Thanks for the review guys! I am an (even older) geezer and have owned a Caballero 500 Flat Track, for a couple of years. I really love this bike, for it’s looks, light weight and peppy performance, but I admit that it is not very happy having to do 20mph. everybloodywhere these days… However, your Caballero is running rough because it has been “illegally” modified. The short header is designed to work only as a complete package, with the carbon end cans and a proper re-map.
I think you summed up the new Himalayan without realising, when you mentioned it being forgettable in a few days time, isn't this the case for the majority of new euro5 motorcycles. I must admit I prefer the classics that actually make you feel like you've still alive. Obviously it's a good motorcycle if you need to ride everyday, but for me I just ride every now and then and purely for enjoyment, so I'd actually prefer Richard's (box of frogs) Caballero, no chance of falling asleep riding that one. The new Himalayan is probably a good contender for the Honda NX500 at a cheaper price, but the problem is it's only by a few hundred pounds, so I guess it's a choice between a reliable Honda or new engine RE for the round the world trip (otherwise know as popping down the shops for a bottle of milk). Glad to see you back making the videos.
You were missed, great to see you back. I am the same era (read age) and I can comfortably relate to your interests, discussions and opinions far more than most other motorcycle channels. Pleasure to watch!
A number of commentators have said the new Himalayan has more vibration than the old model. Currently the air-cooled model is £2k less than the new bike. The motor is reputed believed to be going into a Hunter, so it will be interesting to see what it's like in a road bike.
@@darklord9102 we usually test classic bikes so our idea regarding vibrations is totally different to someone who has ridden nothing but moderns Felt really punchy and nice to me if it did vibrate I didn’t notice it Cheers Mike
An excellent video thanks Mike. A very interesting and positive review. The new Himalayan certainly looks like value for money. It's great to see the gang back.
Thanks much for the comparison video guy's. That was a lot of fun. I guess without being able to road test them, I would probably lean towards the R.E.. Who knows tho if my mind would stay this way after road testing the two. Have a great day to all of you! Cheers!! Illinois, USA
Very well done review, thanks. You deserve a thumb up for it. Being an older biker myself I love to watch the Lemon Drizzle Gang. Bye for now from Belgium.
I have the caballero rally version with the slightly taller suspension which is way better than the standard scrambler on our wonderful roads. I traded a Harley as I fancied a change, a year on I have no regrets at all. It really does everything I need and has proven to be a great all rounder. I have added a rear rack, engine guards, race exhaust with re-map and a heavier flywheel. The last two certainly help with the fueling and a healthy boost performance wise, not that it really needed it. 😂. It's a bike that has gotten under my skin and gets compliments wherever I go. The Himmy is a beautiful machine and a leap up from the 411 but for now I prefer the more uncivilised and raucousness of the Fantic. Great review. Oh and just to add, the cabby engine is actually a 450 too , not sure why it's badged as a 500!
@@nockianlifter661 to be fair, I had to do an hour stint on the motorway recently and it stayed with the traffic and a bigger bike with no problems at all, well except a long uphill section but it still stayed on or around the national speed limit 😉. I love it most on sweeping roads and lanes where it just ploughs on like a juggernaut with a real connected machine feel.
@@redstormcrow I’ve seen 100mph on it on a slight uphill. The biggest issue is the bolt upright riding position makes it uncomfortable over 70mph. I’ve a Tuono 660 for that kind of thing. For more green roads I have an XT250 which is almost as much fun on back lanes as the Fantic, but slower.
Still with ya Mike! Enjoyed that comparison. The RE seems to be a great improvement on the last one, but yes, the Fantic definitely has it on the looks. I don’t know, I just think it could have been given ‘cooler’ styling. Very impressive performance and economy figures though. Good job again, looking forward to the next one 👍😉
The real comparison to the 450 will be a modded 411 with TEC cam (and maybe fuel mapping and larger front sprocket). Also interested to see someone ride-compare the 450 with an early 2000s BMW F650 GS Funduro - maybe that's where the Himalayan is headed with the next larger engine (three decades after the BMW).
