ANGER MANAGEMENT - Beethoven "Pathetique" sonata Op. 13 mvt 1 - Analysis
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2024
- Beethoven took the sonata form from Mozart and Haydn and developed it in a revolutionary way, turning his sonatas into epic tales. The "Pathétiqe", Op. 13, is a hallmark in the piano repertoire (Pathétiqe referring to "emotional" rather than the "pathetic") - in this video Henrik Kilhamn goes through the first movement section by section and explains how they fit in the larger scheme of things.
0:00 Introduction
1:57 Analysis
Beethoven's "Pathetique" sonata series:
▶ Mvt 2: • LONG LEGATO LINES - Be...
▶ Mvt 3: • ELECTRIC CHARGE - Beet...
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Ludwig van Beethoven: Piano sonata no. 8 in C minor "Pathétique", Op. 13. Movement 1: Grave - Allegro di molto e con brio
📄 Score: Peters edition, ca 1910, editor: Louis Köhler, imslp.org.
Emoji artwork provided by JoyPixels, joypixels.com. - เพลง
Imagine being alive at the time this was released by Beethoven, then from hearing it performed, realizing you've just heard a timeless classic that will be discussed and analysed for more than 200 years. Gives me chills just thinking about it.
Yes, imagine getting 4.9 million TH-cam views after being dead for almost 200 years!
Tbh when Beethoven was alive they listened to a composer only during their life time period. After one died, they passed to another composer.
This sonata was performed only in private. Not in public. Beethoven Sonatas were planned as a private kind of experiments. He was able to push boundaries with his Sonatas. Unlike symphonies which were intended for public perfomance since the beginning.
@@chmendez literally does not change my comment. but thanks for the insight
@@chmendez imagine u were Beethoven’s friend back then and he played you all of his sonatas (at least the ones he could)…must’ve been awesome
"Here, Beethoven invents the disco." is still one of my if not my all time favourite quote of yours. I really enjoy your videos, not just as an amateur organist with an above average interest in music theory but also as just a regular guy. Keep up the good work. :)
that line truly stands out! super humorous too!
I actually laughed at 18:05 when you posted the disco ball on the score. Thank you for taking the time to guide us through the sonata form.
The title made me so laugh, because the theme is exactly to manage our anger feeling in this furious piece. Good points, good video.Thank you for making this video indeed.I love it.
An old-timer here! Just subscribed, as I find your analyses very good. I had the honour of being taught by (Sir) Gerald Moore and Robert Bouffler, but also had a year with John Vallier. Mr. Vallier's aunt was Mathilde Verne, allegedly Clara Schumann's "favourite pupil". Although I used to play regularly, severe illness intervened, and I am no longer able to physically manage much these days. It is immensely frustrating, but your analyses have encouraged me to start practising again - gentle Hanon and Dohnanyi, with a smattering of Grieg and less taxing Chopin, for a start, with a couple of Beethoven Bagatelles thrown in for variety. Also re-learning the Scriabin LH Prelude and Nocturne (Op.9) in an effort to encourage use of my LH. Thank you for your insights and the incentive to try to 'start over'. Keep up with your valuable work!
this is the best channel on youtube PERIOD
no seriously, i love you
This really helps with my study of this piece, thank you. Love the use of the emoji😀
Thank you Mara, I'm glad it's helpful! :)
Lol me too
Thank you for your kindness helping others to understand the beauty of Beethoven Pathetic. and wonderful. performance.
Thank you! :)
Truly Brilliant !!! Emoji's & Metaphors after my own heart, soul & musicality ! Thank you soooo much !!! 🥰
Absolutely love this. 'Disco theme' has transformed the way I think about this piece!! 😁
When I hear works such as this and others by Beethoven as well as works by Chopin, Liszt and even the works by the much later composer, Rachmaninoff, I start to wonder if they ever thought that their music would not only be timeless but remembered and played by the greatest musicians of each generation hence. And why is it that music today-all music written in the ‘non-classical’ forms such as blues, rock and roll, R&B, scat, rap, easy listening, etc.-will only be remembered for as long as one’s lifetime and certainly not for 200+ years. One thing is certain: these and other composers of the ‘classical-style’ music including opera will last another 200+ years. That’s because the music was written by genius minds. I am still in awe of Beethoven and how he could write his 9th Symphony and be completely deaf. That’s my definition of true musical genius.
Henrik’s analyses of these composers’ music is absolutely fantastic. Had I been given this tool when I was studying piano years and years ago, I would have gone further as a pianist in the same number of years as I studied piano before switching to the pipe organ. These analyses and performances are brilliantly laid out and played. All should support him and his TH-cam channel as generously as possible. Henrik, thanks for these weekly videos. They are enlightening, inspiring, and just downright entertaining. I have stopped reading, watching DVDs and all other activity in lieu of watching your works. Don’t stop, whatever you do. Each analysis video and performance are as valuable as a Graff Diamond. Just a whole lot cheaper. Thank you.
Thanks for your kind words Richard! :)
Beethoven is genius, you won’t feel the joy of this music till you play it yourself! Such a relief.
