Bill nailed it when he said it wasn't HE who was on trial, it is THE CHURCH. Thanks for sharing your disciplinary committee. Your brave, kind & scholarly approach in this setting was so succinct & referenced. There was really no room for rebuttal.
So so so good, I am a former LDS bishop I was lead out of the church by a higher power didn’t start intellectually deconstructing until later this information is so so good! I am so grateful for you for all the effort to gather this information, share it and speak your truth! This whole thing is Mic Drops 🎤
@malkiyahu self righteous hypocrite u r. If u don’t like the video and comments than keep moving instead of calling people children of the devil. Someone else’s salvation in non of your business. It’s people like you that make it hard to want to go to church.
Thank you so much. I was a very active member. I was … by a priesthoodholder. The trauma was so big that I could not go back. The leaders did not support me enough. Sometimes my bishop was realo rude. They also didn’t let me take the sacrament for 6 months!! I could also not go to the Temple. And I was the victim! I began to search for the truth. Now I am a Christian , just God, Jesus, the Bible… And I really see miracles in my life!! ❤️🙏
You weren’t victimized. I can see by your attention seeking behaviors that you are not being truthful & honest with not only others, but with yourself. Sometimes it can be difficult to accept our shortcomings and come to God through the Holy Spirit and admit we need change in our lives. I pray that you can find your way off this path of sin, destruction, doom, lies, and depravity that you have chosen. Have a nice day.
@@macysondheim you realize you are perpetuating just the sort of behavior that Saskia endured right? I find your post incredibly ironic. I always wonder why the response from LDS members is to attack those either outside the church or leaving the church.
This is one of the best podcasts I've ever heard. Thank you.!!!! I'm crying in the reality of how all of what he said has affected my life! I grew up pretending to be straight in order to fit in I did all the church asked. Mission, marriage kids, temple.....none worked. Was shamed into thinking I was broken.
Your not broken you have a sin nature just like everyone. You need Jesus Christ to give you his Righteousness. For by grace are we saved through faith it is a gift, and not of works.
@@chiefdigger5216- shame on you!! You have no clue what you are talking about! My nephew was the same meaning he tried to be straight and served a mission. I can say without question that as soon as he was 3 I knew he was born gay. No question! He is now struggling with depression because of people like you!!! YOU HAVE A SIN NATURE!
thank you kindly Bill. "When you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear." Thomas Sowell
Hold tight. I already had tremendous respect for you Bill, but hearing this takes things to a whole new level. This is what I will share with friends and family when the time is right. Edited part: I can't believe you were excommunicated over sharing the church's own factual history.
Notice at 11:32 "He didn't get the translation correct" That is an incorrect statement. As Joseph Smith got nothing wrong. Joseph Smith just didn't render a translation matching the one from that of the arrogant Egyptologists. He was never supposed to have a translation matching up with the one from that of the Egyptologists. The assumption that Joseph Smith's translation was supposed to match up with the one from that of the Egyptologists is indeed the assumption debunking the arrogant Egyptologists. You're supposed to compare the facsimiles to the Book of Abraham, not the facsimiles to the explanation. You're supposed to compare the facsimiles (counterfeit) to the Book of Abraham to show contrast between God and Satan. Paul Gregersen covers this on his videos.
@malkiyahuwhy r u on this video? Didn’t you hear the general conference talks about engaging in this kinda of arguments or r u one of those that know better than the gospel and general authority?
4 time young woman president here. Golden Convert of 43 years extremely devoted. When I found out this leadership of this church lied me about EVERYTHING i was devastated 💔. So horrifically sad and these brethren should be prosecuted for Fraud and jailed!!
@@WatchingwaitingG2DI feel sorry for you. All your comments are hateful and show you are not very intelligent. You cant stop the haemorrhaging of members around the world. In my country, there are less than 1,340 still fairly active and very elderly members. It has lost all the young members.
I just recently found out all of this information and at first it was like the bucket of cold water in the face.. Then the disbelief that we were all duped.. Now I’m just pissed!!! I am a lifelong member with pioneer heritage and just now finding this out! My kids all left the church years ago and all these years I was devastated that they did and prayed for them to return.. Now it’s like Thank God they didn’t! They are great kids with good hearts! Im 67 years old almost 68 and what to do at this point as my husband is a believer and he isn’t interested in this history..
Dear Mr Reel, you are the William Law of our time. Striving for honesty and integrity. Your 'Expositor' safe from any militia and continuing to grow. So many powerful and moving stories and perspectives. Heart wrenching truths about the harm caused. The schisms in the mythology of the churches origins. Followed by the Mic drop of Mic drops. It is the church that is on trial. Thanks for all you do and share. You are a source of reason and compassion, a place of sanctuary. Again, I Thank you.
He lies, wake up. His sources are not credible and have lies all throughout. He just thinks they are credible. People writing books about rumors are not credible sources. Anyone can write a book claiming things. Anyone can write in their journals claiming things. Taking rumor and writing them down DOES NOT all of the sudden become a fact. This guy is crazy!
Wow! This is incredible! I'm sorry that the LDS church did this to you, Bill Reel! My heart is broken and that the church doesn't want to own their lack of integrity and they refuse to be responsible for the history lacking truth... 💔🤔
Brilliant testimony. With all respect, I hope the church makes their dicision for your ex-communication. The world needs to see false religious sects cracked wide open. Stay strong Bro, your story is more valuable than gold!... plates of gold!
Thank you so much for this. I was one who WAS so faithful and obedient to the tee. Could quote the brothern and when they gave the talk. This was my daily walk.. I was the one that of the ripe old age of 18...got engaged to a retuned missionary who told me " I was the one he was to marry". He NEVER asked me to marry him!! Thus became the subject of MUCH abuse. Couldnt leave for we were sealed in the temple!! I was married 28 years. And have been single for 16. Still not realizing all the trauma. I choose to stay home. And raise my children. He died not provide for the family.. He got EVERYTHING I from the marriage. And Ive been left to work entry level jobs.. While he's off traveling to Europe, having a home where my children and their families come. I do not have this luxury. My wounds are deep!! And my older sons treat me of not worth. He has turned them against me. Despite the fact I was the parent there for them. Always trying to make up for his absence. I have suffered so much. Lives in grief for six long.. I don't want to be here. There is nothing but pain and sorrow. I followed the prophet. I was duped. My children are hurt as well. Its an awful way to have to live. PLEASE dont let any returned missionary tell you " your the one" Please don't stay in an abusing marriage. That IS NOT a marriage.!! Please listen to your heart not the brotherns words.. PleaSe set boundaries and stand up for yourself..PLEASE live your life. Don't forget who you ARE. Dont loose. yourself for ANY one. Don't worship or trust in the arm of fleah. Look to God and live🙏🙏🙏
I just want you to know that you deserve better. I hear you saying that you don't want to be here and that there is nothing but pain and sorrow. I hope you are seeing a counsellor or will consider doing that. There is happiness and joy out there for you, I promise, but after the abuse you went through your brain is going to tell you the opposite. A counsellor can help you heal and enjoy your life the way you deserve to. I am sending you lots of love. It is not too late to be happy.
