I would love to see some examples. I feel like that would take a lot of time since you have to shoot the control pictures on a different roll from the push and pull roll!
@@michaelangeloh.5383 Actually, 8 years later there is still no information on times (math) for fulling film per stop of overexposure. Pushing though there is a plethora of it
I think another advantage or real use case of pulling and pushing is adjusting light level: e.g. you have light and shadows to far away such as in an indoor scene with a window and you want to take a picture which shows the inside view of a room and the outside view from the window pulling will help you to make that possible. Pushing will help you get a more punchy picture if you only have flat light available. So it is not only for low light circumstances.
I shot Portra 400 at 3200 at a show the other weekend along with Fuji C200 at 1600. In fact if I know it's going to be low light I always push films like these. They will be grainy, but it's pretty and I like the richness of the colours and textures that can't be imitated with digital presets as much as they try (even if they could I wouldn't, one medium imitating the other is tacky to me. I love both for the record). I sometimes push when there is bright daylight even. However, I do not develop pushed or pulled rolls myself, I use a fantastic lab I mail to for that. If I shoot box speed and I can follow the recipe then I develop my own. Sometimes there is an image I know I don't want to risk ruining. It'd be interesting for you to do a video on 'grain aliasing' regarding scanning certain films, especially pushed/pulled, I don't know if it's a 'thing' but I'm beginning to think it is. I aquired an old Nikon LS-2000 recently that might do this, the scanner mildly accentuates the grain perhaps,. I'm not sure yet. Obviously if you zoom in the grain becomes noticeably pixelated at a certain point and this must affect the tonal range somewhat (though I'm still impressed with the amount it picks up uncompressed from a refurbished 20 year old obsolete film scanner than a recent upper range flatbed say), but those old Coolscans really reproduce a faithful image compared side by side with the prints I've made in the dark room, but there is a noticeable difference in fineness. I think you could just about get away with a faithful looking 40 inch wide print depending on the printer before it became unsightly. I've not printed anything off from it so far, just used the measuring tape against the monitor. Anyway, rambling on. Shorthand here is you're underexposing the negative then pushing (over developing) the processing time, pulling is the reverse overexposing and under developing. With pushing the underexposure will lose you shadow detail hence the contrast while the highlights may be blown from the over development, the pay off is the gorgeous over saturation of the mid tones from it 'soaking' in the chemicals longer. That's my understanding at least. I had a friend who thought she was 'pushing' film for years just by rating it differently, when in fact she was just underexposing it and having it developed normally. I did a mental face palm when I realised. They came out ok though! One stop here or there, I'm completely loose with it myself sometimes. Some films have loads of latitude.
Slide films can also be pushed / pulled. I regularly shoot Fuji Provia 100F at 200 and push +1, the results are fantastic and almost no different to normal. I even sometimes shoot it at 320 and have it pushed +2 stops and the results are also very good although the contrast gets very high.
Thank you. That was very clear and helpful. I'm returning the Kodak Portra 160 (mistakenly sent) in exchange for the Portra 400. I'm excited to try it out. Does the same "side effects" happen with color film or just black & white?
+Brian-Marc Whittaker most people over expose colour negatives anyway so i recommend shooting one stop over exposed. But feel free to try pushing it it will definitely have an interesting effect
I am probably a bit late with this reply but the only developer you can use for a 5 stop over exposure is Perceptol. Do a clip test at about 6 minutes in stock solution at 20 deg.
Oh, and not being able to change the iso for the entire roll of 35 mm... you can note how many exposures on a partially shot roll, re wind it ... helpful if you stop rewinding when you feel it pull off the take up/ crank side so the already exposed leader is at least partially out. My f6 can be set for that or use an extractor if wound into the cassette. Mark the cassette for iso and # of shots. Reload another roll with a different iso and you have changed iso. You can re load what was the partial roll, put on the lens cap and cover the view finder/go to f/22 1/1000 and start firing off frames til you get one past where you left off as insurance. You can then shoot that at the iso you had used. So in fact, you can change iso, just not on the same roll.
Sometimes people use EI to indicate Exposure Index rather than Exposure Indicator. I'm not sure what the official expansion of I is but whether indicator or index, it is what the film was actually shot at.
I have pushed Tri-x allot. I love that film. Yes if pushing you are committed to the whole roll, but I heard there is a way around that by instead of rodinal, using Diafine. Any thoughts on that Ted or others... Greg
can I ask, for film cameras, how do you metering films with different ISO? when metering, does the camera consider all films as certain default ISO? 100/ 400? e.g. canon AE-1 metering for ILFORD delta 100 and ILFORD delta 3200? is there any formulas we should follow? thanks
so what about if I push the film for a shot that I need more light (in a shadowed alley let's say) and then I need to shoot a sunny scene and set the ISO to film standard (same roll of film)..Is that doable or it's going to ''ruin'' the photos?I'm confused or just stupid
Hi when you modifie the ISO on digital it ils the same thing that you are doing in film, you amplifie or reduce the signal that you have in the raw file , same as pushing/ Pulling when you develop film
So if I'd shoot the same scene with a 400 Iso Film @200, then again with a 100 ISO film at 200, there'd be differences in contrast. Is the grain comparable then though, or is there still a huge difference between the pulled 400 and the pushed 200 film? thanks !
Lately, I'm experimenting a lot with the pushing, I've shot quite few tri-x at 3200 both on day and night in London, I'm currently shooting one at 6400 and next at 12800, I know it's a lot, but as I said I'm experimenting. Last week I shot a FP4 native 125, expired 10 years ago and pushed to 800, it came out beautiful, next, I would try Ilford Delta 3200 pushed at 6400. All developed with HC 110 (B).
