"and that's one of the reasons I really wanted to become well known in the fighting game scene, because it pissed me off that everyone was so wrong" I've really gotta respect the confidence there
people think they want to see a non-shit twelve but thats only because they haven't actually played against good twelves. nobody actually wants to fight a good twelve as is, now imagine he has good combos, dmg and better confirms, he'd be like chun-li on crack.
@@Omegadarkdrake twelve is hilariously non-usable, he has 0 damage, horrible frames and no range with not 1 good super that isnt kind of a joke, and xcopy still leaves him at a disadvantage in any situation. All they needed to do is fix his frame data and give him meatier damage behind supers and specials, with maybe a few more combo routes, like literally just make his lights and medium kick cancelable. He really wouldnt be broken, if you look at it his fuckin flying whatever super, it does about as much damage as shippu jinrai but costs more meter and is only one bar, and is harder to set up, having that super with 2 shorts bars would be very balanced even, just something he can threaten you with. Like I would really like to hear a genuine arguement as to why twelve would be viable. Any good tools or a genuine gameplan that isnt just: airdash to overhead, s.mp to tentacle hands, and rarely invis.
re: people with opinions coming out of the woodwork, I think most of those people never actually played Third Strike. It's just somehow over time developed this reputation as the most hardcore, technical, big boy Street Fighter (my guess is parrying + the Daigo video) and people jumped on the bandwagon to look hip, like the 14 year old who tells you Sgt. Pepper is the best album ever made when they haven't even listened to it. So by the time Capcom was talking about a rerelease, people had already circlejerked it into being a perfect holy fighting game with nothing wrong to balance. Third Strike is a classic game but the unstoppable hype train half composed of posers ruined SF3's future.
I think there's some truth to this. I've certainly played MANY people convinced SF3 was the best fighting game who I could just steamroll. Nothing inherently wrong with that, maybe they just find it more fun to play than other fighting games even at a mid level. But all of them start bitching about unavoidable elements of the game's engine, like "why is Chun so annoying", or "How can I make it so I don't have to parry" or "play okizeme", or "Why do combos do 70% of my health", and all of a sudden I'm wondering how these people rationalize their "greatest fighting game of all time" is full of things they don't like.
3s is a great game, definitely top 3 of all the SFers released so far, but there's nothing wrong with admitting that it is a far from perfect game and there is room for improvement and balance.
I'm going to call this the "HD remix effect". They tried to rebalance Super Turbo, but the fans didn't like it for some reason. This goes to show you, sometimes the FGC's worst enemy is the FGC.
HDR had some really awful design decisions though, I don't know why 3S is singled out for being a badly-balanced game while HDR isn't being given flack. Honda's lp headbutt alone kind of locks certain characters from being competitive.
Hard agree I love 3S to death, its my favourite video game full stop and has inspired me to get in to FGs. Been playing for years and hopefully will for years more But it ain't perfect Chun lacks depth and her SA3 is ridonkulous Genei Jin is a "Stop playing 3S" super that Yun can build way too easily 12, Remy, Sean and Q lack the sheer data to be competitive Most supers are either really bad in isolation, or bad in comparison to THE super the character should pick (Shippu for example) Makotos Touch of Stun for one bar off a command grab Charge partitioning having semi random leniency. Why? Idk how anyone can say it's perfect, and this is coming from someone who sincerely adores it
Makoto SA I is more picked in tournaments than SA II, and to be honest i think both super are balanced, SA II is a high risk high reward thing, and is hard to do it consistently even tominaga misses alot of times.
Because it is perfect, the greatest fighting games, the ones that actually have legacy are all perfect in their imperfection. The super refined e sports driven balancing of today will ensure NONE of these games are revered/played 20 years from now the way 3S, A3, ST, Garou, MVC2, CVS2 etc all are. You think people will be going back to T7, or SF5, ofcourse they won’t, people will go back to T5 and 3S, both unbalanced, both with “easy” fixes, both perfect.
This isn't even the first time I watched this video, and somehow I didn't know about the dip switches and the "use all supers" option. That sounds super fun. I've been trying to look it up to figure out how the game resolves that (different bar lengths, overlapping inputs), but I can't find any documentation online about it
You can choose how long the super bar is and how many supers it stocks. All supers cost the same amount, whatever the bar length you set is. The exceptions are kkz and raging demon which always consume all of akumas meter.
As for overlapping inputs, all supers have a secondary input if you turn on multiple supers. For example, I haven't done this in ages but if I recall correctly, 3 super oro has qcf qcf punch for kishin Riki, qcf qcf kick for yagyou dama, and qcb qcb punch for tengu stone
@@BafaelWhoh that's super interesting, thanks Baf. Just like Wultras in SF4 I feel like always playing with all supers is more interesting and fun in a casual setting. I played a decent amount of 3S with my more casual friends when 3SOE dropped, I wish I knew about this then.
Everything I know about 3rd Strike (not much btw) I learned from Baf let's watch East vs West videos. It's cool to hear him talk about something he cares about so much.
I'd love a balanced version of Third Strike that adds in a couple new characters, some new stages and music, and fixes the sprite art errors (Elena's head).The problem is, who would make it? Capcom? Are you joking? When was the last time they did something right? Battle Network 5?
Even as a huge fan of third strike and a guy who really loves that game I have to agree that it would need some good old ass balancing to make it even better! I would love to play as some low tier characters in a rebalanced version of 3S.
Holy shit! Thanks for posting this video and detailing the information especially about Fightcade and the dipswitches. I had no idea that the dipswitches existed for (re)balancing the game. The switch for turning off meter build for whiff attacks totally changes the game for me. My friend and I have been playing 3rd Strike via emulation and have been reconnecting as friends over a hiatus of about a decade; the game has definitely made us tighter and we look forward to and make time to get online to play. Having said all that, we're definitely switching to Fightcade and enabling/toggling the dipswitch options. One of my main gripes with S.F. III is the stupid little meter building dance that happens during every match, especially first round with Dudley and/or Shoto characters. I just wanted to leave a comment to thank you for all the time and information you've gathered and shared with us. I definitely appreciate it and wish you all the best, man!
I'm still salty to this day we didn't get some attempt at a fourth edition of Street fighter 3 even if it didn't see tournament play a lot I would still be curious to pick the game apart and probably have a blast doing it
Also I liked hd remix as well. I played st back in the day but wasn't competitive or seeking to get good or better until 3s. I think that's why I share so many opinions with you. And yes anyone that's never played with the dip switches in third strike should do it. It's a lot of fun if you turn on access to all three supers at once and add air blocking and normal chaining. Basically it's third strike but with marvel features. It gets pretty interesting and some stuff is kind of broken but it's a lot of fun to screw around with
I've been intrigued by the idea of a 3rd Strike rebalance as well, but I think there's a few reasons they didn't do it, and it's not because "the game is perfect": 1) there's a lot of game speed inconsistencies in the home console ports that leave hard-core players unhappy with the game, like Ken's hit confirms being harder on console. It changes the way the game is played. These issues would get baked in to any new version of the game you create. 2) The new version would lack credibility with the OG Japan scene, both because of the reason above and because there would be no CPS3 arcade release for the new game. That means the biggest scene in the world will continue to run tournaments etc. with the old version. 3) in general, I think that after-the-fact remasters come across as half-assed because theres minimal resources devoted to the new game. Things like new characters and stages are often what drive people to go get the new version. "Rebalancing" is by default something that only hard-core players would appreciate, and for the reasons above they already have reasons not to adopt the new game. New art resources would go a long way to making a new version of old-school games feel new and worthwhile.
It's the same thing with melee. It's an awesome game, but it's got some issues. Issues that people have fixed. But when it comes to implementing those fixes, people get weird about it. I wish a balance romhack would just take precedence over the main game.
It's cus there is no "Perfect fix" or one whole balance pack that isn't biased. Even SD Remix buffs and nerfs things that don't help, of nerf the character properly.
Well Melee is basically a completely broken game which is what makes it beautiful, but certain things really have no reason to stay if they can be fixed (wobbling, freeze glitch, shit like that)
A lot of the issue is also just legitimacy. Like a melee patch that buffs the lower half of the roster to be more consistent would be cool but if it’s not the official product you can’t really condone that in tournaments because 1. Not everyone will be familiar with it if you jump ship to a new patch (it’s why major tournaments require a balance patch come out at least a month prior to the event for the integrity of the event because it’s be horrible to expect players to compete and find out half their combos don’t work anymore 3 days before the tournament weekend) and 2. Sponsorship in major events. Nintendo got pissy over slippi. You think a rom hack would fly over well? Because project M is literally the proof they will ask you to cut that shit out if you want their support. I’d love for modded games to have scenes, but I fully understand why not. It’s just how things are.
@@Bafael the thing is I really want to attend tournaments. I'd like to make my way out to majors if I can and try my hardest to make it far in bracket but if my tourney experience is going to be yuns whiffing 5 normals into super I'm not gonna be as motivated to learn and get good at the game
@Bafael > Playing online you'll almost never bump into those characters anyway what? ken and yun are pretty popular on fightcade. chun-li is pretty rare but when someone is playing her they almost always know what theyre doing. edit: actually yeah there are known dudes that play basically everyday that play nothing but ken and yun and youll spot them immediately
@@Omegadarkdrake I dunno how it is now but when I played fightcade years ago there were basically 0 Chun players and only a handful of Yuns (maybe 5 regulars), but the Yun players were all pretty/really good. Ken has always been popular online and there's a huge spectrum of skill among them. I think across 15 years playing online I've only fought maybe 10 good Chun lis total if even.
