher after rewatch but i doubt it soo quoting awful quote "T-T-That's all Foolks 🤡🚬"
Happy late Birthday, Boba. When was your birthday, October 2nd?
Cheers Billy, it was indeed :)
Awesome. I turned 31 on September 17th. I hope you had a great day that day.
@@BobaTalks Happy Birthday, Boba!!
It was always about Arthur to me so I liked it. They certainly did finish the story though didn't they.
Yeah, I'm still puzzled why this Arthur was ever being sold as Joker.
Cashing in on Heath Ledgers Joker to push a movie about a stunted Karen?
He took the name Joker from his former idle calling him one on TV it was never about the comic character as you said
To me it was a movie that wasnt needed BUT i do see a good movie there. Its not awful but i do see the good in it.
I actually really liked this bad bad movie
Folie a deux is fully a deuce (imo)
I love this movie and think its legit better than the first one
The movie is incredibly bleak and depressing and I don’t have a problem with dark movies because I loved The Batman but this one was just constantly bleak all the way and hard to get through in my opinion. There were also certain things that were just done for shock value.
Did Todd Phillips pull a Gotham with the joker?
This movie was mean-spirited misery porn.
I feel like this film only released because Gunn and Safran werent able to cancel it due to studio politics. There's no way they saw and liked this film. It seems like a complete grift on the IP.
This movie had nothing to do with Gunn and Safran it was in production long before they took over this was the last remnants of previous executives. This was WB proper. Gunn said everything after the Joker is DC studios so Penquin went into production when they took over so that is a DC studios movie and The Batman 2 will be a DC studios movie even though they still fall under Else worlds classification since it isn't part of the DCU over all story
i left the theater, feeling totally defeated, so i guess the movie did its job. im taking a shot of addressing the problems, ive had with it, since this feeling of utter defeat is heavily boosted, by the backlash, it received. to address it, ill dive into SPOILERS!!!!!
this film was frustrating, its definitely flawed and the way the musical aspects are woven into the narrative, makes said narrative stops dead in its tracks, every time the musical fantasy becomes more elaborate- and by design, it will be jarring, theres a contrast, especially in the last act, that reinforces said effect. with all that out of the way, i will say, that this movie emotionally affected me, far more, than the first one ever did and i was on board, with that one, empathizing with arthur, every step of the way.
this movie deconstructs most of the first film, in some very frustrating ways- my main issues were, as follows
1. if youre going the route of integrating musical elements and portraying it as an elaborate fantasy, i think its a missed opportunity, to write original music, for your characters, especially when your composer previously won an oscar. i got why they chose to go with old fashioned american songbook tunes and imo it works half of the time, but theres definitely some instances, of the song not furthering the narrative, or stopping it dead in its tracks. they couldve cut about 4 songs out of the movie and it wouldve benefited the flow.
2. while on the subject of cut material, its clear from the trailers alone, that portions of the film were cut, especially regarding lee- gaga does good, with what shes given, but i cant help but feel, that she was originally a more rounded character (a pun on her clearly having a baby bump, in one of the cut scenes), but that she got sidelined, because this is ultimately arthurs story and they didnt want to lose sight of that fact.
3. it being arthurs story is an exact mirror image of the first films narrative- where youre led to believe, that the first ends with arthur transforming into the joker, this film is about his letting go, of this construct, letting go of the fantasy. you can argue the point, since a good bit of the first one was only playing out in his head, that it should have been more of a struggle, for him, to let go, of his persona.
4. the way hes quite literally forced, to let go of the joker persona, is frankly tasteless. the heavily implied rape from the guards seemed like an overreaction, to what was merely an unspecified name drop, in the courtroom- what seems to break him, is that they kill his only friend and this, in combination with garys testimony, finally makes him realize, the kind of impact hes had. while i appreciated, that it showed arthur still had some empathy left, (despite the state psychiatrist claiming, one of his psychological issues, being a lack of such), it felt like a quick, brutal solution, that i feel couldve been achieved more organically, in court.