ASA= American Standards Association ISO= International Standards Organization You make a distinction between ASA and ISO. The ASA film speed is exactly the same as the same number ISO film speed. ISO just replaced ASA. Tri-X has an ASA film speed of 400 and it has anISO film speed of 400. You do not set the meter at an ISO number and then take pictures at an ASA number. The only time you have to ever think about ASA is if your cameras are marked ASA at the point where you set the film speed, or if you are reading old photography books/magazines Tri-X shot at a meter setting of ISO 1600 and developed in Diafine used to provide an acceptable speed increase with fine grain without suffering from increased contrast. Many of my college bw photography assignments were developed in Diafine.
ok.. I have a question since I am a bit confused here with the explanation. If I wanted to push 400 asa film to 800 doesnt that mean that I need more light since the 400 speed film is less sensitive than 800 asa film? At 800 a film is more sensitive to light meaning it needs less exposure time. Again, thank you for taking the time in addressing my question and thank you for the video
Gabe Quezada you need less light because youre pretending that youre shooting an 800 asa speed film instead of a 400 asa speed film. you compensate for the ‚underexposure‘ by developing longer.
Your videos are really great Ted. Very helpful and informative! I especially love the ones you made on Saul Leiter, as I'm a big fan. Can you recommend any photographers that are a little similar to Leiter?
You could shoot at different ISO but you will need to know what is the right frame to cut. Take your camera and find how far the first frame is cranked. Then get some sticks that you can measure the film in the dark room with. What you want to do is take one or two photos of nothing important or just leave the lens cap on. Cut the film and you will now have to develop those strips by them self. It might take a little practice to learn how to do it.
Hi Ted, I need your help and experience :) do you have any ideas on develop times (20 Celsius tank process, Fomadon R09 developer -similar to Rodinal- 1:25 dilution), when i got 2 35mm rolls of Ilford Pan 400, exposed @ Iso 100, so I need to pull 2 stops. this is the first time i've ever trying something like that, so i thought you have some experience with these negatives and develop times! Thank you :)
Very interesting video! I'm shooting a wedding in a few days and the color film body will have Kodak 400 film in it which I was planning to pull to 300 because it is expired stock from the 90's. The film was in a cupboard for years. Am I on the right track?
Always overexpose expired film stock by 1 stop. Even with unexpired film, I tend to overexpose by 1 stop since for color film it's better to be over than under. Highlights in film do not wash out like that of digital sensors.
Thank you so much for this video. Now the EXIF data for medium format cameras makes so much more sense to me, when viewing shots on Flickr. It would really be cool if you did a video on what some of the EXIF, Tags and Info that Photographers include on Flickr means... I'm having to learn the hard way.
Very nice video bit no one ever answers the push pull question completely . If I want to push one stop what might the average time addition in the processing be . 1 minute, 4 minutes Where do I start to get that 1 stop push effect. Also if I don't want to push it but just increase the contrast I guess if you want to just increase contrast you are at the same time pushing it even if the exposure was proper. ????
+Ronald Ergen Hi Ron. In answer to your part of your question..... If you push a film one stop, then you have to increase your box speed development time by 1 + 20% Shown as 'n+1' Which means.... if it was this simple.... that normal development was 5 min dev by adding 20% to the dev time would increase the dev time by 1 min, eg 5x1.2= 6 min dev time. However, pushing by 2 tops will be 'N+2' Which will be 5min x1.2=6 6x1.2=7.2 min. If you pull one stop then you will divide by 20%, reducing your development time to 4.167min. Clear as mud I know but stick with it and you will suss it out :-) If you want to increase your contrast at box speed then shoot one stop under exposed and increase your box speed development time by 20% and if you want to decrease your contrast then do the opposite.I hope this helps a little :-) RegardsIain
okay so i have a question about pulling if i put kodak 400 into my camera and set my camera iso for 100 do i have to tell the lab to pull for 2 stops or say nothing and have them develop at the normal time for Kodak 400 im trying to get a beautiful over exposed background while exposing under the chin of people for portraits
if you correctly metered on your subjects, assuming they're backlit, I'd have the lab pull one stop. -1, so your 400 box speed film was rated at 100 (-2) but I'd have it developed as if you rated it at 200. Your shadow detail should remain, and the highlights shouldn't be clipped. TriX has great latitude, I'd honestly just pull 1 stop.
If it's color film you don't need to tell the lab anything. If it's black and white I would specify. For example the times for processing Tri-x @ 100 and @ 400 are about a minute or two apart and I've seen it mentioned online that it makes little difference but I have tested this myself and can tell you the difference is quite significant and could potentially ruin a great shot.
Pushing and pulling is a lot better if you've determined the exact film speed and development time for a partiicular film with your standard film, equipment, agitation technique and printing.
I've had problems with grain even when shooting my HP5 at 400 ISO. I know my temperature has been consistent at 20 degrees Celsius. Can you help me with a video on temperature or agitation? I think maybe grain has something to do with those with developing film yourself? Thank you very much for the videos!
I am about to shoot my first roll of film, I now understand the benefits of pushing and pulling, I noticed that my local lab charges extra to push the film while processing, was just wondering, do people push and pull on the same roll of film? im wondering if the lab would be able to know which exposures to push, which to pull, and which to just process as would be normal?
Hi Ted, im new to this. If i shoot at 1600 on my 400 film, i bring it to the lab and push the film to 1600 means entire roll is developed in 1600. What if some of the photos in the negative i can see they are overexposed can i still pull them back to 800 in postprocess? - i think it's possible but the grains and strong contrast will still be there. am i right? Thanks
Rose Parak you develop the entire role at the same time so it is impossible to develop each shot separately. if you change the settings for each shot, then develop your film, you're gonna get funky results because pushing/pulling need different development needs.
