Same here, Warlocks finally have a competetive subclass with a high skill celling, and now everyone else is crying, even if spectral, bottom tree striker are still better for bad players.
Fusion rifles are annoying as hell to play against when they have ridiculous range like Erantial did. I also never want scouts to be buffed greatly because then most pvp will just become everyone sitting in the back of the map with OP scouts plinking you to death from a mile away. When scouts are really good they are a pretty mindless gun. Buff both in PVE though we know bungie has trouble doing that.
Jotuun is a gun that is used by garbage players who need something to aim for them, no other reason for it in the game and I stand by that. That is all
Honestly, I don't see the point of nerfing top tree in PVE. What's the difference between killing trash mobs with grenades and melee rather than using a gun. It's not like it's problematic in end-game content like Well of Radiance was. I'd rather have them add some power fantasy to the other classes than nerf the ones that make you feel awesome (In PVE)
Yeah but we don't want too much power fantasy either. The difference between killing trash mobs with solar grenades and celestial fire rather than a gun is that they are still way more efficient and infinite. They don't need a big nerf, but maybe some slight tweaking.
@@peytonsnyder2421 nothing needs tweaking about it though. in the clip that was him using sunbracers. Sunbracers are one of the most niche exotics in the game. no one in their right mind would actually use them over any other warlock exotic, even if you get to spam a bunch of solar grenades on enemies. everything else about top tree dawnblade is completely fine, at least for pve.
@@peytonsnyder2421 i mean you can literally kill entire rooms of ads with any ikelos/seraph weapon with any warmind mod on. as long as you keep an armour piece from this year you will always have this available. literally the best ad clear in the game by far.
Hey, triggered warlock main here. Nah, jokes aside I kind of get what you're saying Datto but here's the thing: Top-tree dawnblade is literally the ONLY viable option for us warlocks right now in PvP since Bungie slammed nova warp and then bottom tree dawnblade. Sure you could have mild success with stormtrance but the super is incredibly slow (and teleport draaaaains your energy) and good players can avoid it easily. If top tree dawnblade is to be adjusted, then we need other subclasses to get buffed because if not - we're screwed in PvP. I get that you, with mods and sunbracers, can make the class incredibly strong in PvE but that goes for many other builds too, and its not exclusive to warlocks. Anyway, thats my take. Looking forward to mountaintop being out of trials and IB next season! Love u bro, looking forward to you covering Beyond Light.
@@Akunn004 I miss the days of Handheld Supernova. I'd say middle tree arc as a whole is in an ok place, it's definitly one of the mosre synergistic subclasses we have. Bottom Dawn should be getting an indirect buff with the new Warlock exotic but we'll have to see how that goes.
As Jez said regarding mountaintop in one of his recent videos: "Are you on the ground? Consider not being on the ground!" Edit: I am not endorsing the use of mountaintop or defending those that do use it. The comment is a quote that Jez made in his video with the intention as a joke Bungie could delete mountaintop tomorrow and I would celebrate it as a holiday. The game is so much better off without it.
Issue with that, if your in the air you will get snipered, bowed, scout, pulse, or hc. Not to mention other weapons like sidarms, autos and subs. So your best is to just leave how to play around the "ik going to hit your feet" mt user. For example: if your playstyle is up close, learn to play far. If it is far range, keep your distance. Etc etc. Don't get me wrong, mt dose need to go, but it's just other pointers
Currently - Gnawing Hunger Snipers Mountain Top Ace of Spades Keyboard sales are up because of how much sweat is dripping from the PVP players onto theirs, requiring a weekly purchase. All the people commenting about Ace not realizing the follow up with Snipers for range smh.
@@itsliam2113 I’m not saying it’s not unfair, I’m just saying 600 rpms are a problem in general, I realized it’s worded like I don’t think it’s a problem (cause I think it is), but just saying gnawing hunger isn’t enough, it’s the whole archetype cause like I said summoner is better than gnawing but 600s are above everything else in general
Hunters and warlocks have mobility, titans have melee... how many times do you win a 1v1 because of movement and how many do you win because you punched further?
@@Reason7322 knockout really is an issue. Not because of the range, but because it does 160 damage. That's wayy too much damage for a punch you get whenever you break someone's shields. I'd get it if it was tied to frontal assault but since its not it really needs reduction in damage.
No, the main issues! are those damn guns: jotum, first and secondary grenade launchers and sniper rifles. I love sniper rifles but my god.. they are beyond annoying... oh and that 600 rpm auto rifle the.. Naughing hunger I think that's what it's called I hate that damn void weapon xD
Isn’t the movement “cheese” only really a pc issue? On console, yes warlocks are a bit faster, but never zooming around the map at extreme speeds like on pc. This is coming from a titan who doesn’t have a huge issue with icarus dash, moreso just celestial fire spam.
Probably because it is so much harder to pull off on console than it is on a pc enviroment, having to press the correct boton combination to get the full speed boost is such a pain on console that most people don't bother with it. So yeah it is mostly an issue on pc and not so much on console but it can be done, and can be abused on either platform
I mean if you are never in the highest level of play this doesn't really come to mind as often as you think. I too am on console and in trials, survival and even scrims the melee is more of a more of a problem than movement. But, going mach 10, even on console to get away from your striker slam or getting to a sniper lane before your enemy, does pose a pretty unfair advantage. This is coming from a hunter main that is also able to play the other class fairly well.
The sword skating and worldlining removal already killed so many peoples motivation for playing, speedrunning and going fast skillfully is so much fun and I really hope they don't change it again
@@BrentLooyenga i just cant agree d2 vanilla was boring because it was balanced. To ME D2 vanilla was too slow of a game not to mention no special ammo weapons. This sandbox has some horrific bugs, like the damage bug, and the meta is wack. On console i know that 600 autos are all people see, and there some variety on PC but it is still used a lot there. I would’nt say that this is a better meta than d2 vanilla although both were and are not great.
@@sushii8010 Sure, balance doesn't mean boring, I can see how my comment could come across that way, but not what I meant. I do think balance in Destiny will often translate that way, because Destiny is about Space Magic, and it's hard to balance that and still make you feel awesome. I also agree that 600 autos need to get toned down just a tad,. What I AM saying, is I like how they meta changes, it was hand canons, it was 450 auto's, it was erintil, etc. It is never balanced, but at least it changes, causing me to get good at different things, explore different ideas.
The whole point of a sandbox is to have a rotating meta. They intentionally try to cause some lesser used weapons to become a lot more viable while nerfing tip choices so that the meta is constantly shifting. This makes each competitive season a little different from the last and constantly updates top tier choices. It can be kinda overwhelming when every gun is super good or equally bad
How to fix Top Tree dawn: 1. allow only 1 Icarus dash per refresh 2. Reduce damage on melee from 105 (35 each) to 75 (25 each) 3. Allow melee regen to only trigger on melee kills
I'd rather say that top tree dawn seems to outmatch everything else because we warlocks only have that subclass as a viable pvp choice, so we all got the hang of it. Please, even though I love that subclass, I'd sacrifice it to get MORE good choices for pvp
They should reduce the dashes to 1. Made no sense to me as a twilight garrison player that they nerfed the dashes from 2 to 1 and increase cooldown between dashes in d1 only to give it to warlocks for free here in d2 as a part of their neutral game and give them the pre nerfed garrison dash amount and cooldown
"We have seen your commentary on top tree dawnblade and have made the following chages. 1. You only get 1 icarus dash and have to wait 30 seconds for a refresh. 2. we have removed celstial fire and have put in its place the melee burn from middle tree dawnblade. 3. we have nurfed i air accuracy with heat rises unless you use that god awful exotic that keeps you in place for 3 seconds. We have also extended the reach of spectral blade and now lasts 10 seconds longer."
Idk why every top-tree main is out here in the comment section terrified of not having other options if it's nerfed. Nobody wants Bungie to nerf top tree and call it a day, just tune down some of the more out there stuff on top tree and bring other warlock subclasses up to snuff
@@thespookybanana6007 yes Bungie tends to do that, but that's no excuse to not nerf something that is too powerful, heck go back to a video when one eyed mask was still god's gift to titans and look at how many old comments said that "it shouldn't be nerfed because titans have no other good exotics", it got nerfed and other stuff got buffed and now different things have taken it's place And no i don't remember nova warp because i haven't seen it since they nerfed contraverse holds
Happy to hear someone put top tree dawn blade in its place. Coming from someone who hates playing against it, it’s nice to hear my frustrations validated.
For mountaintop i'd just remove blast radius alltogether. Make it into a potato cannon. Fot top tree dawn just make the blast radius on the melee half and have only one charge of icarus dash, so it's basically still the same but you gotta be a bit more clever/precise about ability usage. 600 autos need their range and target aquisition reduced.
