Why Orthodox Christians Reject the Immaculate Conception
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2024
- #orthodox #orthodoxchristianity #bible #jesus #christianity #christ #jesuschrist #trinity #theotokos #motherofgod #mary #virginmary #saints #catholic #catholicchurch #immaculateconception
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One does not make Jesus unclean by touching Him. Jesus makes you clean by touching you.
When a women touched Jesus cloth she was healed. And when she did it he said " it's not that my cloth healed you. It's the faith you had that did"
@@va1k When Jesus healed the leper, or the man at the fountain, before he did heal them, both of those men expressed their faith in Jesus. Faith and consent thereby is a prerequisite for Jesus to heal as he will not force himself upon anyone.
Mary believed she was going to be carrying the son of God before she became pregnant with Jesus, so she has faith in Jesus fun the beginning, therefore his close proximity to her, being inside her womb, could redeem her from any sin and make her a viable bearer of "God in the flesh".
@@mozphet3030 exactly
Indeed , he cleaned her
Beautifully put
Correction: Catholics don’t believe Mary NEEDED to be immaculately conceived (as that has illogical implications of its own) but rather that The Triune God found it “fitting” to come in that way.
I find the difference to be like as if God had given Moses the Ark of the OLD Covenant PRE Made, ex nihilo, by His own hand, delivered by angels, as apposed to the synergistic collaboration between God and Israel’s finest craftsmen, as scripture actually describes. But, no, Orthodox believe her purification into the Ark of the NEW Covenant was a similar synergistic process.
Regardless, your doctrine is an avoidable mistake based on a much older innocent mistake by Saint Augustine that he made due to not being able to read Greek and only having a poor early draft of the Vulgate to work with, full of errors. But the cultural effects of his mistake were so pervasive in the west that just doubling down on the error was easier than admitting they had been getting a subtle yet critical aspect of Adam’s Sin slightly off.
How does the trinity find anything "fitting" like God isn't omnipotent? It was the plan of God for our salvation, it's like saying John the Baptist was a nice accident. He was prophesied and had Holy spirit even in his mother's womb. Catholicism is heresie so however they state is is still wrong
@@DeadPool---- He found it fitting and so he made it happen. God finding something fitting doesn’t mean he didnt know about it. He must have always found it fitting. Dont try looking for logical issues where there aren’t any
@mx_moi1964 it's not a logical issue.... anna couldn't make kids, who do you think let them have kids so then they would give it to God in the temple so that the plan can continue? It wasn't "convenient" or luck that a passionless woman was born. Again the same happened with John the Baptist it wasn't luck, his mother couldn't make kids but God gave the kid. If God just watched there would be Noone because they couldn't have kids without a miracle. It's not hard to understand fertility really
@@DeadPool---- first of all, we know nothing about Mary’s parents, this whole temple stuff, it’s all hearsay and folklore. If it was important God would have made sure it was in the Bible
Angel Gabriel calls her κεχαριτωμένη in Luke 1:28 Kecharitōmenē. This Greek word has no exact translation in Latin, nor English. It is a conjugation, extension of three words.
χαριτοω (charitoo) "Grace", μένη (mene) (passive participle) and κε (ke) (prefix of χαριτοω which means it is in perfect tense).
The angel is not telling her she is receiving grace (much less "favor" as some translations say) in that particular moment, but that she is (passive participle) made graceful, fully, in past present and future (perfect tense). It's a quality of her being. She is blessed among all women. In vulgar latin translations it was usually translated as gratia plena/full of grace.
This word Kecharitōmenē had never been used in Greek literature before this moment and wouldn't be used again until the V century. The author of Luke coined the term and meant it literally.
Remember that “Grace” is undeserved divine help, gifted for free by God to someone so that person can better respond to His calls. Having such an absolute divine help, in past present and future, implies no sin whatsoever, otherwise it would not have been truly gratia plena.
Perfectly stated. If one takes the revealed words of the scripture to their fullest and absolute understanding, one cannot escape it.
For if she is FULL of Grace, that can only mean there is no Grace that is lacking in her. And also take into account that she is deemed "Blessed among women". That is, she is singular among all women in history, and particularly among the biblical women in which the context lies.
That means that she is superior in Grace, her Grace is fuller, than that given to Elizabeth, or Ruth, or Sarah, or Judith... And yes, even higher than the Grace bestowed on Eve, for she alone is blessed among all of them, even Eve.
How then, could Eve receive the Grace of being made without sin, but not her, the Most Holy Mother of God, who is FULL of Grace and Blessed amongst all Women? How could she, the New Eden, the New Ark of the Covenant, the New Holy of Holies, the Palace of Honour where the Alliance between men and God was accomplished, receive a lesser Grace than that of Eve? Untenable!
excellent comment. It bothers me that certain catholic bibles go with the "favored one" translation instead of "full of grace".
Yes. I don't see how anyone can deny that Mary was created in a state of grace, which is what the immaculate conception means.
But it goes against Scripture to believe any human other then Yeshua was sinless. No person is good not one. That is why Yeshua had to become sin to give us Righteousness
@@moloney_overall71 Protestant alert
Correction: We Ethiopian Orthodox also believe in the immaculate
conception of virgin mary.
Edit:sorry If I misled some people but the immaculate conception of virgin mary is only Roman Catholic's dogma😅😅😅 not ours
I beg you pray to God that he guide you to his chruch and i beg you read the chruch history and the teachings of the church ☦️
Amen 🙏🏽
@@SuuukmaI pray God serves your soul and you pray for all, for in Christ we are saved. I pray you repent your unfounded righteousness
@@SuuukmaNot read the Bible…? How would God show anyone Who He is and who we are to Him? Open that book… it will save your soul. ❤
@@thewayteacher the bible (which the world received from the Catholic Church) doesn't save you. Jesus with His Sacraments through the Church save you if you obey Jesus' commandments. Mk 16:16 start with that
but the reason why this is wrong is because when Mary was born it wasn't because of her parents having holy intentions it was an immaculate conception because God chose her to be fit to give birth to the savior
Why did she die a natural death? And why haven't God did that with other people too since it's not exclusive to Jesus?
@@eurocrime8992brother I genuinely don't know how to respond because I think that you're drunk. Either that or you speak very poor English.
I've noticed this however in every last person that has any sort of questioning about the immaculate conception or any criticism of Mary has the holy Theotokos, that usually comes into an incoherent rbling of sorts. I seriously wonder if this is a form of prelest and spiritual deception.
I come to find this also stems from a lack of understanding of Catholic apologetics.
You are correct- in that it was God's grace and not human works that Mary was chosen.
You are wong- in that it was "immaculate" conception.
@@cuntdracula1
Are the questions here incoherant
Or
Are the objections due to ignorance? 😂
Make up your mind. 😅
@@eurocrime8992As Catholics, we believe Mary was assumed bodily into heaven.
Luke 11:27-28
As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!” But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
Because of this reason we should love her n respect her as she believes and follow God's words, ahe ia pure so that chosen to become mother of God🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
This is precisely what happened. Not only did she hear the word of God through the angel Gabriel. The Word made flesh through her.
Amen I always use this verse lol
@johnp8354 one mediator for salvation yes
"Dispassionate conception" is disturbing on so many levels. It contradicts one of God's most important purposes in the procreative act within marriage.
I agree. I think the Catholic position makes way more sense. The body and it's functions are not evil and I don't see how pleasureless sex would be more holy and honorable.
@auspicions if it's not for pleasure only for reproduction then nobody would commit sexual immorality. Why do you think young people do it before marriage?
What I find even more disturbing is us being preoccupied by what happens between other people's sheets. Saints included.
@auspicionsyou can’t have sex without pleasure. Sex in itself is pleasurable, even in the procreation sense. Have you read the book of Proverbs or Song of Solomon? Or read the epistles of Paul? Nowhere in scripture do we see a separation of the two.
Hod can do what he wants. He made Adam & Eve without a procreative act.
So that thought doesn’t stand.
Also, Mary and Joseph took vows of chastity. God chose and made Mary perfect in virtue, but still had free will which she chose to be obedient in all things.
You can’t put Hod in a box. The Ark of the Covenant and its holiness and perfection made by God is the pre-figure ment and the fulfillment of the O.C. to the N.C.
So Mary is more holy because her parents had emotionless sex? That's just weird.
Nobody said "more holy" the passions (often referred to as the flesh) were simply not present at Mary's conception.
I am orthodox and I don’t believe this
@@yoshi999z7 then you aren't orthodox, you either accept all of the church's teachings and are an Orthodox Christian, or you are a protestant and come up with your own dogmas.
@@levitatingpotato109 nope I am a Coptic orthodox through and through and I love our hymns, our language, our prayers, our church fathers teachings but I disagree with some useless baseless takes that have no effect whatsoever on my faith or my relationship with God or the church, the thought that the Virgin Mary must have come in the way described in the short is nothing short of ridiculous and has no biblical standing whatsoever.
@@yoshi999z7 so like I said, not orthodox.
“Hail Mary, full of Grace.”- Gabriel
Who is the source of the Grace?
Book, chapter, verse?
@@bluigimercury Lk 1:28. Specifically the title, κεχαριτωμένη.
@@StanleyPinchak that part that reads "Χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη (Chaire kecharitōmenē)" in Luke 1:28 translates to "Greetings, [you] favoured with grace" basically, the Angel Gabriel is referring to her as one who has had (past tense of the root word 'charito' is used) favour bestowed upon her. And it's simply that.
@@bluigimercury Not merely favor, but grace. Yes, the same grace received in baptismal regeneration. See ἐχαρίτωσεν in Eph 1:6.