Camille Christenson, I pushed one picture 1 stop by accident, then I continue shooting my roll with the correct iso according to the roll, does changing the iso for only that picture is going to affect my other pictures as well or just the one that I took at that film speed? I would really appreciate if you can help me!
Thanks for the video but I feel like I'm missing something. If I load a 400 film and set the iso to 800, how does that result in the film receiving more light? In my mind, that would tell my metering system that the film is more sensitive, therefore needing faster exposures or smaller apertures to compensate. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding but I had assumed the iso dial was only to inform the metering and didn't inherently change what happened to the film.
Your comment is old but I'll answer anyways. If you load 400 speed film but tell your meter you have 800. You're telling your camera the film is more sensitive than it truly is. When you take your shot at the appropriate exposure, you actually underexposing the shot because the meter is reading 1 stop more light than there really is (400 -> 800 is one stop). Hence the reason to tell the lab or yourself to overdevelop by 1 stop during development. Like wise, if you rate lower from 400 to 200, you're telling the meter there is less light than there truly is and your shots will be overexposed so the film needs less development time. The ISO dial doesn't inherently change the film in any way but it does dictate your exposure settings which will affect the shot.
Am a little confused. If you push film from ISO 400 to 800, you set the film speed on the camera to 800. Since the camera ISO determines how to meter the exposure, you then use the camera reading to take the shot. If you are using an external meter and metered at 800, then does it matter what ISO you set the camera at?
If you're using an external meter it doesn't matter the reading from the in-camera meter. You just need to be in manual mode and set the parameters the external meter gives you related to aperture and shutter speed. Some cameras may have an automatic modes in which they set the aperture and shutter speed (based on the ISO you set the in-camera meter or which is determined by the DX code in the cannister; which is detected automatically by the camera) and other cameras have an internal meter but you gotta set the parameters on your own. You're gonna need to research about your camera to know how it works.
Yes. Pushing refers to the development procedure. You can technically push process underexposed or overexposed film for different tonal ranges and creative effects. What is generally referred to as pushing the film, however, is when you underexpose a film and overdevelop it to compensate.
Another youtuber did a test of hp5 shot from 1 stop under exposed to 7 stops over exposed. At 5 stops over exposed there was hardly any difference with properly exposed one. Try 4 stops over with digital, that is how I get a pure white background in studio and a shot 5 stops over with digital would be pure white. So much for film being hard to use. So for street, if I expose for shadows, I am ok. Also, this film at 400 is pretty low contrast and for my taste, 1600 pushed 2 stops is just right and still minor room to drop shadows. Oh, and its not expensive. My go to 35 mm b&w. MF 3200 also at 1600 so it simplifies exposure although I try to nail the 3200 on stop over exposed as it isnt as forgiving as hp5.
Hi , I have a question, you say you are committed to the entire roll being processed the same. My question involves the Apollo photos , according to NASA the first few pictures on each magazine were exposed in a controlled manner. These first exposures were then cut from the roll and developed first to tweak the development/processing of the priceless lunar photos that followed. Is this pushing/pulling ? Doesn't this contradict the committed to the entire roll statement? Finally is this why in some Apollo photos you can see a faint square outline around the earth?
The technique you are referring to is called a clip test. A small portion of film is cut off and processed first to assess if the development needed to be adjusted for the rest of the film, which could then be pushed/pulled appropriately. I'm not surprised they approached it that way
Ted I wanted to ask if you took just one picture on 800 Iso on a 35mm film that's 400 iOS but the rest of the pictures are at 400 will it mess up your pictures
This was quite some time ago, but if you just get the film developed at the normal 400, the 800 one might be underexposed (as the shutter time was shorter, as the camera thought the film was 800 and more sensitive). - So unless you're able to cut out that one image in a darkroom and develop it differently from the rest, it might just be too dark or dim.
Ted, Please help; I have a Hi-Matic F and shoot only Tri-X with it, BUT I'm having the modern battery/light meter issue (over exposure), so I'm trying to find the Push-Pull balance to get the affect I'm looking for. I have a Y2 filter on it as well. Thanks -Dan
The Art of Photography Sorry, I was really not very clear. I want to account for the over exposure from the light meter, because of the modern batteries. A640's
+Danny Doyle I always get the BEST Colors by Pulling my Color Negative Print Films +2 to +3 Stops ""Over Exposures"" and I get ""Ultra Rich Colors natural, Ultra High Contrasts and ""NO"" Grain by saturating more ""Light"" into my Color Single Lens Reflex Cameras. Example on 400 ISO ASA Color Negative (Process C-41.) Color Films I shoot 400 ISO ASA Color Films at either 100 ISO ASA Setting on my SLR Cameras or ISO ASA 50 on my Film Speed Dials on my Color Negative Print Films or "Use the Compensation Dial to +2 Stops Over Exposure for BEST Color , Ultra HIgh Contrasts and Vivid Rich natural Colors and ""NO"" Grain both because I always ""FREEZE my Color Films Negatives"" then ""Defrost them for 1 Day on a room table before installing them into my 35 mm. SLR Cameras!!!!!!
Is it possible to shoot a 400 speed film, at 800 iso, and simply add 2 stops of light while shooting, and not push the film in processing the film to get good results?
400 to 800 Exposure Index is 1 stop, not 2. and if you push from 400 to 800 you will get half the light (reducing exposure by 50%), not double like you seemed to have said, if I interpreted you correctly. Now, if you develop your film as a 400 ISO instead of 800, you're not really pushing your film. The contrast will be lower and I suspect your highlights won't be that developed, because you're reducing development time AND you likely underexposed your dark tones (if you metered for the medium tones or highlights). That may result in a lower contrast than desired, with blocked shadows.. but hey - shoot, be consistent and find out what's best for you. you may find your results very pleasing.