@@adamdoolan1267 killings a pretty strong word. They'd still have a usefull dodge, just have to use it cleverly and sparringly and the melee as of now is just outrageous, god said it himself in the video, so toning down the radius and not the damage would make it so you gotta be really precise with it to get the same result (just like with fan of knifes in mid tree gunslinger) SoMeOnE iS sUgGeStInG fIxEs FoR mY cRuTcH oP sUbClAsS wAaAaH Before saying dumb shit try and think. There, i baby proofed my suggestion just for you ;)
@@adamdoolan1267 also all subclasses are viable, it's just that top tree dawn is so annoyingly good compared to the rest that meta hugging scrubs like yourselfs (most likely) go around saying it's "only viable subclass" and that _fixing_ it would "leave warlocks with no pvp subclass". Here's how *I* play instead: _However the fuck i want, buddy._ I run top tree goldey wich has one of if not the most bland and non sinergetic neutral game and a neutered super. I use ace and my crucible sniper exclusivly and i don't give a rat's ass if some retard out there said "spare+felwinter with stompees and mid tree nightsstalker is the only viable option"
They should remove special ammo on spawn and when you kill someone it drops small amount no matter what mods you have on or the mods give negatives like -10 mobility/recovery/resilience
@@willsics7203 Did you play d1 y3? Not a fun time, it was this exact situation. Also, this would obliterate trials. Completely. It would work in qp tho.
Any thoughts on the 12 year long delay between casting tether and it suppressing a super? I get killed through the tether orb by bottom tree strikers entirely too often
They buffed the suppression activation on tether a while ago, but i think it's fated to be a wonky ability because of P2P connection Also it does insta suppress on a direct hit, so there is that
@@kitanat9944 I know, but i mean that it's a property of the ability, as for the actual tether suppress it is, like i said, probably an unfortunate victim of P2P connection
Hard disagree on top tree dawnblade being anything better than decent in PvE. When the gameplay shown is against lost sector mobs that die when you look at them, then it’s going to look insane, but try using it in a GM nightfall or a raid, or even a high tier nightmare hunt. Your melee won’t kill a group of mobs like in the video, and then you’ll quickly get sniped out of the sky. Also as a console player, zipping around the map isn’t something that’s a major problem, at least not that I’ve noticed. Plus, aiming while in the air on console has always come off as more difficult than on pc, but I might be wrong on that. But top tree definitely doesn’t need a nerf in PvE, it’s not viable for much other than playlist strikes and lost sectors like shown the video.
As a console player it is still pretty easy to kill people while in the air with top tree, and so for someone on the ground who doesn’t think to look in the air every gunfight it can be super oppressive
i play on pc and the aiming in the air really isnt a problem in my eyes. you are extremely open to getting shot at when chilling in the air like that. i agree with you with the pve part though. besides in normal content top tree dawnblade is practically useless. doesnt stop me from using it though lol
Top tree dawn is amazing but honestly I don’t have a problem with it other than the fact that it adds a movement mechanic NOTHING else in the game has. spectral on the other hand, that just lasts too long and the range is insane. imo the energy you use when you swipe should be increased
@@Someguy1357 ya but most pvp players are warlocks, they won't complain about their own class when its OP, also a dawn blade will destroy most roaming supers in a 1v1
Spectral blades is on another level of broken, I'd go as far as to say that it's the only broken super in PVP now that bottom-tree striker and Nova warp are nerfed
Honestly if we put that super just a bit more in line, i think it will make a huge difference. When I mean a little, I mean make them just a tad squishier
I am sorry Datto, but movement of top tree dawn movement has incredible skill ceiling and gives an enough reward if you will master it. That is why I dont personally think the dashes themselves need to be touched. The cooldown of the nades, and tracking of the melee lunge should be touched in a mandatory way.
Console player here! Top tree Dawnblade doesn't need an adjustment here because it has such a high skill ceiling that in all my time playing since the update that made it good came out I've only seen 2-3 other players that were actually using it well, and looking at the class stats you can see that Dawnblade players aren't doing too well even now, when they've had tons of time to practice. I've legitimately never been outplayed by someone sky sniping here on console, even in comp, and I rarely even see people use heat rises in general. On PC though from the gameplay I've seen over time it does seem too strong, but I'm sick of things getting nerfed because they're stupid good on one specific platform... If they have to nerf it I'd prefer they nerf/change heat rises since that is one of the main points that it breaks PvP with over on PC, also the speed should probably be adjusted there too, but it had better not ruin the skill tree on console or warlocks will have nothing going for them if top tree Dawnblade becomes trash (I'm talking about specifically in PvP), especially with Hunters getting yet ANOTHER stupid good subclass in Beyond Light.
It's really not op on console. I could see bungie nerfing icarus dash back to a single dash and slowing down the projectile, but all the other aspects of top-tree he mentioned are not problematic at all. The floating thing is GIMMICKY, like Bombadiers on Hunters. Being suspended in the air usually = death unless your opponent isn't paying attention. WTH's with Datto calling for PvE nerfs to top-tree? The ONLY alternative is middle (support) or bottom-tree...which is garbage outside of super.
@@basedlibertyprime maybe just a nerf to celestial fire damage but other than that its fine. The super is short compared to others and the mobility is great but not ridiculous. I have been killed and killed warlocks spamming icarus in the animation also the 2nd dash is shorter than the first one so its not ridiculously OP. Maybe an additional second or 2 for the cool down but its really not that bad lol
Jotunn isnt as good as everyone makes it. I will say it can be a nuisance if it catches you off-guard other besides that it shouldn't be too hard to dodge
Jotunn is like bastion in overwatch, you get killed by it once because you don't know it's in play, then it's still annoying but shouldn't be too hard to deal with
I swear to god every fun subclass in this game gets killed because of PvP. Im so sick and tired of PvP ruining PvE's fun. Seperate the sandboxes or banish shaxx from the fricken tower I dont care anymore
Benfawefwaef fwaefawf [Dekk] I’ve been playing destiny since year 1, pve gets so boring and so repetitive no matter how many build there are it’s repetitive don’t get me wrong I love new content but if I play the same strike multiple times everyday I will go insane, so I play pvp mostly because I find it more fun and interesting.
@@mankdemes2931 It’s the other way around for me. After a few pvp matches it gets boring. The high end pve content like raids and GM nightfalls always keep me entertained though.
Fun to PVE? My man, I don't know what your sense of "fun" is but not having a challenge at all and all being a cake walk isn't "fun" for me PVE is easy and boring and we need a nerf to make it more challenging and fun again, more intriguing.
@@Sohelanthropus Really? Have you played a Master or GM nightfall? That's the only challenging content in this game, since difficulty modifiers aren't a thing for Raids or Gambit.
To quote someone on one of Cammycake’s videos: On console, it’s not because 600rpm autos are overpowered, it’s more like they’re the only viable option, since flinch against hand cannons
Top tree Dawnblade is probably gonna be adjusted in this way: The melee is probably gonna dissipate after a certain amount of meters (like the ball lightning melee), and the energy gain is going to be maybe 1/3 instead of 1/2 in pvp. I hope the dodges stay the same but maybe a longer timer (10 seconds?).
My biggest hope for the future is that exotics get leveled out. I want to be able to use a wide variety of exotics, but because of how strong things like Xeno, Divinity, Eriana, and Izanagi are, I can’t find very many high level activities where I’m not putting myself at a handicap for using a variety of weapons. Most notably primary exotics, I feel like the only way an exotic can be good is by either being super high damage (Izanagi, Xeno, etc.) or by being a special with anti champion intrinsic perks (divinity, Eriana).
When Warlocks finally have some good abilities. EVERYONE complains. That's why Handheld was made unuseable.. There are about 2 good subclasses for pvp for warlocks. And Hunters and Titans have at least 3 or 4 each.
I’d be lying if I said I agree with you regularly. But damn man, all of this was very well said. I don’t think I disagreed with any point. Cheers to the engagement!
Are we also not going to talk about for spec blades that it has the most armor out of the supers, last the longest and my favorite part the light attack spam with 0 punishment at all this is the best roming super in the game
Ye but to get it to last long you have to use an exotic which requires you to be in the action the same can be said for striker Titans at higher levels of play if you are good enough you can shut down any super so roaming supers are less powerful i think spectral neutral game should be needed once again
@@willsics7203 so being able to light attack spam to catch up to any player is ok and losing any mobility or losing any super from it this also goes for arc strider and bottom tree striker. So it ok to constantly spam a button to that's skill right. So this is fair to golden gun users who have lower super time then all supers has no armor and that's ok. I played trials this weekend with my friends last round 2 specs on the enemy team and 2 golden guns me and my friends he was six shooter I was 3 shooter. The first specs is popped we wait until we think the super is gone then my friend pops golden gun he never comes around the corner in spec then I pop mine because someone else came to flank in there specs and guess what he hid around a corner and wait until my super ran out. Then both specs that were still in super btw kill us all so that's fair apparently. In my opinion Holden should have the longest running time until the first shot is fired then the whole bs time can go down
@@willsics7203 also u dont need to waste an exotic slot at all for specs actually all the hunters I see run specs are the usual hunters stompys or wormhusk aka the health rest button that bungo thinks is fair
As a user of spectral, heavy does not 1 shot supers but it has the extremely fast light heavy combo. I would love to see a nerf but I also want better hit detection for the light attack.
