Community service award goes to you guys for information shared. If the manufacturer will not support a new owner, it leads me to believe there will be non-existent support for owners of older boats.
May I ask, what lead you to think there was OEM support for owners of older, "out of warranty" boats?? IF the yacht builder is 1. still an open for business AND 2. they are financially healthy, then MAYBE 3. they would be willing to 4. get PAID for advice or for any work done for you. Other than that it's business as usual... Caveat Emptor. PS BTW... I was absolutely SOLD on the Caliber 40 LRC as my dream boat back when I was first boat shopping. AMAZING design and a serious blue water boat! LOVE the Calibers... (but I'm too big (not fat)... too tall... and they are just a tad to "tight" inside for me to live comfortably... otherwise I can almost guarantee you I would be living aboard a Caliber 40 LRC right now. Great boat.
You will not be the only ones... This is not a mistake this is the way they do business. Its great you make this public and let others know what they are getting into.
There is not a single boat manufacturer which does warranty service other than superficial which is FAR cheaper to just do it yourself and then ONLY if it is right next to their manufacturing facility.
Thank you for doing what's right and not taking the money and keeping quiet, I can't even begin to imagine the stress and frustration you guys must be going through.
I am asked often, twice today in fact, if I have taken a deal and signed some form of NDA for cash and reparations. I haven't, it is a hard choice to put what is right before personal gain and the gain of your friends but have so far at substantial loss as you say. There can be significant negatives to taking a deal. They just may not be immediately evident.
Anyone who is watching these videos would never ever buy a new or even used leopard and rightly so. I’m so very sorry for the anguish you are experiencing , it must be very traumatic! Your vids will get the message out and hopefully Robertson and Caine and their leopard boats will get what they deserve!
I had very similar experiences, on a much smaller scale, at the hands of Eastern Boats in Milton NH USA. Once it's built and paid for and gone . . . it's gone in these manufacturer's minds. We work hard to buy these things, and likely didn't get where we are by treating people the way some manufacturers do. Good report, thank you.
Sadly you are not the first channel to have major problems with Robertson & Caine, and even more sadly you probably will not be the last. Now I wish I had downloaded and saved all of the previous videos. It also seems that TH-cam is very gracious to any body with money and does not hesitate to shaft all of the little people....makes it hard for the viewers and subscribers when goliaths are so willing to censor the truth and the facts. Keep up the work and will keep watching....All the best to you and your mates!!
I am so sorry that you've had this experience. I am thinking about purchasing a new boat to get back on the water, and after hear complaints from others and seeing this video, I know that I will be avoiding any boat that has Rodertson and Caine involved in its construction. Thanks you so much for posting this video.
As a South African, I am really ashamed of the run around and poor service you have received from Leopard and R&C. As a owner of a tech company, I am fully aware of how technical support, or the lack thereof, can make or break a company. While I’m sure some other manufacturers of boats also tend to skimp on support particularly when it effects their bottom line, these guys seem to have taken this to new low. Wake up R&C, do the right thing, or get ready to hemorrhage a lot more $$, than what’s at stake here.
Hopefully, you are able to get all of the issues resolved soon! I recommend you speak with several other sailing channels about a maritime/new boat build lawyer to get the contact information, just in case. (e.g. NautiGuys, Barefoot Doctors, Sailing Into Freedom, Gone with the Wynns, Sketch to Sea, etc.) All the best!
There are a couple of sailing channels offering their assistance. Trent wanted to give the parties involved a chance to do the right thing and change their behaviour before escalating things.
Thank you for sharing. We will not consider any Robertson and Cain boat and will discourage all friends and family from buying from this ship builder. It’s truly shameful and they don’t deserve to stay in business
Thank you so much for sharing your experience with Robertson & Cain . I am looking to purchase a Catamaran in the next 18months and a Leopard was high on the list. Not anymore, As you rightfully pointed out as a retiree I dont wish to spend my first years playing a warranty game with what seems to be incompetent builders but also bad after service. Sorry Leopard you are off my list.
Wow, thank you so much. Wife and I are retiring soon, wanted to get a catamaran and have looked at the Leopard 45. No way in H#$$ would I buy a Leopard now.
I was also deeply offended by the disgraceful attitude towards their customers. Like you, I was seriously considering buying a Leopard catamaran. Now, I won't. Buying such a catamaran means buying complete disregard from its manufacturer. And I don't need that at all.
Thanks for sharing. You have probably saved a lot of people from experiencing the same thing. You would thing with the amount of social media out there a company would do everything it possibly could to make things right just to avoid bad PR. Everyone makes mistakes, it's how you handle the aftermath of the situation is where it counts. Companies who behave poorly tend not to stay in business very long.
Hopefully all outcomes are positive for as many people as possible. Hopefully there is a clean up at R&C and short sighted people who think that it is OK to produce boats and situations like this don't keep doing it.
I’m glad you have the energy and resources to hold them to account. Don’t buy from them. If you are in their order queue, cancel and accept the loss of deposit. You will save in the long term.
Great job on the video. A small Segway I am in the industry of litigation and this is the number one problem that we have with insurance companies. The insurance companies do not want to cover anything and prefer to deny coverage and then it goes to trial.
What was our Robertson & Caine Yacht Warranty Worth? lol Nothing at all by the looks of it. I wont be buying a LEOPARD CATAMARAN or anything ells they sell. What a bunch of Wankers. Hats of for making a stand. 👍
I had a small issue decades ago with a new car purchase, it was a nightmare I cannot imagine the hardship you must have gone through. I do not know how that works in your country but in Canada & USA when you purchase a new boat it is not un-usual to include a surveyor to visit the build at different point in time to ensure the boat is being built properly. Amazing, in the second to last sentence they are basically saying that if they installed a Lewmar windlass and the windlass is defective you should deal with Lewmar and not them. That is crazy. This is my first video watch on this but I am going to visit the rest of your channel to get the entire story!
Thanks for the support. You have touched on a grey area. We have had numerous items damaged by the shipyard's poor installation. Who pays for that? The manufacturer shouldn't have to. Turns into total BS and arguments. A warranty not worth having for live aboard cruisers.
We are so happy you placed this video as we are/ were seriously considering a L42 but no longer…. Either no boat or something manufactured closer to where we will use the boat
KUDOS to y'all for DOING THE RIGHT THING, and not caving to threats and bullying from unscrupulous jerks, nor taking any payola to stay quiet! Y'all are GOOD people in an industry of mostly good people, and a few scumbags. We need to always call out the scumbags publicly so the good people can continue helping each other. Thank you!
I love the Australian power and tenacity as a captain I am in shock of how poorly Leopard handled this situation Leopard has lost more money NOT doing the right thing then selling more boats good luck Leopard
A warranty from them is worth nothing if they can't even agree to fix something like a critical crossbeam. I always thought that Leopards were built well and were considering a new Leopard at the 2024 Annapolis boat show but now we will need to think more critically about our decision.
