I've been running triangulars for a month now. They seem to bite into dirt and mud well, but are a bit bouncy on the road. I may try octagonal before going to the extreme of a "round" tire.
I wish someone would actually get 2 identical vehicles and put wide 35's on one and narrow 35's on the other and follow each other around some differing terrain
For a daily driver with occasional off-road treks. Light rigs, 4k lbs and less do very well on pizza cutters. 235/85r16 is the preferred tire size in Australia, most of Asia and almost every part of Africa. They don’t win beauty contests in the US market, but in the US most of the people you share the public right of way with based their tire/rim combination based on form over function.
I have mud tires in that exact size on my 93 Suzuki Sidekick, love it! Eats through the amount of mud and snow we get here on Vancouver Island. The only downside I have found is when the snow is so deep that you need surface area to stay on top of it, you're screwed! haha
Wider tires are heavier. A spinning tire is actually a flywheel. It will require stronger brakes to stop the same as a lighter tire. So it'll require more horsepower to get moving and stronger brakes to stop
wider tires tend to "float" since it disperses weight across the contact area. skinny tires bite through the thick stuff to get to solid ground in some cases.
@dundeeecroc I agree until you're in my "back yard" where the ground is black loam and has no "bottom". Skinny tires and you're on the axles so quick. Wide works better here
@@mikeries8549 Generally wider tires are better offroad regardless of what people say "biting to the solid ground", as if that solid ground ever existed in the first place before your pumpkin is a'draggin.
@@zainabe9503 "Generally wider tires are better" yea, till you hit the turn with speed and float off the track. The bet way to think of it is a narrow tire has more max grip vs a wide tire has more max friction. You can add grip to a wide tire (weight, downforce, softer tire, tire design) you can't add friction to a narrow tire. so yes overall a wide tire is better (till you need more grip!)
Years ago I was out hunting with my dad. I was just sitting there watching two trucks navigate back up a snowy embankment. One truck had wider tires, which did not perform near as well as the other guy with narrower tires. This convinced me that since a priority for me in snowy conditions to go taller and narrower, than wider. I'm not much of an offroader, but when I need to get somewhere in snowy conditions, that's my preference.
Super cool you got to see that in person so you could really see the difference between the two! I personally have ran with setups that will handle in the snow just due to us being in Wisconsin!
@@TrailBuilt wider tires equals more contact patch which means more Grit of granite yes the increased with this place is more weight but having more grip is having more grip this is why tank treads do so good. Biggest disadvantage of wider tires is destroying your steering components of your vehicle much quicker and wearing out your ball joints quicker because of increased leverage on the ball joints.
It's important to take into account that a taller narrower tire will have a longer contact patch. A longer but narrower tire can have the same amount square inches of contact patch or even more vs a wider shorter tire depending on the diameters. Also a longer contact patch of the same square inches as a wider one will conform to the trail and around rocks better and it will have better: * Mileage due to less frontal area * More contact area when traversing a rock or hard pack wall to the side of the rig. Longer contact patch is better here. * Taller narrower tire clears the inside suspension parts and the fender and bumper better. * It can be lighter therefore less unsprung weight and less rolling inertia, better braking and better handling.
Why would the tire get shorter because it was wider? Tire size would stay the same, get whatever width you want. So the contact patch would be larger the wider the tire.
@@jutdudebra1939 The tire does not get shorter, the contact patch of the wider tire gets shorter. Contact patch is dependent on weight of the vehicle and psi in the tire... no matter what - it takes X psi (well, air volume seems to play a roll...) to support Y lbs... a narrower tire at X diameter with same psi-on-the-same/weight-rig will have a longer contact patch then a wider tire at X diameter with same psi-on-the-same/weight-rig... contrary to what was said in the video, both narrow and wide tires will have the same contact pressure (at X diameter with same psi-on-the-same/weight-rig)... it's the contact patch "shape" that will differ.
Agreed - Been running 255/80/R17 for years on a Tacoma. Great combo for a lightweight truck. It is a billy goat and has never struggled in the deep sand in Utah or while rock crawling and still has decent road manners. Funny how so many discount them as trash but they work better than the 11.5-wide tires I ran for years previously. Just google some of the old jeeps and even older 1920s cars on crazy skinny tires and the muck they drove through.
Old Jeeps did well on these skinny tires as they were light compared to a lot of modern offroad vehicles. They also had very limited power compared to what is common today. But the really wide tires are much more of a fashion statement rather than practical. A lot of people feel the extra wide tires look more aggressive even if they are not really better from a practical view.
FINALLY, somebody who talks some sense on tire widths! Thank you for the great direction in the video. I just wish it had some math in it. Not enough engineering info for me. This isn't rocket science, people, but it DOES involve some very basic physics. If you are not willing to consider the math, then you are shooting in the dark and I will run circles around your rig with my mere grocery-gitter if the surface is any kind of hard-pack with steep inclines. Last August I did Imogene Pass in Colorado no problem with 235/75R15 (29.0" x 9.3", OEM spec, 20psi, vehicle heavily loaded) -- in the RAIN with el cheapo $68 HT tires (Provider Entrada HT, Discount Tire) that had less than 25% tread remaining. 1st-gen Durango (grocery-gitter), 4WD, rear LSD. Wider tires would have spun on the wet rocks. While I was out there, I got strange looks from people in modified Jeeps... "What the hell are you doing out here with that grocery-gitter??" ...meanwhile they were slipping quite a lot on the wet trail and loose gravel due to their wide tires. I had no slippage whatsoever. My highway psi for heavy loads is 45 psi and I was running about 45% of hwy psi. Typically I run 45-50% of hwy psi for mountainous terrain. 60% if I need extra clearance. My tires are now balding, so I am looking to upgrade to 235/85R16 (31.7" x 9.3"). I prefer 255/85R16, 255/80R17, or 33x10.5R15 (i.e. 265/85R15), but those sizes do not fit safely on the Durango (weak front axle, can't use spare tire cubby) and unfortunately too few manufacturers make those sizes in an AT tire. (Why?? Those are highly useful sizes.) I love the design of the Falken Rubitrek, based upon what I see on their website... Why is it so hard to find the Rubitrek in the USA?? I do not want the AT3/W because it does not have a center stripe. Unfortunately, the Milestar Patagonia MT01 does not come in a 235/85R16. I think the ultimate overlanding tire size for my vehicle weight without a trailer (Gen 1 Durango, 2001), would be 235/85R17 (32.7" x 9.3") -- if it actually fit. Unfortunately, no tire manufacturers seem to be making that size for vehicles that drive on the highway. My second choice would be 255/85R16, but that size only seems to be available in an MT tire -- and from only a few manufacturers.
After watching countless videos of all your recommendations I finally decided on a set of BFG KO2s. 285 75R17 which puts me at 33.9" tall with with a 11.3" footprint. That seems optimal for my daily driver with mild excursions on the weekends. Thanks for all your input, Josh!
@@JeepYotaAdventure ... and another key feature you don't hear 12"+ wide crowd is how these save at the pump! I have a 2007 Ram 2500 with a leveling kit, 2". Mind you most 3/4 & 1 ton trucks sit a bit taller.
K02s are great. I've had them for 2 years never had a problem. I've gone through some deep snow and mud with them and they are great. I've never had a flat either one of the tires had a screw in it and I never even noticed because it didn't go through. The only negative is they are not great when the road turns slushy or icy.
I was just thinking the same thing. Do you remember those surplus ads back in the late 50's -early 60's to buy those DIY crated jeeps ? I was too young to drive, ...but I wish I had bought one, like a future investment or something. Take care, brother.
Yeah you never see big fat wides on any military vehicle. Only instagram vehicles. We all know most people are still going to go for the wide tires because of the look
I have the same on my JK, geared at 4.56. Great both on and off road in the Utah desert and mountains. Wear in the first 10K miles is fantastic. I’d recommend these tires over KO2’s any day.
For snow-wheeling in Iceland we run a Toyota Tacoma, 44x16,5" tires. Only a little less than a 2" bodylift with IFS which has been strengthened along with a 4link air ride in the back. aired with Coil over Fox shocks in the front and bypass Fox shocks in the rear. The aim is to float on top of the snow as much as we can and we routinely run our tire pressure at around 3psi. Weight of the vehicle ready for a weekend away is just below 2,4tons and that is with 260liters of fuel on board. There are rigs here in Iceland designed for snow-wheeling as varied as 33 to 37" Suzuki Jimny to F350's running 54" tires. One F35 is being built for 58"tires. One build is a Chevy Kodiak spliced together with two chevy vans built on top of a MAN truck frame. That beast is running 8 tires all of them 54" in size. All of these trucks are built to be street legal in Iceland but can also traverse glaciers as well.
Roling resistance, especially when aired down is a big consideration typically overlooked from what I've seen. Example: If the contact patch is "X" lbs. per square inch and *identical* between a skinner v. a wide tire, the longer contact patch of the skinny has less rolling resistance and can perform better in sand, etc. As an overlander who travels distance over all types of terrain, I like the performance of the skinny. I'm glad you explained tuning the tire for the vehicle load. This seems often over-looked because everyone just wants the big-fat-tire "look".
The pounds per square inch on the contact patch of a slimmer tire compared to a wider one are not the same. The wider tire has a larger contact patch off the bat, aired down its even more so than the skinny aired down. Plus in sand a slimmer tire with less contact patch/ floatation will dig into the sand more and create a far higher rolling resistance than the wider tire. You are a little backwards on this entire analogy. Skinny tires have their place and it isn’t in sand or mud (unless it’s a tractor tire in mud)
No way is your opinion correct about skinny tires being better in sand. No way! Nobody thinks that. I’m only about 20 minutes away from the Dunes Recreational area.. there’s a lot of fierce competition here, if skinny tires had any advantages here, we might see one. But nope; not a single one, with the exception of a few tourists in their stock pickups (with stock *skinny* tires) thinking that they are weekend warriors but they always get spanked.
@@bighammer587 I believe that wider is better if you have the horsepower but sometimes skinny and long is better for trucks with less horsepower like big old heavy Land Rover with less than 200 horsepower. I think that's why the old debate still stands because they're comparing older vehicles with far less power to newer ones they can easily overcome any drag or whatever you want to call it and just utilize The Wider patch
@@ronaldrrootiii6040 Nope. Not even in that situation. Sorry, but I’m pretty knowledgeable on this. Even if you have a low horsepower vehicle, wide tires are still the only way to go in sand. Those skinny tires will act like pizza cutters in the sand and then you’ll be buried right to the frame. You need the flotation from the fat tires. Incidentally, they should be aired down to around 5-7 pounds for the best performance in sand.
@@bighammer587 okay well I believe you I mean I drive 185 horsepower Land Rover with 285 75 16 and those things are amazing in the sand I've never had a problem down here in Arizona in the summer with really deep sand in the wash. So I'm just wondering do all these guys who say skinny is good just go off Theory? Because I've considered going a tiny bit taller and skinnier with 255 85 16 but in all honesty what I have now works absolutely wonderful when they are aired down. I'm talking mud sand loose gravel washed out ruts really steep climbs like anything I know the Rover does good but what do you think I should stick with what I have or maybe just a tiny bit skinnier? I believe they are like 11.4 wide and the other ones would be 10 wide and .3 taller. Or is that too close of a difference to really matter?
Thank you TBOR for a very informative video. I live in Florida, so my domain features a bunch of sand, mud, steep and sometimes deep ditch/stream fording points. My ranch rig and daily driver is a 2005 Jeep Wrangler 2-door Unlimited. I run 33 x 12.5 R15 BFG KM3s on a 10"wide rim, pressurized to 23-25 PSI for best footprint and ride on the road-which is very smooth. I do not air down unless the rocks get really really craggy, and that's only outside of FL. Airing down is not a factor because the LJ is so light compared to the load range and sidewall width of the tires, that my footprint really does not change. I do not like huge suspension lifts. I installed OME 2.5" coils and shocks to counter the addition of a winch and for carrying cargo or towing. Installed Metal Cloak fenders all the way around for articulation clearance. The rest of the suspension and drive train are stock because I don't need to do anything else, a benefit of the longer wheel base. I keep up with other TJs on 35s and 37s with 4" to 6" inch suspension lifts. Only other mod I'm looking at is cowl air intake kit so I don't choke on water over the hood. Keeping it simple with a low CG.