@@toddriehle4110 That's your issue, you're only okay at them and the SBMM has been switched off. You can't speak from an educated point of view from any experience of high level pvp against actual players who know what to do and how to destroy you.
I as a warlock main will say top tree dawnblade needs a fix to how momentum works or the distance of the dash but it seems pretty reasonable to want to see it changed
I wouldn't consider these movement options or top tree dawnblade to be a problem. They are fun. I'd rather something fun stay instead of giving it the bat because of PvP like so many other fun things.
If every class could keep up then it'd be fine, but much like titan skating in D1 the icarus dash makes warlocks so much more mobile than other classes to the point of where it's hard to compete
The point being made is Top tree can get to where it wants to go at such a fast paste that no other class or character can do even remotely come close to that.
@@Spike2276 but at the same time, you cannot take cover in the air. you cannot use a rift in the air. being in the air usually just makes you a better target. there is a risk involved, which is why you need to be able to move. now i would probably agree that the momentum conservation could use some tuning, for the class to work as intended there has to be some sort of benefit to being completely exposed. the hunter dodge giving actual I-frames (or what seriously feels like it at times) takes no risk, just tapping a button twice. The game has become slightly more vertical in its playstyle since Top Tree got reworked, and I for one am glad for that. Changing how to approach angles has been an interesting lesson, and one that can only benefit players
Datto : *complains about warlock top tree dawnblade mobility* Me : *HAVE YOU SEEN THAT HUNTERS CAN LITERALLY EXIT THIS PLANE OF EXISTENCE WITH NEW STASIS SUBCLASS ?????*
Seems fair to me, every class gets strong at some point and warlocks have had it for too long so stfu and deal with the fact that the librarians won’t be the top tiers anymore, and have you even seen the titan exotic where they get an over shield? And your complaining about a dodge? That lasts like what, a second?
@@MrResources theyre fine where they are I just feel like certain subclasses of hunter overshadow ones that need buffs because everyone explains away that hunters are op, I love playing 6 shot golden gun without even using my super because I enjoy trapping people with the throwing knife and a tripmine but it needs a buff because the damage is underwhelming if you don’t have on solar plexus (which is going away next season) or ahamkaras spine, which is my main exotic. I don’t like watching people diss hunters because of one or two over powered subclasses when not only do they have their own subclasses that outclass ours but also have exotics that fit different playstyles better
That's what I'm literally thinking. Warlocks have NOTHING good in their arsenal except for this. every fucking time warlocks have something good hunters and titans beg to have us stripped of our abilities. This has been happening since D1.
nobody’s complaining about warlocks having a strong class. i’m a crayon eater at heart and i love it. the only issue in my opinion is that there isn’t a penalty for staying in the air as long as possible and then icarus dashing to get back. i feel like there needs to be some sort of “stamina pool” that you draw from, so you have to be more careful with the amount you’re in the air, but instantly recharges when you hit the ground. maybe an exotic that even lengthens your stamina. idk tho i’m not a dev. and i don’t hate top tre
I really hope they don’t change top tree dawn. Like you said it is one of the most fun if not THE most fun subclasses in the game. I’m not saying it’s not overturned but Bungie is notorious for nerfing things into the ground and I would hate for the subclass to be completely killed off.
I just want the floatiness reduced, either by weakening the ability or reducing the availability of grenades. It's really fun to play as, but no fun at all to play against. Like, make it harder to just stay in the sky gliding around for 3 consecutive gunfights. Everything else can stay.
I disagree with top Dawn needing a nerf. Like maybe the grenade with perfect in air accuracy on everything is a bit much, but besides that it is just as good as say bottom striker or middle night-stalker. It is also Warlock’s only real good PvP subclass besides maybe top stormcaller. If you nerf Top Dawn, at least buff things like bottom voidlock or bottom dawnblade
On the topic of Special Ammo mods, I enjoy them being in the game 'cause I unfortunately had to always deal with never getting more to drop. It was so bad that before they were introduced it was a running joke with my friends, that they'd be "carrying" me because I could only do maybe one DPS cycle and then I just made sure I stayed alive. The one time it was really bad and what started the joke was during Prestige Baths with Merciless being the best DPS option, we did one run of it then spent the next hour continuing to wipe so I could run around to other plates and kill the bathers 'cause they had the best drop chance for heavy. Finally got enough for a full run and we beat it. Then after that drops were completely fine the rest of the raid.
The part about mountaintop is actually so spot-on it's insane. Anything that places emphasis on the skill level of the defending player instead of the one on offense just shouldn't be viable. Special grenade launchers just honestly don't deserve to be viable based on the amount of effort they require and the difficulty of countering them
Tube launchers like Fighting lion and Orewings maul take skill due to their remote detonation. If you hit the ground it’ll just bounce off of it. There’s a reason you see Mountaintop and not Truthteller
@@warv6552 I can confidently say that they don't take that much effort. The ability to do massive damage from primary range without aiming is part of why grenade launchers are too strong. It was a mistake to put them in the special slot, and an even larger mistake to make them a viable option in degenerate loadouts
@@Cepaceous Yes but you have to aim with the other grenade launcher because they don’t detonate on impact so you can’t just shoot the ground like you could with mountaintop. You can easily tell a skilled Fighting lion player vs a non-skilled one.
@@warv6552 yeah they have an actual learning curve but anyone can become as good as anyone else with fighting lion. They aren't inherently skillful weapons as they reward misses with up to 150 damage and enable Quickdraw gimmicks above all else
Actually surprised he didn't mention charged with light mods in this video, or seasonal mods. -congrats on the wedding. Im real happy for you -onlyfans content when?
Cmon man the number one signature quality of Destiny's moment-to-moment gameplay IS the crazy movement abilities. This is the only good AAA game that fully embraces superhero/super-powered fantasy on such a grand scale. Destiny does not need to be turned into another Halo. The movement abilities do not need to be nerfed or heavily tuned. Keep the game unique and exciting.
Bro it 100% needs a little nerf to move speed (and I’m saying for all classes) it I can’t track anybody because they simply press one button it’s way too strong. Things need to be kept fast but rn icarus dash and some other movement things are too strong.
@@samuelstow882 So it needs to be changed because you as an individual player aren't good at tracking people? That's a personal problem dude 😂 I and thousands of others track ppl just fine. Kills and evasiveness in Destiny 2 actually takes some cleverness which is not common in most AAA shooters. Like I said, we don't need another Halo. Keep the game unique.
@@CaptainOhWow95 it’s not just me buddy😂 icarus dash gives too much mobility so it should be tuned not removed same with heat rises. And I can track just fine is the fact that they can move away at the speed of light that is the problem
@@samuelstow882 In your first comment you literally said "I can't track anybody because they simply press one button it's way too strong," so clearly the problem is YOUR tracking ability lol. You have no argument. "Too much mobility" based on what standard? Just your personal opinion lol. I'm done here. ✌🏾
Mountain top is basically a special rocket launcher: I think the top priority things to nerf are the blast radius and velocity. Shave off some velocity and give the blast radius the Darth maul treatment.
Like he said the video was from a PC mouse and keyboard perspective. That being said, mountaintop is very annoying to play against (I'm on xbox), everyone I've talked to hates it. It is not a problem in pve though. Top tree dawnblade really isn't something that enrages me that much, all that crazy stuff datto was talking about is mostly a PC problem, I don't see people doing stuff that crazy in my lobbies. I've been playing against a lot of hunters though, spectral blades is stupid, middle tree arcstaff is stupid, top tree arcstaff is stupid, wormhusk crown is stupid, and Gemini jesters are stupid. Speaking of exotics dunemarchers are pretty good, like really good, like I don't have a reason to use anything else good. Give some other titan exotics some love because it seems like whenever titans get something broken it's never a subclass tree it's an exotic. You can say bottom tree striker was OP but I'm not sure how you can say that when it's one of the easiest supers to shut down imo, good luck trying to shut down arcstaff even if it's not middle tree, or spectral blades even if it's not invisible, the movement is so good it breaks hit registration. I think that's my rant of today.
Instead of massive criticisms towards what you think is should be changed, be constructive and actually offer solutions. Well of Radiance for example is extraordinarily useless if it doesn't heal you enough to be warranted as a super and might as well be a rift. What about the indestructible dome that gives you a weapon damage boost... that's pretty OP too.