@@Omegadarkdrake idk maybe it's related with your region, I've been playing 3rd strike on fightcade over a month and only encounter 3 yun players and 0 chun (that know what they're doing), and yeah ken is popular everywhere.
I didn't know that the community was so against balancing the game... ...Well, if you want balanced 3rd Strike, Yatagarasu is a thing. It's not the same, and that's a large reason why I enjoy it much more than 3S.
***** I really do recommend playing 4.3 right now. While all the characters did get massive buffs and changes, some still have their general playstyle there. Like, Japan is buying 4.3 en masse to practice for when they play AoC in arcades! If you ever need tutorials/gameplay, I'm your guy to ask btw. You should certainly enjoy it even if it's not AoC.
I think it would be really sick if a 4th version of SF3 came out that allowed you to use every previous version of every character, along with freely mixing and matching stages and music
3s and Melee have so much in common its friking ridiculous, I feel like the unknown Baf in the smash community, noone wants to listen to me about in Smash but Im good enough to know whats wrong. any way, Baf your the best dude.
I know this comment is hella old so I don’t mind if you don’t respond, but I’d like to hear what exactly these games have in common. I honestly don’t see much.
@@Luigi777888 one is an overrated game only played by hipsters who can't adapt to newer entries in the same franchise, criticizing them as baby games for casuals due to easier execution barriers all the while not being actually good at said game but acting as if they have any authority on discussion as a whole, and harass people who don't like their game. The other is 3rd Strike.
Most Vertical Productions Most Vertical Productions Most Vertical Productions I see a lot of people talk about melee this way, and often it comes from a lack of understanding of their situation. Let me attempt to make an analogy in defense of the melee community’s disdain for the series’ later titles, not to say that their toxicity is okay, but that there’s a reason for it. If you don’t care, that’s coo, because I’m gonna yap a lot, but I’m sure there’s a lurker out there who likes this type of stuff. ;) Street Fighter 2: Rainbow Edition. A hack that changed the trajectory of the series forever. Capcom saw and experienced the hack out of interest, since it was so wacky and popular, before shutting it down, ruining everybody’s fun. Afterwards Capcom took inspiration from the hack and introduced new, more fun and interesting mechanics, like Chun-Li having a fireball in first place, and air tatsus. Melee. A game that changed the direction of the series forever. One of the most popular games ever, and it got competitive, so they made rules n shit for tournaments. Whatever. Nintendo saw this competitive scene and didn’t how the game was being played, saying things like, “it had no future.” As a direct result of this, when a sequel was made, they took every turn they could to remove what made Melee amazing. From the new wave dashing to the legacy mechanic of L-cancelling, previously known as Z-cancelling in Smash 64. Even further, they added “tripping” as a randomized mechanic, making just dashing a dangerous thing to do. All to remove any semblance of competitiveness in the game. For more aggression against the smash community, the history of a hack by the name of Project M is important as well, but I won’t get into that unless someone asks. These communities played their respective games the way they wanted but ensued in response should be telling. Capcom decided to build with their community, making a healthy relationship between developers and fans. Nintendo just spat in their community’s face, alienating and embittering them. What do you think Street Fighter would look like if they did something similar?
the third strike community needs to go in melee's footsteps to finally cut all the bullshit out of the game to make it perfect like you literally stated 3 obvious fixes that would massively improve the game
I would kill for a rebalanced melee. More special moves should cancel to landing animation when interrupted like spacies lasers and I think needles does as well (?) (imagine double jump cancelling yoshi eggs into landing recovery). Let all the characters icies/pika and lower grab ledge from up b while facing away (like spacies and falcon). There's too much, but melee would be so much sicker to me if there were 7 top tiers and 8 high tiers instead of 3-4 top tiers and 3-4 high tiers
@@benjihuynh2970 melee has so many glaring issues too like game and watch not being able to l cancel half his aerials and a shit ton of moves that do not work as intended or have botched hitboxes.
@@kirbyjinet302 oh don't even get me fucking started on character specific stuff. Yes I would like to talk to the manager who decided Bowser should have an 8 (read: eight!) Frame jump squat. Like look he's fat I get it but chill the hell out melee
My biggest gripe with sf3 online edition as a casual is how it looks. Why does it look so weird? Why was the background in the menus replaced with a stock texture of stainless steel? Why is there no option to have the pixelated look?
The funniest thing about it is that it wouldn't have changed anything for peeps that still want to play OG 3S. They are going to play on arcade boards no matter what.
its kind of sad 3s oe is stuck on old consoles though, do you think theres any chance that itll be ported to modern systems at some point or is it just gonna be fightcade for always
I've been getting interested in actually playing 3s lately but the one thing that's been holding me back is the balance. I want to play twelve, he single-handedly got me interested in art, animation, and pixel art and I like how he plays as well. But I don't want to learn a new game playing quite possibly the worst character in the game. Like other characters are cool and stuff so I might end up playing Dudley or something, but the balance kinda puts me off. I feel like 3s just needs balance clean up like you said with super bars just changing length among other stuff. I'm probably gonna start taking the game seriously soon, I have been wanting to learn another fg for a while to expand my skill set. Anyway, 4th strike would be great. Good vid.
3rd strike is perfect as it is, the same way MVC2, CVS2 and Alpha 3 are, but I would have preferred 3.4 because something new woulda been sick. People complaining about new takes on games are morons, why complain about HD remix, when ST is ALWAYS gonna be there, just the way you liked it? SF3 didn’t fail because of Chun-li dominance, it was a perfect storm of dying arcades, gameplay ahead of it’s time, meaningful deviation from its beloved predecessor (no legacy characters, zoning nerfed etc) and fandom being generally stupid.
If we really wanted an SF3: 4, we need a spiritual successor at this point. New characters, some nods to some old ones, new IP, same systems with a few updates here and there. It'd be a shit ton of work, but in the end we could get the same system with a new lease on life.
I think you shouldn't make the case and literally get a modded version with fair balance changes and start running brackets until people finally get it. hax is running a melee major where wobbling is patched out, it has programmed ledge grab limit, and a bunch of other fixes and it's on it's way to becoming standard. I'd be so happy dedicate myself to third strike if it didnt have the problems it had
I don't think people dropped it because of the imbalance. There's plenty of games that are incredibly imbalanced but they're still played and are relevant in the FGC (3S, ST, MVC2), which is that people have realised that those games have less (viable) characters on the select screen and believe (might be true, might not be true, dunno) that between those characters, the game is balanced. Nothing inherently wrong with that kind of thinking. Of course if you're a new player and see characters that look awesome to you and you want to play them (the bad characters like Q, Sean etc) that's discouraging, but people fully explored those characters to find what good is in them, which is often difficult to implement tech, paired with having just incredible fundamentals. What I'm saying is that imbalance isn't something that stops people who want to play a game from playing it (though it can be one of many factors, it often isn't the overarching aspect). I think people dropped the game simply because it was old. There were some people who weren't attached to 3S as much and they moved on to the new stuff. There are some who still like 3S over the new games and they still keep playing it, but that number won't rise realistically. BTW balanced games aren't great at pulling in people either. Balance is often said to cause fun but I just don't see it. At least cast wide balance that is. All games have balance somewhere, and for the older games (or at least MVC2 and 3S, don't know this about ST as much since it's incredibly matchup heavy) that balance was the balanced top tier.
You're right, but hear me out. 3S was dropped in America in favor of Alpha 3 within the first couple years, and had a brief resurgence that turned it into a cult game following daigo parry (which is the reason nearly everyone I know got into it, myself included). 3s definitely had a much better hope of being a side game at tournaments again w/ a rebalance rather than a rerelease, if only because it's new and people can try to find out what's strong again. And the main reason it was unpopular wasn't balance EXPLICITLY, but it sort of was: it was a largely new cast which alienated players. A lot of the new, cool characters, such as twelve and Q and sean, that WERE popular by design, are completely unplayable for similar reasons to the fact that they're low tier. They're broken, stiff, bad characters. Sean additionally was really nerfed from 2i. Balance hurts 3s a lot because it's a very high-skill-ceiling game with complex characters so you have to really commit yourself to a character. ST had worse balance than 3s but it's a lot simpler to play (not easier, the difficulty of a fighting game is based wholly on your opponent imo) and MVC2 has much more room for creativity and depth. Of course there's much more to it than that but that's my two cents anyhow.
damn just stumbled upon this vid really important stuff, people who champion "arcade port purity" are actively preventing progress in fighting game communities third strike could have and should have gotten a 4th edition with sweeping rebalances, but arcade purists rallied against that for no reason. KOF98 actually got a brilliant rebalanced version which would be the competitive standard for KOF98 if not for the fact that it was only released on steam. Most KOF98 players I've spoken to agree that it's easily the best, most balanced version. Third strike COULD have had that, but it didn't, because street fighter players have soup for brains
Actually, a big problem is that the ports of the game aren't arcade perfect. The game runs faster and you're typically not on a CRT (which funnily enough these nerf Chun, one of the biggest perceived issues with 3s, since reacting and hit confirming online is much harder barring OE). Patching 3s would outdate all cabinets and previous versions so everybody would have to get new setups or buy the game again most likely on an inferior setup (Capcom can't even get the game speed to run properly on 30th, we're going to expect them to patch the game in a smart way and have it running optimally?). Some people wouldn't want the patched version so you'd have a split in an already small dedicated community (the "purists" vs people wanting change). Patching the game wouldn't remove the very steep learning curve so it's not as if a new crowd would be brought in to "revitalize"/streamline the game. We actually did see this happen in ST, with SSF2THD Remix and guess what? Most people are playing the original ST. So what's the lesson here? Even if you could argue patching 3s would be a good thing, the subsequent issues would make it not worth it. All the Japanese cab setups, all the American cabs, they're all out-dated now. Now we have to play some weird version on PC/PS/Xb that probably can't hook up to a CRT (or you'd have to do some wizardy, just more of a pain). A patch may ruin what made some of 3s so fun anyway, for instance messing with Yun's setup would ruin his unique style of game, same with Urien or Makoto. Sure maybe Chun would be balanced, maybe lower tiers would get more time to shine but I'm sure there'd be some new broken things you could do. At least keeping it the way it is we know what to expect and when you've played a game for decades, having to relearn it all over would be a pain.