If you pull film, does that mean you make the grain less apparent from the normal exposure as well? So, let's say if a 400 film used as normal (at 400) has a certain character to the grain that is noticeable, would it become less noticeable being shot and developed at a lower ISO? - I don't assume it would disappear, but just less apparent than at normal use.
Does anyone know how to push/pull with the C41 process? I'm brand new to this, and looking at the instructions on the kit, it just says to develop for 3.5 minutes. This implies that this is the develop time no matter what C41 film you are processing. So, if I want to pull Porta 400 down to 100, do I actually decrease my time in the developer, or do I just develop normally and have an overexposed negative? I can find no information on this, and I've looked.....hard.
+Willoughby Krenzteinburg It is very unusual to push or pull colour film that's why there is not much information on it. I am not entirely sure it is possible, but if it was then less time is pulling and more time is pushing
and how this affects the exposure? if we push the 400-film to 800, do we have to adjust the f-number and shutter by one stop slower, to recoup the light?
OR! You have to adjust f-number OR shutter speed by one stop. And by push, you need to adjust the shutter faster. So for example if the meter says for your 400 film f/8 and 1/100s, then if you want to push to 800, you need to shoot at 1/200s OR f/11.
im new to this so bare with me.... I'm currently using 25 iso film if I push this two stops to iso 100 , I use a development time based on 100 iso fil... am I correct or just having a blonde moment.?
You are actually going to develop to your 25 ISO, and then adjust. (I'm sure you have already figured this out). The short version is pushing one stop in your developer is adding 20% time. Pushing 2 stops in developer is adding 50% to your time. There is a more detailed formula but the 20% and 50% addition to your time works pretty well.
does anyone know how to say it in Spanish? thing is I'm in a Latin-American country and I don't know how to tell the lab that my film has been pushed 2 stops or pulled 1 stop, whatever the case may be.
Thanks alot for this video. I have been confused about the pushing and pulling technique. I have a canon ftb ql and a roll of delta 3200. I did read that this film is actually not an iso of 3200, but it is intended to be pushed to 3200. My canon ftb's setting of iso just goes to 1600. So, should I shoot at 1600, and push to 3200? Or just develop at 1600. I'm assuming developing at 1600 will give me a neutral look that I can manipulate contrast in post. But again, this is my "theory" so I'm not exactly sure if it will work. Also, I haven't heard anyone talk about if pushing an pulling works for COLOR film.
+Jorge Zeraba the film is a 3200 asa so to correctly get an exposure you will have to meter at 3200 but it is possible to rate the film at 1600 and pull it in post, you can look up examples of this film pulled online
Hey, a little question here. What happens if you shot lets say a 200 iso film at 100 iso (pull) and after develop it as normal (just like a 200 film), the pictures would get overexposured right?? Is that a valid technique or the photos will be totally white and ruined???
no, they won't be over exposed, film has great latitude, also depends on if you're shooting bw or color negative film.. if it's transparency film, like Fuji RVP, then yeah, you need to be a bit more precise. I've accidentally had a roll of HP5 (400 speed film) that I rated at 100 (-2 stops) developed at box speed (normal) and the results came out great, however, all depends on shooting conditions.
I would love to see some examples. I feel like that would take a lot of time since you have to shoot the control pictures on a different roll from the push and pull roll!
Degotelo - You can probably easily find some on the internet, exactly to show the differences. But yea, it's probably a hassle to do so.
Up!
@@michaelangeloh.5383 Actually, 8 years later there is still no information on times (math) for fulling film per stop of overexposure. Pushing though there is a plethora of it
I think another advantage or real use case of pulling and pushing is adjusting light level: e.g. you have light and shadows to far away such as in an indoor scene with a window and you want to take a picture which shows the inside view of a room and the outside view from the window pulling will help you to make that possible. Pushing will help you get a more punchy picture if you only have flat light available. So it is not only for low light circumstances.
Just getting into shooting medium format and this was extremely thorough and helpful. Thank you!
It would be great to see the difference when pushing/pulling film, so hopefully you can get around to that video. Well explained, thanks.
You have a book by Bruce Mau! I love his work, he designed some thing for my father back in the day, they've been friends since he was in school.
Thanks for another great video! I've been getting into 35mm photography lately and your videos are a great resource.
Thank you for providing clarity on this subject. I myself am new to film photography and need to get the basics down.
Love this - more film goodness from Ted. Thank you for this video!
I shot Portra 400 at 3200 at a show the other weekend along with Fuji C200 at 1600. In fact if I know it's going to be low light I always push films like these. They will be grainy, but it's pretty and I like the richness of the colours and textures that can't be imitated with digital presets as much as they try (even if they could I wouldn't, one medium imitating the other is tacky to me. I love both for the record). I sometimes push when there is bright daylight even. However, I do not develop pushed or pulled rolls myself, I use a fantastic lab I mail to for that. If I shoot box speed and I can follow the recipe then I develop my own. Sometimes there is an image I know I don't want to risk ruining.
It'd be interesting for you to do a video on 'grain aliasing' regarding scanning certain films, especially pushed/pulled, I don't know if it's a 'thing' but I'm beginning to think it is. I aquired an old Nikon LS-2000 recently that might do this, the scanner mildly accentuates the grain perhaps,. I'm not sure yet. Obviously if you zoom in the grain becomes noticeably pixelated at a certain point and this must affect the tonal range somewhat (though I'm still impressed with the amount it picks up uncompressed from a refurbished 20 year old obsolete film scanner than a recent upper range flatbed say), but those old Coolscans really reproduce a faithful image compared side by side with the prints I've made in the dark room, but there is a noticeable difference in fineness. I think you could just about get away with a faithful looking 40 inch wide print depending on the printer before it became unsightly. I've not printed anything off from it so far, just used the measuring tape against the monitor.
