This was shortly after the Earth Mimbari War and humanity was nearly wiped out. So, a lot of people were scared. And as a great Jedi master once said. "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."
That’s like saying, hypothetically, Russia had all the nukes in the Cold War and chose not to bomb the shit outta the US when it had every chance. We won… in the sense we didn’t die immediately
There was probably a lot of resentment towards the races of the League of Non-Aligned Worlds as well since Earth saved them from the Dilgar, and they did not return the favor by coming to Earth's aid during the Minbari War.
Babylon 5 is perhaps the best show I've ever seen when it comes to planning ahead and foreshadowing (quite literally, as it turns out). It's like they knew exactly what the last episode would be before they even started the first, and that's the kind of dedication which can carry a series from good to great, and from great into a masterpiece.
Yeah, it's crazy how Straczynski understood that there was a good chance of eventually having 'casting issues' on a show that with a specific (5 season?) story arc that included so many 'crucial' characters. So he actually established BACK UP plans FOR EVERY CHARACTER, to either re-cast or eliminate them if there were ever any issues with the actors!
Well what you say is the case because that's what actually happen. JMS had an outline for the whole story written in advance in a locked safe. There where some changes, but yeah he had very little changes from the outline he wrote.
For my money, the thing that makes groups like that insidious is not getting carried away in the simplicity of "our side good, their side bad" or things like that, but that the arguments of the Home Guard and the later, officially sanctioned Night Watch, had elements of truth to them. The Minbari spent two years relentlessly driving Humanity to the point of extinction in a rampage so brutally thorough that nearly* all the other races flatly refused to help, and then apparently never bothered to even start explaining anything about the conflict until a decade after the war - Delenn had to talk the B5 station's defenses down from making the same mistake about Minbari warships with open gun ports that led to the war in the first place - but then they expect to be all buddy-buddy with Humanity? They apparently didn't even tell their own people why the war had to stop, which led to multiple false-flag attempts by the Minbari Warrior Caste to goad Humans into restarting the war so the Minbari could stop being haunted by the dishonor of a job left undone. Beyond the Minbari, the other major races haven't exactly been big friends of Humanity. The Centauri demonstrated themselves to be self-interested manipulative bastards from day one, claiming they invented the hyperspace gates and trying to trick Humanity into becoming a client state. They also destroyed the only chance at ending the war before the revelation at the Battle of the Line, though that was on the down-low and they didn't know the damage they were doing. The Vorlons basically got out of the "helping people" business back when Humanity's cutting-edge communications technologies were drums and signal flags. The Narns _did_ agree to help during the Earth-Minbari War, but only by selling weapons to EarthForce through the darkest of black-market channels - and even then, only because they got to charge outrageous prices, and the weapons being sold were Centauri designs that would frame the Narns' rivals if the scheme was discovered. If you were Joe Q. Taxpayer in that era, still mourning friends and family lost to a war with no obvious reason for its beginning or end, it's not hard at all to conclude that Humanity ultimately has no real allies, and any offer from other species should be treated with extreme caution. As far as the Home Guard goes, that part of their message is... Well, it's _true._ The Home Guard's methods, larger conclusions, and simplistic world view are garbage, of course, but that stubborn kernel of truth behind their words is still there.
That's why I love Babylon 5 it had the type of real world politics you don't get in most sci fi shows, there was no rousing speech and everyone sat down for a diplomatic conference and forgive and forget each other. There were consequences for events and actions, double or triple deals , outright power plays and threats that were not only made but carried out anyway.
Yep. The Warrior Caste of the Minbari, by and large, would've been pleased as punch to restart the Earth-Minbari War and leave Earth a charred cinder. When faced with a genocidal threat, and no one willing to step up to help Earth, even though it had been a good-faith actor with the Non-Aligned Worlds prior to hostilities, the rise of a group like Home Guard was, in real terms, inevitable.
I wouldn’t call it the genesis. It’s the introduction to the situation, but the genesis is probably the Mimbari War and the residual resentments caused by that war. That said, The War Prayer is probably the episode where viewers are introduced to that problem.
"Hiroshi! Get out of there! Get to the lifepods." "Too late to get out! Our primary systems are hit. We've got fire on all decks now. There's nothing we can do now except..." "Hiroshi? HIROSHI! " This scene always makes me shed a tear.
