Brief vehicle specs for fellow nerdburgringers DC5: Nankang ARjuan 255/225 Meister R Prototype Fancy bois (SDDV Clubrace) Plate type LSD, 5.4 final drive 3" exhaust by Solid Fab, RBC inlet & tuned by Jcal AP Racing 5200 332x32 with Raybestos ST45 Roughly 250hp/1100kg ~ 227bhp/tonne M3: Michelin Cup2 235/265 BC Racing Cheapo but bueno Stock LSD with 4.1 final drive Stock intake/exhaust (with test pipe) Porsche/Brembo 4 pot front/stock rear mit Pagid RSL29 Roughly 330hp/1380kg ~ 239bhp/tonne Kev's channel: th-cam.com/users/peachyquaver0
Oh man that M3 sounds SO good, I'm surprised it's stock intake/exhaust with just a test pipe! I guess because interior sound reduction is probably gone.
I've noticed that DC5 could go faster even when it was round 1. But BMW didn't let Integra get so furious as it could. The second lap showed us the true driver's skills and Honda's power. Thanks for this video. Such videos make me think more about getting deep in autosport. With love from Russia!
The DC5’s suspension/tires are superbly dialed in. Despite being fwd, if you notice, it turns in so much that the driver is constantly making corrections to keep it from over steering at times. I didn’t see a single understeer, impressive!
exactly! Saw that on 7:57 minutes when he dives into the second corner he corrects the wheel, because the car bites so hard into the inner side of the corner. Impressive!
@@King-Gilamashur2758 I for one think their power is ok and depends on the weight they pull+gearing. Stockengne might be even more than enough on a 1 ton car.
im not sure about rewarding as much as challenging. he seems to be doing a lot more corrections due to it being FWD. so probably a lot less power but with all the concentration it takes to keep it on par it doesn’t feel like it.
@@niallcorcoran4437 Isnt it the corrections and having to be good at what you do that makes it rewarding? GUy obviously has great control over the car and it just looks like a ton of fun.. Being a Dc5 Owner though with a K24 making 250whp, they are a BLAST to drive. DC5's are notoriously tough though when it comes to dialing in their suspension. Especially with aftermarket coilovers and sways. But once you get it right, its an amazing handling car.
@@JonHop1 yes that’s what i mean lol. i don’t mean that it seems more challenging to drive in a bad way at all. with the 200-250hp they’re capable of im positive its nothing short of fun. have a few friends who also complain of how nearly impossible they are to align.
Hey Danny.🖐 Getting ready to take a day trip with the family to the mountains this morning and now I'm pretty hyped up for the drive. They're not going to like it. GO!!🙌 10 of 10 on the editing! Awesome driving from you and Kev. I love to see capable cars like these in the rights hands. Very intense battle as expected.🔥 As an unexpected bonus, I know the song that's going to be playing in my head for the rest of the day.😊 Cheers Dan. Have a good day, bud.
That's some dam good driving, great video. FF vs FR two totally different cars but well matched. That DC5 planted and fast AF, thumbs up to the drive. Danny got gaped
Great video Dan! Awesome shots, simple editing and great driving. Always a pleasure to watch your ring adventures. The M3 seems to be set up nicely. And boy oh boy does that Teggy move!
That van pic 😂😂😂. Loved the video gentleman it was a great experience watching you guys run that track. That sound of that Type R is like no other ❤️❤️❤️. Thank You for sharing 😁😁😁
@@80PercentAshamedOfU oh don't get me wrong, I love the sound of the m5x engine gens, even the s50 and 52 sound really good... the s54 on the otherhand sounds absolutely tinny and just overall awful. Totally hate the engine sound stock but love the car otherwise. Just gives off the vibe of "badly engineered".
Even if it was a loss it was a win for your viewers, great video as always Danny. The DC5 looked a bit more composed than the M (you also looked to be taking less risks - can't blame you there). Excellent driving from both pilots.
@@wigan8079 The only thing that was frenetic about the DC5 was the driver's style as he was pushing the car harder. The DC5 looks more planted and compliant to me. The M has a lot of vertical movement in the suspension suggesting it's perhaps on the soft side. To be clear, I'm not hating. I own an M, the DC5 looks more stable.
