So Doomer sat through 3 fucking hours of Avatar 2 but could only sit through 20 minutes of Top Gun: Maverick. Maverick pushing past Mach 10 is entirely consistent with his character - he pushes the limits of himself and his aircraft. He breaks rules and disobeys orders, that's who he is as a person. Yes, it was stupid of him to push the aircraft even further when he has already going at an insane speed, but that's who he is! It would go against his character if after reaching Mach 10 he just slowed down and then went and landed the Darkstar without incident.
@@Stop_Gooning It was okay but I was put off by some of the really blatant nostalgia-bait (I can't remember most of the examples but the one where goose's kid is playing piano in the bar is a good example of what I mean). I was never really a fan of the original movie and I think the film relies partly on watchers already being invested in the characters in advance. If you don't already like Maverick as a character the movie is nothing special at all IMO.
I feel like if both Doomer and Fringy remembered that Maverick actually did save the program, and that the ship only had to hit 10, not survive going over it or staying on it long, and that the general that viewed it said that Maverick delayed the inevitable, it would solve Doomer's entire issue with the introductory scene. The program was successfully saved because the requirements of the inspection were met, which was admitted by the inspector. That is the reason why Maverick went further. He knew the program was safe, so now he could test the limits of the aircraft he was in. The plane would not be fit to fly again even if Maverick didnt go over mach 10 (the plane was literally melting. In the words of Bob Parr, it was coming down anyways), so it wasn't too large a waste of resources for the sake of thrill either. Therefore, Doomer has NO leg to stand on here. A shame Fringy didn't remember
Yep. Not to mention people do things like this all the time, like after WW 2 when the first jets were being created, the 60's with the space race, hell all of racing. For things like that to progress you need people like Maverick whether you think it's dumb or not. As some who often can't understand why people do the dumb things they do or think(in my opinion), even I understood why Maverick' made that choice even though I thought it was dumb. Doomer must hate science, daredevil's, all sports(extreme or other wise), and all manner of things involving unnecessary risk and decisions. That last part is sarcasm.
Yeah people even screw with the designated limit in military testing irl quite a bit. If anything my problem with the film was Tom Cruise surviving an ejection that high and fast out of an exploding plane.
I loved the shotgun dose of MauLer, never heard him be so shortman but it's good to know even in a time crunch the Longman _can_ deliver a straight 6 minutes of facts.
VFX team spent 13 years making the visuals as good as they could be. The writers spent 13 minutes on the script. I’m all for improving the technology used in film, so that we have less limitations on what stories we can tell, but that still means storytelling comes first.
You would really think that, as he waited for the tech to improve, he'd take advantage of this rare opportunity in Hollywood to, ya know, actually redraft his script.
@@TheMemeRepository Remember though, “NEVER ask James Cameron if he redrafts his scripts. Questions like that from other writers are offensive” - Hitop Parker
I think the quote from George Lucas is relevant here: "You don't come up with technology and then figure out what to do with it. You come up with an artistic problem, then create the technology to solve it". At least in filmmaking, creativity in art or creativity in storytelling should be the drivers of technological innovation and development.
@@diazinamon2431 doomer said he walked out of top gun maverick 20 minutes in (the “and I wasn’t even board” part might be a reference to I hate everything saying he saw TLJ twice and wasn’t even bored)
They have cloning technology, so couldn’t they just clone just the brain juice. It’s like when poachers complain that there isn’t enough ivory anymore, when they killed all the elephants
@@arisorokin Are we over-looking the fact that they could *imprint your existing memories into the clone??* [EDIT] I think we are looking over that fact; they basically already have immortality. [DOUBLE EDIT] every 20 years or so you could just "Avatar" yourself into a younger clone and LITERALLY have an uninterrupted consciousness for multiple lifespans.
@@arisorokin Or just do what any modern-day capitalist would do, and just breed them like there's no fucking tomorrow. Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos would have solved death inside of two hours and the Navi would be peacefully jacking their brainstems into a better, free internet. The problem is that filmwriters don't write villains to care about their own goals. They make them act evil to intentionally undermine themselves. You've found the most valuable resource there ever could exist in the galaxy and it's alive, so you can expand it near-infinitely. You should be building massive new environments to allow this whale population to propagate, perhaps even terraforming multiple additional worlds to introduce this species to just to fill all their others. Instead they go in with the sloppiest, messiest possible means of collecting whale juice that actually risks the collection of any of it, much less enough of it to be useful to yourself and the people you care about. Yes, perhaps it takes decades or even longer to get your whale breeding operation working. But if just a bit of it makes you immortal, what's the rush? You get your initial samples and take your sweet time upscaling while prioritizing whale juice to the most valuable individuals who are at risk of dying. That's not even getting into the fact that they can just clone or produce bodies in tanks on their own-they could probably just synthesize this stuff given the ridiculous technology level we see.
@@Stop_Gooning Am I missing something here with this equation: 1) We have seen Avatar bodies be created which require a 'pilot' in order to function. We have seen that they go limp when the connection is interrupted, such as when the power is pulled or the pilot in the machine dies. 2) We have seen the ability to take complete brain scans and permanently map them biologically onto the Avatar body. After this occurs there is no way to seperate the two again. However as we see which Quarich, despite the brain scan being merged with an Avatar body, Recom-Quarich is a wholely new entity. 3) We have the Whale Brain Juice that "stops the aging of cells", whatever is meant by that. I don't think that can even work given the way cell replication and replacement works. Since aging in humans is the result of degredation of the DNA source through repeat cell duplication and replication, I could see DNA Re-enrichment as being a functional way to extend lifespan, but I don't understand what is meant be "stops the aging of cells". Does it mean no more cell duplication, or unlimited cell duplication? both are nonsensical. However that is beside the point. Where in this collection of details is the pathway to "avatar yourself into a younger clone and literally have an uninterrupted consciousness for multiple lifetimes". If you take a brain scan and create a new body, that body will be a new person, it won't be a continued consciousness. If you use the Whale juice, then you are maintaining your current body. Best case is: 1) Make human body immortal with Whale Juice 2) Make Avatar Body to pilot remotely 3) When Avatar dies, make new Avatar, and repeat.
Fringy around 1:33:00: "I feel like I've seen movies that did more in an hour and a half" Yes. And a great example of that is Puss in Boots 2, everyone needs to see it
Regarding Kiri's father: I think Sigourney Weaver's avatar became pregnant when they tried the "Spirit Transfer Ritual". So Kiri is the child of a virgin and a god, because James Cameron thinks that Zack Snyder is too subtle with his Jesus references
It's worth noting that unobtainium is a hyper-efficient superconductor with virtually no waste, it was necessary to create faster than light ships. Being able to achieve that fixes all human problems for the foreseeable future. It's bigger than some humans versus Pandora, it's all humans and access to fertile planets vs Pandora
Meh, I didn’t watch top gun maverick either. Wasn’t a big fan of the original and I’m not a big fan of Tom cruise or Val Kilmer. I’ll watch it at some point if it goes on Netflix or something. But I’m not gonna say I know it’s bad, either. Just doesn’t interest me enough to wanna see it in theaters
@@EmptyAltruism I mean I didn’t watch it either but his reasoning was beyond lame. I’m glad Rags said something about the “for no reason” comments he kept saying even though Fringy explained the reasoning.