By the time of this episode, unbeknownst to the viewers the Shadows have infiltrated Earth and have gained power through Vice President Clark. The story is so well written that it only hints at this, but it is there and will be shown later. The episode only begins the arch for the Earth Civil War, but the roots of that arch happened far before. Following episodes with detail some of the prior events, like the Icarus being overwhelmed by the Shadows on Kaza Dum, and the crew either helping the Shadows or being killed or enslaved. This would lead them back to earth and the agenda of chaos the Shadows champion would then begin to make its presence felt on Earth, mostly through Clark who used the Earth Minbari war and the growing anti alien sentiment on earth to his and the Shadows advantage. It also must be remembered that the "aliens" have not always had Earth interests at heart. When the Centauri came to Earth they lied and said that it was a lost colony of the Centauri, who knows eventually what the Centauri would have done with Earth if left their own devices, for example look at Narn. The Narn sold weapons to Earth to profit from the Earth Minbari War. The Minbari came close to annilating Earth themselves. There were some good precedents set to not trust the intentions of aliens. Also if you read some of the books you would see that the Vorlons had come to Earth centuries before to create Telepaths and to influence humans, this is also gone over in one of the episodes of the show to a lesser degree. One of the results of the Vorlon influence on Earth, and other worlds, is seen when Kosh shows his true form and appears as an Angel to the Humans, and as a similar divine being to the other races influenced by the Vorlons. This was done in order to influence them to follow the Vorlons and their ideology of Order. Those not influenced so did not see a divine being, or angel, such as Molari, who sees nothing. The writing of Babylon 5 was superb. While at times it hit you over the head with moral proclamations, often it didn't and showed the moral ambiguity of so much of the Babylon 5 universe. It is my favorite Sci Fi show, and I think it always will be.
Nice to see you revisiting Babylon 5. These vids are gonna be much more contemporary, not just because of the reboot starting production next year, but also just by the way of the world these days.
Thanks for going here, it reminds me of a simpler time when producers didn’t confuse special effects and political messaging for plots and character development.
"This is Ambassador Delenn of the Minbari. Babylon 5 is under our protection. Withdraw, .. or be destroyed." [in the White Star!] "Negative. We have authority here. Do not force us to engage your ship." "Why not? Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else." One of the best scenes in any sci-fi
@@enterprisedavidcain Johns future wife. We'd all like a wife like that 😁 Remember that scene when she came in to the office with John and the doc and she kept on saying the b word.. Or when she guilt Tripped John to come to dinner with guests and grouch? Best relationship in b5 I miss Mira
Sheridan's capture on Mars is my all time favorite Sci fi scene. the music really makes it and I've never had a reaction like that to any show before. my jaw hit the floor.
One of the main problems i have with 90s sci-fi is they never take these subject serious and treat the fact that humans almost being wiped out by aliens would make this issue almost guaranteed to happen and would even make sense . Treats that hostile reaction as almost unnatural and freaky which it certainly wouldn't be .
I loved B5, in a world of perfect no conflict humans of TNG this was a breath of fresh air, my favorite Sci-fi series. Everything was so complex, there where good guys and bad guys, but the best part was it turned out the forces of light and darkness was not good vs evil, more order vs chaos. Where order was just as wrong as chaos.
“Who am I? I am Susan Ivanova. Commander. Daughter of Andrei and Sofie Ivanov. I am the right hand of vengeance, and the boot that is going to kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth, sweetheart! I am death incarnate, and the last living thing that you are ever going to see. God sent me.”-Ivanova in her most badass speech ever.
In the earth civil war a lot of soldiers died who were only following orders they were doing what they were told to do and that is truly the saddest part of all of this
*Humans and alien historians who study Earth history* - Uhhh crap. Here we go again!. *Shadows in the background* - Get the popcorn. This is the good remake!.
I believe this started with the Dilgar invasion, 30 years earlier. In the movie, "In the Beginning...", Londo had a meeting with Earth Force leadership about gaining intel on the Minbari so Earth Force can have the upper hand in their first contact with the Minbari. The conversation was one-sided, and the EA officers displayed their arrogance, claiming that "...if we can handle the Dilgar, we can handle the Minbari'". Of course, that arrogance led to the Earth/Minbari war. Two things that arrogance and hate have in common, is that they are both rooted in ignorance. That's why I believe that the anti-alien sentiment had it's roots in the Dilgar invasion.
