TAL-PHA vs ALPHA JUNO 2: Live VST vs Vintage Analog Synthesizer Shoot-Out!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.พ. 2025
- TAL-Pha is the brand new VST vintage synthesizer recreation of the Roland Alpha Juno 2 analog synthesizer from 1985, which I happen to have! Let's see how close the plugin sounds to the original!
►TAL-Pha: tal-software.c...
►My Chorus / Reverb Plugin (free for a limited time!): vultureculture...
►ROLAND D-50 PATCH LIBRARY: vultureculture...
►VINTAGE DRUM SAMPLES: vultureculture...
►SYNTH PLAYLIST: • SYNTHESIZERS - Vintage...
#vst #vstplugins #synth #synths #vintagesynth #synthesizer #analogsynth #musicproduction #sounddesign #sequencer #keyboardsounds #vintagesynthesizer #analogsynthesizer #synthwave #electronicmusic #80ssynth #freesynthplugin #musictechnology #retrosound #freepresets
#TALPha #roland #alphajuno
Yo shout-outs to that VU meter I didn't see exposing my shenanigans 😂
This plugin has sparked a reflection on why I invest so much of my time and resources into hardware synthesizers.
it's not the first one.. I love my MKS-50 but..
Especially the polyphonic box ones.. my Micromoog would be harder to emulate - and it has some kooky ins and outs that work with other synths and a sequencers in unpredictable ways.. I really love the MKS-50 though and prices aren't so high that a sale would be imperative either.
Me too! At this point the software is close to indistinguishable.
That's the advantage of the hardware here, the prices are some of the most reasonable (especially compared to modern synths)
@@VultureCulture I like the that the plugin can control the HW synth.. but would I be wrong to assume the MKS-50's PG 300 controller can do the same to the plugin?
It’s super incredible that we keep getting better and more choices of how to manipulate sound waves and line between the two types gets more blurry each day!
Seriously stellar video, Sir Culture. Really enjoying following your content!
Thank you very much Mr Davies!
You had me at "It's also a controller..." Yeah, I may well have to buy this, since I own an Alpha Juno-2 :)
As with basically ALL VST synths, there's just a bit more sizzle in the filter. I've never heard a VST that doesn't have that. When listening to them dry, side by side, it's actually quite noticeable. HOWEVER... You generally won't be using the Alpha Juno dry in a track. You'll want to add some reverb perhaps, do a bit of EQ, maybe some other effects, who knows. And by the time it's actually part of a track, you won't be able to tell the difference.
And you can definitely just filter it down to like 97% and solve that.
Such a feature rich controller / plugin!
Came to Atlanta and was gonna buy an HS-10....but the seller sold it before I got there......was fully serviced and under 400 bucks...well I decided while down there to go to Music Go Round....they had an Alpha Juno 1 for $400 and I could not resist......I need help.
That's awesome. I absolutely love the Alpha Juno's, I think they can sound so warm or brassy, depending on the resonance.
I think if you do the same comparison with Juno 106 you will find that it sounds very similar to TAL-U-NO-LX-V2 and BASSLINE 101.
It is surprising how good the BASSLINE 101 sounds in sounds inspired by the juno 60 or 106, and that is why I am not at all surprised that with Aplha Juno 2 they achieved the correct sound.
TAL for me has the best emulations of Roland classics.
Thanks for this video.
TAL really blew me away.
Examples on A were much fuller tone, and B were brighter, other then that very close.
more editor plugins need to make sounds. this is the best feature on any one of these regardless of how close it sounds or doesn't.
100%!
@@VultureCulture imagine moog sub37 🥲
I have a Alpha Juno 1, I think A is the real thing at 0:13 and TAL at 0:37, but its very close. It just feels a little stiffer.
Yes, A sounds better. At least over the phone.
Edit: Just realized that A is TAL. Great!
Yes, time to sell my Alpha, its just taking up space now! 😅
Great plugin and amazing comparison ! :-)
Thank you very much, I'm glad you enjoyed the stream!
It wasn't obvious during the first round but during the second one, I definitely notived a less cohesive sound with option B, so I knew it was TAL.
Do you think it was a big enough difference to justify the price?
I've blocked out the VU meter on the Talpha.. see if i can pick it without cheating... :)
Awesome sounds ☺♥♪ ALPHA JUNO 2 ♥
Love the Alpha Juno
I am demo'ing the Tal-Pha and it is so freaking close it really boggles the mind.
Even the chorus is pretty good, but there the hardware really shines but the difference is pretty slim which is a great thing :)
Don't forget to check out my chorus plugin Inktomi, based off a famous Japanese analog synth's fx section. It's free! vultureculture.live/pages/inktomi
You think anyone will hear that difference in a mix?
In a mix No, it’s mostly a matter of personal preference in regards to workflow and as many point out; hardware is just more fun to use until you run out of space,$$, and can have quirks that could add to creativity and in many cases sound better but not always.
In a mix, listener’s could care less if it sounds good to them.
Basically, I have not added anything to this conversation but leaving this comment is a reminder to myself 🥳 -says to self in mirror - ( Read my lips - No New Hardware ) 🤣
@@VultureCulture yeah only for PC.
