Near miss between fighter and commercial jet
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 พ.ค. 2009
- Filmed from the fighter's cockpit. At time 03:30 you see the contrails of the commercial jet appearing at the horizon on the left side. In the end you can clearly see the jet.
- ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
It still amazes me how planes could strike mid air. Like you have the entire Earth and like 50,000 feet up and down and you somehow still manage to hit the 100x50ft object flying perpendicular to you.
I am really into aviation, I’ve watched just about every breakdown of every disaster that’s ever occurred.
Yet I still think this point often lol
@@walkie1985 Thanks for weighing in on this. I had the same questions. I don't know anything about planes or aviation though. All I know is that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Unless you are on a globe, then it's a curved line. But either way, It makes sense that traffic would flow both ways on said line. cheers.
You should hop onto a flight tracker and see how thick the airspace can be sometimes
@@heraclitus6100 Even on a globe...the line is still straight. The line only appears curved because you are flattening the map out.
really interesting topic. i often fly with a friend of mine. It's amazing how close you can get to other planes. Very important to always look around and try to spot other aircraft.
3:55 the moment you’ve all been waiting for
Thanks
Please continue being awesome!
Thanks
@@TheGrace020 gotchu bro
@@dongo6988 o7
That will be quite a show to those in the right side of the airliner.
Brent G And on your right, you'll see- HOLY SHIT
The passengers didn't see it. zip.
They're probably sleeping, not bothering to look out the window.
Or watching a movie.
Magnum Maximum it’s not night, that’s what the camera looks like
This is a clear example of what they call the "Swiss Cheese Model" of aviation safety. The first controller cleared the flight of two up to FL360. The second controller apparently thought the fighters were at FL320. Also, the flight lead's transponder was not working correctly. Not until after the #2 aircraft turned on his transponder was the altitude error discovered by the controller. Had the first controller passed the altitude on to the second, this wouldn't have happened. Had the transponder worked this wouldn't have happened. The transponder would have saved them for two reasons: 1. the controller would have seen the fighter's altitude and 2. the TCAS in the airliner would have gotten them started on a climb or descent to avoid the fighters (even if the controller still didn't catch the altitude problem). The final hole was the fact that the second fighter SAW the airliner and din't say anything until WAY late in the game. These guys were on a separate frequency than the airliner (UHF vs VHF) and I can only imagine what the airliner was saying on the radio! This is much more complex than simply Italians eating pizza and not paying attention. It's not stupidity, it's just a multiplication of layers of errors. Finally, all the holes in the Swiss Cheese lined up, right up until the end when the fighters broke off and avoided the collision themselves. (Maybe they would have missed anyways, but it's hard to tell from the video). At the end of the day, the pilots were the ones who kept that last hole in the cheese from lining up, thus preventing an accident.
Thanks for the only comment that was likely the real story. No transponder operating, no mode C, no TCAS - and a breakdown in communication between controllers, something bad was likely to happen. It saddens and amuses me about how many armchair "pilots" have no clue what's happening!!
Exactly. Everyone else commenting in here is retarded.
Where they really eating pizza? It must have been Italian cheese, on the pizza, then. Thankfully.
This is the only comment that makes sense. Thank you!
James Parenteau
Thanks for the insightful comment. 😎👍🏼
"Is that a plane?"
"Copy?"
"I think thats a plane"
"FUCK!"
It’s actually:
What’s this stuff that’s passing by here in the middle?
What?
An aircraft is passing between us
FUCK!
@@vincenzo_turco Pilot 1: "Man, we have such a tight formation!"
Pilot 2: "Wow, our wing tips are almost touching!"
Pilot 1: "Dude, we're like better than the Thunderbirds!"
Pilot 2: "We'll be accepted to Top Gun for sure!"
Airline pilot: flies an Airbus between them while sipping coffee with a flight attendant in his lap
Pistonburner actually I meant it for real, I am Italian like the pilots
@@pistonburner6448 ... "with a flight attendant in his lap"? Man, curb yourself.
its a space station
Great to see many people taking a shot to understanding this and how many don't. First, ICAO language is English, which can make radio traffic tough to understand at times. I am surprised they didn't communicate in Italian...which is acceptable at times. We'd hear it all the time when flying overseas.
So to review: He was cleared to FL360 at about :25 seconds. Confirmed Altitude 360. Changed squawk to 1461 prior to a frequency change. Vectored heading and cleared again to FL360. Expedite climb, confirmed altitude. Changing sector control to Roma control. Did not confirm altitude with new controller. Asked to Ident but sounds like he was having issues when asked to check Charlie Mode (the squawk. Change squawk to 3426. Sounds like someone saying something about seeing something about the pass. Asked to reset again. Then wingman was given squawk and that's when they realized that Roma thought they were at FL320. Given immediate descent.