The genesis of the civil war started probably earlier, when Clark did his political campaigning before combining forces with Santiago. "Make earth great again", "Earth alliance first", ... Everything the shadows want younger species to think.
@@ronaldmccomb8301 Exactly. First you you got to spend time with the characters so you got to understand their motivations. E.g. Sinclair had to beat his instincts, to be fair and even handed despite the trauma he suffered during the war. Delenn trying to make up after the war after her decision almost cost the Extinction of a entire race.. And going back to Sinclair. The guilt he must've had knowing that the war had to happen despite going back 1000 years to become valen to make sure future events played out. Plus with the main story like the civil war or Londos desire for centauri prime to powerful again and the different side stories like Franklins addiction problems, or Garibaldis drinking problems, they planted the seeds of them and took time to let them play out
Actually I'd say it goes back to the Dilgar War. The league was getting pounded until Earth swooped in and saved the day, earning the gratitude and respect of virtually all the known alien races. But when Earth faced annihilation from the Minbari, those same races turned their backs on humankind without hesitation. Some grudgingly understood they were avoiding certain death. Others saw it as the reveal of their true colors, and betrayal is not easily forgiven or forgotten
The genesis of the Civil War was the Earth-Minbari war itself. The utter destruction and helplessness in the face of the Minbari. The complete abandonment (at least publicly) of all the alien allies they'd had at the time. Ultimately the anti-alien sentiment in Bablyon 5 was a response to the helplessness and fear engendered in humanity by the Minbari. The fact that the Minbari "surrendered" to the Earth Alliance was no salve either because nobody outside the Minbari knew WHY. And even in the Minbari it was only the highest echelons of power that knew the truth.
It's very much an on the nose allegory for the rise of a certain not so friendly Casper cosplayers "family" in the Deep South. B5 is wonderful source of deep reflections of modern and poignant subjects.
Myself I feel that it is deeper than that humanity has always had the we are better than everyone in scifi series at least. And while many of the core races in B-5 felt that way humanity was one of the ones who could back it up. The Centari while just as powerful most of the time played the long game while the Narns either were just as powerful as humanity or were just below but were so quick to fight that it would get them on trouble. While the Manbari were not only stronger than humanity they like the Vorlons or Shadows were well beyond humanity and that was something that humanity couldn't take. Now while humanity survived the war they realized they needed to change and grow stronger and ultimately came in the form of the Shadows which a large part of humanity willingly ran into the arms of.
Sounds like fertile ground to plant the seeds that'd turn into civil war but it's been so long since seen most of this series not personally sure if I'd say this is the Genesis origins of this civil war arc
The genesis of what stoked the EA Civil War goes back to PsiCorps being involved in black projects run under the IPX (Interplanetary Expeditions) banner ("Messages From Earth"), such as the uncovering of a Shadow warship @ Syria Planum. Coupled with the fact that agencies like Bureau 13 were active long before Clark's rise to power through assassination (A Spider in the Web), and PsiCorps seeding Dust among the normal human population (Dust To Dust), it's more logical to put the blame at the feet of the Corps. Remember; Garibaldi's exec (the one who betrays him) points this out before he gets "extradited" back to Earth, openly disdainful of the insinuation that he's part of Homeguard - "There's a new order coming back home, Garibaldi; you can either be part of it, or you can be stepped on." Further, that exec covered up the death of a security guard named Benson on orders from Knight One (And A Sky Full of Stars), whom - according to writers on the show - was attached to Bureau 13, and - thus - the PsiCorps. Ultimately, the Gestapo version of Anne McCaffrey's Talents is at the center of about 90% of what culminates in the EA Civil War. All you have to do is loom at the evidence.
I think just the fact that Humans have an incredible ability to hate each other and then other species is all the genesis you need. They just nearly got exterminated by one alien race so that would do it.