I had an F650. Hated the engine. Impossible to ride at constant speed in trafic and suffered a high frequency buzz at certain revs that made your Teath hurt. Appart from that, brilliant.
@davidbesant My F650 was very smooth. Regular city commuting and occasional 700km day trips. So my motor was good and the bike was comfortable. What I didn't like was the expensive servicing and premium fuel. Also top heavy and frightening in the wind. Himmy 411 is very stable but the engine sounds like loose parts in a plastic lunch box. The Himmy 450 is top heavy too, and quicker on the throttle, so I thought there might be some comparison there to the F650.
another great video chaps ,fantic looks and sounds better (what's the wee pipe above the front exhaust pipe ?) .The Himalayan looks great value for money but I would drop and extra £100 to change the colour ,having seen the light brown in the flesh , barf ! Richard you were seriously considering a mark one himi a few weeks ago ,has this one changed your mind ? the new Himalayan looks like a perfect allrounder on a reasonable budget . are the service intervals more realistic than the mark one ? The accessories look incredible value too .
Great to see this comparison ! Aldo similar in displacement but all different for the rest. Personally I love the sound ( and the pop pop) of the Fantic. I would choose the Fantic for the fun around town, and would pick the Himalayan for going from point A to point B. I wonder how would the Triumph 400 X Scrambler compare to the Caballero...?
Good to ser you back! Great video reviewing two interesting bikes. I like your enthusiasm in the round the table summing up. Perhaps you are only a little too eager to fill in your personal impressions, all at the same time. It can be a little challenging to follow, at least for me not having english as native language, when you all talk at the same time! 😂👍
@@LemonDrizzleGang But, at the same time, do not think too much of it, you must be the ones you are and feel natural about what you are doing! And you ARE doing great! 🤗
@@LemonDrizzleGang tall folks only need apply, I'm 6'1" and I can flat foot it... for a 400cc its a big bike, but its a hoot and the fuelling is gorgeous... got rid of a 1200 bobber, ( I just didn't gel with it) the Scrambler is a great bike, you'll love it, bonkers fun...👍
The Himalayan 450 is far batter than the Scrambler 400X. The latter has very poor fuelling and is very buzzy. It’s also only a pseudo off-roader with its cast wheels. If you want a thorough review just watch That Biker Simon who rode both bikes plus KTM ADV390 around southern India for 3000 kms. One of the other riders was Alex Pirie who owns Nomadic Knights and has been leading tours in the Himalayas for over 20 years. All three riders rode each bike for about 1000 kms on the trip and all three said the Himalayan was by far the best.
@@magaudion Sorry, the fuelling on mine is spot on, early models had a habit of stalling and being weak off idle, the updated software sorted that... and yes it is more road focussed, and to be perfectly frank its supposed to be, with only a passing nod to any off road aspirations, as a back lane, B' road scratcher is where it lives, and for that its superb, in essence the RE is better off road and the Triumph probably edges it on... swings and roundabouts...
Lots of other reviews of the new Himmy have commented on vibration as a potential issue. You guys didn't even mention it so I'm assuming for you it wasn't an issue????
The Fantic for me. But, as you say, it's nothing like the RE. I wouldn't buy any RE. The Fantic is drop-dead good-looking. Shame it runs on inner tubes. Regarding the fuelling, a booster plug would sort that out, I'd imagine. As you say, it has an aftermarket exhaust. Standard, the fuelling is better than this example. I'd have one if I lived in Europe. Good video.
@@LemonDrizzleGang There’s a standard map that comes with the pipe, but it’s also supposed to have the carbon end cans on I think ? - race only. Liberates another 5bhp, but extremely loud. It also might need fuel pump and exhaust gasket checking for issues/leaks as it looks like a first generation model and they had a few minor issues. Mines a Deluxe which had improved mapping, it runs smoothly in 4th at 30mph through town and on rough green lanes, is surprisingly tractable. I was surprised you had issues with the suspension - though they are set for 80Kg rider and I’m 65Kg so it floats over bumps really easily.
Yes, the arrow carbon cans come with a remap. They are a little louder but not excessive.....until you remove the baffles. Then all hell let's loose, I put them straight back in to avoid upsetting the neighbours.