These things happen. While under AWACS control of the Carolina coast, we were not told of another flight of a tanker and fighters coming directly at us, same altitude. We had to take evasive action while dragging fighters and when we asked the AWACS controller, he said "I wasn't controlling them". Dude, we don't care who was controlling them, you needed to give us a traffic call! When flying to Saudi, we had a lot of issue with air traffic control. We had to set up orbit at the border after being told numerous times to "Stand By" when requesting clearance to enter their airspace...not good when you are not carrying a lot of extra fuel with you and you are still 4 hours away from the runway..
One clarification for non-aviation types: Mode C (Charlie) is a transponder mode which not only identifies the aircraft on the radar through the assigned code, in this case 1461, but also its altitude, which is automatically displayed on the controller's scope.
@@KutWrite No. Mode C transmits the aircraft altitude. Mode 3 transmits a 4-digit number set by the pilot. Mode 3 is used for identification, NOT mode C. American military aircraft also have a Mode 1 (2-digit number), Mode 2 (4-digit number), Mode 4 (encrypted) called IFF(Identification Friend or Foe), and Mode 5 (Encrypted Mode S & GPS). Mode B use to be used in the UK, Canada, and Australia but is no longer used. Originally (pre 1965), Air Traffic Control used Mode A (4-digit), Mode B (4-digit in UK, Canada, Australia), and Mode C (Altitude). The military had Mode 1 (2-digit), Mode 2 (4- digit), Mode 3 (4-digit), Mode 4 (IFF), and Mode 5 (Altitude). The civilian Mode A was the same as the military Mode 3 and was referred to as Mode 3/A. The civilian Mode C was the same as the military Mode 5 and was referred to as Mode 5/C. The military redefined Mode 5 in the 1990s as an encrypted Mode that transmits Mode S & GPS position data. Many people today mistakenly think of Mode 3, Mode A, and Mode C as sort of being parts of the same thing, kind-of. They're not really sure, but the belief is prevalent, even appearing that way in Wikipedia. The bottom line is civilian and military aircraft use mode 3 for identification and Mode C for altitude. Military aircraft have more modes normally used in war but they can't be seen by any civilian radar, only military radars.
@@piratesim1491 And??? Fighters still need to work with civilian aircraft and controllers - a mid-air collision'll ruin everyone's day.
@@vikkimcdonough6153 ?
the pilot is blind 100%
Plane becomes visible around 3:15
Near miss at 3:55
Poop in pants at 4:02
Thank you!
bless
when he got transferred to rome, rome failed to tell him to drop altitude, he is not a bad pilot, the control tower sucks at doing there job. for those wandering what his altitude was on the right side,1/3 of the way down the letter R followed by some numbers is his altitude.
emerychandler it’s called a hand off and the Tower doesn’t work aircraft in that airspace but Radar does. It would Center most likely or approach control just saying.
Actually French ATC has mistaken altitude and Rome corrected it.
The number after the R is the radar altitude (height above ground); the pressure altitude (height above mean sea level, the type of altitude that pilots almost always use) is the readout in thousands on the scrolling tape below that (with the 35.5... 36... 36.5...).
I am so amazed how calm the fighter pilot is. I would be giving ATC every one of my profane remarks in my head. The only way of telling how stressed the pilot was, was by hearing him breathing more rapidly immediately after. Other than that, he was a complete professional. Europe has the most congested airspace in the would. I would like to thank the Italian military for releasing this video and you, Kristofvi for posting it.
Dr. Ron
aka
segundooron
Nice accent. I waited the whole time for "Fernando is faster than you." ;-)
Jajajajajaja
I enjoy being a fan of a sport with a dwindling fan base. I get to be in on a joke that not many will get.
He pulled 4 Gs on that bank
4.2!!!
Amazingly less than some F1 corners
@@numberoneglobal4972 can't be compared though. Lateral G's vs Vertical G's.
@@Dave-dh7rt that 4.2 G pull was closer to a 4.3 than a 4.2
@rustynalez I am a pilot, actually. Believe it or not, it's extremely tough to see an airplane from head on. It usually begins as a dot with no relative movement. At the speeds and altitude they were at, miles can be covered in seconds making that tiny spec turn into an airliner before you would know what hit you.
Are you kidding? You could see the contrails of the plane miles away. Pilots were not paying attention.
@@essel23fly On the camera yes - but not with your own eyes...
@@niklaschmid what do you mean on the camera?
Why are we replying to 10 year old comment. Also he means the camera on these Jets is not in the cockpit. It has an entirely different field of view as the pilot. What the camera is able to pick up in black and white. Might not be a true representation of what a human is able to see in a blue sky with glare on the canopy.
@@Grastiars1 lol that will just appear as white instead of black against a blue sky in real life. The plane has contrails, it's easy to see another plane inflight if they have contrails that's my point.