In Michigan I run a 255/80-17, basically a 33x10 on my 04 Grand Cherokee with a 4" long arm lift. They seem to work best in the woods of where I run with sand, fire trails and cedar swamp muck. Honestly off road it is hard to tell the difference between the previous 285 wide tires I ran and the 255's however on road the 255's are much more responsive to steering and tend to wander less.
What part of MI? I'm up between Traverse city and the bridge. 03 Gx470 with 265/70 R17s, so similar vintage vehicles and perhaps market, the Grand Cherokees were the fancy ones right? I see a lot of Cherokees up here. I think anything with decent tread and moderate clearance will get around ok. Although, I've picky ever seen wide tire guys get stuck, and often in muddy wet sand or just sand. Usually square and skinnys seem to do well.
It’s bad enough you’re telling people you drive a vehicle preferred by lesbians now you’re telling people you’re from Michigan. I’m sorry you are the way you are
@@charliedee9276 nice, mancetucky lol. I'm up in Emmet County near Petoskey and Harbor Springs. Gf is from Bellaire/Torch. That trail system near Kalkaska/Grayling is nice
@@wilurbean Yes it is, I frequent them often. And yes, the Grands are the "fancy" ones lol. I do find the mud wipes off the leather seats pretty easily.
HAVING 4X4 TRUCKS , JP,S, SUV,S ETC 4X4,S SINCE 1974,, I USE A WHEEL WIDTH NO MORE THAN 8 INCH,S & TIRES ABOUT 10" WIDE.. 255 X 80 X 16 /17 IN.WHEELS .. I GOT OVER THE SHOW & NO GO VEHICLES A LONG TIME AGO !! THANK YOU FOR SOME REALLY PRACTICAL VIDEOS ..
Living in the Upper Peninsula I've tried most combinations for the harsh winters/spring & have settled on 35x12.50x17/20 (dependent on season) as a minimum ratio. Currently running 375 55 R20 Atturo TB Boss on my Ram. The powdery snow isn't hardly an issue unless your running slicks, but the heavy wet stuff I prefer a taller wider footprint for flotation (yes even on a heavy vehicle). Some of the best tires to date in heavy wet snow were Super Swamper SXII 35x15.50's but the street quality was about -2 on a scale of 1-10. Looking fwd to see if my Atturo's perform similar this coming winter. Street wise they're acceptable as far as ride, but shine in the off-road territory. Great info and to each their own on what works best for individuals and their driving styles/rig set ups.
My 83' CJ-7 has 7" of lift and 37x12.5"s and it does all right. I had an 2004 4-door chevy tracker with 5' of lift and 9.5" x 31" BFG all terrains and that was an awesome combo, I could push snow with the front bumper and still keep traction. Got to love them BFG all terrains!
as someone who daily drives their off-roading vehicle, 265/70/r17’s have done me great down 90% of trails and been very comfortable at high speeds, little noise, and most of the time fit stock rigs
That's the size I run on my 00 Z71, and my 06 grand Cherokee hemi. I don't get into anything too crazy but here in Tucson they work great in the desert for hunting, and camping trips.
I use wildpeak at3 that size on my gx470. I was about togo bigger but the wife talked me out of it. turns out its the way togo for the weight and performance. friend did 35's and wide and he struggles in more stuff then we do.
My daily driver is a 2003 Ford F150 that drives mostly on city streets and highway back and fourth to work. Then on weekends during fall/winter it gets used for hunting/ice fishing. I drive mostly on picked cornfields, dried/frozen chisel plowed fields, same fields with snow/ice on the paths driven on by land owner and other hunters (Waterflowl/pheasant hunting. In the Winter I drive on frozen lakes that usually have under a foot of snow on top of the ice, lot of the time the snow is packed down a bit, and the most "off roading" I end up doing is at the ramp where it gets chewed up by other drivers. In the winter, I also have to drive to work in snow/ice storms/blizzard conditions. I'm considering a set of pizza cutters for my next set of tires to get an extra inch or so of ground clearance and also be able to dig down into the soild, snow/ice to get more traction. Looking at getting the 235/85r16's...I have the "SX4 off road" package already on my truck, so it comes with a 2" lift right from the factory. Currently have a set of 255/70r16's on that make the wheel wells look sort of empty, lol. I don't like big balloon tires....they look stupid, and are NOT practical in the aforementioned applications....unless I plan on going mudding...which I never would do anyway.
One thing to consider is the availability of tire sizes. 255/80 are not widely available especially now. If something happens you'll be out of a replacement for a long time.
I'm running 285/70R17s on my daily driven 5th Gen 4Runner w/ ~2.5" of lift. A little rubbing on the front bumper and was rubbing on the mud flap at full lock only. So far so good on the trails I've been on. We'll see how it does on sand later this year.
More important even than wide or narrow is tire pressure... A narrow tire with a tall sidewall aired down will have a much longer footprint and more surface area than an aired up wide tire.
2:34 Thank you for making this point so clearly! So many people just assume that bigger is better while ignoring the basic physics of mass over area. There are realistic limits of course, but when it comes to tires, less is literally more.
7.50x16 (235/85r16) bias ply mud tire on stock steele wheels with no lift on my 1973 Land Rover Series 3 lightweight diesel. Running at about 12-15 psi gives me the best rock crawling on a vehicle barely over 2000lbs
Only size I use too on my Landys , great for everyday driving and the limited off roading I do . I used to do a lot of corporate off-road days and used the same size in MT pattern or my all time favourite tyre BFG Trac-edge .
I seriously appreciate this video I've been researching modifications for my Tacoma for almost 7 months now. I learned more useful information from this one single video than I have 7 months of watching other Taco building videos
I have a 2012 Suburban. I run a 30x12.5 tire. It's my daily and I use it on the beach. I'm able to run the beach without having to air down. I still carry the gear I need for adjusting the pressure in case I have an issue. But so far 3 beach/surf fishing seasons with no issues. I run the tires between 35 and 40 psi.
I run 255/75r17 Yoko G003 M/T on my 2021 ZR2 daily driver/trail crawler and find them to be a great balance between off and on road performance, good with road noise, great in all conditions, durable, comfortable, and taller than the stock tire while not requiring any trimming.
I'm running a 2" procomp lift on a Suzuki Jimny with 215/80/15 Tyres, Car weighs about 1100 Kg. I do prefer the 80 profile for the Jimny as when you air down it seems give a better rectangle footprint and because its so light its quite helpful to have the sidewall deform more easily :)
35x10 TSLs on a 94 FZJ80 works great for me. I've ran fat tires, and you're right about the narrow tires having better bite from ground pressure. Great video!
YJ's do not have the strongest brakes. The brakes were barely adequate with the stock tires. Those bigger tires really should have a serious brake upgrade
@@TheBandit7613 I'll remember that when I'm buzzing down the interstate at 80. Oh, I don't drive on the interstate. Or go 80. Or 70. Or 60. Thank's bruh.
I also run 33x10.5R15 on my Taco with stock wheels. I'm running the Grabber X3 Red Letters. I love this tire size, but wish there were more options available at this size.
I’m still trying to decide between 255/75/17 and 275/70/17 on my 2000 Extra cab Tacoma. I’m leaning towards the skinnies because they aren’t much narrower and i know I’ll have an easier time with clearance. My truck isn’t heavy and i want to keep it light, at least for now.
From my experience, most of the off roading i do is towing a 2 axle car carrier trailer over swampy grass that is water filled mud the consistency of cake mix just before it hits the pan underneath the grass as far as you can be bothered to dig. For this on my 60 series landcruiser and 40 series hilux 4wd i run a mud terrain light truck rated 7.50r 16" on the stock split rims. I tried a wider rim with 10.5r 15" tyres and found that it was better when not towing driving over these surfaces (did not break the surface of the grass as easily) but when trying to pull the trailer they didnt have the ability to keep momentum up and i had to be on the governer of the 2H in high 3rd to make progress and i was still barely moving, where with the skinnys i could set the hand throttle to about 2500rpm in low 2 and just plod through it, digging ruts all the way, but achieving a higher rate of travel, the landcruiser weighs 2.3 metric tons with 3/4 of a tank and me in it, the hilux ive not weighed but i assume its about 1600kg or there abouts (3L-T, 4 speed steel case l45 trans, steel tray with sides and no bullbar) it is happy to idle along in low first without a loaded car trailer behind it (technically 850kg trailer and 1300kg car on top exceeds the towing capacity by 950kg) but when loaded i use low 2 and full throttle once the ground speed is up to say 20kmh and can maintain it like that without needing to keep it held flat the whole time once that speed has been reached i tend to modulate the throttle to maintain 3000rpm or so. Hopefully i wont have to do it so often in the future. Going to build a 1 foot deep gravel driveway from the road to my shed/hardstand area. I have no idea why the previous owner thought it ok to build a shed and large gravel hardstand ages from the road without any way to get there 6 months of the year 😂
It's also important to note that wider and/or taller tires add considerably to the stress on all steering components, wheel bearings, and suspension as well as the driveline. To that end, I have a set each of on-road (31x10.50-15) and off-road (33x10.50-15) tires. This also extends the life of the more expensive off-road tires.
Thanks for at great video! Here's a perspective from a countryside driver in Sweden 🙂 For about four years now, I've been driving my old 4800 pound Land Rover Defender Td5 110 on a set of skinny Michelin O/R XZL 7.50R16 tires, measuring 31.8 inches in diameter and 8.4 inches wide (thin!). I use them both on and off the road, as a daily driver on the farm and into town. They perform well on "light off-road" surfaces such as wet grass, dirt roads, forest trails, soft soil, dry and wet snow, as well as on tarmac roads. They're excellent all-around tires for versatile vehicles. You can deflate them significantly to increase traction on very soft terrain. I presume the military selects these tires because of their versatility. However, during the coldest parts of winter, I swap them for studded tires, as that's the only thing that works on ice."
I have the willys edition 4 door JL with the 255/75r17 MTs and honestly love them. I may eventually get the same tire in 33x10.5 but the daily drivability is outstanding. I have also never been stuck in some thick mud or snow. The 255s seem to be better than most MTs in snow
I had 315/70/17, then 315/75/16 before going with 265/75/16 on my '09 Wrangler JKU. I don't like the look near as much, but my Jeep sure does like the change! Gas mileage, handling, road noise, comfort, peppiness all improved dramatically - it was like taking ankle weights off each corner. I don't offroad as much as I'd like to so it's mostly a DD. Function over look at this moment for me.
Been running 33/12.50/15s on my single cab for years, lots of street driving and a lot more offroad use then most would ever do. Only thing I’ve noticed is in mud I don’t seem to do as well as I think a slightly narrower tire would be
Thank you for the confirmation having been picked on for only going 10 1/2 wide!! I've a 2dr JL with 35x10.5 Kenda Klever and a 2.5" lift that's a daily driver that hits the pay-to-play parks at least once a month, and Pennsylvania trails in between that. In addition to the benefits you mentioned for the narrower tire, there's PA law regarding fenders (which, they honestly don't often harass...still), a lighter tire to take on and off, etc. I've been extremely satisfied both on and off road.
I’m running 235/85/16 Duratracs on a Nissan frontier with a 2”lift, extended control arms. They’ve required zero trimming or melting. They’ve been great on the trail riding I do and have performed amazingly even when we’ve taken wrong turns that lead us into more technical terrain as well as on pavement. Though the ride on pavement is definitely stiffer than I would like, it’s a trade off to not worry so much on shale logging roads
02 TJ stock with 235/75R15 9.25W I put my money under the hood and with a B&M shifter. Tires are important, how ever they only perform well if the driver has the power and ability to place the tires correctly. Just my thought, however i am fairly new.
I really like the 285/75r18 is my new favorite size tire. It’s a full 35” tire that’s about 11” wide. Performance is good and they are much easier to fit on a closer to stock rig than the ubiquitous 12.50s. I have them on an ‘11 F150 with a 2” level, all i had to do was pull the mud flaps.