Explaining everything and teaching much more than a actual teacher….. how wonderful if my daughter could take lessons from you……😢
While seeking inspiration the first video I watched from TH-cam was your performance of Fantasie Impromptu. After learning and memorizing it I am ready to tackle another favourite piece of music ever. It is delightful to see your relax flying fingers on the ivory with analysis! Thank you so much!!
You play it with such an ease😭 Thank you for making this video 😊
My favorite of Beethoven. I loved the video, I had to see it again. Lud was a wonderful pianist, Man of strong personality and warm heart. ♥️💗♥️💗♥️😻
Great! What a fantastic start to a piece..
Great lesson! Love the face icons to illustrate the emotions! Thanx!
Trying to slowwwlly get to grips with the Pathetique. There's so much more to look forward to. Thank you for your wonderful analysis. Really helpful! 😁
Brilliant!
Great performance and insightful analysis. Thanks a ton for this amazing lesson!
I'm glad you liked it!
I love that you have Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows amongst your eclectic book collection! Great analysis, great channel!
Absolute leg, cheers for making this video
Thank you so much for this very insightful analysis. This movement is my most favourite piano piece of all time & I'm glad you have done justice to it, especially for those of us who don't play piano. Once again, thank you so much: i I found your commentary almost as thrilling as the music itself. Cheers!
Thanks, I'm happy you liked it! :)
wonderful performance, educational as well as enjoyable
Thank you for the lesson!
I started to study this piece few weeks ago. It is nice to have this analysis so that I can understand more about the structure. I hope that I can manage to play this whole movement soon. Love it. Thanks 🥰🥰🥰
Thanks Bang. Good luck with it!
@@SonataSecrets I have just joined your Patreon. Hope that you can continue with your helpful analysis for our piano lovers. Thanks Henrik :)
Thanks Bang, you're very welcome as a Patreon! I have no plans to stop yet :)
I've always been curious why the first opening chord is "only" forte and not fortissimo. I always play it fortissimo and give it time to resound and "boom", because to me, it is supposed to be earth-shattering and the foundation on which the entire piece is built.
I will call this 𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗔𝗻𝗴𝗲𝗿 𝗠𝗮𝗻𝗮𝗴𝗲𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗦𝗼𝗻𝗮𝘁𝗮 from now on. 😊 Great analysis of this impressive piece! Thanks
hehe
Thank you! I have been waiting for months for you to analyze this sonata. It is my favorite out of all the Beethoven sonatas and the one that I tried orchestrating a year or two back. I might try orchestrating it again, now that I know more about orchestration. And I think Mozart's 40th symphony is his most Beethovenian piece overall, being very similar and possibly an inspiration for Beethoven's Fifth.
I remember! It's a lot of work to do the big pieces like this so that's why it has taken a while.
Yes, basically all Mozart works in minor have a more dramatic character han those in major. 40th, 25th symphony, Requiem, PC 20, D and C minor piano fantasies...
@@SonataSecrets Yeah, Mozart in minor has like this kind of character to it:
No! Oh come on, where is it? *sigh* I guess I will have to start over. Wait, what's going on? Oh no, it can't be. Oh no. Oh no. NO! *sigh* - Powerfully angry and melancholic
Whereas Mozart in major has this kind of character to it:
I'm dancing around and the birds are singing to me. Woah, oof! I fell down. Everybody's laughing at me. I'm back up again as though nothing happened and I continue my dance. - Happy and humorous, as though nothing, not pain, not being lost, nothing could ruin a perfect day.
hehe yeah!
Thank you! Would be great to see the second movement as well.
Yes, 2nd movement is coming very soon!
@@SonataSecrets Yeey! :D
There's about 5 diminished chords in the 1st 3 measures. Very unusual for Beethoven. He's creating a mysterious atmosphere here...
That was excellent
Love your analysis so much, super clear and well explain and fantastic played too!
Could you include a few harmonical analysis here and there please, I mean, how are these moves are made in the piece, from one given key to another, the chords used, etc ?
Always wondered how Beethoven created that "amabiance" caracteristics of his tune, a lot to do with chords, but I am not expert enough to understand the changes here.
I am dreaming of classical scores with chords name written above (kind of a realbook for classic pieces) ! :)
GReat job anyway, super useful, thanks !
Nice video! May I ask u that did u use the sustain pedal in some part of this piece?
Thanks!
SOOOOOOO good!
So great peace!
Thanks for mentioning the dispute about the repeat. I've had some serious arguments about it. To me, the repeat back to the introduction is the logical reading. In every other case in the movement, the final chords after the second theme lead back to the slow tempo. If Beethoven omitted the repeat because he wanted it to go back to the slow-tempo introduction, it makes sense that he meant it.
Charles Rosen writes in "Beethoven's Piano Sonatas - A Short Companion" (2002), p. 142:
"It has been argued that the repeat of the exposition of the first movement should include the Grave introduction, and Rudolf Serkin used to perform it so. We cannot settle the matter by consulting the manuscript, which has been lost. In the first edition, the opening of the Allegro di molto e con brio certainly is preceded by a bar line with dots, and this normally directs a repeat: oddly enough we do not find the standard two dots, but four. Is that significant? It makes musical sense to begin the repeat at either the beginning of the Allegro or at the Grave - at least it does not make musical nonsense to begin at the later point as it does with the Sonata in B flat minor of Chopin. If we judge by the resemblance of the form to the Sonata in C minor, op. 111, starting the repeat from the Allegro would be the more likely choice."