“Unto the praise of the glory of his grace, in which he hath graced us in his beloved son.” (Eph 1:6, DRV)
As a Catholic I believe in the Immaculate Conception as we agree that Mary is the Mother of God. God chose Mary from the begenning of time as is mentioned in the old Testament. Mary carried Jesus for Nine months in her womb, we say Mary was the Tabernacle of Jesus for Nine months. God kept Mary Immaculate, she was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit - God and Jesus lived in the womb of Mary without sin. Also Mary had appeared in Lourdes and Rue De bac in Paris and said "I am the Immaculate Conception" Hail Mary full of Grace, Ave Maria 🙏
Yet there is no scriptural evidence for this, she is a human like the rest of us, a sinner. She was chosen as the mother of Jesus because she was a fierce woman who feared God in the first place and also to fulfill the prophecy that Jesus would come in the linage of king David.
@@miguelfelix599 God chose Mary before time began. If you believe Jesus is God, you could say that Jesus chose the greatest mother ever created, and was concieved without sin as nothing is impossible to God.
In the old Testament:
Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Emmanuel." this was written the 8th century before Christ.
The Angel Gabriel was God's ambassador and said to Mary 'Greetings, favoured one! The Lord is with you." Mary is the favoured one.
On the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a town in Galilee called Nazareth, to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. And he came to her and said, ‘Greetings, favoured one! The Lord is with you.’ But she was much perplexed by his words and pondered what sort of greeting this might be. The angel said to her, ‘Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favour with God. And now, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you will name him Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his ancestor David. He will reign over the house of Jacob for ever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.’ Mary said to the angel, ‘How can this be, since I am a virgin?’ The angel said to her, ‘The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called Son of God. And now, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month for her who was said to be barren. For nothing will be impossible with God.’ Then Mary said, ‘Here am I, the servant of the Lord; let it be with me according to your word."
Mary is the mother and servant of God and Jesus said to John from the Cross " Son behold your Mother" This has been the teaching of the Catholic Church since the time of Jesus. We honour Mary as the Mother of our Saviour.
Ave Maria. 🙏
@@declancronin437 All you did was point out one scripture that doesn't have to do anything with the doctrine, everything else is made up. Mary the mother of Jesus was described by God as “highly favored” (Luke 1:28). The phrase highly favored comes from a single Greek word, which essentially means “much grace.” Mary received God’s grace.
The virgin Mary, by God’s grace, recognized that she needed the Savior. The Bible never says that Mary was anyone but an ordinary human whom God chose to use in an extraordinary way. Yes, Mary was a righteous woman and favored (graced) by God (Luke 1:27-28). At the same time, Mary was a sinful human being who needed Jesus Christ as her Savior, just like everyone else (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 6:23; 1 John 1:8).
The virgin Mary did not have an “immaculate conception.” The Bible doesn’t suggest Mary’s birth was anything but a normal human birth. Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus (Luke 1:34-38), but she was not a virgin permanently. The idea of the perpetual virginity of Mary is unbiblical. Matthew 1:25, speaking of Joseph, declares, “But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave Him the name Jesus.” The word until clearly indicates that Joseph and Mary did have normal sexual relations after Jesus was born. Mary remained a virgin until the Savior’s birth, but later Joseph and Mary had several children together. Jesus had four half-brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). Jesus also had half-sisters, although they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:55-56). God blessed and graced Mary by giving her several children, which in that culture was accepted as the clearest indication of God’s blessing on a woman.
One time when Jesus was speaking, a woman in the crowd proclaimed, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed” (Luke 11:27). There was never a better opportunity for Jesus to declare that Mary was indeed worthy of praise and adoration. What was Jesus’ response? “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it” (Luke 11:28). To Jesus, obedience to God’s Word was more important than being the woman who gave birth to the Savior.
Nowhere in Scripture does Jesus or anyone else direct any praise, glory, or adoration toward Mary. Elizabeth, Mary’s relative, praised Mary in Luke 1:42-44, but her praise is based on the blessing of giving birth to the Messiah. It was not based on any inherent glory in Mary. In fact, after this Mary spoke a song of praise to the Lord, extoling His mindfulness to those of humble state and His mercy and faithfulness (Luke 1:46-55).
Many believe that Mary was one of Luke’s sources for the writing of his Gospel (see Luke 1:1-4). Luke records the angel Gabriel visiting Mary and telling her that she would give birth to a son who would be the Savior. Mary was unsure how this could be since she was a virgin. When Gabriel told her that the child would be conceived by the Holy Spirit, Mary answered, "I am the Lord’s servant. . . . May your word to me be fulfilled. Then the angel left her" (Luke 1:38). Mary responded with belief and a willingness to submit to God’s plan. We, too, should have such faith in God and trustingly follow Him.
In describing the events of Jesus’ birth and the response of those who heard the shepherds’ message about Jesus, Luke writes, "But Mary treasured up all these things, pondering them in her heart" (Luke 2:19). When Joseph and Mary presented Jesus at the temple, Simeon recognized that Jesus was the Savior and gave God praise. Joseph and Mary marveled at what Simeon had said. Simeon also told Mary, "Behold, this child is appointed for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is opposed (and a sword will pierce through your own soul also), so that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed" (Luke 2:34-35).
Another time at the temple, when Jesus was twelve, Mary was upset that Jesus had remained behind when His parents had left for Nazareth. They were distressed in looking for Him. When they found Him, still in the temple, He said He must be in His Father’s house (Luke 2:49). Jesus returned to Nazareth with His earthly parents and submitted to them. We are told, again, that Mary "treasured up all these things in her heart" (Luke 2:51). Raising Jesus must have been a perplexing endeavor yet also filled with precious moments, perhaps memories that became more poignant as Mary came to more fully understand who Jesus is. We, too, can treasure in our hearts the knowledge of God and the memories of His activity in our lives.
It was Mary who requested Jesus’ intervention at the wedding of Cana, where He performed His first miracle and turned water into wine. Even though Jesus seemingly rebuffed her at first, Mary instructed the servants to do what He told them. She had faith in Him (John 2:1-11).
Later in Jesus’ public ministry, His family grew concerned. Mark 3:20-21 records, "The crowd gathered again, so that they could not even eat. And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for they were saying, 'He is out of his mind.'" When His family arrived, Jesus proclaimed that it is those who do the will of God who are His family. Jesus’ brothers did not believe in Him prior to the crucifixion, but at least two of them did afterward-James and Jude (Judas), the authors of the New Testament books bearing their names.
Mary did seem to believe in Jesus throughout His life. She was present at the cross when Jesus died (John 19:25), no doubt feeling the “sword” that Simeon had prophesied would pierce her soul. It was there at the cross that Jesus asked John to serve as Mary’s son, and John took Mary into his home (John 19:26-27). Mary was also with the apostles on the day of Pentecost (Acts 1:14). However, Mary is never mentioned again after Acts chapter 1.
The apostles did not give Mary a prominent role. Mary’s death is not recorded in the Bible. Nothing is said about Mary ascending to heaven or having an exalted role there. As the earthly mother of Jesus, Mary should be respected, but she is not worthy of our worship or adoration.
The Bible nowhere indicates that Mary can hear our prayers or that she can mediate for us with God. Jesus is our only advocate and mediator in heaven (1 Timothy 2:5). If offered worship, adoration, or prayers, Mary would say the same as the angels: “Worship God!” (see Revelation 19:10; 22:9.) Mary herself sets the example for us, directing her worship, adoration, and praise to God alone: “My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for He has been mindful of the humble state of His servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed, for the Mighty One has done great things for me - holy is His name” (Luke 1:46-49).
Yea sorry no, first iff, Mary isn’t an angel or God, she doesn’t just appear to people as she pleases😂. The echo paganism is strong in Catholic beliefs to even think that.
Second, Mary needed Jesus as much as the rest of us. There is nothing anywhere in scripture or that’s as taught that Mary was free from sin
Who even says that while apearring like this? Its like she came to say what catholics wanted to hear fir 50 years
I’m Roman Catholic, but I find your channel very interesting! I like learning more about my Orthodox brethren and the Orthodox belief. You have beautiful churches, and your masses are something else.
A message to all fellow Christians. Pride is a sin you can have, even applying it to religious beliefs. This comment section is an example of the pharisaical spirit. Regardless, of the true interpretation of Mary or other religious beliefs, it isn't prudent to throw the term heretic around. Every Christian religious video I have watched on TH-cam contains animosity and accusation that is unwarranted. I hope that people trying to evangelize in comment sections also participate in prudent evangelization in real life.
It’s soo unnecessary to be honest. Jesus never intended salvation to be complex to inherit the kingdom of God. I don’t why we fuzz over unnecessary stuff
yea. its because denominations and stuff@@simba8665
YES thats what these Catholics do all the time. they always say blasphemer and heretic every time you dong agree with them there so prideful, im not saying its just them but 70% yea
@@simba8665 \
Because you reductionists will take the divine out of Jesus.
@@simba8665 AMERICAN PROTESTANTS are NOT CHRISTIANS. THEY ARE UNBAPTISED PAGANS
O Mary conceived without sin pray for us sinners who have recourse to thee.
Why are you praying to Mary? She is not God she cannot answer your prayers.
Do you ask moses or any other saint to pray for you aswell?
This is why Catholics are wrong. Believe what you want about Mary I guess but pray to the Father as Jesus did,In Jesus name, amen.
Stay strong
@@queenr8216learn english.
I am Greek Orthodox and I believe in the immaculate conception of our Holy Mother. If you read the scripture in ancient Greek you will realize that the greeting of the Archangel shows that She is the immaculate conception!
No she’s not. Mary conceived with Joseph and not only that if the immaculate conception is true then why does the Bible call jesus the son of Joseph? Or that he is “of the seed of David”. God chose Mary and Joseph to lay down and have sex to make jesus. Where Catholics get things twisted is you all believe sex is a sin but it’s not. In the very first book of the Bible the very first commandment of the Bible is “be fruitful and multiply” and a commandment can’t be a sin. Not only that but back in ancient Israelite culture the if a man enters a woman’s womb they are husband and wife according to the scripture. Mary is not to be worshipped for she was called by god to north Jesus Christ. There is only ONE god and he didn’t need Mary or Joseph that’s what HE chose he is the MOST HIGH GOD.
