Full Article at Americas Rugby News: www.americasrugbynews.com/2025/01/16/homegrown-and-foreign-born-players-in-2025-six-nations/ Squads will keep being updated, this vid only includes the initially named players
The Barrett brothers are foreign players. Everyone knows they were born in a barn in leitrim. Can we have them back please? And Ardie Savea, sure he's from donegal.
The Barrett family worked for a farmer named Murphy in Co. Meath early in the century. That's good enough to stop Jordie from leaving the country at the end of the season, I reckon.
Capuozzo and Page Relo are french, born in France, learned their rugby in France and still play in top14, they have italian names because they have italian grandparents. Anyway best of luck to both of them but saying they have a french connexion is a massive understatement. It's great that they can contribute to Italy becoming a much better team alongside the likes of Garbisi or Menoncello. Italy has been good in the last u20's tournaments, they may still lack a bit of depth but they could cause an upset or two ( and them beating wales would no longer be considered an upset)
All teams selecting the best players they can find that are eligible and willing to play for them. And for all teams, the majority of these are homegrown. So let’s just be happy we have good teams playing good rugby 👍 And also Wales.
Thanks for the video, nice breakdown. Your comment about the NZ connection is on point, reminds of the time that Eddie Jones saying NZ Rugby is basically using Tonga, Fiji and Samoa as rugby academies, gotta love that Eddie😂
I like the use of who they played for in the youth levels that where they were born, you always have guys like Kyle Rowe who was born down south, but I believe both parents are Scottish and went to school in Scotland, certainly got a Scottish accent. In the UK where there are no borders between the nations it’s obviously more common than most other rugby countries to see families move internally for work. Scotland certainly run an extensive exiles program to capture players like that who qualify through parentage, obviously a few examples for wales but also Tom Roebuck and Bevan Rodd for England were born in Scotland, but England age grade players. Anyway I like this way of covering nationality and not judging purely on birth, hope you enjoy the games and you got to get over here one year and soak it up a bit, I am sure there would be followers happy to help arrange tickets, I could lend you a kilt as well, no need to do the ‘true Scotsman’ though.
Frisch for France is one you missed. Hes incredibly complex. Irish granny, and a full french half of his family. Spent time on England so possibly qualifies their as well. Great video. One of the best content creators for our sport.
Yeh but he was borne in England and played all of his rugby here. I really don't think it cuts against Scotland - they only benefit from it. I have a Scottish parent and wouldn't consider myself Scottish at all.
Huw Jones’ dad taught rugby at my primary school in England, he was FIERCELY Scottish. Never shut up about it, wore a Scotland shirt in every training session etc. So Huw Jones is (in my mind) undeniably Scottish.
@clemfandango619 Scots is a minority dialect of English spoken in a tiny part of Scotland that used to be the same country as Northumberland, its not exactly a measure of Scottishness....
Huw’s parents are back in Scotland now as well, I think he was 3 years in Scotland before moving south. Never played any age grade rugby and got picked up for pro rugby from SA unis. Scotland only found out about him as one of Townsend’s analysts recorded games to watch and I believe was watching overnight while looking after a young child and spotted a Scotland flag next to his name and liked what he saw and kept tabs. That might not be the exact events, but something along those lines.
It’s an interesting view on national management eh? I remember when I was playing a few years ago, there were 26,000 registered players across all genders and ages and it was 350,000 players registered in England. I think it’s gone up in both countries which is fantastic, but you can see why some countries struggle for home grown talent.
Thanks Mark, might quiten the bores that keep calling Scotland SA B team, clearly not. Did aldritt not play his young rugby in Scotland?, also u mentioned Allan, I thought he played early Scottish rugby? Looks like six through England system but majority either born in Scotland or Scottish parents. Fine with me
Yeah man it's an interesting one aye, not actually about Alldritt man, that'd be an interesting one. But yeah some guys are really hard to pigeonhole. Like Allan - moving around so much doesn't really fit into any one box
Meafou played 2 seasons of NRC so did play professionally/semi professionally but didn't get a SR contract, possibly due to tight finances in 2018. One of the NRC teams disbanded that year and 2019 was the last year the NRC was run before foxtel who was a major funder of the competition lost the broadcast rights for rugby to Stan Sports. COVID killed it off entirely.
@@TwoCentsRugby Yeah there's quite a few running around in 6N at the moment. Hansen, Dempsey, M Ioane, Tuipulotu for starters. I think the prevailing wisdom at the time was that style of lock was too "fat" for SR. Skelton had departed the year before in 2017 and he was always being criticised because he couldn't jump, couldn't go 80 etc. Think about other big locks like Sitaleki Timani and Sam Lousi who never really got going in SR.