I have a 2001 Jeep xj on 2.5 inch lift with 4.10 gears and a rear lunchbox locker. Stock wheels and 30x9.50 r15 hankook dynapro at2 tires. So far it has gone everywhere I wanted it to on the trail and it’ll do 75 mph down the highway very comfortably. I get about 13 mpg around town and I got 17 mpg doing 80 mph on a 4 hour road trip. I ran the trail from union springs to flagpole knob in Virginia and the Jeep did it with ease, everyone else out there had wranglers with at least 33’s. Also it’s a beast in the snow!
Having wider tires also effects handling amongst other pros and cons not mentioned in detail. Having a wide er tire and/or spacers will widen your track. The pros of that are: you will have more stability and many consider it to be aesthetically pleasing. The cons are: a wider turning radius, more stress on the suspension/axle components, and there is more rotating (unsprung weight.) Quite often this will lead to a rougher on road experience. Wider and taller is not always the answer, but try to convince a jeep club of that and be taken seriously;)
30 x 9.50 R15 (BFG K02's) on my 1968 Jeepster Commando, running a 2" lift. Did great on most of the intermediate trails in Moab, and great manners on the street.
I am running the 9.5-34 16 super swampers on a TJ rubicon with a 4.5” long arm lift. I have been impressed with the traction. If I start to spin, I just back out. It doesn’t have to spin very much to get the axels on the ground. I like this approach much better than the give it hell approach that is used with wide tires. It’s a lot easier on the axels. My next set will be the 35x10 16 swamper I will stick with one of these two sizes.
It cracks me up how it is so commonplace here in the US for people to think that a wider tire is BETTER at most or all things than a narrower tire, which is categorically false. Unless you are constantly driving on hot and loose sand, clay-filled mud, or hardpacked snow, a narrower tire is going to do better than a wider tire every single time. Something else a lot of people don't seem to understand is that your tires actually look a lot bigger when they are narrower. For example, a 35"x10" tire is going to look A LOT bigger than a 35"x12.5" tire. Trimming always makes it look bigger, guys.
are they even true to their size? I have 315-75r16 duratracs that run about 33.75/34. Theyre fine but my 4 door is not super heavy. They kill it in any mud or deeper snow, they just float and spin over. Sadly i should of went with a 17 inch rim really not much for 16 inch rims
2dr JK Rubicon running 316/75r16 with a 3.5” lift. They do very well offroad and on. Currently have BFG K02’s because we really like driving around on snow days. 30psi for pavement and 15psi for rocks.
You're overlooking one thing: lower pressure across a larger contact patch could result in more grip. It depends on the coefficient of friction. You can't tell anything by the pressure on the footprint alone.
I've watched a video comparing skinnier tire vs wider tire contact patches and it shows that (dependent on the tire) skinnier tires can have a larger contact patch when aired down due to the extra psi because the tire sags more, creating a skinnier, but longer patch than the wider tire that may not sag as much due to less psi, creating a wider, but considerably shorter contact patch
I run 255/85b16 104K Maxxis M-8090 Creepy Crawler's on my 1st gen 4runner, stock height suspension with Bilstein shocks and a 1inch bodylift. I run 255/70r18 116Q Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac's on my Discovery 2, with a 2 inch liftkit from Terrafirma. I prefer the more narrow tire they cut trough the mud nicely, they don't rob as much power, better when braking and it also puts less strain on the steeringbox. Wide tires look really good though. My wifes Durango sits on 305/40r22 114W ContiCrossContact UHP, it looks amazing the down sides are heavy on fuel, steering feel is rubish, tires steer the car on bad roads and ruds, tendency to aquaplane and the abs kicks in fast, it does have inmense grip in high speed corners though (as long as it is dry). My wife really likes her car like that and she drives it like a granny, and since she doesn't nag and puts up with me and all my expensive hobby's i don't care about her tire and wheel choices.
Two door JK with 2.5 inch suspension. 35x10.50 RTs and have had good performance on and off road. Sure I miss the cool kid look but I appreciate how much better this width is working.
2011 jku, 2.5" lift, I'm running 295/70/17. It seems to be a "well rounded" size, I live in Alaska so I see pretty much any road surface/condition out there and this size seems to do well in most conditions, unless it's ice above 10 degrees F, then they slide around a bit
Why did it take me so long to find this video so professional and easy to listen too thanks man 🇺🇸🙏 you are years Ahead of every other channels video content very educational and non stimulating
This was a great video. I have been in the auto industry for 45 years and it’s amazing how many people don’t understand about weight and traction. I have seen these ding dongs put wide ass tires on their vechs and crash with the first rain. One of the funniest things I have ever seen was a mud bog race were someone showed up with skinny tractor tires that could dig down to the hard pack and he blew everybody away.😂😂
I run 315/70r17 AT on my JLU 3" lift. It's been a great combo for what I do. Mainly, desert, and rocks. My levelled Sierra has 305/55r20 ATs. Mainly cosmetic but works good off road on the rare occasion that it hits the dirt.
I’m running 315 70 17s (35”) hybrids on my 4 door jeep jk, seems to work pretty well all around. Not too much hydroplaning. No rubbing on turns or off-roading with the 3” lift kit
Tire width doesn't change the size of the contact patch. The tire's air pressure changes the size of the contact patch. This is right in the name of the unit: Pounds per square inch. Change the psi and change the pounds exerted on each square inch of ground. The SHAPE of the contact patch is altered by the width and diameter of the tire. The construction will change the contact patch too, but if we are comparing like to like then this factor shouldn't be too significant. Further to this the cross section volume of the tire is basically the load carrying capacity of the tire (like construction to like construction: E.g. E to E).
Oh good, I'm glad someone else said it instead of me. Pressure is pressure, sidewall stiffness aside. That said, the vehicle weight and sidewall deflection matters too. If it's a heaver vehicle, 10psi will have a larger contact patch than a lighter vehicle. Running wider tires will help reduce sidewall deflection which will give you more ground clearance when aired down. This means that a tire that's too skinny will be harder to turn aired down since the longer contact patch will increase steering torque slightly, but a tire that's too wide will also be harder due to increased scrub radius. I think vehicle weight is the #1 design consideration when building an offroad vehicle. Heavier means more traction, wider tires, heavier axles, more power, etc. That said, a skinny tire will still do better for hydroplaining
You've explained this perfectly! Great job with your TH-cam channel! Andy McKane, Land Rover owner 1964-1993; Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon owner 2012 to present. We outfitted my wife with a 2014 Grand Cherokee Overland diesel. We sold that as, according to my wife, "there have been too many issues with the exhaust gas recirculaton" that required far too many trips to L.H. Miller Jeep in Provo Utah before moving to the Hawaiian Island of Molokai in 2019. You and your channel give A-1 advice from what I've seen so far. Andy McKane, Maunaloa, Hawaii.
My wife and I live in the mountains here in Pa, we run 33x10 on our cclb dually, 33x11 on our half ton rcsb and 30.6 x 10.5 on the our Colorado eclb. We found the skinny tire work best for us especially in the snow. We live on top of a mountain and getting up and down can be unnerving. All three trucks run bfg muds.
Im on team wide. 12.5 is a good standard. I like low ground pressure for where i wheel. Mostly mud. I have been some pretty amazing places on a 285 75 16 back in the day but 33 12.5 and 35 12.5 is a noticeable change off road.
For offroad usage there was a set of 265/75r16 cooper mt-s and for daily and long asphalt trips I started to use a set of 245/75r16 Yokohama g015 at-s. (Disco 2 with 2"lift)
Skinny every time on 4x4 . Better mileage, Move maneuverability on narrow trails and rock climbing ,better traction less hydroplaneing and when aired down do fine in sand and best with studs in snow
Yeah contact patch in the front to back plane is more valuable than the left to right plane due to rolling resistance. Hence, big fat tyres aren't the best
My experience is the wider the tire, the sketchier it is to drive on the road when its raining. They act like skis. Most of us will never use the tires for its intended purpose. I like the Falken AT3w cuz they grab well in the rain. Other tires are like ice skates from my experience. Sadly they dont last long.
Living near the beach, the higher the PSI load of the tire to the surface, the quicker I sink in the sand. For example, my loaded down Power Wagon with 35x12.5 wants to dig into the sand, so I pay close attention to it it sinking. I can feel it digging ruts, so I keep the momentum up a bit and foot in the throttle. My JK with 35x12.5 floats over the top easily and with much less effort. I have found the same with mud. I sunk my PW with both axles locked in a muddy field and had to walk out as there was nothing to winch to. I used the JK to recover it with only limited slip in the rear, and it had not problem with burying itself. At least for me, the wider tires have worked better despite the disadvantages or hydroplaning, weight and rolling resistance. I cannot speak for rock crawling or hard core wheeling though.
I'm running 32x11.5r15 mud claw tires on my 89 ramcharger and they served me really well they have enough traction to drag a fwd car (in park) around while in gravel while of course using 4 low with 2 open diffs.
37x12.5x17 on my JKU Rubicon with about 3.5-4” total lift (between the Falcon 3.3 shocks, 3” lift kit and proper set up), great combo. I see a lot of 35 & 37 x13.5” out there and couldn’t imagine having that much more wide rotating mass and road rut pull from the wider tire. I drive my Jeep (5 hours) to and from Moab often so it has to be happy on the Highway for hours while also able to handle up to 6-8 difficulty trails. I also currently run an AT (Falcon Wildpeak AT3W) instead of a more aggressive MT for that same road compromise. For me it’s been a fantastic set up, if I ran in mud more I’d probably move to an RT tread or maybe one of the moderately meaty MT options.
I bought my Tacoma with some 31” M/T tires on it and it sucked… super loud on the road and the extra weight killed the mileage on the commute. Off-road was great. I switched to a 235 wide 31” tire commonly used on dually trucks. The tires were 23# lighter per tire, quieter, better MPG. Off-road, I haven’t noticed much difference. I did use a 1” spacer to take them to the edge of the wheel well. Looks good and performs better than expected. Love the topic discussed here!
My method is based around the 35x12.50 tire. From there, I add or subtract one inch in width for every two inches of tire diameter (i.e. 34x12.00, 33x11.50, 37x13.50, etc.).
6500lb truck on 37x13.5s. I live in the desert and there is a ton of soft sand, talcum powder like silt, and slick rock thats rough like 80grit sandpaper. Does really well. The skinnier tires here bite too much into the sand and wind up getting stuck more often that the wider tires. Not much mudding going on here, and when it is, it's usually nearly bottomless lake silt mud near the waters edge that even 40s won't save you from.
Interesting topic! I went from a 35x12.50 on one of my trucks (6,500lbs vehicle) to a 36x15.50 tire. On road was way more sketchy, would actually slide adound on dry pavement with the wider tire. Offroad, it performed a lot better in the sloppy mud and really soft sand.
2006 Tacoma crew cab short bed stock suspension , I’m running 265/75/16 grabber x3 for the occasional off road camping trips about 3 times a year & they are perfect for everyday driving as well , however I have 2 sets of wheels & mostly run the 265/70/17 all season tires through the summer. Both are perfect for my needs.
Been doing this for years skinny tires just work have never gotten stuck without something hanging up under the rig so I'm a big fan of taller tires as well
Just like everything else it comes down to the terrain you'll be on. Personally I'm a big fan of skinnier tires, they cut through mud, snow and ice (if there is a hard surface underneath) for better traction. For deep snow, sand, and bottomless mud pits wide tires obviously provide better floatation. There aren't a ton of options for 34"-35" tires that are 10.5 inches wide or narrower though.
I suspected on a light vehicle like a 4Runner, an E-rated sidewall would be more compliant at 255/80 than 285/70 but up until now couldn't find anyone who could put numbers to the decision making. Thanks for this. Love it.
I have an xj w 4.5” lift I’m running 275/70/17. Looking back I wish I had gotten the long arm kit. I just bought a control arm drop kit. That should stop it from riding like a tank. As far as the tires, the on and off-road performance is really good. I’m not running a SYE and I have no driveline vibes.