@@doomermedia “No reason.” False. There clearly was a reason; it was a character reason. Maverick was being characterized as a reckless flyboy who pushes himself and his plane as far as physically possible; even to the detriment of those around him. *cue line about Maverick ruining the multi-million dollar plane* It’s a personal reason, and you can disagree with his choice to do so, but the reason exists, nonetheless. You just didn’t like the reason, which is fine; it just means that you may not mesh well with Maverick as a character, or as a lead. On a personal note, I never saw the original Top Gun, so I’m sure I missed a few references or context for certain scenes, but I loved the movie as a whole in spite of that because I can respect a character who makes choices I disagree with. I’m right there with you in saying that him attempting to push further after hitting the 10G mark is a stupid choice, but I get that it is in line with his character, and feel that this opening scene is crucial in telling me what kind of man Maverick is. Especially since I didn’t see the original.
I feel like he has zero context for like any film now since he can't grasp why the best pilot in the world wouldn't try to see how much of a record he can get. Like basic human functions
@@doomermedia watch Mover Ruins Movies on the film. He’s a real, very experienced navy pilot and he tears Maverick a good one with its retardation and puts a nail in the “the planes are real, no CGI! and Tom Cruise really flies it!” nonsense. He didn’t change my opinion on the film, I watched it opening weekend and hated almost every minute for all the reasons this dude points out. Totally agree with your film watching strategy too. When think I think fringy didn’t understand that while yes you can’t watch a film and decide if it’ll be a 6 or a 7 you can tell if it’ll be a 2ish or a 8ish. And I too find awful shit really unpleasant to watch even for 2 hrs
I see Doomer continues to be a good guest, until he once again commits a big cringe. Never change Edit: After the New Year's EFAP, I would like him to change
i find it weird doomer agrees tom cruise is awesome for pushing the limits in the name of entertaining people, but cant believe tom's character will do something to push the limits for the sake of seeing how far he can go
Thank you. I said it out loud. Rags likes puns and he missed it too. Maybe they’re having drinks or something? Anyways, thanks for saying what I was thinking…
Imo I think one of the biggest issues is how fast they made Jakes integration, especially considering how cameron was wanting to make it a franchise. If avatar was one movie, him doing the full zero to hero makes sense, but with 2+ it doesn't. Comparing to lotr where a character like Sam starts off respectable but smaller, and you watch him progress until he's fighting shelob and sneaking into forts to save his friend. In avatar everything goes too fast, Jake has no lasting problems as being an avatar, he nearly instantly gets the girl and a family, and each movie now has been a glorified fight of the week. If he cares enough about the world to put actual billions into it the first film at least should have been dedicated solely to Jake coming to terms with the avatar system, the Navi, the existential crisis plotline of his human body dying, learning how to survive with primitive medicine and learning skills, his relationship with neytiri being slower, and not including the additional human generic bad guy elements at all until a later film. Avatar as a franchise is currently basically a tech demo first, political propaganda second, and story third. There's tons of stuff they could do with alien creatures, medicines, history, and the heroes journey, but instead he tries to be cool, succeeds, and then from that point on the plot is just cowboys v indians, and the cowboys don't know how to use guns.
I could see the kids learning dive-breathing before the parents do. It's like kids overseas learning a language easily where their parents who are used to one language really struggle with the new skill. At least for Neytiri it makes sense because she's hardcore tree-person and doesn't like the new shit, while Sully has already been around the "relearn everything" rodeo and the kids are over-open about everything. I can see what they were going for there. Quartch surviving that long with no brain damage is fucked though.
@@johnratfink7343 I was more talking about Neytiri struggling. Jake's competence is whatever the plot needs it to be. Deadass forgot he was a marine, he doesn't act like it.
Doomer, at the start of Top Gun 2, Maverick wasn't flying for the Fighter Weapons School (Top Gun), we was flying for a different project called the Darkstar. He gets called back to Top Gun immediately after. So you're just straight up wrong. You're factually incorrect. Just say ''I didn't like the film after the first 20 minutes, and so I left. No further comment''.
@@doomermedia I was thinking at the end of the film "you guys probably shouldn't be celebrating on that flight deck, you likely just started a war and your within flying distance of said countries coast, thousands are now going to die because of what you did". Felt like that was the start of another potential film. Fuck, I'm old.
I like doomer but sometimes I feel like his brain decides "ITS TIME TO GET ULTRA -AUTISTIC", no offence to people with that disability, I know he's acting much worse than most of you
@@johnmcternan4157 the weapons program they blew up was illegal. It’s not like the country they attacked didn’t know who attacked them, they just can’t do anything about it because doing so would acknowledge why they were attacked in the first place
Anybody else notice how Doomer has a nasty tendency to repeat the same argument over and over again with increasing exasperation? I like you man, but you can't keep getting caught in loops like this.
Doomer doesn't know what he is talking about, the yt algorithm is purposefully broken, it actively pushes people away from channels lile these. If I'm watching any two channels among nerdrotic, drinker, efap, voxis media, weekend, thorias, robot head etc., it should be recommending me others in the same vein, especially after I finish watching a jokey review for a film that they all have covered. The only channels it does recommend occasionally is just drinker and nerdrotic amongst a sea of cringe consoomer essayists that aren't anything like the channels that I watch, and they are often much smaller channels than the ones mentioned, and on those rare occasions where I clicked on a new channel and ended up downvoting the video, it never links me back to drinker and nerdrotic. I remember back when I discovered Sargon through a youtube recommend from an angry joe video where he covered drama, it did used to offer those kinds if counterpoints to people, but now they only go one way.
meanwhile mine only shows the top 2 youtubers I watched that week. Unironically YT gives me 90% of the same stuff I already watched. As for new or related creators, I think the ratio is around 0.5%.
@@kianrodriguez4455 If I was James Cameron I'd have released a 90 minute sci-fi action blockbuster to theaters and supplemented it with a speculative-biology series on streaming.... But hey, that's just me. There's a sci-fi speculative-biology series on TH-cam I really like called "Beware the Qu"
14:55 IIRC. Aquaman's power over fish in the comics extends to all living creatures in some iterations. There's a comic where he ha an interview with someone explaining he doesn't talk to fish he overrides the decision making part of their brain with whatever his weird will powers are. And he mentions he can do the same to the man interviewing him.
That's just typical comic book powercreep bullshit. We have a lame character who's basically just a meme at this point, let's give them a ridiculous power boost and claim they've just been holding it back this whole time.
In defense of _Once Upon a Time ... in Hollywood,_ I think the non-sequitur nature of the ending is a commentary on how random and unforseen the actual Tate tragedy was. To them, it was just a normal week in their lives with regular Hollywood worries to deal with, and then some hippies pull up with some devil shit out of nowhere. Tarantino makes it the same here, except, what if they walked into _a different_ house? I see Doomer's criticism but I quite like the ending because it somehow feels more respectful to the Tates; rather than puffing up the Mansons into some big looming threat that's foreshadowed and gets into the characters heads rent-free in the months leading up to the tragedy, instead he decided to do none of that and just have them actually be random hippies who have nothing to do with the plot. In terms of fiction this direction hurts it; but as a tribute it's the right call and it's to Tarantino's credit that he decided to take that L.
Imagine how based it would be if someone replaced the bugs in Starship Troopers with the Na'vi, and the entire movie just played out with no other changes. XD
@Bill Clinton Enjoyer Not really what I would call subtext. Rather more than a bit too obvious for that. But anyway - who said anything about better or worse? The only thing I care about is that the only good smurf is a dead smurf! >:D
Early in the stream, iirc when they're talking about the title "Way of Water". He references Spike telling a random guy about the way of water (Bruce Lee's way of water) and how it had meaning, while in Avatar it's rather empty.