@@LemonDrizzleGangFrantic Fantic uses a short stroke Yamaha engine with lightweight 2-stroke style crank, I had a WR450 bike and even with a balancer shafts it was unbearable for sustained high speed riding, far worse than my BSA B50 with CCM mods, a lot less fun too!
'Cos it's not true. You get some vibes at full throttle when accelerating from 60 up to 70mph. It is a single. If you want a smooth engine buy a twin. If you're that sensitive though, stay away from 4-cyl bikes.
@davidbesant I’m assuming your bizarre comment was aimed at myself? Are you suggesting that these comment streams are not open to opinion? Forget 4 stroke bikes you irrationally say? Um, that’s a no as I’m happy with the five in my collection, one of which is a rare Yamaha SRX 600 single electric start. Deltabox frame, Brembo brake master cylinders and a joy to ride…..with very little vibration through the Rev range. I happened to ask the LDG about this issue as a friend of mine has just got his Himalayan 450 and has said it’s a bit vibey (still running in, mind) as have lots of other commentators. My advice to you is calm down, don’t be so precious about any particular make/model and listen to the opinions of others without getting personal. Safe riding, old boy.
I was telling it how it is. This was not the radom opinion of someone who's never ridden one. One of the biggest criticism of some bikes is that they are soleless and boring. It bothers me that so much you read in comments of such videos is entirely negative. The presenters here did a fantastic job. They left pretty much nothing out and still stressed the fun element, which is what bikes are all about.
Sod boring practically (ok - it does have its place), I want my bikes to be full of bikeness and the Caballero has that in spades. I’d buy this one faults and all. In fact - I have! 😊
That was Richards point he has a collection of bikeness bikes but as a modern he wants the practicality i agree the Caballero is a riot but as a modern everyday bike the Himi fits his needs (also its not boring just different) I hope it didnt come across as a criticism of the Fantic we all loved it 👍👍
@@LemonDrizzleGang Yes - I was being tongue in cheek - I fully understand where Rich is coming from, and agree with his thinking in his situation. I just think that the Cab is that rare thing in modern bikes (at this price point and in this sector) - one that is about the things we got into biking for all those years ago ( those of us who are older bikers - which unfortunately seems to be the majority these days..), and celebrated as such. The Himmy is very impressive I’m sure, and great value for money, but not lovely and todger tingling like the Cab - to me 🙂
Pops bangs and crackles work for me! 😆
I really like your format for videos, with the riding footage and the round table reviews. Immensely enjoyable fellas!
Cheers from Nor-Cal.
Thank you 👍
Recently bought an Interceptor 650 from a&d. really good people
Thanks for the review guys! I am an (even older) geezer and have owned a Caballero 500 Flat Track, for a couple of years.
I really love this bike, for it’s looks, light weight and peppy performance, but I admit that it is not very happy having to do 20mph. everybloodywhere these days…
However, your Caballero is running rough because it has been “illegally” modified. The short header is designed to work only as a complete package, with the carbon end cans and a proper re-map.
That would explain things
Correct.
I think you summed up the new Himalayan without realising, when you mentioned it being forgettable in a few days time, isn't this the case for the majority of new euro5 motorcycles. I must admit I prefer the classics that actually make you feel like you've still alive. Obviously it's a good motorcycle if you need to ride everyday, but for me I just ride every now and then and purely for enjoyment, so I'd actually prefer Richard's (box of frogs) Caballero, no chance of falling asleep riding that one. The new Himalayan is probably a good contender for the Honda NX500 at a cheaper price, but the problem is it's only by a few hundred pounds, so I guess it's a choice between a reliable Honda or new engine RE for the round the world trip (otherwise know as popping down the shops for a bottle of milk). Glad to see you back making the videos.
R.E. is just as reliable as Honda at this point
Thoroughly enjoyable, very good to have you guys back. Cheers
Great review, thoroughly enjoyed it to the end. Cheers 😊
I fit the new cam in my ol Himmy in about one hour.
Thoroughly enjoyable and confidence inspiring review of the new Himmy, and an informative comparison, too, with the Caballero.