It was an IFR flight, which means that ATC is responsible for separation from other traffic. French ATC cleared them to FL360 then switched them over to Rome ATC. Rome couldn't read the aircraft altitude. The leader was probably distracted with trying to make his transponder work. The wingman had seen the traffic but thought it was a 1000ft below, as it is very difficult to judge vertical separation on a close approaching traffic if you're not TCAS equipped. Then the wingman set the sqwawk and Rome finally realized its mistake.
Anybody judging what happened is not a pilot!!
I’m just 20 hours into flight lessons and I understood everything you said and it made sense to me
@@USAMontanan Yea but apparently alot of yt specialists have probably never taken single 1minute of flight lessons
Yes I agree! In the US the FAA does however also delegate part of the responsibility on the pilot even if on an IFR flight IF the flight conditions are VMC. Not sure how it is over I Italy though! Either way the ATC should’ve done a better job. Very scary
@@USAMontanan I have 0 hours in flight lessons and understand what he said lol
How did WW II pilots on all sides ever survive without all of this modern computer fly by wire instruments?
they were good (=
They did not fly with supersonic speed.
Not to mention that in the early 40's, there was about 2% of the air traffic that there is today.
Maybe they didn't have all that stuff on HUD obstructing their view.
they were flying a loooot slower, and there weren't so many aircraft in the skies
At 4:13 translates: "Please have two large rolls of toilet paper ready on the ground."
NeverforgetElvis I’m french and I can comfirm
i dont understand how is that near hit, the jet was sooo far from the airplane
@@American_2 it's italian, not french. They say "did you see that?" "of course I saw that! It passed just right next to me!!"
Tommaso Viani theres french too from the ATC
They did not say that.
This is insanely close. Unfortunately for me, the jet pilots reaction turned some of the drama into comedy.
**finally looks up from instruments**
"(expletive)!"
**insta-banks**
Classic.
should he pull up?
for faster hit avoidance
+420Kasper420 he should've spotted the jets contrails. it looked like a 737.
The phrase "near miss" means "a miss in which the objects came near to each other". It all checks out. Calm the fuck down.
And then, on the other hand, you have the people who fail to understand the correct use of capital letters. Lol
Unfortunately this accident couldn't been avoided in 2006 when a B737-800 Collided with a Embraer's Legacy, both aircraft were flying at the same flight level 370, due to ATC error and communications failures. The Legacy's transponder for unknown reasons went off during the flight, and their winglet teared the Boeing's left wing apart, the Boeing entered an uncontrollable spin and the G forces broke up the aircraft in flight, the Legacy managed to land safely at an air base and all 7 people on board were left unharmed but all 154 people on Gol's flight 1907 died
The Embraer was either a brand new aircraft or newly upgraded aircraft, and the two pilots are thought to have accidentally switched their transponder off (thus disabling their TCAS) due to unfamiliarity with their new instrument systems.
Damn
May they rip
Thstss different. Commercial aircraft pilots doesnt even look outside...jet fighters do
@3:28 at 11 o'clock you can just begin to see the contrail. The pilot doesn't react until 4:02. Both planes are clearly on exactly the same altitude.
On an IFR flight the pilot is not the one who is supposed to provide traffic separation. It is very fortunate that this pilot was able to assume visual contact with the traffic. Had the flights been on a lower FL and in IMC things might have ended poorly.
French controller, at 1.36, instructs the italian pilot to climb up to 3 6 thousand, and the italian pilot repeat the right instruction and then climb to FL360. Italian pilot tell to Rome that it's flying at FL360 but ground operator is confused by a different altitude indicated by the Charlie mode of transponder (for him altitude it's FL320). After check Rome instruct the pilot to "decent immediately to FL320"...
that wasn't a near miss - it was near HIT!!!
Sadly I've been closer than this to a white 3-Axis Microlight whilst in a PA28. The Microlight was following a river on the wrong side in VFR, and when we were in a head-on situation, instead of breaking right, he broke left as we broke right. Absolute idiot. My instructor and I half expected to hear the Microlight clatter off the bottom of the PA28 as we made an evasive turn. Fun times - that was my first hour lesson! Didn't put me off though as I have 30 hours in C172, SR22 G3 GTS and PA28, but sadly money is now too tight to continue.
You are THE FIRST PERSON to use that George Carlin quote. THE VERY FIRST FUCKING PERSON. Pat yourself on your back for your originality.
Settle down, George.
At that speed, that was 1/10 of a second from a midair.
RIP G. Carlin.
I hear you my friend, honestly ive not gone flying on a plane for sometime but when people make mistakes like that it can end up costing lives. Thankfully this pilot seen what was up and quickly moved before they got any closer. But be you Russain pilot those who take people from one side of the world to the other i have a lot of respect for them, and i thank you for that.. You have a friend in me, With love from America take care.
although they were close, they were not on a collision course. the reason you know is because the oncoming jet was MOVING relative to the cockpit view. Its the planes that dont appear to be moving across your field of view that are coming right at you.