Thank you for sharing your experiences, apparently this seems to be more common thru out the industry based on other new boats videos that I have seen. You would think that the negative publicity would get them to correct their ways. Good luck, I hope you are able to resolve the issues going forward.
The problem is the contract between the broker and builder. The toxic attitude towards customers that some employees at the shipbuilder seem to have who are totally detached from the reality of living aboard a boat full time.
I am so sorry you had to go through all of this. Thank you so much for sharing your story and making people aware of the pitfalls of purchasing a Leopard catamaran. One would hope that a company of that stature would stand behind their products and do the right thing. I hope this all works out for you in the end and they will step up to the plate.
Thanks for doing this. I don't believe it is just Leopard brand that has this issue (perhaps not to the same extent as yours). I was just talking to a Lagoon owner that is extremely frustrated with warranty work. I personally own a Bali and hear the same story from other Bali owners about warranty work. My guess is that unless the government gets involved, nothing will change.
Leopard and Travelopia have not been the issue and have often been extremely helpful beyond what you would expect. I sat in a meeting with Trent and Travelopia management and it was easy to tell from body language that they share some of our frustrations with the boat builder.
@@timhardman4764 Leopard Catamarans is a brand under Travelopia who is owned by KKR. Leopard is currently the only private broker for Robertson and Caine built hulls so have had a very close relationship with them. Travelopia have large charter fleets and extensive shipbuilding knowledge in their own right imo. Due to their components and the way that warranty complaints are processed between themselves and R&C, they have a strong interested in helping us repair out boat and get us back on the water. To be honest, most of their customer service has been extremely good and beyond what they should have had to do. My issues are not with Leopard who have done a lot to help us and clean up the large mess made by R&C. If Leopard sold a boat that was from a different shipbuilder I would recommend them as a broker.
@@travelsketch I think you're being too kind to Leopard. At the end of the day, you purchased a boat from Leopard ... and they should be taking care of you instead of putting it all on R&C. But no matter who is or should be responsible for fixes, I can't imagine buying a Leopard (even if built by another yard) due to their inability to make it right to you.
@@adamgoldberg Well Leopard is attempting to fix the boat and upgrade it with very high quality work so that is something. That said Trent is still out of pocket what to me is a massive sum of money from costs incurred due to the boat failing. That said they haven't said they won't cover them and have slowly been paying items off so far without an NDA which is highly commendable. That said with R&C QC at the state it is we could not recommend the boat builder at this time until they choose transparency and do the right thing.
I answer NO to all the questions you posed. I would not touch a Leopard yacht with a 10 foot pole given your experiences coupled with the bulkhead issue that is widely known and reported.
Re atanothercar comment. The internet is the last bastion of the individual the only place where the little guy can take a stand against companies who don't deserve to be in business. This stand at enormous personal cost has already made a difference because I directed a couple who were about to buy a Leopard to this site. Needless to say they have changed their mind about buying a Leopard catamaran. In the circumstances only a fool would enter any commercial arrangement with this brand. It's because of the integrity of this small group of people we are aware of the rubbish that's coming out of R&C yard and we can make an informed decision. Good riddins to R&C I hope you get what you deserve!
We were surprised when this started at this late stage and we started hearing rumours from Cape Town that instead of being constructive they are back to thinking of silly ways to cause drama in the background. They would be better off spending their time and money on mechanisms to improve QC and some basic customer service training.
Did R&C ever offer to replace your boat entirely? I would think this would be their best way to address what seems like a lemon you guys unfortunately were dealt. Leopards used to have a reputation as one of the "better" quality production boats and I always thought being a major supplier to Moorings/Sunsail would ensure they upheld their standard as these boats are eventually remarketed.
This option is way more complicated than it sounds. It was initially rejected very early in Cape Town when I verbally raised it and asked if this is really the boat they want on Yotuube and they only raised it again recently with the TH-cam feedback. We have upgraded the hull way to much for that now. I also won't sign an NDA which I'm going to assume that option will come with.
Oh, so sorry that a once in a lifetime purchase went bad for you. EVERYTHING I have seen about the Leopard Cats have been so positive. Thank you for providing this video about your experience. R & C and their warranty puts the Leopard into a no-go as far as I am concerned.
Please let the shipbuilder know why you made this decision if you appreciate our review. We are definitely not the only owners with warranty issues. We have multiple boats in the yard with us right now with issues, the model specific owners groups are full of sometimes repeat issues. The Leopard Catamaran Owners group deletes most negative media and is run by brokers.
Thank you, this is probably one of the only things that keeps large companies honest now. Individuals often want to do the right thing but may fear for their jobs by speaking out.
when i sold our second boat, one near buyer said, all boats have problems, at least you have honestly listed them... I thought that was kind of him to say, but now I hear this, I guess he was right
I think it is disgusting how you have been treated. I take my hat of to for what you are doing to help others understand the risk involved with buying a Leopard. Especially their lack of customer service in dealing with warranty claims.
Thank you, I hate having to feature in this TH-cam stuff personally but it feels like its the right thing to do. The channel was never meant to be for this.
i can imagine the stress and frustration you all feel and of course the wasted time that you have had to endure ,you all show a lot of courage and integrity , after such a huge investment you would expect and from a large company that they would be more than willing to rectify warranty issues not only to protect their brand but more importantly to make the customer experience good as i`m sure they did when you were handing over your hard earned money !! quality of work is paramount for safety when your in the ocean they seem to forgot that peoples lives can be at stake , 🧐
This is the same company which built boats with under-deck life raft lockers that broke off during heavy weather leaving a gaping hole in the deck, and without the life raft, which was washed away. See Curiousity at Gone with the Wynns, but theirs wasn't the only one.
Thank you for the support. While the boat repairs are coming along, we're aiming to see a positive outcome on a macro level as well that benefits not just us, but current and future owners too.
Thanks for the information, I will not be buying a Leopard boat. Maybe the new owners will clean house and be the company you want to do business with.
We have ordered a new catamaran (not by this builder) and stories like this are frightening. I sometimes hear issues like this but it is often where the buyer owns hull number 1-10, thus where production issues haven't been perfected yet. The Leopard 45 has no such excuse, and this seems to be more of an example of volume over quality. Given that most Leopards go into the charter market, where users do not have the same expectations/needs as full time cruisers, this may work financially for R&C, and I am sure R&C just sees you as painful and unrealistic. It's a shame because these are good designs, and just a little more care and attention by the builder would solve many of these issues before launch.
Certain Robertson and Caine employees attempted to make us feel like we were unrealistic and painful in Cape Town. Since leaving what was the microcosm of Cape Town, many people from all different backgrounds and with many highly experienced people viewing the boat, nobody thinks that we are the issue anymore except three or four of the same keyboard warriors worried about their hull values who periodically send us hate mail. Lines are crossed when water is running onto electrical for example. That isn't acceptable on a cruisers boat or a charter. If they want to sell vessels advertised to cross oceans then build them, if they want to build bath tub charter boats, build Bali's.