Here in south america that same thing happened with kof 2002 and 2002 um, more people play the original one on fightcade than UM because the patches changes and they don't want to relearn the game. The most frustrating part is that they complain about things that are patched on UM version, like angel's infinite.
i love MvC2 but fuck man, if we get a new HD re-re release, i would rather have a balance patch come with it. its cool that we are still playing the same game for this long but im down for some changes.
Oh my Dog I already loved you Baf but hearing you get heated about a 4th Edition, spicy meatball. Also terminally butthurt about no rebalanced edition.
Haha I thought about this like in early 2000's. Like one was... Giving denjin *2 bars. Or yeah lessen chun like you said about her bars. But here we are
i would still love it if they released a balanced version of 3rd strike that had no shitty supers and sean and twelve were playable. Not even saying they should make every super as good as like Ken SA3 but they should all be good enough to not be a handicap to use. 3S is already damn close to being a well balanced game except for Genei Jin and Chun SA2
Dipswitches are selectable options for arcade games which arcade operators can use to change variables in how the game works without making a separate version. It isn't directly in a user friendly and pretty options menu but tucked away so you can change variables in case your community of players doesn't like/need throws, thinks air parry is lame, need infinite lives or whatever else. From the user perspective, it also means we can subtly rebalance the game on console releases in more ways than time and health, but it is still hidden away.
"So many people had opinions and now it's like, "Where are you?" So true every time an old game gets rollback. KoF98UMFE, 02UM, GGXXAC+R, GGXrd, Blazblue, so many old games that people swore were the best are ghost towns compared to how many people talk about them. Little by little they're running out of excuses, right now their mythical holy grail game is SF4, which of course they hated when it came out because it wasn't 3S. Eventually SF4 will get rollback and they'll be out of excuses. All they'll have left will be old Tekken games which of course they've never even touched. (Also, those old games aren't _actually_ ghost towns. You can hop on any time and find a game, don't worry about skill difference, most of the people playing those games aren't half as good as they'd like you to think. Like, genuinely, the people in the beginner channel are indistinguishable from the normal channel.)
What really grinds my gears is the reason people didn't want another SFIII game was because they were too pussy to relearn the game at a higher level with a few fixed mechanics. They wanted a game with a pre-established meta
That's the sad thing about all this. Even the top players wouldn't have to relearn that much. All people who could get in touch with Capcom to do such a thing, stated that the game doesn't need much to get even more balanced. For most characters, it's just bugfix and proper frame-data. The overall game's meta would still be intact, and some characters (probably Urien and Oro) would keep their unintended unblockable setups, because removing them would damage their matchups. No one wants to go the same route 4rd Strike did. Nobody wants Ultimate Sean, or a fake Hadoken for Ryu, or an "attempt" to make Gill playable. Most players just want to get rid of the bad bugs that plagued the game for so long, while keeping the good bugs that made the game what it is.
I think I remember you from the pre sf4 days on srk. I was wantonx with the ronald mcdonald meme avatar that said what the shit? On it. I think I remember discussing stuff with you when event hubs was just getting started I remember it because I was one of the people that contributed to the Ryu section and I think I just remember you from the discussions about the other characters in general because you were actually smart.
And yeah people like me and you got ignored a lot as newbies back around like 03-06ish. I was on there constantly when anniversary collection was on original Xbox online and stayed pretty regular until right before ultra Street fighter 4. Now I still play but not competitively anymore I had to go home and be a family man 🤣
A bit late to the party, but yeah. If the base version is always going to be around go ahead and create a new version. Pokemon did this in BDSP and LGPE. BDSP is a remake with only cosmetic changes and a terrible competitive scene due to the loss of move tutors, whereas LGPE is a hot mess because there's things that should've never been added to the game. I'm surprised Capcom even asked for opinions
veterans are too entrenched and adjusted to the bullshit while scrubs orbiting the game just parrot their opinions to sound cool. the thing that gets me is why not play both the original and the remix? what's so hard about that? you're not winning Evo main stage in this game anyway at this point.. just give HD Remix, Omega, 4rd Strike a try.. get out of your comfort zone and learn a new character in the other version. it's as if people don't know how to have fun..
sf 3 online edition being an sf 3 hd remix edition would have been amazing. No idea why they didnt do that. The balance is actually the worst thing about sf 3 IMO. Probably the thing most holding it back. Its the best SF game, but balance could make it a lot better.
@@masheen8724 Harada: Games should be FUN, not balanced The same thing said by Super Akouma, and it was implied by Core-A gaming as well. There are many other examples but I can't remember it from the top of my head. I think it all started with a Mrbtongue video
Oh i see what your saying. I know how annoying that can be when people imply games can't be fun and balanced at the same time. Oh yeah which video are you talking about as well?
@@boitahaki i watched that video its good but buffing doesn't solve everything. Too much might lead to power creep which is another problem. Or the overpowered stuff stay at the top regardless of the buffs.
@@Bafael it's insanely fun, my IRL group has been gettin more and more into fighting games, and 4rd strike is our main go to that get the group going competitively, it's done tons for them to finally enjoy FGs on a deeper level and start wanting to get better. I absolutely love 4rd strike.
I'll admit I have Stockholm syndrome I knew this game was unbalanced but this game told me to deal with it even though Chun and Yun won majority of tournaments this game has surprises and you'll see someone win with a low tier character once in awhile. In short I know it's unbalanced but I don't see the point of balancing it now.
"Once in a while" is the problem I see with your statement. A 3S rebalance is LONG overdue. At LEAST give the people an option to choose which version they like the most. The annoying thing about purists is that nobody would restrict you from playing the 3S you still loved for years....at least allow a breath of fresh air of contents for the people, and allow us to have a choice.
@@zfee8328 the thing about us "purist" is that we stuck with this game when everyone abandoned it, so much that we've learned to play around it. The casuals will always leave and is "purist" will stay around
@@OscinoFilms Nobody is saying to get rid of 3S as it is now, again people should have options. Doesn't matter what you think of casuals, keep playing the original 3rd Strike if you feel that way. I get where you're coming from but it would be a much welcomed thing to patch in a new version of the game, and make it fresh again. You "purists" are the reason the game won't reach potentially new heights, smh. It gets repelling to some to see YunChunKen dominate with cheap shit after 20+ years. As much as I love this game, I personally go on and off, I do my best to use lower tier characters (simply because they are more fun), but there's a clear ceiling when there's so much more unnecessary and overpowered strength, making your odds of winning slim. Which is why a rebalance would be welcomed with open arms, at least for me and probably many others
@@zfee8328 even if you rebalance the game it wouldn't matter they're just gonna find the best characters and try to win with them every game does it. I'm still seeing the same characters in SFV make top 8, same with Tekken and same with MK11, so why change it?
I mean that's the problem with trying to rebalance older titles. The unbalanced jank has become part of the meta and the game's identity; to remove the jank would alienate the playerbase, and the game's too old for new players to be interested in it, so nobody ends up playing it.
Bad Balance = Ken. That's all I say to that. Like how the beep do one counter him and his Fierce Shoryuken? You can't even punish that shit. Ken's allowed to be hyper aggressive because he does so much damage with everything he uses. Hate him. Even more so than Urien. Hilariously, my friend wasn't really buying it and he was fighting a really strong opponent on Fightcade while I spectated, and he couldn't win one round as Ken. So I told him " _Pick Chun Li. Just do it once._ " so he did - *And Won*. And we laughed, because he knew *nothing* of how to play Chun Li, and yet he still won without even breaking a sweat. Yeah no. I wanted to like Third Strike, and I kinda do, but I think I prefer 2nd Generation better of the SFIII versions. But overall, SF3 isn't really a good fighting game in my opinion.
Okay the balance of SF3 can be pretty bad but... 1. Ken's hard DP isn't broken at all, and it's really easy to punish. DP's in 3s in general are pretty bad. 2. Urien isn't good at all unless he's in the hands of an insanely good player, and even then he's only like high tier. 3. the traditional tier lists don't come into play until you're playing at quite a high level. If someone on fightcade lost to a chun-li from a guy who'd never played chun-li before, they weren't a really strong opponent. 5. Second impact is ridiculously more broken and imbalanced than third strike I'm not trying to pick on you and I think ken and chun-li are pretty busted but it sounds like you didn't give 3s a fair try at all.
Oh trust me, I've given Third Strike *more* than a _little_ chance. I still play it even though whenever I meet Ken, I just want to go and hang myself. As for the Chun-Li, I'd argue that my friend never played Chun-Li which possibly threw the player off.