Marc that is only true for perfect head-on convergence. Most mid-air collisions involve closing vectors other than 180 degrees, which appear as lateral movement.
william i thought about your comment and still think that an aircraft heading straight for you will always appear to not be moving with respect to your windscreen. you are both moving against the sky background yes, but to a pilot an aircraft on collision coirse could look like a bug on the window to him/her it seems to me.
marc dantonio Marc, you are correct in that when two planes are on opposite headings ( example: 180 and 360, i.e. due south and due north) going straight at each other they would grow larger visually but they wouldn't move left or right on the windscreen. Even so, most collisions occur when the aircraft are coming together from non-opposing angles. Think of it like the corner of a triangle: two planes are flying to a single point in time/space from different angles. In these cases they would in fact move across the windscreen, just like in the video.
Hi William... If you think about that very example you give however, the aircraft by definition cant appear to be moving relative to each other on their windscreens. If they were moving, then there just doesnt seem to be a condition where there can be a collision. The legs of the triangle would not converge to a point.
marc dantonio You would be correct only if the two planes were travelling at the exact same speed in straight level flight. If the speeds were different, say between an airliner and a fighter jet, you would be incorrect. In my first example (opposite headings) the speed is irrelevant.
Im italian so i can tell you from the audio com he had with the other jet pilot in his formation: he had NOT seen the plane at all. the other pilot in formation actually saw it before the one on camera saw it. And afterwards he says, "I thought he was 1000 ft below but he wasnt"
Also 20 sec before contact, the other pilot goes "Whats that on the radar"
at 3:50
+bluekeet Thank you.
+bluekeet-Yes, Thank you.
5:35 onwards - he's been flying 4000ft higher than clearance up until this point. The fact that he nearly hit an airliner, didn't (seem to) notify the controller of this immediately, and continued to fly at that altitude for another 2 minutes is f-ing mind-boggling.
1:36 they were cleared to FL360 by the first controller. Seems like a miscommunication between the controllers + transponder problems
He was cleared to FL 360 (0:09) and he is flying FL 360, where is this 4,000ft you're talking about coming from...?
You know nothing if you think any pilots are at fault here
I'm surprised the pilot did not report that near miss! I'd be spitting feathers at the controller and want to make sure there is not more conflicting traffic coming my way! (Always tough when co-ordinating military and civilian ops, -SO BE SUSPICIOUS AND ULTRA CAUTIOUS at all times)
you can bet they reported it.
True to an extent, provided the transponder gives the appropriate information. Some military aircraft transponders for example do not provide any altitude information, meaning they set off a TCAS alert, but are unable to provide any conflict resolution information. They go off even if there is over 10,000ft vertical separation.
Depends how the military transponder is set up as well.
One result from geometry, many years ago, said that your bearing to another craft on a collision course is constant. The airliner was approaching but the bearing was changing. When he reacted, the airliner was basically past him. It would have gotten much larger, much faster on a collision course. I agree that part of the HD display hid the contrail on the B&W recording but should have been easily visible to him in color.
in general there are rules regarding altitudes that east bound flights can use, vs altitudes for westbound flights, above FL290 these rules have a 1000 foot seperation . this jet is flying at a heading of 160 which should follow eastbound rules, he should be at either FL350 FL 370 or FL390, not FL360, which is a westbound rule. ATC is being negligent . for more information look up RVSM airspace.
The airliner appears on the right at 3:16 but is hidden under the horizon line on the HUD display
About 10 years ago, I was on a 777 and the plane was starting to descend towards Arlanda airport.. I was sitting on the right and looking out, suddenly I saw a small jet (looked like business jet) appearing from the front side of the plane and then passing by so fast on the right -- that jet was on the same altitude of the 777 I was on. A few mins after that the captain said there was a problem with Arlanda airport. The jet flew by no further than 100m I would think on the right hand side of the 777. It was very close
No one cares old man I’m sorry
damn
damn
skip to 3:50
Thanks
Hero
Thankyou!!
Thx. You saved me 3:49 of my life.
@@maxzzzie Thanks.
I noticed the Contrail at 3:15 Upper right. The Pilot then turned the fighter into the path of the jet.
No you didn't. You're looking at FLIR. The pilot, HUD.
He's right you can clearly see it at that point. during the pilots RH turn, you can follow it across the screen to it's 11 o'clock position. It remains hidden behind the atttude indicator.
***** What you see and what the pilot could see are different.
Ok yeah I think I smell what you're stepping in now. I just reread the FLIR statement above. makes more sense now
HeyItsVos its not FLIR, its the recorder that makes it looks like this
Yes, ATC made a mistake - 2 actually. The 1st controller cleared the flight to FL360 before handing off to the 2nd controller, but the 2nd controller thought the flight had only been cleared to FL320. The 2nd controller knew he had oncoming traffic at FL360. The mistakes happened between the 2 controllers - the 1st not knowing FL360 was not ok in the next sector and the 2nd not knowing the flight had been cleared to FL360. That's 2 critical lapses in internal ATC communications.