5. while on the court topic, i will say that harvey dent seemed like a caricature, of a smug lawyer- its yet another missed opportunity, to have dent be the one, to make the case against arthurs dual identity, when harvey dent traditionally has his own struggles, with said diagnosis, arguably to a much heavier degree. one can make the case, that after this case and him being minimally disfigured, by the bomb going off, said events may influence his stance, on duality, further down the road, also furthering the theme of arthurs influence, on people. as it stands, hes just this smug guy, who seems to think the courtroom is his audition, for a modelling gig.
6. addendum to the courtroom scenes- i realize, im probably very much in the minority, but i actually appreciated, that some of the events of the first movie were clarified. i never was a fan of the read, that the whole first movie might have been in his head, a theory, heavily argued for, by a majority, as being the joke, that arthur replies to, with you wouldnt get it. getting that isnt clever, it was always dumb, because it not only destroys any purpose for a narrative, it also goes against the idea, of empathizing with arthur, which was my big takeaway, of both movies. i will also say, that for the attentive viewer, theres quite a few examples, when it can be seen, that arthur is imagining things, which purposefully have been edited- one example of that, comes in the very beginning of the movie, during the bus scene, with the kid. when the camera pans back, after the argument with the kids mother, the kid isnt there anymore. i also never felt, that sophie and her kid surviving, was left ambigious, in the context of what weve come to know, about arthur.
7. last, but definitely not least, ill address the elephant in the room- the ending. it baffles me, how many people tried to tie this in, with heath ledgers joker, despite neither timelines, nor events, nor actors ages and appearances, line up with the nolan trilogy. while on the subject of the nolan trilogy, it had a pretty similar ending, to this one and i for one, found it way harder, to buy into the idea, of john robin blake taking up the bat-mantle, when comparing it, to the joker, as being this shadow, that will always be there, as an influence. it does make more sense to me, especially because the symbol of batman, is too specific to bruce, in my mind. while on the topic of bruce, i found it very interesting, that pretty much everyone from part 1, that survived, was brought back, except him. in retrospect, it does make the wayne family plot point of the first feel kind of tacked on, but i feel, it was done on purpose, to separate it further, from the source material. its not hard to understand, why many fans of comic book movies will feel, like theyre being pranked, but its a tragic prank, as written by arthur fleck. arthur fleck who? this point wouldve gone over better, if they didnt make harley closer to her source material, than expected, only to completely flip the dynamic, that joker and harley have, in said source material. everything gets turned on its head. so yes, its kind of a mess, on purpose and the decisions are often baffling, but for me at least, there was still genuine emotional investment and i knew, that this numbness, after leaving the theatre, was the point, not a clever, (like some have interpreted the ending of the first one), but a deeply emotionally resonant one. warts and all, this has genuinely touched me deeply, more than any film ive seen in the theatres, since the last one. arguing whats the point, is missing and proving said point- collectively we didnt care about arthur, we wanted to see joker. we wanted escapism and got something uncomfortably real and the contrast, in the fantastical musical numbers, made it land even heavier and ive felt anxious, every time the flick came to a grinding halt, when musical sequences faded to black and we got thrown back, into reality. as an audience weve been collectively taught, to expect certain things, from a franchise movie and this film, if nothing else, exists, to defy these expectations and i for one, cant help, but respect it, for that, while still understanding perfectly, why this wont go over well, for a lot of people. it has made me think and feel a lot, since i came out of the cinema- about the last 20 years and how these franchises have turned into the flogging of a dead horse, yet somehow, a flick like deadpool and wolverine taking up the mantle, of biggest R rated film off of joker, feels like a statement, about where we are, both artistically and collectively- easy sarcasm, cameos and even characters being reduced to memes- you contrast this with the honest sentiment, of an old timey song, sung slightly off key, but genuinely vulnerable, naked, stripped, like arthur was, of any pretense. and while i wont argue against todd phillips very own pretensions, the character of arthur fleck will stay with me and cast a shadow.