Very enjoyable and informative!
You were missed, great to see you back. I am the same era (read age) and I can comfortably relate to your interests, discussions and opinions far more than most other motorcycle channels. Pleasure to watch!
Thank you
A number of commentators have said the new Himalayan has more vibration than the old model. Currently the air-cooled model is £2k less than the new bike. The motor is reputed believed to be going into a Hunter, so it will be interesting to see what it's like in a road bike.
Not Hunter, Guerrilla.
The 450 felt as smooth as silk after the Caballero 😳😀
It doesn't....ppl over react.
@@darklord9102 we usually test classic bikes so our idea regarding vibrations is totally different to someone who has ridden nothing but moderns
Felt really punchy and nice to me if it did vibrate I didn’t notice it
Cheers Mike
An excellent video thanks Mike. A very interesting and positive review. The new Himalayan certainly looks like value for money.
It's great to see the gang back.
Thank you
Thanks much for the comparison video guy's. That was a lot of fun. I guess without being able to road test them, I would probably lean towards the R.E.. Who knows tho if my mind would stay this way after road testing the two. Have a great day to all of you! Cheers!! Illinois, USA
Thank you Larry 👍
Very well done review, thanks. You deserve a thumb up for it. Being an older biker myself I love to watch the Lemon Drizzle Gang. Bye for now from Belgium.
Thank you appreciated 👍
I have the caballero rally version with the slightly taller suspension which is way better than the standard scrambler on our wonderful roads. I traded a Harley as I fancied a change, a year on I have no regrets at all. It really does everything I need and has proven to be a great all rounder. I have added a rear rack, engine guards, race exhaust with re-map and a heavier flywheel. The last two certainly help with the fueling and a healthy boost performance wise, not that it really needed it. 😂. It's a bike that has gotten under my skin and gets compliments wherever I go.
The Himmy is a beautiful machine and a leap up from the 411 but for now I prefer the more uncivilised and raucousness of the Fantic. Great review. Oh and just to add, the cabby engine is actually a 450 too , not sure why it's badged as a 500!
The frantic Fantic is how I describe mine. It’s got under my skin too, everything a motorcycle should be without a lot of top end performance.
@@nockianlifter661 to be fair, I had to do an hour stint on the motorway recently and it stayed with the traffic and a bigger bike with no problems at all, well except a long uphill section but it still stayed on or around the national speed limit 😉. I love it most on sweeping roads and lanes where it just ploughs on like a juggernaut with a real connected machine feel.
@@redstormcrow I’ve seen 100mph on it on a slight uphill. The biggest issue is the bolt upright riding position makes it uncomfortable over 70mph. I’ve a Tuono 660 for that kind of thing. For more green roads I have an XT250 which is almost as much fun on back lanes as the Fantic, but slower.
@@nockianlifter661 I was gassing out at 90mph but I am 127kgs! I am a big fella and lift weights so top end will always be limited. 😳
@@redstormcrow makes sense at twice my weight, bikes doing ok at 90mph.
Can you guys review the RE Classic 350?
Sure I will chat to the dealer
Last time I rod a Fantic it was in the early 80's and 50cc. Fast and unreliable sums them up.
Not unreliable these days.
Fantic chopper 👍
Still with ya Mike! Enjoyed that comparison. The RE seems to be a great improvement on the last one, but yes, the Fantic definitely has it on the looks. I don’t know, I just think it could have been given ‘cooler’ styling. Very impressive performance and economy figures though. Good job again, looking forward to the next one 👍😉
Thanks Rob hope you are keeping well
The real comparison to the 450 will be a modded 411 with TEC cam (and maybe fuel mapping and larger front sprocket). Also interested to see someone ride-compare the 450 with an early 2000s BMW F650 GS Funduro - maybe that's where the Himalayan is headed with the next larger engine (three decades after the BMW).
I had an F650. Hated the engine. Impossible to ride at constant speed in trafic and suffered a high frequency buzz at certain revs that made your Teath hurt. Appart from that, brilliant.