The F-16 was at 360 Barometric, the tape on the right is Baro unless it has a big R next to it. You can read RDR altitude at the top right (33700)
and it was also at 250kts which is pretty slow up there
I’m glad this pilot had the reaction he did.
3:50 Near miss between fighter and commercial jet
Ok, I might get the fact his radar is turned off, but so is your eye sight! I saw that contrail far away!
+Carlos Maldonado yeah i saw it around 3:18.
+Carlos Maldonado His radar doesn't seems to be turned off. If I transfer my knowledge about other fighter aircraft, the little box you see in the HUD from 2:49 on is a "target designation box" it is crossed out because the respective aircraft returned a positive IFF code which means he identified as "friendly".
These boxes show only up if you have your radar switched on and the target "locked up". He might be in a radar mode though that is called "single target track" where all his radar energy is focused on that very target and he cannot see anything else on the radar screen.
For the eyesight topic: of course the pilot would have most likely seen this guy if he would've been looking. I suppose he was busy with his instruments and only checking the horizon infrequently.
Still an erroneous behavior from all involved pilots and of course the air traffic controllers on the ground in my opinion.
+tomone33 Waypoints. He's fiddling with his navigation computer. Poor situational awareness, especially for a fighter pilot.
pilots are italians. at 4.40 one of them ask to the other: " didn't you see it before?" and he answer:" I was watching it, but i thought that it was 1000 ft down as usual , instead it was at our altitude" ...
He's flying IFR therefore he is on his instruments, he shouldn't need to be looking out. This is all controller error.
Great job ATC!
That's what I call a bad day at the office. The pilot sounds slightly shook-up after that incident.
It’s never a good idea to be within 250-500 feet of another aircraft
WTH was the ATC looking at? Clearly in the same altitude. Good thing it was just out his port side. Had that been had on, I'm not sure if he would have picked up on it. Come to think of it, the targeting system didn't pick up on it... I know it's a civilian aircraft, but you'd think radar would have picked it up and displayed it in his HUD.
BruinsNewf If there is no combat engagement planned, why engage the radar?
The RWR should be on, but a comercial plane has no search radars that would be picked up by it.
So...no, visual is the only way he would have seen it, must have been occupied looking at something else, considering he gets quite spooked by it.
+BruinsNewf If you were paying attention there was a transponder problem. ATC gets altitude information from the transponder.
+Chrinik Radar looked like it was fixed on another craft (if you check about 3:20, you'd see that it was tracking a craft at a lower altitude...could be wrong...)
Cory Ducey I think that´s a waypoint, as the lower left of the HUD shows it´s in NAV mode.
+Chrinik Doesn't matter if you're in NAV mode or not. You can still have a target locked on your radar (at least in most aircrafts you can). Also the fact that the (what I assume it is) target designation box was crossed out in the beginning (which means "friendly" identification via IFF) suggests a radar lock.
Also if you look closely you can see a vertical line in the HUD that moves from left to right. This is the waypoint indication (as in the F15). The pilot has to keep his velocity vector (little circle with 3 lines at the outside) on the vertical line to reach his next waypoint.
That pilot must of been texting while driving.
DRIVING
Do fighter jets have any type of TCAS?
The pilot was probably concentrating on his instruments. And consider this is an infra red camera so the warm contrail from the jet is clearly visible. In reality the jet would have looked just like a small white dot approaching at tremendous speed. Easy to miss in the clouds/background.
Control tower says Go up to 360. So pilot complies and take the aircraft to 360. Control passes pilot over to Rome Control and they fail to tell the pilot to go down to 320 causing a near hit with the commercial jet. Do they have their heads up there butt while eating their pizzas?
4:45 "Io lo vedevo, ma pensavo sai, il solito 1000 piedi sotto" The pilot was able to see it coming, but he was thinking they were at the right assigned altitude, that's why he made a sudden left turn at the last moment. After ATC orders to descend to 32k the pilot gets the thing saying "That's why we've had a close call with them" at 5:58.
I remember the incident where a fighter was harassing a commercial airliner, and the air-ground loop from the airliner said they were getting constant TCAS warnings. Which means that fighters (can) have TCAS. Is it possible this fighter is not TCAS equipped?
Can someone tell what is that clock like thing on bottom right and how the fuel readout works. Btw grt reaction by the pilot and so happy this didnt turned out into something catastrophic.
There's a significant difference in "true airspeed" and "indicated airspeed", especially in high altitudes where the air is thin. Commercial airliners with a cruising speed around Mach 0.82 has an indicated airspeed of around 250 knots "indicated airspeed" at FL360, which is equivalent to about 450 knots "true airspeed". What you see in this video is the indicated airspeed.