29:08 wait ... Hold on. Humanity has conquered interstellar travel and somehow earth is out of resources? You're telling me that Pandora is literally the only planet they've found that supports life? And even then, it's deadly to humans
They need unobtaniun for use in effective interstellar ships. Earth is probaably just considered a dump. It’s survivable but most don’t think highly of it. Humans are coming to pandora for the metal to make it way easier to conquer the rest of the stars
@Bill Clinton Enjoyer I was drawing a deliberate distinction: that achieving the bare minimum to qualify as interstellar travel does not mean you have "conquered" interstellar travel. The galaxy is a big place, and the vast majority of it might be beyond the reach of a civilisation whose proven range is only a 10 light year round drip.
I legitimately loved when Rags's"ss's started to growl and bork at Doomer for saying "FOR NOUGH RAISIN" too many times. If Doomer wants to swim in the Big Boy Pool of Media Analysis, he's gonna have to drop the CinemaSins-style exaggerations and hyperbole. Rags is a harsh sensei, but Doomer-san will surely learn well.
Well, that raises an important question, doesn't it? If Doomer bends to Rags's'ss's's'sssss will, that won't be very Alpha of Doomer, will it? If Doomer wishes to remain independent and not submissive to Ragsssssssssssssssssssss - then he should stay the course, yes?
@@TheMaleRei He must choose. Rag's's'"s";s;s-s=s=s[s]s]\s may be teaching him valuable lessons, and maybe in order to become Sigma-Tier Reviewer Doomer, he must, for now, be as the beta.
Something that really pissed me off with them just making humans evil is when they were hunting the whale and the baby whale. They make a note like "we are going after this one because it is slow and won't leave it baby," but like here on earth today. We have basic hunting rules like if there is an animal with a baby too young to survive on its own, don't hunt it because then u won't have that baby to grow and have kids. Like u are killing 2 generations while only getting the reward for one. So it just to me, in the movies came across like oh people are super evil. Really annoying because they could have done any whale that didn't have kids, but then it wouldn't be as sad.
In terms of a James Camron film having staying power in the theaters, Titanic seems like a massive outlier. From what I've heard, theaters were given two versions of the movie: one that had a censored drawing scene, and one where it was uncensored. The theaters didn't make it explicit which version they were showing, so it made a lot of people go see the movie more than once. Not to mention that the industry has changed drastically since the 90s with the introduction of streaming and the increased prices of going to the movies in the first place
This is also his first release in the post Disney+ era..... meaning Avatar 2 will be rushed to streaming as soon as possible in a desperate attempt to save that clusterfuck, because guess who owns distribution rights.....
Imagine releasing your movies like they are pokemon games. Avatar 3 blue version vs Avatar 3 green version, with different actors and settings, but the exact same plot.
Also, Titanic, if I recall correctly, was seen as a safe "Date Movie". Where women could swoon over how *romantic* the "true love" story was - and men endured it while waiting for the ship to sink and eventually hoping to get laid after the women got tingles from the film and needed an outlet.
Quaritch's consciousness being transferred into an avatar body could've set up something similar to what they did in SOMA. Damn that could be so interesting, but they do nothing with it.
yeah it's a shame that this is the last film they're doing if only they were going to explore the idea of him being a weird amalgam personality in future films oh wait
After hearing about the mermaids vs tree people discussion I'm very annoyed that Metal didn't save this episode until he had more visual to pull from the movie. I wanted to see the fuckable alien babes.
Rags, opening with the least positive opinion of the group: “Oh boy. Umm. So... Avatar 2. I don’t just think this movie is very bad, I kind of hate it.” Rags, 30 mins later: “One of the reasons I absolutely despise this film is...” My hero.
Remember, the opportunity cost for avatar's budget is not only money, but also time. This budget has been locked up in this project for a good while (hard to say exactly how long, as it probably got money in staggered waves???). This normally doesn't come into play with movies as much, as they tend to get made in a couple years at most, but with the 10+ years avatar 2 had, the interest starts to compound in a more standard investment it most definitely has been compared to. Cameron mentioning this movie is a really bad business case make me believe he's seen projections of this type, and it's also the only reasonable way the 2 billion expectation can be justified. what
Most of the money presumably went in over a very short period of time to finalize the visual effects, it's not like the writers and the actors were gonna break the budget while they got to that point.
I'd like to take a moment and thank Samael527 for inadvertently introducing me to a neat 40k fanfiction. And here I thought I had read all the good ones.
In first movie when they shoot arrows from the ground to helicopters, the arrow flies against gravity, so it loses velocity and bounces off the glass (but scratches it). In the final battle Neytiri flies on her ikran downwards on a helicopter and shoots an arrow in the process, so the arrow flies towards gravity, which accelerates it, plus additional speed from diving ikran. So yes, this time it pierces the glass.
If the arrows have so little power behind them that gravity fucks them over in such (relatively) short distances, then the helicopters should be durable enough to deflect the arrows regardless.
My attention is on the 2nd son that almost kill either himself or his siblings for like 3 times, then finally he got his older brother killed. I hate him.
They both went to save the whale, then one was captured and other went to save him and got shot, while the first one tried his best to not let him die, but sure, it's all his fault...
BREAKING: The sequel to the premier Style over Substance Show was a Style over Substance Show. also please stop inviting Doomer to things he makes my brain twitch
Doomer continues being terrible in a debate. He's fun in the conversation but absolutely cannot argue a point to save his life then gets way too emotionally invested in defending his point.
Great movie for normies and kids. Anyone that actually appreciates an objectively good movie will consider this forgettable in less than 2h. Avatar 2 feels like it was written and directed by Robert Rodrigez on a bad day.
All of you missed the most important and biggest fucking issue and I'm kinda surprised. They retconned the entire fucking planet. I've only seen this movie once but I could give you a huge list of references for this but I stick to the most prominent one. Do you remember why they brought back general man as a cat person? It was so he could "blend in" and walk around in molested by the wild life! What?! Fucking excuse me?! Nah fuck that, remember how they show that as a new fact of the world? Remember the tiny dog aliens? Sort of like jackals? Well when general man and his team (in full gear) are walking through the jungle a pack of them show up, growl, then leave and the film narrates that he successfully blened in.... WHAT You may not have seen the first movie in awhile but you might have forgotten that one of the ways they show Pandora is dangerous is by HAVING A PACK OF THEM ATTACK JAKE. They just fucking forgot that the animal they showed to demonstrate the danger of the planet was an animal. Now it's just a white blood cell or some shit. I'm a monster designer. It's my passion and some of the aliens from this series are some of my favorite of all time but this movie fucking destroyed them. It literally changed their anatomy to fit this new bullshit retcon! I've been working on a script for a video and just talking about ths monster designs has gotten me to TWO FUCKING HOURS already! They fucking murdered the only saving grace of this world
I'm also baffled the artificial Na'vi can connect through their weird little neural-tail system yet they can't make four fingered Na'vi which is apparently the only thing that makes the natives aware their outsider 'demons.'
@@silenceyouidiot I like how we just really quickly gloss over the fact that 1) the space aliens have DNA just like life on Earth 2) human DNA is successfully spliced into the lab grown space aliens 3) the artificial space aliens grow multiple new bones and muscles (the extra finger) because "human DNA" Dawg, we have sci-fi brain-magic. I'm pretty sure we could gene-edit that finger away.
2:37:00 Doomer with his terrible hot takes. I gotta say, it does make the conversation entertaining. He's "literally" walked out or turned off a movie after only about 20 minutes thousands of times. Being plural, that's 2,000 minimum. He didn't specify if it was a different movie each time, but that seems to be the implication. So, he's literally only watched the first 20 minutes of at least 2,000 movies. What a waste of 28 24-hour days.
2:41:20 He doesn't watch anything he expects to be bad? Bruh... you've literally been disappointed by the first 20 minutes of thousands of movies. You should probably start lowering your expectations at this point. Or just use literally and figuratively correctly.
2:46:30 So, let me get this straight... Doomer doesn't understand why a TEST pilot would want to push something to the limits to TEST what those limits are? Come on, man.