Well just needs to heal you more slowly. It's still great as a way to survive, break shields, and boost damage for your whole team with zero downside. Swords need their ammo capacity reduced and Guillotine R2 needs to do less damage in exchange for ease of use. Rockets need their magazine size increased to D1 levels. Fusions need +10 to all stats, and even that might not be enough.
I'm not too mad about auto rifles, I'm just mad that other weapon types are just ignored. When was the last time pulse scout rifles or smgs have been good?
I'm still waiting for misfit to have a fix for the muzzle flash. It dang near causes epileptic seizures. And on a ps4 pro, with a 30 fps limit at the best of times. I tend to only see my enemies for 15 frames a second. Which puts me at a disadvantage. Really need to tone that blue flash down.
If you won't use it in GM nightfalls its not that op, so I don't really think top tree dawnblade needs a rework just because it synergizes better than other subclass trees.
You nailed it with your pvp pain points. If they adjust those things and don't manage to make something else absurdly broken, the pvp sandbox would be looking pretty good, although I disagree about snipers - flinch needs to be reworked to allow you to actually challenge snipers with primaries and not lose 99% of the time.
The big problem for snipers (As a decent PC player who plays Trials most weekends) is that anytime I face a good sniper in a slower paced game mode like Trials, they are nearly uncounterable. Playing at range is too risky with how well many players are able to shoot through flinch, while closing the distance is difficult in areas where you don't have paths that give cover without even mentioning that I've seen sniper who hip fire at point blank for what's essentially a shotgun-melee combo without needing a shotgun (This also doesn't account for a sniper giving up that ground to find a new sniper lane rather than holding their ground). To summarize, any good sniper in game modes like Comp or Trials will dominate the game mode because everything needs to be played around them and how lethal they are.
This is peak TH-camr lol. Dawnblade destroying adds and rinsing Lost Sectors isn't an issue but Datto is obsessed with the idea that this game needs to be way harder, even though its an extremely casual game. And PvP is just rude. Warlocks' options are so shit there compared to everything Hunters and Titans have
I agree with the energy part of top tree dawnblade but the speed is fine to me. How else are you going to counter a hunters insane movement with stompees? top tree Dawnblade probably appears faster with transversives which is what you were using. Heat rising could probs receive a timing nerf but i like the arial capability.
What might be interesting is making "Ammo Scavenger" more of a trade-off. How about less resilience or mobility? That way you could have a dual-special loadout but it would make you a glass cannon essentially. That would be a fun twist to things.
I wouldn't mind balancing out top and bottom tree Dawnblade by moving some of top trees super strong abilities down to bottom tree, the melee is what I'm thinkin since the dodge is kinda integral to floating around
"The entire tree is based around Heat Rises"
_meanwhile me who only uses it for icarus and celestial fire_
Icarus dash is a game changer
Same here, Warlocks finally have a competetive subclass with a high skill celling, and now everyone else is crying, even if spectral, bottom tree striker are still better for bad players.
@@fracmusic8095 They need to make it so you can't be in the air 90% of a crucible game. Other than that it's fine.
Same here bud, same here
I just love it for PvE Sunbracers and icarus
Congrats on the marriage Datto (and Danielle), hopefully the actual wedding party won't need to be delayed again
For destiny
WAIT WHAT
i wonder if danielle will get a rare blue quality ring...
That’s amazing. So happy for them.
@@casualsatanist5808 na mate... the leviathan raid ring....
Destiny 2 sandbox is less of a sandbox and more like the beach on d day
why is this true
@@evidant Cause, casuals
remember in ttk when we didnt get a sandbox update for about 300 days?
cuz i sure fuckin do...
The release of mountaintop was fuckin pearl harbor
@@poggersquirrel583 wym I got it and it's not a problem. Problem is when you can't counter it right
5:33
Datto: "22 mountain top shots btw"
Jesus christ
All I know is that no matter what we want changed I can see scouts and fusions getting another nerf for existing
Fusion rifles deserve nothing.
I’m done
they're gonna try nerfing telesto but then you know
Fusion rifles are annoying as hell to play against when they have ridiculous range like Erantial did. I also never want scouts to be buffed greatly because then most pvp will just become everyone sitting in the back of the map with OP scouts plinking you to death from a mile away. When scouts are really good they are a pretty mindless gun. Buff both in PVE though we know bungie has trouble doing that.
Fusion rifles deserve it like erentil and bastion
"Jotunn is a meme."
*Straightens bow tie.*
Now listen here...
I just finished the Jotunn quest, got tired of getting nuked by that in PvP.
Jotuun is a gun that is used by garbage players who need something to aim for them, no other reason for it in the game and I stand by that. That is all
@@djr3385 well it’s fun to use it I use it sometimes cause it’s fun. Mountaintop is worse thoguh
@@djr3385 they nerfed the shit out of the tracking, its not very strong now
Haha
Honestly, I don't see the point of nerfing top tree in PVE. What's the difference between killing trash mobs with grenades and melee rather than using a gun. It's not like it's problematic in end-game content like Well of Radiance was. I'd rather have them add some power fantasy to the other classes than nerf the ones that make you feel awesome (In PVE)
Yeah but we don't want too much power fantasy either. The difference between killing trash mobs with solar grenades and celestial fire rather than a gun is that they are still way more efficient and infinite. They don't need a big nerf, but maybe some slight tweaking.
@@peytonsnyder2421 nothing needs tweaking about it though. in the clip that was him using sunbracers. Sunbracers are one of the most niche exotics in the game. no one in their right mind would actually use them over any other warlock exotic, even if you get to spam a bunch of solar grenades on enemies. everything else about top tree dawnblade is completely fine, at least for pve.
@@peytonsnyder2421 i mean you can literally kill entire rooms of ads with any ikelos/seraph weapon with any warmind mod on. as long as you keep an armour piece from this year you will always have this available. literally the best ad clear in the game by far.
@@eggplant8214 Fine. Guess I was wrong.
@@Storse True.
Hey, triggered warlock main here. Nah, jokes aside I kind of get what you're saying Datto but here's the thing: Top-tree dawnblade is literally the ONLY viable option for us warlocks right now in PvP since Bungie slammed nova warp and then bottom tree dawnblade. Sure you could have mild success with stormtrance but the super is incredibly slow (and teleport draaaaains your energy) and good players can avoid it easily.
If top tree dawnblade is to be adjusted, then we need other subclasses to get buffed because if not - we're screwed in PvP.
I get that you, with mods and sunbracers, can make the class incredibly strong in PvE but that goes for many other builds too, and its not exclusive to warlocks.
Anyway, thats my take. Looking forward to mountaintop being out of trials and IB next season! Love u bro, looking forward to you covering Beyond Light.
While top tree dawn might need toning back slightly, other Warlock subclasses absolutely need a buff, some of them are really poor at this point.
Yeah the Warlocks need all the help they can get in PvP and taking away top tree dawn will be rough.
No, i'm still mad butthurt from the D1 stormtrance days, so Warlocks can get bent for all i give a shit. (mostly kidding... mostly)
@@G_Rad_Ski if they will tune top tree dawn to the ground, people will stop playing warlocks again, like in yr2
Nova Warp the super is in a bad spot I feel like. Same with bottom Storm, Chaos Reach, and Bottom Dawn.
@@Akunn004 I miss the days of Handheld Supernova. I'd say middle tree arc as a whole is in an ok place, it's definitly one of the mosre synergistic subclasses we have. Bottom Dawn should be getting an indirect buff with the new Warlock exotic but we'll have to see how that goes.
As Jez said regarding mountaintop in one of his recent videos:
"Are you on the ground? Consider not being on the ground!"
Edit: I am not endorsing the use of mountaintop or defending those that do use it. The comment is a quote that Jez made in his video with the intention as a joke
Bungie could delete mountaintop tomorrow and I would celebrate it as a holiday. The game is so much better off without it.
Yes, if only there were character classes who had access to certain advantages or powers by being on the ground
What about if your in the air?
Issue with that, if your in the air you will get snipered, bowed, scout, pulse, or hc.
Not to mention other weapons like sidarms, autos and subs. So your best is to just leave how to play around the "ik going to hit your feet" mt user.
For example: if your playstyle is up close, learn to play far. If it is far range, keep your distance. Etc etc.
Don't get me wrong, mt dose need to go, but it's just other pointers
@@PawDieFur dude I was making a bit of a joke. No need to go too into it
Wise words from the Jez the titan slayer, slayer of all titans.
Currently -
Gnawing Hunger
Snipers
Mountain Top
Ace of Spades
Keyboard sales are up because of how much sweat is dripping from the PVP players onto theirs, requiring a weekly purchase.
All the people commenting about Ace not realizing the follow up with Snipers for range smh.
What the proto Mario plays destiny?!