KCAS (calibrated). See the C on the left side airspeed ladder
It's italian
It's italian
It’s Italian
It's italian
It's Italian
It's Italian
the guy on radio tells him "It happens to me as well"
anyone know what is the source of that electro-chatter sound throughout the video?
@3:45 you can see the exhaust trail of the commercial flight. @4:00 a near head on collision and the fighter banks left and dives (and swears). The error was that the fighter was mistaken given an altitude of 360 instead of 320, so he was 4000 feet above flight plan.
A comment so old, he couldn’t tag time stamps. Piece of history ⬆️
A few years ago I was flying out of Sea-Tac in Seattle eastbound via United (I think). Somewhere over Nevada while I was chatting with the passenger next to me I peripherally saw a shadow whip past the window across from my aisle. I had a feeling it was a military jet most probably a bit off his route. As I was walking past one of the pilots while unloading - excuse me, deplaning - in D.C., I asked him how close was that, figuring he knew all about it. "Effen close", he said.
woah...
The plane was in Nav mode, you can see the indication on the lower left angle of the HUD. In Air to air mode it could have used its radar to detect the other plane (keeping your radar turned on gives your position away, better rely on the AWACS and turn it on at the last minute), but in normal operations and in civilian airspace it will just rely on guidance from ground control like any other plane. And there's a fair few military airplanes that don't even have a radar.
I dont see the NO RAD on the HUD anywhere so he could've had the radar on but wasn't SOI or maybe he was looking at another menu on the MFD
Thanks saved me 5 minutes :)
I would love to hear them scream in a war time environment with their cool accent...looool
He lost the 737 in the HUD clutter. You as the viewer can see it easily from the video, but not may not have been the case in the cockpit. At those closure speeds, there's not much in the way of enough time to responding to converging traffic
That's just the video flight recorder, not the actual pilot view (the HUD is just a little square in front, the rest of the cockpit is wide open).
@@kewkabe yep, but that video is picking up infrared, so it's easier to see the oncoming plane, and what we'd was seeing for the most part was exhaust heat which he wouldn't have seen with his normal eyes.
What type of plane was the commercial jet
The first controller cleared Brandy41 to FL360, at minute 02:50 Brandy41 communicate to ROMA controller that he is climbing to FL360 and request direct to GIANO. Controller acknowledge and clear them direct. At minute 05:43 same controller request to check altitude and to confirm FL320. Between the two occasions radar was not working? Controller was not seeing Brandy41 at FL360? Something went really wrong in ATC
100% ATC fault. I'm just shocked that it took the pilot so long to see it
military and civil ATC are seperated, it's possible civil ATC simply did not see him on secondary radar (as primary is very rarely used in civil ATC, only for suspected hijackings/noncompliance from the pilot)
they do have transponders on the aircraft that can reply to civil ATC secondary radar but in a lot of cases it isn't used as military wants their operations to be secret, which makes it dangerous for civil aircraft if civil ATC is not alerted of military exercise beforehand.
the responsibility on military-civil aircraft collisions is more on the hands of military ATC as they are the ones that can see both.
Pilots jobs esp if theres no copilot is not to just look at the sky 24/7, this was an IFR flight and in those alot of time is spent monitoring the instruments. Pilots still do regular full scans of the outside but the pilot appeared to have been distracted by a technical issue
3:55 is the real fun
You can actually start to see the contrail as a very thin line above the horizon on the right hand side of the screen at 3:16, then its obscured by the horizon indicating lines on his HUD.
Fighter pilot was probably head down (Looking down at instruments). Does anyone know what type of fighter was involved? The HUD does look similar to that of a F-16.
no ma "che robba è quà nmezzo che sta a passà?" AHAHAH!
That wasnt close, they didnt even trade paint.
we call this near miss in aviation.
Go4Airsoft (Adger) in Alabama we call it "not even close"
I don't understand why people in the comments are talking about the Xponder not working, and the pilot being cleared for FL320. The pilot vernally told both controllers that he was flying at FL360, which is what the first controller told him to do.
You are correct that it is up to the pilot to "see & avoid," which is what he did. But they are flying in controlled airspace which means it is ATC's job to know where these planes are, how fast they are going, and where they are headed and not put them in conflict.
"Che roba è qua in mezzo che sta a passà?" aaahahahaahahah
Lol
I'm not a pilot at all, but was it really that close? it seems like they were wayy far, but obviously i'm wrong?
that's because the camera is zoomed in and isnt showing you the wings and the actual size of the Aircraft behind the cam, if you didn't fly a plane then i guess that when you watch this vid you imagined yourself as a tiny superman thing. But it's Not the case.
Imagine this little " - " as the size of the camera view that you are actually watching and the compare it to the plane i placed as some kind of "example" thingy of what you r not seeing:
✈ -> -
So, yes, lets imagine you understand how close it was now watching it again and taking in consideration the dimensions, makes it feel different.