Anyway, rambling on.
Shorthand here is you're underexposing the negative then pushing (over developing) the processing time, pulling is the reverse overexposing and under developing. With pushing the underexposure will lose you shadow detail hence the contrast while the highlights may be blown from the over development, the pay off is the gorgeous over saturation of the mid tones from it 'soaking' in the chemicals longer. That's my understanding at least. I had a friend who thought she was 'pushing' film for years just by rating it differently, when in fact she was just underexposing it and having it developed normally. I did a mental face palm when I realised. They came out ok though! One stop here or there, I'm completely loose with it myself sometimes. Some films have loads of latitude.
Great video
Slide films can also be pushed / pulled.
I regularly shoot Fuji Provia 100F at 200 and push +1, the results are fantastic and almost no different to normal.
I even sometimes shoot it at 320 and have it pushed +2 stops and the results are also very good although the contrast gets very high.
Thank you I have been wondering about pushing & pulling film.
pushing and pulling is the best reason to shoot sheet film. thanks great vid
Awesome video, Ted! Finally found a person to explain this to me and I understand! Thanks so much!
I really needed that information on pulling. Thanks!
So simple. Thanks
Thank you. That was very clear and helpful. I'm returning the Kodak Portra 160 (mistakenly sent) in exchange for the Portra 400. I'm excited to try it out. Does the same "side effects" happen with color film or just black & white?
+Brian-Marc Whittaker most people over expose colour negatives anyway so i recommend shooting one stop over exposed. But feel free to try pushing it it will definitely have an interesting effect
I am probably a bit late with this reply but the only developer you can use for a 5 stop over exposure is Perceptol. Do a clip test at about 6 minutes in stock solution at 20 deg.
Oh, and not being able to change the iso for the entire roll of 35 mm... you can note how many exposures on a partially shot roll, re wind it ... helpful if you stop rewinding when you feel it pull off the take up/ crank side so the already exposed leader is at least partially out. My f6 can be set for that or use an extractor if wound into the cassette. Mark the cassette for iso and # of shots. Reload another roll with a different iso and you have changed iso. You can re load what was the partial roll, put on the lens cap and cover the view finder/go to f/22 1/1000 and start firing off frames til you get one past where you left off as insurance. You can then shoot that at the iso you had used. So in fact, you can change iso, just not on the same roll.
Sometimes people use EI to indicate Exposure Index rather than Exposure Indicator. I'm not sure what the official expansion of I is but whether indicator or index, it is what the film was actually shot at.
I have pushed Tri-x allot. I love that film. Yes if pushing you are committed to the whole roll, but I heard there is a way around that by instead of rodinal, using Diafine. Any thoughts on that Ted or others... Greg
Your Videos are the best . Thanks Ted!
So i recently shot a roll of ilford 100 at 400 accidently, That means i push process when developing 2 stops correct?
So are you pushing or pulling the negative or the print?
can I ask, for film cameras, how do you metering films with different ISO?
when metering, does the camera consider all films as certain default ISO? 100/ 400?
e.g. canon AE-1 metering for ILFORD delta 100 and ILFORD delta 3200? is there any formulas we should follow?
thanks
Some photo examples and comparisons would make this video everything I need to understand!
Great video tho
so what about if I push the film for a shot that I need more light (in a shadowed alley let's say) and then I need to shoot a sunny scene and set the ISO to film standard (same roll of film)..Is that doable or it's going to ''ruin'' the photos?I'm confused or just stupid
What about the change in development time? Anyone know any guidelines?
With stand development you can actually push and pull from frame to frame :-)
I was going to comment the same thing
Hi when you modifie the ISO on digital it ils the same thing that you are doing in film, you amplifie or reduce the signal that you have in the raw file , same as pushing/ Pulling when you develop film
So if I'd shoot the same scene with a 400 Iso Film @200, then again with a 100 ISO film at 200, there'd be differences in contrast. Is the grain comparable then though, or is there still a huge difference between the pulled 400 and the pushed 200 film? thanks !
So if I want to shoot at night and shoot iso 400 film @1600, then should i develop it at 400 or 1600?
Lately, I'm experimenting a lot with the pushing, I've shot quite few tri-x at 3200 both on day and night in London, I'm currently shooting one at 6400 and next at 12800, I know it's a lot, but as I said I'm experimenting. Last week I shot a FP4 native 125, expired 10 years ago and pushed to 800, it came out beautiful, next, I would try Ilford Delta 3200 pushed at 6400. All developed with HC 110 (B).
ASA= American Standards Association
ISO= International Standards Organization
You make a distinction between ASA and ISO. The ASA film speed is exactly the same as the same number ISO film speed. ISO just replaced ASA. Tri-X has an ASA film speed of 400 and it has anISO film speed of 400. You do not set the meter at an ISO number and then take pictures at an ASA number. The only time you have to ever think about ASA is if your cameras are marked ASA at the point where you set the film speed, or if you are reading old photography books/magazines
Tri-X shot at a meter setting of ISO 1600 and developed in Diafine used to provide an acceptable speed increase with fine grain without suffering from increased contrast. Many of my college bw photography assignments were developed in Diafine.