Sadly, You’ve contradicted yourself with a graph showing none on Birth for England whereas the 2 ‘parents’ players where both born in England and moved away at 4
Yeah born to English parents right? Can't really list them as birth and parents. Saved birth for people like Huw Jones - who was born in Scotland to English parents. So only qualifies for Scotland because he was born there
Can't blame a player for taking an opportunity to play int'l, and can't blame a selector for picking someone eligible. I still have a concern about residency picks for guys who took up pro contracts as adults, more for what that does to their own local province/club competition. Seems that every year, int'l bites into next tier down a little more
Rules no ones breaking them. Maybe it's time to drop granny rule as for qualification time spent at English rugby schools ( or any other monetarily shafting of smaller nations) on a scholarship shouldn't count towards residency.
Henry Pollock is an interesting one for England. Both his parents are 100% Scottish but he was born in England and has played England age grade and England A so thankfully he’s chosen England over Scotland. Great player
So he's Scottish then lol. If both parent's are Scottish that means your scottish. That's just a fact. A piece of land doesn't tell me where someone's from.
@@LeeRemi-w2nbut you won't see headline "England select Scottish Qualified player" (as we did when Burke was selected for Scotland). also usual reminder on these things. To be in an English Academy, you have to be EQ, and have to play Age grade if selected. thankfully World Rugby removed U20s as a capture team.
Yeah I think for "home grown" status we're looking at the formative years of rugby (school years) - Negri going to school in Durban is what Paul has looked at here
I definitely stayed away from the "foreign" part this time cos it rubs some people up the wrong way. Simply home grown or not 😅 It's like our man Tamaiti Williams is a NZ born lad but grew up in Western Australia - so he's still a Kiwi but we can't call him home grown in rugby terms cos Australia needs some credit there
@@TwoCentsRugby same issue. John Barclay was born and brought up in Hong Kong. Is he chinese? No Time to stop this nonsense and focus only on who qualifies under the rules!
@TwoCentsRugby so cameron redpath, the son of the former scottish captain bryan redpath was recruited from france or england and john barclay was recruited from China?
All kind of irrelevant. The fact is that ancestry eligibility has been around for many decades and you would be hard pressed to think of any international representative sport that didn't have ancestry eligibility. So why would Rugby be any differen As for Residency, I think it is much diminished ever since the criteria was moved from 3 years to 5 years. 5 years is a long time in the career of a Pro Rugby. Some that are mentioned....Antonio in France, and Bundi Aki in Ireland, are 10 years or more in those countries. James Lowe and Gibson Park are around in Irish Rugby for 7/8 years. In other words, they may have come from the Kiwi schools system, but whatever they have amounted to as as pro players, is because of the country that they moved to....not because of the country they moved from. I am sure in all cases, they were unsuccessful in getting opportunity in their original countries and moved abroad for new opportunities. Add to that, Antonio is a French citizen, and Bundi and Gibson Park are Irish citizens. Why wouldn't an official citizen of a country not be eligible to play for that country.
Yeah guys like JGP, Lowe were definitely not making the ABs in NZ. Their games improved so much since heading overseas - a lot of credit needs to go to the coaching the received in that period. I think it's technically possible to be a citizen and not eligible for a country. Like if I married someone from a country, took their citizenship, got a passport etc, but hadn't lived there long enough/didn't have any parent/grandparent connection
The big issue I have with these videos is the implication that players are complete once they come through a junior system and no development happens once they come into the senior ranks. Tom Jordan, James Lowe and Jamison Gibson Park are infinitely better players through their time at Leinster / Glasgow than they were when they left NZ shores, likewise Duhan, who was rejected by South African provinces and Montpellier before he got an opportunity at Edinburgh. Also, the claims that a player like Manu Tuilagi doesn't count as foreign because he was brought up in England are a little bit dubious. Is anybody seriously arguing that Manu Tuilagi's success as an international rugby player owes more to his time playing Under-14s rugby at Hinckley college than the genetic make-up that he shares with his 5 Samoan international rugby playing brothers? Love all your videos except these ones.
Look at Lowe and JGP at Leinster before getting their Irish caps- all offense, poor defense. Not International quality at all, certainly not ABs level. They developed into complete players in Ireland.
Yeah there's defnintely continued development for these guys as they become pro rugby players. For me it's just another part of the game - it's genuinely interesting to see which players pick which countries to play for, the backgrounds of the players etc.
@TwoCentsRugby they love to say NZ raids the islands of players but its the actually the way round, samoa and tonga don't develop their own and rely on NZ and Aus for players - union and league
would be interesting to see which countries have capped dual citizens once to deny players to other countries, Frisch is the french example to deny ireland, there is that blonde20 year old who got 1 cap for england A but not picked for 6 nations but both his parents are scottish so he is locked out of scotland contention for 3 years
Yeah here in NZ there was a lot of talk we capped PIta Gus Sowakula to deny Fiji. Also now some talk Burke got the call up cos he's eligible for England and NZ etc
Ahh I wouldn’t worry about it New Zealand believes it owns all the good players on the islands and are very quick to bring them under their wing as early as possible.
NZ have been taking the crop of the best South Sea Islands players for 40 years. These arguments are irrelevant in 2024. The world is a small place. If a player qualifies under the rules it’s irrelevant. Don’t really understand the point of the video. (Big fan btw 😂).