Dear Windy day, May the True Biblical Jesus of Nazareth bless and keep you , make His face to shine upon and give you peace . ❤️🔥✝️🌹🥺 l I send you my love. I am an exmo who is now a born again Christian. Bless you and yours. 💐
I finally have closure Bill after leaving the church in the year 1999 as today confirmed everything that I needed to hear as its been a real valuable education listening to your speech 😊
Thank you Bill for sharing this painful experience. People need to know what the LDS church has been covering up and keeping from its members! Just wish these podcasts were available in other languages.
I just wanted to thank you for posting this, and to thank this brave man for saying all of this. I find it remarkable that he would make this presentation. I would have resigned right away and laughed at their "authority."
This one fine foundational story of why Mormonism is in a death spiral. Kudos to Bill Reel for getting “real with Mormonism.” Mr. Reel has more integrity and ethics than the entire First Presidency and Q12 combined.
Thanks for sharing here. I was wondering while listening, has anyone who was in this council and part of the decision to excommunicate you, since left and spoken with you about it?
Bill thank you for sharing your story. I was exconmunicated in 1976 because I am gay. However, I did not claim that I was kicked out for being gay but that I also came to believe that the church lied to me. I had many gay Mormon friends and when I asked them how they squared their life with the churches teachings they just said, "I am just going to hell!" I could not accept that for me. I had been a good church member, former missionary yet there I was coming to the realization that according to the church I was a sinner because of whom I loved. I am now 72 years old, I was excommunicated at a high council trial on Easter Sunday 1976 while attending BYU. I now refer to it as my ressurection experience! I much like you went to my trial to educate the bretheren about what I discoverd was not true. I had a one on one interview with the Stake President prior to the trial and it was then that I came to realize how uninformed the chuch leaders were. He asked me if I had smoked Marijuana and when I said I had he then asked me what it was like. I have watched many of your "Mormonism Live" videos with RFM - most recently the one about the church pension fund. I have gained a greater feeling of respect for you and your journey. Thanks for sharing this.
Thank you, Bill, for so clearly stating your thoughts and beliefs. I left the church 40 years ago and totally related to what you said. It was a painful path and I thank you for sharing it.
The Book of Mormon is true, and another witness of the same gospel of Jesus Christ as the Bible. Joseph Smith was a true prophet who worshipped Jesus Christ. The church was infiltrated by wicked men. When Joseph Smith was murdered, Brigham Young usurped control of the church and led some of the saints to SLC, Utah (many refused to follow him). Brigham Young introduced many false doctrines into that denomination including polygamy, men becoming Gods, Adam God, blood atonement of men, penal oath temple rituals, a Heavenly Mother, Lucifer being Jesus' brother, incorrect definition of Christ’s church, etc. None of that is in the Book of Mormon or teachings of Joseph Smith, but Brigham Young and the wicked leaders under and after him have pretended that it came from Joseph Smith in order to gain acceptance for their own evil and lustful desires. The LDS church of today is Brigham Young's denomination and is apostate from the teachings of the church under Joseph Smith.
Wow! Abinidah has nothing on Bill. Talk about performing under pressure. What comes to mind is the quote of Paul and JS "Why persecute me for telling the truth?"Everything Bill said was true and could be fact checked. That disciplinary court should have promoted him from Bishop to Prophet! I wonder how many from that event had their testimonies shaken? Bill the church taught us "Choose the right and let the consequences follow". You're a good man Bill Reel and the world is a better place because you have integrity. Thankyou from Australia(4th Generation LDS)
Excellent summary of the messy history and what the church does to those who shed an unwelcome light to the truth. Thank you, Bill for your knowledge of factual data, bravery in speaking out regarding the importance of standing up against dishonesty within the church and their desire for a very clean, curated and faith promoting story when it doesn't have that in reality. I'm sorry the church came to the conclusion to excommunicate you for telling the truth
I guess I’m in good company. My raised Mormon but was only LDS on an hour on Sunday just screamed at me that I hate Jesus, Heavenly Father, the church and him. Because, after 3 years of respectful mixed marriage he happened to see a Mormon stories episode in my TH-cam history. My shelf broke for excusing his behavior. It’s so stressful living with someone I trusted and being called a god hater for not believing in the right Jesus ❤ I’m sorry you experienced this Bill. I feel you’re speaking on my behalf as I listen to this right after being attacked for leaving the church
The Jesus of the bible who is eternal, all powerful and never changing is the truth, the way and the life. The BOM teaches a false god. You are set free to worship the true God and inherit eternal life. God bless.
I am just now hearing this ! Wow . Thank you. I noticed also that part of The Book of Mormon sounded like writing of Joseph's time . But I'm still reading it. This is fascinating history. I had no idea this much abuse it taking place. It must be addressed and acknowledged. Thank you so much for your bravery. I'm reading No Man Knows My History.
1 difference that I notice between Catholicism (I left long ago) and LDS is that my former church has had roughly 2000 years to preach crap and fix and kill and not kill and teach this and un-teach it, on and on, while Mormon history and doctrine are so recent! LDS doesn’t have so many mostly forgotten centuries in which to bury its mistakes and crimes.
Excellent exposition. You have the soul of a truth speaker. Perhaps that's what attracted you to Mormonism. But what you found is that Mormonism postures as a voice for truth but hides the truth in favor of preserving a perceived authority. It's a religion about deference to authority, not about truth. And the people who know these problems and stay DO NOT prioritize truth. You did, and it led you back out. Hats off to you for your work of truth!