@@woahthere8433where do Catholics say sex is a sin? Answer: they said sex between a husband and wife is the only permissible sex. In the Bible we see that it is the Holy Spirit that fills Mary and overshadows her not at Joseph
@@christopherwitkowski2322 if Mary and Joseph didn’t conceive then how was Jesus of the house of David?
@@christopherwitkowski2322 not only that but if Jesus didn’t have a biological father then why did the Bible call Jesus the son of Joseph?
@@woahthere8433 because Mary is also of the house of David, and Joseph is still Jesus foster dad.
Saint Augustine of Hippo (4th c.) taught that no sin whatsoever should ever be mentioned when speaking of the Blessed Virgin Mary on account of the Lord's honor.
That don't say that she's sinless the saint saying not to mention a sin she did for the lord's honor.. no one is without sin that's why we all needed the salvation of the lord
@@نهضةالروحالقدسno, St. Augustine explicitly says that she is sinless. You are misreading the old language.
@@نهضةالروحالقدسMary still needed saving even though she was born without sin. In fact, her immaculate conception was a product of the cross.
@@carsonianthegreat4672
You're free to believe whatever you want brother I choose to believe the bible : "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" none is sinless none is unblemished except the lord only
@@carsonianthegreat4672 Why did she need saving if she had no sin? She'd be righteous then.
I am Catholic and for me the reason why it makes sense for her to have no sin is because sin is death, God is life, something of life can’t come out of something of death, you know what I mean
Where is the biblical text for that reason. You are putting human reasoning on God. He chose Mary for her faithfulness
@@christianmoore7932 of course I’m giving human reasoning, should I give animal reasoning instead? I’m just saying what seems pretty logical to me, also, there is no scripture saying that God chose Mary specifically for her faith
@@christianmoore7932 Does Luke 1:28 in your Bible have "Hail Mary, Decently-Guarnished with Faith" written on it? Must be a new version.
But Mary died.... The wages of sin is death. She was a sinner just like the rest of us. As for Jesus, the power is in the blood. We all get our blood from our fathers. Not our mothers. Modern science proves that Mary did not have to be sinless for Christ to be pure.
@@BetterYet in Catholicism, we believe she didn’t die at all, that Jesus had her ascend to heaven without death similar to Enoch in genesis, Enoch was favored by God, he was saved, Mary was favored by God, she was saved, makes sense doesn’t it
I am so blessed to be Catholic, thank you Lord.
Metoo. From New Zealand 🇳🇿🙏📿🇳🇿❤️🇺🇸😊 God Bless America
Random lol
Until you study how corrupt Vatican is lol
😬
Hell fire for you
No properly catechized Catholic thinks the immaculate conception was absolutely necessary. It was just absolutely fitting and proper. I also don’t know why we would think that sex without an aspect of the human person, namely emotion, makes something holier. The Glory of God is man fully alive and that includes the redemption of our emotions. We were made from an act of intense love, not dispassionate pleasure. This is so sad.
My first thought! I was considering converting to orthodoxy. This "dispassionate intercourse" makes my spirit recoil!
Dispassionate union isn’t a type of act. It occurs between dispassionate people. It doesn’t exclude love.
@@wendymoran6759can u explain for dummies? If u dont mind i dont understand the context fully..
Dispassionate conception doesn't mean that we believe emotions are bad, but the particular passions that are manifestations of sinful desires of our fallen nature which lead us away from God if we yield to them instead of his commandments, lust is also one of these passions. That concept about Mary's parents implies that they simply had a procreative act out of will to make new life without lustful desires in their heart
Our sinful desires weren't redeemed to the point that they are no longer sinful, our natute is still fallen and we are still capabale of sin. True love can still exist without a sinful passion, in fact this is what original type of human love was untill our fall, God has made us in this sinless love and we were meant to inherit it too, which we have a chance to do now that Christ has died and risen for us. Lust and many other "natural" passions is only part of our fallen nature and not of God's image inside of us which we are called to restore. So I don't understand what's so sad about people trying to get rid of their impurity to restore the beauty inside of us, yes sex without passion makes it hollier and it works on many other things too
There were also many cases of such conception without a sin in the Bible besides Mary's parents
in the 16th-18th centuries in Russia, the confession of the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was widespread. This was taught, for example, by Hegumen Ioannikios Holiatsky (2), Archbishop Lazarus Baranovich of Chernihiv (3), Theodosius of Chernihiv, Anthony Radzivillovsky, Varlaam Yasinetsky, Stefan Yavorsky. Professors of the Kiev Theological Academy, founded to combat Catholic influence, solemnly pledged to defend this doctrine, and students established societies in honor of the Immaculate Conception of the Mother of God
Hmmm... seems like Protestantism in the west has a longer history than this doctrine in Russia - doesnt make either of them correct.
The Immaculate Conception was mentioned in Summa Theologica by St. Thomas Aquinas, 13th century.
@@MAMRetro It was also proclaimed by Angel Gabriel in Lk 1:28. Look up what the title he gives to Mary actually means.
@CroElectroStyle - Then what caused that early doctrine to change, do you know?
Ironically, St Thomas Aquinas was against the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception.
Before it was defined, the Dominicans were praying that he would be allowed to be right and not John Duns Scotus, who argued that it was possible.
Nah. If Mary was a virgin, then her womb was sexually undefiled, so was therefore worthy to birth Jesus. She doesn’t have to be completely sinless, in fact there’s no scriptural evidence that she was.
So normal sexual activity is so evil that it defiles the womb? Weird.
Amen. And if Mary needed to be sinless to house Jesus for 9 months, then what does that say about every Christian who houses the Holy Spirit with temple bodies? Surely we aren’t now arguing that we are all without sin. The logic doesn’t track. Best to not use human logic to fill in scriptural gaps in the first place. God has made known what He wanted us to know and we are not to add to His word with human wisdom. Trust God alone thru Christ alone. Amen.
Even though I am a Catholic Christian (Latin Rite) and believe in the Immaculate Conception of our Heaven Mother, I can respect and understand the Eastern Fathers' intentions. Honestly, Mary was chosen by God, chose to say yes to God's perfect will to bring Jesus in the world. No matter if it is Immaculate Conception or Dispassionate Conception, God the Father chose to set her apart to bring God the Son in world. She couldn't just be any woman that was sinful. She had to say 'yes' to the perfect will of God to be able to call Hail Mary Full of Grace! I can not accept any Protestant view which falls short everytime! Blessings my Eastern brothers and sisters! May our God keep y'all strong!
Yes, and thank you for that dose of wisdom ❣️
“My soul rejoices in God my SAVIOR.”
Luke 1:47.
Mary was a sinner grateful for a savior.
If you are Catholic you are told what to believe. I do not know the Pope's view in this but you can't have a biblical interpretation different from him
it matters if it's immaculate conception or dispassionate conception. Immaculate conception assumes it's God who kept Mary without sin. Also, Immaculate conception is dogma. I don't know if you can say "it doesn't matter whether it was this or that". We believe it w a s the Immaculate Conception, period. I feel like your comment starts to slide into sin of heresy, kind of. Wishing you all the graces and also to our eastern brothers, a safe comeback home. God bless!
Catholics aren't Christians, they're Catholics.
Christians know Jesus Christ is the only way.
Catholics believe anything the man in the cool hat tells them to believe.
There is one God and one intercessor between God and man, the Man Christ Jesus.
Amen
Except for all the Christians you've ever asked to pray for you or offered to pray for, right? That would have to mean you don't believe in intercession as a whole except Jesus...
It's the same thing. If someone asks me to pray for them or I ask them to pray for me, both are allowed. Saying you can't ask a saint to pray for you because Christ is the one mediator between God and man is an argument against all intercession except Christ's. That's this issue@hishenmathurin2844
They mean intercessory prayer, not being our Sacrifice for sins like Jesus. Ironically the passage Protestants get "there is one mediator between God and man" asks, in the very first verse, for the intercessory prayers of Christians. The Apostles also asked others to pray for them. That's the intercession meant here, not being the Sacrifice for sins like Jesus.
God purified her because she is His holy temple
As an orthodox church follower we believe that Saint Marry the mother of God is free from all the original sin that was passing from generation to generation, Marry the mother of God is conceived without sin 🥰🥰🥰
she is full of grace. she is the new ark of the covenant. if you look at the detailed description of the ark in the OT, it is clear on how clean and pure the dwelling place for God is. How much more pure and great is the Mother of our Lord for she bore Christ in her heart since the immaculate conception! and of course bore Him in her womb. how wonderful is the work of Our Lord in our Lady!
That paganism Jesus is the way the truth and the life no man get to the father except through him also Mary did not remain a virgin
@@Trollcusbad Mark 6:3
“Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.”
@@Trollcusbad there is no mother god .. Only FATHER SON AND HOLY SPIRIT. Mother god or goddess comes from PAGAN culture and belief . Please do your research both Greek Orthodox and catholic are PAGAN religions as well as any other religion that uses mother god father god and son of god
@@Trollcusbad Mary CANT save or help you only JESUS CHRIST . John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
@@Trollcusbad do your research Luke 1:36
36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren
Orthodox Saints and the Early Church fathers teach something that sounds suspiciously like the immaculate conception, but don't use that name for it.
Pope declares it a dogma
Orthodox: no, we never believed this.
Nobody taught that. This is delusion
Any saints name who taught it???