Actually no. The vast majority of players playing for NZ who are of Polynesian descent are born in NZ. Are you aware that 80%+ of the players playing for Samoa and Tonga respectively are actually NZ born but with Polynesian heritage? You have it the wrong way round.
Way too many foreign players in certain mercenary teams. Eligibility rules need to be changed because this is becoming a joke. At minimum you should have to be a citizen of the country you are going to represent otherwise you get situations like Bundi who played 57 games for Ireland before becoming a citizen. Unacceptable tbh
@anro1075 you 100% don't need to import players to grow the sport If you need to import players then your system is failing. SA and Argentina are all home grown and yet they're doing better than ever. France requires you to be a French citizen to play for them and they are thriving
@ south africa and argentina have tradition… what about countries who don’t have a huge pool tu choose from? Scotland can’t compete without importing. Never mind italy. Georgia, portugal, spain, uruguay. How are they supposed to grow without the amount of money and player tier 1 nation have?
In the last World Cup New Zealand had 8 of 33 foreign players, maybe two now in their last outing, but they have never been shy of promoting islanders to play their rugby in New Zealand . And England with a similar number. Historically both these teams have had 6/7 recruits.
They’re not taking players who’ve already played at a professional level or missed being capped by other countries though. Any external player playing for NZ will have come through and been developed by the NZ rugby system and likely arrived on a rugby scholarship in their early teens. People like to assume that anyone who looks Polynesian in the ABs has been scalped from the Islands. They don’t realise there’s 380,000 Polynesians living in NZ (300,000 in Auckland alone) and it’s been that way for decades. That’s 60,000 more people than the combined populations of Tonga and Samoa.
@ all your doing is poaching youngsters, its something we now see in France again poaching youngsters players from countries who don’t have academies for young players. It’s very big of NZ to try attract youngsters into their system before their home countries simply because it’s so much more attractive for the kids and their families. Your system is no different than any other and you can make all the excuses you want the rest of the rugby world is not fooled by what you do.
@ there are no excuses needed. Insecure fans/pundits from overseas see brown skin and assume import. In NZ that opinion is viewed as a means as reconciling the frustration of not having achieved the same feats in the game. Basically fabricating reasons to discredit the achievements of others to make themselves feel better about their own nations lack of rugby success.
@ I’m not down playing anything, it’s just your insecurities that is the problem. Many NZ players go through your academies and don’t make the NZ grade travel to other countries and find themselves in other academies who actually can make real players out of them because they do things better and its only when you see failed in NZ player like Jamison Gibson park go through Irish academy and come out a much better player than he could ever have hoped in NZ. It’s this kind of thing that has NZ rugby in a tizzy and the only argument you have is players from NZ are being poached and thats complete rubbish. Your academies are getting old the rest of the rugby world is catching up and you don’t like it. Nobody in rugby cares or measures players by the colour of their skin or their names get over it you are no different than any other international team and its usually only NZ who try to deny they do the same as almost every other country.
@ well NZ has done it better than most more often than most. I think our development is just fine. Especially against Ireland recently it would seem. No one is insecure here. We just call out bullshit born from ignorance when we hear it. Also, no one claims NZ players are being poached. There was no way Gibson was going to get an AB start with Aaron Smith at 9. He left of his own volition, didn’t want to fight for it. Not a characteristic desired by the ABs so everyone’s happy.
while i love the rest of the content on this channel, these videos never bring anything beneficial and only cause disingenuous arguments over qualification rules
I take it your of the opinion that it does not matter if your homegrown? I enjoy these videos, It provides an idea of what the health of the local games are.
Only a team who can't produce their own players would ever be upset about this. The fact is is that there are way to many foreign players in teams and the eligibility rules need to be changed.
That's not two cents fault is it? Sports fans are a cancer on the Internet. It's up to them whether they get genuinely bothered about these harmless facts.
Not really sure of the point of this ! Players go to other countries for a better life , they were not getting capped at home , they went to other countries and were developed there to become internationals , this is a bit “ look at us great allBlacks everywhere! This is the professional era , no one said oh you are an international , please come and play for our country!
FFS I think most European countries define nationality not only by place birth only but by blood. Please stop being so Anglo centric And Mr Tait has rather al lot of axes to grind, so I would hardly take is opinion as worthy. E.G Soccer's highest world cup goal score is Miro Klose morn in now polish Silesia that had been German from day dot till 1945. Ethnic German played for Germany it doesn't matter where you are born if you are a citizen. It is NATIONAL team. it represents the the STATE, hence the sing an NATIONAL anthem, not s song of the the rugby education system
Unfortunately citizenship is dictated at a national level, so using it for representation has just led to citizenship being handed out by. Residency qualification has been set at the time period most European and Anglosphere countries set as their citizenship by residency level for this reason. It essentially done in citizenship lines but can't be gamed by somewhere like Qatar getting a team instantly by sending 30 South Africans a brown envelope and a citizenship certificate.