Agreed with all that. Hopefully one day all this will be behind you . And hopefully your honest series of videos will have an effect on boat builders to either be better, or be honest about what they want their boats used for.
I would LOVE to b a fly on the wall at one of their internal meetings they have, to decide how to handle ur guys claims?! Can u imagine what those conversations would b like to hear??
I responded to the original showing that you put out and in it I stated and I reiterate that I would never buy from a supplier who has such a disgraceful record of poor and totally inadequate after sales service. Please remember anyone considering buying one of these craft that whilst R&C have not appeared to have acted within their own terms of reference the initial responsibility lies with the manufacturer who created the problem in the first place! They should concede that ultimately they will be the losers in this and should supply the funding for all repairs without delay or supply a new boat forthwith! Good Luck ❤
They would likely have swapped the boat but that doesn't replace the extensive upgrades, rebuilds and account for all other costs. You then begin the process from the beginning with the high probability of a non disclosure agreement hanging over your head to silence you. Really after the manufacturer flips your hull for a profit, you're left as the only loser.
This is why you either have an third party account of verified funds, to be paid out at the completion of the contract, meaning after final survey to accept the build. Or a bank note that you have the funds ready on your account, or approved loan that is verified to be paid out only by the purchaser of the house/boat/etc after the contract has been completed. I don't understand why this isn't the case all around the world.. Like Royal Caribbean's latest ship being build, they don't own it yet and they haven't paid a dime for it yet. In fact various governments are backing the loans for the ship dockyard to build the ship... Only after accepting the ship Royal Caribbean's will pay the dockyard...
Really what you need in this time period to buy a yacht is 1. a law degree in the country of business. 2. a degree in shipbuilding or be prepared to pay an expert to do a week long survey before final payment which production ship builders usually won't allow. Paying a lawyer is like rolling a dice.
Its been a long time but this is similar to BUMFUZZLE with their Wildcat catamaran. They documented everything the company sent. I remember one point that they threatened to sue the sailors for slander and and all they had to say is that "these are your e-mails". The company closed a couple years later if I am correct.
Wow, we met you in Chaguramas last year. I knew you were working through warranty issues but didn’t realise the extent of those issues, nor the trouble you were having to get them resolved. We have a Leopard 44 - the predecessor to the 45 and while I wouldn’t pretend that it is perfect, we find it a solid dependable home - indeed we started in Thailand in 2021 and have sailed approximately 17,000 Nm to reach the Caribbean where we still are (waiting out hurricane season). It’s my personal view (without factual evidence) that the Leopard 45 was SO successful and so popular, they couldn’t build them fast enough. So they took on extra staff to up the building rate (to keep up with demand) but didn’t have time to train the new guys properly and as a result standards slipped. But that doesn’t explain the response - unless you consider the number of claims being submitted 😳. I hope you are able to resolve all the issues in the not too distant future. Best wishes, John & Sandra. SV Knot So Bad
From Cape Town the original manufacturer built a beautiful boat and then sold it to a mass production builder. Sad to see how much energy was invested in poor customer service when it would have been so much easier and productive to fix the problem and learn from the mistakes. May you have clear sailing ahead.
You guys are awesome for not taking the money and cashing for they sake of your voice. SHAME ON YOU R&C and Leopard Boats... You are suppose to sell dreams, not kill them
Thanks for the comments and support. End of the day there is a limit to how much BS customers will put up with and stay quiet. R&C's overall treatment of the boys and the quality of the boat went beyond unacceptable.
Thank you for mentioning "fix the window with flex tape"! I'd been thinking that I need to scrape and caulk with "appropriate caulk". Silly and time consuming! I'm just gonna butyl-tape this dang thing together and SAIL! :-)
Thank you for sharing, terrible what they've done to you. Sadly, I wonder if the poor treatment was a symptom of the company buying Robertson & Caine. We will be buying our "dream" boat in the coming couple years, this will certainly make us think twice about who we buy from.
You really couldn't make this up if it were not so tragic! I can only wish you well in your quest for truth and justice and I sincerely hope that there might be say a retired KC who would be happy to assist you (Pro Bono) redress the "David and Goliath" Hades situation. Fair winds should you get to sea...
Thank you very much for your infirmative video. You are doing the right thing . Don't give into these greedy boatbuilders. I aplaud you. .Im very sorry for your suffering.
A good reason not to buy a new boat from any company..... including new RVs as well. All my boats and RVs have been previously owned which in my case has resulted in a problem free purchase for me! :)
I am in awe of your determination guys going through this nightmare since delivery. We were looking at buying a Leopard in 2020-21 and just before signing on the dotting line, opted out as a second wave of COVID was hitting SA, with riots in the street and political unrest. In spite of the reassurance of local representative here Downunder and after seeing videos from R&C factory, we could not be sufficiently reassured that the quality of product would not leave to be desired. Some YT experiences also started to come out telling of warranty issues... Really hope you can see the end of this soon and sail away...
Thanks for the comment and support. We don't believe Covid had much to do with this as the factory had essential service status and we know more details than we have published so far. There were no riots in Cape Town and it was reasonably normal.
@@travelsketch Did not mean by any means to mitigate the manufacturer's monumental, irresponsible failings in workmanship, warranty and PR. Don't they have an Ombudsman of some kind in SA?
@@richochet5536 Nothing we can be bothered wasting time engaging with. SA is not a safe place. Attacking their revenue cow and winning would likely not be good for your health.
Criticize the ongoing video by this group but please don’t forget that many of these owners experiencing the Boeing style of denial is devastating for these owners. My alignment with the brand came to an end when I got the call from the owner of the biggest L58 spec still to date with feedback of structural damage that ended his Catamaran ownership, “ I just can’t continue to fix defects” Feel for these owners who in many cases invest most of their wealth in the boat and just never get resolution on the defects, much like the Boeing saga in which denial is the style of public response to what is rooted in poor quality construction. Those who know me, know it’s taken many years to go public on this, too invested in the brand that comes out of my home country. Its taken courage by those involved is displaying Leopard warranty issues, Well said by SV Utopia, “ ACTIONS speak loader than words, start fixing these boats rather than promises that expand over years. YEARS without results. Look at what SV Sisu is doing now, it’s a shame, truly disgusting.
Well done. Obviously one would avoid them like the plague. Another consideration is any second hand boats must be suspect, both in workmanship under construction and any repairs carried out (or not) under warranty. I have owned and sailed 12+mtr multihulls and was looking to go 40mtrs on my retirement, rest assured you can guess what I will not purchase. Cheers and thanks for your tireless efforts and I trust you will have justice in the end. Happy sails (eventually) and may the wind always be at your back
Disgraceful conduct by Robertson and Caine. Reading between the lines I now understand why the insurance company is haggling with not paying out another channels Leppard that burnt to ashes. Used to absolutely love Leopard boats but would not touch one now.