Orthodox Immaculate Conception:
The patriarch Photius. In his first homily on the Annunciation, he says that Mary was sanctified ek Brephous. This is not an easy term to translate; the primary meaning of Brephos is that of a child in the embryonic state. Ek means origin or starting point. The phrase seems to me to mean not that Mary was sanctified in the embryonic state, that is to say, during her existence in her mother’s womb, but that she was sanctified from the moment of her existence as an embryo, from the very first moment of her formation - therefore - from the moment of her conception. (1)
A contemporary and opponent of Photius, the monk Theognostes, wrote in a homily for the feast of the Dormition, that Mary was conceived by “a sanctifying action”, ex arches - from the beginning. It seems to me that this ex arches exactly corresponds to the “in primo instanti“ of Roman theology. (2)
St Euthymes, patriarch of Constantinople (+917), in the course of a homily on the conception of St Anne (that is to say, on Mary’s conception by Anne and Joachim) said that it was on this very day (touto semerou) that the Father fashioned a tabernacle (Mary) for his Son, and that this tabernacle was “fully sanctified” (kathagiazei). There again we find the idea of Mary’s sanctification in primo instanti conceptionis. (3)
Gregory Palamas, archbishop of Thessalonica and doctor of the hesychasm (+1360) in his 65 published Mariological homilies, developed an entirely original theory about her sanctification. On the one hand, Palamas does not use the formula “immaculate conception” because he believes that Mary was sanctified long before the “primus instans conceptionis“, and on the other, he states quite as categorically as any Roman theologian that Mary was never at any moment sullied by the stain of original sin. Palamas’ solution to the problem, of which as far as we know, he has been the sole supporter, is that God progressively purified all Mary’s ancestors, one after the other and each to a greater degree than his predecessor so that at the end, eis telos, Mary was able to grow, from a completely purified root, like a spotless stem “on the limits between created and uncreated”. (4)
The Emperor Manuel II Paleologus (+1425) also pronounced a homily on the Dormition. In it, he affirms in precise terms Mary’s sanctification in primo instanti. He says that Mary was full of grace “from the moment of her conception” and that as soon as she began to exist … there was no time when Jesus was not united to her”. We must note that Manuel was no mere amateur in theology. He had written at great length on the procession of the Holy Spirit and had taken part in doctrinal debates during his journeys in the West. One can, therefore, consider him as a qualified representative of the Byzantine theology of his time. (5)
George Scholarios (+1456), the last Patriarch of the Byzantine Empire, has also left us a homily on the Dormition and an explicit affirmation of the Immaculate Conception. He says that Mary was “all pure from the first moment of her existence” (gegne theion euthus). (6)
Cyril Lukaris (+1638). He too gave a sermon on the Dormition of Our Lady. He said that Mary “was wholly sanctified from the very first moment of her conception (ole egiasmene en aute te sullepsei) when her body was formed and when her soul was united to her body”; and further on he writes: “As for the Panaghia, who is there who does not know that she is pure and immaculate, that she was a spotless instrument, sanctified in her conception and her birth, as befits one who is to contain the One whom nothing can contain?” (7)
Gerasimo, patriarch of Alexandria (+1636), taught at the same time. according to the Chronicle of the Greek, Hypsilantis, that the Theotokos “was not subject to the sin of our first father” (ouk npekeito to propatopiko hamarte mati); and a manual of dogmatic theology of the same century, written by Nicholas Coursoulas (+1652) declared that “the soul of the Holy Virgin was made exempt from the stain of original sin from the first moment of its creation by God and union with the body.” (8)
It was after the Bull of Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus, of 8 December, 1854, that the greater part of the Greek Church seems to have turned against belief in the Immaculate Conception. Yet, in 1855, the Athenian professor, Christopher Damalas, was able to declare: “We have always held and always taught this doctrine. This point is too sacred to give rise to quarrels and it has no need of a deputation from Rome”. (9)
😂 we must rub our beards and deny this.
@@thegoatofyoutube1787 and I mean no hate or disrespect by pointing this out I just have a friend who wrote a thesis on this point and like the filioque many Fathers and Orthodox Saints either supported it or said things that sound very similar, but now individuals within Orthodox circles will tie their beards in knots trying to dispute these things or put words in the mouths of long dead saints as to what they really meant.
Hail Mary, full of grace, the lord is with thee. Blessed are thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus. Mary, mother of Jesus, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen🙏🏻❤️✝️🙇🏻🛐☝🏻🙌🏻☀️
Be silent Jezeb3l
@@TheApostelicPrincess AWAY FROM ME SATAN!😡🙏🏻❤️✝️🙇🏻🛐🙌🏻☀️
@@BadNewsBarrettBNB AWAY FROM ME SATAN!😡🙏🏻❤️✝️🙇🏻🛐🙌🏻☀️
amen thats a demon right there@@vibhuti-3895
MOST HOLY THEOTOKOS - GLORY TO THEE!+++
Why would Mary be without sin. It would contradict the Bible. God works through normal people and circumstances. He wasn’t born in a royal family or in a palace. No in a crib between animals. The lowest of the lowest. Jesus was man in the flesh and God. He knows our troubles and temptations.
Bible never talks about worshipping Mary or saints. Only Jesus needs to be worshipped. Bible is very clear and we don’t need to add words to it.
“I am the immaculate conception” - Our Lady of Lourdes
“O Mary, conceived without sin, Pray for us who have recoursed to Thee” - Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal
Romans 3:23 For all have fallen short of the glory of God
@@swaggerdagger_101including the human Christ? Come on, man!!
@@bajone02 Christ is God so, no
@@bajone02 Mark 10:18 Why do you call me good? No one is good but God
@@swaggerdagger_101 Spitting facts mate, these fools quote humans while you quote the Bible, the difference is clear to me
She is the Immaculate Conception. Amen
She said as much to St. Bernadette. Case closed.
Islam is the truth
@@Raminiomlol, you mean religion that is based on a bunch of fabricated and stolen stories from different cultures? No thanks
@@Raminiom misapprpriated information, twisted, and corrupted from Christianity. I am sorry to have to tell you that.
@@sissybrooks8588 The similarity of the Bible and the Qur’an in some things does not mean that Qur'an misappropriated the bible, but rather they are similar because they are from the same God, and your book is corrupted and contains contradictions, errors, and obscene words. If you want me to mention some of them, I will mention them.
There’s nothing in Scripture that teaches us sexual passion within marriage is unholy or vile. I’m fact, when looking at marriage through a Biblical lens, one would discover that a lack of passion & intimacy between the husband and wife can be considered sinful.
Every sexual act for the sake of pleasure is lust. Youre just a degenerate that wants the bible to justify your perversity. The fall maculated sexual relation with lust, and is what Augustine, Tertulian and Origen had been saying since the first centuries of christianity.
This is why I like Catholic theology
When that's the truth why Catholics converting to Islam in mass??? My country was 500 years under Ottoman Empire and we never give up on our Lord Jesus Christ.We build our Churches in forests,we were massacred for our beliefs but we never give up on our God.Wich ideology is stronger and more pure my brother in Christ,think about that?
Nuh uh the true church still has highest number of Christians 🙏✝️🇻🇦🙌@@dragicadjuric3635
I don't see how Mary's parents not loving each other makes things any better but ok...
They loved each other purely. Meaning they didn't have sex just out of lust.
Lust isnt love and EVERY sexual act for anything except procreation is a act of lust.
@@shoshishoshi127Bible speaks fondly of passionate love within marriage. Song of Songs/ Song of Solomon is in there for us for a reason.
Interesting. As a Roman Catholic I absolutely disagree. Dispassionate conception is placing God's free grace on the "cleaning" of the sexual impulse of Joachim and Anna, not even on their will. On the contrary, immaculate conception places God's free grace in the humanity of Mary. I feel dispassionate conception is dabbling in gnosticism, honestly.
Jesus Christ is part of God. The bible is the word of God. You don’t need religious to establish a relationship with your creator. Don’t get yourself caught in unnecessary debates
@@simba8665you need the church or you fall into prelest. Protestants don’t even know what that is because they’re knees deep into it
Joachim and Anna are not mentioned in Bible.
Sex is considered as pure thing in Hinduism শৃঙ্গার রস
"Dabbing in gnosticism."
Oof!
Dispassionate Conception makes sense to anyone who’s been married more than 5 years 😂
That's brutal lol
Islam is truth
😂😂❤
@@Raminiomno
@@Abcdefghijajajaja Search in Islam first
I believe Romanian Orthodox Christianity does believe The Virgin Mary was a Virgin at the time of conception and stayed a Virgin even after the birth of the Christ. This in my mind always meant immaculate conception.
That’s the belief of all Orthodox, Easterw and Oriental
As a Catholic, I obviously disagree
But I love that our orthodox brothers also love our blessed mother. Let us both love her
Not irrelevant. Jesus didn't waste his last dying excruciating breaths from the cross saying "this is your mother" for no reason. It isn't in the bible for story-arc purposes of knowing where Mary would live...It is in there for us to understand that every beloved disciple of his would have her as a Mother. It is VITAL. She is our biggest ally in the good fight. She is our model and guide as we seek to become more like her son (as we seek to become ONE with him). Cheers!@taylorrowe2002
We are not brothers
@hishenmathurin2844 Saints are alive in heaven, they are the cloud of witnesses in heaven (HEB 12:1-3). Intercessory prayers are instructed by St. Paul in 1 TIMOTHY 2:1. What does EPHESIANS 6:18 says? MAKING SUPPLICATION FOR ALL THE SAINTS ! Mary is not just a saint, she is the Ark of the New Covenant, The NT Gebirah, Daughter of Zion and the woman of revelation that is why we pray for her protection and intercession.
SUPPLICATION (DEFINITION) - The action of asking or begging for something earnestly or humbly.
EPHESIANS 6:18 Praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,
LUKE 1:28 HAIL FULL OF GRACE
ROMANS 16:6 Salute Mary, who hath laboured much among you.
Saints and angels in heaven interceding for us in REVELATION 4, 5, 6, 8.