Thank you for this clear explanation!
ok.. I have a question since I am a bit confused here with the explanation. If I wanted to push 400 asa film to 800 doesnt that mean that I need more light since the 400 speed film is less sensitive than 800 asa film? At 800 a film is more sensitive to light meaning it needs less exposure time. Again, thank you for taking the time in addressing my question and thank you for the video
Gabe Quezada you need less light because youre pretending that youre shooting an 800 asa speed film instead of a 400 asa speed film.
you compensate for the ‚underexposure‘ by developing longer.
Thank you! I finally understand! You answered all the questions I’ve always had, ty again!
If I have a lomo film iso 50-200 and I shoot at iso50. Do I need to tell him to develop in 50iso or say nothing.
Your videos are really great Ted. Very helpful and informative! I especially love the ones you made on Saul Leiter, as I'm a big fan. Can you recommend any photographers that are a little similar to Leiter?
I've heard a couple times about pushing C-41 film. does this work too?
I really like to push Tri-X 400, to 1600. The the prints are a lot more interesting, with a slight grainy feel.
KG
Quick correction, my Leica mp 240 which is a digital camera has pull 100 & push 4000, 5000 & 6400 :)
well explained - i was trying to eplain it to a friend in a facebook comment - i gave up and used this ;)
Hi Ted. What do you think of Ultrafine xtreme film? it's consumer film.
Thank you! You've answered all of my questions.
you can change push/pull the film frame by frame if you develop in stand dev. i do it all the time...
could pushing and a red filter work together?
Thanks ted 🙏🏽
Because of exposure latitude, Ilford XP2 for example is very good for this.
Thank you for explaining this!
This was so informative....thank you!
Makes a lot of sense! Thanks for your explanation!
Love your channel, thanks for this.
Excellent explanation - Thank you!
Is it essential to process the film at the pushed iso value as opposed to the original?
Yes, otherwise your film will be underexposed and the images will be very grainy and lacking in shadow detail.
You could shoot at different ISO but you will need to know what is the right frame to cut. Take your camera and find how far the first frame is cranked. Then get some sticks that you can measure the film in the dark room with. What you want to do is take one or two photos of nothing important or just leave the lens cap on. Cut the film and you will now have to develop those strips by them self.
It might take a little practice to learn how to do it.
my old medium format tlr has a 400iso maximum seting,how do i push it to 800 iso,
Hi Ted,
I need your help and experience :)
do you have any ideas on develop times (20 Celsius tank process, Fomadon R09 developer -similar to Rodinal- 1:25 dilution), when i got 2 35mm rolls of Ilford Pan 400, exposed @ Iso 100, so I need to pull 2 stops.
this is the first time i've ever trying something like that, so i thought you have some experience with these negatives and develop times!
Thank you :)
It was very helpful and informative. Thanks!
Very interesting video! I'm shooting a wedding in a few days and the color film body will have Kodak 400 film in it which I was planning to pull to 300 because it is expired stock from the 90's. The film was in a cupboard for years. Am I on the right track?
Always overexpose expired film stock by 1 stop. Even with unexpired film, I tend to overexpose by 1 stop since for color film it's better to be over than under. Highlights in film do not wash out like that of digital sensors.
if you were to pull film would there be less contrast? since pushing increases contrast
Thank you so much for this video. Now the EXIF data for medium format cameras makes so much more sense to me, when viewing shots on Flickr. It would really be cool if you did a video on what some of the EXIF, Tags and Info that Photographers include on Flickr means... I'm having to learn the hard way.
Very nice video bit no one ever answers the push pull question completely . If I want to push one stop what might the average time addition in the processing be . 1 minute, 4 minutes Where do I start to get that 1 stop push effect. Also if I don't want to push it but just increase the contrast I guess if you want to just increase contrast you are at the same time pushing it even if the exposure was proper. ????
+Ronald Ergen Hi Ron. In answer to your part of your question..... If you push a film one stop, then you have to increase your box speed development time by 1 + 20% Shown as 'n+1' Which means.... if it was this simple.... that normal development was 5 min dev by adding 20% to the dev time would increase the dev time by 1 min, eg 5x1.2= 6 min dev time. However, pushing by 2 tops will be 'N+2' Which will be 5min x1.2=6 6x1.2=7.2 min. If you pull one stop then you will divide by 20%, reducing your development time to 4.167min. Clear as mud I know but stick with it and you will suss it out :-) If you want to increase your contrast at box speed then shoot one stop under exposed and increase your box speed development time by 20% and if you want to decrease your contrast then do the opposite.I hope this helps a little :-) RegardsIain
how do u develop a film pushed 2 stops? Do u use the table for ISO1600 film development?
+Garubolas a 400 asa film developed as if it was a 1600 asa film is pushed two stops. check out the tables provided by your developing solution
Awesome video, thank you so much!!!
okay so i have a question about pulling
if i put kodak 400 into my camera and set my camera iso for 100 do i have to tell the lab to pull for 2 stops or say nothing and have them develop at the normal time for Kodak 400
im trying to get a beautiful over exposed background while exposing under the chin of people for portraits
if you correctly metered on your subjects, assuming they're backlit, I'd have the lab pull one stop. -1, so your 400 box speed film was rated at 100 (-2) but I'd have it developed as if you rated it at 200. Your shadow detail should remain, and the highlights shouldn't be clipped. TriX has great latitude, I'd honestly just pull 1 stop.
If it's color film you don't need to tell the lab anything. If it's black and white I would specify. For example the times for processing Tri-x @ 100 and @ 400 are about a minute or two apart and I've seen it mentioned online that it makes little difference but I have tested this myself and can tell you the difference is quite significant and could potentially ruin a great shot.
Pushing and pulling is a lot better if you've determined the exact film speed and development time for a partiicular film with your standard film, equipment, agitation technique and printing.
I've had problems with grain even when shooting my HP5 at 400 ISO.
I know my temperature has been consistent at 20 degrees Celsius.