@@frankstetka7206 The Juno-2 is not exactly user-friendly and while the programmer works great, it's more clutter and cables than you want to deal with. I love messing around with the MKS-50 via the programmer, but it is bulky and tedious when space is tight.
Do you know of any VSTs that emulate tones close to the MOOG Grandmother? How about the JX-3P?
I don't off the top of my head but TAL does a Jupiter 8 plugin that should be pretty similar to the JX3P
@@VultureCulture thank you for doing all the deep dives! Appreciate the reply.
I think you can get a lifetime key from Roland for their JX-3P plugin. I think it'll be expensive though!
Nice recreation from TAL.
how do oyu use the software as a controller for the AJ in detail? please explain!
It was as simple as hooking up a midi cable to my synth, pressing the sysex button in the plugin and routing the midi through my midi out port on my interface.
I use Reaper as a DAW, you need to use a DAW that passes sysex info
oh great. so easy. thank you. Can you also import sysex FROM the juno and save patches in the VST plugin? thank you sooo much@@VultureCulture
@hansikrusche5151 I am not sure but the plugin has all the presets from the AJ2 built into it
You have varying degrees how analog a dco is , in the juno 2 it makes waves from a core through a digital waveshaper for the modulation waves so it is defenitely in the more digital category than other dco's
Can I get a source on that?
@@VultureCulture it is based on a digital divider, and so cannot produce a smooth variable frequency. Instead it can only produce various discrete frequencies, depending on the value in the divider. When a modulation is applied to the DCO, the frequency actually steps through various values of the divider under control of the microprocessor. If these steps are not close enough, the result will be audible zippering noise
I did a bunch of digging through schematics and old forum posts but I couldn't find a reputable source on what you're saying. Would love to find one.
I have been HANGING for a clone of the AlphaJuno/MKS 50, needless to say I will be Fothin'at the jocks when that time comes...lol
Do you ever try Alpha Juno One? It's worth it?
I think so if you can get a great price on it. For Juno 2's going for about $600 I wouldn't want to pay more than $400 for a One
IMO the One is better. It's smaller and doesn't have a touch sensitive keyboard. I don't think the Juno sound really needs touch sensitivity (The Juno 6/60/106 didn't have it either).
@lundsweden I love the aftertouch on mine and wouldn't want to live without it, but when designing classic Juno sounds you're right, turn that velocity off❗
@@VultureCulture The One probably has velocity over MIDI (I'm too lazy to have tried it though).
I'm pretty certain the AJ-1 and AJ-2 have the same PCB, CPU, software and other components. It just makes sense from a cost reduction perspective.
How do you connect the Plug Out to control my Roland MKS 50?
For me, it was as simple as running a midi cable out of my midi interface into my Alpha Juno and hitting the sysex button in the plugin. Some DAWs may not pass sysex, I think there's info in the manual if that doesn't work for you
The first comparison... A is the TAL, the chorus has more panning.
Damn! I was wrong. And I have an MKS-50. This is why I come here.
Thank you for being brave and posting your guess!
There's no shame in getting it wrong when this plugin is so freaking good!
I’m on the path of selling off vintage gear. Too much maintenance. This video goes to show the VSTs are a smarter choice. And my DW 8k has to go. The TAL-PHA is another example of this. Great video Espen! 👌🏻
I'm Alex, but thank you for the compliment 😂
@@VultureCulture sorry I had too much wine…. 🙄😂 🍷
@anderslarsson6149 love that 🍷
😂 we see the vue meter on the TAL pha when he plays it so it’s easy to see if it’s the plugin or the hardware that we ear.
Hahahaha I'm almost dumb enough to be pretty.
Yes and when he asked the question I straight away looked at the softsynth VU OUTPUT METER and what was happen to that when he start playing and I saw that immediately which of the synth he played first which was the softsynth and then the play the original JUNO ALPHA hardware synth ;-)
Wish I could go back and say "close your eyes first" xD
VST is great, do we know if they will release an AU?
@TheRyanKirk they have!
2:00 there is ReDominator vst and its quite good too ;)
It is good but it's not in the same league as Tal-Pha
From the beginning I heard the difference. Maybe because I own. Couple of MKS-50 with Retroaktive MPG-50 mkii
To my ears the real Alpha juno sound different more roundish and deeper
Its a nice mimic but like the boutique the virtuals are very predictable and analog filers and envelops interacting with tbe real analog electronic dco create unpredictable results.
You can mimic it very close though but never the same.
Still, I own sone boutique and love them
Of you into daw synths that is suitable for you but I prefer hand on analog magic
Sometimes the small differences are due to Analog / digital converting....
i currently have the tal j8 as jupiter 8 going price is £25k what a vst it is im amazed that a trance song by rank 1 was same jp8 strings chords O_o when played correct notes i was shocked when i tried it i was like WTF
Yeah TAL is really knocking it out of the park! So impressed by this one!
with practice i reckon i can master ableton live and make my own songs using juno vst@@VultureCulture
well you can see the audio output in the top >_
Yeah I pinned a comment about my stupidity 😂
@@VultureCultureIts still a good video for whoever was uncertain if the plugin sounds like the real thing. But yea, sneaky plugins give it away if they are played.