Sorry to hear about your woeful experience when buying a new cruising catamaran…it does not appear that the warranty is worth the paper it was printed on … while I am still considering what cat to buy, I am certainly now interested in other manufacturers.
Yes the warranty is not worth much from R&C. Leopard from the beginning has been fixing issues at their cost all caused by poor work from R&C. It is still ongoing and has gotten very serious.
Well I was considering spending a few million $ on a Leopard but after seeing this video I have decided to go with Fontaine Pajot thanks for the heads up. I wish the best of luck dealing with the “Scabs of Leopard”…
Glad if we helped. Please contact the shipbuilder with a short note if you have time, to encourage them to make our situation right if you think we helped you avoid hardship.
There are some nice used ones out there with extensive upgrades. I'm seen some really nice 45s and 48s especially. People do some great structural work and even install glass windows.
You think you got it bad go find the story of delivery skipper Reg Robertson who lost his life in a leopard cat that sunk off the new Zealand coast. The coverups from Robertson and Caine is very sad
If the boys were less prepared, more ignorant and in worse weather, they absolutely could have sunk in the Atlantic with the initial state of the windows and the ones they refused to change anyway one peeling off.
😂 so have never seen any of your videos until now. R&C would have been better off not fighting you. I would have never see this channel otherwise. New sub now👍
As hard as your story is, it’s an issue with the whole industry. We had the same experience with a French built 43’ monohull. The yard had the bad faith, arrogance, delays, incompetency, incorrect invoicing. We had huge critical issues with just about everything with an estimated surveyed fixing costs in the hundred and fifty thousand euro. It ended up with a law suit against their insurance company as the company rapidly filed for administrative bankruptcy. With a corrupt local court we won a meagre settlement after 12 years, but with resulting mental health, health, lost dream and financial losses.
A common story of court and then settlement that doesn't even rectify the situation. The problem is that nobody sees the silent suffering. Why we are determined to force change and are currently doing so.
I love that NAUGAHYDE is specifically mentioned in the BS TOS. 🤪 Also "I...'sailboat racing'" when everyone knows that ANY time two boats are on the water at the same time is is ALWAYS a "race"! Yep. NOTHING is EVER covered by this company.
We were seriously thinking of buying a L45. No more. It is puzzling that a company would treat its customers like this. Also the fact that you are not an isolated case. We will probably buy an older model with the kinks already worked out of it.
Please let them know so they do better by us. The shipbuilder is the issue. If you understand the dynamic between the builder and broker it makes sense.
Clearly their warranty program is to try and wait out the owners, and the warranty period and hope you give up fix it yourself so you can get sailing . Had a brother in law have that happen with his car , they engine had a piston problem and they did everything to say it was not one and try to wait till it was out of warranty . Finally in the end they fixed it and the dealer stocked the pistons - you do not stock pistons if it is not a known problem .
wahooo .... i was considering purshasing a 2d hand leopard which is staying in europe, but thks to your very instructive videos I d prefer to look for another trademarke... All your sad story could be summarised in "R&C laid the emphasis in marketing, but quality and aftersale services arent their strong points".
In this case, the warranty is worth Negative 100K euro + 2 yrs of lost opportunity costs + 2 yeas of counseling for mental stress. So any potential buyer of a new Leopard needs to add another 250K euro to their new boat budget for all the warranty, opportunity and mental health costs that Leopard will not reimburse them for. It's really a disgrace the way this company has treated you. They have the deep pockets and know they can stall and wait you out until you give up or sell the boat. Their short term savings from ignoring you will have large long term consequences. Good for you taking the high road and alerting the current Cat customers about the Quality Control issues and lack of accountability with warranty. Wishing you some good luck.
Community service award goes to you guys for information shared.
If the manufacturer will not support a new owner, it leads me to believe there will be non-existent support for owners of older boats.
That has always been true of yachts.
May I ask, what lead you to think there was OEM support for owners of older, "out of warranty" boats??
IF the yacht builder is 1. still an open for business AND 2. they are financially healthy, then MAYBE 3. they would be willing to 4. get PAID for advice or for any work done for you. Other than that it's business as usual... Caveat Emptor.
PS
BTW... I was absolutely SOLD on the Caliber 40 LRC as my dream boat back when I was first boat shopping. AMAZING design and a serious blue water boat! LOVE the Calibers... (but I'm too big (not fat)... too tall... and they are just a tad to "tight" inside for me to live comfortably... otherwise I can almost guarantee you I would be living aboard a Caliber 40 LRC right now. Great boat.
So buy OLD boats that were built like TANKS, and stop buying these balsa wood toys. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You will not be the only ones... This is not a mistake this is the way they do business.
Its great you make this public and let others know what they are getting into.
The moral to this story is “Never buy a new or used boat, built by Robertson and Caine.”
They should have gotten a lawyer at the first sign of pushback from Leopard.
Leopard and Lagoon - dodgy AF
@@kodiak7 logon too? I’m amazed how many people take ownership of new boats and have problems with them and pass it off as “boat ownership problems”
And you paid HOW MUCH for this vessel?????? Wow. Atrocious. Thanks so much for your honesty and insight to this situation. BUYER…………..BEWARE!!!
There is not a single boat manufacturer which does warranty service other than superficial which is FAR cheaper to just do it yourself and then ONLY if it is right next to their manufacturing facility.
Thank you for doing what's right and not taking the money and keeping quiet, I can't even begin to imagine the stress and frustration you guys must be going through.
Thank you, we are lucky that we are a team and have lots of support. Thanks for the comment
I am asked often, twice today in fact, if I have taken a deal and signed some form of NDA for cash and reparations. I haven't, it is a hard choice to put what is right before personal gain and the gain of your friends but have so far at substantial loss as you say. There can be significant negatives to taking a deal. They just may not be immediately evident.
My wife and I fell in love with the L45/L50's and thanks to your video we are know more informed consumers. Thank you and keep up the good work.
Anyone who is watching these videos would never ever buy a new or even used leopard and rightly so. I’m so very sorry for the anguish you are experiencing , it must be very traumatic! Your vids will get the message out and hopefully Robertson and Caine and their leopard boats will get what they deserve!
Thank you for the support, it's appreciated :)
Wow, eye opening. Every buyer needs to be aware and consider effects of this blatant unethical behavior. Thanks for sharing.
I had very similar experiences, on a much smaller scale, at the hands of Eastern Boats in Milton NH USA. Once it's built and paid for and gone . . . it's gone in these manufacturer's minds. We work hard to buy these things, and likely didn't get where we are by treating people the way some manufacturers do. Good report, thank you.
:) thanks, yes I very much agree.