You mean people went up in a space shuttle and it exploded? They were idiots! Why would you even try to do something extraordinary?! Don't go to the moon. There's no air there! What are they, idiots?!
Rags: I don't believe that hunting whales for the immortality juice is evil. Also Rags: I don't believe that humans are so evil they will just come to this planet and start hunting whales. Which is it?
Why not both? After learning about the immortality it makes sense to hunt them nut the humans would have to return and randomly start hunting whales to find out about it.
After listening to it myself, his problem mainly seems to stem from the way they hunt. In other words, hunting whales for brain juice is fine. Immediately hunting them with missile pods to the point of extinction is stupid.
@@joshuabuckle1216 They study everything they can for colonisation. Earth whales are useful for a lot of stuff, so seems logical they would get one whale for autopsy.
What’s this in here? They’ve got a little podcast, How queer! And who would ever think? And why? They’re covering all sorts of little things, they’ve got guests and other fleems. And there’s a smile on everyone. So, now, correct me if I’m wrong! This looks like fun, this looks like fun, oh could it be I got my wish? What’s this?
It's awfully convenient that Quaritch detains the children with these slap bracelet handcuffs that can easily be cut through with a primitive blade. If only there was some form of metal handcuffs that could have been used... It's also awfully convenient that Quaritch happened to forget to bring those slap bracelet handcuffs when he first detained the children during the first act even though he was entering enemy territory.
I’m thinking Cameron was so caught up in producting directing and getting the technology for the film that the writing ended up being what suffered. I hope he realized that part way through and got some help on writing the ones after way of water
"Why does Jake use human technology" I mean the technology isn't evil. His avatar was created to research and negotiation on Pandora and his consciousness was transferred by Eywa. We still use the data that Nazis got by experiments on humans
I think I've lost some brain-cells listening to Doomer explain how a character making stupid and dumb decisions which are entirely in character is some kind of plot contrivance.
3 months in, and this film still irritates me. How can James Cameron be so disconnected from even the most infamous of modern military weaponry much less common sci-fi weaponry. These future humans don't have nukes or nerve gas or genetically engineered plagues or drones or even flamethrowers ON THE FUCKING JUNGLE PLANET!!! Even one of these would wipe the floor with the Navi. The Navi can't even steal and reuse these weapons against the humans because they all damage the environment in the crossfire and the Navi couldn't be bother to take their dicks out of their trees to win a war. (Not to mention the whole idea of the Navi managing to both steal and actually USE human weaponry is absurd, as just about any competent human could implement even the most rudimentary of anti-piracy measures that would render them useless to such a primitive and physically distinct civilization, but apparently a human civilization capable of traveling to different solar systems is too stupid to think of these basic things and now the Navi canonically have guns)
Mauler really phoned in his analysis.
Ayo
He should really dial up his effort.
Can you imagine talking around and then randomly hearing someone rant about Avatar 2?
@@TyrDrum Nice one 😂
Honestly, it kind of makes me mad that it took me longer than it should have to get the pun.
Upset MauLer with a bad mic is my favorite iteration.
Shotgun MauLer is a welcome surprise
So Doomer sat through 3 fucking hours of Avatar 2 but could only sit through 20 minutes of Top Gun: Maverick.
Maverick pushing past Mach 10 is entirely consistent with his character - he pushes the limits of himself and his aircraft. He breaks rules and disobeys orders, that's who he is as a person. Yes, it was stupid of him to push the aircraft even further when he has already going at an insane speed, but that's who he is!
It would go against his character if after reaching Mach 10 he just slowed down and then went and landed the Darkstar without incident.
Maverick was fucking hype (or maybe I was just drunk watching it)
I don't get why people don't like it.
@@Stop_Gooning I was stone sober and grinning like a kid on Christmas throughout the movie
@@Stop_Gooning It was okay but I was put off by some of the really blatant nostalgia-bait (I can't remember most of the examples but the one where goose's kid is playing piano in the bar is a good example of what I mean). I was never really a fan of the original movie and I think the film relies partly on watchers already being invested in the characters in advance. If you don't already like Maverick as a character the movie is nothing special at all IMO.
@@Wheningoubt I never watched the first one so all the references went over my head.
@@Wheningoubt The piano was both fanservice, and absolutely in-character and with purpose.
I feel like if both Doomer and Fringy remembered that Maverick actually did save the program, and that the ship only had to hit 10, not survive going over it or staying on it long, and that the general that viewed it said that Maverick delayed the inevitable, it would solve Doomer's entire issue with the introductory scene.
The program was successfully saved because the requirements of the inspection were met, which was admitted by the inspector. That is the reason why Maverick went further. He knew the program was safe, so now he could test the limits of the aircraft he was in. The plane would not be fit to fly again even if Maverick didnt go over mach 10 (the plane was literally melting. In the words of Bob Parr, it was coming down anyways), so it wasn't too large a waste of resources for the sake of thrill either.
Therefore, Doomer has NO leg to stand on here. A shame Fringy didn't remember
Yep. Not to mention people do things like this all the time, like after WW 2 when the first jets were being created, the 60's with the space race, hell all of racing. For things like that to progress you need people like Maverick whether you think it's dumb or not. As some who often can't understand why people do the dumb things they do or think(in my opinion), even I understood why Maverick' made that choice even though I thought it was dumb. Doomer must hate science, daredevil's, all sports(extreme or other wise), and all manner of things involving unnecessary risk and decisions.
That last part is sarcasm.
Yeah people even screw with the designated limit in military testing irl quite a bit.
If anything my problem with the film was Tom Cruise surviving an ejection that high and fast out of an exploding plane.
That tactical MauLer drop was pretty rad. Good shit.
I loved the shotgun dose of MauLer, never heard him be so shortman but it's good to know even in a time crunch the Longman _can_ deliver a straight 6 minutes of facts.
VFX team spent 13 years making the visuals as good as they could be.
The writers spent 13 minutes on the script.
I’m all for improving the technology used in film, so that we have less limitations on what stories we can tell, but that still means storytelling comes first.
You would really think that, as he waited for the tech to improve, he'd take advantage of this rare opportunity in Hollywood to, ya know, actually redraft his script.
@@TheMemeRepository Remember though, “NEVER ask James Cameron if he redrafts his scripts.
Questions like that from other writers are offensive” - Hitop Parker
I'm sure he redrafted his script, he just didn't know how to improve on perfection.
@@insensitive919 Sarcasm?
I think the quote from George Lucas is relevant here:
"You don't come up with technology and then figure out what to do with it. You come up with an artistic problem, then create the technology to solve it". At least in filmmaking, creativity in art or creativity in storytelling should be the drivers of technological innovation and development.
I watched the first 20 minutes and I wasn't even bored
throwback
Classic reference
@@peanutgallery4 could you explain to me the reference? I'm a little lost here
@@diazinamon2431 doomer said he walked out of top gun maverick 20 minutes in (the “and I wasn’t even board” part might be a reference to I hate everything saying he saw TLJ twice and wasn’t even bored)
@@VentA_7 You're spot on, though I think IHE said he saw it 3 times and wasn't ever bored.
TH-cam is weird. Despite my subs and views being heavily in the toxic brood camp, this is the first metal's forge ever recommended.
Doomer was upset at the first twenty minutes of Top Gun Maverick when Tom Cruise bent down and kissed his plane on the mouth.
^;.;^
“These whales can make you immortal.”
“Great! Let’s harvest them into extinction!”
Too many immortals is bad for the economy.
Limit the supply, hike the price.