I was an ST and SF4 guy and only took up 3rd Strike when 30th Anniversary came out. Love the game but jesus the balance is horrendous! Even the scrubbiest Chun player gives me nightmare trouble, whilst I beat good players not using Chun and Yun....speaking as a Q main.
3S, Alpha 3 and MvC2 are broken games that are fun. SF4 was broken and not fun. Vortex, 50 / 50 lp lp / lk lk, combo that drains your life and you die. I can’t tell you how much I don’t care for the later sf games. This game has cemented itself as a classic. It’s something that sort of exists in its own sphere. I’d be interested in a hd remix, but the community won’t accept “chun li with one bar” or “denjin that requires more charging time for stun” that messes with the meta of the game.
That's a closed minded perspective considering the stagnation of the meta and people always yapping off the same top tiers in important tournaments, if Capcom gave this game a chance again did some changes to super balance and added some characters the game would be more popular considering the low resources that it takes to run it and how deep it is and how even after all this years the sprites are one of the best.
Any time a dev changes things they have the possibility of also fucking things up. People who've played a game for 2 decades are really scared of this because they have to give up decades of nuanced game knowledge that could go down the drain for a game that's potentially not as balanced.
Whiffing normals for meter should be removed entirely because it's dumb. It's completely opposite behavior compared to, say, guilty gear where you are rewarded meter for being aggressive but punished for turtling behavior. I main Elena and tbh I would be disgusted with her if she was rewarded stupid fast normals like chun and just escape fullscreen and spam it just to abuse SAIII
It’s actually very important. If you get rid of this…why approach? People always say this but they never think it through at all. Genei jin is overpowered but it’s why Chun li actually has a losing matchup. If you just turtle with Chun li in normal 3s you lose because yun builds his win condition first and your pokes lose to his now. It forces the two to engage. Without it? Why approach. If I’m Yun I’ll just play super passively because parry lets me punish you for approaching me and then I get the meter advantage so I’m definitely not approaching now. And if I’m Chun li my meterless damage is awful so I have to play even lamer because now I can’t make comebacks anymore. It’s not stupid it prevents a stalemate. Garou has generally no meter grinding. This makes plenty of match ups very patient and passive because approaching and zoning are both pretty terrible in a game where most the cast essentially have Kara dp. But several characters can whiff moves to build bar. And fittingly their range and footsies capabilities are very bad. This forces you to approach them because everyone essentially has houyoku sen. Which means they don’t get walled out because they have a tool to force you to approach. That’s why it isn’t dumb. Without it the bad characters just get worse and the passive characters get more passive because when parry exists any poor approach can be fatal but the pressure of meter economy forces you to weight your options in the moment and keeps the game more interesting on a moment to moment basis.
The dev team isn't the same, they would just fuck it up. This lesson has been learned the hard way many times, not just with fighting games. Always better to keep re-releases untouched.
That is absolutely not true. My most busted thing on Alex is I have a frame 3 medium punch that does everything but zone. Sean’s mist busted thing is being able to lose 50% for LANDING TATSU. This revisionist nonsense always pretends that all characters had busted stuff when that’s not true. Ban top 3 from a tournament and 12 doesn’t suddenly become amazing. This game is explicitly held back from perfection because of how badly it’s balanced where Ibuki lost a super because it was too strong so they gave it to Chun li but better without a hint of irony.
Slow the fuck down, Baf. People need to understand (at that time) 3rd strike was not a popular game. It was only until moment 37 that a spark was ignited, and from Crapcom's POV, they needed to make a decision to either spend money on 3s and create a *new game* or not...(they choose the latter, aka *3s online whatever*)
OE came out in 2011. Evo moment 37 happened in 2004. SF4 was the new game that happened because of Evo 37. I'm talking about OE when I say they had a choice to make a new SF3 version or to faithfully port it. OE was announced well after SF4 had already done WAY better than SF3 ever did.
*The main reason I don't use GGPO is because you have to pirate the games to play them.* Either that, or rip an arcade board, which I don't think I'll ever do. If companies would just release their arcade games in a DRM-free way, then it would allow people like me that have an ethical issue with pirating a game to actually play that game. Yeah, most people would still pirate them anyway, but 1) Companies could still make *some* money from game sales as opposed to *no* money from pirates, and 2) It would probably help to set a precedent that would allow them to shut down pirates, which would make making money from their game sales more likely.
The fact that they don't sell the game shows that they don't give a shit about piracy. Capcom could easily throw their roms up onto an online store for $5 each and they'd both make money and give people who don't want to pirate a legitimate way to own the rom. If this isn't a big deal to Capcom, then I sure as hell am not about to miss out on playing great games on Fightcade over it.
How to pirate ethically: Step 1: Do you own the game? Yes- Go to step 2. No- Buy it, then go to step 2. Step 2: Pirate the game. The only unethical part of piracy is that the original creator isn't getting money in return for a product they took a large financial risk to make. If you go out and buy 3S:OE, or if you bought 3S on PS2 or Saturn back in the day, you have satisfied your duty. Anyone who would demand that you pay money for permission to play a game you legally own in a different box is greedy or an idiot.
Exactly awkwardcultism. Just buy OE for the PS3 or 360 and then pirate it without any guilt. That's a good option for people who have this moral dilemma. I don't even play my copy of OE on PS3 since I prefer fightcade. I'll probably even get the 30th anniversary collection on Steam when it comes out unless it's broken, but imo paying $40 when I only really want it for 3rd Strike isn't something I'd expect other people to do.
It's really odd to me people like you exist. 1) Companies, especially ones involved in game development and publishing keep proving they don't have any ethical standards when it comes to game emulation and piracy and frequently do dumbshit like release pirated roms of their own games like Nintendo. 2) You have videos of Melee light all over your channel which has assets ripped straight out of Melee lol Grade A idiot
Rare footage of Baf actually angry
Baffling.
Baffaeling..
"Lets go COMMENT SECTIOOOON!!!"
"and that's one of the reasons I really wanted to become well known in the fighting game scene, because it pissed me off that everyone was so wrong"
I've really gotta respect the confidence there
Lmao never watched this guy before but I feel that
Street Fighter III: Twelve Doesn't Suck Edition.
12 is all right . I actually playd as him for a while i sucked lol Necro still rocks ✌
people think they want to see a non-shit twelve but thats only because they haven't actually played against good twelves. nobody actually wants to fight a good twelve as is, now imagine he has good combos, dmg and better confirms, he'd be like chun-li on crack.
Yes prease
@@Omegadarkdrake twelve is hilariously non-usable, he has 0 damage, horrible frames and no range with not 1 good super that isnt kind of a joke, and xcopy still leaves him at a disadvantage in any situation. All they needed to do is fix his frame data and give him meatier damage behind supers and specials, with maybe a few more combo routes, like literally just make his lights and medium kick cancelable. He really wouldnt be broken, if you look at it his fuckin flying whatever super, it does about as much damage as shippu jinrai but costs more meter and is only one bar, and is harder to set up, having that super with 2 shorts bars would be very balanced even, just something he can threaten you with. Like I would really like to hear a genuine arguement as to why twelve would be viable. Any good tools or a genuine gameplan that isnt just: airdash to overhead, s.mp to tentacle hands, and rarely invis.
@@internetsavage8733 this u rn th-cam.com/video/j3glwtXrj0c/w-d-xo.html
re: people with opinions coming out of the woodwork, I think most of those people never actually played Third Strike. It's just somehow over time developed this reputation as the most hardcore, technical, big boy Street Fighter (my guess is parrying + the Daigo video) and people jumped on the bandwagon to look hip, like the 14 year old who tells you Sgt. Pepper is the best album ever made when they haven't even listened to it. So by the time Capcom was talking about a rerelease, people had already circlejerked it into being a perfect holy fighting game with nothing wrong to balance.
Third Strike is a classic game but the unstoppable hype train half composed of posers ruined SF3's future.
I think there's some truth to this. I've certainly played MANY people convinced SF3 was the best fighting game who I could just steamroll. Nothing inherently wrong with that, maybe they just find it more fun to play than other fighting games even at a mid level. But all of them start bitching about unavoidable elements of the game's engine, like "why is Chun so annoying", or "How can I make it so I don't have to parry" or "play okizeme", or "Why do combos do 70% of my health", and all of a sudden I'm wondering how these people rationalize their "greatest fighting game of all time" is full of things they don't like.
This man is spitting
@@Bafael I'm pretty casual and I just enjoy the art and music above every other game, except the new KI.
@@Felipera_ Agree. 3S may still be my fav but I think the newest KI is the best FG I have ever played.
3s is a great game, definitely top 3 of all the SFers released so far, but there's nothing wrong with admitting that it is a far from perfect game and there is room for improvement and balance.
It felt somewhat heartwarming when you said you wanted to be famous so that you can contribute to the FGC significantly. I salute you.
He already did a lot for the fgc i would say, he really help a lot of people i just hope he gets more attention
I'm going to call this the "HD remix effect". They tried to rebalance Super Turbo, but the fans didn't like it for some reason. This goes to show you, sometimes the FGC's worst enemy is the FGC.
HDR had some really awful design decisions though, I don't know why 3S is singled out for being a badly-balanced game while HDR isn't being given flack.
Honda's lp headbutt alone kind of locks certain characters from being competitive.