In the world of aviation, that is very, very close.
Planes need to maintain a distance apart of about 3 miles laterally & 1,000 ft or more vertically; remember that jetliner is traveling over 500 mph & cannot turn on a dime like the fighter. At that speed your closing time is ridiculously fast, especially head on. They were insanely close.
commercial jets are not made to do high speed roll outs like the fighter did... The fighter did a awesome job of rolling out and getting back quickly so nothing else can happen.
Movies make it seem like after you get up there then you can kick your feet up and do some top gun tricks and then party like its 1999... to bad there are traffic lanes for planes and like over reno we have 10 planes at 30k at a time and they need to make sure all east/west doesn't hit north south. watch flight radar and see how many planes are clustered in areas like nor cal etc.
This if VERY close by aviation standards, you never ever get that close, this is not rush hour bumper to bumper traffic or something. However it does look like they were most probably set to miss anyway.
The airliner comes into view at 3:15 at the right top corner of the screen. Does anyone know why they didn't change course at that point?
Holy crap that looked close. Not sure about the size of the aircraft and the viewpoint, but if he wouldn't have rolled it looked like they could have collided.
Flying with his instruments is no excuse---he still needs to look around---and specially in front---.
This pilot is blind as a bat in daylight.
there's a reason that you're not allowed to fly VFR above FL180. You can see the contrail clearly because it's a FLIR camera. The pilots are going so fast that visual contact with the naked eye is going to be made only seconds before either crossing paths or crashing. The controllers failed to properly coordinate the handoff, or they missed traffic call. Anything above 18,000 feet (unless it's SVFR, is going to be on the controller's shoulders)
The flight was cleared to level 360 by the French controller, Rome Control took over and asked the leader to recycle the squak, probably he was with his head inside setting the new code. The wingman was looking out and called traffic to his leader, that is when he broke left, The flight was at the correct assigned level, probably the French and Italian controller screwed up somewhere and not the pilots. It is always interesting to see how many arm chair pilots are on the internet, giving useless information from the depths of their aviation ignorance...that, plus all the stupid and ignorant people who generally make poor comments like Mr. Tongate for example.
P.S.
...why don't you go pound some sand meanwhile!?!?!?
+J Day
No, just pointing out some facts...but with your comment you just confirmed my theory, thanks.
Thank you for stating (again) the obvious, the pilot indeed had more than one thing to do as I stated in my first post...try and read carefully before jumping to conclusions next time.
The armchair pilot and idiot was specificaly referred to the "gentelman" who made sarcastic and inappropriate comments to the nationality of the pilot, as if that was the cause of the mishap. I don't consider myself an expert and honestly couldn't care less what your opinion is, I certainly know my facts and talk through a certain degree of knowledge but I am not so sure about yourself. Having been "around" pilots certainly doesn't qualifiy you as one and certainly doesn't make you an expert either.
I could also reply to your insult (egoistical jerk) with something that matches your cultural level but I rather remain in silence knowing that you probably get that most of the times anyway....and not only when you're around pilots.
Have a great day!
Enrico Angelini You prove your own theory, then you point at others with a shit stained finger. That's funny.
Does military technology block commercial planes from receiving the aircraft as a target on the commercial plane's radar?
Anyone know the average distance a pilots eyes would be above the graphic display? And if he was flying into a rising or setting sun?
3:57 Incident
Not even close. 70 meters at least
in the sky, that is damn close
Dackster1994 Exactly, especially when jets typically close the distance of two football fields in a second. 70 meters is nothing when you can close that in a fraction of a second.
In the sky they should be at least 500 feet between each airplane
Anas saleh That's like nothing still.
Anas saleh 1000 feet is the reduced separation between aircraft, and that's with certified aircraft. 2000 feet is the normal separation between aircraft.
Excellent remark sir, thumbs up! :)
Where is that near-miss at I missed it
Berlusconi flying the comercial aircraft with lolitas on board
For the Americans ... do you remember the massacre of Cermis? So avoid unnecessary comments on Italian Aviation... Thanks :)
bla bla bla
Srijan Bhattarai Vaffanculo
Blaaaaa blaaaaa blaaaaaaa fat hot dog man... ahahah
Failing to see 2 or 3 or whatever inch thick cable at several hundred miles per hour is a far cry from completely missing a COMMERCIAL JET for ALMOST A MINUTE (pops on screen at 3:15)! It's laughable to call an aircraft incident a "massacre".
But the Italian legal system has been showing itself to be a joke as well, what with geologist convictions and all...
whybag lol my point exactly
@sebatianize In VMC it is a pilot's responsibility to remain well clear of conflicting traffic. The controller, at most, shares responsibility for deconfliction. It doesn't matter if this pilot was under IFR; if the weather allows him to see other jets, he is responsible for clearing for them and avoiding them.