Daily driver but you also live in Alaska or rural Canada I highly recommend the Kenda klever RT, They are very affordable They have substantial meat on the tire They are lightly syped with pre-made holes for studs They can also come in an E-rating for diesels or 2500s They also have with sizes ranging from 9.5, 10.5 and 12.5 and all things considered they are very quiet tire for how long they last 👍
Kenda Klever RT 35x10.5x17 on a Jeep Gladiator with a 2” Mopar lift. Running factory wheels. Love the set up. Looks old school military in the stance. Handles the snow, sand, and mud in Michigan.
My trail rigs consisted of a couple of OBS Fords and a Jeep xj cherokee. In every case, I found that performance on a variety of different terrains average out best on 235/85 r16. I always bought retread tires that used e-rated casings. It makes for a rougher ride so off-road I usually want to be around 20 psi. But my trucks were always out at slick Southern clay Lake bottoms with lots of hidden prickly hazards. The last thing you want is a flat in the middle of a swamp. So a half ton or lighter vehicle with big thick 1 ton Tire casings just isn't going to get a puncture serious enough to cause a flat unless you hit something at freeway speeds lol. My wider tires did much better over the Sandy Beach because they rode on top, but with the mud, while they had better flotation and less of a chance of high centering, I found myself getting stuck more often from lack of traction. The key thing to remember with skinny off-road tires, is absolutely, positively do not spin your wheels. They will dig straight down and you will get high centered. That being said, I was able to go more places with fewer problems the minute that tire size became my standard.
I think a 255mm wide (10 inches) is the perfect all round width for daily drivers with some weekend off road use. These would be ideal for vehicles such as the Land Rover Defender, Lexus GX460, Jeep Wrangler, Toyota 4Runner, FJ Cruiser, Land Cruiser 70 series and Tacoma. There’s a good variety of options now too - 255/85R16, 255/75R17, 255/80R17 and the newly released 255/85R17.
Also the 35x11.50r17 Nitto Trail Grappler MT is 10.62 on a 7 inch wide wheel or 265/85r17(11.42 on a 9 inch wide wheel and use the .2 of an inch tire width change per .5 inch in wheel width change).
It depends on the weight of the vehicle .. Let's just get ridiculous and say the vehicle is a 2017 F350 Super Duty Diesel with dual rear wheels... The video is way wrong to suggest using GVWR, which is 14,000 Lbs for said truck .. What I posted earlier is correct: use Curb Weight, which is only 7,077 - 7,694 Lbs. As you can see, the video suggests a stupid number to use because it represents a fully loaded to the legal maximum weight, which isn't good for wheeling if you don't want high chances of breaking down from overworking the vehicle. As far as 255 being ideal... definitely depends on the Curb Weight of the vehicle. Ground Pressure is the term that should have been used in the video, representing the PSI placed on the ground. A wider tire can drive in sand with less or no airing down than a narrower tire. It really does boil down to vehicle weight and terrain you expect to handle. I know trails you can't climb without very tall and narrow tires, or you will never reach the hard pack earth underneath the deep soft top layer, and places where the wider the better due to fine blow sand that's worst when extremely dry. 255 only applies to vehicles approximately 4,000-4,500Lbs, and only as an all-around general tire. The carcass of most metric sized tires isn't made to be aired down, that's when you want a 3X x 10 flotation rated tire made to be aired down safely.
The F350 Super Duty dually comes from factory with 245/75R17 tyres so how would a 255mm tyre not be suitable? If the engineers selected a 245mm wide tyre surely they must have determined that to be an ideal size based on the vehicle requirements. Obviously the super single without the dual wheel setup can run a 285mm or wider but a 255mm wide setup would still work well for a dually.
@@ianparsons8894 The 255/85r17 Mickey Thompson Baja Boss AT is 34.6x9.80(245/90r17 is 34.4×9.80) on a 7 inch wide wheel, the same width as a 245/75r17 on a 7 inch wide wheel.
I'm running a 3.5 inch RC lift on Toyota Tacoma SR5 double cab with 0 offset KMCs paired with falkin wildpeak at3 33s. The build is to be highway and adventure camping with the family. Nothing crazy but I love in Wyoming and the trails can be unexpected so hell yea love the build! I did do a cab mount cut and its functional
Well in Europe is illegal to drive a vehicle on public roads with different size tires that what the vehicle is registered with, according to manufacturer spec for that type of vehicle and what sizes are in the vehicle papers.. if police stop at a routine stop & check the driver can get license suspended, a hefty tax but if he is involved in an incident that results in accidents with other vehicles with victims the driver with different wheels sized on it's vehicle will get the full blame and it might even face jail time.. also is important to have the right tires not regarding just size but also to weather : (summer tires are for summer, winter to be used on winter is dangerous to drive in summer with winter tires or in winter with summer tires).. now there is an exception for all-season which works all-year around but must be frequently check for tire thread depth wear (minimum accepted thread depth usage is 4,5 mm bellow that is dangerous for the all-season tires safety grip while in braking specially in rain) also in winter all vehicles must have winter tires and for extreme cold countries like : Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Finland studded tires or chains for tires are mandatory during the winter season..
@@poplaurentiu4148 Europeans prefers women and tires that are tall and slim as opposed to buxom. Americans like 38 double D's on their women.. and their trucks! 😃🤣😅
I have a 1999 Toyota 4Runner with a 3” lift and 285/75r16 bf Goodrich ko2 tires and was pretty impressed with most driving/wheeling situations except they did struggle a little in deep soft sand out on the beach.
Your vehicles' stock tires were the outcome of countless factors by several engineers based on your vehicle. The farther you venture from the original design, the weirder everything gets. With that said, I like slightly taller tires of the same width from the factory.
In mud the thin tyre is best as it cut through silt and isn't going to slip. Fat tyres will float on silt that will make it slip. This guy has it backward. Sand will be better to use a wider tyre.
It's not that cut and dry. The deeper the mud, the better the fat tires are. You actually want that "float". But in thin layers of mud, thinner tires do better. In deep mud, you want the paddle wheel affect with fat tires. Thinner tires will also cut down through the mud easier, which can be bad for clearance. There really isn't a "one tire" does all best. It's literally what best for personal your environment.
@@clark8712 If the mud is so deep a thinner tyre cant cut to the harder ground then you will be stuck no matter what tyre you have and need to winch out or be pulled. The way to get the foot print larger is to let out air down to around 12 or 13 PSI .. This makes the foot print flatter and more important longer giving it a better grip again. It is all about knowing your rig and how to drive also. I have many years of Overlanding through many countries behind me. The tyre that works best for all environments on my Defender 110 is the BFG AT 255 75 16 .. If you want a real good working combo then use AT on the front with the MT or the rear. This give far better road use to stop understeer and better stopping power on tarmac as the AT grips the road better in the wet. The MT give a great bite and push in the sloppy stuff after the AT has cut the path in front. You are not likely to get the backend out on an old D110 in the wet on the road so it works very well. This is a good tyre mix I use. As long as the tyres are the same height on a 4X4 you can mix them around and make it very cleaver .. If you are cleaver at sussing it out that is.. But at the end of the day, it all depends on the driver and what the purpose is for being in beeper mud than your axles can clear. it is nice to see people trying out new things and asking the questions and getting other opinions.
@@traylorjbc I'd never air down for deep mud. Clearance is king, not the foot print. Maybe air'd down a little just for general offroad softness but not to get a foot print. Not to mention the way better chance off popping a bead with low pressure. Even double beadlocks leak mudding. I agree with you on everything but deep mud... it just doesn't work that way. In deep mud it's all about momentum, clearance, floatation effect and paddle effect. You're never gonna get down deep enough for harder surface traction to matter. Overlanding is not even close to the same as mud bogging.
I just jumped from a 285 /70/ 17 to a 315/70/17, I went with the Goodyear territory mt ( tires that come on the bronco ) I love the difference in ride. And the look of those tires .Had death wobble and replaced tie rods, ball joints and upper n lower control arms cause I couldn’t find a bad link to cause it. Tires. It was my old nittos . I love how much better my jk rolls down the road now.
Daily driving a 2017 Jeep Wrangler JK 2-door. 2.5" lift on some 35x12.50R17 mudders wrapped on some 17x9 high off-set wheels. I live off a dirt road deep in the "boonies" of SoCal and we often get stuck in the house due to the dirt turning to mud. Work also takes me down some rough roads where the added thickness of load-range e tires helps prevent punctures (company doesn't supply work vehicles but covers gas charges on road calls) Haven't really had any issues with the 12.5 wide tires on the street other than just being loud.
I find the black and round types work best for me.
they have a good track record
I've been running triangulars for a month now. They seem to bite into dirt and mud well, but are a bit bouncy on the road. I may try octagonal before going to the extreme of a "round" tire.
That’s a dad joke in a half😂
I like the round ones that are black on the tread but white on the side.
Pshaw... get with the times old man!
I wish someone would actually get 2 identical vehicles and put wide 35's on one and narrow 35's on the other and follow each other around some differing terrain
th-cam.com/video/6wAJAOxh8LE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=veS6_88ChyGjr8cK
I forget the TH-camrs name, but it has been done. He did a full comparison alongside the math, showing the percentages on the contact points.
Tinkerers Adventure is the chanel.
@@stuarthaynes4245 thank you, I'll check it out.
@@stuarthaynes4245 his is terrible... he measures contact patch on flat concrete lmao
For a daily driver with occasional off-road treks. Light rigs, 4k lbs and less do very well on pizza cutters. 235/85r16 is the preferred tire size in Australia, most of Asia and almost every part of Africa. They don’t win beauty contests in the US market, but in the US most of the people you share the public right of way with based their tire/rim combination based on form over function.
YES, great points! And that size is easy to replace if something bad happens.
Definitely not the case in Australia lol
I have mud tires in that exact size on my 93 Suzuki Sidekick, love it! Eats through the amount of mud and snow we get here on Vancouver Island. The only downside I have found is when the snow is so deep that you need surface area to stay on top of it, you're screwed! haha
... ran those on my '16 Taco all over Co/Ut. ...
Shame....
The bug suv's are fun.
I'm halfway through building an old escalade.
That's a car tire size here in the states.
Running 255s in my 5thgen 4runner. Seems to be a good width, I never cared for the extremely wide tires some people gravitate to.
Same. 255/80s they’re great.
@@electricstartclint 255/85r16 even better ☺️
@@JSJensen can't run 16s on a 5th gen. brakes are too big
is the handling more lighter?
255/85/17 Micky Thompson 34.6
Wider tires are heavier. A spinning tire is actually a flywheel. It will require stronger brakes to stop the same as a lighter tire. So it'll require more horsepower to get moving and stronger brakes to stop
Unsprung weight 😊
wider tires tend to "float" since it disperses weight across the contact area. skinny tires bite through the thick stuff to get to solid ground in some cases.
@dundeeecroc I agree until you're in my "back yard" where the ground is black loam and has no "bottom".
Skinny tires and you're on the axles so quick.
Wide works better here
@@mikeries8549 Generally wider tires are better offroad regardless of what people say "biting to the solid ground", as if that solid ground ever existed in the first place before your pumpkin is a'draggin.
@@zainabe9503 "Generally wider tires are better" yea, till you hit the turn with speed and float off the track. The bet way to think of it is a narrow tire has more max grip vs a wide tire has more max friction. You can add grip to a wide tire (weight, downforce, softer tire, tire design) you can't add friction to a narrow tire. so yes overall a wide tire is better (till you need more grip!)
Years ago I was out hunting with my dad. I was just sitting there watching two trucks navigate back up a snowy embankment. One truck had wider tires, which did not perform near as well as the other guy with narrower tires. This convinced me that since a priority for me in snowy conditions to go taller and narrower, than wider. I'm not much of an offroader, but when I need to get somewhere in snowy conditions, that's my preference.
Super cool you got to see that in person so you could really see the difference between the two! I personally have ran with setups that will handle in the snow just due to us being in Wisconsin!