Strange timing. I found this video during some research into Tal pha. I wanted to make sure it was going to be a good buy vs the hardware. So I get out of work, and play this for the drive home so I can just listen. I figured I'd stop at the local music store to see if anything cool is in. There's an alpha 2 sitting there.... lol.
I mean, Alpha 2's are a great value if you can find them around $600.
@@VultureCulture This one was around that price. I know what's going to happen if I bought the hardware; I spend the money, control it through Jupiter-X for a few sounds, it takes up real estate, collects dust, and thats about it, or spend 1/10th the price for 90% of the accuracy, plus the ability to take ot to levels beyond the hardware with layering. Don't get me wrong, I love and own some analog gear, but I've also curbed my GAS by being a realist. There is also a collector side and I completely get that, and if anything, buying it simply as an investment might be a consideration.
That's the first time I see TAL PHA.
It's brand new!
Didn't watch the whole video. Did you cover the VT (voice tune) tab. Here you can make the plugin sound old and out of tune.
I didn't go into it - just a quick mention because my Alpha sounded slightly less tightly in tune
Tal-pha gets even better if you start microtuning the oscillators . That alone is worth the money.
Yeah adding a little age in there makes it sound perfectly vintage
@ it’s not really aging but real detuning of the dco’s . Kiwitechnic even has a hardware mod kit for the alpha hardware that also does this . Have t seen in in action though
TAL PH@ is ab. fabulous and obviously seems way beyond AJ. Similar to JX8p & 10 the latter are the very few synths in my (unfortunately) too big collection that are (by PG controllers) largely exhausted. Concerning that kind of hybrid sync type lead sound that did not work on AJ: A much higher frequency, or whatever kind of expanded modulation seems to resonate above the center frequency. That lead sound is superbe but strictly impossible with an Alpha. Otherwise I'd long programmed it because its too coo!!! 💜❤️💙💛
Tal Pha is a triumph and really has expanded on the AJ2 in smart ways!
Nice sounding, could have better midi learn. I do have a real AJ1, which is great.
Men, the timing of your livestreams is getting horrible. This one started at 3:15AM CET. I used to watch your LSs around midnight which sucked but was doable.but at this devil`s hour👿 at 3:15AM we european synthesists usually sleep😊 Please consider changing your LS schedule so I can catch you live in some reasonable time. Thank you in advance, Lenochod
Sorry lenochod!
Alpha junos (hardware) have no noticeable difference between them , more than 50 percent of it was digital anyway ( env ,lfo ) no drift in osc's , it is not like a system 100 or sh5 ,sh3a were they all sound different
Opsix sounds like a dx1 they tried to make it simple..
This plug is insanely good, but I'm one way I'm a bit sad that hardware collecting no longer really makes sense.
There's a sense of loss there as well as excitement that my 80s/90s dreams can now live neatly in my computer.
One thing though, the Talpha plug is pretty expensive, and I already own the Uno-LX, J-8, Baseline 101 and TAL sampler, all really wonderful plugins. So the question is, do I really need this plug? No. But I want it!
I can't compare J-8 to a Jupiter 8, but I can say the Pha seems to be a step ahead in terms of accuracy. It's literally an A-Juno for all intents and purposes
@@VultureCulture I don't have a Jupiter 8 to compare the J-8 to, but I'm able to get sounds very close to what I hear on 80s records where the Jupiter was used. There is something about the tone that isn't analog, not quite sure what that something is, is it distortion or something else? Whatever that something is, my JX-8P has it.
Hi handsome 💋
Pha like in pho?😂
I actually don't know how to pronounce it and defaulted to my fave Asian dish 🍜
These endless discussion about Behringer...easy to say dont buy it if u dont want it. Whats with all the hobby soundmakers, are they not allowed to have best possibel hardware. Not everybody can spend 5-10 times more for nearly the same sound!
I mean, we're talking about a piece of vintage hardware from 1985 you can get cheaper than a Pro-800: www.ebay.com/itm/145529372953?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=145529372953&targetid=1530439038611&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9012032&poi=&campaignid=19851828444&mkgroupid=145880009014&rlsatarget=aud-1317302328365:pla-1530439038611&abcId=9307249&merchantid=6296724&gad_source=4&gclid=CjwKCAiA_tuuBhAUEiwAvxkgTs43z95CMiIs3nUgd-ITFnmzjfcv_cGH2zFGZop778TIoUuVngYYcBoCK2sQAvD_BwE
I feel like the Behringer marketing people make it seem like all vintage synths are crazy expensive and they're saving the world by reissuing other companies ideas lol.
No ire directed at you Steffen, just my thoughts on the whole Behringer "controvery"
@@VultureCulture I do agree with you. Sometimes the old little gems could be found at a affordable price....like your video about Kawai K4. I did buy 2 years ago a Roland JV-90 for 200€ in perfect condition.....still my goto keys as I like the Roland touch and feel so much!
That's an awesome find!