Brilliant video! You have always been a good driver but I think you are even faster and smoother than before, very cool to watch. I was also very impressed with how fast that K24* (Checks spec in comments... wtf K20?) Integra went. I saw Kev's vid of him doing a 7:53 in that thing, which is incredible quick for N/A 2 Litre!
@@chavezunseen Yeah, but the RSX definitely grinded on that shift haha It happens, but that’s why you change your gear oil more frequently when you drive aggressively or track your car.
Kevs driving has come a long with the last year. He's pedaling the shit out of that thing! Can see he's at one with it. Editing gold Danny with the in car screen music performance. Loved it 😂 I've not been fussed with the dc2 being out of action for so long becuase the contents so good but seeing kev pedal the dc5 like that makes me miss it. Dc2 ft nurburgring 2021 maybe plz? :)
Wish this was a vlog style vid like before, build up, talking between laps, cutting between racing scenes etc. Love your vids but love the involvement of the Nurburgring vlog races 😁
Awesome video! Great performance from both cars and their drivers! It feels like the M3 wasnt bringing out the max potential. The driver went safer compared to dc5 guy who went max push(insane). Either way awesome fight and cant wait for similar future videos guys!
Nice to see Walter White taking the kids out for a bit of TF in the minibus. Great content as usual Danny, gutted my ring trip got cancelled this year.
Always enjoy seeing you on track Dan, & Kev pushing the Teg made for a very entertaining 20 minutes... I wish I could execute big toe / little toe even half as well 😭😂👍🏻
The dc5 is beautiful around the corners, although the M3 caught up slowly on the straights as soon as the corners came the dc5 just flew away. Beautiful driving my friend
Cars are savage bro, and looks like they're put to the limits ✊🏼 Just don't know how you guys can get over there with the lockdown and all. But overall an awesome raw vid
I find the Dc5 faster in tighter bends, m3 in the faster ones, but stability in the bimmer is better. Or Danny wasn't pushing enough... 😋 Great driving both. Congrats! That looked like fun.
I think it just looks like the M3 is more stable because of the RWD vs FWD and the DC5 was being pushed pretty hard. FWD rotates a bit differently around corners and they're driven differently than RWD. The M3 does have more body rigidity though, that + less body roll and not being pushed to 10/10 does make it seem more stable.. I dunno what I'm saying lol. I guess I agree but both are fantastic cars :)
@@kevtalbot137 okay I see, the E46 M3 Coupe with folding seats' torsional rigidity is- 12500 Nm/deg. Otherwise with steel roof it's 19000. The DC5's torsional rigidity is 25000 Nm/deg if I'm not mistaken. So yeah I see what you were talking about, potentially double. Other than that I think we can all agree the driving technique for RWD vs FWD is quite different.
@@alekdamyanov375 Sorry dude, you have to take my comments with a pinch of salt/tongue in cheek/silly grin. You said it yourself that you don't know what you're saying :) You said the M3 has more rigidity which is not correct, but besides that, they both have bolt in cages so those numbers are now very different. Ricardo was also backwards, the M3 is generally faster in tight corners, but the DC5 kills it in the faster stuff. Probably a combination of different tyre grip, fwd stability, car comfortability.. You're right though, fwd/rwd driving technique is different.
I will be uploading that later in the week. I like to make little stories out of the videos so be prepared to hear me chat some bollocks before seeing that move down the inside :D
Nice battle between the 2 cars.. you guys are having so much fun.... lucky people :D the BMW driver looks so much more relaxed. Type r driver looks anxious lol
@@Itr-tv7kt I am generally smoother on 'proper' circuits, but on the 'ring the car moves around a lot, I find it better to 'let' it move. There are plenty of fast drivers that aren't Jenson Button smooth. :)
Was the m3 running traction on or off? Looks like it’s off from the dash light but at certain points from the dc5 cam looks like the traction is kicking in.
Passing that van with the inserted picture was gold.
I liked that bit as well. Kids face was classic.
9:11
Fucking killed me 😂😂😂😂
Kids face: priceless!