@@TrailBuilt wait til he sees the tires they use on rally cars for snow ,they look like motorcycle tires 😄
@@TrailBuilt wider tires equals more contact patch which means more Grit of granite yes the increased with this place is more weight but having more grip is having more grip this is why tank treads do so good. Biggest disadvantage of wider tires is destroying your steering components of your vehicle much quicker and wearing out your ball joints quicker because of increased leverage on the ball joints.
@@TrailBuilt
At 4:07 Holy!..... look at those inner C's. What are those? I want.
I read that as “I was out hunting my Dad”
It's important to take into account that a taller narrower tire will have a longer contact patch. A longer but narrower tire can have the same amount square inches of contact patch or even more vs a wider shorter tire depending on the diameters.
Also a longer contact patch of the same square inches as a wider one will conform to the trail and around rocks better and it will have better:
* Mileage due to less frontal area
* More contact area when traversing a rock or hard pack wall to the side of the rig. Longer contact patch is better here.
* Taller narrower tire clears the inside suspension parts and the fender and bumper better.
* It can be lighter therefore less unsprung weight and less rolling inertia, better braking and better handling.
True true true true true and true.
Yeah... The physics teacher and me did a eye roll at this video
Why would the tire get shorter because it was wider? Tire size would stay the same, get whatever width you want. So the contact patch would be larger the wider the tire.
@@jutdudebra1939 The tire does not get shorter, the contact patch of the wider tire gets shorter. Contact patch is dependent on weight of the vehicle and psi in the tire... no matter what - it takes X psi (well, air volume seems to play a roll...) to support Y lbs... a narrower tire at X diameter with same psi-on-the-same/weight-rig will have a longer contact patch then a wider tire at X diameter with same psi-on-the-same/weight-rig... contrary to what was said in the video, both narrow and wide tires will have the same contact pressure (at X diameter with same psi-on-the-same/weight-rig)... it's the contact patch "shape" that will differ.
Agreed - Been running 255/80/R17 for years on a Tacoma. Great combo for a lightweight truck. It is a billy goat and has never struggled in the deep sand in Utah or while rock crawling and still has decent road manners. Funny how so many discount them as trash but they work better than the 11.5-wide tires I ran for years previously. Just google some of the old jeeps and even older 1920s cars on crazy skinny tires and the muck they drove through.
Old Jeeps did well on these skinny tires as they were light compared to a lot of modern offroad vehicles. They also had very limited power compared to what is common today. But the really wide tires are much more of a fashion statement rather than practical. A lot of people feel the extra wide tires look more aggressive even if they are not really better from a practical view.
Yeah really, have you ever seen old footage of the model T,s going through everything on little bicycle tires.
FINALLY, somebody who talks some sense on tire widths! Thank you for the great direction in the video. I just wish it had some math in it. Not enough engineering info for me.
This isn't rocket science, people, but it DOES involve some very basic physics. If you are not willing to consider the math, then you are shooting in the dark and I will run circles around your rig with my mere grocery-gitter if the surface is any kind of hard-pack with steep inclines.
Last August I did Imogene Pass in Colorado no problem with 235/75R15 (29.0" x 9.3", OEM spec, 20psi, vehicle heavily loaded) -- in the RAIN with el cheapo $68 HT tires (Provider Entrada HT, Discount Tire) that had less than 25% tread remaining. 1st-gen Durango (grocery-gitter), 4WD, rear LSD. Wider tires would have spun on the wet rocks. While I was out there, I got strange looks from people in modified Jeeps... "What the hell are you doing out here with that grocery-gitter??" ...meanwhile they were slipping quite a lot on the wet trail and loose gravel due to their wide tires. I had no slippage whatsoever. My highway psi for heavy loads is 45 psi and I was running about 45% of hwy psi. Typically I run 45-50% of hwy psi for mountainous terrain. 60% if I need extra clearance.
My tires are now balding, so I am looking to upgrade to 235/85R16 (31.7" x 9.3"). I prefer 255/85R16, 255/80R17, or 33x10.5R15 (i.e. 265/85R15), but those sizes do not fit safely on the Durango (weak front axle, can't use spare tire cubby) and unfortunately too few manufacturers make those sizes in an AT tire. (Why?? Those are highly useful sizes.) I love the design of the Falken Rubitrek, based upon what I see on their website... Why is it so hard to find the Rubitrek in the USA?? I do not want the AT3/W because it does not have a center stripe. Unfortunately, the Milestar Patagonia MT01 does not come in a 235/85R16.
I think the ultimate overlanding tire size for my vehicle weight without a trailer (Gen 1 Durango, 2001), would be 235/85R17 (32.7" x 9.3") -- if it actually fit. Unfortunately, no tire manufacturers seem to be making that size for vehicles that drive on the highway. My second choice would be 255/85R16, but that size only seems to be available in an MT tire -- and from only a few manufacturers.
Thank you for the feedback!
I just was looking into this last week
After watching countless videos of all your recommendations I finally decided on a set of BFG KO2s. 285 75R17 which puts me at 33.9" tall with with a 11.3" footprint. That seems optimal for my daily driver with mild excursions on the weekends. Thanks for all your input, Josh!
@@JeepYotaAdventure ... and another key feature you don't hear 12"+ wide crowd is how these save at the pump! I have a 2007 Ram 2500 with a leveling kit, 2". Mind you most 3/4 & 1 ton trucks sit a bit taller.
@@JeepYotaAdventure Exactly! Save $$$ too! 12.5" wide vs 11.2" wide, but aired down is the difference. Most look for clearance.
Glad we could help with picking out a new set of tires!
K02s are great. I've had them for 2 years never had a problem. I've gone through some deep snow and mud with them and they are great. I've never had a flat either one of the tires had a screw in it and I never even noticed because it didn't go through. The only negative is they are not great when the road turns slushy or icy.
Running 285 75 17 Toyo At3 on a Bronco and it is the best tire option for look a d overall performance
Military Jeeps (Willis) used narrow tires. Good enough for me !
I was just thinking the same thing. Do you remember those surplus ads back in the late 50's -early 60's to buy those DIY crated jeeps ? I was too young to drive, ...but I wish I had bought one, like a future investment or something. Take care, brother.
Yeah you never see big fat wides on any military vehicle. Only instagram vehicles. We all know most people are still going to go for the wide tires because of the look
I'm running 35x10.5-17 Kenda Klever RTs on my JT. This combo has worked out really well. Off-road and on road. Even better on ice and snow.
Same here on my JL - best part was I was leaning toward Kenda anyway, and they were the only ones I could find in 10.5, so decision kinda made for me
I have the same on my JK, geared at 4.56. Great both on and off road in the Utah desert and mountains. Wear in the first 10K miles is fantastic. I’d recommend these tires over KO2’s any day.
For snow-wheeling in Iceland we run a Toyota Tacoma, 44x16,5" tires. Only a little less than a 2" bodylift with IFS which has been strengthened along with a 4link air ride in the back. aired with Coil over Fox shocks in the front and bypass Fox shocks in the rear.
The aim is to float on top of the snow as much as we can and we routinely run our tire pressure at around 3psi.
Weight of the vehicle ready for a weekend away is just below 2,4tons and that is with 260liters of fuel on board.
There are rigs here in Iceland designed for snow-wheeling as varied as 33 to 37" Suzuki Jimny to F350's running 54" tires. One F35 is being built for 58"tires. One build is a Chevy Kodiak spliced together with two chevy vans built on top of a MAN truck frame. That beast is running 8 tires all of them 54" in size.
All of these trucks are built to be street legal in Iceland but can also traverse glaciers as well.
Roling resistance, especially when aired down is a big consideration typically overlooked from what I've seen. Example: If the contact patch is "X" lbs. per square inch and *identical* between a skinner v. a wide tire, the longer contact patch of the skinny has less rolling resistance and can perform better in sand, etc. As an overlander who travels distance over all types of terrain, I like the performance of the skinny. I'm glad you explained tuning the tire for the vehicle load. This seems often over-looked because everyone just wants the big-fat-tire "look".
The pounds per square inch on the contact patch of a slimmer tire compared to a wider one are not the same. The wider tire has a larger contact patch off the bat, aired down its even more so than the skinny aired down. Plus in sand a slimmer tire with less contact patch/ floatation will dig into the sand more and create a far higher rolling resistance than the wider tire. You are a little backwards on this entire analogy. Skinny tires have their place and it isn’t in sand or mud (unless it’s a tractor tire in mud)
No way is your opinion correct about skinny tires being better in sand. No way! Nobody thinks that. I’m only about 20 minutes away from the Dunes Recreational area.. there’s a lot of fierce competition here, if skinny tires had any advantages here, we might see one. But nope; not a single one, with the exception of a few tourists in their stock pickups (with stock *skinny* tires) thinking that they are weekend warriors but they always get spanked.
@@bighammer587 I believe that wider is better if you have the horsepower but sometimes skinny and long is better for trucks with less horsepower like big old heavy Land Rover with less than 200 horsepower. I think that's why the old debate still stands because they're comparing older vehicles with far less power to newer ones they can easily overcome any drag or whatever you want to call it and just utilize The Wider patch
@@ronaldrrootiii6040 Nope. Not even in that situation. Sorry, but I’m pretty knowledgeable on this. Even if you have a low horsepower vehicle, wide tires are still the only way to go in sand. Those skinny tires will act like pizza cutters in the sand and then you’ll be buried right to the frame. You need the flotation from the fat tires. Incidentally, they should be aired down to around 5-7 pounds for the best performance in sand.
@@bighammer587 okay well I believe you I mean I drive 185 horsepower Land Rover with 285 75 16 and those things are amazing in the sand I've never had a problem down here in Arizona in the summer with really deep sand in the wash. So I'm just wondering do all these guys who say skinny is good just go off Theory? Because I've considered going a tiny bit taller and skinnier with 255 85 16 but in all honesty what I have now works absolutely wonderful when they are aired down. I'm talking mud sand loose gravel washed out ruts really steep climbs like anything I know the Rover does good but what do you think I should stick with what I have or maybe just a tiny bit skinnier? I believe they are like 11.4 wide and the other ones would be 10 wide and .3 taller. Or is that too close of a difference to really matter?
Thank you TBOR for a very informative video. I live in Florida, so my domain features a bunch of sand, mud, steep and sometimes deep ditch/stream fording points. My ranch rig and daily driver is a 2005 Jeep Wrangler 2-door Unlimited. I run 33 x 12.5 R15 BFG KM3s on a 10"wide rim, pressurized to 23-25 PSI for best footprint and ride on the road-which is very smooth. I do not air down unless the rocks get really really craggy, and that's only outside of FL. Airing down is not a factor because the LJ is so light compared to the load range and sidewall width of the tires, that my footprint really does not change.
I do not like huge suspension lifts. I installed OME 2.5" coils and shocks to counter the addition of a winch and for carrying cargo or towing. Installed Metal Cloak fenders all the way around for articulation clearance. The rest of the suspension and drive train are stock because I don't need to do anything else, a benefit of the longer wheel base. I keep up with other TJs on 35s and 37s with 4" to 6" inch suspension lifts. Only other mod I'm looking at is cowl air intake kit so I don't choke on water over the hood. Keeping it simple with a low CG.
In Michigan I run a 255/80-17, basically a 33x10 on my 04 Grand Cherokee with a 4" long arm lift. They seem to work best in the woods of where I run with sand, fire trails and cedar swamp muck. Honestly off road it is hard to tell the difference between the previous 285 wide tires I ran and the 255's however on road the 255's are much more responsive to steering and tend to wander less.
What part of MI?
I'm up between Traverse city and the bridge. 03 Gx470 with 265/70 R17s, so similar vintage vehicles and perhaps market, the Grand Cherokees were the fancy ones right? I see a lot of Cherokees up here.
I think anything with decent tread and moderate clearance will get around ok. Although, I've picky ever seen wide tire guys get stuck, and often in muddy wet sand or just sand. Usually square and skinnys seem to do well.
@@wilurbean Downstate but have a place around Mancelona.