"Mediator" is Christ alone in one sense. As intercessors all members are " mediators". according to Catholicism and Scripture:
1- The Church is the body of Christ
2- There is only one body of Christ, not one on earth and another one in heaven.
3- Death does not separate the members of the body.
4- Christians are bound by the Law of Christ to love and pray for one another.
@hishenmathurin2844 Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, while still being the God of the living, not the dead. The bible talks about the people in heaven celebrating when a sinner repents and Moses is prsent at the Transfiguration. People may have physically died but they are alive in Christ.
@taylorrowe2002superbly articulated!
St. John of Damascus says, "O most blessed loins of Joachim from which came forth a spotless seed! O glorious womb of Anne in which a most holy offspring grew.”" (Homily on the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, 2 in PG 96, 663)
"Spotless seed", he says. This means that Mary's conception was pure. The seed is part of the conception. St. John is teaching an immaculate conception
from spotless seed to free from original sin in the instant of conception seems like a stretch
St John of Damascus proved this as the immaculate conception I.e. she herself was immaculately conceived ✝️🕊
@diansc7322 What is the stretch there?
Spotless is Immaculate. Remember he said that before the phrase was used. She was Spotless aka Immaculate so that The Word of God could take that flesh to become man and offer the same for our eternal life.
@@tellthetruth6430St john did not call mary spotless
@@tellthetruth6430 Don’t lean on your own understanding. The Bible says that all have fallen short of the glory of God.
Orthodox church did not reject the doctrine. It simply didn't participate in it since they were not in communion with the Universal Church under the Petrine Ministry. You cannot "reject" something that was not yours or offered to you to start off with. The Greek Rite Catholic churches accepted the doctrine as they were part of the Universal Church. The African orthodox Churches taught the doctrine long before the Universal Church promulgated it. The oriental prayer "Agni Parthene" gives strong hint at the immaculate Conception.
"Agni parthene" is not oriental! It is Greek composed by Nektarios in early 20th century.
@@ΘαλειαΠαπαδοπουλου-λ1θ do you know what you are talking about?
There's no scriptural support for "immaculate conception" or "dispassionate conception." So you subsitute one made-up story for another?
I certainly think a lot of couples experience some level of dispassionate sex and have children with dispassionate conception lol. I wouldn't necessarily think it is a good thing though.
Yeah, God made us to have passion in marriage boundaries. I don’t understand why they paint it to be sinful when it’s not.
@@queenr8216 It's not. God told us/ Adam and Eve to "be fruitful and multiply", so when a loving couple has sex simply for that reason, and not because sex feels good, the inpassionate sex between two lovers is regarded more highly than otherwise.
You are stupid! Desire and lust are passions that came after the fall. St. Anna and St. Joachim have been very holy and spiritual people. They also were very old. There was no passion or lusts or desire. They "came together" as a command from God. And the miracle happened. Because St. Anna could not bear children
@@queenr8216 God did not made us to have passions. Passions are an outcome of the fall.
@@alexpanagiotis4706 Why would I engage with a person which starts his argument by insulting me? That is not a mature way of having a discussion
How sad. There is nothing impure or unrighteous about passionate sex within marriage.
Its not the modern definition of passion. The orthodox define passion essentially the same as sin. So to say that the sex was dispassionate is to say that it was done out of love and not lust.
@@jonf4287
That may be so,
but HOW would another know anyone actually did it like that ?
The whole idea is ludicrous.
It is just a claim without Evidence.
I can CLAIM my cats did it without lust, and I believe it.
Does NOT make it a Fact..
You're using the term differently. It's more of how the couple sincerely and purely loved one another when they performed the act and not just out of the *need* to perform a sexual release. I think anyone who is self aware can already distinguish between just a lustful sexual act-when you're just in a desperate need to use your body, versus an actual physical demonstration of love.
Stop beign a degenerate guesser. Its exactly what Augustine says about sex. He says that EVERY sexual act is maculate with sin and desire since the fall, and that the ideal relation was for the sole porpuse of procreation.
Not only him, but Tertulian and Origen too.
Why is it important to believe Mary's parents didn't enjoy sex when conceiving her?
Nobody is saying that. The passions are untamed desires that stem from good and proper natural desires. You have to put the English word “passion” as it’s commonly used out of your mind when discussing the theological concept of the passions. They’re different.
It's a gnostic belief that all things human and earthly and worldly are sinful and you must refrain from them and attain knowledge to be saved, roughly speaking. Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox are gnostic though they officially deny it.
That’s not true. No where does the catechism teach that. We believe the world is good as it was made by God. All God created things are good, but not in excess. Things that have been corrupted (marital sex into porn, sex for hire , promiscuity etc.) are not good.
@michellesmith5436 From my research, gnostic is heresy. But unfortunately some still take to it.
@@michellesmith5436what do you mean when you say Catholics and Orthodox are gnostic but deny it?
It is truly meet to bless thee, O Theotokos
Ever blessed and most pure, and the Mother of our God
More honorable than the cherubim, and more glorious and without compare than the seraphim
Without corruption thou gavest birth to God the Word
Verily Theotokos, we magnify thee ☦️
So dispassionate conception is holier than the passionate kind? I don't know if that's the weirdest thing I ever heard...but it makes the top 10 list.
Gotta wonder who was watching Joachim & Anna perform the "procreative act" to assess their degree of passion.
That' s the comment I was looking for...... ohhh. Was about to drop the same excat comment. Thank you!
Very, very often, I wonder if a church expressing this much love and reverence for a female isn't one that actually is just using a concept of a completely sin free female to shame any woman who isn't somehow perfect.
This is insane, they don't even care about Jesus. Someone in the crowd yelled to Jesus, blessed are the breasts that fed you. He said MORE BLESSED IS THE ONE WHO OBEYS MY FATHER IN HEAVEN.
This is mostly marketing and pretending they care about women when they don't much.
I’m atheist but yea I’m pretty confused here, lol. Does “dispassionate conception” mean “we had sex but we’re not in love”? So basically, Mary’s parents had a one night stand between two people who didn’t care about each other or love each other at all? Or am I misunderstanding lol
@johnmomberg5821 bruh it means they conceived without lust. That's what makes it holier
@@lareskovest8681It's not lust to enjoy sex the way God intended.
Marry was blessed, NOT devine, sinless, and nor is she "queen" of heaven.
If Mary is not the Queen of Heaven, then Jesus Christ is a failure.
She’s sinless she’s the queen of heaven and earth. She have the Royal bloodline even Jesus was born. Mary never sim, she grew in a convent where all the priests are. If you keep following Mary have sim because she have other kids than Jesus, you read it the wrong way. Those are the appostles. In Greece, they use a same word for cousin and friends. Same for English, brother and sister in Christ even they aren’t your real brothers. If you can’t find Joseph on appostles list, check Act 1:21. He was one option from long time followers.
@ToDoGoodWill there is nothing in scripture to support any of your claims my friend... Everything about Mary being sinless or having elevated status was made up by man...
Mary is the Queen Mother of Heaven, not divine, obviously, but powerful through her Son.
@rorypinata265 the bible never says she will be queen of anything, only man says that...
But Mary died.... The wages of sin is death. She was a sinner just like the rest of us. As for Jesus, his power is in the blood. We all get our blood from our fathers. Not our mothers. Modern science proves that Mary did not have to be sinless for Christ to be pure. Christ's father was pure. Not so us.... That's why we suffer the sins of our fathers, even to the 4th generation, not our mother's.
Spot on. Catholics admit it themselves when they prey 'hail Mary full of grace ' .it's grace that made her worthy not being born sinless. Everyone has original sin like a disease. Including mary.
The Fathers say that only Jesus was free from sin. If you think Mary was then you have to explain why she still needed a saviour and why she still sacrificed for sin. Sadly gnostic ideas had leaked into the church and mariolatey was one form of that.
I heard it explained to me this way once:
Most of us trip and fall in the mud and therefore need a savior to pull us back out.
Jesus kept Mary from falling into the mud in the first place.
He still saved her. He just saved her before sin instead of after.
@@ClareWiley She still partook of the fallen human nature though, as She is a daughter of Eve. She still needed reconciliation to God as the rest of us do, even if not rescue from sin.
Dispassionate sex is (in my opinion) a bad thing. I am Protestant, and I have a less traditionally oriented view of Mary. I believe that she gave birth to Jesus as a virgin, having been impregnated by the Holy Spirit. I don’t believe in her perpetual virginity, but either way it would not undermine the significance of Christ’s birth. I see no reason that Joseph, a newly married man, would not consummate his marriage with Mary at some point or another.
As far as Anne and Mary’s birth go, I think Mary was born in the same way as any other woman, and was basically an average girl until God called her to bare God and make the Word become Flesh.
Mary carried out the ultimate human act, giving birth to God, and deserves great respect. The Bible says to honor your father and mother, so the Mother of God deserves reverence.
Yeah, I've been growing more traditionally Protestant (Evangelical Anglican) and this is my view as well.
I'm Eastern Orthodox and I 100% agree with you. The immaculate conception and perpetual virginity ideas just seem odd in my opinion and the hoops that people jump through to explain away Jesus's half-brothers and half-sisters are way too high off the ground for me. We see his siblings mentioned in Matthew 12:46 and 13:55-56, Mark 3:31-35, Luke 8:19, and Acts 1:14, with every instance using the specific Greek word for brother, something which would not be done if they were his cousins, as some claim. Furthermore, the theory that his siblings could be Joseph's children from a previous marriage has no basis anywhere in the Bible. They are not mentioned anywhere before the events of Bethlehem and Joseph is never mentioned as having a wife before Mary. Finally, looking at Matthew 1:25 we see that Matthew states that Joseph "did not consummate their marriage until she [Mary] gave birth to a son", with "until" being the operative word and public evidence of said consummation being Jesus's younger siblings.