I don’t hate it. But I will pretend it doesn’t exist
Like the first movie, it exists. I hope there's a 3rd movie so you can watch that and pretend that doesn't exist either.
I don’t understand what the problem is
I have not seen it yet not sure I will now, well not in the cinema
i loved it so much and it made me love the first even more
Wait till you watch a movie with a true portrayal of the Joker, you'll hate it.
Because you're happy you're not really watching a Joker movie lol.
This film is a masterpiece!!!!!
A master piece of dookie!
You're lying
If Boba was a movie director his name would be Francis Ford Cope a Lot. I'm joking of course Boba. Love you and i'm glad you enjoyed aspects of this movie. In all honesty i think you are reading waaaaaaay too much into everything and based on this movie i'm pretty sure Todd Phillips had absolutely no clue what was the message he was trying to send in either movie. Bro should have been happy he made so much money from the first film and called it quits. And don't even get me started on the ending. Shameful!
I actually loved it. He always felt like Joker but not quite like Joker, he isn't the agent of chaos and disorder who is a terrorist/mastermind/crime boss for sake of a msg/laughs or Batman. And never was going to be. Joker isn’t a tragic/sympathetic-emo reactionary + can ya see a 70 yr old Arthur fighting Batman? Bruce is a kid. Arthur served as the proto / inspiration w/ that ending and that Joker more of an ideology. (Also, in comics they did a 3 Joker story)
I think that’s the problem w/those who have issues. Everyone had their minds made assumed he was just Joker - for me I never completely felt it. Missing a point they cannot see w/o feeling that way too. Lot more nuanced than those to just say it was a rehash of first. He didn’t feel alone anymore. Fell in love. And for him to be love starved / touch starved. Imagine how’d that make him feel and after 2 yrs he was in Arkham, he became far removed from Joker /fantasy world and his acts. As compared to who he was his whole life. Still experiencing same things. And he was never loved for who he is and why it might cause a split. But we saw Different perspectives and ramifications for first. Got to hear even more testimonies how awful his mom was, endured, there wasn’t anything to build upon or develop cause he’s a version of Joker but he’s not. And never going to be.
His death. Can think of it as him dying by hand of an obsessed fan betrayed on tv like Murr-ARY. But he cuts a smile, laughs to take it on - you know how monumental that would be to make a mark, for how Arthur and his killings impacted Gotham. We seen bits enough of him, that blind side makes it even more powerful. Ideology of Joker passed/embraced, til next. not a tragically doomed life Arthur was in the end.He couldn’t claim being Joker cause of awful things done to him and who he was truly at his core but got what he f******* deserved ;).. Can’t remember if it was said but how much more tragic was if visitor is Lee he was on his way to see.
Oh yeah Loved Dent low key becoming Twoface
Blatant cash grab. I saw that coming when they announced Harley Quinn would be involved.
Noting to talk about it’s a bad movie have a good day
I still think it's not a good movie. It's just a bad sequel. The kind of film that hurts the first movie while not making anything substantial to follow up with. It feels like what they were going for was picking a fight with the audience. Which isn't a great plan.
A collection of baffling choices.
Already seen the movie three times. Absolutely amazing to me and I loved the direction taken with the sequel. Big Broadway and Jazz fan as well so the style of music really appealed to me. The deconstruction of the Joker persona was fantastic and Fleck didn't need some grandiose ending.
Excellent, because when I think of the Joker I immediately think of Jazz and Broadway lol
@@zane4575 Cool man.