It’s bad enough you’re telling people you drive a vehicle preferred by lesbians now you’re telling people you’re from Michigan. I’m sorry you are the way you are
@@charliedee9276 nice, mancetucky lol. I'm up in Emmet County near Petoskey and Harbor Springs. Gf is from Bellaire/Torch. That trail system near Kalkaska/Grayling is nice
@@wilurbean Yes it is, I frequent them often. And yes, the Grands are the "fancy" ones lol. I do find the mud wipes off the leather seats pretty easily.
HAVING 4X4 TRUCKS , JP,S, SUV,S ETC 4X4,S SINCE 1974,, I USE A WHEEL WIDTH NO MORE THAN 8 INCH,S & TIRES ABOUT 10" WIDE.. 255 X 80 X 16 /17 IN.WHEELS .. I GOT OVER THE SHOW & NO GO VEHICLES A LONG TIME AGO !! THANK YOU FOR SOME REALLY PRACTICAL VIDEOS ..
Living in the Upper Peninsula I've tried most combinations for the harsh winters/spring & have settled on 35x12.50x17/20 (dependent on season) as a minimum ratio. Currently running 375 55 R20 Atturo TB Boss on my Ram. The powdery snow isn't hardly an issue unless your running slicks, but the heavy wet stuff I prefer a taller wider footprint for flotation (yes even on a heavy vehicle). Some of the best tires to date in heavy wet snow were Super Swamper SXII 35x15.50's but the street quality was about -2 on a scale of 1-10. Looking fwd to see if my Atturo's perform similar this coming winter. Street wise they're acceptable as far as ride, but shine in the off-road territory. Great info and to each their own on what works best for individuals and their driving styles/rig set ups.
Formulas and ratios are seemingly rarely discussed when choosing tires. Nice to see some engineering in sales pitches. Great info.
2:34 of this video is exactly WRONG. Unless Any tire on a vehicle will have the same sized contact patch if they have the same psi.
My 83' CJ-7 has 7" of lift and 37x12.5"s and it does all right. I had an 2004 4-door chevy tracker with 5' of lift and 9.5" x 31" BFG all terrains and that was an awesome combo, I could push snow with the front bumper and still keep traction. Got to love them BFG all terrains!
as someone who daily drives their off-roading vehicle, 265/70/r17’s have done me great down 90% of trails and been very comfortable at high speeds, little noise, and most of the time fit stock rigs
That's the size I run on my 00 Z71, and my 06 grand Cherokee hemi. I don't get into anything too crazy but here in Tucson they work great in the desert for hunting, and camping trips.
I use wildpeak at3 that size on my gx470. I was about togo bigger but the wife talked me out of it. turns out its the way togo for the weight and performance. friend did 35's and wide and he struggles in more stuff then we do.
My daily driver is a 2003 Ford F150 that drives mostly on city streets and highway back and fourth to work. Then on weekends during fall/winter it gets used for hunting/ice fishing. I drive mostly on picked cornfields, dried/frozen chisel plowed fields, same fields with snow/ice on the paths driven on by land owner and other hunters (Waterflowl/pheasant hunting. In the Winter I drive on frozen lakes that usually have under a foot of snow on top of the ice, lot of the time the snow is packed down a bit, and the most "off roading" I end up doing is at the ramp where it gets chewed up by other drivers. In the winter, I also have to drive to work in snow/ice storms/blizzard conditions. I'm considering a set of pizza cutters for my next set of tires to get an extra inch or so of ground clearance and also be able to dig down into the soild, snow/ice to get more traction. Looking at getting the 235/85r16's...I have the "SX4 off road" package already on my truck, so it comes with a 2" lift right from the factory. Currently have a set of 255/70r16's on that make the wheel wells look sort of empty, lol. I don't like big balloon tires....they look stupid, and are NOT practical in the aforementioned applications....unless I plan on going mudding...which I never would do anyway.
One thing to consider is the availability of tire sizes. 255/80 are not widely available especially now. If something happens you'll be out of a replacement for a long time.
Full size spare solves that
I'm running 285/70R17s on my daily driven 5th Gen 4Runner w/ ~2.5" of lift. A little rubbing on the front bumper and was rubbing on the mud flap at full lock only. So far so good on the trails I've been on. We'll see how it does on sand later this year.
How did it do on sand?? Thinking of going from my stock 275/70r18 to 285/75r18 when tread is coooked
More important even than wide or narrow is tire pressure... A narrow tire with a tall sidewall aired down will have a much longer footprint and more surface area than an aired up wide tire.
Well what about an aired down wide tire? Apples to apples
@@HarryKuloh it will have a wider footprint, not a longer one, pressures and weights being equal.
2:34 Thank you for making this point so clearly! So many people just assume that bigger is better while ignoring the basic physics of mass over area. There are realistic limits of course, but when it comes to tires, less is literally more.
7.50x16 (235/85r16) bias ply mud tire on stock steele wheels with no lift on my 1973 Land Rover Series 3 lightweight diesel. Running at about 12-15 psi gives me the best rock crawling on a vehicle barely over 2000lbs
Only size I use too on my Landys , great for everyday driving and the limited off roading I do .
I used to do a lot of corporate off-road days and used the same size in MT pattern or my all time favourite tyre BFG Trac-edge .
I seriously appreciate this video I've been researching modifications for my Tacoma for almost 7 months now.
I learned more useful information from this one single video than I have 7 months of watching other Taco building videos
My strategy is getting as tall a tire as will fit, then worry about going wider if it still fits.
So you're buying two sets of tires to figure that out? Smart
@@tealchief lol no
I have a 2012 Suburban. I run a 30x12.5 tire. It's my daily and I use it on the beach. I'm able to run the beach without having to air down. I still carry the gear I need for adjusting the pressure in case I have an issue. But so far 3 beach/surf fishing seasons with no issues. I run the tires between 35 and 40 psi.
I run 255/75r17 Yoko G003 M/T on my 2021 ZR2 daily driver/trail crawler and find them to be a great balance between off and on road performance, good with road noise, great in all conditions, durable, comfortable, and taller than the stock tire while not requiring any trimming.
I'm running a 2" procomp lift on a Suzuki Jimny with 215/80/15 Tyres, Car weighs about 1100 Kg. I do prefer the 80 profile for the Jimny as when you air down it seems give a better rectangle footprint and because its so light its quite helpful to have the sidewall deform more easily :)
35x10 TSLs on a 94 FZJ80 works great for me. I've ran fat tires, and you're right about the narrow tires having better bite from ground pressure. Great video!
33/10.5X15s on my YJ. They seem to work pretty well. No complaints here other than that it is getting difficult finding 15" tires these days.
YJ's do not have the strongest brakes. The brakes were barely adequate with the stock tires. Those bigger tires really should have a serious brake upgrade
@@TheBandit7613 I'll remember that when I'm buzzing down the interstate at 80. Oh, I don't drive on the interstate. Or go 80. Or 70. Or 60. Thank's bruh.
I run 33x10.5-15 KO2's on Method 7 in rims on my 95 Tacoma XC with 3 in lift front and rear. Works well for my overland set up.
I also run 33x10.5R15 on my Taco with stock wheels. I'm running the Grabber X3 Red Letters.
I love this tire size, but wish there were more options available at this size.
@@bizkillall Agreed!
Great size!
I’m still trying to decide between 255/75/17 and 275/70/17 on my 2000 Extra cab Tacoma. I’m leaning towards the skinnies because they aren’t much narrower and i know I’ll have an easier time with clearance. My truck isn’t heavy and i want to keep it light, at least for now.
From my experience, most of the off roading i do is towing a 2 axle car carrier trailer over swampy grass that is water filled mud the consistency of cake mix just before it hits the pan underneath the grass as far as you can be bothered to dig.
For this on my 60 series landcruiser and 40 series hilux 4wd i run a mud terrain light truck rated 7.50r 16" on the stock split rims. I tried a wider rim with 10.5r 15" tyres and found that it was better when not towing driving over these surfaces (did not break the surface of the grass as easily) but when trying to pull the trailer they didnt have the ability to keep momentum up and i had to be on the governer of the 2H in high 3rd to make progress and i was still barely moving, where with the skinnys i could set the hand throttle to about 2500rpm in low 2 and just plod through it, digging ruts all the way, but achieving a higher rate of travel, the landcruiser weighs 2.3 metric tons with 3/4 of a tank and me in it, the hilux ive not weighed but i assume its about 1600kg or there abouts (3L-T, 4 speed steel case l45 trans, steel tray with sides and no bullbar) it is happy to idle along in low first without a loaded car trailer behind it (technically 850kg trailer and 1300kg car on top exceeds the towing capacity by 950kg) but when loaded i use low 2 and full throttle once the ground speed is up to say 20kmh and can maintain it like that without needing to keep it held flat the whole time once that speed has been reached i tend to modulate the throttle to maintain 3000rpm or so. Hopefully i wont have to do it so often in the future. Going to build a 1 foot deep gravel driveway from the road to my shed/hardstand area. I have no idea why the previous owner thought it ok to build a shed and large gravel hardstand ages from the road without any way to get there 6 months of the year 😂
It's also important to note that wider and/or taller tires add considerably to the stress on all steering components, wheel bearings, and suspension as well as the driveline. To that end, I have a set each of on-road (31x10.50-15) and off-road (33x10.50-15) tires. This also extends the life of the more expensive off-road tires.
You mean you don't "overland" to the grocery store all the time?
@@farstrider79 Hahaha. Nope 😉
Thanks for at great video! Here's a perspective from a countryside driver in Sweden 🙂
For about four years now, I've been driving my old 4800 pound Land Rover Defender Td5 110 on a set of skinny Michelin O/R XZL 7.50R16 tires, measuring 31.8 inches in diameter and 8.4 inches wide (thin!). I use them both on and off the road, as a daily driver on the farm and into town.
They perform well on "light off-road" surfaces such as wet grass, dirt roads, forest trails, soft soil, dry and wet snow, as well as on tarmac roads. They're excellent all-around tires for versatile vehicles. You can deflate them significantly to increase traction on very soft terrain. I presume the military selects these tires because of their versatility. However, during the coldest parts of winter, I swap them for studded tires, as that's the only thing that works on ice."
I have the willys edition 4 door JL with the 255/75r17 MTs and honestly love them. I may eventually get the same tire in 33x10.5 but the daily drivability is outstanding. I have also never been stuck in some thick mud or snow. The 255s seem to be better than most MTs in snow
Are they the BFGoodrich set?
@krissan5162 they were the firestone destination mt2s. At the 20k mile mark they started to get very loud, but did not lose any capability.
I had 315/70/17, then 315/75/16 before going with 265/75/16 on my '09 Wrangler JKU. I don't like the look near as much, but my Jeep sure does like the change! Gas mileage, handling, road noise, comfort, peppiness all improved dramatically - it was like taking ankle weights off each corner. I don't offroad as much as I'd like to so it's mostly a DD. Function over look at this moment for me.
Been running 33/12.50/15s on my single cab for years, lots of street driving and a lot more offroad use then most would ever do. Only thing I’ve noticed is in mud I don’t seem to do as well as I think a slightly narrower tire would be
Thank you for the confirmation having been picked on for only going 10 1/2 wide!! I've a 2dr JL with 35x10.5 Kenda Klever and a 2.5" lift that's a daily driver that hits the pay-to-play parks at least once a month, and Pennsylvania trails in between that. In addition to the benefits you mentioned for the narrower tire, there's PA law regarding fenders (which, they honestly don't often harass...still), a lighter tire to take on and off, etc. I've been extremely satisfied both on and off road.
I’m running 235/85/16 Duratracs on a Nissan frontier with a 2”lift, extended control arms. They’ve required zero trimming or melting. They’ve been great on the trail riding I do and have performed amazingly even when we’ve taken wrong turns that lead us into more technical terrain as well as on pavement. Though the ride on pavement is definitely stiffer than I would like, it’s a trade off to not worry so much on shale logging roads
02 TJ stock with 235/75R15 9.25W
I put my money under the hood and with a B&M shifter. Tires are important, how ever they only perform well if the driver has the power and ability to place the tires correctly. Just my thought, however i am fairly new.
I really like the 285/75r18 is my new favorite size tire. It’s a full 35” tire that’s about 11” wide. Performance is good and they are much easier to fit on a closer to stock rig than the ubiquitous 12.50s. I have them on an ‘11 F150 with a 2” level, all i had to do was pull the mud flaps.