Can the 2 aircrafts talk to each others just after the meet?
you can see coming all tha way.....he isnt even looking, and he didnt even dodge the jet......was a close call/nearmiss.....and the pilot sucks....
That pilot is far too relaxed......
djunior874 I agree on that...when the life of so many people is at stake ... he really had his head in the clouds...
+djunior874 He was not. He started swearing and even some curse to God because that was way to close. You'd never hear pilots fall into panic, they're trained to stay focused.
I would translate but if i say you "god dog" i don't think that would make any sense for you.
sh0ckv3l I mean before he saw the other plane. He should have been more alert.
Did he not see the contrail? I mean it’s a lot easier for someone after the fact saying this. The contrail looks very obvious on the video but I wonder if it looked different in the air
Yes, mode 3C actually (mode 3 with altitude reporting). As i saied before it should get TA (traffic advisory) but they could not get descend or climb message. TA should be enough to advice pilot.
TCAS maybe is expensive, but its required in all airliners now (FAA directive).
auhauhaua one pilot is from rome!!!! Aò sta a passà un aeroplano in mezzo a noi...tipical slang
Very unprofessional from all involved. The pilot should have spotted it sooner, it's not good to forget to use your eyes while flying, it isn't all about instruments.
They saw it but one of them says that he taught it was 1.000 ft under, not on the same level. There were a misanderstooding with the ATC about the correct flight level
Maybe they can eyeball it better out of the cockpit but on the screen the GUI overlay is just blocking the horizon , wasn't even sure it's a vapor trail till it started moving across.
Brian LO
Yes I counted about 18 seconds from the sight of the vapor trail. The GUI did get in the way, I agree.
hey kenfo. if you saw two planes in the sky almost collide would you say they nearly hit or they nearly missed. when they dont crash it is a near hit.
You can hear the controller ask the pilot to check his mode c transponder, then give him a new squawk. I wonder if the controller was having issues tracking the fighter or was it having issues with it's transponder? When he was given the new squawk you can already see the airliner's contrails. The pilot was probably heads down to punch in the new code and therefore late taking action. You also hear he was not radar contact until after the near collision.
It's a near hit... A near miss would be colliding,I never understood this backassed terminology.
+Kyle Greenough Yeah, English can be confusing, too many ways to interpret. By saying near miss, they could also mean that it was a miss but was near(by) the other plane. Near hit meaning they were near hitting it. Both kind of work.
+Kyle Greenough A near miss and near hit mean the same thing, a near miss isn't colliding as that would be called a collision. You can't have a near miss and a collision at the same time
+Kyle Greenough Near miss means a narrowly avoided collision. I know English can be hard at times but come on.
+Kyle Greenough near=(very close)
I agree with you, but there is another explanation - a near miss is not English, it's American which is why the logic is so distorted. LOL.
So many armchair pilots here...sad you have the right to speak...
+mattfgln They're all former USAF or RAF elite wingmen, so they know it better.
I am not a pilot and I confess that I do not have any understanding of aviation. I wouldn't have written anything at all below this video - but reading your comment I felt an urgent need to do so... :-) just for fun...
Sorry. Hope I don't hurt somebody's feelings
even i saw it coming! where's the warning /collision voice?
at 0:28 did he get buddy spiked or did he do the buddy spiking, im guessing he locked to a friendly? but i heard no warning of him getting locked or doing the locking, anyone know the answer of what was going on here?
Italian pilots
The f 16s where cleared to 360 by the previous controller, they checked in with Roma without reporting their level while their mode C was not working.. the pilot was probably head down resetting it, wingy saw the airliner but did not believe what he saw enough to tell lead to break left earlier , but he advised him nonetheless and avoided collision...so as usual a long sequence of chained events, and btw, if the IFF was working the liner would have had a TCAS res. and btw gabe321 you are a moron.
frosmini
2:52, he tells Roma control he is FL360. If the controller was unsure of their position due to the transponder being turned off, he should have moved them to a safe level. Doesn't seem to me that the pilots did much wrong. Italian control is awful but we all knew that already!
frosmini How am I a moron?
Miles Harrison
Why is Italian ATC awful? Do they have a poor reputation?
Very much so, they can not understand normal English and only understand precise standard phraseology. Normally this is OK but occasionally, you need to make a complicated request. They get far too excited and impassioned about the smallest thing and get stroppy if you don't understand them the first time. Quite unprofessional. Some are great but for the most part, they make life difficult.
Too much pasta...
Yeah it was probably on his helmet so he couldn't see the plane.
is an ATC error
where does it show indicated speed on this display?, I know the altimeter is on the right reading 285 290 and whatnot
+derek wall Airspeed is left side, he is smashing 250kts riding the carrot for most of the vid.
Did he turn to avoid the jet wash behind the commercial jet or was it closer than it seemed? I would also just being scared shitless....