HDR kinda trash
Hard agree
I love 3S to death, its my favourite video game full stop and has inspired me to get in to FGs. Been playing for years and hopefully will for years more
But it ain't perfect
Chun lacks depth and her SA3 is ridonkulous
Genei Jin is a "Stop playing 3S" super that Yun can build way too easily
12, Remy, Sean and Q lack the sheer data to be competitive
Most supers are either really bad in isolation, or bad in comparison to THE super the character should pick (Shippu for example)
Makotos Touch of Stun for one bar off a command grab
Charge partitioning having semi random leniency. Why?
Idk how anyone can say it's perfect, and this is coming from someone who sincerely adores it
Makoto SA I is more picked in tournaments than SA II, and to be honest i think both super are balanced, SA II is a high risk high reward thing, and is hard to do it consistently even tominaga misses alot of times.
Have you ever actually gotten hit by makotos touch of stun combo? I have never seen it being done by someone who isnt a top player
@@harryvpn1462 That doesn’t stop it from being unbalanced; don’t glorify execution
@@meathir4921 its hard. Yes the combo is stupid but its not smth that makes the game worse
Because it is perfect, the greatest fighting games, the ones that actually have legacy are all perfect in their imperfection. The super refined e sports driven balancing of today will ensure NONE of these games are revered/played 20 years from now the way 3S, A3, ST, Garou, MVC2, CVS2 etc all are.
You think people will be going back to T7, or SF5, ofcourse they won’t, people will go back to T5 and 3S, both unbalanced, both with “easy” fixes, both perfect.
...and with SF Collection repeating the mistakes of the past, this is still relevant as ever.
TeamSima In Capcom’s defense, this compilation is just to celebrate the anniversary. It was never marketed as anything but that.
This isn't even the first time I watched this video, and somehow I didn't know about the dip switches and the "use all supers" option. That sounds super fun. I've been trying to look it up to figure out how the game resolves that (different bar lengths, overlapping inputs), but I can't find any documentation online about it
You can choose how long the super bar is and how many supers it stocks. All supers cost the same amount, whatever the bar length you set is. The exceptions are kkz and raging demon which always consume all of akumas meter.
As for overlapping inputs, all supers have a secondary input if you turn on multiple supers. For example, I haven't done this in ages but if I recall correctly, 3 super oro has qcf qcf punch for kishin Riki, qcf qcf kick for yagyou dama, and qcb qcb punch for tengu stone
@@BafaelWhoh that's super interesting, thanks Baf. Just like Wultras in SF4 I feel like always playing with all supers is more interesting and fun in a casual setting. I played a decent amount of 3S with my more casual friends when 3SOE dropped, I wish I knew about this then.
Everything I know about 3rd Strike (not much btw) I learned from Baf let's watch East vs West videos. It's cool to hear him talk about something he cares about so much.
After watching Evo US and Japan almost a decade after this came out, this aged like wine.
So wait....you're saying 3rd Strike isn't the greatest fighting game of all time?!?
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Colonel Angus doesn't matter what he says tho because it is the greatest
well.. imo it is
I'd love a balanced version of Third Strike that adds in a couple new characters, some new stages and music, and fixes the sprite art errors (Elena's head).The problem is, who would make it? Capcom? Are you joking? When was the last time they did something right? Battle Network 5?
they make good video games now, now we're just waiting for that specific good video game
Even as a huge fan of third strike and a guy who really loves that game I have to agree that it would need some good old ass balancing to make it even better!
I would love to play as some low tier characters in a rebalanced version of 3S.
Holy shit! Thanks for posting this video and detailing the information especially about Fightcade and the dipswitches. I had no idea that the dipswitches existed for (re)balancing the game. The switch for turning off meter build for whiff attacks totally changes the game for me. My friend and I have been playing 3rd Strike via emulation and have been reconnecting as friends over a hiatus of about a decade; the game has definitely made us tighter and we look forward to and make time to get online to play.
Having said all that, we're definitely switching to Fightcade and enabling/toggling the dipswitch options. One of my main gripes with S.F. III is the stupid little meter building dance that happens during every match, especially first round with Dudley and/or Shoto characters.
I just wanted to leave a comment to thank you for all the time and information you've gathered and shared with us. I definitely appreciate it and wish you all the best, man!
is no one gonna talk about spherical_man saying oro will be in sf5
Mans a genius
Lol
I'm still salty to this day we didn't get some attempt at a fourth edition of Street fighter 3 even if it didn't see tournament play a lot I would still be curious to pick the game apart and probably have a blast doing it
Also I liked hd remix as well. I played st back in the day but wasn't competitive or seeking to get good or better until 3s. I think that's why I share so many opinions with you. And yes anyone that's never played with the dip switches in third strike should do it. It's a lot of fun if you turn on access to all three supers at once and add air blocking and normal chaining. Basically it's third strike but with marvel features. It gets pretty interesting and some stuff is kind of broken but it's a lot of fun to screw around with
I've been intrigued by the idea of a 3rd Strike rebalance as well, but I think there's a few reasons they didn't do it, and it's not because "the game is perfect":
1) there's a lot of game speed inconsistencies in the home console ports that leave hard-core players unhappy with the game, like Ken's hit confirms being harder on console. It changes the way the game is played. These issues would get baked in to any new version of the game you create.
2) The new version would lack credibility with the OG Japan scene, both because of the reason above and because there would be no CPS3 arcade release for the new game. That means the biggest scene in the world will continue to run tournaments etc. with the old version.
3) in general, I think that after-the-fact remasters come across as half-assed because theres minimal resources devoted to the new game. Things like new characters and stages are often what drive people to go get the new version. "Rebalancing" is by default something that only hard-core players would appreciate, and for the reasons above they already have reasons not to adopt the new game. New art resources would go a long way to making a new version of old-school games feel new and worthwhile.
this video ages like fine wine
as a 3s player ,while play sf4, i press foward every time enemy jump in :v
I did that for the first few months. I used to try and parry fireballs too. It just gets to be a gut response.
It's the same thing with melee. It's an awesome game, but it's got some issues. Issues that people have fixed. But when it comes to implementing those fixes, people get weird about it.
I wish a balance romhack would just take precedence over the main game.
It's cus there is no "Perfect fix" or one whole balance pack that isn't biased.
Even SD Remix buffs and nerfs things that don't help, of nerf the character properly.
@@AkiraSatou There are perfect fixes for Melee. Like removing freeze glitch.
Well Melee is basically a completely broken game which is what makes it beautiful, but certain things really have no reason to stay if they can be fixed (wobbling, freeze glitch, shit like that)
A lot of the issue is also just legitimacy. Like a melee patch that buffs the lower half of the roster to be more consistent would be cool but if it’s not the official product you can’t really condone that in tournaments because 1. Not everyone will be familiar with it if you jump ship to a new patch (it’s why major tournaments require a balance patch come out at least a month prior to the event for the integrity of the event because it’s be horrible to expect players to compete and find out half their combos don’t work anymore 3 days before the tournament weekend) and 2. Sponsorship in major events. Nintendo got pissy over slippi. You think a rom hack would fly over well? Because project M is literally the proof they will ask you to cut that shit out if you want their support.
I’d love for modded games to have scenes, but I fully understand why not. It’s just how things are.
I love the SF3:3S dipswitches. I really wish they got more attention.
I was literally going to pickup third strike but then I saw ceo 2019 top 8 was just yuns chuns and Kens and I got insanely discouraged
Play for fun lol, you don't need to play a top char to have a good time. Playing online you'll almost never bump into those characters anyway
@@Bafael the thing is I really want to attend tournaments. I'd like to make my way out to majors if I can and try my hardest to make it far in bracket but if my tourney experience is going to be yuns whiffing 5 normals into super I'm not gonna be as motivated to learn and get good at the game
@Bafael
> Playing online you'll almost never bump into those characters anyway
what? ken and yun are pretty popular on fightcade. chun-li is pretty rare but when someone is playing her they almost always know what theyre doing.
edit: actually yeah there are known dudes that play basically everyday that play nothing but ken and yun and youll spot them immediately
@@Omegadarkdrake I dunno how it is now but when I played fightcade years ago there were basically 0 Chun players and only a handful of Yuns (maybe 5 regulars), but the Yun players were all pretty/really good. Ken has always been popular online and there's a huge spectrum of skill among them. I think across 15 years playing online I've only fought maybe 10 good Chun lis total if even.
@@Omegadarkdrake idk maybe it's related with your region, I've been playing 3rd strike on fightcade over a month and only encounter 3 yun players and 0 chun (that know what they're doing), and yeah ken is popular everywhere.
can i mess around with the dipswitches in fightcade? i definitely want to try move cancelling and more juggle potential, that shit would be hella fun
Only a very small number like difficulty, damage, and timer speed.
I didn't know that the community was so against balancing the game...
...Well, if you want balanced 3rd Strike, Yatagarasu is a thing. It's not the same, and that's a large reason why I enjoy it much more than 3S.
I had that exact feeling. I thought people will want balance. But hey, you can never satisfy everyone.
I didn't fund it cuz I'm broke so I've been holding out for it to actually be released for ages
***** I really do recommend playing 4.3 right now. While all the characters did get massive buffs and changes, some still have their general playstyle there. Like, Japan is buying 4.3 en masse to practice for when they play AoC in arcades!
If you ever need tutorials/gameplay, I'm your guy to ask btw. You should certainly enjoy it even if it's not AoC.
*****
He already has it attention-seeker.
Saying that it's not a complete game is like saying Blazblue Calamity Trigger isn't a complete game btw.