“One of the last things which Brigham Young had done before leaving Iowa, was to appear in the pulpit dressed to personate the worshiped and lamented prophet Smith, and confer the prophetic succession, with all its dignities, emoluments, and authorities, upon "President Brigham Young"! The people accepted the pious fraud with the maddest enthusiasm, and Brigham's power was sealed and secured for all time. Within five years after- ward he openly added polygamy to the tenets of the church by authority of a "revelation" which he pretended had been received nine years before by Joseph Smith, albeit Joseph is amply on record as denouncing polygamy to the day of his death.” Mark Twain (Roughing it, pgs. 307)
WOW...!!! I enjoyed every minute of listening to your HONEST and well researched testimony of the TRUTH!!!. I totally agree the church is in the DARK AGES and every member needs to ask themselves the following TRUTHS about JS. Do I really want to follow a prophet from the dark ages, who committed adultery, told lies about the BOM and also used the members tithing for his own use...??? For me it's a BIG FAT NO..!!!
Great response, but the church doesn’t live in the dark ages. The church is a product of its time. There were many prairie sex doomsday cults from America at that time. It was very similar to the new age movement in the late 1990’s.
25:00 Those things don't happen today because they never happened in the past either. Being a bishop was my last calling but rather than confront some close-minded, close-hearted peers, I opted to have my name removed. The reason given was the truth - I no longer could support the theology of the church. Feeling the spirit is nothing more than self-confirming a preexisting bias as far as I can tell.
I found myself perplexed at the moment his wife was pleading for her celestial marriage even after her husband eloquently proved the fallacious nature of the church, she remains steadfast in her conviction that it is indispensable for attaining the elusive "celestial kingdom." The only plausible explanation I can fathom for her unwavering belief is the profound depth of her indoctrination. My heart breaks for her. It brings to mind a remark made by my friend when he renounced his affiliation with the church. He said that even if Joseph Smith himself were to resurrect from the grave and openly confess that he fabricated it all, the Saints would merely excommunicate him and persist undeterred in their faith. I thought he was being a little over the top and yet I just heard it with my own ears. It’s 100% completely false but I still want to be a member because I need it to make it to the celestial kingdom. It’s shocking to hear.
Most members are not interested in history. So it's easy to stay a member when you don't know the problem narratives of LDS history. Despite all this members who leave are upset they were never told the official history of JS and the restoration. About one third of members who leave say they felt lied to by the church.
If you read the book When Prophecy Fails, it shows even when prophecy/predicted events fail, the people rationalize it and continue in the religion. When Rebbe Schmersson of a Jewish sect was hailed as the "Messiah" everyone rejoiced. He died. That sect rationalized why a Messiah can die and still remained faithful. I see this today with three tax problems the LDS church had in Canada, Australia and the US. Then the SEC ruling and fine over Ensign Peak. No real response to members of the church. However very few regulars left the church. The psychology of religion amazes me.
Wow! You put the major components of Mormon history and a one hour speech. I’m seriously thinking about asking my mom to listen to this and I’ll go to two different services with her in return. Four hours of church for one hour of listening. I don’t want her to give up her old little Mormon lady friends. I don’t want her to leave the Mormon church. I just want her to have more empathy and understanding for those that do. I want her to know that it is not all roses and rainbows , to be honest, I want her to think that perhaps I made a moral decision with leaving the church. It may not be right for her, but it was certainly right for me and my family.
This man had way more compassion and patience in this situation than I would have. I would have simply skipped the meeting and requested to have my records removed. Peace out!
I love this video. One correction though for 17:58, the accounts from Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner show that she first met Joseph in February of 1831 (at 12 years old). Mary received Joseph's letter propositioning her for marriage in July 1834, which puts her at 16 years old at the date of the proposition. Perhaps she could have been 15 when he sent the letter, given the geographic distance between Nauvoo and Missouri; however, that would assume a mail delivery time of over 3 months. Either way, she was already married to a non-LDS man. Of course it wouldn't surprise me if he groomed her from 12 years old.
Wow, good on him for telling all these truths! (On the other hand, so bizarre that there are still people who believe all this ridiculous stuff, and a whole big organization that exploits them.)
Awesome. The audio had been cleaned up from what was up previously. I was considering offering to clean up the audio, but it looks like you have that handled. Thanks. Much easier to listen to.
I’ve had many spiritual experiences, God is true and in my life , I know the priesthood blessings are very true and real. I have a serious health problem, The power of the Priesthood is very real, I would not have lived without the blessings of the priesthood.
If I may be frank, I've known about seer stones, Adam God Doctrine, and all these other arguments since I was a teenager. A lot of the frustration I've had over the years studying church history were church teachers and leaders too lazy to study church history trying to restrain me from studying these things in detail. Now those same people are leaving the church in droves.
I agree. For example Russell Nelson wrote about a top hat and seer in a 1993 issue of Ensign. I heard about the Adam-God doctrine early after I was baptized. My branch president had never heard of it. The truth on JS and polygamy and polyandry has recently came out, but the Tanners sent me stuff in 1998 about these issues. The books American Moses, Rough Stone Rolling, and others were wake up calls to me about history never discussed by the church. Members are so ignorant of their own history they will dismiss any source I offer as "anti-mormon" without even reading it. That is the culture of mormonism at work. Have the members self-regulate what they will read and believe.
@@BunnyWatson-k1w was it the culture of Mormonism or was it a subculture that seemed to have a prevalent voice in the church? I'm of the latter opinion. Like I said, most of the one's that tried that with me have now left. They keep saying the church was not honest about its history, but I keep having to tell them, no that was you acting on behalf of the church in my case.
This Ronald Pullman guy is an amazing time traveler! Gave a talk in the Conference Center 16 years before it was built! And you said there were no more modern miracles 😥
Can someone share some context? I’m a nevermormon so I don’t know why this guy was in disciplinary council to begin with. I’m guessing it was questioning mormon orthodoxy?