@@DoddyIshamel what a pile of rubbish. All European countries have a string process of lineage or marriage. You just spouting the UK bs. They used soccer and the Arab countries trying it with Brazilian players... How many world cups have the UAE won. I think you'll find all countries that uses blood right were happy. But at the time they didn't have equal representation at the IRB that had 3 Welsh reps, so when they lied about Welsh grandparents charvis and howarth et al they brought in residency qualification. It is old British empire cultural imperialism.
@thephantomstranger4073 2 European countries outside Britain and Ireland play rugby at the top level. France and Italy. France has a direct 5 year residency requirement identical to Britain and Ireland which is what the residency rules in rugby are built on. Italy has variable time frame (4-10 years) depending where you come from. The other European countries that qualified for WC; Portugal 5 years residency (or even 5 year visa). Spain 2-10 years residency depending where from. Romania 8 years residency but halved for people like professional rugby players. Georgia 10 years residency but has the presidential decree so beloved of gulf states. So in every nation at least some people can get citizenship in the same or less time than the residency period and only in Italy and Spain would some incoming rugby players take longer. Why talk nonsense when it's easy to check. Literally dozens of Olympic gold medals have been by people gifted citizenship. It's endemic. Very smart of you to pick football, the one sport (well, bon US sport) where international representation is not the money spinner as your terrible example.
@@DoddyIshamel you should check you facts residency qualification was brought it to cover Wales cheating... Funny how the punished Spain... The biggest tragedy was the merging of Fira with the corrupt IRB.
@@DoddyIshamel and anyway soon rugby will have to accept Olympic qualification rules if the want to continue in the Olympics. So irrespective of grandparents rule if you hold citizenship you'll be able to play 7s and then 15s
I like the use of who they played for in the youth levels that where they were born, you always have guys like Kyle Rowe who was born down south, but I believe both parents are Scottish and went to school in Scotland, certainly got a Scottish accent. In the UK where there are no borders between the nations it’s obviously more common than most other rugby countries to see families move internally for work. Scotland certainly run an extensive exiles program to capture players like that who qualify through parentage, obviously a few examples for wales but also Tom Roebuck and Bevan Rodd for England were born in Scotland, but England age grade players. Anyway I like this way of covering nationality and not judging purely on birth, hope you enjoy the games and you got to get over here one year and soak it up a bit, I am sure there would be followers happy to help arrange tickets, I could lend you a kilt as well, no need to do the ‘true Scotsman’ though.
Full Article at Americas Rugby News: www.americasrugbynews.com/2025/01/16/homegrown-and-foreign-born-players-in-2025-six-nations/
Squads will keep being updated, this vid only includes the initially named players
I need a new bathroom only $199 wow
Wat about Dan Brennan france
Daniel Brennan france Dublin born
@@JonathanFahy Not Dan but Joshua
He moved in France at 6 months old and learn to play rugby in Toulouse so he's part of the homegrowns
The Barrett brothers are foreign players. Everyone knows they were born in a barn in leitrim.
Can we have them back please?
And Ardie Savea, sure he's from donegal.
The Barrett family worked for a farmer named Murphy in Co. Meath early in the century. That's good enough to stop Jordie from leaving the country at the end of the season, I reckon.
haha love it!
Capuozzo and Page Relo are french, born in France, learned their rugby in France and still play in top14, they have italian names because they have italian grandparents. Anyway best of luck to both of them but saying they have a french connexion is a massive understatement. It's great that they can contribute to Italy becoming a much better team alongside the likes of Garbisi or Menoncello. Italy has been good in the last u20's tournaments, they may still lack a bit of depth but they could cause an upset or two ( and them beating wales would no longer be considered an upset)
All teams selecting the best players they can find that are eligible and willing to play for them. And for all teams, the majority of these are homegrown. So let’s just be happy we have good teams playing good rugby 👍 And also Wales.
Very interesting and well presented 2c's.
Many thanks!
Thanks for the video, nice breakdown. Your comment about the NZ connection is on point, reminds of the time that Eddie Jones saying NZ Rugby is basically using Tonga, Fiji and Samoa as rugby academies, gotta love that Eddie😂
Yeah the trouble is people believe him 😂
Nice info. Great video. Your comment about the NZ press made me laugh. 'We didn't cap him' enough said. The rules is the rules
Really interesting video - never knew that Randall was a taff.
Yeah I didn't know either! Paul does a lot of good research on this topic
I like the use of who they played for in the youth levels that where they were born, you always have guys like Kyle Rowe who was born down south, but I believe both parents are Scottish and went to school in Scotland, certainly got a Scottish accent. In the UK where there are no borders between the nations it’s obviously more common than most other rugby countries to see families move internally for work. Scotland certainly run an extensive exiles program to capture players like that who qualify through parentage, obviously a few examples for wales but also Tom Roebuck and Bevan Rodd for England were born in Scotland, but England age grade players.