Sadly you are not the first channel to have major problems with Robertson & Caine, and even more sadly you probably will not be the last. Now I wish I had downloaded and saved all of the previous videos. It also seems that TH-cam is very gracious to any body with money and does not hesitate to shaft all of the little people....makes it hard for the viewers and subscribers when goliaths are so willing to censor the truth and the facts. Keep up the work and will keep watching....All the best to you and your mates!!
Longer videos are independently hosted and linked above where you can see more content under videos and Leopard 45 review. 😎
I have been thinking of buying a leopard 45 until now. Thank you for enlightening me.
Please let the shipbuilder know to make our situation right if this helped you
I am so sorry that you've had this experience. I am thinking about purchasing a new boat to get back on the water, and after hear complaints from others and seeing this video, I know that I will be avoiding any boat that has Rodertson and Caine involved in its construction. Thanks you so much for posting this video.
As a South African, I am really ashamed of the run around and poor service you have received from Leopard and R&C. As a owner of a tech company, I am fully aware of how technical support, or the lack thereof, can make or break a company. While I’m sure some other manufacturers of boats also tend to skimp on support particularly when it effects their bottom line, these guys seem to have taken this to new low. Wake up R&C, do the right thing, or get ready to hemorrhage a lot more $$, than what’s at stake here.
Hopefully, you are able to get all of the issues resolved soon! I recommend you speak with several other sailing channels about a maritime/new boat build lawyer to get the contact information, just in case. (e.g. NautiGuys, Barefoot Doctors, Sailing Into Freedom, Gone with the Wynns, Sketch to Sea, etc.) All the best!
There are a couple of sailing channels offering their assistance. Trent wanted to give the parties involved a chance to do the right thing and change their behaviour before escalating things.
Thank you for sharing. We will not consider any Robertson and Cain boat and will discourage all friends and family from buying from this ship builder. It’s truly shameful and they don’t deserve to stay in business
Feel free to let the ship builder know, to encourage them to make our situation right if we have potentially saved you some hardship. :)
Thank you for this! We have spent a good bit of time fixing our boat
Thank you very much for posting this. I had been considering leopard catamarans.
My heart breaks for you😢.
Thank you for the support, it's appreciated :)
Thank you so much for sharing your experience with Robertson & Cain . I am looking to purchase a Catamaran in the next 18months and a Leopard was high on the list. Not anymore, As you rightfully pointed out as a retiree I dont wish to spend my first years playing a warranty game with what seems to be incompetent builders but also bad after service. Sorry Leopard you are off my list.
Please let the shipbuilder know that our experience influenced your decision so they do better. Thanks for the support.
Excellent work and tenacity holding your ground here. Thank you for exposing this.
Thank you for the support :) cheers
Wow, thank you so much. Wife and I are retiring soon, wanted to get a catamaran and have looked at the Leopard 45. No way in H#$$ would I buy a Leopard now.
I was also deeply offended by the disgraceful attitude towards their customers. Like you, I was seriously considering buying a Leopard catamaran. Now, I won't. Buying such a catamaran means buying complete disregard from its manufacturer. And I don't need that at all.
Thanks for sharing. You have probably saved a lot of people from experiencing the same thing. You would thing with the amount of social media out there a company would do everything it possibly could to make things right just to avoid bad PR. Everyone makes mistakes, it's how you handle the aftermath of the situation is where it counts. Companies who behave poorly tend not to stay in business very long.
Hopefully all outcomes are positive for as many people as possible. Hopefully there is a clean up at R&C and short sighted people who think that it is OK to produce boats and situations like this don't keep doing it.
I really feel for you guys and it’s a credit too you for putting on a brave face while shaming this company
Thanks for the support and watching
I’m glad you have the energy and resources to hold them to account. Don’t buy from them. If you are in their order queue, cancel and accept the loss of deposit. You will save in the long term.
People will make the world a better place by doing this as well. They will be forced to make us right and check themselves.
Thanks for the great video. We all need good information about bad builders.
Great job on the video. A small Segway I am in the industry of litigation and this is the number one problem that we have with insurance companies. The insurance companies do not want to cover anything and prefer to deny coverage and then it goes to trial.
For anyone briefly confused, segway = segue.
What was our Robertson & Caine Yacht Warranty Worth? lol Nothing at all by the looks of it. I wont be buying a LEOPARD CATAMARAN or anything ells they sell. What a bunch of Wankers.
Hats of for making a stand.
👍
I had a small issue decades ago with a new car purchase, it was a nightmare I cannot imagine the hardship you must have gone through.
I do not know how that works in your country but in Canada & USA when you purchase a new boat it is not un-usual to include a surveyor to visit the build at different point in time to ensure the boat is being built properly.
Amazing, in the second to last sentence they are basically saying that if they installed a Lewmar windlass and the windlass is defective you should deal with Lewmar and not them. That is crazy.
This is my first video watch on this but I am going to visit the rest of your channel to get the entire story!
Thanks for the support. You have touched on a grey area. We have had numerous items damaged by the shipyard's poor installation. Who pays for that? The manufacturer shouldn't have to. Turns into total BS and arguments. A warranty not worth having for live aboard cruisers.
We are so happy you placed this video as we are/ were seriously considering a L42 but no longer…. Either no boat or something manufactured closer to where we will use the boat
Please contact the shipbuilder and let them know so they do better if we helped you. :) thanks
KUDOS to y'all for DOING THE RIGHT THING, and not caving to threats and bullying from unscrupulous jerks, nor taking any payola to stay quiet! Y'all are GOOD people in an industry of mostly good people, and a few scumbags. We need to always call out the scumbags publicly so the good people can continue helping each other. Thank you!
Thank you so much for the comments and support. :)
I love the Australian power and tenacity as a captain I am in shock of how poorly Leopard handled this situation Leopard has lost more money NOT doing the right thing then selling more boats good luck Leopard
Roberson and Caine sound like the boat building wing of the ANC. Good luck....
I will mark Leopard and Robertson and Caine off my list. Thank you!
Please let them know so they make our situation right. The more people tell them the more encouragement to be better.
A warranty from them is worth nothing if they can't even agree to fix something like a critical crossbeam. I always thought that Leopards were built well and were considering a new Leopard at the 2024 Annapolis boat show but now we will need to think more critically about our decision.
Please let the builder know to encourage them to change their attitude and make our situation better if we helped you potentially avoid some hardship.
Thank you for sharing your experiences, apparently this seems to be more common thru out the industry based on other new boats videos that I have seen. You would think that the negative publicity would get them to correct their ways. Good luck, I hope you are able to resolve the issues going forward.
The problem is the contract between the broker and builder. The toxic attitude towards customers that some employees at the shipbuilder seem to have who are totally detached from the reality of living aboard a boat full time.
I am so sorry you had to go through all of this. Thank you so much for sharing your story and making people aware of the pitfalls of purchasing a Leopard catamaran. One would hope that a company of that stature would stand behind their products and do the right thing. I hope this all works out for you in the end and they will step up to the plate.