Brief vehicle specs for fellow nerdburgringers
DC5:
Nankang ARjuan 255/225
Meister R Prototype Fancy bois (SDDV Clubrace)
Plate type LSD, 5.4 final drive
3" exhaust by Solid Fab, RBC inlet & tuned by Jcal
AP Racing 5200 332x32 with Raybestos ST45
Roughly 250hp/1100kg ~ 227bhp/tonne
M3:
Michelin Cup2 235/265
BC Racing Cheapo but bueno
Stock LSD with 4.1 final drive
Stock intake/exhaust (with test pipe)
Porsche/Brembo 4 pot front/stock rear mit Pagid RSL29
Roughly 330hp/1380kg ~ 239bhp/tonne
Kev's channel: th-cam.com/users/peachyquaver0
Great specs and great drivers..
How has he got that M3 to 1380kilos?
@@realMaverickBuckley remove interior, lightweight wheels, remove some accessories (GPS/TV tuner), 1x fibreglass drivers seat on solid rail, nothing drastic.
Great, I was wondering about the specs of both cars. Nice driving!
Oh man that M3 sounds SO good, I'm surprised it's stock intake/exhaust with just a test pipe! I guess because interior sound reduction is probably gone.
That DC5 with Kevin driving always impresses me. Always on the limit and rarely over it. Certainly made Dan work a bit harder to keep up 👍🏼
My personal pace car
About time Dan was challenged that's for sure! Awesome throughly enjoying the content 👌🏿
sounded fantastic too
Crikey that Teg is planted. Loved it all.
Damn! That DC5 is on rails, the corner speed exit is just crazy !!!😱👏
I was in the Porsche at 16:35 😂 You guys flew past!
Thanks for being as observant and courteous as you were. :)
12:25 that Integra is on rails, so smooth on the corners
Oh yes. Two great cars being thrashed around the ring. What more could you ask for?
Only onboard stats speed, revs, gforce i.e. Harry lap timer :)
STOP2NWO thats what a phones for m9 ;)
That's nice to see a manual E46 M3, driven and geared properly on the ring.
Dc5 has some cornering speed fair play 🤟🏻
I see Dan at the ring, I click like
I've noticed that DC5 could go faster even when it was round 1. But BMW didn't let Integra get so furious as it could. The second lap showed us the true driver's skills and Honda's power. Thanks for this video. Such videos make me think more about getting deep in autosport. With love from Russia!
@Endoe ONE uve meant simulator I guess. Hell nah man! I am need for real speed and pure adrenaline.
Two incredible N/A motors together at the ring what more can a man ask for 👌
That DC5 stepped it up in the last sector of the second battle. Great video.
The DC5’s suspension/tires are superbly dialed in. Despite being fwd, if you notice, it turns in so much that the driver is constantly making corrections to keep it from over steering at times. I didn’t see a single understeer, impressive!
exactly! Saw that on 7:57 minutes when he dives into the second corner he corrects the wheel, because the car bites so hard into the inner side of the corner. Impressive!
That DC5 is insane!!!! Handles like its on rails!!! Was on the edge of my seat the entire time...! Awesome vid...!
Thanks :)
DC5 looks like the more rewarding driving experience, but the driver seems pretty fast
K20s are very rewarding. Maybe a bit low on power without forced induction but very fun.
@@King-Gilamashur2758 I for one think their power is ok and depends on the weight they pull+gearing. Stockengne might be even more than enough on a 1 ton car.
im not sure about rewarding as much as challenging. he seems to be doing a lot more corrections due to it being FWD. so probably a lot less power but with all the concentration it takes to keep it on par it doesn’t feel like it.
@@niallcorcoran4437 Isnt it the corrections and having to be good at what you do that makes it rewarding? GUy obviously has great control over the car and it just looks like a ton of fun.. Being a Dc5 Owner though with a K24 making 250whp, they are a BLAST to drive. DC5's are notoriously tough though when it comes to dialing in their suspension. Especially with aftermarket coilovers and sways. But once you get it right, its an amazing handling car.
@@JonHop1 yes that’s what i mean lol. i don’t mean that it seems more challenging to drive in a bad way at all. with the 200-250hp they’re capable of im positive its nothing short of fun. have a few friends who also complain of how nearly impossible they are to align.
I watched videos like this with my arms crossed and cant help my muscles tense up whilst watching...love these race battles
Hey Danny.🖐 Getting ready to take a day trip with the family to the mountains this morning and now I'm pretty hyped up for the drive. They're not going to like it. GO!!🙌 10 of 10 on the editing! Awesome driving from you and Kev. I love to see capable cars like these in the rights hands. Very intense battle as expected.🔥 As an unexpected bonus, I know the song that's going to be playing in my head for the rest of the day.😊 Cheers Dan. Have a good day, bud.