Anyway I like this way of covering nationality and not judging purely on birth, hope you enjoy the games and you got to get over here one year and soak it up a bit, I am sure there would be followers happy to help arrange tickets, I could lend you a kilt as well, no need to do the ‘true Scotsman’ though.
Frisch for France is one you missed. Hes incredibly complex. Irish granny, and a full french half of his family. Spent time on England so possibly qualifies their as well. Great video. One of the best content creators for our sport.
Frisch is still a home grown French player, despite his heritage and birth, he learned rugby in France.
Frisch was born in France
@@clemfandango619 yeah you're correct. Still... incredibly complex journey to international rugby.
@@eamonlyons8069 England could have Gailleton too as he was born in Croydon (French father- English mother)
@kropotkine9640 Alldritt has Scottish roots
Quick precision on Emmanuel Meafou and Uini Atonio, they both have a French passport, which until recently was required to play with France XV.
Thanks Mark.
Welcome!
Ironically, Henry Pollock's parents are both Scottish and he has gone for England. So it cuts both ways.
Yeh but he was borne in England and played all of his rugby here. I really don't think it cuts against Scotland - they only benefit from it. I have a Scottish parent and wouldn't consider myself Scottish at all.
Huw Jones was born in Leith, Edinburgh (but also has a maternal Scottish grandfather so could go into the grandparent column) 👍
Huw Jones’ dad taught rugby at my primary school in England, he was FIERCELY Scottish. Never shut up about it, wore a Scotland shirt in every training session etc. So Huw Jones is (in my mind) undeniably Scottish.
Non-Scottish name. I doubt he can speak a lick of Scots.
@clemfandango619 Scots is a minority dialect of English spoken in a tiny part of Scotland that used to be the same country as Northumberland, its not exactly a measure of Scottishness....
@@DoddyIshamel no, it's all performative scottishness.
Huw’s parents are back in Scotland now as well, I think he was 3 years in Scotland before moving south. Never played any age grade rugby and got picked up for pro rugby from SA unis. Scotland only found out about him as one of Townsend’s analysts recorded games to watch and I believe was watching overnight while looking after a young child and spotted a Scotland flag next to his name and liked what he saw and kept tabs. That might not be the exact events, but something along those lines.
Just listening to Jones talk in interviews, posh voice, plus the fact he learned his rugby in England. Yeah he's as Scottish as they come.
It’s an interesting view on national management eh? I remember when I was playing a few years ago, there were 26,000 registered players across all genders and ages and it was 350,000 players registered in England. I think it’s gone up in both countries which is fantastic, but you can see why some countries struggle for home grown talent.
350,000 in England is a myth.
Young Brennan was born in Ireland but went through the French system
100%
Thanks Mark, might quiten the bores that keep calling Scotland SA B team, clearly not.
Did aldritt not play his young rugby in Scotland?, also u mentioned Allan, I thought he played early Scottish rugby?
Looks like six through England system but majority either born in Scotland or Scottish parents. Fine with me
Yeah man it's an interesting one aye, not actually about Alldritt man, that'd be an interesting one. But yeah some guys are really hard to pigeonhole. Like Allan - moving around so much doesn't really fit into any one box
Alldritt didn't play in scotland to the best of my knowledge. He learned his rugby in the south west of France, notably in Auch
Aldritt never played in Scotland
Meafou played 2 seasons of NRC so did play professionally/semi professionally but didn't get a SR contract, possibly due to tight finances in 2018. One of the NRC teams disbanded that year and 2019 was the last year the NRC was run before foxtel who was a major funder of the competition lost the broadcast rights for rugby to Stan Sports. COVID killed it off entirely.
Seems like a massive miss aye?
@@TwoCentsRugby Yeah there's quite a few running around in 6N at the moment. Hansen, Dempsey, M Ioane, Tuipulotu for starters.
I think the prevailing wisdom at the time was that style of lock was too "fat" for SR. Skelton had departed the year before in 2017 and he was always being criticised because he couldn't jump, couldn't go 80 etc. Think about other big locks like Sitaleki Timani and Sam Lousi who never really got going in SR.
Botham’s dad, Liam, played for Cardiff so always going to ✊
That'll explain the Welsh flag on his wall
I may be wrong but collectively, there seems to be more homegrown than would have been the case a decade ago
Sadly, You’ve contradicted yourself with a graph showing none on Birth for England whereas the 2 ‘parents’ players where both born in England and moved away at 4
Yeah born to English parents right? Can't really list them as birth and parents. Saved birth for people like Huw Jones - who was born in Scotland to English parents. So only qualifies for Scotland because he was born there
Honestly, I'm surprised that Wales don't have more foreign players.
Can't blame a player for taking an opportunity to play int'l, and can't blame a selector for picking someone eligible.