@@LoreReloaded Straczynski is back running it. That's even better than I could have hoped for. I thought I read he had a falling out with Hollywood. Cheers for letting me know about that.
yay! I love B5, happy to see you shaking things up a bit..... it was fantastically written to the point that this show completely changed the SciFi genre. It was the first to not just tell stories episodically. ... However, there IS one single moment that pushed/caused all the drama you talked about *SPOILERS* if you haven't watched the show. -The events of "War Without End". if Sinclair hasn't gone back in time, Minbari souls wouldn't have merged with humans and the Minbari wouldn't have surrendered and would have exterminated our entire species
Suck a GREAT series! Just unfortunate that they couldn't afford to use practical effects, and had to settle for the cheaper CGI option, which just doesn't hold up. I guess we're lucky that CGI allowed for a budget that managed to get the show produced AT ALL... However other than just completely redoing all of the SFX and somehow re-inserting the actors into every scene using 'advanced AI Visual Effects tools' (which likely don't exist), the 'outer space' shots are never going to look any better. :(
This was shortly after the Earth Mimbari War and humanity was nearly wiped out. So, a lot of people were scared. And as a great Jedi master once said. "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."
@@lennierofthethirdfaneofchu7286 True, though even after a decade there were still huge gulfs of unknowns between the Minbari and Mankind. Delenn had to talk Babylon 5's defense grid down from making the same mistake that led to the Earth-Minbari War in the first place: namely, that a Minbari War Cruiser with open gun ports is not a threat, but is instead a sign of honesty and respect. Ten years after the end of the war, this was still completely new information to Sinclair and Ivanova.
@@lennierofthethirdfaneofchu7286 Yes, still recent memory. Only the very young won't remember how they were a hair from defeat, and everyone had no idea why the Minbari surrendered.
@@LoreReloaded 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. Maybe because it's just a good story and that's all there is to it. ( binge watching the series right now btw, forgottenhow much fun it was)
Like this comment - to dislike the Video. Hope you all enjoy this foray out of Star Trek.
Imma dislike this comment then, because I like the video
So glad you're able to focus on masterpieces like B5!
Well appreciated. Especially since Kurtzman is driving trek like a drunk, blind, and deaf thirteen year old with a neurological disorder.
I'm confused. I like this video so do I dislike the comment? Don't do this to me when I'm high man!
I’d love more B5 content.
This was shortly after the Earth Mimbari War and humanity was nearly wiped out. So, a lot of people were scared. And as a great Jedi master once said. "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."
Don’t worry, the Minbari surrendered on the Line. That means Earth won, right? XD
I was also going to note that the Battle of the Line, or the Earth-Mimbari War in general, could be considered the origins of the sentiment.
That’s like saying, hypothetically, Russia had all the nukes in the Cold War and chose not to bomb the shit outta the US when it had every chance. We won… in the sense we didn’t die immediately
There was probably a lot of resentment towards the races of the League of Non-Aligned Worlds as well since Earth saved them from the Dilgar, and they did not return the favor by coming to Earth's aid during the Minbari War.
He wasn't so great that he could save his fellow Jedi or see the Evil Emperor from 5 feet away.
Babylon 5 is perhaps the best show I've ever seen when it comes to planning ahead and foreshadowing (quite literally, as it turns out). It's like they knew exactly what the last episode would be before they even started the first, and that's the kind of dedication which can carry a series from good to great, and from great into a masterpiece.
Yeah, it's crazy how Straczynski understood that there was a good chance of eventually having 'casting issues' on a show that with a specific (5 season?) story arc that included so many 'crucial' characters.
So he actually established BACK UP plans FOR EVERY CHARACTER, to either re-cast or eliminate them if there were ever any issues with the actors!
Well what you say is the case because that's what actually happen. JMS had an outline for the whole story written in advance in a locked safe. There where some changes, but yeah he had very little changes from the outline he wrote.
For my money, the thing that makes groups like that insidious is not getting carried away in the simplicity of "our side good, their side bad" or things like that, but that the arguments of the Home Guard and the later, officially sanctioned Night Watch, had elements of truth to them.
The Minbari spent two years relentlessly driving Humanity to the point of extinction in a rampage so brutally thorough that nearly* all the other races flatly refused to help, and then apparently never bothered to even start explaining anything about the conflict until a decade after the war - Delenn had to talk the B5 station's defenses down from making the same mistake about Minbari warships with open gun ports that led to the war in the first place - but then they expect to be all buddy-buddy with Humanity?
They apparently didn't even tell their own people why the war had to stop, which led to multiple false-flag attempts by the Minbari Warrior Caste to goad Humans into restarting the war so the Minbari could stop being haunted by the dishonor of a job left undone.