The broker was trying to help us but I think it all got too much for them and they were taken advantage of by the contractor.
Thanks for doing this. I don't believe it is just Leopard brand that has this issue (perhaps not to the same extent as yours). I was just talking to a Lagoon owner that is extremely frustrated with warranty work. I personally own a Bali and hear the same story from other Bali owners about warranty work. My guess is that unless the government gets involved, nothing will change.
Leopard and Travelopia have not been the issue and have often been extremely helpful beyond what you would expect. I sat in a meeting with Trent and Travelopia management and it was easy to tell from body language that they share some of our frustrations with the boat builder.
@@travelsketch I'm missing something here, if not Leopard then who is the bad guy?...the responsible party for making things right?
@@timhardman4764 Leopard Catamarans is a brand under Travelopia who is owned by KKR. Leopard is currently the only private broker for Robertson and Caine built hulls so have had a very close relationship with them. Travelopia have large charter fleets and extensive shipbuilding knowledge in their own right imo. Due to their components and the way that warranty complaints are processed between themselves and R&C, they have a strong interested in helping us repair out boat and get us back on the water. To be honest, most of their customer service has been extremely good and beyond what they should have had to do. My issues are not with Leopard who have done a lot to help us and clean up the large mess made by R&C. If Leopard sold a boat that was from a different shipbuilder I would recommend them as a broker.
@@travelsketch I think you're being too kind to Leopard. At the end of the day, you purchased a boat from Leopard ... and they should be taking care of you instead of putting it all on R&C. But no matter who is or should be responsible for fixes, I can't imagine buying a Leopard (even if built by another yard) due to their inability to make it right to you.
@@adamgoldberg Well Leopard is attempting to fix the boat and upgrade it with very high quality work so that is something. That said Trent is still out of pocket what to me is a massive sum of money from costs incurred due to the boat failing. That said they haven't said they won't cover them and have slowly been paying items off so far without an NDA which is highly commendable. That said with R&C QC at the state it is we could not recommend the boat builder at this time until they choose transparency and do the right thing.
I answer NO to all the questions you posed. I would not touch a Leopard yacht with a 10 foot pole given your experiences coupled with the bulkhead issue that is widely known and reported.
Re atanothercar comment. The internet is the last bastion of the individual the only place where the little guy can take a stand against companies who don't deserve to be in business. This stand at enormous personal cost has already made a difference because I directed a couple who were about to buy a Leopard to this site. Needless to say they have changed their mind about buying a Leopard catamaran. In the circumstances only a fool would enter any commercial arrangement with this brand. It's because of the integrity of this small group of people we are aware of the rubbish that's coming out of R&C yard and we can make an informed decision. Good riddins to R&C I hope you get what you deserve!
Thank you for understanding and the support.
Unbelievable that this nonsense is still going on. Tad and I really feel for you guys. Hugs.
We were surprised when this started at this late stage and we started hearing rumours from Cape Town that instead of being constructive they are back to thinking of silly ways to cause drama in the background. They would be better off spending their time and money on mechanisms to improve QC and some basic customer service training.
Did R&C ever offer to replace your boat entirely? I would think this would be their best way to address what seems like a lemon you guys unfortunately were dealt. Leopards used to have a reputation as one of the "better" quality production boats and I always thought being a major supplier to Moorings/Sunsail would ensure they upheld their standard as these boats are eventually remarketed.
This option is way more complicated than it sounds. It was initially rejected very early in Cape Town when I verbally raised it and asked if this is really the boat they want on Yotuube and they only raised it again recently with the TH-cam feedback. We have upgraded the hull way to much for that now. I also won't sign an NDA which I'm going to assume that option will come with.
Oh, so sorry that a once in a lifetime purchase went bad for you. EVERYTHING I have seen about the Leopard Cats have been so positive. Thank you for providing this video about your experience. R & C and their warranty puts the Leopard into a no-go as far as I am concerned.
Please let the shipbuilder know why you made this decision if you appreciate our review. We are definitely not the only owners with warranty issues. We have multiple boats in the yard with us right now with issues, the model specific owners groups are full of sometimes repeat issues. The Leopard Catamaran Owners group deletes most negative media and is run by brokers.
Yup, I won’t even look at a R&C now. Thanks.
This information is valuable and I'll help spread the word.
Thank you, this is probably one of the only things that keeps large companies honest now. Individuals often want to do the right thing but may fear for their jobs by speaking out.
when i sold our second boat, one near buyer said, all boats have problems, at least you have honestly listed them... I thought that was kind of him to say, but now I hear this, I guess he was right
We have or had others rebuild almost all of them now. So we understand the hull and have more confidence in it.
I think it is disgusting how you have been treated. I take my hat of to for what you are doing to help others understand the risk involved with buying a Leopard. Especially their lack of customer service in dealing with warranty claims.
Thank you, I hate having to feature in this TH-cam stuff personally but it feels like its the right thing to do. The channel was never meant to be for this.
Thank you. You are an asset to anyone thinking of buying a boat. Hopefully this has a happy ending for you.
Thank you, we hope we have helped.
i can imagine the stress and frustration you all feel and of course the wasted time that you have had to endure ,you all show a lot of courage and integrity , after such a huge investment you would expect and from a large company that they would be more than willing to rectify warranty issues not only to protect their brand but more importantly to make the customer experience good as i`m sure they did when you were handing over your hard earned money !! quality of work is paramount for safety when your in the ocean they seem to forgot that peoples lives can be at stake , 🧐
Thank you for the support :)
Love your videos and your coolness!! ❤
This is the same company which built boats with under-deck life raft lockers that broke off during heavy weather leaving a gaping hole in the deck, and without the life raft, which was washed away. See Curiousity at Gone with the Wynns, but theirs wasn't the only one.
Yeah we saw that. Sad isn't it.
I was planning on buying a cat when I retire in 3 years. It won't be a R&C boat after watching this.
Hang in there, you guys are all most there!
😃 Teesh and Tynan post the videos but the comments motivate me haha
:)
I cannot imagine going through this. Hopeful for positive changes as a result of your experience.
Thank you for the support. While the boat repairs are coming along, we're aiming to see a positive outcome on a macro level as well that benefits not just us, but current and future owners too.
Thanks for the information, I will not be buying a Leopard boat. Maybe the new owners will clean house and be the company you want to do business with.
We have ordered a new catamaran (not by this builder) and stories like this are frightening. I sometimes hear issues like this but it is often where the buyer owns hull number 1-10, thus where production issues haven't been perfected yet. The Leopard 45 has no such excuse, and this seems to be more of an example of volume over quality. Given that most Leopards go into the charter market, where users do not have the same expectations/needs as full time cruisers, this may work financially for R&C, and I am sure R&C just sees you as painful and unrealistic. It's a shame because these are good designs, and just a little more care and attention by the builder would solve many of these issues before launch.