Haha cheers Mick! Have a good one
That's some dam good driving, great video. FF vs FR two totally different cars but well matched. That DC5 planted and fast AF, thumbs up to the drive. Danny got gaped
He loves a good gaping. Lives for it. Forceps 'n that.
Bullshit, he couldn't keep uo
Great video Dan! Awesome shots, simple editing and great driving. Always a pleasure to watch your ring adventures. The M3 seems to be set up nicely. And boy oh boy does that Teggy move!
That intro 🙌🏽if you know you know
Highly modified machines rule the touge!
Oh yeah, real car guys®/girls® will know... ™BMI.
Man that dc5 was rapid :o
That van pic 😂😂😂. Loved the video gentleman it was a great experience watching you guys run that track. That sound of that Type R is like no other ❤️❤️❤️. Thank You for sharing 😁😁😁
This Hot Version vid somehow missing bikini girl
😂
Dont forget the cat ears and gloves lol
@@AnonYmous-hu7jo And DK being a sifty fucker :)
Really enjoyed watching you guys race. Really impressed. Well done Dan.
At least in the sound department the Type R is a huge win lol
Yeah, I actually own an e46 m3. No matter what exhaust you put on... they always sound horrid
@@Awesomeman1987 I agree on the Honda engine, but I adore the E46s metallic sounding straight 6. Even the 25, 28 and 30 sound great.
@@80PercentAshamedOfU oh don't get me wrong, I love the sound of the m5x engine gens, even the s50 and 52 sound really good... the s54 on the otherhand sounds absolutely tinny and just overall awful. Totally hate the engine sound stock but love the car otherwise. Just gives off the vibe of "badly engineered".
Awesomeman1987 the only sound good with headers and a 3.5in straight pipe
I dunno I kind of love the angry wasps... But yeah the teg sounds classic honda.
I love the note of an m3 but that Honda sounds awesome. It’s like the sound in the touring cars ! Great driving guys
Even if it was a loss it was a win for your viewers, great video as always Danny. The DC5 looked a bit more composed than the M (you also looked to be taking less risks - can't blame you there). Excellent driving from both pilots.
The DC5 looks more composed than the M hahaha, the other way round more like.
@@wigan8079 The only thing that was frenetic about the DC5 was the driver's style as he was pushing the car harder. The DC5 looks more planted and compliant to me. The M has a lot of vertical movement in the suspension suggesting it's perhaps on the soft side. To be clear, I'm not hating. I own an M, the DC5 looks more stable.
Brilliant video! You have always been a good driver but I think you are even faster and smoother than before, very cool to watch. I was also very impressed with how fast that K24* (Checks spec in comments... wtf K20?) Integra went. I saw Kev's vid of him doing a 7:53 in that thing, which is incredible quick for N/A 2 Litre!
Lol, I thought the same thing.
I can see you're really enjoying editing these videos and it comes across!!
Brilliant editing, the Hall and Oates was perfect
Rapid!!!, bloody hell the m3 could not keep up. Amazing that Honda😳, shocked if I’m honest.
@@y0057 Vtec baby
Jeeeeez that DC5 was all over you in the corners Dan, impressed with how planted that thing is in the corners.
Ring videos always deserve a thumbs up
AR1 vs Cup 2 😁
3:30 gear grind?
The BMW though, had a super raspy exhaust that almost sounded like gear grinds on quick downshifts.
I think it’s just straight piped from the headers back that’s why it’s so loud and gives the raspy sound your hearing.
@@chavezunseen Yeah, but the RSX definitely grinded on that shift haha
It happens, but that’s why you change your gear oil more frequently when you drive aggressively or track your car.
Kevs driving has come a long with the last year. He's pedaling the shit out of that thing! Can see he's at one with it.
Editing gold Danny with the in car screen music performance. Loved it 😂
I've not been fussed with the dc2 being out of action for so long becuase the contents so good but seeing kev pedal the dc5 like that makes me miss it. Dc2 ft nurburgring 2021 maybe plz? :)
Dc2 winter project
Such brilliant editing, both cars look and running mint 👌🏻.....fwd can be driven so much harder with less fear of reprise IMO. Great video Dan👍🏼
Without doubt the fwd is easier to hustle, especially on the section towards the end of the lap where Dan's watching TV.