Can you help me with a video on temperature or agitation? I think maybe grain has something to do with those with developing film yourself? Thank you very much for the videos!
I am about to shoot my first roll of film, I now understand the benefits of pushing and pulling, I noticed that my local lab charges extra to push the film while processing, was just wondering, do people push and pull on the same roll of film? im wondering if the lab would be able to know which exposures to push, which to pull, and which to just process as would be normal?
3:00
Hey Ted I’m from the future, just wanted to tell you that you will age very well
If you take scrupulous notes when taking photos, I guess one could cut a roll to push at different levels/speeds, but what a pain that would be?!
Hi Ted, im new to this. If i shoot at 1600 on my 400 film, i bring it to the lab and push the film to 1600 means entire roll is developed in 1600. What if some of the photos in the negative i can see they are overexposed can i still pull them back to 800 in postprocess? - i think it's possible but the grains and strong contrast will still be there. am i right? Thanks
So if we push in camera we should also tell he lab to push the same amount ?
Can you push and pull according to the lighting in your photo on a single roll to ''even it up''...?
So i got confused, you can't change the speed for each picture when pushing or pulling you hAave to keep it the same for the whole roll?
Rose Parak you develop the entire role at the same time so it is impossible to develop each shot separately. if you change the settings for each shot, then develop your film, you're gonna get funky results because pushing/pulling need different development needs.
Camille Christenson, I pushed one picture 1 stop by accident, then I continue shooting my roll with the correct iso according to the roll, does changing the iso for only that picture is going to affect my other pictures as well or just the one that I took at that film speed? I would really appreciate if you can help me!
I just shot ISO 3200 film at 100 by mistake, is there any way i could process it?
Glad to help!
Some people push without push processing in the lab. Why?
Thanks for the video but I feel like I'm missing something. If I load a 400 film and set the iso to 800, how does that result in the film receiving more light? In my mind, that would tell my metering system that the film is more sensitive, therefore needing faster exposures or smaller apertures to compensate. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding but I had assumed the iso dial was only to inform the metering and didn't inherently change what happened to the film.
Your comment is old but I'll answer anyways. If you load 400 speed film but tell your meter you have 800. You're telling your camera the film is more sensitive than it truly is. When you take your shot at the appropriate exposure, you actually underexposing the shot because the meter is reading 1 stop more light than there really is (400 -> 800 is one stop). Hence the reason to tell the lab or yourself to overdevelop by 1 stop during development. Like wise, if you rate lower from 400 to 200, you're telling the meter there is less light than there truly is and your shots will be overexposed so the film needs less development time. The ISO dial doesn't inherently change the film in any way but it does dictate your exposure settings which will affect the shot.
Am a little confused. If you push film from ISO 400 to 800, you set the film speed on the camera to 800. Since the camera ISO determines how to meter the exposure, you then use the camera reading to take the shot. If you are using an external meter and metered at 800, then does it matter what ISO you set the camera at?
If you're using an external meter it doesn't matter the reading from the in-camera meter. You just need to be in manual mode and set the parameters the external meter gives you related to aperture and shutter speed.
Some cameras may have an automatic modes in which they set the aperture and shutter speed (based on the ISO you set the in-camera meter or which is determined by the DX code in the cannister; which is detected automatically by the camera) and other cameras have an internal meter but you gotta set the parameters on your own.
You're gonna need to research about your camera to know how it works.
A tip, some in-camera meters may give you a wrong reading if they're old and will need calibration service.
Cheers.
If you forget to set the ASA on the camera higher (when wanting to push) can you still have them push a stop or two at the lab?
Yes. Pushing refers to the development procedure. You can technically push process underexposed or overexposed film for different tonal ranges and creative effects. What is generally referred to as pushing the film, however, is when you underexpose a film and overdevelop it to compensate.
If I only want to increase the contrast of my negative . How can I do that without changing the effective ISO on a properly shot exposure????
+Ronald Ergen contrast can be increased in the darkroom. check out ted's video on the darkroom for more info
Another youtuber did a test of hp5 shot from 1 stop under exposed to 7 stops over exposed. At 5 stops over exposed there was hardly any difference with properly exposed one. Try 4 stops over with digital, that is how I get a pure white background in studio and a shot 5 stops over with digital would be pure white. So much for film being hard to use. So for street, if I expose for shadows, I am ok. Also, this film at 400 is pretty low contrast and for my taste, 1600 pushed 2 stops is just right and still minor room to drop shadows. Oh, and its not expensive. My go to 35 mm b&w. MF 3200 also at 1600 so it simplifies exposure although I try to nail the 3200 on stop over exposed as it isnt as forgiving as hp5.
Hi ,
I have a question, you say you are committed to the entire roll being processed the same.
My question involves the Apollo photos , according to NASA the first few pictures on each magazine were exposed in a controlled manner. These first exposures were then cut from the roll and developed first to tweak the development/processing of the priceless lunar photos that followed.
Is this pushing/pulling ?
Doesn't this contradict the committed to the entire roll statement?
Finally is this why in some Apollo photos you can see a faint square outline around the earth?
The technique you are referring to is called a clip test. A small portion of film is cut off and processed first to assess if the development needed to be adjusted for the rest of the film, which could then be pushed/pulled appropriately. I'm not surprised they approached it that way
What if I were to not commit on one ASA? What happens then?
Ted I wanted to ask if you took just one picture on 800 Iso on a 35mm film that's 400 iOS but the rest of the pictures are at 400 will it mess up your pictures
This was quite some time ago, but if you just get the film developed at the normal 400, the 800 one might be underexposed (as the shutter time was shorter, as the camera thought the film was 800 and more sensitive). - So unless you're able to cut out that one image in a darkroom and develop it differently from the rest, it might just be too dark or dim.