Beyond the Minbari, the other major races haven't exactly been big friends of Humanity. The Centauri demonstrated themselves to be self-interested manipulative bastards from day one, claiming they invented the hyperspace gates and trying to trick Humanity into becoming a client state. They also destroyed the only chance at ending the war before the revelation at the Battle of the Line, though that was on the down-low and they didn't know the damage they were doing. The Vorlons basically got out of the "helping people" business back when Humanity's cutting-edge communications technologies were drums and signal flags. The Narns _did_ agree to help during the Earth-Minbari War, but only by selling weapons to EarthForce through the darkest of black-market channels - and even then, only because they got to charge outrageous prices, and the weapons being sold were Centauri designs that would frame the Narns' rivals if the scheme was discovered.
If you were Joe Q. Taxpayer in that era, still mourning friends and family lost to a war with no obvious reason for its beginning or end, it's not hard at all to conclude that Humanity ultimately has no real allies, and any offer from other species should be treated with extreme caution. As far as the Home Guard goes, that part of their message is...
Well, it's _true._
The Home Guard's methods, larger conclusions, and simplistic world view are garbage, of course, but that stubborn kernel of truth behind their words is still there.
That's why I love Babylon 5 it had the type of real world politics you don't get in most sci fi shows, there was no rousing speech and everyone sat down for a diplomatic conference and forgive and forget each other. There were consequences for events and actions, double or triple deals , outright power plays and threats that were not only made but carried out anyway.
That was alsi what made humand perfect targets for tge Shadows to start and take over.
Yep. The Warrior Caste of the Minbari, by and large, would've been pleased as punch to restart the Earth-Minbari War and leave Earth a charred cinder. When faced with a genocidal threat, and no one willing to step up to help Earth, even though it had been a good-faith actor with the Non-Aligned Worlds prior to hostilities, the rise of a group like Home Guard was, in real terms, inevitable.
Excellent commentary
One of the best things about Babylon 5 was the storytelling.
I wouldn’t call it the genesis. It’s the introduction to the situation, but the genesis is probably the Mimbari War and the residual resentments caused by that war.
That said, The War Prayer is probably the episode where viewers are introduced to that problem.
Attempted genocide does tend to have an impact on the ol' collective psyche.
"Hiroshi! Get out of there! Get to the lifepods."
"Too late to get out! Our primary systems are hit. We've got fire on all decks now. There's nothing we can do now except..."
"Hiroshi? HIROSHI! "
This scene always makes me shed a tear.
Epic if sad
In a series full of such memorable moments that was definitely one of the highest IMHO
@@euchiron
Self sacrifice. One final act
By the time of this episode, unbeknownst to the viewers the Shadows have infiltrated Earth and have gained power through Vice President Clark. The story is so well written that it only hints at this, but it is there and will be shown later. The episode only begins the arch for the Earth Civil War, but the roots of that arch happened far before. Following episodes with detail some of the prior events, like the Icarus being overwhelmed by the Shadows on Kaza Dum, and the crew either helping the Shadows or being killed or enslaved. This would lead them back to earth and the agenda of chaos the Shadows champion would then begin to make its presence felt on Earth, mostly through Clark who used the Earth Minbari war and the growing anti alien sentiment on earth to his and the Shadows advantage. It also must be remembered that the "aliens" have not always had Earth interests at heart. When the Centauri came to Earth they lied and said that it was a lost colony of the Centauri, who knows eventually what the Centauri would have done with Earth if left their own devices, for example look at Narn. The Narn sold weapons to Earth to profit from the Earth Minbari War. The Minbari came close to annilating Earth themselves. There were some good precedents set to not trust the intentions of aliens.
Also if you read some of the books you would see that the Vorlons had come to Earth centuries before to create Telepaths and to influence humans, this is also gone over in one of the episodes of the show to a lesser degree. One of the results of the Vorlon influence on Earth, and other worlds, is seen when Kosh shows his true form and appears as an Angel to the Humans, and as a similar divine being to the other races influenced by the Vorlons. This was done in order to influence them to follow the Vorlons and their ideology of Order. Those not influenced so did not see a divine being, or angel, such as Molari, who sees nothing.
The writing of Babylon 5 was superb. While at times it hit you over the head with moral proclamations, often it didn't and showed the moral ambiguity of so much of the Babylon 5 universe. It is my favorite Sci Fi show, and I think it always will be.