I'm jealous of both of you. that Honda sure sounds good.
Incredible driving by the DC5! Would love to do this trip one day.
Watching the integra hit those turns at 12:24 is very satisfying
It felt pretty good at the time. :)
@@kevtalbot137 thing is planted. Makes more excited to get my sedan grounded
Absolutely stellar driving from both drivers, well done.👍😀
This is lowkey one of the best car vids on youtube for true car enthusiasts
Absolutely love it!! These 2 total different cars attacking nurb like crazy is awesome 👌 😎 tks for that crazy vid🙏
9:15 hahaha epic video, sick racing from all!
I always love seeing Honda's harass BMW's on a racetrack
“GO” **LIKE**
This was by far the best racing video ive seen 🔥🔥🔥 content
This is awesome, great to see such different cars so similar in performance. Nice driving from you both! 🔥
Wish this was a vlog style vid like before, build up, talking between laps, cutting between racing scenes etc. Love your vids but love the involvement of the Nurburgring vlog races 😁
Patience..
@@dannyDC2 Hehehehehe sorry!
To of my favorite cars going at it. Great driving from both drivers guys. I hope to one day drive the nurgenburger
always enjoy your run on the ring videos. hope to see more
The sleeping policeman in the cone zone after exiting the barrier, seems a annoying nonsense. Aren't the cones themselves enough?
Both cars amazing,both drivers amazing and that all on Nürburgring ❤ Pleasure to watch !
I've been waiting for this!!
Well Nurburgring videos since my trip got cancelled this year lmao
Good driving gents. I was there on the Monday and couldn’t believe how little grip there was. Didn’t seem to stop you two though😀.
First time in the wet for me, was amazed by how little grip there was!
I did a genuine LOL at that she’s gone bit. Funny as fuck.
I was expecting gran turismo 2 prize music at the end when i heard the drum roll
Awesome matey all your hard work paid off ..
Great battle, great content
Thanks Dan and Kevin!
Give us feedback on the M3 upgrades
Awesome video! Great performance from both cars and their drivers! It feels like the M3 wasnt bringing out the max potential. The driver went safer compared to dc5 guy who went max push(insane). Either way awesome fight and cant wait for similar future videos guys!
Max push(insane) is how I live my life. You should see me brush my teeth.
@@kevtalbot137 XDDD epic
Im torn between E46 M3 or E92 M3 track toy....
Always a joy to listen to a K20A.
Nice to see Walter White taking the kids out for a bit of TF in the minibus. Great content as usual Danny, gutted my ring trip got cancelled this year.
Great vid. Great driving from you both 👍🏻
Nice driving Dan. I bet the other blokes arms were tired from wrestling that wheel... Lol.
Wow I didn't even notice at until you mentioned it, but the type R was definitely having to fight to manage the steering wheel compared to that M3.
Just look at the drama and experience between the two cars :P
Always enjoy seeing you on track Dan, & Kev pushing the Teg made for a very entertaining 20 minutes... I wish I could execute big toe / little toe even half as well 😭😂👍🏻
The type R is so well dampened and seems really well sorted. The M3 seems a lot more bouncy. Great driving 👍
If I could smash the like button 10000s time I would. Awesome drive guys. Definitely worth the watch. Are we going to get the s2k Vs M3 next? 🤣🤣
That was quality, well done. Be great to see them both on the same tyres
That best motoring intro 👌🏻
Awsome video and great editing 👍
Yehh boiiii,. Nice upload Dan 👍
How much work has been done to the DC5?! M3 should be walking away on the uphill straight but it isn't
there are some specs in the pinned post. I do pull him in over 120mph. I will be uploading some more videos soon where you can see this
Corner exit speed is higher on the dc5 and it weighs less. As Dan says, the M3 pulls on it at higher speeds due to the higher power.
M3 Hall & Oates ?
Time to get the DC2 prepped
Awesome lads, very well matched
when a BMW sounds more Honda than a Honda.
A nice comparison, the M3 smooth and fast, the DC5 driven aggressively and fast.
I might be faster if I was smoother, but that's not my style. I can and am smoother on a smoother circuit.
i like the best motoring opening, and the video too !