Every sexual act without any purpuse but reproduction is maculated with lust, for the sole reason that sex became perverted after the fall. Go read the Church Fathers, because its exactly what they say, you silly guesser.
The Virgin Mary was conceived without sin, not that it was of her own power, but the sacrifice of her Son was applied to her retrospectively, and because of this she was counted without original sin.
The only one without sin is Jesus who is God manifested in the flesh.
Mary fits in with Ecclesiastes 7:20
"Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins."
- Ecclesiastes 7:20 NIV
I may agree with the Magisterium on this tradition, however I love the videos you’re putting out as it helps me understand Orthodoxy so much better
We Muslims also believe that Mary (God be pleased with her) was without sin and immaculate conception of Jesus(AS).
But you don't believe what Jesus said, just what some random man who was rejected by Christians and Jews for his harasays.
Xavi you muhhamendians have respect in the mother of our god my friend but you all are following devol. Wish you the best and to find the truth in orthodox church. If you have any orthodox friend please test the holy water with him together.
@@Paul-uv6mbyess we don't call him God .we follow what Jesus Moses and mohmmad told us that God is one and only .he begets not nor is he bigotton.
There was no Trinity at all in Christianity but the pastors invented it .we don't believe God needs to eat and excrete becouse those are human needs .if following this is wrong we are happy to be wrong .
The Jews don't believe in this as well ,so do we .may God guide you to worship God without associating anybody with him .
@@maHeEr56ok, have fun in hell lol
@@maHeEr56 the Trinity is through out the books
Do you really believe that our lord Jesus Christ would born out of a sinners body?
@@telosbound does not make sense because Jesus had human nature and was not a sinner.
@@sebastianlealurquiola5905.... Because he was God...
Three entities, one God, why is this so hard for prots?
Ye. She was a sinner justified by faith.
@@sebastianlealurquiola5905
If you can believe that Mary could be born sinless, to sinful parents; why can't you believe that Jesus could be born sinless to sinful parents?
The only one without sin is Jesus who is God manifested in the flesh.
Mary fits in with Ecclesiastes 7:20
"Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins."
- Ecclesiastes 7:20 NIV
Original sin doesn’t mean we’re born with sin it means we’re born into sin.
Because of original sin, we inherited the consequences of that sin, which is death.
Exactly!
Not 2 be offensive but how r we born into it plz explain
@@margaretdominic1578 When God 1st created Adam (Mankind) death did not exist for them, but when Adam (Mankind) sinned against God, the consequence of that sin was Death.
Because of Adam (Mankind) sin, we inherited that original sin which is death.
Now fast forward to Jesus, For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
@@mr.romero4799 wouldn't that mean jesus also was born into sin since he is fully man as well as being fully god?
@@sharificles Did the flesh die?
Yes of course. Being born into sin isn't the same as committing sin. Why do you think Jesus was baptised? He set the example in how to be born again.
O Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to Thee. Hail Holy Queen, Mother of God. ✝️🇻🇦✝️
Mary was not conceived without sin, she does not pray for people, or even have the ability to hear us. She’s not “mother of God” (God created her) and she isn’t queen of heaven. Stop making things up, stop idolizing. Repent and turn to The Father through Christ, he is your one and only savior and mediator, and the only one who hears your prayers.
@@TheArbiterOfTruth Mother of God doesn't mean God didn't create her, that is an obtuse and purposefully ignorant statement. It means Jesus is God, and because Mary is his mother therefore she is the Mother of God. To deny that is to deny the divinity of Christ. Yes she was conceived without sin, one cannot be "full of grace", let alone be given that TITLE by God unless the merits of Christ sacrifice have been applied to that person. She does pray for all her children, because Christ lives in all who are baptized the Holy Theotokos views all baptized Christians as her children. All in heaven pray for the body of Christ, and she is Queen of Heaven and Earth not by her own merit, but because Christ is the Davidic King and she is his mother, do you know who the queen of the davidic King is? Do you know what gebirah means? You have zero scriptural or theological understanding of your Holy Mother. Christ is my only Savior and Mediator, WHO DIED FOR MY AND OUR SINS. Stop trying to attempt to spread your false religion in YT comments, pick up a Bible and study the last 2000 years of the Christian faith. Recognizing the fact that God called Mary to hold a unique place in the salvation of man isn't idolatry, idolatry is worshipping what isn't a God as the one true God, which no Orthodox or Catholic Christian does, at least none who hold to the Apostolic faith passed down by the Fathers, which based on your ignorance I doubt you hold, you only believe that you to hold it.
Mary herself in her apparitions has said herself "I am the immaculate conception" . Now if the Blessed Virgin Mary says it I BELIEVE HER not anyone else .
You believe in "apparitions"?
Did you compare that with scripture to test its claims ?
Because Saul of Tarsus
did, eventually.
Paul did not simply "believe".
Interesting how “Mary” took 1800 years to reveal herself as the “immaculate conception”
As an Orthodox...I speak clearly and loudly...Beautiful Mary...Mother of Jesus Christ gave birth to the son of God, she was chosen and she most deserved to be chosen...she is special...⚡she is one and only...⚡long live Orthodoxy...⚡❤☦
None of us deserved to be chosen that's the power of God's grace "so no man can boast"
@@davidmclaurin9373 LOLLL 😌she deserves it because she is pure in soul, body, thoughts... God chose her because she was the best... if she wasn't the best he wouldn't have chosen her... but holy Mary, eternal glory to her... she was the best ...be careful how you talk about the most holy Mary⚡☝️, how dare you...who are you???no one should dare to mention the most holy Mary, the woman who gave birth to Jesus Christ.....she washed away the sin of all women...⚡and she is the protector of ALL women...long live the Orthodox Bible...⚡❤☦
@@katranaapetroIdk if this is a joke or not, but I'm seriously doubting Mary's "holiness" as a reason to worship a simple human being...like we ALL are...
...like at the beginning of The Fall, ALL human beings have sinned and fall short of the glory of God? Worshipping Mary is like worshipping Mother Teresa. To put her on such a pedestal is such a blatant form of idolatry and a serious violation of the Commandments.
@@thatsanepicbmw Orthodoxy and Catholicism are not the same...so don't dirty your mouth with sin anymore...short and clear...for Orthodoxy, she is holy Mary...who are you to dare to tell us what we are going to do...how dare you interfere in someone else's religion...first you Catholics learn to save your Bible because God looked and saw that you didn't even try to protect your bible....it's no wonder it's like this you talk about the holy Mary... and what sin comes out of your mouth... know your place and don't interfere where you don't belong... how dare you tell us, how will we believe in our God.. .better mind your own business..I highly recommend that...and first clean the mud in front of your threshold... you better do that... than you look at us as a golden threshold... because our threshold has a soul, and true love, and clarity, and it stands firm and fears nothing but God. ....God can only be an Idol, none other than God..only God should be an Idol...and that is what people should be pride...😏⚡❤God forgive him, he doesn't know what he's doing...
@@katranaapetro but I'm not a Catholic
Weather one considers Mother Mary or any of the saints in high esteem or not is up to the individual. However one must ask the question "Can praying to Mother Mary or the saints accomplish anything God cannot?" And the answer is: No!
So pray to God and no one else without flirting with fire on an unfounded belief not of God or Jesus's teachings.
Nobody prays to them but THROUGH THEM. You can insult the mother of God and see how He feels about it during your judgement.
@@CloroxBleachCompany to them or through them,what is the difference? Pray to God cos God can hear your prayers..even Jesus thought us to pray to God and no one else. that's not me demeaning or insulting anyone, that's just stating facts.
@@kingzamn45 If you do not know the difference between praying to vs. praying through, you do not have sufficient knowledge on catechism to be espousing any public declaration on the Catholic Church. The faithful pray through saints and Mary for intercession. The Bible shows many instances in which God’s faithful servants interceded on behalf of humanity and God changed His mind whenever He was convinced, but the decision on judgments will always be His and His alone. It is the same as someone asking a faithful person to “pray for me” and then you include them in your prayers, with the only difference being the saints and Mary have more influence with God to pray for mercy than someone who is not yet fully holy. God is loving and is surrounded in His kingdom by angels, saints, martyrs, and Mary. He isn’t a lonesome being that refuses intercession or interaction, His love and humility is infinite, therefore I rebuke your serpent tongue claiming otherwise.
@taylorrowe2002 I hear you and I appreciate that ya taking a middle ground on the teachings of Catholicism but you really need to read your Bible.. cos those minor differences what you talk about are the difference between following the God of the Bible and following a cult led by Satan masquerading as the light. Do not believe in anything other than what is in the Bible and do not pray to anyone other than to God. Cos not mother Mary, not the angels, not the saints, no one can lead you or make you do anything on their own unless God allows them to. But the devil can lead you down a path of destruction step by step by hiding in the shadows cast from the light. It's done to the Muslims and it's done to the Catholics. Sure there is forgiveness of sins committed unknowingly but willful ignorance while having your Bible right besides you is a risky game to play with your soul. So don't listen to me even. But listen to God's word in his holy book. Please!
As far as I know, actually, in Orthodoxy we tend to avoid the expression "original sin" (except for philosophical discussions) because we don't want to imply that there is some "guilt" being passed on. However we believe in a different notion - the imperfect nature of man and by consequence, its perfectibility and "mobility" on this path. In other words, we inherit our mortal nature and our inherent limitations that come, but we are not "condemned" to stay at this level, we can constantly achieve (or lose and then achieve again) the image of God in us (as we were meant to be). Holy Mary, is the one that shows us that a human can really achieve this.
The angel cried to the lady full of grace, Rejoice, rejoice O Pure Virgin. Again I say Rejoice, thy son is risen from His three days in the tomb. With Himself He has raised all the dead. Rejoice, rejoice all ye people!
Shine, shine, shine O new Jerusalem! The glory of the Lord has shown on you. Exalt, exalt, and be glad O Zion! Be radiant, O Pure Theotokos in the Resurrection, the Resurrection of thy Son!