Nice to see you revisiting Babylon 5. These vids are gonna be much more contemporary, not just because of the reboot starting production next year, but also just by the way of the world these days.
Thanks for going here, it reminds me of a simpler time when producers didn’t confuse special effects and political messaging for plots and character development.
"This is Ambassador Delenn of the Minbari. Babylon 5 is under our protection. Withdraw, .. or be destroyed." [in the White Star!]
"Negative. We have authority here. Do not force us to engage your ship."
"Why not? Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else."
One of the best scenes in any sci-fi
Rest in Peace Mira Furlan. 🙏
@@danielseelye6005
Absolutely.
Best Scene in all sci-fi
@@enterprisedavidcain
Johns future wife.
We'd all like a wife like that 😁
Remember that scene when she came in to the office with John and the doc and she kept on saying the b word..
Or when she guilt Tripped John to come to dinner with guests and grouch?
Best relationship in b5
I miss Mira
Sheridan's capture on Mars is my all time favorite Sci fi scene. the music really makes it and I've never had a reaction like that to any show before. my jaw hit the floor.
One of the main problems i have with 90s sci-fi is they never take these subject serious and treat the fact that humans almost being wiped out by aliens would make this issue almost guaranteed to happen and would even make sense . Treats that hostile reaction as almost unnatural and freaky which it certainly wouldn't be .
I loved B5, in a world of perfect no conflict humans of TNG this was a breath of fresh air, my favorite Sci-fi series. Everything was so complex, there where good guys and bad guys, but the best part was it turned out the forces of light and darkness was not good vs evil, more order vs chaos. Where order was just as wrong as chaos.
Hey Lore. Good to see you stepping away from Trek and doing some B5. Hope to see more in the future
More More More!!! I LOVE Babylon 5. It is so forgotten by the masses. One of my favorite series.
Clark was a part of Home Guard the whole time.
Good to see B5 upgrading to LCARS.
I guess I like how dark B5 was, all that infighting but it’s because the Mimbari came within a breath of killing all the humans
AWESOME! BABYLON 5 CONTENT!
I am so happy now!
Finally getting back to Babylon 5 lore, big fan of your other Babylon 5 videos
“Who am I? I am Susan Ivanova. Commander. Daughter of Andrei and Sofie Ivanov. I am the right hand of vengeance, and the boot that is going to kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth, sweetheart! I am death incarnate, and the last living thing that you are ever going to see. God sent me.”-Ivanova in her most badass speech ever.
babylon 5 is an amazing show. I was skeptical at first but after Sheridan came into the show things went wild
i grew up watching this show with my dad. i love it so much, i would love to see your input on the series like you do with star trek
I am currently watching Babylon 5 it has quickly become one of my favourite shows
Good video Lore 👍 nicely done. Hope to see some more B5 content in the future.
Ayyy a B5 video. I've watched some of your other ones and enjoyed them too. B5 needs more love.
In the earth civil war a lot of soldiers died who were only following orders they were doing what they were told to do and that is truly the saddest part of all of this
One of the few shows to include human civil war in a universe that includes aliens
Loving this Babylon 5 content, I just finished it and it's actually pretty good.
I love Babylon 5. Such wonderful story telling
I'm always happy James when a Babylon 5 video comes up 😁😊👍
Nice timing, just rewatched War Prayer and a Sky Full of Stars last night.
It’s a little terrifying this seems more timely in 2022 than it did when it was released.
*Humans and alien historians who study Earth history* - Uhhh crap. Here we go again!.
*Shadows in the background* - Get the popcorn. This is the good remake!.
I'm currently finishing up season 3 right now. Awesome work you are doing. 😀
I believe this started with the Dilgar invasion, 30 years earlier. In the movie, "In the Beginning...", Londo had a meeting with Earth Force leadership about gaining intel on the Minbari so Earth Force can have the upper hand in their first contact with the Minbari. The conversation was one-sided, and the EA officers displayed their arrogance, claiming that "...if we can handle the Dilgar, we can handle the Minbari'". Of course, that arrogance led to the Earth/Minbari war. Two things that arrogance and hate have in common, is that they are both rooted in ignorance. That's why I believe that the anti-alien sentiment had it's roots in the Dilgar invasion.