Ace? What about shotguns
Gnawing hunger isn’t that much of a problem, if you’re gonna say that, say 600 rpms cause gnawing hunger isn’t as good as summoner
@@itsliam2113 I’m not saying it’s not unfair, I’m just saying 600 rpms are a problem in general, I realized it’s worded like I don’t think it’s a problem (cause I think it is), but just saying gnawing hunger isn’t enough, it’s the whole archetype cause like I said summoner is better than gnawing but 600s are above everything else in general
You're like another Justin Y or LittleKingRyan
Datto, the titan main, doesn't mention the broken melee range of bottom tree striker? I wonder why.
I've freaking had it with "one hit kill, fastest melee, fastest CLASS, Titans" in PvP.
Hunters and warlocks have mobility, titans have melee... how many times do you win a 1v1 because of movement and how many do you win because you punched further?
Probably because its not an issue.
@@Reason7322 knockout really is an issue. Not because of the range, but because it does 160 damage. That's wayy too much damage for a punch you get whenever you break someone's shields. I'd get it if it was tied to frontal assault but since its not it really needs reduction in damage.
@@Nibblerr If you break someone’s shield then the extra damage doesn’t matter. What are you even talking about?
“22 mountaintop shots btw” special ammo may need a tune also.
All they need to do is not let u spawn with green power ammo and stop nerfing shit. Make u fight for special every few minutes like d1
@@ZimVader13 no
Yeah little bit. It's not just Mountaintop though, shotties and snipers can be a bit much too. Special ammo economy needs a little adjustment
@@trashboat8334 why? Stop relying on only being able to get kills with your mountaintop or sniper
No, the main issues! are those damn guns: jotum, first and secondary grenade launchers and sniper rifles. I love sniper rifles but my god.. they are beyond annoying... oh and that 600 rpm auto rifle the.. Naughing hunger I think that's what it's called I hate that damn void weapon xD
Isn’t the movement “cheese” only really a pc issue? On console, yes warlocks are a bit faster, but never zooming around the map at extreme speeds like on pc. This is coming from a titan who doesn’t have a huge issue with icarus dash, moreso just celestial fire spam.
Probably because it is so much harder to pull off on console than it is on a pc enviroment, having to press the correct boton combination to get the full speed boost is such a pain on console that most people don't bother with it.
So yeah it is mostly an issue on pc and not so much on console but it can be done, and can be abused on either platform
I mean if you are never in the highest level of play this doesn't really come to mind as often as you think. I too am on console and in trials, survival and even scrims the melee is more of a more of a problem than movement. But, going mach 10, even on console to get away from your striker slam or getting to a sniper lane before your enemy, does pose a pretty unfair advantage. This is coming from a hunter main that is also able to play the other class fairly well.
On console top tree dawn is literally the only competitive option for us warlocks, don’t nerf it pls
@@julcom9394 what do u mean there is top tree stormcaller really good. Literally as good as bottom tree striker which is the best class titans have
@@user-dc9xh2os6h The super is good but the neutral only works on bad players, avoiding arc web is easy.
Congrats on the wedding !!
Optimal Marriage Guide when ?
I could use a guide, since I need help to work on my solo GM flawless marriage speed run.
''never-becouse she is not optimal''🎃
Why two man when you can solo the exotic quest “life”
Ask jez for that one.
@@shadowreaver752 yes lol
5:32
You can hear datto in the background yelling "22 MOUNTAINTOP SHOTS BY THE WAY"
Fun times with this gun let me tell you.
I literally just wrote the same thing in the comments. That’s what I get for not reading the comments first.
Datto's State of How I Hate Warlocks 2020 - Pre-Beyond Light
The sword skating and worldlining removal already killed so many peoples motivation for playing, speedrunning and going fast skillfully is so much fun and I really hope they don't change it again
The meta is like bungies dictionary, everything is in it except for balance.
To be fair, we had balance in D2 vanilla. That was BORING. I’ll take this up and down rollercoaster any day.
@@BrentLooyenga i just cant agree d2 vanilla was boring because it was balanced. To ME D2 vanilla was too slow of a game not to mention no special ammo weapons. This sandbox has some horrific bugs, like the damage bug, and the meta is wack. On console i know that 600 autos are all people see, and there some variety on PC but it is still used a lot there. I would’nt say that this is a better meta than d2 vanilla although both were and are not great.
@@sushii8010 Sure, balance doesn't mean boring, I can see how my comment could come across that way, but not what I meant. I do think balance in Destiny will often translate that way, because Destiny is about Space Magic, and it's hard to balance that and still make you feel awesome. I also agree that 600 autos need to get toned down just a tad,. What I AM saying, is I like how they meta changes, it was hand canons, it was 450 auto's, it was erintil, etc. It is never balanced, but at least it changes, causing me to get good at different things, explore different ideas.
I just hope that 140s will get some love in beyond light
The whole point of a sandbox is to have a rotating meta. They intentionally try to cause some lesser used weapons to become a lot more viable while nerfing tip choices so that the meta is constantly shifting. This makes each competitive season a little different from the last and constantly updates top tier choices. It can be kinda overwhelming when every gun is super good or equally bad
That echo datto voice when he talks about mountaintops learning curve
Very satisfying to see datto talk to the rhythm of Erianas Vow at 19:15
I unironically hug Mountaintop Players to make them blow themselves up.
How to fix Top Tree dawn:
1. allow only 1 Icarus dash per refresh
2. Reduce damage on melee from 105 (35 each) to 75 (25 each)
3. Allow melee regen to only trigger on melee kills
I'd rather say that top tree dawn seems to outmatch everything else because we warlocks only have that subclass as a viable pvp choice, so we all got the hang of it. Please, even though I love that subclass, I'd sacrifice it to get MORE good choices for pvp
They should reduce the dashes to 1. Made no sense to me as a twilight garrison player that they nerfed the dashes from 2 to 1 and increase cooldown between dashes in d1 only to give it to warlocks for free here in d2 as a part of their neutral game and give them the pre nerfed garrison dash amount and cooldown
"We have seen your commentary on top tree dawnblade and have made the following chages. 1. You only get 1 icarus dash and have to wait 30 seconds for a refresh. 2. we have removed celstial fire and have put in its place the melee burn from middle tree dawnblade. 3. we have nurfed i air accuracy with heat rises unless you use that god awful exotic that keeps you in place for 3 seconds. We have also extended the reach of spectral blade and now lasts 10 seconds longer."
Idk why every top-tree main is out here in the comment section terrified of not having other options if it's nerfed. Nobody wants Bungie to nerf top tree and call it a day, just tune down some of the more out there stuff on top tree and bring other warlock subclasses up to snuff
@@Spike2276 It's because it very frequently happens that Bungie will just throw a blanket nerf on everything. Remember Nova Warp?
@@thespookybanana6007 yes Bungie tends to do that, but that's no excuse to not nerf something that is too powerful, heck go back to a video when one eyed mask was still god's gift to titans and look at how many old comments said that "it shouldn't be nerfed because titans have no other good exotics", it got nerfed and other stuff got buffed and now different things have taken it's place
And no i don't remember nova warp because i haven't seen it since they nerfed contraverse holds
.."being sniped in the head from a spot you didn't even know existed." story of my life
Loved the faint “22 Mountaintop shots by the way” lol
Happy to hear someone put top tree dawn blade in its place. Coming from someone who hates playing against it, it’s nice to hear my frustrations validated.
For mountaintop i'd just remove blast radius alltogether. Make it into a potato cannon.
Fot top tree dawn just make the blast radius on the melee half and have only one charge of icarus dash, so it's basically still the same but you gotta be a bit more clever/precise about ability usage.
600 autos need their range and target aquisition reduced.
so you suggest just killing top tree dawn and leave warlocks with no pvp subclass?
@@adamdoolan1267 killings a pretty strong word. They'd still have a usefull dodge, just have to use it cleverly and sparringly and the melee as of now is just outrageous, god said it himself in the video, so toning down the radius and not the damage would make it so you gotta be really precise with it to get the same result (just like with fan of knifes in mid tree gunslinger)
SoMeOnE iS sUgGeStInG fIxEs FoR mY cRuTcH oP sUbClAsS wAaAaH
Before saying dumb shit try and think. There, i baby proofed my suggestion just for you ;)
@@adamdoolan1267 also all subclasses are viable, it's just that top tree dawn is so annoyingly good compared to the rest that meta hugging scrubs like yourselfs (most likely) go around saying it's "only viable subclass" and that _fixing_ it would "leave warlocks with no pvp subclass". Here's how *I* play instead:
_However the fuck i want, buddy._
I run top tree goldey wich has one of if not the most bland and non sinergetic neutral game and a neutered super. I use ace and my crucible sniper exclusivly and i don't give a rat's ass if some retard out there said "spare+felwinter with stompees and mid tree nightsstalker is the only viable option"
With top tree dawn I think removing or nerfing the grenade ability is fair but I fell like warlocks need better other subclasses for pvp
Stormcaller is pretty fun try it out and devour is pretty good if you can win your gunfights
@@willsics7203 Devour suffers greatly without double primary, though. No amount of heath recovery stops a shotgun or a sniper.