Certain Robertson and Caine employees attempted to make us feel like we were unrealistic and painful in Cape Town. Since leaving what was the microcosm of Cape Town, many people from all different backgrounds and with many highly experienced people viewing the boat, nobody thinks that we are the issue anymore except three or four of the same keyboard warriors worried about their hull values who periodically send us hate mail. Lines are crossed when water is running onto electrical for example. That isn't acceptable on a cruisers boat or a charter. If they want to sell vessels advertised to cross oceans then build them, if they want to build bath tub charter boats, build Bali's.
Agreed with all that. Hopefully one day all this will be behind you . And hopefully your honest series of videos will have an effect on boat builders to either be better, or be honest about what they want their boats used for.
I would LOVE to b a fly on the wall at one of their internal meetings they have, to decide how to handle ur guys claims?!
Can u imagine what those conversations would b like to hear??
thats why buying a nearly new baot is the best option let someone else live through the pain
Yep doesn't seem worth the premium does it.
I responded to the original showing that you put out and in it I stated and I reiterate that I would never buy from a supplier who has such a disgraceful record of poor and totally inadequate after sales service. Please remember anyone considering buying one of these craft that whilst R&C have not appeared to have acted within their own terms of reference the initial responsibility lies with the manufacturer who created the problem in the first place! They should concede that ultimately they will be the losers in this and should supply the funding for all repairs without delay or supply a new boat forthwith! Good Luck ❤
They would likely have swapped the boat but that doesn't replace the extensive upgrades, rebuilds and account for all other costs. You then begin the process from the beginning with the high probability of a non disclosure agreement hanging over your head to silence you. Really after the manufacturer flips your hull for a profit, you're left as the only loser.
This is why you either have an third party account of verified funds, to be paid out at the completion of the contract, meaning after final survey to accept the build. Or a bank note that you have the funds ready on your account, or approved loan that is verified to be paid out only by the purchaser of the house/boat/etc after the contract has been completed. I don't understand why this isn't the case all around the world.. Like Royal Caribbean's latest ship being build, they don't own it yet and they haven't paid a dime for it yet. In fact various governments are backing the loans for the ship dockyard to build the ship... Only after accepting the ship Royal Caribbean's will pay the dockyard...
Really what you need in this time period to buy a yacht is 1. a law degree in the country of business. 2. a degree in shipbuilding or be prepared to pay an expert to do a week long survey before final payment which production ship builders usually won't allow. Paying a lawyer is like rolling a dice.
Thank you for your effort.
Hope we helped you out.
Its been a long time but this is similar to BUMFUZZLE with their Wildcat catamaran. They documented everything the company sent. I remember one point that they threatened to sue the sailors for slander and and all they had to say is that "these are your e-mails". The company closed a couple years later if I am correct.
We have a LOT of documentation and recordings.
Thank you for the video of that situation, I shall be very wary of my dream catarmaran in the future.
Wow, we met you in Chaguramas last year. I knew you were working through warranty issues but didn’t realise the extent of those issues, nor the trouble you were having to get them resolved. We have a Leopard 44 - the predecessor to the 45 and while I wouldn’t pretend that it is perfect, we find it a solid dependable home - indeed we started in Thailand in 2021 and have sailed approximately 17,000 Nm to reach the Caribbean where we still are (waiting out hurricane season). It’s my personal view (without factual evidence) that the Leopard 45 was SO successful and so popular, they couldn’t build them fast enough. So they took on extra staff to up the building rate (to keep up with demand) but didn’t have time to train the new guys properly and as a result standards slipped. But that doesn’t explain the response - unless you consider the number of claims being submitted 😳. I hope you are able to resolve all the issues in the not too distant future. Best wishes, John & Sandra. SV Knot So Bad
Thanks for saying hi :) Not much we can do about the mess they made but clean it up.
From Cape Town the original manufacturer built a beautiful boat and then sold it to a mass production builder. Sad to see how much energy was invested in poor customer service when it would have been so much easier and productive to fix the problem and learn from the mistakes. May you have clear sailing ahead.
Thanks for the comment and support :)
Wow!!! Leopard 45 has been my bucket list boat until watching this
You guys are awesome for not taking the money and cashing for they sake of your voice.
SHAME ON YOU R&C and Leopard Boats... You are suppose to sell dreams, not kill them
Thanks for the comments and support. End of the day there is a limit to how much BS customers will put up with and stay quiet. R&C's overall treatment of the boys and the quality of the boat went beyond unacceptable.
Thank you for mentioning "fix the window with flex tape"! I'd been thinking that I need to scrape and caulk with "appropriate caulk". Silly and time consuming! I'm just gonna butyl-tape this dang thing together and SAIL! :-)
In an emergency**** ;D haha
@@travelsketch It is an emergency! Boat WORK is preventing SAILING! ;-)
Thank you for sharing, terrible what they've done to you. Sadly, I wonder if the poor treatment was a symptom of the company buying Robertson & Caine. We will be buying our "dream" boat in the coming couple years, this will certainly make us think twice about who we buy from.
You really couldn't make this up if it were not so tragic! I can only wish you well in your quest for truth and justice and I sincerely hope that there might be say a retired KC who would be happy to assist you (Pro Bono) redress the "David and Goliath" Hades situation. Fair winds should you get to sea...
Thank you very much for your infirmative video. You are doing the right thing . Don't give into these greedy boatbuilders. I aplaud you. .Im very sorry for your suffering.
Thank you for the support :)
Thank you, this was instructive.
great :)
As a lawyer, my feeling is that not going through a lawyer skilled in contracts was/is a mistake - even if you won’t go for the NDA and settlement.
Why is that? Send us a message on our site if you have a good idea. We are just doing our best.
A good reason not to buy a new boat from any company..... including new RVs as well. All my boats and RVs have been previously owned which in my case has resulted in a problem free purchase for me! :)
I am in awe of your determination guys going through this nightmare since delivery. We were looking at buying a Leopard in 2020-21 and just before signing on the dotting line, opted out as a second wave of COVID was hitting SA, with riots in the street and political unrest. In spite of the reassurance of local representative here Downunder and after seeing videos from R&C factory, we could not be sufficiently reassured that the quality of product would not leave to be desired. Some YT experiences also started to come out telling of warranty issues... Really hope you can see the end of this soon and sail away...
Thanks for the comment and support. We don't believe Covid had much to do with this as the factory had essential service status and we know more details than we have published so far. There were no riots in Cape Town and it was reasonably normal.
@@travelsketch Did not mean by any means to mitigate the manufacturer's monumental, irresponsible failings in workmanship, warranty and PR. Don't they have an Ombudsman of some kind in SA?
@@richochet5536 Nothing we can be bothered wasting time engaging with. SA is not a safe place. Attacking their revenue cow and winning would likely not be good for your health.