@@papadopp3870 I'll never understand the mental gymnastics mormons go through to explain their history and continually shifting doctrine adjacent to society
I curiously wonder how many of you remember the last time you felt the Holy Ghost in a church or gospel context? It’s been prophesied that in the last days even the truly elect would be deceived and led away. And I honestly wonder how even after hearing all this… my testimony has not changed… and when I think about it. It’s been because everytime I’ve struggled with an issue or doctrine, or history item… I’ve always taken it to God, and he’s answered me EVERY TIME. Sometimes faster than others… sometimes it taking a long time… the Hoky ghost is undeniable. And I pray all of you who sincerely felt him in your lives at some point, will be able to remember what that witness felt like… and hopefully maybe, it will lead you seek truth and clarity on all these issues through that filter alone… “And by the power of the Holy Ghost, ye may know the truth of all things”
I remember asking the prophet when I was 8 yrs. old I asked him what made him think it was God that elected him. He got so mad that he couldn't come up with a good lie. He immediately made me leave
I left the church because the spirit told me to. I saw the abuse i stayed. I heard parts of the history and didn't fret. I didn't get worked up over the racist history because I saw the African American members as stronger than me in faith. I didn't leave after being falsely accused. I didn't leave after the fearful COVID-19 response of the leaders. I left after a personal experience where god told me the church leaders don't have faith enough to speak to him face to face and after that asking if the church was true and the spirit told me no.
I had an angel come down to me to deliver a message when i was 14! So... miracles still happen lol i also had a bad spirit delivered and it was very supernatural. Hes the same God.
In fact, here is a transcript with most of the claims sourced mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/04/Transcript-of-Bill-Reels-Court-of-Love-1.pdf
When you boil it all down, Only the Living Word of God is proven throughout history and the world to be truth. Man has created false religions throughout history that have all fallen into ashes and the Word Of God, The Bible is still here and saving people, giving the reader a new inspiration for their relationship with The One and Only Christ. When I realized as a young man that I couldn’t find salvation on my own and cried out to Jesus, that’s when I found piece. Romans 8.
At 5:15. There is four versions of the first vision mentioned by Bill. There are now 10 versions I am aware of. There was even a church video released in 2017 that admits to multiple versions.
The Book of Mormon is true, and another witness of the same gospel of Jesus Christ as the Bible. Joseph Smith was a true prophet who worshipped Jesus Christ. The church was infiltrated by wicked men. When Joseph Smith was murdered, Brigham Young usurped control of the church and led some of the saints to SLC, Utah (many refused to follow him). Brigham Young introduced many false doctrines into that denomination including polygamy, men becoming Gods, Adam God, blood atonement of men, penal oath temple rituals, a Heavenly Mother, Lucifer being Jesus' brother, incorrect definition of Christ’s church, etc. None of that is in the Book of Mormon or teachings of Joseph Smith, but Brigham Young and the wicked leaders under and after him have pretended that it came from Joseph Smith in order to gain acceptance for their own evil and lustful desires. The LDS church of today is Brigham Young's denomination and is apostate from the teachings of the church under Joseph Smith.
If a specific finger length arrangement correlates to a statistical increase in homosexuality, such indicates a genetic or epigenetic connection. Meaning that homosexuality isn’t a choice, but rather a normal minority expression of humanity
Curious to know if ANY of the brethren in the room went over to interact with those who were there to support you. Also curious to know if your remarks made any difference in their lives and their relationship to the church.
@@c.l.888 History has shown that truth is unimportant to some people. Remember Jesus being asked "what is truth?" Jesus did not respond because the ruler was not serious and he was looking at the truth in the flesh.
Have you talked to the Joseph Smith Foundation with Hannah Stoddard? She debunks Rough Stone Rolling because the history is based on lies which she has documentation on. Her father spent years studying. Her father is now passed but she has taken over. They have just gone through all of Helen Mar Kimball's journal and made a book. This was good information.
![Is Mormonism True Or Is It A Fraud? [How You Can Know] ML:144](/img/n.gif)
Bill nailed it when he said it wasn't HE who was on trial, it is THE CHURCH.
Thanks for sharing your disciplinary committee. Your brave, kind & scholarly approach in this setting was so succinct & referenced. There was really no room for rebuttal.
So so so good, I am a former LDS bishop I was lead out of the church by a higher power didn’t start intellectually deconstructing until later this information is so so good! I am so grateful for you for all the effort to gather this information, share it and speak your truth! This whole thing is Mic Drops 🎤
I wish I could get my family to listen to this! I don't care who's right and who's wrong... I care about the truth. I don't like being lied to.
@malkiyahu self righteous hypocrite u r. If u don’t like the video and comments than keep moving instead of calling people children of the devil. Someone else’s salvation in non of your business. It’s people like you that make it hard to want to go to church.
Jesus is truth. The Bible is verifiable. The Jesus of the Bible is not the jesus of BOM
@@brettpinion4233Christ is the God of the Old Testament.
Bill, Outstanding!! Thank you for honesty , courage , willingness to search out the truth and speak at all costs. ❤
Thank you so much.
I was a very active member.
I was … by a priesthoodholder.
The trauma was so big that I could not go back.
The leaders did not support me enough.
Sometimes my bishop was realo rude.
They also didn’t let me take the sacrament for 6 months!!
I could also not go to the Temple.
And I was the victim!
I began to search for the truth.
Now I am a Christian , just God, Jesus, the Bible…
And I really see miracles in my life!!
❤️🙏
I am so sorry but happy you are on a different path😭❤️
@@rachell6526 Thank you❤️
You weren’t victimized. I can see by your attention seeking behaviors that you are not being truthful & honest with not only others, but with yourself. Sometimes it can be difficult to accept our shortcomings and come to God through the Holy Spirit and admit we need change in our lives. I pray that you can find your way off this path of sin, destruction, doom, lies, and depravity that you have chosen. Have a nice day.
@@macysondheim thank you for your comment.
And I pray that the Lord forbids that you have to go through the hell that I had to go trough!!!!
@@macysondheim you realize you are perpetuating just the sort of behavior that Saskia endured right? I find your post incredibly ironic. I always wonder why the response from LDS members is to attack those either outside the church or leaving the church.
I felt elevated emotion listening to this
That’s the Holy Ghost. lol
I'm not LDS, simply a believer who appreciates kindness and truth. Thank you for exhibiting both.
This is one of the best podcasts I've ever heard. Thank you.!!!! I'm crying in the reality of how all of what he said has affected my life! I grew up pretending to be straight in order to fit in I did all the church asked. Mission, marriage kids, temple.....none worked. Was shamed into thinking I was broken.
Your not broken you have a sin nature just like everyone. You need Jesus Christ to give you his Righteousness. For by grace are we saved through faith it is a gift, and not of works.