They have cloning technology, so couldn’t they just clone just the brain juice. It’s like when poachers complain that there isn’t enough ivory anymore, when they killed all the elephants
@@arisorokin Are we over-looking the fact that they could *imprint your existing memories into the clone??*
[EDIT] I think we are looking over that fact; they basically already have immortality.
[DOUBLE EDIT] every 20 years or so you could just "Avatar" yourself into a younger clone and LITERALLY have an uninterrupted consciousness for multiple lifespans.
@@arisorokin Or just do what any modern-day capitalist would do, and just breed them like there's no fucking tomorrow. Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos would have solved death inside of two hours and the Navi would be peacefully jacking their brainstems into a better, free internet.
The problem is that filmwriters don't write villains to care about their own goals. They make them act evil to intentionally undermine themselves. You've found the most valuable resource there ever could exist in the galaxy and it's alive, so you can expand it near-infinitely. You should be building massive new environments to allow this whale population to propagate, perhaps even terraforming multiple additional worlds to introduce this species to just to fill all their others. Instead they go in with the sloppiest, messiest possible means of collecting whale juice that actually risks the collection of any of it, much less enough of it to be useful to yourself and the people you care about.
Yes, perhaps it takes decades or even longer to get your whale breeding operation working. But if just a bit of it makes you immortal, what's the rush? You get your initial samples and take your sweet time upscaling while prioritizing whale juice to the most valuable individuals who are at risk of dying.
That's not even getting into the fact that they can just clone or produce bodies in tanks on their own-they could probably just synthesize this stuff given the ridiculous technology level we see.
@@Stop_Gooning Am I missing something here with this equation:
1) We have seen Avatar bodies be created which require a 'pilot' in order to function. We have seen that they go limp when the connection is interrupted, such as when the power is pulled or the pilot in the machine dies.
2) We have seen the ability to take complete brain scans and permanently map them biologically onto the Avatar body. After this occurs there is no way to seperate the two again. However as we see which Quarich, despite the brain scan being merged with an Avatar body, Recom-Quarich is a wholely new entity.
3) We have the Whale Brain Juice that "stops the aging of cells", whatever is meant by that. I don't think that can even work given the way cell replication and replacement works. Since aging in humans is the result of degredation of the DNA source through repeat cell duplication and replication, I could see DNA Re-enrichment as being a functional way to extend lifespan, but I don't understand what is meant be "stops the aging of cells". Does it mean no more cell duplication, or unlimited cell duplication? both are nonsensical.
However that is beside the point. Where in this collection of details is the pathway to "avatar yourself into a younger clone and literally have an uninterrupted consciousness for multiple lifetimes". If you take a brain scan and create a new body, that body will be a new person, it won't be a continued consciousness. If you use the Whale juice, then you are maintaining your current body.
Best case is:
1) Make human body immortal with Whale Juice
2) Make Avatar Body to pilot remotely
3) When Avatar dies, make new Avatar, and repeat.
Spectacular cameo by The Longman.
Doomer has a problem. I thought it was an isolated incident in the New Years EFAP, but it extends further than that.
Prostate cancer
B-BUT TOM CRUISE KISSED TOP GUN ON THE LIPS ROMANTICALLY
Fringy around 1:33:00: "I feel like I've seen movies that did more in an hour and a half"
Yes. And a great example of that is Puss in Boots 2, everyone needs to see it
Regarding Kiri's father: I think Sigourney Weaver's avatar became pregnant when they tried the "Spirit Transfer Ritual". So Kiri is the child of a virgin and a god, because James Cameron thinks that Zack Snyder is too subtle with his Jesus references
Why is that an issue with the film?
It's worth noting that unobtainium is a hyper-efficient superconductor with virtually no waste, it was necessary to create faster than light ships. Being able to achieve that fixes all human problems for the foreseeable future. It's bigger than some humans versus Pandora, it's all humans and access to fertile planets vs Pandora
Man Doomer has some bizarre media takes
Meh, I didn’t watch top gun maverick either. Wasn’t a big fan of the original and I’m not a big fan of Tom cruise or Val Kilmer. I’ll watch it at some point if it goes on Netflix or something. But I’m not gonna say I know it’s bad, either. Just doesn’t interest me enough to wanna see it in theaters
@@EmptyAltruism I mean I didn’t watch it either but his reasoning was beyond lame. I’m glad Rags said something about the “for no reason” comments he kept saying even though Fringy explained the reasoning.
@@doomermedia I heard the first 20 seconds of your arguement and found no reason to listen further.
@@doomermedia “No reason.” False. There clearly was a reason; it was a character reason.
Maverick was being characterized as a reckless flyboy who pushes himself and his plane as far as physically possible; even to the detriment of those around him.
*cue line about Maverick ruining the multi-million dollar plane*
It’s a personal reason, and you can disagree with his choice to do so, but the reason exists, nonetheless.
You just didn’t like the reason, which is fine; it just means that you may not mesh well with Maverick as a character, or as a lead.
On a personal note, I never saw the original Top Gun, so I’m sure I missed a few references or context for certain scenes, but I loved the movie as a whole in spite of that because I can respect a character who makes choices I disagree with.
I’m right there with you in saying that him attempting to push further after hitting the 10G mark is a stupid choice, but I get that it is in line with his character, and feel that this opening scene is crucial in telling me what kind of man Maverick is. Especially since I didn’t see the original.
I feel like he has zero context for like any film now since he can't grasp why the best pilot in the world wouldn't try to see how much of a record he can get. Like basic human functions
I like how different mauler sounded as he was walking through the welsh-lands.
Metal's Forge #65: The Top Gun: Maverick Debate
@angel of death
I’ve seen your page. Thanks for the clips
@@doomermedia watch Mover Ruins Movies on the film. He’s a real, very experienced navy pilot and he tears Maverick a good one with its retardation and puts a nail in the “the planes are real, no CGI! and Tom Cruise really flies it!” nonsense. He didn’t change my opinion on the film, I watched it opening weekend and hated almost every minute for all the reasons this dude points out.
Totally agree with your film watching strategy too. When think I think fringy didn’t understand that while yes you can’t watch a film and decide if it’ll be a 6 or a 7 you can tell if it’ll be a 2ish or a 8ish. And I too find awful shit really unpleasant to watch even for 2 hrs
@@doomermedia
You can be confident about making bad arguments, but it doesn’t change the fact that they’re bad arguments
@@doomermedia You're made of cringe
I see Doomer continues to be a good guest, until he once again commits a big cringe. Never change
Edit: After the New Year's EFAP, I would like him to change
Nah it'd be nice if he changed
@@ludwigamadeushaydn706Be better.
@loolersauce
Not sure if trying to be funny or just cringe
@@EmptyAltruism
Perhaps...
Funny self-aware cringe?
I think he might be watching movies wrong.
i find it weird doomer agrees tom cruise is awesome for pushing the limits in the name of entertaining people, but cant believe tom's character will do something to push the limits for the sake of seeing how far he can go
I like him but sometimes I feel embarrassed of myself for it
13 years and they couldn't come up a story more interesting than Doomer had managed to in 2 hours.
I've only watched 20 minutes of this and I can tell it's good NO REASON to finish it.
I can see you are very based and reasonable
NOUGH REASON!?!?
NO GOOD REASON
@@EmptyAltruism If situation calls for based and reasonable.
@@wilius1428 I’d say it calls for based and reasonable, yeah
"We have EFAP in Germany, Ah."
- German Man
💀🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@27:01 The Japanese would turn those Pandora whales into sashimi, so the animal wouldn't go to waste.
The japanese would make the guys from this movie look like saints lol dolphin hunts and whale hunts
@@JOBXR Apparently those things are delicious!
I'd club a whale to death to try some of that scrumptious blubber or whatever part you eat.