@davidbesant My F650 was very smooth. Regular city commuting and occasional 700km day trips. So my motor was good and the bike was comfortable. What I didn't like was the expensive servicing and premium fuel. Also top heavy and frightening in the wind. Himmy 411 is very stable but the engine sounds like loose parts in a plastic lunch box. The Himmy 450 is top heavy too, and quicker on the throttle, so I thought there might be some comparison there to the F650.
another great video chaps ,fantic looks and sounds better (what's the wee pipe above the front exhaust pipe ?) .The Himalayan looks great value for money but I would drop and extra £100 to change the colour ,having seen the light brown in the flesh , barf ! Richard you were seriously considering a mark one himi a few weeks ago ,has this one changed your mind ? the new Himalayan looks like a perfect allrounder on a reasonable budget . are the service intervals more realistic than the mark one ? The accessories look incredible value too .
Thanks Fraz
Great to see this comparison ! Aldo similar in displacement but all different for the rest. Personally I love the sound ( and the pop pop) of the Fantic. I would choose the Fantic for the fun around town, and would pick the Himalayan for going from point A to point B. I wonder how would the Triumph 400 X Scrambler compare to the Caballero...?
Good to ser you back! Great video reviewing two interesting bikes. I like your enthusiasm in the round the table summing up. Perhaps you are only a little too eager to fill in your personal impressions, all at the same time. It can be a little challenging to follow, at least for me not having english as native language, when you all talk at the same time! 😂👍
Thanks for the feedback will take it on board
@@LemonDrizzleGang But, at the same time, do not think too much of it, you must be the ones you are and feel natural about what you are doing! And you ARE doing great! 🤗
Loveit guys ❤
Thanks for watching
Love it... when are you doing a run on the Triumph 400X Scrambler, Just got one and its a flippin gem...👍
Really fancy a go on one will approach out Triumph dealer
They look great bikes
@@LemonDrizzleGang tall folks only need apply, I'm 6'1" and I can flat foot it... for a 400cc its a big bike, but its a hoot and the fuelling is gorgeous... got rid of a 1200 bobber, ( I just didn't gel with it) the Scrambler is a great bike, you'll love it, bonkers fun...👍
The Himalayan 450 is far batter than the Scrambler 400X. The latter has very poor fuelling and is very buzzy. It’s also only a pseudo off-roader with its cast wheels.
If you want a thorough review just watch That Biker Simon who rode both bikes plus KTM ADV390 around southern India for 3000 kms.
One of the other riders was Alex Pirie who owns Nomadic Knights and has been leading tours in the Himalayas for over 20 years.
All three riders rode each bike for about 1000 kms on the trip and all three said the Himalayan was by far the best.
@@magaudion Sorry, the fuelling on mine is spot on, early models had a habit of stalling and being weak off idle, the updated software sorted that... and yes it is more road focussed, and to be perfectly frank its supposed to be, with only a passing nod to any off road aspirations, as a back lane, B' road scratcher is where it lives, and for that its superb, in essence the RE is better off road and the Triumph probably edges it on... swings and roundabouts...
@@Aitch412 Very true, though the Speed 400 is a better back lane scratcher ….
Lots of other reviews of the new Himmy have commented on vibration as a potential issue. You guys didn't even mention it so I'm assuming for you it wasn't an issue????
Didnt even notice it tbh
Although we are primarily a classic bike channel so maybe we are tolerant of a few vibes
@@LemonDrizzleGang that makes sense. I often ride a classic 500 so i should be fine🤣🤣
I noticed, that the Caballero has a different header pipe. This surely affects the fuelling.
Yes its an arrow we discuss it in the chats 😳
The Fantic for me. But, as you say, it's nothing like the RE. I wouldn't buy any RE. The Fantic is drop-dead good-looking. Shame it runs on inner tubes. Regarding the fuelling, a booster plug would sort that out, I'd imagine. As you say, it has an aftermarket exhaust. Standard, the fuelling is better than this example. I'd have one if I lived in Europe.
Good video.
Maybe it’s the pipe, but my Cab is absolutely fine in town.