Ted,
Please help; I have a Hi-Matic F and shoot only Tri-X with it, BUT I'm having the modern battery/light meter issue (over exposure), so I'm trying to find the Push-Pull balance to get the affect I'm looking for. I have a Y2 filter on it as well.
Thanks -Dan
What are you trying to do?
The Art of Photography Sorry, I was really not very clear.
I want to account for the over exposure from the light meter, because of the modern batteries. A640's
+Danny Doyle You may not get this as its an old comment but if you were to change the ISO too a higher one that might work.
+Danny Doyle I always get the BEST Colors by Pulling my Color Negative Print Films +2 to +3 Stops ""Over Exposures"" and I get ""Ultra Rich Colors natural, Ultra High Contrasts and ""NO"" Grain by saturating more ""Light"" into my Color Single Lens Reflex Cameras. Example on 400 ISO ASA Color Negative (Process C-41.) Color Films I shoot 400 ISO ASA Color Films at either 100 ISO ASA Setting on my SLR Cameras or ISO ASA 50 on my Film Speed Dials on my Color Negative Print Films or "Use the Compensation Dial to +2 Stops Over Exposure for BEST Color , Ultra HIgh Contrasts and Vivid Rich natural Colors and ""NO"" Grain both because I always ""FREEZE my Color Films Negatives"" then ""Defrost them for 1 Day on a room table before installing them into my 35 mm. SLR Cameras!!!!!!
Is it possible to shoot a 400 speed film, at 800 iso, and simply add 2 stops of light while shooting, and not push the film in processing the film to get good results?
400 to 800 Exposure Index is 1 stop, not 2. and if you push from 400 to 800 you will get half the light (reducing exposure by 50%), not double like you seemed to have said, if I interpreted you correctly.
Now, if you develop your film as a 400 ISO instead of 800, you're not really pushing your film. The contrast will be lower and I suspect your highlights won't be that developed, because you're reducing development time AND you likely underexposed your dark tones (if you metered for the medium tones or highlights). That may result in a lower contrast than desired, with blocked shadows.. but hey - shoot, be consistent and find out what's best for you. you may find your results very pleasing.
If you pull film, does that mean you make the grain less apparent from the normal exposure as well? So, let's say if a 400 film used as normal (at 400) has a certain character to the grain that is noticeable, would it become less noticeable being shot and developed at a lower ISO? - I don't assume it would disappear, but just less apparent than at normal use.
Yes. Less development time = smaller grain and less contrast
Does anyone know how to push/pull with the C41 process? I'm brand new to this, and looking at the instructions on the kit, it just says to develop for 3.5 minutes. This implies that this is the develop time no matter what C41 film you are processing. So, if I want to pull Porta 400 down to 100, do I actually decrease my time in the developer, or do I just develop normally and have an overexposed negative? I can find no information on this, and I've looked.....hard.
+Willoughby Krenzteinburg It is very unusual to push or pull colour film that's why there is not much information on it. I am not entirely sure it is possible, but if it was then less time is pulling and more time is pushing
and how this affects the exposure? if we push the 400-film to 800, do we have to adjust the f-number and shutter by one stop slower, to recoup the light?
TataBrada80 same question here
OR! You have to adjust f-number OR shutter speed by one stop. And by push, you need to adjust the shutter faster. So for example if the meter says for your 400 film f/8 and 1/100s, then if you want to push to 800, you need to shoot at 1/200s OR f/11.
will pulling film give better detail?
Can I push and pull color negative films as well?
yes you can
yes
Thank you much, now i finally understand!
im new to this so bare with me.... I'm currently using 25 iso film if I push this two stops to iso 100 , I use a development time based on 100 iso fil... am I correct or just having a blonde moment.?
You are actually going to develop to your 25 ISO, and then adjust. (I'm sure you have already figured this out). The short version is pushing one stop in your developer is adding 20% time. Pushing 2 stops in developer is adding 50% to your time. There is a more detailed formula but the 20% and 50% addition to your time works pretty well.
does anyone know how to say it in Spanish? thing is I'm in a Latin-American country and I don't know how to tell the lab that my film has been pushed 2 stops or pulled 1 stop, whatever the case may be.
Thanks alot for this video. I have been confused about the pushing and pulling technique.
I have a canon ftb ql and a roll of delta 3200.
I did read that this film is actually not an iso of 3200, but it is intended to be pushed to 3200.
My canon ftb's setting of iso just goes to 1600. So, should I shoot at 1600, and push to 3200? Or just develop at 1600. I'm assuming developing at 1600 will give me a neutral look that I can manipulate contrast in post.
But again, this is my "theory" so I'm not exactly sure if it will work.
Also, I haven't heard anyone talk about if pushing an pulling works for COLOR film.
+Jorge Zeraba the film is a 3200 asa so to correctly get an exposure you will have to meter at 3200 but it is possible to rate the film at 1600 and pull it in post, you can look up examples of this film pulled online
+Joe Addison Thanks!
thank you so much!!!!
Ted,
Can you push and pull color film?
Hey, a little question here. What happens if you shot lets say a 200 iso film at 100 iso (pull) and after develop it as normal (just like a 200 film), the pictures would get overexposured right?? Is that a valid technique or the photos will be totally white and ruined???
no, they won't be over exposed, film has great latitude, also depends on if you're shooting bw or color negative film.. if it's transparency film, like Fuji RVP, then yeah, you need to be a bit more precise. I've accidentally had a roll of HP5 (400 speed film) that I rated at 100 (-2 stops) developed at box speed (normal) and the results came out great, however, all depends on shooting conditions.
thanks!