@@JOBXR Faroese: Laughs in grindadráp
Doomer gave me an eye-twitch...
FOR NOUGH REASON
Doomer with a horrendous Top Gun take.
Can't believe that Metal missed the chance to call it Tree-mail. The joke was right there 🤣
Thank you. I said it out loud. Rags likes puns and he missed it too. Maybe they’re having drinks or something? Anyways, thanks for saying what I was thinking…
Imo I think one of the biggest issues is how fast they made Jakes integration, especially considering how cameron was wanting to make it a franchise. If avatar was one movie, him doing the full zero to hero makes sense, but with 2+ it doesn't. Comparing to lotr where a character like Sam starts off respectable but smaller, and you watch him progress until he's fighting shelob and sneaking into forts to save his friend. In avatar everything goes too fast, Jake has no lasting problems as being an avatar, he nearly instantly gets the girl and a family, and each movie now has been a glorified fight of the week. If he cares enough about the world to put actual billions into it the first film at least should have been dedicated solely to Jake coming to terms with the avatar system, the Navi, the existential crisis plotline of his human body dying, learning how to survive with primitive medicine and learning skills, his relationship with neytiri being slower, and not including the additional human generic bad guy elements at all until a later film. Avatar as a franchise is currently basically a tech demo first, political propaganda second, and story third. There's tons of stuff they could do with alien creatures, medicines, history, and the heroes journey, but instead he tries to be cool, succeeds, and then from that point on the plot is just cowboys v indians, and the cowboys don't know how to use guns.
2:34:20 - I swear, Doomer acts like a cartoon version of a media contrarian. Those Top Gun takes kinda short-circuited my brain.
The fact that the humans are portrayed as comically evil AGAIN, has killed any interest in this movie for me
I could see the kids learning dive-breathing before the parents do. It's like kids overseas learning a language easily where their parents who are used to one language really struggle with the new skill. At least for Neytiri it makes sense because she's hardcore tree-person and doesn't like the new shit, while Sully has already been around the "relearn everything" rodeo and the kids are over-open about everything. I can see what they were going for there.
Quartch surviving that long with no brain damage is fucked though.
He was a marine, what brain?
@@johnratfink7343 I was more talking about Neytiri struggling. Jake's competence is whatever the plot needs it to be. Deadass forgot he was a marine, he doesn't act like it.
31:43 "A reaction drive's efficiency as a weapon is in direct proportion to its efficiency as a drive."
The Kzinti lesson.
Doomer really did spend almost an hour arguing that "I don't need to watch the whole movie, my ignorance is just as valuable as your knowledge."
It’s ok he doesn’t care for cutscenes in video games. 😜
Doomer, at the start of Top Gun 2, Maverick wasn't flying for the Fighter Weapons School (Top Gun), we was flying for a different project called the Darkstar.
He gets called back to Top Gun immediately after. So you're just straight up wrong.
You're factually incorrect. Just say ''I didn't like the film after the first 20 minutes, and so I left. No further comment''.
More people should just say that they don't like things without spending 2 hours trying to justify _why_ they don't like it.
@@doomermedia I was thinking at the end of the film "you guys probably shouldn't be celebrating on that flight deck, you likely just started a war and your within flying distance of said countries coast, thousands are now going to die because of what you did". Felt like that was the start of another potential film.
Fuck, I'm old.
I like doomer but sometimes I feel like his brain decides "ITS TIME TO GET ULTRA -AUTISTIC", no offence to people with that disability, I know he's acting much worse than most of you
@@johnmcternan4157 the weapons program they blew up was illegal. It’s not like the country they attacked didn’t know who attacked them, they just can’t do anything about it because doing so would acknowledge why they were attacked in the first place
Anybody else notice how Doomer has a nasty tendency to repeat the same argument over and over again with increasing exasperation?
I like you man, but you can't keep getting caught in loops like this.
Doomer doesn't know what he is talking about, the yt algorithm is purposefully broken, it actively pushes people away from channels lile these. If I'm watching any two channels among nerdrotic, drinker, efap, voxis media, weekend, thorias, robot head etc., it should be recommending me others in the same vein, especially after I finish watching a jokey review for a film that they all have covered. The only channels it does recommend occasionally is just drinker and nerdrotic amongst a sea of cringe consoomer essayists that aren't anything like the channels that I watch, and they are often much smaller channels than the ones mentioned, and on those rare occasions where I clicked on a new channel and ended up downvoting the video, it never links me back to drinker and nerdrotic.
I remember back when I discovered Sargon through a youtube recommend from an angry joe video where he covered drama, it did used to offer those kinds if counterpoints to people, but now they only go one way.
meanwhile mine only shows the top 2 youtubers I watched that week. Unironically YT gives me 90% of the same stuff I already watched. As for new or related creators, I think the ratio is around 0.5%.
The stream is only a few minutes longer than the film, How could you short man us? I feel Betrayed
So that's their plan... eventually they will outlong the long.
I had to take THREE pee breaks during the movie.
*_THREE_*
@@Stop_Gooning I only had to take one but it was mostly cause I was alone with my little brother and I didn't want to leave him alone
@@kianrodriguez4455 The theater I watched it at served beer and I was _drinking..._ which is to say, I had to pee a lot.
@@kianrodriguez4455 If I was James Cameron I'd have released a 90 minute sci-fi action blockbuster to theaters and supplemented it with a speculative-biology series on streaming.... But hey, that's just me.
There's a sci-fi speculative-biology series on TH-cam I really like called "Beware the Qu"
14:55 IIRC. Aquaman's power over fish in the comics extends to all living creatures in some iterations. There's a comic where he ha an interview with someone explaining he doesn't talk to fish he overrides the decision making part of their brain with whatever his weird will powers are. And he mentions he can do the same to the man interviewing him.
That's just typical comic book powercreep bullshit. We have a lame character who's basically just a meme at this point, let's give them a ridiculous power boost and claim they've just been holding it back this whole time.
In defense of _Once Upon a Time ... in Hollywood,_ I think the non-sequitur nature of the ending is a commentary on how random and unforseen the actual Tate tragedy was. To them, it was just a normal week in their lives with regular Hollywood worries to deal with, and then some hippies pull up with some devil shit out of nowhere.
Tarantino makes it the same here, except, what if they walked into _a different_ house?
I see Doomer's criticism but I quite like the ending because it somehow feels more respectful to the Tates; rather than puffing up the Mansons into some big looming threat that's foreshadowed and gets into the characters heads rent-free in the months leading up to the tragedy, instead he decided to do none of that and just have them actually be random hippies who have nothing to do with the plot.
In terms of fiction this direction hurts it; but as a tribute it's the right call and it's to Tarantino's credit that he decided to take that L.
Imagine how based it would be if someone replaced the bugs in Starship Troopers with the Na'vi, and the entire movie just played out with no other changes. XD
I find the idea of an Intelligent smurf to be offensive!
*sees cowering elder* its afraid!
*cheers erupt*
@Bill Clinton Enjoyer Not really what I would call subtext. Rather more than a bit too obvious for that.
But anyway - who said anything about better or worse? The only thing I care about is that the only good smurf is a dead smurf! >:D
1:02:52 MauLer's psychopathic guest appearance.
I was floored when Rags of all people made a Cowboy Bebop reference
when
Early in the stream, iirc when they're talking about the title "Way of Water". He references Spike telling a random guy about the way of water (Bruce Lee's way of water) and how it had meaning, while in Avatar it's rather empty.
Doomers top gun argument is basically saying a movie about climbing mount everest is stupid because climbing mount everest is stupid.
i honestly went back to hear Maulers phone in... i forgot doomer was here; i listened to it after realizing.
holy fuck... its so baaaad.