I still have a concern about residency picks for guys who took up pro contracts as adults, more for what that does to their own local province/club competition. Seems that every year, int'l bites into next tier down a little more
Is Feyi Waboso not welsh or something
Yeah he's not in the squad though sadly, injured
@@TwoCentsRugby Ah that's a shame
Rules no ones breaking them. Maybe it's time to drop granny rule as for qualification time spent at English rugby schools ( or any other monetarily shafting of smaller nations) on a scholarship shouldn't count towards residency.
Henry Pollock is an interesting one for England. Both his parents are 100% Scottish but he was born in England and has played England age grade and England A so thankfully he’s chosen England over Scotland. Great player
100% Scottish? Pretty sure his parents would be lowland Scots, who are indistinguishable from English people.
So he's Scottish then lol. If both parent's are Scottish that means your scottish. That's just a fact. A piece of land doesn't tell me where someone's from.
@@LeeRemi-w2nbut you won't see headline "England select Scottish Qualified player" (as we did when Burke was selected for Scotland).
also usual reminder on these things. To be in an English Academy, you have to be EQ, and have to play Age grade if selected. thankfully World Rugby removed U20s as a capture team.
@NiallMcKenzie Burke wasn't born, raised and trained Scotland as Pollock was in England.
@@clemfandango619Raised by 2 Scottish parents means he's Scottish. I know it's hard to take but the lads Scottish.
I like that both of England's foreign raised players are both England-born
Yeah it seems counter intuitive, but it's a nice story to see them back in England
See, you are not mentioning the Welsh born winger who is injured at the moment!
he might not be at the 6N but the real miss for wales is feyi waboso slipped tight through our fingers
Yeah man that feels like a big loss
I think Liam Bothams Dad played for Cardiff?
As much as I like Mac I don’t think he’s a miss for the Aussies. Australia have heaps of good wingers. If he was a prop it’s a different story 😂
Negri is from Zim not SA, although he is a monster amd I've love to claim he's from SA
Yeah I think for "home grown" status we're looking at the formative years of rugby (school years) - Negri going to school in Durban is what Paul has looked at here
@TwoCentsRugby ah I see 👌
How the hell does a scot born in england become a foreigner? Also richardson is out. Nice try though!
I definitely stayed away from the "foreign" part this time cos it rubs some people up the wrong way. Simply home grown or not 😅 It's like our man Tamaiti Williams is a NZ born lad but grew up in Western Australia - so he's still a Kiwi but we can't call him home grown in rugby terms cos Australia needs some credit there
@@TwoCentsRugby same issue. John Barclay was born and brought up in Hong Kong. Is he chinese? No
Time to stop this nonsense and focus only on who qualifies under the rules!
@TwoCentsRugby so cameron redpath, the son of the former scottish captain bryan redpath was recruited from france or england and john barclay was recruited from China?
No but I think there's nothing wrong with saying where players learned the game? 🤷
All kind of irrelevant.
The fact is that ancestry eligibility has been around for many decades and you would be hard pressed to think of any international representative sport that didn't have ancestry eligibility. So why would Rugby be any differen
As for Residency, I think it is much diminished ever since the criteria was moved from 3 years to 5 years. 5 years is a long time in the career of a Pro Rugby.
Some that are mentioned....Antonio in France, and Bundi Aki in Ireland, are 10 years or more in those countries. James Lowe and Gibson Park are around in Irish Rugby for 7/8 years. In other words, they may have come from the Kiwi schools system, but whatever they have amounted to as as pro players, is because of the country that they moved to....not because of the country they moved from. I am sure in all cases, they were unsuccessful in getting opportunity in their original countries and moved abroad for new opportunities.
Add to that, Antonio is a French citizen, and Bundi and Gibson Park are Irish citizens. Why wouldn't an official citizen of a country not be eligible to play for that country.
Yeah guys like JGP, Lowe were definitely not making the ABs in NZ. Their games improved so much since heading overseas - a lot of credit needs to go to the coaching the received in that period.
I think it's technically possible to be a citizen and not eligible for a country. Like if I married someone from a country, took their citizenship, got a passport etc, but hadn't lived there long enough/didn't have any parent/grandparent connection
The England one is dumb - neither of those 2 should count as not home grown
The big issue I have with these videos is the implication that players are complete once they come through a junior system and no development happens once they come into the senior ranks. Tom Jordan, James Lowe and Jamison Gibson Park are infinitely better players through their time at Leinster / Glasgow than they were when they left NZ shores, likewise Duhan, who was rejected by South African provinces and Montpellier before he got an opportunity at Edinburgh.
Also, the claims that a player like Manu Tuilagi doesn't count as foreign because he was brought up in England are a little bit dubious. Is anybody seriously arguing that Manu Tuilagi's success as an international rugby player owes more to his time playing Under-14s rugby at Hinckley college than the genetic make-up that he shares with his 5 Samoan international rugby playing brothers?
Love all your videos except these ones.
Look at Lowe and JGP at Leinster before getting their Irish caps- all offense, poor defense. Not International quality at all, certainly not ABs level. They developed into complete players in Ireland.