There are good things about this movie, yes. But overall, and especially taking the completely pointless musical scenes into account, this movie was an horrendous idiotic mess. The point that it does end up making, was barely even worth making a movie for. It needed way more plot, and a few twists and turns
1. It's not cannon, it's "Elseworlds;" *ahem* Ever hear the name Arthur Fleck before the first movie?
2. It was a pretty decent flick, especially Gaga's performance.
3. *spoiler* The "real" (Elseworlds) Joker is revealed at the end.
Decent, not great, flick.
8/10 for me. Less musical would be 9/10
😎😎😎😎😎😎👍🏼 you are cool
great movie in all kinds of ways.
Is it too damn hard to make a decent ‘Mad Love’ adaptation? Kind of pathetic that WB can’t seem to get Harley Quinn right. Margot’s version sucked ass, too.
Hi boba can you say hi to me 🤟
'ello Luis
I'm so excited to watch it just based of how insane people are reacting to it
🤡💩🗑
Soon as i seen gaga was in it i KNEW it would be a waste of time. She ruins everything
Gaga was great with what she was given :)
@@BobaTalksthey just look for an easy target (a woman) to blame instead of the men actually responsible for this mess
It's all good now. Arthur was never the Joker, just a typical mentally ill left wing nut job. Bullet dodged, and now we can get a real portrayal of a Joker ruled by chaos, the way Heath Ledger would have wanted it.
It’s hard to make that argument when the US right-wing has affiliates like Laura Loomer, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Mark Robinson.
Maybe it narratively works in the long run so when James Gunn launches his DC universe we’ll get a more comic accurate version of the joker
@@Who_Tye709 I doubt it. Jack Nicholson’s Joker was fairly comics accurate, with the notable exception of being the man who k•lled the Waynes. I don’t think fans want to see a similar version.
@@steelwayneoh good, you give 3 examples while I'm using the left wing's Ideology of victimhood and mob tyranny to justify pretty much the same perspective Arthur has.
That's not really addressed to you specifically, although it's a more than fair assessment, it's to show how far that portrayal is from THE Joker who is only a function of Chaos.
@@steelwayneWilliam Dafoe with a far darker and unhinged version of the Green Goblin.
Less about dancing and court drama and more about terror planned for Gotham.
Get the Joker back on track.
First
A JOKER MOVIE THATS NOT ABOUT BATMAN OR JOKER?!?!!?! HE USED THE DC NAME TO MAKE A SH?TTY MOVIE
I agree that is annoying, but if this movie was good, it would have been worth it, especially if it introduced the real Joker who was to go on and be part of a series of batman movies
Imo it was a good story, but a poor watching experience mostly because of the mishandling of the musical element.
IMO it’s kind of a brilliant idea and really opened the floodgates for something new and exciting, but it was far from that, as the jukebox nature of the songs meant that the songs weren’t specific enough narratively. Sondheim once said bad songs are forgiveable but wrong songs aren’t, and all the songs here were “wrong”.
Watch the movie Annette with Adam Driver to see how a dark modern musical could have been done
Lol mate, I think you miss the point. It's not that the songs are wrong, it's the fact the Joker was wildly misrepresented and in the end shown not to BE the Joker.
What a steaming pile of turd for those wanting a Joker movie lol.
@@zane4575Missed whose point?
Woke garbage
What
Not woke at all
@@dcmastermindfirst9418 You're lying
I loved it. I think most individuals went in with the wrong expectations.
Loved the movie as well. It's like this was The Last Jedi for many folks in terms of subverted expectations.
@@TheZackBriggs Too bad for this movie that people are more picky these days. Subverting expectations in this and the Last Jedi is just code word for trying to annoy the audience. And surprisingly people don't want to spend money to be annoyed.
@@Flaris Cool 😎
Yeah, I think people going into the movie expecting the Joker were CLOWNS.
Damn fools, it's not even like the movie says the Jok....er.
Oh wait lol.
@@FlarisGood take. Selling a movie on the back of previous goodwill for the Joker and then completely misrepresenting the character for shits and giggles at the cost of your money reeks to me.