@@sebastianturner2458 ye I get what u mean but I don’t believe that’s because shotguns and snipers are too strong it’s because of the ammo economy atm
They should remove special ammo on spawn and when you kill someone it drops small amount no matter what mods you have on or the mods give negatives like -10 mobility/recovery/resilience
@@willsics7203 Did you play d1 y3? Not a fun time, it was this exact situation. Also, this would obliterate trials. Completely. It would work in qp tho.
Any thoughts on the 12 year long delay between casting tether and it suppressing a super? I get killed through the tether orb by bottom tree strikers entirely too often
They buffed the suppression activation on tether a while ago, but i think it's fated to be a wonky ability because of P2P connection
Also it does insta suppress on a direct hit, so there is that
@@Spike2276 imagine getting a direct hit on a bottom tree striker
@@kitanat9944 I know, but i mean that it's a property of the ability, as for the actual tether suppress it is, like i said, probably an unfortunate victim of P2P connection
considering how long it takes to place rift and barrier and even the uneven terrain can cancel it?
@@Spike2276 it definitely does not instantly suppress on direct impact, not a chance
I'm back after the leaks that Mountaintop will be returning. Haha, I can't wait to hear how much Datto loves this. I'm so excited.
"tell me that duration isn't outrageous"
bottom tree hammers, dawnblade, strikers, and shield w/DFP: >.>
Having spectral be buffed in PvE would be nice so it could be an actual option in it instead of the tether/nighthawk lock on
What is it with hunter knife supers being great in PvP and complete shit in PvE
Congrats on the wedding! Hoping for a big sandbox shake up
Hard disagree on top tree dawnblade being anything better than decent in PvE. When the gameplay shown is against lost sector mobs that die when you look at them, then it’s going to look insane, but try using it in a GM nightfall or a raid, or even a high tier nightmare hunt. Your melee won’t kill a group of mobs like in the video, and then you’ll quickly get sniped out of the sky.
Also as a console player, zipping around the map isn’t something that’s a major problem, at least not that I’ve noticed. Plus, aiming while in the air on console has always come off as more difficult than on pc, but I might be wrong on that. But top tree definitely doesn’t need a nerf in PvE, it’s not viable for much other than playlist strikes and lost sectors like shown the video.
As a console player it is still pretty easy to kill people while in the air with top tree, and so for someone on the ground who doesn’t think to look in the air every gunfight it can be super oppressive
i play on pc and the aiming in the air really isnt a problem in my eyes. you are extremely open to getting shot at when chilling in the air like that. i agree with you with the pve part though. besides in normal content top tree dawnblade is practically useless. doesnt stop me from using it though lol
Datto: top tree dawn is worse than spectral blades
Me: I dunno, I got killed three times by the same instance of spectral blade in comp last night
Most PvP youtubers will complain about Spectral before top-tree. Top-tree is good, but it's not oppressive like spectral.
Top tree dawn is amazing but honestly I don’t have a problem with it other than the fact that it adds a movement mechanic NOTHING else in the game has.
spectral on the other hand, that just lasts too long and the range is insane. imo the energy you use when you swipe should be increased
@@Someguy1357 ya but most pvp players are warlocks, they won't complain about their own class when its OP, also a dawn blade will destroy most roaming supers in a 1v1
@@Reidtc im p sure most played class is hunter bro
@@Someguy1357 but spectral does need a nerf, not as much as dawn blade though
Spectral blades is on another level of broken, I'd go as far as to say that it's the only broken super in PVP now that bottom-tree striker and Nova warp are nerfed
As I hunter main I will agree with you. The only complaint is that it had bad hit detection sometimes , but when it does count it's broken
The hit detection on it is pretty trash. That and it can be easily and consistently outran on console.
Sentinel Shields hit detection is still bad also.
Honestly if we put that super just a bit more in line, i think it will make a huge difference. When I mean a little, I mean make them just a tad squishier
@@Akunn004 but what abilities does sentinel really have thought any of the trees. Most of it isn’t good for pvp
I am sorry Datto, but movement of top tree dawn movement has incredible skill ceiling and gives an enough reward if you will master it. That is why I dont personally think the dashes themselves need to be touched. The cooldown of the nades, and tracking of the melee lunge should be touched in a mandatory way.
Console player here! Top tree Dawnblade doesn't need an adjustment here because it has such a high skill ceiling that in all my time playing since the update that made it good came out I've only seen 2-3 other players that were actually using it well, and looking at the class stats you can see that Dawnblade players aren't doing too well even now, when they've had tons of time to practice.
I've legitimately never been outplayed by someone sky sniping here on console, even in comp, and I rarely even see people use heat rises in general. On PC though from the gameplay I've seen over time it does seem too strong, but I'm sick of things getting nerfed because they're stupid good on one specific platform...
If they have to nerf it I'd prefer they nerf/change heat rises since that is one of the main points that it breaks PvP with over on PC, also the speed should probably be adjusted there too, but it had better not ruin the skill tree on console or warlocks will have nothing going for them if top tree Dawnblade becomes trash (I'm talking about specifically in PvP), especially with Hunters getting yet ANOTHER stupid good subclass in Beyond Light.
It needs adjusting on consoles to stfu
@@basedlibertyprime lol keep crying
It's really not op on console. I could see bungie nerfing icarus dash back to a single dash and slowing down the projectile, but all the other aspects of top-tree he mentioned are not problematic at all. The floating thing is GIMMICKY, like Bombadiers on Hunters. Being suspended in the air usually = death unless your opponent isn't paying attention.
WTH's with Datto calling for PvE nerfs to top-tree? The ONLY alternative is middle (support) or bottom-tree...which is garbage outside of super.
@@basedlibertyprime maybe just a nerf to celestial fire damage but other than that its fine. The super is short compared to others and the mobility is great but not ridiculous. I have been killed and killed warlocks spamming icarus in the animation also the 2nd dash is shorter than the first one so its not ridiculously OP. Maybe an additional second or 2 for the cool down but its really not that bad lol
Oh yea! You need to have a lot of skill to celestial fire from ANY rage and hit the target behind cover -_-
Jotunn isnt as good as everyone makes it. I will say it can be a nuisance if it catches you off-guard other besides that it shouldn't be too hard to dodge
Have you heard of my sponsor "cover
😆😅 i shouldn't say it but want ever
Jotunn is like bastion in overwatch, you get killed by it once because you don't know it's in play, then it's still annoying but shouldn't be too hard to deal with
"22 mountaintop shots by the way"
That caught me off guard
I'm a warlock main and had no idea you could do that with top tree dawn blade! That shit was sick.
“Top Tree Dawnblade”
Imaging mentioning that when it’s only uses is for skating/hovering long distance and PvP compare to Middle Tree.
Who even plays Top Tree Dawnblade in any serious content? Sunbracers is pretty much a meme exotic.
I swear to god every fun subclass in this game gets killed because of PvP. Im so sick and tired of PvP ruining PvE's fun. Seperate the sandboxes or banish shaxx from the fricken tower I dont care anymore
Benfawefwaef fwaefawf [Dekk] I’ve been playing destiny since year 1, pve gets so boring and so repetitive no matter how many build there are it’s repetitive don’t get me wrong I love new content but if I play the same strike multiple times everyday I will go insane, so I play pvp mostly because I find it more fun and interesting.
@@mankdemes2931 This is so true. The sandbox has probably never been well-tuned, and the gameplay lack variety... unless you're raiding.
@@mankdemes2931 It’s the other way around for me. After a few pvp matches it gets boring. The high end pve content like raids and GM nightfalls always keep me entertained though.
Any time they add something fun to pve
Datto: Lets tone it back
I find myself disagreeing with Datto almost every time when it comes to balance. Except for the auto loading meta, that was busted lol
I think pve is fine it's fun most fun I've had in d2 in a long time in these past seasons I disagree with him massively
Fun to PVE? My man, I don't know what your sense of "fun" is but not having a challenge at all and all being a cake walk isn't "fun" for me
PVE is easy and boring and we need a nerf to make it more challenging and fun again, more intriguing.
@@Sohelanthropus like d1 at launch
@@Sohelanthropus Really? Have you played a Master or GM nightfall? That's the only challenging content in this game, since difficulty modifiers aren't a thing for Raids or Gambit.
To quote someone on one of Cammycake’s videos:
On console, it’s not because 600rpm autos are overpowered, it’s more like they’re the only viable option, since flinch against hand cannons
When I heard that they are trying to morph d2 back into d1. I got so excited
Why? Honestly uh... PvP past from the April Update of Y2 forward sucked.