Yeah there's defnintely continued development for these guys as they become pro rugby players. For me it's just another part of the game - it's genuinely interesting to see which players pick which countries to play for, the backgrounds of the players etc.
Entire samoa and tonga teams are usually all from NZ.
Yeah I don't think people from outside NZ understand just how big our Samoan and Tongan community is
@TwoCentsRugby they love to say NZ raids the islands of players but its the actually the way round, samoa and tonga don't develop their own and rely on NZ and Aus for players - union and league
would be interesting to see which countries have capped dual citizens once to deny players to other countries, Frisch is the french example to deny ireland, there is that blonde20 year old who got 1 cap for england A but not picked for 6 nations but both his parents are scottish so he is locked out of scotland contention for 3 years
Yeah here in NZ there was a lot of talk we capped PIta Gus Sowakula to deny Fiji. Also now some talk Burke got the call up cos he's eligible for England and NZ etc
I appreciate you keeping RJ and Barrett off the books for now. But soon...
RG👍
@@victordastile5204 Casual alert soz.
Unless you believe if I say that RJ is the codename so that he flies under a really tall radar
🌹🌹🌹🌹
Negri for Italy is Zimbabwean
Yeah I think they moved to SA though (went to school there) so Paul has credited SA with that being where he learned his rugby
You cant blame the Irish its not our fault we travelled a lot!! At least for the Kiwi's we didnt take the Barretts.Ok perhaps they didnt want to come.
Ahh I wouldn’t worry about it New Zealand believes it owns all the good players on the islands and are very quick to bring them under their wing as early as possible.
They all spent a year in Ireland, tbf. Beaudean was Irish cross country champ for his age.
NZ have been taking the crop of the best South Sea Islands players for 40 years. These arguments are irrelevant in 2024. The world is a small place. If a player qualifies under the rules it’s irrelevant. Don’t really understand the point of the video. (Big fan btw 😂).
Actually no. The vast majority of players playing for NZ who are of Polynesian descent are born in NZ. Are you aware that 80%+ of the players playing for Samoa and Tonga respectively are actually NZ born but with Polynesian heritage?
You have it the wrong way round.
Yeah it's part of that misconception that had me starting this series all those years ago
Feyi-Waboso?
Not playing this tournament
Way too many foreign players in certain mercenary teams. Eligibility rules need to be changed because this is becoming a joke. At minimum you should have to be a citizen of the country you are going to represent otherwise you get situations like Bundi who played 57 games for Ireland before becoming a citizen. Unacceptable tbh
Agree but at the end of the day rugby ist still a niche sport. If u want rugby to grow you have also to live with this
@anro1075 you 100% don't need to import players to grow the sport
If you need to import players then your system is failing. SA and Argentina are all home grown and yet they're doing better than ever. France requires you to be a French citizen to play for them and they are thriving
@ south africa and argentina have tradition… what about countries who don’t have a huge pool tu choose from? Scotland can’t compete without importing. Never mind italy. Georgia, portugal, spain, uruguay. How are they supposed to grow without the amount of money and player tier 1 nation have?
It is what it is , so pointless to debate .
In the last World Cup New Zealand had 8 of 33 foreign players, maybe two now in their last outing, but they have never been shy of promoting islanders to play their rugby in New Zealand . And England with a similar number. Historically both these teams have had 6/7 recruits.
They’re not taking players who’ve already played at a professional level or missed being capped by other countries though. Any external player playing for NZ will have come through and been developed by the NZ rugby system and likely arrived on a rugby scholarship in their early teens.
People like to assume that anyone who looks Polynesian in the ABs has been scalped from the Islands. They don’t realise there’s 380,000 Polynesians living in NZ (300,000 in Auckland alone) and it’s been that way for decades. That’s 60,000 more people than the combined populations of Tonga and Samoa.
@ all your doing is poaching youngsters, its something we now see in France again poaching youngsters players from countries who don’t have academies for young players. It’s very big of NZ to try attract youngsters into their system before their home countries simply because it’s so much more attractive for the kids and their families. Your system is no different than any other and you can make all the excuses you want the rest of the rugby world is not fooled by what you do.
@ there are no excuses needed. Insecure fans/pundits from overseas see brown skin and assume import. In NZ that opinion is viewed as a means as reconciling the frustration of not having achieved the same feats in the game. Basically fabricating reasons to discredit the achievements of others to make themselves feel better about their own nations lack of rugby success.
@ I’m not down playing anything, it’s just your insecurities that is the problem. Many NZ players go through your academies and don’t make the NZ grade travel to other countries and find themselves in other academies who actually can make real players out of them because they do things better and its only when you see failed in NZ player like Jamison Gibson park go through Irish academy and come out a much better player than he could ever have hoped in NZ. It’s this kind of thing that has NZ rugby in a tizzy and the only argument you have is players from NZ are being poached and thats complete rubbish. Your academies are getting old the rest of the rugby world is catching up and you don’t like it. Nobody in rugby cares or measures players by the colour of their skin or their names get over it you are no different than any other international team and its usually only NZ who try to deny they do the same as almost every other country.