@@chiefdigger5216- shame on you!! You have no clue what you are talking about! My nephew was the same meaning he tried to be straight and served a mission. I can say without question that as soon as he was 3 I knew he was born gay. No question! He is now struggling with depression because of people like you!!! YOU HAVE A SIN NATURE!
thank you kindly Bill. "When you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear." Thomas Sowell
I just listened to the original of this story yesterday! I was soooo impressed with your entire testimony.
Articulate, direct and succinct. Well done, BR.
Bill, you rocked this disciplinary council! Kudos!
“The truth shall make you free”….. we are now free from the lies and BS.
Hold tight. I already had tremendous respect for you Bill, but hearing this takes things to a whole new level. This is what I will share with friends and family when the time is right. Edited part: I can't believe you were excommunicated over sharing the church's own factual history.
I appreciate that!
Notice at 11:32 "He didn't get the translation correct" That is an incorrect statement. As Joseph Smith got nothing wrong. Joseph Smith just didn't render a translation matching the one from that of the arrogant Egyptologists. He was never supposed to have a translation matching up with the one from that of the Egyptologists. The assumption that Joseph Smith's translation was supposed to match up with the one from that of the Egyptologists is indeed the assumption debunking the arrogant Egyptologists. You're supposed to compare the facsimiles to the Book of Abraham, not the facsimiles to the explanation. You're supposed to compare the facsimiles (counterfeit) to the Book of Abraham to show contrast between God and Satan. Paul Gregersen covers this on his videos.
@@richardholmes5676 honk honk honk (_>--==
@malkiyahuwhy r u on this video? Didn’t you hear the general conference talks about engaging in this kinda of arguments or r u one of those that know better than the gospel and general authority?
@@WatchingwaitingG2Dwere you there? Non of us knows the exact truth of any of that.
4 time young woman president here. Golden Convert of 43 years extremely devoted. When I found out this leadership of this church lied me about EVERYTHING i was devastated 💔. So horrifically sad and these brethren should be prosecuted for Fraud and jailed!!
Fraud?
I feel you sister. More than a decade out and still with mixed feelings. Follow your heart. Pray I can find mine 💔
That IS happening in Australia right now!
@@WatchingwaitingG2DI feel sorry for you. All your comments are hateful and show you are not very intelligent. You cant stop the haemorrhaging of members around the world. In my country, there are less than 1,340 still fairly active and very elderly members. It has lost all the young members.
I just recently found out all of this information and at first it was like the bucket of cold water in the face.. Then the disbelief that we were all duped.. Now I’m just pissed!!! I am a lifelong member with pioneer heritage and just now finding this out! My kids all left the church years ago and all these years I was devastated that they did and prayed for them to return.. Now it’s like Thank God they didn’t! They are great kids with good hearts! Im 67 years old almost 68 and what to do at this point as my husband is a believer and he isn’t interested in this history..
Dear Mr Reel,
you are the William Law of our time. Striving for honesty and integrity. Your 'Expositor' safe from any militia and continuing to grow.
So many powerful and moving stories and perspectives. Heart wrenching truths about the harm caused. The schisms in the mythology of the churches origins.
Followed by the Mic drop of Mic drops. It is the church that is on trial.
Thanks for all you do and share. You are a source of reason and compassion, a place of sanctuary. Again, I Thank you.
AMEN! BRAVO! Thank you for saying all of the things I would love to say to my TBM family.
You are so welcome
Thanks for sharing ❤️
There is an obvious profundity to the sharing truth to a jury gathered to silence.
Now all we need is a transcript so it can be translated into 100 languages!!! This is epic Bill. Thx for putting this out.
Transcript is in the note below the video
@@MormonDiscussionawesome! I will work on getting my language produced!
He lies, wake up. His sources are not credible and have lies all throughout. He just thinks they are credible. People writing books about rumors are not credible sources. Anyone can write a book claiming things. Anyone can write in their journals claiming things. Taking rumor and writing them down DOES NOT all of the sudden become a fact. This guy is crazy!
What was the outcome after his presentation?
Wow! This is incredible! I'm sorry that the LDS church did this to you, Bill Reel! My heart is broken and that the church doesn't want to own their lack of integrity and they refuse to be responsible for the history lacking truth... 💔🤔
Very true.
Thank you for sharing. Things would be so different if more members questioned these things.
Brilliant testimony. With all respect, I hope the church makes their dicision for your ex-communication. The world needs to see false religious sects cracked wide open. Stay strong Bro, your story is more valuable than gold!... plates of gold!
Excellent job highlighting so many of the problems, in such a condensed way.
Thank you so much for this. I was one who WAS so faithful and obedient to the tee. Could quote the brothern and when they gave the talk. This was my daily walk.. I was the one that of the ripe old age of 18...got engaged to a retuned missionary who told me " I was the one he was to marry". He NEVER asked me to marry him!! Thus became the subject of MUCH abuse. Couldnt leave for we were sealed in the temple!! I was married 28 years. And have been single for 16. Still not realizing all the trauma. I choose to stay home. And raise my children. He died not provide for the family.. He got EVERYTHING I from the marriage. And Ive been left to work entry level jobs.. While he's off traveling to Europe, having a home where my children and their families come. I do not have this luxury. My wounds are deep!! And my older sons treat me of not worth. He has turned them against me. Despite the fact I was the parent there for them. Always trying to make up for his absence. I have suffered so much. Lives in grief for six long.. I don't want to be here. There is nothing but pain and sorrow. I followed the prophet. I was duped. My children are hurt as well. Its an awful way to have to live. PLEASE dont let any returned missionary tell you " your the one" Please don't stay in an abusing marriage. That IS NOT a marriage.!! Please listen to your heart not the brotherns words.. PleaSe set boundaries and stand up for yourself..PLEASE live your life. Don't forget who you ARE. Dont loose. yourself for ANY one. Don't worship or trust in the arm of fleah. Look to God and live🙏🙏🙏
I just want you to know that you deserve better. I hear you saying that you don't want to be here and that there is nothing but pain and sorrow. I hope you are seeing a counsellor or will consider doing that. There is happiness and joy out there for you, I promise, but after the abuse you went through your brain is going to tell you the opposite. A counsellor can help you heal and enjoy your life the way you deserve to. I am sending you lots of love. It is not too late to be happy.
Dear Windy day, May the True Biblical Jesus of Nazareth bless and keep you , make His face to shine upon and give you peace . ❤️🔥✝️🌹🥺 l
I send you my love. I am an exmo who is now a born again Christian.