Wow,,,, That DC5 owner gave up daily drive..... 5.4 final drive? : )
The dc5 is beautiful around the corners, although the M3 caught up slowly on the straights as soon as the corners came the dc5 just flew away. Beautiful driving my friend
Both really good drivers, but ITR for the Win! Amazing driving!
Both cars sound absolutely epic!
Cars are savage bro, and looks like they're put to the limits ✊🏼 Just don't know how you guys can get over there with the lockdown and all. But overall an awesome raw vid
M1 > M25 > M20 > Le tunnel > E40 > 4 > 61 > 1
@@dannyDC2 just didn't realise they allowed people over 👍🏼
We went on the train, so didn't mix with anyone. We drove straight through France and Belgium.
That DC5 driver is nuts. Loved it
I'm of a mostly stable mindset. Mostly.
@@kevtalbot137 Don't lie to me. It takes a crazy to recognize another one lol
@@jdmfreak22 👀
yeah better than m3 driver !
I find the Dc5 faster in tighter bends, m3 in the faster ones, but stability in the bimmer is better. Or Danny wasn't pushing enough... 😋 Great driving both. Congrats! That looked like fun.
You are a mixture of correct and incorrect.
I think it just looks like the M3 is more stable because of the RWD vs FWD and the DC5 was being pushed pretty hard. FWD rotates a bit differently around corners and they're driven differently than RWD. The M3 does have more body rigidity though, that + less body roll and not being pushed to 10/10 does make it seem more stable.. I dunno what I'm saying lol. I guess I agree but both are fantastic cars :)
You guys should get together and write some books on vehicle dynamics. I would read it, at least until the blood came from my ear.
@@kevtalbot137 okay I see, the E46 M3 Coupe with folding seats' torsional rigidity is- 12500 Nm/deg. Otherwise with steel roof it's 19000. The DC5's torsional rigidity is 25000 Nm/deg if I'm not mistaken. So yeah I see what you were talking about, potentially double. Other than that I think we can all agree the driving technique for RWD vs FWD is quite different.
@@alekdamyanov375 Sorry dude, you have to take my comments with a pinch of salt/tongue in cheek/silly grin. You said it yourself that you don't know what you're saying :) You said the M3 has more rigidity which is not correct, but besides that, they both have bolt in cages so those numbers are now very different. Ricardo was also backwards, the M3 is generally faster in tight corners, but the DC5 kills it in the faster stuff. Probably a combination of different tyre grip, fwd stability, car comfortability.. You're right though, fwd/rwd driving technique is different.
Thoughts after this trip? Any changes to the M3 in mind?
The pace the DC5 can keep is really up there, the driving is flawless.
I would like to have the same tyres and go again 🤣 always come back with a list from Nür but got enough winter plans
God that dc5 sounds sweet
Awesome video!
Good to see you enjoying the m3 and getting some seat time in all you need now is the dc2 ready and then you will be spoiled for choice 👍🏻
That looks fun. Any Oulton park in the pisssing rain footage? Or were you all steamed up?
I will be uploading that later in the week. I like to make little stories out of the videos so be prepared to hear me chat some bollocks before seeing that move down the inside :D
How did the new cooling setup do?
Perfect
@@dannyDC2 Class, worth the graft then!
The dc5 seems to be more prepared, more lightened. It even doesn't have a rear mirror
Really enjoyed this - please re-upload as a "split screen" take so we can see both whips simultaneously.
Hall&Oats at the end got me 🤣
What a lovely Sunday drive!
lol i was expecting the pajama sam/humongous entertainment intro to play at the end when i heard that drum roll
Mega video Dan!
Nice battle between the 2 cars.. you guys are having so much fun.... lucky people :D
the BMW driver looks so much more relaxed. Type r driver looks anxious lol
Not anxious, I just enjoy hustling the car. I tend to use a lot of steering wheel input to manipulate the car.
@@kevtalbot137 im not expert but you should try being as smooth as possible see if that improves your lap time
@@Itr-tv7kt I am generally smoother on 'proper' circuits, but on the 'ring the car moves around a lot, I find it better to 'let' it move. There are plenty of fast drivers that aren't Jenson Button smooth. :)
Was the m3 running traction on or off? Looks like it’s off from the dash light but at certain points from the dc5 cam looks like the traction is kicking in.
off always due to steering rack changes
out of interest when does it look like traction kicks in?