Yep I completely agree.
Been running this size on my power wagon’s. Perfect size tire. Get the height w/o the extra width and weight.
Totally agree, will be putting this size on my tundra soon.
Just the size I'll be moving to from my 275/70r18 when tread is done!
I have a 2001 Jeep xj on 2.5 inch lift with 4.10 gears and a rear lunchbox locker. Stock wheels and 30x9.50 r15 hankook dynapro at2 tires. So far it has gone everywhere I wanted it to on the trail and it’ll do 75 mph down the highway very comfortably. I get about 13 mpg around town and I got 17 mpg doing 80 mph on a 4 hour road trip. I ran the trail from union springs to flagpole knob in Virginia and the Jeep did it with ease, everyone else out there had wranglers with at least 33’s. Also it’s a beast in the snow!
Having wider tires also effects handling amongst other pros and cons not mentioned in detail. Having a wide er tire and/or spacers will widen your track. The pros of that are: you will have more stability and many consider it to be aesthetically pleasing. The cons are: a wider turning radius, more stress on the suspension/axle components, and there is more rotating (unsprung weight.) Quite often this will lead to a rougher on road experience. Wider and taller is not always the answer, but try to convince a jeep club of that and be taken seriously;)
More stability and lower center of gravity which sometimes is crucial during off-road when you almost roll over.
30 x 9.50 R15 (BFG K02's) on my 1968 Jeepster Commando, running a 2" lift. Did great on most of the intermediate trails in Moab, and great manners on the street.
I am running the 9.5-34 16 super swampers on a TJ rubicon with a 4.5” long arm lift. I have been impressed with the traction. If I start to spin, I just back out. It doesn’t have to spin very much to get the axels on the ground. I like this approach much better than the give it hell approach that is used with wide tires. It’s a lot easier on the axels. My next set will be the 35x10 16 swamper I will stick with one of these two sizes.
It cracks me up how it is so commonplace here in the US for people to think that a wider tire is BETTER at most or all things than a narrower tire, which is categorically false. Unless you are constantly driving on hot and loose sand, clay-filled mud, or hardpacked snow, a narrower tire is going to do better than a wider tire every single time.
Something else a lot of people don't seem to understand is that your tires actually look a lot bigger when they are narrower. For example, a 35"x10" tire is going to look A LOT bigger than a 35"x12.5" tire.
Trimming always makes it look bigger, guys.
Kenda 35x10.5r17 on a JK. Ultimate pizza cutter performance. Performs better than a wider tire 99% of the time IMO.
are they even true to their size? I have 315-75r16 duratracs that run about 33.75/34. Theyre fine but my 4 door is not super heavy. They kill it in any mud or deeper snow, they just float and spin over. Sadly i should of went with a 17 inch rim really not much for 16 inch rims
@@mails5054 they are not, they are more “true” 34 on my lightweight 2door. I heard that the Baja Boss AT 35x10r17 runs closer to a true 35 though.
I just got these for my 2008 Pathfinder they are awesome!
@@mails5054 mine are 34”
Especially in snow
2dr JK Rubicon running 316/75r16 with a 3.5” lift. They do very well offroad and on. Currently have BFG K02’s because we really like driving around on snow days. 30psi for pavement and 15psi for rocks.
You're overlooking one thing: lower pressure across a larger contact patch could result in more grip. It depends on the coefficient of friction. You can't tell anything by the pressure on the footprint alone.
th-cam.com/video/6wAJAOxh8LE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=CWbPJ69QGosPCnZv would disagree with you.
I've watched a video comparing skinnier tire vs wider tire contact patches and it shows that (dependent on the tire) skinnier tires can have a larger contact patch when aired down due to the extra psi because the tire sags more, creating a skinnier, but longer patch than the wider tire that may not sag as much due to less psi, creating a wider, but considerably shorter contact patch
I run 255/85b16 104K Maxxis M-8090 Creepy Crawler's on my 1st gen 4runner, stock height suspension with Bilstein shocks and a 1inch bodylift. I run 255/70r18 116Q Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac's on my Discovery 2, with a 2 inch liftkit from Terrafirma. I prefer the more narrow tire they cut trough the mud nicely, they don't rob as much power, better when braking and it also puts less strain on the steeringbox. Wide tires look really good though. My wifes Durango sits on 305/40r22 114W ContiCrossContact UHP, it looks amazing the down sides are heavy on fuel, steering feel is rubish, tires steer the car on bad roads and ruds, tendency to aquaplane and the abs kicks in fast, it does have inmense grip in high speed corners though (as long as it is dry). My wife really likes her car like that and she drives it like a granny, and since she doesn't nag and puts up with me and all my expensive hobby's i don't care about her tire and wheel choices.
285/75/17 on my T4R, great all around size. Has gotten me everywhere I've wanted.
Two door JK with 2.5 inch suspension. 35x10.50 RTs and have had good performance on and off road. Sure I miss the cool kid look but I appreciate how much better this width is working.
2011 jku, 2.5" lift, I'm running 295/70/17. It seems to be a "well rounded" size, I live in Alaska so I see pretty much any road surface/condition out there and this size seems to do well in most conditions, unless it's ice above 10 degrees F, then they slide around a bit
Why did it take me so long to find this video so professional and easy to listen too thanks man 🇺🇸🙏 you are years Ahead of every other channels video content very educational and non stimulating
Glad it was helpful! We appreciate the support! If you have any suggestions for future videos let us know in the comments sometime.
This was a great video. I have been in the auto industry for 45 years and it’s amazing how many people don’t understand about weight and traction. I have seen these ding dongs put wide ass tires on their vechs and crash with the first rain. One of the funniest things I have ever seen was a mud bog race were someone showed up with skinny tractor tires that could dig down to the hard pack and he blew everybody away.😂😂
Yes,if there is a bottom before you hit the axle tube.
I run 315/70r17 AT on my JLU 3" lift. It's been a great combo for what I do. Mainly, desert, and rocks. My levelled Sierra has 305/55r20 ATs. Mainly cosmetic but works good off road on the rare occasion that it hits the dirt.
I’m running 315 70 17s (35”) hybrids on my 4 door jeep jk, seems to work pretty well all around. Not too much hydroplaning. No rubbing on turns or off-roading with the 3” lift kit
Remember, you only have to hydroplane once in the right spot. Game over!
I need 32x9.5x15 tires for my Jeep YJ, I'm looking for A/T's or M/T's but nothing aggressive like super swampers.
Tire width doesn't change the size of the contact patch. The tire's air pressure changes the size of the contact patch. This is right in the name of the unit: Pounds per square inch. Change the psi and change the pounds exerted on each square inch of ground.
The SHAPE of the contact patch is altered by the width and diameter of the tire. The construction will change the contact patch too, but if we are comparing like to like then this factor shouldn't be too significant. Further to this the cross section volume of the tire is basically the load carrying capacity of the tire (like construction to like construction: E.g. E to E).
Oh good, I'm glad someone else said it instead of me. Pressure is pressure, sidewall stiffness aside. That said, the vehicle weight and sidewall deflection matters too. If it's a heaver vehicle, 10psi will have a larger contact patch than a lighter vehicle. Running wider tires will help reduce sidewall deflection which will give you more ground clearance when aired down. This means that a tire that's too skinny will be harder to turn aired down since the longer contact patch will increase steering torque slightly, but a tire that's too wide will also be harder due to increased scrub radius. I think vehicle weight is the #1 design consideration when building an offroad vehicle. Heavier means more traction, wider tires, heavier axles, more power, etc.
That said, a skinny tire will still do better for hydroplaining
You've explained this perfectly! Great job with your TH-cam channel! Andy McKane, Land Rover owner 1964-1993; Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon owner 2012 to present. We outfitted my wife with a 2014 Grand Cherokee Overland diesel. We sold that as, according to my wife, "there have been too many issues with the exhaust gas recirculaton" that required far too many trips to L.H. Miller Jeep in Provo Utah before moving to the Hawaiian Island of Molokai in 2019. You and your channel give A-1 advice from what I've seen so far. Andy McKane, Maunaloa, Hawaii.
Happy to hear Andy!! Glad we could help provide useful info for you and everyone out there looking to learn more!
The world needs more 35/10.50's
My wife and I live in the mountains here in Pa, we run 33x10 on our cclb dually, 33x11 on our half ton rcsb and 30.6 x 10.5 on the our Colorado eclb. We found the skinny tire work best for us especially in the snow. We live on top of a mountain and getting up and down can be unnerving. All three trucks run bfg muds.
Im on team wide. 12.5 is a good standard. I like low ground pressure for where i wheel. Mostly mud. I have been some pretty amazing places on a 285 75 16 back in the day but 33 12.5 and 35 12.5 is a noticeable change off road.
Funny thing is I assumed you had an f250 based on tire size, then I see you name!
33x10.50 and 35x10.50 tires if you can find them.
Same here, especially since I have a 2WD truck. The extra width plus a locker really helps.
Wide tires suck in mud. Try narrow and you'll be shocked. U just like the wide ones despite the poor performance
@@sham_wow_guy width doesn't help even if you seem to think it does
For offroad usage there was a set of 265/75r16 cooper mt-s and for daily and long asphalt trips I started to use a set of 245/75r16 Yokohama g015 at-s. (Disco 2 with 2"lift)
Skinny every time on 4x4 . Better mileage, Move maneuverability on narrow trails and rock climbing ,better traction less hydroplaneing and when aired down do fine in sand and best with studs in snow
Hahahaha …. Good one
Yeah contact patch in the front to back plane is more valuable than the left to right plane due to rolling resistance. Hence, big fat tyres aren't the best
@@badwerds hahahahahahaha good one 😆😎🤘🏻
@@brandonmoore5988 yup, science - hilarious
@@badwerds bwa ahahahahahaha keep go buddy! I love story’s
I like a tall(read 35-37") tire but prefer 11.5 or so width. Doesn't tear up side paint if tires are mostly inside fender wells.
My experience is the wider the tire, the sketchier it is to drive on the road when its raining. They act like skis. Most of us will never use the tires for its intended purpose.
I like the Falken AT3w cuz they grab well in the rain. Other tires are like ice skates from my experience. Sadly they dont last long.
Living near the beach, the higher the PSI load of the tire to the surface, the quicker I sink in the sand. For example, my loaded down Power Wagon with 35x12.5 wants to dig into the sand, so I pay close attention to it it sinking. I can feel it digging ruts, so I keep the momentum up a bit and foot in the throttle. My JK with 35x12.5 floats over the top easily and with much less effort. I have found the same with mud. I sunk my PW with both axles locked in a muddy field and had to walk out as there was nothing to winch to. I used the JK to recover it with only limited slip in the rear, and it had not problem with burying itself.
At least for me, the wider tires have worked better despite the disadvantages or hydroplaning, weight and rolling resistance. I cannot speak for rock crawling or hard core wheeling though.
Narrow tires are so much better in snow, sand and mud. I learned that personally.
I'm running 32x11.5r15 mud claw tires on my 89 ramcharger and they served me really well they have enough traction to drag a fwd car (in park) around while in gravel while of course using 4 low with 2 open diffs.
37x12.5x17 on my JKU Rubicon with about 3.5-4” total lift (between the Falcon 3.3 shocks, 3” lift kit and proper set up), great combo. I see a lot of 35 & 37 x13.5” out there and couldn’t imagine having that much more wide rotating mass and road rut pull from the wider tire. I drive my Jeep (5 hours) to and from Moab often so it has to be happy on the Highway for hours while also able to handle up to 6-8 difficulty trails. I also currently run an AT (Falcon Wildpeak AT3W) instead of a more aggressive MT for that same road compromise. For me it’s been a fantastic set up, if I ran in mud more I’d probably move to an RT tread or maybe one of the moderately meaty MT options.
I bought my Tacoma with some 31” M/T tires on it and it sucked… super loud on the road and the extra weight killed the mileage on the commute. Off-road was great. I switched to a 235 wide 31” tire commonly used on dually trucks. The tires were 23# lighter per tire, quieter, better MPG. Off-road, I haven’t noticed much difference. I did use a 1” spacer to take them to the edge of the wheel well. Looks good and performs better than expected.