At least they were efficient.
Top quality sci-fi which was in many ways also prescient as hell. Much anticipate for reboot
Man, love this show so much
I've just watched the first of those episodes in series one for the the first time in years. What a great series B5 was, time for a re-boot?
The genesis of the civil war started probably earlier, when Clark did his political campaigning before combining forces with Santiago. "Make earth great again", "Earth alliance first", ... Everything the shadows want younger species to think.
I was never a fan of Babylon 5 but maybe it's time I watched it and have it a fair chance 😀
Patience required, but greatly rewarded.
Ah, Babylon 5. A show worth discussing.
Back during the golden years of Sci fi and great story writings
@@alanmike6883 very true. A slow burn for two seasons, then balls to the wall action for 2 more!
@@ronaldmccomb8301
Exactly. First you you got to spend time with the characters so you got to understand their motivations.
E.g. Sinclair had to beat his instincts, to be fair and even handed despite the trauma he suffered during the war.
Delenn trying to make up after the war after her decision almost cost the Extinction of a entire race..
And going back to Sinclair. The guilt he must've had knowing that the war had to happen despite going back 1000 years to become valen to make sure future events played out.
Plus with the main story like the civil war or Londos desire for centauri prime to powerful again and the different side stories like Franklins addiction problems, or Garibaldis drinking problems, they planted the seeds of them and took time to let them play out
@@alanmike6883 very true. All in an overarching story about choosing between good and evil.
@@ronaldmccomb8301
And the Grey area in between
Actually I'd say it goes back to the Dilgar War. The league was getting pounded until Earth swooped in and saved the day, earning the gratitude and respect of virtually all the known alien races.
But when Earth faced annihilation from the Minbari, those same races turned their backs on humankind without hesitation. Some grudgingly understood they were avoiding certain death. Others saw it as the reveal of their true colors, and betrayal is not easily forgiven or forgotten
You don't enter a fight on the losing side and Earth was losing.
The genesis of the Civil War was the Earth-Minbari war itself. The utter destruction and helplessness in the face of the Minbari. The complete abandonment (at least publicly) of all the alien allies they'd had at the time.
Ultimately the anti-alien sentiment in Bablyon 5 was a response to the helplessness and fear engendered in humanity by the Minbari. The fact that the Minbari "surrendered" to the Earth Alliance was no salve either because nobody outside the Minbari knew WHY. And even in the Minbari it was only the highest echelons of power that knew the truth.
I've found it funny that the shadows wre pulling the strings of those idiots.
It's very much an on the nose allegory for the rise of a certain not so friendly Casper cosplayers "family" in the Deep South. B5 is wonderful source of deep reflections of modern and poignant subjects.
Myself I feel that it is deeper than that humanity has always had the we are better than everyone in scifi series at least. And while many of the core races in B-5 felt that way humanity was one of the ones who could back it up. The Centari while just as powerful most of the time played the long game while the Narns either were just as powerful as humanity or were just below but were so quick to fight that it would get them on trouble. While the Manbari were not only stronger than humanity they like the Vorlons or Shadows were well beyond humanity and that was something that humanity couldn't take. Now while humanity survived the war they realized they needed to change and grow stronger and ultimately came in the form of the Shadows which a large part of humanity willingly ran into the arms of.
Sounds like fertile ground to plant the seeds that'd turn into civil war but it's been so long since seen most of this series not personally sure if I'd say this is the Genesis origins of this civil war arc
Why have I never watched this show before!
behold... Brandon's Ministry of Truth
An Earth Minbary War Video would be more interesting imo but then again, there are enough Videos about that B5 event afaik
Love Babylon 5
Please can you do a video on Commander Jeffrey Sinclair?
There was a lot of mirroring of Babylon 5 events in the United States from 2016-2020.
There was more mirroring in the post 9/11 period, so of the names for earth orgs where very similar to the post 9/11 names for security agencies.
Why does this feel more relevant now than it did then?
The needs of the many outway the needs of the few, or the one.
There are those who profit from hate and where there is profit ....
The genesis of what stoked the EA Civil War goes back to PsiCorps being involved in black projects run under the IPX (Interplanetary Expeditions) banner ("Messages From Earth"), such as the uncovering of a Shadow warship @ Syria Planum. Coupled with the fact that agencies like Bureau 13 were active long before Clark's rise to power through assassination (A Spider in the Web), and PsiCorps seeding Dust among the normal human population (Dust To Dust), it's more logical to put the blame at the feet of the Corps.