Bless you and yours. 💐
@@inChristalone1960 Thank you so so much. I am grateful 🙏🙏
❤❤❤
@@user-gr9tm4ez7i ❤️😊
Thanks!
Thank you for being honest and bringing truth out.
Hi Jennica love your content as well!
I finally have closure Bill after leaving the church in the year 1999 as today confirmed everything that I needed to hear as its been a real valuable education listening to your speech 😊
I was asked inappropriate questions and I fricken lied cause even at age 14 I knew it was NONE of this man's business!
Thank you Bill for sharing this painful experience. People need to know what the LDS church has been covering up and keeping from its members! Just wish these podcasts were available in other languages.
Thanks for asking hard questions. So important irrespective of the outcome. I admire you.
I would love to give this 100 thumbs up!
You are truly amazing! Thank you for speaking the truth! God is so good!!
So Brave. I went through 2 courts, and the message of love and understanding is totally bogus. They dont listen, they dont really care.
I just wanted to thank you for posting this, and to thank this brave man for saying all of this.
I find it remarkable that he would make this presentation. I would have resigned right away and laughed at their "authority."
This one fine foundational story of why Mormonism is in a death spiral. Kudos to Bill Reel for getting “real with Mormonism.” Mr. Reel has more integrity and ethics than the entire First Presidency and Q12 combined.
Thanks for sharing here. I was wondering while listening, has anyone who was in this council and part of the decision to excommunicate you, since left and spoken with you about it?
Bill thank you for sharing your story. I was exconmunicated in 1976 because I am gay. However, I did not claim that I was kicked out for being gay but that I also came to believe that the church lied to me. I had many gay Mormon friends and when I asked them how they squared their life with the churches teachings they just said, "I am just going to hell!" I could not accept that for me. I had been a good church member, former missionary yet there I was coming to the realization that according to the church I was a sinner because of whom I loved. I am now 72 years old, I was excommunicated at a high council trial on Easter Sunday 1976 while attending BYU. I now refer to it as my ressurection experience! I much like you went to my trial to educate the bretheren about what I discoverd was not true. I had a one on one interview with the Stake President prior to the trial and it was then that I came to realize how uninformed the chuch leaders were. He asked me if I had smoked Marijuana and when I said I had he then asked me what it was like. I have watched many of your "Mormonism Live" videos with RFM - most recently the one about the church pension fund. I have gained a greater feeling of respect for you and your journey. Thanks for sharing this.
Sending you love and support! You are a good and valuable creation of the divine.
Thank you, Bill, for so clearly stating your thoughts and beliefs. I left the church 40 years ago and totally related to what you said. It was a painful path and I thank you for sharing it.
The Book of Mormon is true, and another witness of the same gospel of Jesus Christ as the Bible. Joseph Smith was a true prophet who worshipped Jesus Christ. The church was infiltrated by wicked men. When Joseph Smith was murdered, Brigham Young usurped control of the church and led some of the saints to SLC, Utah (many refused to follow him). Brigham Young introduced many false doctrines into that denomination including polygamy, men becoming Gods, Adam God, blood atonement of men, penal oath temple rituals, a Heavenly Mother, Lucifer being Jesus' brother, incorrect definition of Christ’s church, etc. None of that is in the Book of Mormon or teachings of Joseph Smith, but Brigham Young and the wicked leaders under and after him have pretended that it came from Joseph Smith in order to gain acceptance for their own evil and lustful desires. The LDS church of today is Brigham Young's denomination and is apostate from the teachings of the church under Joseph Smith.
Wow! Abinidah has nothing on Bill. Talk about performing under pressure. What comes to mind is the quote of Paul and JS "Why persecute me for telling the truth?"Everything Bill said was true and could be fact checked. That disciplinary court should have promoted him from Bishop to Prophet! I wonder how many from that event had their testimonies shaken? Bill the church taught us "Choose the right and let the consequences follow". You're a good man Bill Reel and the world is a better place because you have integrity. Thankyou from Australia(4th Generation LDS)
Magnificent, Bill. Thank you!!
Excellent summary of the messy history and what the church does to those who shed an unwelcome light to the truth.
Thank you, Bill for your knowledge of factual data, bravery in speaking out regarding the importance of standing up against dishonesty within the church and their desire for a very clean, curated and faith promoting story when it doesn't have that in reality.
I'm sorry the church came to the conclusion to excommunicate you for telling the truth
This is one of the best things I’ve ever heard.
Keep speaking Truth.
I guess I’m in good company. My raised Mormon but was only LDS on an hour on Sunday just screamed at me that I hate Jesus, Heavenly Father, the church and him. Because, after 3 years of respectful mixed marriage he happened to see a Mormon stories episode in my TH-cam history. My shelf broke for excusing his behavior. It’s so stressful living with someone I trusted and being called a god hater for not believing in the right Jesus ❤ I’m sorry you experienced this Bill. I feel you’re speaking on my behalf as I listen to this right after being attacked for leaving the church
The Jesus of the bible who is eternal, all powerful and never changing is the truth, the way and the life. The BOM teaches a false god. You are set free to worship the true God and inherit eternal life. God bless.
I am just now hearing this ! Wow . Thank you. I noticed also that part of The Book of Mormon sounded like writing of Joseph's time . But I'm still reading it. This is fascinating history. I had no idea this much abuse it taking place. It must be addressed and acknowledged. Thank you so much for your bravery. I'm reading No Man Knows My History.
If you want to hear more about his testimony, go to Mormon Stories, is an in-depth testimony.
Love u Bill Reel! U are amazing!❤❤❤❤
1 difference that I notice between Catholicism (I left long ago) and LDS is that my former church has had roughly 2000 years to preach crap and fix and kill and not kill and teach this and un-teach it, on and on, while Mormon history and doctrine are so recent! LDS doesn’t have so many mostly forgotten centuries in which to bury its mistakes and crimes.
Brave choice to question wrongdoings. Great video.
It’s not a video. It is audio only.
Very valid questions and points that affect many people
Excellent exposition. You have the soul of a truth speaker. Perhaps that's what attracted you to Mormonism. But what you found is that Mormonism postures as a voice for truth but hides the truth in favor of preserving a perceived authority. It's a religion about deference to authority, not about truth. And the people who know these problems and stay DO NOT prioritize truth. You did, and it led you back out. Hats off to you for your work of truth!
As a PIMO, I truly think the perversion of polygamy created the environment where child sex abuse became silently condoned in the church and Utah.