***** No fighting you two :[
I think it would be really sick if a 4th version of SF3 came out that allowed you to use every previous version of every character, along with freely mixing and matching stages and music
Ok, that will be sick. Never really understood why they scrap such beautiful past stages, other than hardware limitation.
@@mrsammy7600 exactly, new generation had some beautiful stages.
Had to come back to this after EVO JP.
*Cries in Stun Gun Headbutt*
fr 😭
This showed up in one of my worst weeks of 2020 and it somehow gave me cathartic release. Thank you.
3s and Melee have so much in common its friking ridiculous, I feel like the unknown Baf in the smash community, noone wants to listen to me about in Smash but Im good enough to know whats wrong. any way, Baf your the best dude.
Everyone thinks they're the bafael of smash
I know this comment is hella old so I don’t mind if you don’t respond, but I’d like to hear what exactly these games have in common. I honestly don’t see much.
@@Luigi777888 one is an overrated game only played by hipsters who can't adapt to newer entries in the same franchise, criticizing them as baby games for casuals due to easier execution barriers all the while not being actually good at said game but acting as if they have any authority on discussion as a whole, and harass people who don't like their game. The other is 3rd Strike.
Most Vertical Productions Most Vertical Productions Most Vertical Productions I see a lot of people talk about melee this way, and often it comes from a lack of understanding of their situation.
Let me attempt to make an analogy in defense of the melee community’s disdain for the series’ later titles, not to say that their toxicity is okay, but that there’s a reason for it. If you don’t care, that’s coo, because I’m gonna yap a lot, but I’m sure there’s a lurker out there who likes this type of stuff. ;)
Street Fighter 2: Rainbow Edition. A hack that changed the trajectory of the series forever. Capcom saw and experienced the hack out of interest, since it was so wacky and popular, before shutting it down, ruining everybody’s fun. Afterwards Capcom took inspiration from the hack and introduced new, more fun and interesting mechanics, like Chun-Li having a fireball in first place, and air tatsus.
Melee. A game that changed the direction of the series forever. One of the most popular games ever, and it got competitive, so they made rules n shit for tournaments. Whatever. Nintendo saw this competitive scene and didn’t how the game was being played, saying things like, “it had no future.” As a direct result of this, when a sequel was made, they took every turn they could to remove what made Melee amazing. From the new wave dashing to the legacy mechanic of L-cancelling, previously known as Z-cancelling in Smash 64. Even further, they added “tripping” as a randomized mechanic, making just dashing a dangerous thing to do. All to remove any semblance of competitiveness in the game.
For more aggression against the smash community, the history of a hack by the name of Project M is important as well, but I won’t get into that unless someone asks.
These communities played their respective games the way they wanted but ensued in response should be telling. Capcom decided to build with their community, making a healthy relationship between developers and fans. Nintendo just spat in their community’s face, alienating and embittering them.
What do you think Street Fighter would look like if they did something similar?
Appart of the top 3 and bottom 3 and you have something really well balanced in 3S tho.
But it would probably be fun if we fixed top and bottom
That's a third of the roster.
the third strike community needs to go in melee's footsteps to finally cut all the bullshit out of the game to make it perfect like you literally stated 3 obvious fixes that would massively improve the game
I would kill for a rebalanced melee. More special moves should cancel to landing animation when interrupted like spacies lasers and I think needles does as well (?) (imagine double jump cancelling yoshi eggs into landing recovery). Let all the characters icies/pika and lower grab ledge from up b while facing away (like spacies and falcon). There's too much, but melee would be so much sicker to me if there were 7 top tiers and 8 high tiers instead of 3-4 top tiers and 3-4 high tiers
@@benjihuynh2970 melee has so many glaring issues too like game and watch not being able to l cancel half his aerials and a shit ton of moves that do not work as intended or have botched hitboxes.
@@kirbyjinet302 oh don't even get me fucking started on character specific stuff. Yes I would like to talk to the manager who decided Bowser should have an 8 (read: eight!) Frame jump squat. Like look he's fat I get it but chill the hell out melee
My biggest gripe with sf3 online edition as a casual is how it looks. Why does it look so weird? Why was the background in the menus replaced with a stock texture of stainless steel? Why is there no option to have the pixelated look?
The funniest thing about it is that it wouldn't have changed anything for peeps that still want to play OG 3S. They are going to play on arcade boards no matter what.
True but they already can
its kind of sad 3s oe is stuck on old consoles though, do you think theres any chance that itll be ported to modern systems at some point or is it just gonna be fightcade for always
I've been getting interested in actually playing 3s lately but the one thing that's been holding me back is the balance. I want to play twelve, he single-handedly got me interested in art, animation, and pixel art and I like how he plays as well. But I don't want to learn a new game playing quite possibly the worst character in the game. Like other characters are cool and stuff so I might end up playing Dudley or something, but the balance kinda puts me off. I feel like 3s just needs balance clean up like you said with super bars just changing length among other stuff. I'm probably gonna start taking the game seriously soon, I have been wanting to learn another fg for a while to expand my skill set. Anyway, 4th strike would be great. Good vid.
3rd strike is perfect as it is, the same way MVC2, CVS2 and Alpha 3 are, but I would have preferred 3.4 because something new woulda been sick. People complaining about new takes on games are morons, why complain about HD remix, when ST is ALWAYS gonna be there, just the way you liked it?
SF3 didn’t fail because of Chun-li dominance, it was a perfect storm of dying arcades, gameplay ahead of it’s time, meaningful deviation from its beloved predecessor (no legacy characters, zoning nerfed etc) and fandom being generally stupid.
If we really wanted an SF3: 4, we need a spiritual successor at this point. New characters, some nods to some old ones, new IP, same systems with a few updates here and there. It'd be a shit ton of work, but in the end we could get the same system with a new lease on life.
I think you shouldn't make the case and literally get a modded version with fair balance changes and start running brackets until people finally get it. hax is running a melee major where wobbling is patched out, it has programmed ledge grab limit, and a bunch of other fixes and it's on it's way to becoming standard. I'd be so happy dedicate myself to third strike if it didnt have the problems it had
8:27 make the regular version a dip switch. done and done
I badly wanna know how to find that version！
I don't think people dropped it because of the imbalance. There's plenty of games that are incredibly imbalanced but they're still played and are relevant in the FGC (3S, ST, MVC2), which is that people have realised that those games have less (viable) characters on the select screen and believe (might be true, might not be true, dunno) that between those characters, the game is balanced. Nothing inherently wrong with that kind of thinking. Of course if you're a new player and see characters that look awesome to you and you want to play them (the bad characters like Q, Sean etc) that's discouraging, but people fully explored those characters to find what good is in them, which is often difficult to implement tech, paired with having just incredible fundamentals. What I'm saying is that imbalance isn't something that stops people who want to play a game from playing it (though it can be one of many factors, it often isn't the overarching aspect).
I think people dropped the game simply because it was old. There were some people who weren't attached to 3S as much and they moved on to the new stuff. There are some who still like 3S over the new games and they still keep playing it, but that number won't rise realistically.
BTW balanced games aren't great at pulling in people either. Balance is often said to cause fun but I just don't see it. At least cast wide balance that is. All games have balance somewhere, and for the older games (or at least MVC2 and 3S, don't know this about ST as much since it's incredibly matchup heavy) that balance was the balanced top tier.
You're right, but hear me out. 3S was dropped in America in favor of Alpha 3 within the first couple years, and had a brief resurgence that turned it into a cult game following daigo parry (which is the reason nearly everyone I know got into it, myself included). 3s definitely had a much better hope of being a side game at tournaments again w/ a rebalance rather than a rerelease, if only because it's new and people can try to find out what's strong again. And the main reason it was unpopular wasn't balance EXPLICITLY, but it sort of was: it was a largely new cast which alienated players. A lot of the new, cool characters, such as twelve and Q and sean, that WERE popular by design, are completely unplayable for similar reasons to the fact that they're low tier. They're broken, stiff, bad characters. Sean additionally was really nerfed from 2i.
Balance hurts 3s a lot because it's a very high-skill-ceiling game with complex characters so you have to really commit yourself to a character. ST had worse balance than 3s but it's a lot simpler to play (not easier, the difficulty of a fighting game is based wholly on your opponent imo) and MVC2 has much more room for creativity and depth. Of course there's much more to it than that but that's my two cents anyhow.
damn just stumbled upon this vid
really important stuff, people who champion "arcade port purity" are actively preventing progress in fighting game communities
third strike could have and should have gotten a 4th edition with sweeping rebalances, but arcade purists rallied against that for no reason.
KOF98 actually got a brilliant rebalanced version which would be the competitive standard for KOF98 if not for the fact that it was only released on steam. Most KOF98 players I've spoken to agree that it's easily the best, most balanced version.
Third strike COULD have had that, but it didn't, because street fighter players have soup for brains
Actually, a big problem is that the ports of the game aren't arcade perfect. The game runs faster and you're typically not on a CRT (which funnily enough these nerf Chun, one of the biggest perceived issues with 3s, since reacting and hit confirming online is much harder barring OE).
Patching 3s would outdate all cabinets and previous versions so everybody would have to get new setups or buy the game again most likely on an inferior setup (Capcom can't even get the game speed to run properly on 30th, we're going to expect them to patch the game in a smart way and have it running optimally?). Some people wouldn't want the patched version so you'd have a split in an already small dedicated community (the "purists" vs people wanting change). Patching the game wouldn't remove the very steep learning curve so it's not as if a new crowd would be brought in to "revitalize"/streamline the game.