@ well NZ has done it better than most more often than most. I think our development is just fine. Especially against Ireland recently it would seem.
No one is insecure here. We just call out bullshit born from ignorance when we hear it.
Also, no one claims NZ players are being poached. There was no way Gibson was going to get an AB start with Aaron Smith at 9. He left of his own volition, didn’t want to fight for it.
Not a characteristic desired by the ABs so everyone’s happy.
lets go scotbokke
we count Huw as a south african, drank many a brandy with him in cape town
while i love the rest of the content on this channel, these videos never bring anything beneficial and only cause disingenuous arguments over qualification rules
I take it your of the opinion that it does not matter if your homegrown? I enjoy these videos, It provides an idea of what the health of the local games are.
@@moshechen3582Agreed
I think that’s rather unfair, it just shows how good the academy and club programs are domestically for each nation
Only a team who can't produce their own players would ever be upset about this. The fact is is that there are way to many foreign players in teams and the eligibility rules need to be changed.
That's not two cents fault is it? Sports fans are a cancer on the Internet. It's up to them whether they get genuinely bothered about these harmless facts.
Not really sure of the point of this ! Players go to other countries for a better life , they were not getting capped at home , they went to other countries and were developed there to become internationals , this is a bit “ look at us great allBlacks everywhere! This is the professional era , no one said oh you are an international , please come and play for our country!
Interesting take - I'm always interested to see just how many guys went through the English system - certainly a bigger impact on the 6N than NZ
FFS I think most European countries define nationality not only by place birth only but by blood. Please stop being so Anglo centric
And Mr Tait has rather al lot of axes to grind, so I would hardly take is opinion as worthy.
E.G Soccer's highest world cup goal score is Miro Klose morn in now polish Silesia that had been German from day dot till 1945. Ethnic German played for Germany
it doesn't matter where you are born if you are a citizen. It is NATIONAL team. it represents the the STATE, hence the sing an NATIONAL anthem, not s song of the the rugby education system
Unfortunately citizenship is dictated at a national level, so using it for representation has just led to citizenship being handed out by. Residency qualification has been set at the time period most European and Anglosphere countries set as their citizenship by residency level for this reason. It essentially done in citizenship lines but can't be gamed by somewhere like Qatar getting a team instantly by sending 30 South Africans a brown envelope and a citizenship certificate.
@@DoddyIshamel what a pile of rubbish. All European countries have a string process of lineage or marriage. You just spouting the UK bs. They used soccer and the Arab countries trying it with Brazilian players... How many world cups have the UAE won.
I think you'll find all countries that uses blood right were happy. But at the time they didn't have equal representation at the IRB that had 3 Welsh reps, so when they lied about Welsh grandparents charvis and howarth et al they brought in residency qualification.
It is old British empire cultural imperialism.
@thephantomstranger4073 2 European countries outside Britain and Ireland play rugby at the top level. France and Italy. France has a direct 5 year residency requirement identical to Britain and Ireland which is what the residency rules in rugby are built on. Italy has variable time frame (4-10 years) depending where you come from. The other European countries that qualified for WC; Portugal 5 years residency (or even 5 year visa). Spain 2-10 years residency depending where from. Romania 8 years residency but halved for people like professional rugby players. Georgia 10 years residency but has the presidential decree so beloved of gulf states. So in every nation at least some people can get citizenship in the same or less time than the residency period and only in Italy and Spain would some incoming rugby players take longer.
Why talk nonsense when it's easy to check.
Literally dozens of Olympic gold medals have been by people gifted citizenship. It's endemic. Very smart of you to pick football, the one sport (well, bon US sport) where international representation is not the money spinner as your terrible example.
@@DoddyIshamel you should check you facts residency qualification was brought it to cover Wales cheating... Funny how the punished Spain... The biggest tragedy was the merging of Fira with the corrupt IRB.
@@DoddyIshamel and anyway soon rugby will have to accept Olympic qualification rules if the want to continue in the Olympics.
So irrespective of grandparents rule if you hold citizenship you'll be able to play 7s and then 15s
I like the use of who they played for in the youth levels that where they were born, you always have guys like Kyle Rowe who was born down south, but I believe both parents are Scottish and went to school in Scotland, certainly got a Scottish accent. In the UK where there are no borders between the nations it’s obviously more common than most other rugby countries to see families move internally for work. Scotland certainly run an extensive exiles program to capture players like that who qualify through parentage, obviously a few examples for wales but also Tom Roebuck and Bevan Rodd for England were born in Scotland, but England age grade players.
Anyway I like this way of covering nationality and not judging purely on birth, hope you enjoy the games and you got to get over here one year and soak it up a bit, I am sure there would be followers happy to help arrange tickets, I could lend you a kilt as well, no need to do the ‘true Scotsman’ though.
Hoho a kilt might be a bit next level! I might need to bust out the family tree to see how many of my own roots trace back to Scotland!