Remember; Garibaldi's exec (the one who betrays him) points this out before he gets "extradited" back to Earth, openly disdainful of the insinuation that he's part of Homeguard - "There's a new order coming back home, Garibaldi; you can either be part of it, or you can be stepped on."
Further, that exec covered up the death of a security guard named Benson on orders from Knight One (And A Sky Full of Stars), whom - according to writers on the show - was attached to Bureau 13, and - thus - the PsiCorps.
Ultimately, the Gestapo version of Anne McCaffrey's Talents is at the center of about 90% of what culminates in the EA Civil War. All you have to do is loom at the evidence.
I think just the fact that Humans have an incredible ability to hate each other and then other species is all the genesis you need. They just nearly got exterminated by one alien race so that would do it.
Ohhhh B5 videos now? This show so needs a modern reboot. I love rewatching it, but wish someone like Ronald. D. Moore would take it on.
It is actually getting a new series…
@@LoreReloaded what what now? *Frantically Google's* Thanks for that! 👍
@@LoreReloaded Straczynski is back running it. That's even better than I could have hoped for. I thought I read he had a falling out with Hollywood. Cheers for letting me know about that.
I'd rather it not be made than have Ronald D. Moore at the helm.
Remake of Space Above & Beyond is needed to! That show had potential!
Nice
Ignorance breeds mistrust, knowledge breeds hatred.
It was Home Guard not home front
This is the one
The seeds of any war are planted in the soil of the previous war.
yay! I love B5, happy to see you shaking things up a bit..... it was fantastically written to the point that this show completely changed the SciFi genre. It was the first to not just tell stories episodically.
... However, there IS one single moment that pushed/caused all the drama you talked about *SPOILERS* if you haven't watched the show.
-The events of "War Without End". if Sinclair hasn't gone back in time, Minbari souls wouldn't have merged with humans and the Minbari wouldn't have surrendered and would have exterminated our entire species
Suck a GREAT series!
Just unfortunate that they couldn't afford to use practical effects, and had to settle for the cheaper CGI option, which just doesn't hold up.
I guess we're lucky that CGI allowed for a budget that managed to get the show produced AT ALL... However other than just completely redoing all of the SFX and somehow re-inserting the actors into every scene using 'advanced AI Visual Effects tools' (which likely don't exist), the 'outer space' shots are never going to look any better. :(
Earth first!
Bigorty?
This was shortly after the Earth Mimbari War and humanity was nearly wiped out. So, a lot of people were scared. And as a great Jedi master once said. "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."
@@Jawmax It was 10 years after the end of the Earth-Minbari War.
@@lennierofthethirdfaneofchu7286 True, though even after a decade there were still huge gulfs of unknowns between the Minbari and Mankind. Delenn had to talk Babylon 5's defense grid down from making the same mistake that led to the Earth-Minbari War in the first place: namely, that a Minbari War Cruiser with open gun ports is not a threat, but is instead a sign of honesty and respect. Ten years after the end of the war, this was still completely new information to Sinclair and Ivanova.
@@lennierofthethirdfaneofchu7286 Yes, still recent memory. Only the very young won't remember how they were a hair from defeat, and everyone had no idea why the Minbari surrendered.
is it a stretch to say that Babylon 5 is better then DS9 story wise?
Not a stretch at all. B5 was substantially better than DS9 and I'm a ST lifer.
Review Star Trek strange new worlds
Is it still bigotry when you actually are superior?
You do understand that it's a fictional story, right ?
You don’t get contextual criticism.. how very sad for you
@@LoreReloaded 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣.
Maybe because it's just a good story and that's all there is to it. ( binge watching the series right now btw, forgottenhow much fun it was)
@@seanhraba747 good stories are the best for contextual criticism!!
@@LoreReloaded if it floats your boat I suppose.
@@seanhraba747 Contextual criticism has existed for thousands of years.. and, as you say - people enjoy what they enjoy.
Immigration.
OMFG Babylon 5 sucked.
No, no, no, no, no! Babylon 5? Urghhh! Star Trek dude, do Star Trek! Babylon 5 sucks balls. Each to their own but no, just no. 💩🤬