We actually did see this happen in ST, with SSF2THD Remix and guess what? Most people are playing the original ST.
So what's the lesson here? Even if you could argue patching 3s would be a good thing, the subsequent issues would make it not worth it. All the Japanese cab setups, all the American cabs, they're all out-dated now. Now we have to play some weird version on PC/PS/Xb that probably can't hook up to a CRT (or you'd have to do some wizardy, just more of a pain). A patch may ruin what made some of 3s so fun anyway, for instance messing with Yun's setup would ruin his unique style of game, same with Urien or Makoto. Sure maybe Chun would be balanced, maybe lower tiers would get more time to shine but I'm sure there'd be some new broken things you could do. At least keeping it the way it is we know what to expect and when you've played a game for decades, having to relearn it all over would be a pain.
@@SynthwavelLover demanding arcade perfection is part of the problem.
Kof 98 um released on ps2 and arcade too, only um fe was released on steam, but doesn't have any balance differences from previous version
Here in south america that same thing happened with kof 2002 and 2002 um, more people play the original one on fightcade than UM because the patches changes and they don't want to relearn the game. The most frustrating part is that they complain about things that are patched on UM version, like angel's infinite.
Responsive game with Low input lag > repatch that may or may not actually help the game
I never knew Online edition could have been SF3 4th Hit (or whatever the name would've been). Now I'm upset too.
i love MvC2 but fuck man, if we get a new HD re-re release, i would rather have a balance patch come with it. its cool that we are still playing the same game for this long but im down for some changes.
Anyone have this whole stream?
Oh my Dog I already loved you Baf but hearing you get heated about a 4th Edition, spicy meatball.
Also terminally butthurt about no rebalanced edition.
Haha I thought about this like in early 2000's. Like one was... Giving denjin *2 bars. Or yeah lessen chun like you said about her bars. But here we are
2 bars for denjin ? wouldn't that be a bit busted ?
@user-eh1gy2kn4q possibly! Hard to say across the board. But as we know to this day...clearly some characters have a chance against the top
i would still love it if they released a balanced version of 3rd strike that had no shitty supers and sean and twelve were playable. Not even saying they should make every super as good as like Ken SA3 but they should all be good enough to not be a handicap to use. 3S is already damn close to being a well balanced game except for Genei Jin and Chun SA2
Can someone explain the dip switch thing?
Dipswitches are selectable options for arcade games which arcade operators can use to change variables in how the game works without making a separate version.
It isn't directly in a user friendly and pretty options menu but tucked away so you can change variables in case your community of players doesn't like/need throws, thinks air parry is lame, need infinite lives or whatever else.
From the user perspective, it also means we can subtly rebalance the game on console releases in more ways than time and health, but it is still hidden away.
"So many people had opinions and now it's like, "Where are you?" So true every time an old game gets rollback. KoF98UMFE, 02UM, GGXXAC+R, GGXrd, Blazblue, so many old games that people swore were the best are ghost towns compared to how many people talk about them. Little by little they're running out of excuses, right now their mythical holy grail game is SF4, which of course they hated when it came out because it wasn't 3S. Eventually SF4 will get rollback and they'll be out of excuses. All they'll have left will be old Tekken games which of course they've never even touched.
(Also, those old games aren't _actually_ ghost towns. You can hop on any time and find a game, don't worry about skill difference, most of the people playing those games aren't half as good as they'd like you to think. Like, genuinely, the people in the beginner channel are indistinguishable from the normal channel.)
Is 4th strike considered balanced? Can it be played online?
I don't know, and yes. Fightcade can be used to play any arcade game online as long as both players have the same rom.
@@Bafael do you think it is balanced?
@@SpitefulAZ I've only played Oro and I've only played against Urien so I have no clue.
What really grinds my gears is the reason people didn't want another SFIII game was because they were too pussy to relearn the game at a higher level with a few fixed mechanics. They wanted a game with a pre-established meta
That's the sad thing about all this. Even the top players wouldn't have to relearn that much. All people who could get in touch with Capcom to do such a thing, stated that the game doesn't need much to get even more balanced. For most characters, it's just bugfix and proper frame-data. The overall game's meta would still be intact, and some characters (probably Urien and Oro) would keep their unintended unblockable setups, because removing them would damage their matchups.
No one wants to go the same route 4rd Strike did. Nobody wants Ultimate Sean, or a fake Hadoken for Ryu, or an "attempt" to make Gill playable. Most players just want to get rid of the bad bugs that plagued the game for so long, while keeping the good bugs that made the game what it is.
They really could have did st hd rebalance where they hd both editions of the game
I{m going to say that MyNameIsShrek predicted that Oro was going to be in SFV
this is such a good rant i come back annually to "yas queen" it
same
interesting I didn't know there was a chance for an official balanced version
I always had this wet dream that they would eventually get dlc characters for 3s. Like sagat in 3s etc...
Coming back to this game to learn it more intimately, this makes me pretty sad. Third strike is a beautiful game, but it has a lot of flaws.
I think I remember you from the pre sf4 days on srk. I was wantonx with the ronald mcdonald meme avatar that said what the shit? On it. I think I remember discussing stuff with you when event hubs was just getting started I remember it because I was one of the people that contributed to the Ryu section and I think I just remember you from the discussions about the other characters in general because you were actually smart.
And yeah people like me and you got ignored a lot as newbies back around like 03-06ish. I was on there constantly when anniversary collection was on original Xbox online and stayed pretty regular until right before ultra Street fighter 4. Now I still play but not competitively anymore I had to go home and be a family man 🤣
Gotta say I could barely stand average Street fighter players opinions before this, now I know my hunch was right
this will piss me off forever. imagine what it could have been.
Sf3 4th fight
A bit late to the party, but yeah. If the base version is always going to be around go ahead and create a new version. Pokemon did this in BDSP and LGPE. BDSP is a remake with only cosmetic changes and a terrible competitive scene due to the loss of move tutors, whereas LGPE is a hot mess because there's things that should've never been added to the game. I'm surprised Capcom even asked for opinions
veterans are too entrenched and adjusted to the bullshit while scrubs orbiting the game just parrot their opinions to sound cool.
the thing that gets me is why not play both the original and the remix? what's so hard about that? you're not winning Evo main stage in this game anyway at this point.. just give HD Remix, Omega, 4rd Strike a try.. get out of your comfort zone and learn a new character in the other version. it's as if people don't know how to have fun..
Imagine being at disadvantage for LANDING A SUPER. lol okay perfect game right?
Which character is that?
Wait the game could've been fixed like 7 years ago!?!?
sf 3 online edition being an sf 3 hd remix edition would have been amazing. No idea why they didnt do that. The balance is actually the worst thing about sf 3 IMO. Probably the thing most holding it back. Its the best SF game, but balance could make it a lot better.
It not the best sf game
Honestly it would be cool if they executed it well, but knowing capcom they would fuck it up.
There has been a big anti-balance movement in games in general and its annoying.
really?
@@masheen8724 Harada: Games should be FUN, not balanced
The same thing said by Super Akouma, and it was implied by Core-A gaming as well. There are many other examples but I can't remember it from the top of my head. I think it all started with a Mrbtongue video
Oh i see what your saying. I know how annoying that can be when people imply games can't be fun and balanced at the same time. Oh yeah which video are you talking about as well?
@@masheen8724 I think its the "why we should buff more than nerf" but I am not sure
@@boitahaki i watched that video its good but buffing doesn't solve everything. Too much might lead to power creep which is another problem. Or the overpowered stuff stay at the top regardless of the buffs.
What? OE could have been a new update for SF3?
Holy fuck that's some wasted potential. I love 3s but the game needed better balance.
can always play the rom hack 4th strike. It's very meh though.
I like it.
@@Bafael it's insanely fun, my IRL group has been gettin more and more into fighting games, and 4rd strike is our main go to that get the group going competitively, it's done tons for them to finally enjoy FGs on a deeper level and start wanting to get better. I absolutely love 4rd strike.
I guess you cant teach old dogs new tricks.
I'll admit I have Stockholm syndrome I knew this game was unbalanced but this game told me to deal with it even though Chun and Yun won majority of tournaments this game has surprises and you'll see someone win with a low tier character once in awhile. In short I know it's unbalanced but I don't see the point of balancing it now.
"Once in a while" is the problem I see with your statement. A 3S rebalance is LONG overdue. At LEAST give the people an option to choose which version they like the most. The annoying thing about purists is that nobody would restrict you from playing the 3S you still loved for years....at least allow a breath of fresh air of contents for the people, and allow us to have a choice.
@@zfee8328 the thing about us "purist" is that we stuck with this game when everyone abandoned it, so much that we've learned to play around it. The casuals will always leave and is "purist" will stay around
@@OscinoFilms Nobody is saying to get rid of 3S as it is now, again people should have options. Doesn't matter what you think of casuals, keep playing the original 3rd Strike if you feel that way. I get where you're coming from but it would be a much welcomed thing to patch in a new version of the game, and make it fresh again. You "purists" are the reason the game won't reach potentially new heights, smh. It gets repelling to some to see YunChunKen dominate with cheap shit after 20+ years. As much as I love this game, I personally go on and off, I do my best to use lower tier characters (simply because they are more fun), but there's a clear ceiling when there's so much more unnecessary and overpowered strength, making your odds of winning slim. Which is why a rebalance would be welcomed with open arms, at least for me and probably many others
@@zfee8328 even if you rebalance the game it wouldn't matter they're just gonna find the best characters and try to win with them every game does it. I'm still seeing the same characters in SFV make top 8, same with Tekken and same with MK11, so why change it?