This video showed up on my feed because I had been watching videos of other leopards and considering a 51PC. Message received, moving on
Let them know if we helped you. We want them to pony up with a fair settlement and stop wasting our time
Criticize the ongoing video by this group but please don’t forget that many of these owners experiencing the Boeing style of denial is devastating for these owners. My alignment with the brand came to an end when I got the call from the owner of the biggest L58 spec still to date with feedback of structural damage that ended his Catamaran ownership, “ I just can’t continue to fix defects” Feel for these owners who in many cases invest most of their wealth in the boat and just never get resolution on the defects, much like the Boeing saga in which denial is the style of public response to what is rooted in poor quality construction. Those who know me, know it’s taken many years to go public on this, too invested in the brand that comes out of my home country. Its taken courage by those involved is displaying Leopard warranty issues, Well said by SV Utopia, “ ACTIONS speak loader than words, start fixing these boats rather than promises that expand over years. YEARS without results. Look at what SV Sisu is doing now, it’s a shame, truly disgusting.
Thanks for the support. R&C best rectify this situation before I detail everyone who is sick of their attitudes to customers and poor quality.
Wow, very timely video for us, second guessing our nearly finalized decision now. Looks like no R & C for us. Thanks
If we helped you in some way, please feel free to let them know so that they try and do better by us.
Robertson & Caine Sold in June of 2023. The Czech Republic investment fund PPF, Own it now. John Robertson, achieved “sailing into the sunset”.
100% behind you. No one spends 2 years of their life, and dreams turning into a nightmare, with no reason. Won't buy Leopard under any condition.
hi guys . my last comment said something about meaningful dialogue!!!!!.maybe meaningless would have been more accurate .keep smiling
🙂
Well done. Obviously one would avoid them like the plague. Another consideration is any second hand boats must be suspect, both in workmanship under construction and any repairs carried out (or not) under warranty. I have owned and sailed 12+mtr multihulls and was looking to go 40mtrs on my retirement, rest assured you can guess what I will not purchase. Cheers and thanks for your tireless efforts and I trust you will have justice in the end. Happy sails (eventually) and may the wind always be at your back
Thank you so much for the support and comment. Let the shipbuilder know if we helped you as this has cost us a lot to do what is right.
Thanks for telling us
Disgraceful conduct by Robertson and Caine. Reading between the lines I now understand why the insurance company is haggling with not paying out another channels Leppard that burnt to ashes. Used to absolutely love Leopard boats but would not touch one now.
Sorry to hear about your woeful experience when buying a new cruising catamaran…it does not appear that the warranty is worth the paper it was printed on … while I am still considering what cat to buy, I am certainly now interested in other manufacturers.
Yes the warranty is not worth much from R&C. Leopard from the beginning has been fixing issues at their cost all caused by poor work from R&C. It is still ongoing and has gotten very serious.
awesome
It's something alright
Well I was considering spending a few million $ on a Leopard but after seeing this video I have decided to go with Fontaine Pajot thanks for the heads up. I wish the best of luck dealing with the “Scabs of Leopard”…
Glad if we helped. Please contact the shipbuilder with a short note if you have time, to encourage them to make our situation right if you think we helped you avoid hardship.
I would still buy a used one but never a new one.
There are some nice used ones out there with extensive upgrades. I'm seen some really nice 45s and 48s especially. People do some great structural work and even install glass windows.
Remeber to do the non invasive scan by a professional first.
Hole in the water $$$...so sorry for your warranty issues
In the end it's cheaper and healthier to just buy an HH than anything made by R&C!! Fair winds, y'all!
You think you got it bad go find the story of delivery skipper Reg Robertson who lost his life in a leopard cat that sunk off the new Zealand coast. The coverups from Robertson and Caine is very sad
If the boys were less prepared, more ignorant and in worse weather, they absolutely could have sunk in the Atlantic with the initial state of the windows and the ones they refused to change anyway one peeling off.
😂 so have never seen any of your videos until now. R&C would have been better off not fighting you. I would have never see this channel otherwise. New sub now👍
Well said.
As hard as your story is, it’s an issue with the whole industry. We had the same experience with a French built 43’ monohull. The yard had the bad faith, arrogance, delays, incompetency, incorrect invoicing. We had huge critical issues with just about everything with an estimated surveyed fixing costs in the hundred and fifty thousand euro. It ended up with a law suit against their insurance company as the company rapidly filed for administrative bankruptcy. With a corrupt local court we won a meagre settlement after 12 years, but with resulting mental health, health, lost dream and financial losses.
A common story of court and then settlement that doesn't even rectify the situation. The problem is that nobody sees the silent suffering. Why we are determined to force change and are currently doing so.
You talked me out of buying any Leopard boat new or used.
Please let the shipbuilder know so they stop messing around.
I love that NAUGAHYDE is specifically mentioned in the BS TOS. 🤪 Also "I...'sailboat racing'" when everyone knows that ANY time two boats are on the water at the same time is is ALWAYS a "race"! Yep. NOTHING is EVER covered by this company.
Sue the bastards
We were seriously thinking of buying a L45. No more. It is puzzling that a company would treat its customers like this. Also the fact that you are not an isolated case. We will probably buy an older model with the kinks already worked out of it.
Please let them know so they do better by us. The shipbuilder is the issue. If you understand the dynamic between the builder and broker it makes sense.
Toilet paper seems appropriate. Not sure I'd look at buying a product boat these days as many seem to have issues.
selling boats for a million and can't provide proper warranty, such a shame🤬😡😡😡 thanks for sharing, now I know the leopards out of my list😈
Thanks for watching and the comment :)
Clearly their warranty program is to try and wait out the owners, and the warranty period and hope you give up fix it yourself so you can get sailing .
Had a brother in law have that happen with his car , they engine had a piston problem and they did everything to say it was not one and try to wait till it was out of warranty . Finally in the end they fixed it and the dealer stocked the pistons - you do not stock pistons if it is not a known problem .
Oh no, my African boat broke lol
wahooo .... i was considering purshasing a 2d hand leopard which is staying in europe, but thks to your very instructive videos I d prefer to look for another trademarke... All your sad story could be summarised in "R&C laid the emphasis in marketing, but quality and aftersale services arent their strong points".
Glad it was helpful
Now you know what happens when dealing with Roberson & Caine.
In this case, the warranty is worth Negative 100K euro + 2 yrs of lost opportunity costs + 2 yeas of counseling for mental stress. So any potential buyer of a new Leopard needs to add another 250K euro to their new boat budget for all the warranty, opportunity and mental health costs that Leopard will not reimburse them for. It's really a disgrace the way this company has treated you. They have the deep pockets and know they can stall and wait you out until you give up or sell the boat. Their short term savings from ignoring you will have large long term consequences. Good for you taking the high road and alerting the current Cat customers about the Quality Control issues and lack of accountability with warranty. Wishing you some good luck.
The total warranty repair costs are way higher than that quote.
This is a very bad experience, thank you for not hiding it. Well done !!