Love the topic discussed here!
My method is based around the 35x12.50 tire. From there, I add or subtract one inch in width for every two inches of tire diameter (i.e. 34x12.00, 33x11.50, 37x13.50, etc.).
I prefer wider tires but I also Crawl alot most of my 4runners have 3 inch lift or higher and have a 2 to 3 inch body lift
I mostly wheeled in the coast range with an FJ 40. I ran 33. 9.50 15s and mostly had no problems. The truck had pretty good highway manners too.
6500lb truck on 37x13.5s. I live in the desert and there is a ton of soft sand, talcum powder like silt, and slick rock thats rough like 80grit sandpaper. Does really well. The skinnier tires here bite too much into the sand and wind up getting stuck more often that the wider tires. Not much mudding going on here, and when it is, it's usually nearly bottomless lake silt mud near the waters edge that even 40s won't save you from.
Interesting topic! I went from a 35x12.50 on one of my trucks (6,500lbs vehicle) to a 36x15.50 tire. On road was way more sketchy, would actually slide adound on dry pavement with the wider tire. Offroad, it performed a lot better in the sloppy mud and really soft sand.
2006 Tacoma crew cab short bed stock suspension , I’m running 265/75/16 grabber x3 for the occasional off road camping trips about 3 times a year & they are perfect for everyday driving as well , however I have 2 sets of wheels & mostly run the 265/70/17 all season tires through the summer. Both are perfect for my needs.
I guess Im on the fence with my 265/75r16s. Probably my favorite all around tire sizes.
Been doing this for years skinny tires just work have never gotten stuck without something hanging up under the rig so I'm a big fan of taller tires as well
Just like everything else it comes down to the terrain you'll be on. Personally I'm a big fan of skinnier tires, they cut through mud, snow and ice (if there is a hard surface underneath) for better traction. For deep snow, sand, and bottomless mud pits wide tires obviously provide better floatation. There aren't a ton of options for 34"-35" tires that are 10.5 inches wide or narrower though.
I suspected on a light vehicle like a 4Runner, an E-rated sidewall would be more compliant at 255/80 than 285/70 but up until now couldn't find anyone who could put numbers to the decision making. Thanks for this. Love it.
Running 31x10.5 on my Cherokee xj. Really seems ideal, any bigger or wider and you start breaking stuff and losing road manners.
Me too! XJs are very capable so XJ with 31s can go wheeling with big boys.
Same here XJ with 3" lift with 31x10.5
@@DelgueAdventures looking back I wish I would’ve gone 3 instead of 4.5, I’m going to have to get a sye. But I was scared to rub and I’m not trimmed
I have an xj w 4.5” lift I’m running 275/70/17. Looking back I wish I had gotten the long arm kit. I just bought a control arm drop kit. That should stop it from riding like a tank. As far as the tires, the on and off-road performance is really good. I’m not running a SYE and I have no driveline vibes.
Daily driver but you also live in Alaska or rural Canada I highly recommend the Kenda klever RT, They are very affordable They have substantial meat on the tire They are lightly syped with pre-made holes for studs They can also come in an E-rating for diesels or 2500s They also have with sizes ranging from 9.5, 10.5 and 12.5 and all things considered they are very quiet tire for how long they last 👍
Just realized I originally said M/T I actually meant the R/T 😂 You definitely DO NOT want the MT the R/T is where it's at!!!
Kenda Klever RT 35x10.5x17 on a Jeep Gladiator with a 2” Mopar lift. Running factory wheels.
Love the set up. Looks old school military in the stance. Handles the snow, sand, and mud in Michigan.
My trail rigs consisted of a couple of OBS Fords and a Jeep xj cherokee. In every case, I found that performance on a variety of different terrains average out best on 235/85 r16. I always bought retread tires that used e-rated casings. It makes for a rougher ride so off-road I usually want to be around 20 psi. But my trucks were always out at slick Southern clay Lake bottoms with lots of hidden prickly hazards. The last thing you want is a flat in the middle of a swamp. So a half ton or lighter vehicle with big thick 1 ton Tire casings just isn't going to get a puncture serious enough to cause a flat unless you hit something at freeway speeds lol. My wider tires did much better over the Sandy Beach because they rode on top, but with the mud, while they had better flotation and less of a chance of high centering, I found myself getting stuck more often from lack of traction. The key thing to remember with skinny off-road tires, is absolutely, positively do not spin your wheels. They will dig straight down and you will get high centered. That being said, I was able to go more places with fewer problems the minute that tire size became my standard.
I think a 255mm wide (10 inches) is the perfect all round width for daily drivers with some weekend off road use. These would be ideal for vehicles such as the Land Rover Defender, Lexus GX460, Jeep Wrangler, Toyota 4Runner, FJ Cruiser, Land Cruiser 70 series and Tacoma.
There’s a good variety of options now too - 255/85R16, 255/75R17, 255/80R17 and the newly released 255/85R17.
Also the 35x11.50r17 Nitto Trail Grappler MT is 10.62 on a 7 inch wide wheel or 265/85r17(11.42 on a 9 inch wide wheel and use the .2 of an inch tire width change per .5 inch in wheel width change).
I've thought the 255/85R16 was the sweet spot for a lot of vehicles.
It depends on the weight of the vehicle ..
Let's just get ridiculous and say the vehicle is a 2017 F350 Super Duty Diesel with dual rear wheels... The video is way wrong to suggest using GVWR, which is 14,000 Lbs for said truck .. What I posted earlier is correct: use Curb Weight, which is only 7,077 - 7,694 Lbs.
As you can see, the video suggests a stupid number to use because it represents a fully loaded to the legal maximum weight, which isn't good for wheeling if you don't want high chances of breaking down from overworking the vehicle.
As far as 255 being ideal... definitely depends on the Curb Weight of the vehicle.
Ground Pressure is the term that should have been used in the video, representing the PSI placed on the ground. A wider tire can drive in sand with less or no airing down than a narrower tire. It really does boil down to vehicle weight and terrain you expect to handle.
I know trails you can't climb without very tall and narrow tires, or you will never reach the hard pack earth underneath the deep soft top layer, and places where the wider the better due to fine blow sand that's worst when extremely dry.
255 only applies to vehicles approximately 4,000-4,500Lbs, and only as an all-around general tire. The carcass of most metric sized tires isn't made to be aired down, that's when you want a 3X x 10 flotation rated tire made to be aired down safely.
The F350 Super Duty dually comes from factory with 245/75R17 tyres so how would a 255mm tyre not be suitable? If the engineers selected a 245mm wide tyre surely they must have determined that to be an ideal size based on the vehicle requirements. Obviously the super single without the dual wheel setup can run a 285mm or wider but a 255mm wide setup would still work well for a dually.
@@ianparsons8894 The 255/85r17 Mickey Thompson Baja Boss AT is 34.6x9.80(245/90r17 is 34.4×9.80) on a 7 inch wide wheel, the same width as a 245/75r17 on a 7 inch wide wheel.
I'm running a 3.5 inch RC lift on Toyota Tacoma SR5 double cab with 0 offset KMCs paired with falkin wildpeak at3 33s. The build is to be highway and adventure camping with the family. Nothing crazy but I love in Wyoming and the trails can be unexpected so hell yea love the build! I did do a cab mount cut and its functional
I've always preferred narrow. Better all around for my use
Well in Europe is illegal to drive a vehicle on public roads with different size tires that what the vehicle is registered with, according to manufacturer spec for that type of vehicle and what sizes are in the vehicle papers.. if police stop at a routine stop & check the driver can get license suspended, a hefty tax but if he is involved in an incident that results in accidents with other vehicles with victims the driver with different wheels sized on it's vehicle will get the full blame and it might even face jail time.. also is important to have the right tires not regarding just size but also to weather : (summer tires are for summer, winter to be used on winter is dangerous to drive in summer with winter tires or in winter with summer tires).. now there is an exception for all-season which works all-year around but must be frequently check for tire thread depth wear (minimum accepted thread depth usage is 4,5 mm bellow that is dangerous for the all-season tires safety grip while in braking specially in rain) also in winter all vehicles must have winter tires and for extreme cold countries like : Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Finland studded tires or chains for tires are mandatory during the winter season..
@@poplaurentiu4148 Europeans prefers women and tires that are tall and slim as opposed to buxom. Americans like 38 double D's on their women.. and their trucks! 😃🤣😅
@@poplaurentiu4148 that’s a whole lot of fuck that you just said.
I have a 1999 Toyota 4Runner with a 3” lift and 285/75r16 bf Goodrich ko2 tires and was pretty impressed with most driving/wheeling situations except they did struggle a little in deep soft sand out on the beach.
Your vehicles' stock tires were the outcome of countless factors by several engineers based on your vehicle.
The farther you venture from the original design, the weirder everything gets.
With that said, I like slightly taller tires of the same width from the factory.
In mud the thin tyre is best as it cut through silt and isn't going to slip. Fat tyres will float on silt that will make it slip. This guy has it backward. Sand will be better to use a wider tyre.
Thats how I've always understood it as well
It's not that cut and dry. The deeper the mud, the better the fat tires are. You actually want that "float". But in thin layers of mud, thinner tires do better. In deep mud, you want the paddle wheel affect with fat tires. Thinner tires will also cut down through the mud easier, which can be bad for clearance. There really isn't a "one tire" does all best. It's literally what best for personal your environment.
@@clark8712 I appreciate the input.
@@clark8712 If the mud is so deep a thinner tyre cant cut to the harder ground then you will be stuck no matter what tyre you have and need to winch out or be pulled. The way to get the foot print larger is to let out air down to around 12 or 13 PSI .. This makes the foot print flatter and more important longer giving it a better grip again. It is all about knowing your rig and how to drive also. I have many years of Overlanding through many countries behind me. The tyre that works best for all environments on my Defender 110 is the BFG AT 255 75 16 .. If you want a real good working combo then use AT on the front with the MT or the rear. This give far better road use to stop understeer and better stopping power on tarmac as the AT grips the road better in the wet. The MT give a great bite and push in the sloppy stuff after the AT has cut the path in front. You are not likely to get the backend out on an old D110 in the wet on the road so it works very well. This is a good tyre mix I use. As long as the tyres are the same height on a 4X4 you can mix them around and make it very cleaver .. If you are cleaver at sussing it out that is.. But at the end of the day, it all depends on the driver and what the purpose is for being in beeper mud than your axles can clear. it is nice to see people trying out new things and asking the questions and getting other opinions.
@@traylorjbc I'd never air down for deep mud. Clearance is king, not the foot print. Maybe air'd down a little just for general offroad softness but not to get a foot print. Not to mention the way better chance off popping a bead with low pressure. Even double beadlocks leak mudding. I agree with you on everything but deep mud... it just doesn't work that way. In deep mud it's all about momentum, clearance, floatation effect and paddle effect. You're never gonna get down deep enough for harder surface traction to matter. Overlanding is not even close to the same as mud bogging.
I just jumped from a 285 /70/ 17 to a 315/70/17, I went with the Goodyear territory mt ( tires that come on the bronco ) I love the difference in ride. And the look of those tires .Had death wobble and replaced tie rods, ball joints and upper n lower control arms cause I couldn’t find a bad link to cause it. Tires. It was my old nittos . I love how much better my jk rolls down the road now.
Daily driving a 2017 Jeep Wrangler JK 2-door. 2.5" lift on some 35x12.50R17 mudders wrapped on some 17x9 high off-set wheels. I live off a dirt road deep in the "boonies" of SoCal and we often get stuck in the house due to the dirt turning to mud. Work also takes me down some rough roads where the added thickness of load-range e tires helps prevent punctures (company doesn't supply work vehicles but covers gas charges on road calls) Haven't really had any issues with the 12.5 wide tires on the street other than just being loud.
Put as wide as you can fit. The wider the better. Case closed, just saved you 10 mins.
The bottom line is what are you using it for? Flat ground or rock crawling? Rocks: wide as you can get