So there are arguments for both sides :)
@@SonataSecrets I personally repeat at the introduction to emphasize the painful slowness of the Grave(Which I play at quarter note = 30 BPM to further emphasize that painful slowness). The edition I have has the repeat at the Allegro, but I just ignore that repeat and repeat at the introduction anyway. I just feel that there is so much obvious and outright tension in the Allegro that it needs the repeat at the introduction to release some of that tension, whereas if it were to repeat at the Allegro, that tension would just keep building and building until it finally releases at the start of the development.
If you repeat the introduction, then it loses its status as an introduction and just becomes lumped in as part of the main theme, which I think is wrong.
Now let’s look at things from the perspective of the listener, especially a listener who is not musically inclined. That person may be able to appreciate the introduction, but let’s be honest, it’s slow and takes time to get to the allegro section. But by that point, the listener is definitely engaged, it’s exciting and contrasting to that introduction. You repeat that introduction and you’ve lost the interest of the audience.
I’ve performed this both ways and let me tell you outright, if you repeat that introduction, your audience gets bored and wants to go on their phone. It’s sad but true.
My teacher mentioned that Beethoven used the anticlimax a lot that gives a lot of his music an unexpected feeling, which makes it feel like smouldering fire, gathering momentum but not exploding, but giving the feeling that an explosion will come, but take away the air suddenly.
Almost like passive aggression.
I love how auto-generated captions pronounce 'Sonata' as 'Cynara'.
Thank you very much for your analysis. Very helpful. Can you please do a lesson on tempest too? At least the 3rd movement.
Having 12 Rules for Life on your shelf next to those other books is like having the sheet music for Break Stuff by Limp Bizkit next to a copy of the Well-Tempered Clavier. Great video though!
Any tips to keep the left hand tremolo relaxed and less tiring when playing at speed? And also, how much should I use the pedal in the Grave section?
Nice
2:53 jajajaja, great video by the way
5:35 Scale going upwards but also alternating broken chords of tonic and dominant, and he's already switched to F minor key, not C minor. He goes back to C minor on the 5th bar.
谢谢！
7:14 You forgot to mention that he modulates to E flat minor for the 2nd theme. One would expect a change to the relative major key, in this case E flat major, like in the 1st movement of the 5th symphony, but not E flat minor.
Last piece I learned with my old piano teacher. ❤
I thought the second subject should be in either the dominant minor or the relative major? I don't understand why he's saying the bit where it's in Ab major is the second subject, someone please explain.
I see you rockin’ that Maps of Meaning by J. Peterson 👌🏻 did you get a chance to read it?
th-cam.com/video/qyzvfc3mtWA/w-d-xo.html ;)
How to arrange the pedal in the first opening? I am really no more idea
Bascially change whenever the harmony change. I change even on the 32nd notes in the first bars, then one pedal for the scale, then on 8th notes when it's legato and the harmony starts to change on 8th notes.
@@SonataSecrets Thanks
How do u keep ur hand and wrist lose in the allegro do molto con brio section 😭
I start with practicing the hands separately and think about finding good positions without unecessary tension. But after that it's a kind of stamina issue. Then I think practicing without overloading the hands for a long period of time (weeks, months) is the way to build that.
Great analysis, but you need to practice your chromatic scale! Another thing is your cross over hand section, you are always behind. However, the interpretation and understanding of the music is correct.
Thanks! Yes, the chromatic scale is not perfect. For the hand crossings, I wanted to make sure not to get an accent on the last note before the jump so I practiced finishing the phrase properly before jumping, but you're right it takes too much time.
A look at Beethoven's Sonata 1-10 analysis
th-cam.com/video/3D77-H2Jo1o/w-d-xo.html
SERGİ = EXPOSİTİON
GELİŞME= DEVELOPMENT
SERGİNİN TEKRARI=REEXPOSİTİON
ANA TEMA=FİRST THEME
YAN TEMA=2. THEME
BİTİŞ TEMASI=CODA
I'm stuck on 8:00 . Thank you for your explanation..i'll try...😭😭
Are you swedish?
Det är jag.
3:31 KONO DIO DA
Wtf! I just got this piece from my teacher today... What a coincidence lol... maybe i should be paranoid...
Perfect timing! ;)
@@SonataSecrets But seriously, thanks! This was a great video to get started and motivated :)
♥️♥️♥️6000♥️♥️♥️😉.
Yes, had a nice spike over christmas :)
Speaking italy zebby zatla no mariuanna
1 Christ Jesus' sufferings and crucifxion 2 Jesus' salvation being spread over --- 3 new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven
bro idk how people think this is hard it took me 1 week to learn and perfect it (im not even a nerd and practise every 1 day)
i hope you dont read peterson (?)
What you play is a lot different than what you say. You are right, there is a lot of anger in this piece but you are playing it lame like a duck.