13:08 OMFG THANK YOU SOMEBODY FINALLY MENTIONS THE SENTINEL SHIELD MELEE HIT DETECTION
I think Datto mentions it in every video where he talks about sentinel shield, and he's right to do so, that hit detection is actual trash
Top tree Dawnblade is probably gonna be adjusted in this way:
The melee is probably gonna dissipate after a certain amount of meters (like the ball lightning melee), and the energy gain is going to be maybe 1/3 instead of 1/2 in pvp. I hope the dodges stay the same but maybe a longer timer (10 seconds?).
My biggest hope for the future is that exotics get leveled out. I want to be able to use a wide variety of exotics, but because of how strong things like Xeno, Divinity, Eriana, and Izanagi are, I can’t find very many high level activities where I’m not putting myself at a handicap for using a variety of weapons. Most notably primary exotics, I feel like the only way an exotic can be good is by either being super high damage (Izanagi, Xeno, etc.) or by being a special with anti champion intrinsic perks (divinity, Eriana).
When Warlocks finally have some good abilities. EVERYONE complains. That's why Handheld was made unuseable.. There are about 2 good subclasses for pvp for warlocks. And Hunters and Titans have at least 3 or 4 each.
Lol keep crying
Bro what are you talking about handhelds took literally no skill lmao
There’s a difference between good and having literally every top tier tool at your disposal near constantly.
@@basedlibertyprime You are not a Warlock main I see. Would be a shame if the other classes were brought down to Warlock level wouldn't it?
@@spyrothedragon091 Agreed, but now there is no value in that subclass for pvp. The didnt just nurf, they destroyed.
14:44 this is the perfect depiction of snipers. Poor guy, Datto didn't even try to shoot him.
I’d be lying if I said I agree with you regularly. But damn man, all of this was very well said. I don’t think I disagreed with any point. Cheers to the engagement!
Are we also not going to talk about for spec blades that it has the most armor out of the supers, last the longest and my favorite part the light attack spam with 0 punishment at all this is the best roming super in the game
Ye but to get it to last long you have to use an exotic which requires you to be in the action the same can be said for striker Titans at higher levels of play if you are good enough you can shut down any super so roaming supers are less powerful i think spectral neutral game should be needed once again
I mean you gotta let hunters have one good melee roaming super
@@willsics7203 so being able to light attack spam to catch up to any player is ok and losing any mobility or losing any super from it this also goes for arc strider and bottom tree striker. So it ok to constantly spam a button to that's skill right. So this is fair to golden gun users who have lower super time then all supers has no armor and that's ok. I played trials this weekend with my friends last round 2 specs on the enemy team and 2 golden guns me and my friends he was six shooter I was 3 shooter. The first specs is popped we wait until we think the super is gone then my friend pops golden gun he never comes around the corner in spec then I pop mine because someone else came to flank in there specs and guess what he hid around a corner and wait until my super ran out. Then both specs that were still in super btw kill us all so that's fair apparently. In my opinion Holden should have the longest running time until the first shot is fired then the whole bs time can go down
@@willsics7203 also u dont need to waste an exotic slot at all for specs actually all the hunters I see run specs are the usual hunters stompys or wormhusk aka the health rest button that bungo thinks is fair
Is it just my spectral super that chews through energy while using light attacks?
As a user of spectral, heavy does not 1 shot supers but it has the extremely fast light heavy combo. I would love to see a nerf but I also want better hit detection for the light attack.
Nice to see the ala kuhl strat is still used. Armor of light was so good.
If you use MT daily, I hope I never have to interact with you...
Yeah I pretty much instantly bag anybody I kill who was using MT.
Edit:clarity
That gun just needs to go away...
Datto, the advantages Dawnblade has are nothing compared to the BS safe play crutches console hunters have at a high level of pvp.
I agree, Hunter movement and ease of use are annoying as hell and deserve some tuning, Faraamah!
@ItsMalmo I wouldn't say hand cannons suck on console, I'm by no means a great pvp player and I can do okay with hand cannon
@@toddriehle4110 That's your issue, you're only okay at them and the SBMM has been switched off. You can't speak from an educated point of view from any experience of high level pvp against actual players who know what to do and how to destroy you.
Tell jez to upload lol
I respect you for not using mountaintop for pvp before now, you just earned yourself a sub
I as a warlock main will say top tree dawnblade needs a fix to how momentum works or the distance of the dash but it seems pretty reasonable to want to see it changed
I wouldn't consider these movement options or top tree dawnblade to be a problem. They are fun. I'd rather something fun stay instead of giving it the bat because of PvP like so many other fun things.
I'd love for this to be the top comment: 110% agree.
If every class could keep up then it'd be fine, but much like titan skating in D1 the icarus dash makes warlocks so much more mobile than other classes to the point of where it's hard to compete
@Solemn Solace in the ground? Yes. Absolutely. 100%.
In the air? Warlocks are just too fast man, it's not even funny how they can outrun hunters
The point being made is Top tree can get to where it wants to go at such a fast paste that no other class or character can do even remotely come close to that.
@@Spike2276 but at the same time, you cannot take cover in the air. you cannot use a rift in the air. being in the air usually just makes you a better target. there is a risk involved, which is why you need to be able to move. now i would probably agree that the momentum conservation could use some tuning, for the class to work as intended there has to be some sort of benefit to being completely exposed. the hunter dodge giving actual I-frames (or what seriously feels like it at times) takes no risk, just tapping a button twice. The game has become slightly more vertical in its playstyle since Top Tree got reworked, and I for one am glad for that. Changing how to approach angles has been an interesting lesson, and one that can only benefit players
Datto : *complains about warlock top tree dawnblade mobility*
Me : *HAVE YOU SEEN THAT HUNTERS CAN LITERALLY EXIT THIS PLANE OF EXISTENCE WITH NEW STASIS SUBCLASS ?????*
And that's with any class lmao.
Nah that's the exotic. Making it for any class.
Seems fair to me, every class gets strong at some point and warlocks have had it for too long so stfu and deal with the fact that the librarians won’t be the top tiers anymore, and have you even seen the titan exotic where they get an over shield? And your complaining about a dodge? That lasts like what, a second?
@@zachgenereaux7529 Are you saying they deserve a nerf? Or are you saying they are fine where they at? (Referring to Warlocks)
@@MrResources theyre fine where they are I just feel like certain subclasses of hunter overshadow ones that need buffs because everyone explains away that hunters are op, I love playing 6 shot golden gun without even using my super because I enjoy trapping people with the throwing knife and a tripmine but it needs a buff because the damage is underwhelming if you don’t have on solar plexus (which is going away next season) or ahamkaras spine, which is my main exotic. I don’t like watching people diss hunters because of one or two over powered subclasses when not only do they have their own subclasses that outclass ours but also have exotics that fit different playstyles better
Datto: Handcanon spam
Console players: does handcanon even exist
I’m on Console and you’ll never see me use a 600 auto. As a matter of fact HC are my most used PvP weapon.
Every single point in this vid is well reasoned and well explained, i also agree wholly. Congrats on the marriage
I didnt hate your video, you really summed things up and changed my mind on a few things. Good job
Bro top tree dawn is the only good warlock tree cant hunters and titans just stop complaining bro warlocks are unplayable with out it
That's what I'm literally thinking. Warlocks have NOTHING good in their arsenal except for this. every fucking time warlocks have something good hunters and titans beg to have us stripped of our abilities. This has been happening since D1.
top tree storm is still quite strong
Top tree dawn is the only thing keeping warlock relevant. The gall datto has.
nobody’s complaining about warlocks having a strong class. i’m a crayon eater at heart and i love it. the only issue in my opinion is that there isn’t a penalty for staying in the air as long as possible and then icarus dashing to get back. i feel like there needs to be some sort of “stamina pool” that you draw from, so you have to be more careful with the amount you’re in the air, but instantly recharges when you hit the ground. maybe an exotic that even lengthens your stamina.
idk tho i’m not a dev. and i don’t hate top tre
@@whosZazzy the super yes but the tree no its not good
I really hope they don’t change top tree dawn. Like you said it is one of the most fun if not THE most fun subclasses in the game. I’m not saying it’s not overturned but Bungie is notorious for nerfing things into the ground and I would hate for the subclass to be completely killed off.
I just want the floatiness reduced, either by weakening the ability or reducing the availability of grenades. It's really fun to play as, but no fun at all to play against. Like, make it harder to just stay in the sky gliding around for 3 consecutive gunfights. Everything else can stay.
agreed, we finally have a subclass that has a high skill ceiling and now everyone starts complaining...
I disagree with top Dawn needing a nerf. Like maybe the grenade with perfect in air accuracy on everything is a bit much, but besides that it is just as good as say bottom striker or middle night-stalker. It is also Warlock’s only real good PvP subclass besides maybe top stormcaller. If you nerf Top Dawn, at least buff things like bottom voidlock or bottom dawnblade
Spectral blades killed me through a wall yesterday because the skilled hunter right clicked.
I’m just so interested. What sniper is that while talking about autos and top tree dawnblade.