GLORY BE TO GOD!+++
I love this hymn!
What verse is this?
@@WiggleJimmy It i an orthodox hymn for the resurrection
@@WiggleJimmy It's the Refrain and Irmos of Ode 9 of the Canon of Pascha. Why does it need to be Bible verse?
Holy Mary, conceived without sin, please pray for us who have recourse to thee. Amen... feeling blessed to be a Catholic.
i love the mutual respect between catholics and orthodox in the comments section
I mean tbh, there are some negative nannies. But everyone is seemingly having a debate on what or who is right. If this was a protastant video, it would be so hateful, as they belive both orthadox and Catholics are going to hell
@@bbgamegodpnw actually no protestants believe in sola fide which means faith alone so in their world view all believing Christians are saved
I only wish the same decorum and respect can be applied when discussing theological differences with other Abrahamic faiths.
@@bbgamegodpnwEh, I mean we are correct about everything the bible says. While you guys on the other hand believe that you can pray to mary and you guys still believe the pope is holy.
Like c'mon, the pope is historically the last thing from holy.
@@Gabriel43819 Read every verse about St. Peter, Our lord chose Judas Iscariot himself, cope harder.
Growing up in the Orthodox Church (Oriental/Ethiopian), this is the first time I've heard anything like this.
He’s talking about Eastern Orthodoxy, the second largest Christian denomination worldwide. there is no relation between the two.
In my 45+ years of reading the Bible and learning God’s word, I have never read, studied, or seen any evidence of this. Please cite scripture.
But here’s the thing. Idolization is a sin. Worshipping someone or something other than God is a great sin and that’s what some religions that claim to believe in God do by idolizing Mary. I’m not trying to bash anyone’s beliefs here but if we are talking about the master of the universe aka Jesus (God) then that’s the absolute truth. I also have respect for her for giving birth to the loving God but she was just a human and isn’t God and up in heaven she’s not seen as the mother of God, she is seen as the child of God.
Begone Heretic
Shirk doesn't exist in the true religion
You are right, but at the same time, your opinion is not relevant here. There is a very bad mistake in your understanding. Nobody worships Mary, all Catholic and Orthodox believers always worship God the Trinity only. We are talking about Mary and also the saints because we put our honour in them, especially St Mary as Mother of Jesus.
We do venerate Mary not worship her, and the saints.
I had never heard of the Dispassionate Conception of Our Lady Theotokos to her parents Sts. Joachim & Anna until now. I can assert however, that the Immaculate Conception of St. Mary the Virgin to her Righteous parents Sts. Joachim & Anna, as a Roman Catholic doctrine made papal dogma is what has kept me Christian Orthodox. ☦️⚜️
You shouldn't be Orthodox Christian because of a negative (i.e because Rome has a doctrine wrong), - but because of a positive(i.e that the Orthodox Church is the truth).
@@Yusef2066 theoretically.
@@DharmasGhostand St. Mary the Virgin Theotokos as Tabernacle of the Word articulates the fact supremely. ⚜️⚜️⚜️☦️⚜️⚜️⚜️
You never heard of it because it’s nonsense
Do not add or subtract God's Word The Holy Bible
Man made traditions are satanic 😢
as a Catholic, i love my orthodox brothers ☦️🇻🇦
Please, somebody tell me where I can find the background music in this video. This has to be the most beautiful rendition of Ave Maria I've heard
Ava Maria D839 live version
@@MarvelousNonesense Thank you. God bless you
i like the idea that Mary was just a normal girl of David‘s lineage who happens to have a beautiful loving and pure heart and got chosen by GOD to bear His Son
St. Ephrem (306-373 A.D.), a Syrian Deacon and Doctor of the Church, wrote: “Thou and Thy mother are the only ones who are totally beautiful in every way. For in Thee, O Lord, there is no stain, and in Thy mother no stain.”
Wasn't Jesus the only one who was ever sinless?
@@roselle3129 and Mary
As an Orthodox Greek Mary is my mother. I had carcinoma and Mary speak to Jesus about me. She was every time near to me like real mother. You dont know ... What mother of God is.. you dont know...
As long as we all believe that Jesus is God and that He died and resurrected 3 days later then we all agree on this core issue.
This description of Mary is just a side issue that does not affect our personal relationship with God and our salvation.
Love these short videos, keep making them!
You really dont understand our catholic doctrine, your still young
As a Protestant I have a deep appreciation for orthodox theology. You are able to retain the awe and mystery of the faith while rejecting some of the stranger aspects of Catholicism. Immaculate conception is one of those doctrines that just makes most Protestants shake their head and think to ourselves “how did that silliness get approved”.
We didn’t inherit sin from Adam and Eve but a tendency to sin which none of us are strong enough to overcome. This is important because Jesus was fully human yet did not “inherit sin”, nor guilt.
He inherited human temptations but overcame them. He was tempted by food initially which is a human instinct (human not only referencing to us be created beings)
I subscribe to both Orthodox and Roman TH-cam channels in an attempt to learn what both traditions believe and why. I am constantly shocked by the tone of many Roman Catholics as so negative toward the Orthodox, let alone other sects within Christianity. Periodically, I do see a few very harsh comments from Orthodox but most often from the Catholics. I understand that both have ancient traditions, and that there is much very old conflicts, but I wish more folks had charity in dialogue. Especially since most of these traditions cannot be proved.
Because Orthodox nowadays are ironically more progressive than Catholics except only on the matters on LGBTQ because the scriptures denounce it as the worst sin (Abomination+Due penalty for error)
They have gone so far that they are willing to accept Heretics such as Muslims and Oriental and Assyrian Orthodox as worshippers of true God
They have become very Ecumenical and less exclusive
European Gentiles were just making shit up at this stage 😂
"gentiles" found the pharisee.
Get behind me (((rabbi)))
They've been doing that ever since they missed the crucifixion of Christ. 😂
This happens when you’re so obsessed with peoples purity that even the idea of two married people having sex is unbearable. Why does it matter if matter was immaculately conceived or dispassionately conceived?
It doesnt matter. Its just when people start praying to mary and telling everyone else if they dont pray as well their sinners.
Its not the modern definition of passion. They still had sex, the passion refers to sin, so there was no lust only love in the conception.
Every sexual act without any purpuse but reproduction is maculated with lust, for the sole reason that sex became perverted after the fall. Go read the Church Fathers, because its exactly what they say, you silly guesser.
Mary was conceived without sin, not by her merits but by the merits of her creator who chose her before she was conceived, to be the pure, sinless, and holy vessel of His incarnation. Secondly God makes the laws, so He too can give exceptions. For example, He said ALL would die physically, but He chose to take Enoch and Elijah alive into heaven! Same way HE CHOSE to protect His Virgin mother from the stain of ALL sins.
Trent Horn did an amazing video on the implication of Mary's birth of Jesus if she wasn't without sin.
What I've heard is if she was without sin, she wouldn't need a savior. This in contrast with: Then Mary said: My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord and my spirit finds joy in God my savior. Luke 1:46-47.
Hail Mary? FULL OF GRACE
One problem with the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is that it is not taught in the Bible. Even Catholics admit that Scripture does not directly teach the Immaculate Conception. The Bible nowhere describes
Mary as anything but an ordinary human female whom God chose to be the mother of the Lord Jesus Christ. Mary was undoubtedly a godly woman (Luke 1:28). Mary was surely a wonderful wife and mother. Jesus definitely loved and cherished His mother (John 19:27).
But the Bible gives us no reason to believe that Mary was sinless. In fact, the Bible gives us every reason to believe that Jesus Christ is
the only Person who was not “infected” by sin and never committed a sin (see Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22; 1 John 3:5).
@barryallen119 Genesis 3:15 is pretty clear that the devil has nothing on the woman and her Seed. Then an Angel from heaven gives to Mary the title of Full of Grace. That's pretty clear to me. The Church makes no dogmatic declarations without scripture and over a 1000 years of theologians thinking that this could have been.
It also just makes too much sense for God to protect His mother from that wicked snake and for Him to dwell in an immaculate womb and take from her immaculate flesh so that He may put on Flesh that will be offered up for us.
Plus Our Lady came from heaven and told us that she is the Immaculate Conception.
Also if Jesus didn't start the Catholic Church then He was never really God and Christians ought to be pitied above all others
What’s left? Catholics will soon turn Mother Mary into a goddess. 😮
They already have. Some of them refer to her as the Queen of heaven'. What's strange is, there is an idol in the book of Jeremiah referred to by the exact same title. And the Israelites got a real telling off from God because they were worshipping this said queen. I heard someone say something about slippery slopes, and the catholic 'faith' looks like one.
No. We as Catholics simply love her as the mother of God, and at the cross she became our mother and so we must treat her as such, to honor her, to love her, but we never worship her, we give her the respect and honor she deserves and she is PERFECT she was the one fully human being that defeated the devil and so we give her hyper doulia- (doulia is what we give to the angels and saints) rather than Literia which is reserved for God alone. 😁
@@frumpusnumpus there is also an idol named the king of heaven in that same book. Should we not call Jesus the king of heaven then?
Oh no. You know nothing of the Catholic faith. Especially the many miracles that made non believers believe. During exorcism, the mention of Mama Mary, gives fear to the devil. No. She is not goddess. She is our mother.
Queen of heaven - because she ascended to heaven body and soul ' and if you don't believe that Jesus is powerful God, you won't believe His love for His mother.
Dispassionate conception sounds like boring sex. Dispassionate sex in marriage sounds about par for the course in most marriages.
Dispassionate sex is sex without sin, exactly like it would be before the fall and the human nature corruption. Stop beign a degenrate guesser and go read the Church Fathers, because is exactly this that says Saint Augustine.
I am western orthodox and believe in a properly articulated immaculate conception
This is a PERFECT example as to why one doesn’t get life altering information from TH-cam.