@@OscinoFilms 3S isn't the same as those games. Make some big changes and it'll be a fairly even playing field
They tried to nerf Urien after the game was released and that backfired. I’d rather not see it altered.
Not really nerfing Urien directly rather just nerfing unblockables
Baf go off My dude
Out of my way! Sory im late!
I mean that's the problem with trying to rebalance older titles.
The unbalanced jank has become part of the meta and the game's identity; to remove the jank would alienate the playerbase, and the game's too old for new players to be interested in it, so nobody ends up playing it.
Purity nochange gamers are the most unreasonable. Pandering or engaging with them is pointless. Just let them stew in their corner and do your thing.
Great Rant!
Bad Balance = Ken.
That's all I say to that. Like how the beep do one counter him and his Fierce Shoryuken? You can't even punish that shit. Ken's allowed to be hyper aggressive because he does so much damage with everything he uses. Hate him. Even more so than Urien.
Hilariously, my friend wasn't really buying it and he was fighting a really strong opponent on Fightcade while I spectated, and he couldn't win one round as Ken.
So I told him " _Pick Chun Li. Just do it once._ " so he did - *And Won*. And we laughed, because he knew *nothing* of how to play Chun Li, and yet he still won without even breaking a sweat.
Yeah no. I wanted to like Third Strike, and I kinda do, but I think I prefer 2nd Generation better of the SFIII versions.
But overall, SF3 isn't really a good fighting game in my opinion.
Okay the balance of SF3 can be pretty bad but...
1. Ken's hard DP isn't broken at all, and it's really easy to punish. DP's in 3s in general are pretty bad.
2. Urien isn't good at all unless he's in the hands of an insanely good player, and even then he's only like high tier.
3. the traditional tier lists don't come into play until you're playing at quite a high level. If someone on fightcade lost to a chun-li from a guy who'd never played chun-li before, they weren't a really strong opponent.
5. Second impact is ridiculously more broken and imbalanced than third strike
I'm not trying to pick on you and I think ken and chun-li are pretty busted but it sounds like you didn't give 3s a fair try at all.
Oh trust me, I've given Third Strike *more* than a _little_ chance. I still play it even though whenever I meet Ken, I just want to go and hang myself.
As for the Chun-Li, I'd argue that my friend never played Chun-Li which possibly threw the player off.
Sorry but if you think ken is the problem you don't understand the issues. Ken is popular because he can do well against the issues.
@@Bafael
1 2 3 5
I was an ST and SF4 guy and only took up 3rd Strike when 30th Anniversary came out. Love the game but jesus the balance is horrendous! Even the scrubbiest Chun player gives me nightmare trouble, whilst I beat good players not using Chun and Yun....speaking as a Q main.
Props to you. I'm a necro main.
i enjoyed the lecture but title was a little misleading
Thank you for saying HD Remix was good. It was extremely good and extremely fun.
3S, Alpha 3 and MvC2 are broken games that are fun. SF4 was broken and not fun. Vortex, 50 / 50 lp lp / lk lk, combo that drains your life and you die. I can’t tell you how much I don’t care for the later sf games.
This game has cemented itself as a classic. It’s something that sort of exists in its own sphere. I’d be interested in a hd remix, but the community won’t accept “chun li with one bar” or “denjin that requires more charging time for stun” that messes with the meta of the game.
That's a closed minded perspective considering the stagnation of the meta and people always yapping off the same top tiers in important tournaments, if Capcom gave this game a chance again did some changes to super balance and added some characters the game would be more popular considering the low resources that it takes to run it and how deep it is and how even after all this years the sprites are one of the best.
Any time a dev changes things they have the possibility of also fucking things up. People who've played a game for 2 decades are really scared of this because they have to give up decades of nuanced game knowledge that could go down the drain for a game that's potentially not as balanced.
3s doesn't go away if a rebalance flops. People still play ST when HD remix exists.
Balance is bad
No
@@tanyaharmon6739 yes
@@pabloxyz0 no
@@pabloxyz0 sf4 to usf4 you'll get my point.
After seeing the utter trash that is USF2, I don't mind not seeing SF3.4 getting released.
Whiffing normals for meter should be removed entirely because it's dumb.
It's completely opposite behavior compared to, say, guilty gear where you are rewarded meter for being aggressive but punished for turtling behavior.
I main Elena and tbh I would be disgusted with her if she was rewarded stupid fast normals like chun and just escape fullscreen and spam it just to abuse SAIII
It’s actually very important. If you get rid of this…why approach? People always say this but they never think it through at all. Genei jin is overpowered but it’s why Chun li actually has a losing matchup. If you just turtle with Chun li in normal 3s you lose because yun builds his win condition first and your pokes lose to his now. It forces the two to engage.
Without it? Why approach. If I’m Yun I’ll just play super passively because parry lets me punish you for approaching me and then I get the meter advantage so I’m definitely not approaching now. And if I’m Chun li my meterless damage is awful so I have to play even lamer because now I can’t make comebacks anymore. It’s not stupid it prevents a stalemate. Garou has generally no meter grinding. This makes plenty of match ups very patient and passive because approaching and zoning are both pretty terrible in a game where most the cast essentially have Kara dp. But several characters can whiff moves to build bar. And fittingly their range and footsies capabilities are very bad. This forces you to approach them because everyone essentially has houyoku sen. Which means they don’t get walled out because they have a tool to force you to approach.
That’s why it isn’t dumb. Without it the bad characters just get worse and the passive characters get more passive because when parry exists any poor approach can be fatal but the pressure of meter economy forces you to weight your options in the moment and keeps the game more interesting on a moment to moment basis.
The dev team isn't the same, they would just fuck it up. This lesson has been learned the hard way many times, not just with fighting games. Always better to keep re-releases untouched.
this game is kinda weird, because is balanced but because everyone has a broken thing in one way or antoher
That is absolutely not true. My most busted thing on Alex is I have a frame 3 medium punch that does everything but zone. Sean’s mist busted thing is being able to lose 50% for LANDING TATSU. This revisionist nonsense always pretends that all characters had busted stuff when that’s not true. Ban top 3 from a tournament and 12 doesn’t suddenly become amazing. This game is explicitly held back from perfection because of how badly it’s balanced where Ibuki lost a super because it was too strong so they gave it to Chun li but better without a hint of irony.
Slow the fuck down, Baf. People need to understand (at that time) 3rd strike was not a popular game. It was only until moment 37 that a spark was ignited, and from Crapcom's POV, they needed to make a decision to either spend money on 3s and create a *new game* or not...(they choose the latter, aka *3s online whatever*)
But also, good vid.
OE came out in 2011. Evo moment 37 happened in 2004. SF4 was the new game that happened because of Evo 37. I'm talking about OE when I say they had a choice to make a new SF3 version or to faithfully port it. OE was announced well after SF4 had already done WAY better than SF3 ever did.
anyone who bashes on 5 and endorses 3s is a hypocrite
*The main reason I don't use GGPO is because you have to pirate the games to play them.* Either that, or rip an arcade board, which I don't think I'll ever do. If companies would just release their arcade games in a DRM-free way, then it would allow people like me that have an ethical issue with pirating a game to actually play that game. Yeah, most people would still pirate them anyway, but 1) Companies could still make *some* money from game sales as opposed to *no* money from pirates, and 2) It would probably help to set a precedent that would allow them to shut down pirates, which would make making money from their game sales more likely.
DiscoCokkroach LMFAO you can’t be serious
The fact that they don't sell the game shows that they don't give a shit about piracy. Capcom could easily throw their roms up onto an online store for $5 each and they'd both make money and give people who don't want to pirate a legitimate way to own the rom. If this isn't a big deal to Capcom, then I sure as hell am not about to miss out on playing great games on Fightcade over it.
How to pirate ethically:
Step 1: Do you own the game?
Yes- Go to step 2.
No- Buy it, then go to step 2.
Step 2: Pirate the game.
The only unethical part of piracy is that the original creator isn't getting money in return for a product they took a large financial risk to make.
If you go out and buy 3S:OE, or if you bought 3S on PS2 or Saturn back in the day, you have satisfied your duty. Anyone who would demand that you pay money for permission to play a game you legally own in a different box is greedy or an idiot.
Exactly awkwardcultism. Just buy OE for the PS3 or 360 and then pirate it without any guilt. That's a good option for people who have this moral dilemma. I don't even play my copy of OE on PS3 since I prefer fightcade. I'll probably even get the 30th anniversary collection on Steam when it comes out unless it's broken, but imo paying $40 when I only really want it for 3rd Strike isn't something I'd expect other people to do.
It's really odd to me people like you exist. 1) Companies, especially ones involved in game development and publishing keep proving they don't have any ethical standards when it comes to game emulation and piracy and frequently do dumbshit like release pirated roms of their own games like Nintendo.
2) You have videos of Melee light all over your channel which has assets ripped straight out of Melee lol
Grade A idiot
"chun li's footsies are balanced"
ok bafaeel
Leave the game alone you whiner. It’s fine the way it is. Learn to play the game.
Did you even watch the video
Yeah! That Bafael guy just needs to stop whining and learn how to play 3S! Tell 'em Raul.
FT5 him then, scrub
@@GIR177 OK BOOMER!!!
I agree