“One of the last things which Brigham Young had done before leaving Iowa, was to appear in the pulpit dressed to personate the worshiped and lamented prophet Smith, and confer the prophetic succession, with all its dignities, emoluments, and authorities, upon "President Brigham Young"! The people accepted the pious fraud with the maddest enthusiasm, and Brigham's power was sealed and secured for all time. Within five years after- ward he openly added polygamy to the tenets of the church by authority of a "revelation" which he pretended had been received nine years before by Joseph Smith, albeit Joseph is amply on record as denouncing polygamy to the day of his death.” Mark Twain (Roughing it, pgs. 307)
Agreed. Polygamy is the cause of so much hurt in the church.
WOW...!!! I enjoyed every minute of listening to your HONEST and well researched testimony of the TRUTH!!!. I totally agree the church is in the DARK AGES and every member needs to ask themselves the following TRUTHS about JS. Do I really want to follow a prophet from the dark ages, who committed adultery, told lies about the BOM and also used the members tithing for his own use...??? For me it's a BIG FAT NO..!!!
Joseph Smith was not a prophet...
Great response, but the church doesn’t live in the dark ages. The church is a product of its time. There were many prairie sex doomsday cults from America at that time. It was very similar to the new age movement in the late 1990’s.
25:00 Those things don't happen today because they never happened in the past either. Being a bishop was my last calling but rather than confront some close-minded, close-hearted peers, I opted to have my name removed. The reason given was the truth - I no longer could support the theology of the church. Feeling the spirit is nothing more than self-confirming a preexisting bias as far as I can tell.
I found myself perplexed at the moment his wife was pleading for her celestial marriage even after her husband eloquently proved the fallacious nature of the church, she remains steadfast in her conviction that it is indispensable for attaining the elusive "celestial kingdom." The only plausible explanation I can fathom for her unwavering belief is the profound depth of her indoctrination. My heart breaks for her.
It brings to mind a remark made by my friend when he renounced his affiliation with the church. He said that even if Joseph Smith himself were to resurrect from the grave and openly confess that he fabricated it all, the Saints would merely excommunicate him and persist undeterred in their faith. I thought he was being a little over the top and yet I just heard it with my own ears.
It’s 100% completely false but I still want to be a member because I need it to make it to the celestial kingdom. It’s shocking to hear.
Most members are not interested in history. So it's easy to stay a member when you don't know the problem narratives of LDS history. Despite all this members who leave are upset they were never told the official history of JS and the restoration. About one third of members who leave say they felt lied to by the church.
I think his wife has since left the church.
Latter Day Saint scripture have yet to have been proven as fraudulent works.
Lol... you're right!
If you read the book When Prophecy Fails, it shows even when prophecy/predicted events fail, the people rationalize it and continue in the religion. When Rebbe Schmersson of a Jewish sect was hailed as the "Messiah" everyone rejoiced. He died. That sect rationalized why a Messiah can die and still remained faithful. I see this today with three tax problems the LDS church had in Canada, Australia and the US. Then the SEC ruling and fine over Ensign Peak. No real response to members of the church. However very few regulars left the church. The psychology of religion amazes me.
you are free from Mormon programming. Congratulations
Say what is true let the consequence follow.
Interesting. Sharing your perspective was curtainly brave at the very least. We can’t ignore the fallibility of our humanity. We need the Saviour.
Wow! You put the major components of Mormon history and a one hour speech. I’m seriously thinking about asking my mom to listen to this and I’ll go to two different services with her in return. Four hours of church for one hour of listening.
I don’t want her to give up her old little Mormon lady friends. I don’t want her to leave the Mormon church. I just want her to have more empathy and understanding for those that do. I want her to know that it is not all roses and rainbows , to be honest, I want her to think that perhaps I made a moral decision with leaving the church. It may not be right for her, but it was certainly right for me and my family.
Excellent podcast.
Thanks for listening
This man had way more compassion and patience in this situation than I would have. I would have simply skipped the meeting and requested to have my records removed. Peace out!
Commenting to help.
Your shackles have been broken. Liberation is a virtue that proclaims high moral integrity and that has set you free.
Thank you for sharing.
I find it hilarious that a ‘disciplinary committee ‘ with no standing in the universe is taken so seriously.
Yeah. It’s all relative. From one point of view it’s a tiny, insignificant thing. To someone who is totally immersed in the culture, it is EVERYTHING.
I love this video. One correction though for 17:58, the accounts from Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner show that she first met Joseph in February of 1831 (at 12 years old). Mary received Joseph's letter propositioning her for marriage in July 1834, which puts her at 16 years old at the date of the proposition. Perhaps she could have been 15 when he sent the letter, given the geographic distance between Nauvoo and Missouri; however, that would assume a mail delivery time of over 3 months. Either way, she was already married to a non-LDS man. Of course it wouldn't surprise me if he groomed her from 12 years old.
I believe her journal said he did approach her at 12 but didn’t propose until later. Yes, he was grooming her.
Where can I find the story about the seer stone and the Manti temple?
Just type it into your search engine. Other than that??
Wow, good on him for telling all these truths! (On the other hand, so bizarre that there are still people who believe all this ridiculous stuff, and a whole big organization that exploits them.)
Is this a new post or reposted for our information?
Can we get the cliff notes on dates and what happen from what the bishop here says?
Awesome. The audio had been cleaned up from what was up previously. I was considering offering to clean up the audio, but it looks like you have that handled. Thanks. Much easier to listen to.
I noticed this too! This is much better.
I stumbled across this and want to thank you brother Reel. My testimony of the church has been strengthened by your post.
I’ve had many spiritual experiences, God is true and in my life , I know the priesthood blessings are very true and real. I have a serious health problem,
The power of the Priesthood is very real,
I would not have lived without the blessings of the priesthood.
Perfectly said
If I may be frank, I've known about seer stones, Adam God Doctrine, and all these other arguments since I was a teenager. A lot of the frustration I've had over the years studying church history were church teachers and leaders too lazy to study church history trying to restrain me from studying these things in detail. Now those same people are leaving the church in droves.