Blessed Mother, pray for us!
Eastern Orthodox is my favorite Protestant denomination
Amen! The first protestant church
😆 😂 😆, actually, this kind of "I don't believe in immaculate conception" is one of the early Christian heresies.
Dang, low blow man😂 at least they still have valid sacraments tho and actually believe in the Eucharist.
Omg I love Catholicism and it’s ability to just change doctrine to whatever they see fit
@@darthbigred22weird that Catholics say this bc the pope was the one who went back on the councils word which said no one may change the creed, but what did he do? Behind everyone’s back he changed the creed and added the filoque.
“Intercessor for our souls”
Anyone remember “THERE IS ONLY ONE INTERCESSOR BETWEEN GOD AND MAN”?
This is why sola scriptura is vital
Bingo. The tradition of men can be very corrupt.
2 Thessalonians 2:15 lol
@@SugarCaner-fx7bb "by our spoken word or by our letter"
@@drewpack9702 Spoken word that has been passed down generation to generation is tradition.
For instance, the reference to "He shall be called a Nazarene" cannot be found in the Old Testament, yet it was "spoken through the prophets" (Matthew 2:23). Therefore, this prophecy, which is considered to be "God's word," was passed down orally rather than through Scripture.
In addition, in 1 Corinthians 10:4, Paul refers to a rock that "followed" the Jews through the Sinai wilderness. The OT says nothing about such miraculous movement, but rabbinic tradition does.
Concerning the Immaculate Conception of Mary, here's what the early church fathers had to say:
“He was the ark formed of incorruptible wood. For by this is signified that His tabernacle was exempt from putridity and corruption.” Hippolytus, Orations Inillud, Dominus pascit me {ante A.D. 235).
“This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one.” Origen, Homily 1 {A.D. 244).
“Thou alone and thy Mother are in all things fair, there is no flaw in thee and no stain in thy Mother.” Ephraem, Nisibene Hymns 27:8 {A.D. 370).
“Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin.” Ambrose, Sermon 22, 30 {A.D. 388).
“We must except the Holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom I wish to raise no question when it touches the subject of sins, out of honour to the Lord; for from Him we know what abundance of grace for overcoming sin in every particular was conferred upon her who had the merit to conceive and bear Him who undoubtedly had no sin.” Augustine, Nature and Grace 4, 36 {A.D.415).
and yet, we have so many protestant denominations. is it not the same scripture you guys are looking at?
All these doctrines, both Catholic and Orthodox, are man-made.
Which church do you adhere to that has your theology free-of-man 🥰
@@donut9719 the word "church" is "ekklesia" which is used in the Septuagint synonymously with Israel. This occurs, again, in Acts 7 when Steven gives his defense of the faith.
The church is Israel, Israel is the body of believers.
There are no "churches" - there is one. There is one Law. One God.
The theology I subscribe to is the one in the Bible, reiterated in the NT and confirmed by the church fathers. It appeals to His standard, not any "standard" or ritual put forth by men.
The "immaculate conception" is completely extra-Biblical and has zero Scriptural basis. That there is some argument or separation about it, when we are called to have unity, is ridiculous.
@@GoldenRuffianyour Bible was put together by those “churches” and men
@@NevetsWC1134 yes, and the *first* Bible was put together by Marcion, a heretic, too. Should I pay homage to his heretical teachings? No.
And those men in the early church identified neither as "Catholic" or "Orthodox."
Nonetheless, I respect and appreciate what many historical Catholic and Orthodox figures have done.
That doesn't change the *factual* nature of my statement. And any argument, disassociation, and death that have come from the division is all based on non-Biblical sources.
We're arguing over this while the Adversary gains ground and the modern church falls farther and farther away from God's Standard like a rebellious Israel (which Steven calls the church in Acts 7). Things haven't changed...
The immaculate conception is not Mary's being returned to pre-fallen nature, it's her operating perfectly within the fallen nature. Had she said "no" to the angel Gabriel in some way, one can only imagine what horrible directions humanity would go in. It would be a second fall.
@@telosboundShe operates within fallen nature (the state of the body/world outside of the garden), she does not participate in fallen nature (the state of the soul outside of the garden). This, in my estimation at least, summarizes Mary's situation in Catholicism.
@@telosbound Think also of it this way: God chooses those who choose Him. Noah walks with God, Abraham believes in God, Moses speaks to Him as a friend, David is called "after God's own heart" and does His will.
This leads us to Christ, man and God in one person, commanding from whoever is to bring him into this world to be more blameless than the blameless Noah, more faithful than the faithful Abraham, more intimate than the intimate Moses, and more willing than the willing David. How are we supposed to attain this in Mary and not describe her as immaculate?
If Mary had said no God would have given Jesus to someone else just like he gave the crown to Davis after Saul. God's plans are not thwarted by humans. Or maybe you worship a puny version of God.
@@telosboundthe Catholic understanding of Original Sin is that taught by Augustine, that is, that which causes us to be inclined towards sin, to take pleasure in it, concupiscence. Mary didn't have that in any measure.
💠We Ethiopian orthodox christians BELIEVE in the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION! Virgin Mary is sinless and doesn't possess the original sin.
Mary thought that Jesus was mad and along with her other children came to Jesus to take Him away when Jesus was teaching (Mark 3:20-35). Jesus' response then:
Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked.
Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.”
So, much for sinlessness in Mary! I respect her as the mother of Jesus, but she had her mistakes.
Sins and mistakes are two different things, and the fact that Mary didn’t always understand her Divine Son simply demonstrates her human limitations but doesn’t prove sinfulness. On the other hand, we know that Mary is without sin because God promised the mother of the Messiah would be in opposition to Satan. And God keeps His promises.
What is your point here that in some way the LORD was disrespecting His Holy mother?
I am unsure about this translation, would have to check it in latin. In polish the others that came with Holy Mary are not stated as Her other children, but his brothers, which has to be taken into context of local customs, where close kin would be called a sibling, thats why for example Saint Thaddaios is considered Our Lords brother.
The phrase “Mary’s other children” never appears in Scripture. Why are you adding to Scripture?
@@1962mrpaul
1. Calling the Son of God mad is a sin.
2. Where does God promise the "mother of Messiah" would be opposed to Satan?
3. And how does opposing Satan equal sinlessness? I also oppose Satan, but I've sinned.
In the end my Immaculate Heart will triumph.- Our Lady of Fatima 1917.
Even tho I'm not Christian anymore I do appreciate how all the different catholic sects debate theology in a civilized manner instead of screeching about nonsense like the televangelist protestants do. You guys are a lot easier to talk to
Nah Roman Catholics are the proto Protestants. They screeched about their nonsense through out most of the Middle Ages and renaissance
Usually it’s a secular thing, screaming about nonsense
There is nothing unrighteous about the passionate love between husband and wife. This is the way God designed it, and serves as a powerful analogy for Jesus’s passion for his bride, the church.
According to the Orthodox, one should have not have sex with wives of Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday night because that makes them unclean. You should also starve yourself often so your sexual hormones get low enough that you don’t get any ideas.
Stop beign a degenerate guesser. Its exactly what Augustine says about sex. He says that EVERY sexual act is maculate with sin and desire since the fall, and that the ideal relation was for the sole porpuse of procreation.
Not only him, but Origen and Tertulian too.
We must remain Orthodox ☦️
Reject all changes in our Faith.
I’m not here to start a debate, just a genuine question. I’ve asked my Catholic friends the same, Orthodoxy has really just popped on my radar somehow. What do y’all do with Colossians 2:8?
Which orthodox? They’re in a schism. Your priests are blessing nukes and have declared a “holy war.” Pride is blinding
@@sambrown7536Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
Notice how it says human traditions. There is a clear difference between Sacred Tradition and human tradition. Sacred Tradition is the one given by Christ. Orthodox uphold Sacred Tradition and therefore the elemental spirits of Christ.
The reason why the Orthodox Church has no need of the Catholic doctrine is that "original sin", as understood by the Latin Church, isn't recognised in the east. For us Orthodox, original sin does not denote the inheritance of the sin of the first couple (Adam and Eve); rather it describes the fact of all humanity having inherited the decay and fallen nature of those original sinners. We do believe that the Theotokos was sinless, but we also believe that, like all of us, she struggled and was tempted; this makes her a far more potent figure in Orthodoxy than in Catholicism, for she is proof that, through Christ, we may totally escape sin.
Just to clarify; I love my Catholic brethren. The greatest tragedy to have befallen the church was the Great Schism :(
Wow! That’s really good! I never thought of that reality in Orthodoxy.
Your description of what Orthodox believe is also literally what Catholics believe. It’s an inheritance of a wounded nature, a deprivation of original justice. Ancestral Sin as the Orthodox define it is literally just Original Sin as Catholics define it with a different coat of paint.
THANK YOU SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK
@@achilles4242no, catholics, if i am not mistaken, believe that due to original sin, everyone holds some culpability for the first sin and did sin in/with/through adam. This is why they need some extra explanation for Mary's sinlessness
@@melonyrobinson9944 No, that is not what the Catholic belief is. It is just describing how the original sin of Adam has wounded human nature and that wounded nature is passed down to his descendants. It does not ascribe personal guilt or fault to people as if they committed the original sin; rather, it speaks of how people suffer the consequences of the original sin.
Sex without passion? I know a thing or two about it myself! 😂😂😂
ikr
HOW would any mortal know they were "dispassionate" ?
Did the parents report that to everyone else ?
How does union work without arousal ?
This is nothing but yet
MORE ideas dreamed up
by mortal men,
and taken as truth from God.
It is ADDING
to what He has said
or revealed.
Echoes of Eden.
The one thing truthful in this short is that it is called a "tradition"...
of mere men.
Immaculate conception. My brother in Christ. No human has ever been sinless except one, Jesus.
You're freekin crazy dude!