@@ShishouDzukiZaManako what was the time stamp again for both
@@secondsonofliberty2321
Mauler was 1:03:15
Top Gun was 2:32:18
unless i mistyped shit.
@@ShishouDzukiZaManako thanks
@@secondsonofliberty2321 np
We have EFAP at home :)
29:08 wait ... Hold on. Humanity has conquered interstellar travel and somehow earth is out of resources? You're telling me that Pandora is literally the only planet they've found that supports life? And even then, it's deadly to humans
Pandora is in the Alpha Centauri system. Humans haven't conquered interstellar travel, they're only visiting the planet next door.
It's mentioned in an offhand comment by Jake in the first movie that they killed their mother (earth). So take that however you want
They need unobtaniun for use in effective interstellar ships. Earth is probaably just considered a dump. It’s survivable but most don’t think highly of it. Humans are coming to pandora for the metal to make it way easier to conquer the rest of the stars
@Bill Clinton Enjoyer I was drawing a deliberate distinction: that achieving the bare minimum to qualify as interstellar travel does not mean you have "conquered" interstellar travel. The galaxy is a big place, and the vast majority of it might be beyond the reach of a civilisation whose proven range is only a 10 light year round drip.
I legitimately loved when Rags's"ss's started to growl and bork at Doomer for saying "FOR NOUGH RAISIN" too many times.
If Doomer wants to swim in the Big Boy Pool of Media Analysis, he's gonna have to drop the CinemaSins-style exaggerations and hyperbole. Rags is a harsh sensei, but Doomer-san will surely learn well.
Well, that raises an important question, doesn't it?
If Doomer bends to Rags's'ss's's'sssss will, that won't be very Alpha of Doomer, will it?
If Doomer wishes to remain independent and not submissive to Ragsssssssssssssssssssss - then he should stay the course, yes?
@@TheMaleRei He must choose. Rag's's'"s";s;s-s=s=s[s]s]\s may be teaching him valuable lessons, and maybe in order to become Sigma-Tier Reviewer Doomer, he must, for now, be as the beta.
@@Liberty_or_Ded
I always thought that Sigmas were born rather than submissioned into existence.
Perhaps I have it wrong.
@@TheMaleRei Sigmas are created, never born.
@@Liberty_or_Ded
Sigmas are created through... Submission?
Something that really pissed me off with them just making humans evil is when they were hunting the whale and the baby whale. They make a note like "we are going after this one because it is slow and won't leave it baby," but like here on earth today. We have basic hunting rules like if there is an animal with a baby too young to survive on its own, don't hunt it because then u won't have that baby to grow and have kids. Like u are killing 2 generations while only getting the reward for one. So it just to me, in the movies came across like oh people are super evil. Really annoying because they could have done any whale that didn't have kids, but then it wouldn't be as sad.
I'd like to see Mauler and Critical Drinker debate doomer on Top Gun. Surprised rags didn't dig into him for how brain dead his take was
2:32:19 start of Doomers top gun discussion
"For NOUGH REASON!" - thanks for inviting cinema venom to discuss Top gun, I guess.
“The way of water has no beginning and no end…” it certainly felt like it would never end.
Doomer coming at movies like Tai Lopez to books...
Honest Fringy showing how to engage with movies and characters in them.
In terms of a James Camron film having staying power in the theaters, Titanic seems like a massive outlier. From what I've heard, theaters were given two versions of the movie: one that had a censored drawing scene, and one where it was uncensored. The theaters didn't make it explicit which version they were showing, so it made a lot of people go see the movie more than once. Not to mention that the industry has changed drastically since the 90s with the introduction of streaming and the increased prices of going to the movies in the first place
Another thing is people will feel obligated to watch it in IMAX3D or else they'll just wait for it on streaming.
This is also his first release in the post Disney+ era..... meaning Avatar 2 will be rushed to streaming as soon as possible in a desperate attempt to save that clusterfuck, because guess who owns distribution rights.....
Imagine releasing your movies like they are pokemon games. Avatar 3 blue version vs Avatar 3 green version, with different actors and settings, but the exact same plot.
That's a lot of trouble to see a little second-hand Winslet boob.
Also, Titanic, if I recall correctly, was seen as a safe "Date Movie".
Where women could swoon over how *romantic* the "true love" story was - and men endured it while waiting for the ship to sink and eventually hoping to get laid after the women got tingles from the film and needed an outlet.
Quaritch's consciousness being transferred into an avatar body could've set up something similar to what they did in SOMA. Damn that could be so interesting, but they do nothing with it.
yeah it's a shame that this is the last film they're doing if only they were going to explore the idea of him being a weird amalgam personality in future films oh wait
After hearing about the mermaids vs tree people discussion I'm very annoyed that Metal didn't save this episode until he had more visual to pull from the movie. I wanted to see the fuckable alien babes.
Go see the movie then.
What happened then? In the Forge they say
My respect for Fringy grew three sizes that day
MERRY CRIMBO YALL!!!!
(Halloween is better though)
Rags, opening with the least positive opinion of the group: “Oh boy. Umm. So... Avatar 2. I don’t just think this movie is very bad, I kind of hate it.”
Rags, 30 mins later: “One of the reasons I absolutely despise this film is...”
My hero.
Remember, the opportunity cost for avatar's budget is not only money, but also time. This budget has been locked up in this project for a good while (hard to say exactly how long, as it probably got money in staggered waves???). This normally doesn't come into play with movies as much, as they tend to get made in a couple years at most, but with the 10+ years avatar 2 had, the interest starts to compound in a more standard investment it most definitely has been compared to. Cameron mentioning this movie is a really bad business case make me believe he's seen projections of this type, and it's also the only reasonable way the 2 billion expectation can be justified.
what
Most of the money presumably went in over a very short period of time to finalize the visual effects, it's not like the writers and the actors were gonna break the budget while they got to that point.
No. 3 will be about volcanic Na'vi --
The Day of Hotter: Avatar Boogaloo
Petition to rename Way of the Water to "Avatar 2: Whale Juice Boogaloo"
I'd like to take a moment and thank Samael527 for inadvertently introducing me to a neat 40k fanfiction. And here I thought I had read all the good ones.
Name?
@@Author_Paluthor mate this was six months ago, I've completely forgotten by now lol. Sorry.
I hope I wasn't the only one that was happy to see humanity return to pandora.
I’m new to the Metal’s Forge, and I like it. The logo kind of makes me think of the background stages to the famous DOOM wad Sunlust.
Its crazy to see a man who didnt hesitate to genocide Navi have an absolute tism about executing one hostage like whaaaaatttt
Rag's'sss, for socks I recommend Darn Tough. Solid wool socks, ridiculously comfortable and warm. And they're guaranteed for life.
Thou shalt not besmirch the name of Cowboys & Aliens, *Doomer of the Politics*
Silco and Jinx kissed...
You shut your damn mouth!!!
Like 90% sure of it
Stop it.
No they didn't
Fun panel.
Doomermatic Venom
3:06:30 Oof. What Doomer says here is maybe the most damning thing of all.
In first movie when they shoot arrows from the ground to helicopters, the arrow flies against gravity, so it loses velocity and bounces off the glass (but scratches it). In the final battle Neytiri flies on her ikran downwards on a helicopter and shoots an arrow in the process, so the arrow flies towards gravity, which accelerates it, plus additional speed from diving ikran. So yes, this time it pierces the glass.
High Ground principle
@@samwallaceart288 Quaritch: You underestimate my glass!
If the arrows have so little power behind them that gravity fucks them over in such (relatively) short distances, then the helicopters should be durable enough to deflect the arrows regardless.
@@Ieam0309 It scratched the glass the first time, so double gravity acceleration makes enough difference.