Strongly suspect it needs a remap for the pipe once its going its great
@@LemonDrizzleGang There’s a standard map that comes with the pipe, but it’s also supposed to have the carbon end cans on I think ? - race only. Liberates another 5bhp, but extremely loud. It also might need fuel pump and exhaust gasket checking for issues/leaks as it looks like a first generation model and they had a few minor issues. Mines a Deluxe which had improved mapping, it runs smoothly in 4th at 30mph through town and on rough green lanes, is surprisingly tractable. I was surprised you had issues with the suspension - though they are set for 80Kg rider and I’m 65Kg so it floats over bumps really easily.
Yes, the arrow carbon cans come with a remap. They are a little louder but not excessive.....until you remove the baffles. Then all hell let's loose, I put them straight back in to avoid upsetting the neighbours.
@@redstormcrow Did the bike in the video have the carbon end cans or just the front pipe ?
@@nockianlifter661 standard pipes and map I think.
If it had a 19" front wheel I'd be interested but that 21" makes it look like a penny farthing.
Will be good offroad though 👍
You might get fed up with that noisy exhaust on a long trip.
100% agree
Nobody’s mentioning the elephant in the room; RE’s harsh vibrations at 60+……good all rounder, however. The Fantic the more exciting of the two, imo.
No elephant no vibes on this bike
The Fantic was much more vibey
@@LemonDrizzleGangFrantic Fantic uses a short stroke Yamaha engine with lightweight 2-stroke style crank, I had a WR450 bike and even with a balancer shafts it was unbearable for sustained high speed riding, far worse than my BSA B50 with CCM mods, a lot less fun too!
'Cos it's not true. You get some vibes at full throttle when accelerating from 60 up to 70mph. It is a single. If you want a smooth engine buy a twin. If you're that sensitive though, stay away from 4-cyl bikes.
@davidbesant
I’m assuming your bizarre comment was aimed at myself? Are you suggesting that these comment streams are not open to opinion? Forget 4 stroke bikes you irrationally say? Um, that’s a no as I’m happy with the five in my collection, one of which is a rare Yamaha SRX 600 single electric start. Deltabox frame, Brembo brake master cylinders and a joy to ride…..with very little vibration through the Rev range. I happened to ask the LDG about this issue as a friend of mine has just got his Himalayan 450 and has said it’s a bit vibey (still running in, mind) as have lots of other commentators. My advice to you is calm down, don’t be so precious about any particular make/model and listen to the opinions of others without getting personal. Safe riding, old boy.
I was telling it how it is. This was not the radom opinion of someone who's never ridden one. One of the biggest criticism of some bikes is that they are soleless and boring. It bothers me that so much you read in comments of such videos is entirely negative. The presenters here did a fantastic job. They left pretty much nothing out and still stressed the fun element, which is what bikes are all about.
Sod boring practically (ok - it does have its place), I want my bikes to be full of bikeness and the Caballero has that in spades. I’d buy this one faults and all. In fact - I have! 😊
That was Richards point he has a collection of bikeness bikes but as a modern he wants the practicality
i agree the Caballero is a riot but as a modern everyday bike the Himi fits his needs (also its not boring just different)
I hope it didnt come across as a criticism of the Fantic we all loved it 👍👍
@@LemonDrizzleGang Yes - I was being tongue in cheek - I fully understand where Rich is coming from, and agree with his thinking in his situation. I just think that the Cab is that rare thing in modern bikes (at this price point and in this sector) - one that is about the things we got into biking for all those years ago ( those of us who are older bikers - which unfortunately seems to be the majority these days..), and celebrated as such. The Himmy is very impressive I’m sure, and great value for money, but not lovely and todger tingling like the Cab - to me 🙂
@@andrewa640 Amen. The Fantic Cab 500 (450cc) is SUCH a rare bike; it's in a class of its own...
i didnt realise it was you Andrew I wouldnt have been as polite, hope you are well 👍👍🤣
I like both motorcycles but the display of the fantic is like from Chinese Wish for 3,99-
The switchgear is also a bit odd but I kind of like it
Caballero, 17 litre fuel tank? I don't think so!
Thanks that was my mistake Richard has already told me off about that mistake 👍
sent you a message on facebook messenger