I agree. For example Russell Nelson wrote about a top hat and seer in a 1993 issue of Ensign. I heard about the Adam-God doctrine early after I was baptized. My branch president had never heard of it. The truth on JS and polygamy and polyandry has recently came out, but the Tanners sent me stuff in 1998 about these issues. The books American Moses, Rough Stone Rolling, and others were wake up calls to me about history never discussed by the church. Members are so ignorant of their own history they will dismiss any source I offer as "anti-mormon" without even reading it. That is the culture of mormonism at work. Have the members self-regulate what they will read and believe.
@@BunnyWatson-k1w was it the culture of Mormonism or was it a subculture that seemed to have a prevalent voice in the church? I'm of the latter opinion. Like I said, most of the one's that tried that with me have now left. They keep saying the church was not honest about its history, but I keep having to tell them, no that was you acting on behalf of the church in my case.
You known of seer stones and Adam God doctrine and you still stuck around? 😆
@@BunnyWatson-k1w in your readings to you come across “1984” or “Animal Farm”?
@@MeToo-py1tqyou’re very arrogant and judgmental. Former Mormon?
They need to stop lying
Mormonism has been a lie from its beginnings...
This is amazing. Also, how did you clean up the audio quality? Is this a re-recording?
It would seem 2 B...I'm also an audio guy
This Ronald Pullman guy is an amazing time traveler! Gave a talk in the Conference Center 16 years before it was built! And you said there were no more modern miracles 😥
Oh to be a fly on the wall
Can someone share some context? I’m a nevermormon so I don’t know why this guy was in disciplinary council to begin with. I’m guessing it was questioning mormon orthodoxy?
You’re essentially correct. It is about questioning orthodoxy and the way that “orthodoxy” and “history” continually shifts, changes and alters.
@@papadopp3870 I'll never understand the mental gymnastics mormons go through to explain their history and continually shifting doctrine adjacent to society
Sounds like Bill regurgitated the entire CES letter in one setting. What was their reaponse?
I curiously wonder how many of you remember the last time you felt the Holy Ghost in a church or gospel context? It’s been prophesied that in the last days even the truly elect would be deceived and led away. And I honestly wonder how even after hearing all this… my testimony has not changed… and when I think about it. It’s been because everytime I’ve struggled with an issue or doctrine, or history item… I’ve always taken it to God, and he’s answered me EVERY TIME. Sometimes faster than others… sometimes it taking a long time… the Hoky ghost is undeniable. And I pray all of you who sincerely felt him in your lives at some point, will be able to remember what that witness felt like… and hopefully maybe, it will lead you seek truth and clarity on all these issues through that filter alone… “And by the power of the Holy Ghost, ye may know the truth of all things”
I remember asking the prophet when I was 8 yrs. old I asked him what made him think it was God that elected him. He got so mad that he couldn't come up with a good lie. He immediately made me leave
more than what you said i would like to hear the councils repsond
I left the church because the spirit told me to. I saw the abuse i stayed. I heard parts of the history and didn't fret. I didn't get worked up over the racist history because I saw the African American members as stronger than me in faith. I didn't leave after being falsely accused. I didn't leave after the fearful COVID-19 response of the leaders. I left after a personal experience where god told me the church leaders don't have faith enough to speak to him face to face and after that asking if the church was true and the spirit told me no.
what was their reaction?
I had an angel come down to me to deliver a message when i was 14! So... miracles still happen lol i also had a bad spirit delivered and it was very supernatural. Hes the same God.
4th time listening to it. It's like watching Harry Potter. Revealing the mythical nature of fantasy and never gets old!
I'd like to see proof of your claims.
Which ones I would be happy to provide historical sources
In fact, here is a transcript with most of the claims sourced
mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/04/Transcript-of-Bill-Reels-Court-of-Love-1.pdf
There can’t be proof because no one who was alive then is still alive. So you need to judge by how it makes your life better now.
When you boil it all down, Only the Living Word of God is proven throughout history and the world to be truth. Man has created false religions throughout history that have all fallen into ashes and the Word Of God, The Bible is still here and saving people, giving the reader a new inspiration for their relationship with The One and Only Christ. When I realized as a young man that I couldn’t find salvation on my own and cried out to Jesus, that’s when I found piece. Romans 8.
Amen.
At 5:15. There is four versions of the first vision mentioned by Bill. There are now 10 versions I am aware of. There was even a church video released in 2017 that admits to multiple versions.
Thanks for candidness. Sad you only had enough time to mention 1% of Joseph Smith's questionable actions.
Didn’t Grant Palmer also receive the same treatment?
Great work, Bill
What year did this happen again, Bill?
2018 I believe
I’m praying daily for Mormon followers to turn to God, NOT MAN.
The Book of Mormon is true, and another witness of the same gospel of Jesus Christ as the Bible. Joseph Smith was a true prophet who worshipped Jesus Christ. The church was infiltrated by wicked men. When Joseph Smith was murdered, Brigham Young usurped control of the church and led some of the saints to SLC, Utah (many refused to follow him). Brigham Young introduced many false doctrines into that denomination including polygamy, men becoming Gods, Adam God, blood atonement of men, penal oath temple rituals, a Heavenly Mother, Lucifer being Jesus' brother, incorrect definition of Christ’s church, etc. None of that is in the Book of Mormon or teachings of Joseph Smith, but Brigham Young and the wicked leaders under and after him have pretended that it came from Joseph Smith in order to gain acceptance for their own evil and lustful desires. The LDS church of today is Brigham Young's denomination and is apostate from the teachings of the church under Joseph Smith.
If one finger is longer than the other……. What exactly does this mean?
If a specific finger length arrangement correlates to a statistical increase in homosexuality, such indicates a genetic or epigenetic connection. Meaning that homosexuality isn’t a choice, but rather a normal minority expression of humanity
Curious to know if ANY of the brethren in the room went over to interact with those who were there to support you. Also curious to know if your remarks made any difference in their lives and their relationship to the church.
That was my curious question as well.
It made no difference to me. I still believe in the church.
@@c.l.888 History has shown that truth is unimportant to some people. Remember Jesus being asked "what is truth?" Jesus did not respond because the ruler was not serious and he was looking at the truth in the flesh.
You got excommunicated for telling the truth 😢
Have you talked to the Joseph Smith Foundation with Hannah Stoddard? She debunks Rough Stone Rolling because the history is based on lies which she has documentation on.
Her father spent years studying. Her father is now passed but she has taken over.
They have just gone through all of Helen Mar Kimball's journal and made a book.
This was good information.
Elder Holland should be in a disciplinary council. Sorry for commenting so much, you just hit so many nerves.