@@Сайтамен A pocket knife can scratch a window. Hell, a fork can. Going through it is a whole other deal.
Mauler sounds as though he looks like GoW:Ragnarök Thor.
I saw an image of him on stream once; he's on the heavy side yeah
He's a big lad irl, very tall and a bit overweight
They always ask about emotionally complex Rancor... but never about C4 Rancor 😔
My attention is on the 2nd son that almost kill either himself or his siblings for like 3 times, then finally he got his older brother killed. I hate him.
They both went to save the whale, then one was captured and other went to save him and got shot, while the first one tried his best to not let him die, but sure, it's all his fault...
Ok I wanna know what was Doomer going to say about Stalker. Speak, otterman.
Here's some Sitch and Adam Show lore for you Doomer is a stote, which is the animal in his pfp.
@@buttermink2153 stoat
BREAKING: The sequel to the premier Style over Substance Show was a Style over Substance Show.
also please stop inviting Doomer to things he makes my brain twitch
I like Metal's tismy narration style for the retelling.
Great Forge Multal, can't wait to for the next forge.
Took me a while to realize Doomer is in the group.
Doomer continues being terrible in a debate. He's fun in the conversation but absolutely cannot argue a point to save his life then gets way too emotionally invested in defending his point.
Doomer being doomer
Great movie for normies and kids.
Anyone that actually appreciates an objectively good movie will consider this forgettable in less than 2h.
Avatar 2 feels like it was written and directed by Robert Rodrigez on a bad day.
Avatar 1: save the trees
Avatar 2: save the seas
All of you missed the most important and biggest fucking issue and I'm kinda surprised. They retconned the entire fucking planet.
I've only seen this movie once but I could give you a huge list of references for this but I stick to the most prominent one.
Do you remember why they brought back general man as a cat person? It was so he could "blend in" and walk around in molested by the wild life! What?! Fucking excuse me?! Nah fuck that, remember how they show that as a new fact of the world? Remember the tiny dog aliens? Sort of like jackals? Well when general man and his team (in full gear) are walking through the jungle a pack of them show up, growl, then leave and the film narrates that he successfully blened in....
WHAT
You may not have seen the first movie in awhile but you might have forgotten that one of the ways they show Pandora is dangerous is by HAVING A PACK OF THEM ATTACK JAKE. They just fucking forgot that the animal they showed to demonstrate the danger of the planet was an animal. Now it's just a white blood cell or some shit.
I'm a monster designer. It's my passion and some of the aliens from this series are some of my favorite of all time but this movie fucking destroyed them. It literally changed their anatomy to fit this new bullshit retcon! I've been working on a script for a video and just talking about ths monster designs has gotten me to TWO FUCKING HOURS already! They fucking murdered the only saving grace of this world
I'm also baffled the artificial Na'vi can connect through their weird little neural-tail system yet they can't make four fingered Na'vi which is apparently the only thing that makes the natives aware their outsider 'demons.'
@@silenceyouidiot I like how we just really quickly gloss over the fact that 1) the space aliens have DNA just like life on Earth 2) human DNA is successfully spliced into the lab grown space aliens 3) the artificial space aliens grow multiple new bones and muscles (the extra finger) because "human DNA"
Dawg, we have sci-fi brain-magic. I'm pretty sure we could gene-edit that finger away.
2:37:00 Doomer with his terrible hot takes. I gotta say, it does make the conversation entertaining.
He's "literally" walked out or turned off a movie after only about 20 minutes thousands of times. Being plural, that's 2,000 minimum. He didn't specify if it was a different movie each time, but that seems to be the implication. So, he's literally only watched the first 20 minutes of at least 2,000 movies. What a waste of 28 24-hour days.
2:41:20 He doesn't watch anything he expects to be bad? Bruh... you've literally been disappointed by the first 20 minutes of thousands of movies. You should probably start lowering your expectations at this point. Or just use literally and figuratively correctly.
2:46:30 So, let me get this straight... Doomer doesn't understand why a TEST pilot would want to push something to the limits to TEST what those limits are? Come on, man.
You mean people went up in a space shuttle and it exploded? They were idiots! Why would you even try to do something extraordinary?! Don't go to the moon. There's no air there! What are they, idiots?!
Rags: I don't believe that hunting whales for the immortality juice is evil.
Also Rags: I don't believe that humans are so evil they will just come to this planet and start hunting whales.
Which is it?
the humans were doing a tad more than that
Why not both?
After learning about the immortality it makes sense to hunt them nut the humans would have to return and randomly start hunting whales to find out about it.
After listening to it myself, his problem mainly seems to stem from the way they hunt. In other words, hunting whales for brain juice is fine. Immediately hunting them with missile pods to the point of extinction is stupid.
@@HolyApplebutter Nobody said they were hunted to the point of extinction.
@@joshuabuckle1216 They study everything they can for colonisation. Earth whales are useful for a lot of stuff, so seems logical they would get one whale for autopsy.
If I wanna watch a 3 hour James Cameron film about aliens underwater, I’d rather watch a far better movie like The Abyss.
2:55:30 @Hyperbolic Ninja - Nutsa was absolutely the best new guest. Big fan. This Doomer guy is mainly good for the tism brain melts.
I personally think Madvocate is better, but I guess he's not new anymore. His videos are 10/10
Now to watch the stream from the beginning
What’s this in here? They’ve got a little podcast,
How queer! And who would ever think? And why?
They’re covering all sorts of little things, they’ve got guests and other fleems.
And there’s a smile on everyone. So, now, correct me if I’m wrong!
This looks like fun, this looks like fun, oh could it be I got my wish? What’s this?
Lol at Doomer "I walked out of Top Gun Maverick in the first 20 minutes, it was boring" great opinion dude
Well, it's Doomer.
Not interested in avatar but can someone give me a time stamp for when they talk about top gun? That I’m interested in
It's awfully convenient that Quaritch detains the children with these slap bracelet handcuffs that can easily be cut through with a primitive blade. If only there was some form of metal handcuffs that could have been used...
It's also awfully convenient that Quaritch happened to forget to bring those slap bracelet handcuffs when he first detained the children during the first act even though he was entering enemy territory.
Producer - "Why?"
Writer - "So the movie can happen!"
Producer - "Oh."
With thanks to "Pitch Meeting".
I’m thinking Cameron was so caught up in producting directing and getting the technology for the film that the writing ended up being what suffered. I hope he realized that part way through and got some help on writing the ones after way of water
"Why does Jake use human technology" I mean the technology isn't evil. His avatar was created to research and negotiation on Pandora and his consciousness was transferred by Eywa. We still use the data that Nazis got by experiments on humans
I think they did it okay the way that they did it.
I think I've lost some brain-cells listening to Doomer explain how a character making stupid and dumb decisions which are entirely in character is some kind of plot contrivance.
I love the Flim. I seen it five times
Very good stream.
3 months in, and this film still irritates me. How can James Cameron be so disconnected from even the most infamous of modern military weaponry much less common sci-fi weaponry. These future humans don't have nukes or nerve gas or genetically engineered plagues or drones or even flamethrowers ON THE FUCKING JUNGLE PLANET!!!
Even one of these would wipe the floor with the Navi. The Navi can't even steal and reuse these weapons against the humans because they all damage the environment in the crossfire and the Navi couldn't be bother to take their dicks out of their trees to win a war. (Not to mention the whole idea of the Navi managing to both steal and actually USE human weaponry is absurd, as just about any competent human could implement even the most rudimentary of anti-piracy measures that would render them useless to such a primitive and physically distinct civilization, but apparently a human civilization capable of traveling to different solar systems is too stupid to think of these basic things and now the Navi canonically have guns)
"Comments are subjective."
-Bilbo Baggins