On the topic of Special Ammo mods, I enjoy them being in the game 'cause I unfortunately had to always deal with never getting more to drop. It was so bad that before they were introduced it was a running joke with my friends, that they'd be "carrying" me because I could only do maybe one DPS cycle and then I just made sure I stayed alive. The one time it was really bad and what started the joke was during Prestige Baths with Merciless being the best DPS option, we did one run of it then spent the next hour continuing to wipe so I could run around to other plates and kill the bathers 'cause they had the best drop chance for heavy. Finally got enough for a full run and we beat it. Then after that drops were completely fine the rest of the raid.
The part about mountaintop is actually so spot-on it's insane. Anything that places emphasis on the skill level of the defending player instead of the one on offense just shouldn't be viable. Special grenade launchers just honestly don't deserve to be viable based on the amount of effort they require and the difficulty of countering them
Tube launchers like Fighting lion and Orewings maul take skill due to their remote detonation. If you hit the ground it’ll just bounce off of it. There’s a reason you see Mountaintop and not Truthteller
@@warv6552 I can confidently say that they don't take that much effort. The ability to do massive damage from primary range without aiming is part of why grenade launchers are too strong. It was a mistake to put them in the special slot, and an even larger mistake to make them a viable option in degenerate loadouts
@@Cepaceous Yes but you have to aim with the other grenade launcher because they don’t detonate on impact so you can’t just shoot the ground like you could with mountaintop. You can easily tell a skilled Fighting lion player vs a non-skilled one.
@@warv6552 yeah they have an actual learning curve but anyone can become as good as anyone else with fighting lion. They aren't inherently skillful weapons as they reward misses with up to 150 damage and enable Quickdraw gimmicks above all else
Actually surprised he didn't mention charged with light mods in this video, or seasonal mods.
-congrats on the wedding. Im real happy for you
-onlyfans content when?
Datto's onlyfans is private to Jez
Very solid analysis, very reasonable requests, very good boy. 10/10
That's a great list of weapons that all need adjusting or other weapons brought in line with them.
Cmon man the number one signature quality of Destiny's moment-to-moment gameplay IS the crazy movement abilities. This is the only good AAA game that fully embraces superhero/super-powered fantasy on such a grand scale. Destiny does not need to be turned into another Halo. The movement abilities do not need to be nerfed or heavily tuned. Keep the game unique and exciting.
Bro it 100% needs a little nerf to move speed (and I’m saying for all classes) it I can’t track anybody because they simply press one button it’s way too strong. Things need to be kept fast but rn icarus dash and some other movement things are too strong.
@@samuelstow882 So it needs to be changed because you as an individual player aren't good at tracking people? That's a personal problem dude 😂
I and thousands of others track ppl just fine. Kills and evasiveness in Destiny 2 actually takes some cleverness which is not common in most AAA shooters. Like I said, we don't need another Halo. Keep the game unique.
@@CaptainOhWow95 it’s not just me buddy😂 icarus dash gives too much mobility so it should be tuned not removed same with heat rises. And I can track just fine is the fact that they can move away at the speed of light that is the problem
@@CaptainOhWow95 and the game is unique in every aspect so the needed nerf for top tree won’t change anything😂
@@samuelstow882 In your first comment you literally said "I can't track anybody because they simply press one button it's way too strong," so clearly the problem is YOUR tracking ability lol.
You have no argument. "Too much mobility" based on what standard? Just your personal opinion lol. I'm done here. ✌🏾
Mountain top is basically a special rocket launcher: I think the top priority things to nerf are the blast radius and velocity. Shave off some velocity and give the blast radius the Darth maul treatment.
How about buffing linear fusion rifles please
Like he said the video was from a PC mouse and keyboard perspective. That being said, mountaintop is very annoying to play against (I'm on xbox), everyone I've talked to hates it. It is not a problem in pve though. Top tree dawnblade really isn't something that enrages me that much, all that crazy stuff datto was talking about is mostly a PC problem, I don't see people doing stuff that crazy in my lobbies. I've been playing against a lot of hunters though, spectral blades is stupid, middle tree arcstaff is stupid, top tree arcstaff is stupid, wormhusk crown is stupid, and Gemini jesters are stupid. Speaking of exotics dunemarchers are pretty good, like really good, like I don't have a reason to use anything else good. Give some other titan exotics some love because it seems like whenever titans get something broken it's never a subclass tree it's an exotic. You can say bottom tree striker was OP but I'm not sure how you can say that when it's one of the easiest supers to shut down imo, good luck trying to shut down arcstaff even if it's not middle tree, or spectral blades even if it's not invisible, the movement is so good it breaks hit registration. I think that's my rant of today.
I think mountain top should just be locked from being used in the crucible, cause I know other players would still want to use it in srikes/pve.
Why would they remove the PvP grenade launcher from PvP?
Wouldn't a reduction in blast radius be a way to tune mountaintop, changing the skill floor without changing how it works?
I would love to see Datto talk with Cammy on the current state of the sandbox
If there's ONE scout rifle archetype that deserves a buff, it's the precisions.
So is "spin to win" NOT the play for Falling Guillotine? You were doing a ton of single sword swipes in the video so I'm curious.
Instead of massive criticisms towards what you think is should be changed, be constructive and actually offer solutions. Well of Radiance for example is extraordinarily useless if it doesn't heal you enough to be warranted as a super and might as well be a rift. What about the indestructible dome that gives you a weapon damage boost... that's pretty OP too.
Both are just too good right now. In raids Well just dominants with over healing and bubble with Weapons, Armor, and Blessings is just over the top.
Well just needs to heal you more slowly. It's still great as a way to survive, break shields, and boost damage for your whole team with zero downside. Swords need their ammo capacity reduced and Guillotine R2 needs to do less damage in exchange for ease of use. Rockets need their magazine size increased to D1 levels. Fusions need +10 to all stats, and even that might not be enough.
well, for starters, you can't shoot through the bubble...
The warlocks have a SINGLE competativly viable subclass. Let us have this.
I'm not too mad about auto rifles, I'm just mad that other weapon types are just ignored. When was the last time pulse scout rifles or smgs have been good?
I'm still waiting for misfit to have a fix for the muzzle flash. It dang near causes epileptic seizures. And on a ps4 pro, with a 30 fps limit at the best of times. I tend to only see my enemies for 15 frames a second. Which puts me at a disadvantage. Really need to tone that blue flash down.
If you won't use it in GM nightfalls its not that op, so I don't really think top tree dawnblade needs a rework just because it synergizes better than other subclass trees.
You nailed it with your pvp pain points. If they adjust those things and don't manage to make something else absurdly broken, the pvp sandbox would be looking pretty good, although I disagree about snipers - flinch needs to be reworked to allow you to actually challenge snipers with primaries and not lose 99% of the time.
The big problem for snipers (As a decent PC player who plays Trials most weekends) is that anytime I face a good sniper in a slower paced game mode like Trials, they are nearly uncounterable. Playing at range is too risky with how well many players are able to shoot through flinch, while closing the distance is difficult in areas where you don't have paths that give cover without even mentioning that I've seen sniper who hip fire at point blank for what's essentially a shotgun-melee combo without needing a shotgun (This also doesn't account for a sniper giving up that ground to find a new sniper lane rather than holding their ground). To summarize, any good sniper in game modes like Comp or Trials will dominate the game mode because everything needs to be played around them and how lethal they are.
This is peak TH-camr lol. Dawnblade destroying adds and rinsing Lost Sectors isn't an issue but Datto is obsessed with the idea that this game needs to be way harder, even though its an extremely casual game.
And PvP is just rude. Warlocks' options are so shit there compared to everything Hunters and Titans have
I agree with the energy part of top tree dawnblade but the speed is fine to me. How else are you going to counter a hunters insane movement with stompees? top tree Dawnblade probably appears faster with transversives which is what you were using. Heat rising could probs receive a timing nerf but i like the arial capability.
Perfectly said and fun to watch. Thanks man
16:50 The Garden of Salvation fusion can out-DPS Mountaintop without high-impact reserves
Way too niche due to swords though. Used it on ghalran a few times and it was solid
@@littlebiglsteele4158 Yessir, it’s like a mini Fourth Horseman
Warlocks finally get some good movement options and an actual fun Melee and it's already being called out for nerfs 😔
What might be interesting is making "Ammo Scavenger" more of a trade-off. How about less resilience or mobility? That way you could have a dual-special loadout but it would make you a glass cannon essentially. That would be a fun twist to things.
What the movement really needs is wall-running, slide-hopping, and maybe a new subclass with a grappling hook.
Datto: "I have never used mountaintop in pvp before making this video."
Me: *Press X to Doubt*
He showed his triumph tho
I wouldn't mind balancing out top and bottom tree Dawnblade by moving some of top trees super strong abilities down to bottom tree, the melee is what I'm thinkin since the dodge is kinda integral to floating around