TFS: Coil Per Cylinder Ignition Upgrade
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ย. 2017
- Upgrading your dual cylinder coil packs to signle Coil Per Cylinder (CPC) systems is relatively easy depending on your engine and ignition system. In this episode, Justin the Fabricator takes a 4G93 Mitsubishi and converts it to a CPC ignition system while keeping the waste spark ignition in tact.
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It is interesting to see a 4g93 on such a big channel.. I thought these are almost nonexistent on TH-cam. I built a 4g92 completely custom turbo but I think there is one such build per 1000 off the shelf Honda turbo kit. 😁
Any tips on how to turbo it any dose and don'ts
How is your 4g92 engine holding on? I heard it's super weak and destroys itself fast with any kind of boost
I really love all the non-evo mitsubishi stuff on this channel
Don't pay attention to the keyboard "experts". There's nothing wrong with a crimp connector installed properly and sealed with shrinkwrap. I've gotten into the habit of using solder and shrinkwrap but still use crimp connectors when soldering isn't applicable. Lol, I still come across old repairs on customer cars where the wires were twisted then a mile of tape applied, mind boggling!! Nice upgrade and looks great.
Love it! Definitely going to do this on my 4g93 now.
I've been watching quite a few of your videos on TIG welding and love them! You have helped me improve my skills with some of your tips while i was fabricating and welding up my stainless exhaust system and some v-band's i did last week. Appreciate your no bs approach that's what i like the most.
I have a 4G93 engine also in my Lancer that i am adding a bit of timing to and think this would help very much with stability and spark strength and reduce some minute knock i get some times.
What coils are those? Don't remember you mentioning because i would really like to do the same upgrade soon as i know what coils pack has the right height and electrical specs etc.
This also works for the 3g eclipse 4g64 sohc as well. I used 2 extra coil plug connectors from a j yard 4g64 and used 4g eclipse gt 4 coil plugs. Works perfectly
Needed this info, no one’s saying where tf to get compatible coils from
@@K7Nation im glad this info helps you out. If you have any more questions. You can search me up on fb. Victor montanez
Am so happy i found you’re channel
I’m thinking of doing this to my 5vzfe 3.4L Toyota. I’d probably drill hole’s through the valve cover, install countersunk head M6 studs, and fab three spacers for it. I already have the coil packs and a full set of six connectors for the coils I got on amazoo for $32 a set of three, ( they’re great by the way!) so all I need is the time to do it.
So how do you select new coils? Like which oem coils should you go with? Length? Does oem different coils give more of less spark? (Since it’s a coil inside, I’m assuming depending on how the coil is wound inside the discharge could be greater or less...?)
I would have had to redo the first three to match the last one that had to be clocked. :P
Excellent video , Question : Can you post the part number of the Ignition coil , or the car where it come from ? I wish to have the same set up as you have in the video
what are the coils and connectors you used and where can i order them?
More mitsy video please the car looks awesome
I'm looking into doing the same to my mitsubishi lancer 2007 4g94 coil on plug what coils do you advise me using thanks for your help
Is there a way to build a piece that plugs into the old wiring harness rather than cutting into it?
So.... which coil packs do you end up using? I see the ones you changed to doesn’t have the wasted spark outlet plug
Have you done a wasted system conversion on like a 97 toyota 3.4l v6 4runner?
Something cool to do if your bored. The other guide to this said it was somewhat smoother in higher rpms.
thanks man you are a life saver
Planning a diy for my 4efte ep82 toyota. You might have a diagram for it. Thanks
Great video
Have you tried a 2 ignition coil system on a conventional carbureted engine?
can some one guide me on how can i do a coil on plug for my 4g92 that has a distributor.
does it have to upgrade the distributor to give more stable spark on those CPC?
Does it work for any type old car? Like the corolla 1996?
great job
that was a neat job...and I do agree with you that in the engine bay, crimping and heat shrinks are better than soldering. Have had several failures due to broken soldering connection.
Btw, you mention in your video about programming. What do you mean by that? Does it mean that we need to reprogram the ECU to recognize the new setup.
Please explain, since I plan to do the same mod to my car. Cheers.
The system won’t see the extra coil, but it may make it harder for the ECU to detect problems accurately because the weak side of the pairs of cylinders is mapped out in the ECU as the plugs without a coil pack.
I have a 4g18 am in Jamaica and i want to build it , i see videos where they swab the 4g18 single cam for 4g15 DOHC does that add more power or the single 4g18 cam is more power ?
Is there any improvement on performance?
Where , what did you get the coils off of? I'm interested in doing this! Very much agree with your the ory one coil two cylinders is robbing power
Hey man im doing this to my lancer now to prep for dohc swap and im using the 4g69 ones out of the ralliart or the eclipse
Hi love the modification and love the detail into the fabrication. What coil did you use ?
@3:13 the part number is visible. its fk0278 06 - 12 eclipse coilpack
Hi bro. I have same engine 4g18 2000 model. but it's very slow and no power wht should i do. And can I put 4g9 head on 4g18 block?
Never new that..thanks
hey Merrill if you see the comment I have issue when buying the coil I bought them from ebay I put the info of the outlander who has 4g69 but the ones I get won't work was too short to touch the spark plug also I have a 97 with metal ecu not MD or mr ecu and I don't get any spark could you make a how to video about wiring step by step this coils or add the info on description 😊 it's biggdowz from mpf
what type of coil packs did you use...????
What kind of coils or any car
Hi, where can you buy said bolt spacers/sleeves? I've been looking for that for a long time but with no luck.
Pr3dator SvK I bought them all at a hardware store.
The Fabrication Series They didn't have any in specialized hardware store over here. Does it have DIN number?
can you do that also in 4g18 engine of lancer cedia 2008.
Nice video
Is this aplication is oke for the stock ECU???
Can’t help noticing you tig welded without gloves. Last time I did that I got peeling fingers... great mod I might try it on my car.
revb0 This is actually old footage. I've never had my fingers sun burn or peel, but I've also never welded without gloves at high amperage. Everything in this vid is low amperage and it was shot before I decided to wear gloves with everything I did.
Which coil packs do I buy to do this ??
The only issue I see with this set up is if you were to use 2 big racing coils I'd wonder if the pcm ignition coil driver could handle the extra amperage seeing as your taxing it now making it run 2 coils vs 1.
nick wheaton The ECU (in this case) is nothing more than a switch. The coils are individually transistorized which draw power form a different source. If they were large "dumb" coils, there would probably be a bit more worry.
Was it hard to find a diagram on the wiring see what goes what to each coil trying this on a Miata thanks
Did you do the upgrade ..do you have a wiring diagram...
My 77 GS 7-10 is getting an upgrade :-)
Without adding a booster box, everything I have read leads me to believe doing what you just did actually results in a weaker spark due to the coils not having enough dwell time between firing since they're still firing in the waste spark configuration. Where as the factory setup was designed with that in mind. *shrug* my car's only make 340whp though and is fine on the factory DSM ignition.
Mean Man There's a lot of misconception out there about this kind of stuff haha. Waste spark has nothing to do with it.
Could you expand on it further? Perhaps in a future video? Also I love your videos, I'm also a TIG welder, thanks to your channel I have actually challenged myself to push my skills further, from just doing something like the tornado deal with filler wire to over the course of a week or so when the shop was slow I made a hollow human figure complete with santa hat all out of .035 filler wire. i.imgur.com/nzkxAR9.jpg so please keep it up!
Evo guys do this all the time and push a ton of power. I've also done it with this exact setup making around 450whp and haven't had an issue till this day
COPs now operate fine down to as little as 2.5ms dwell as I understand. Given it's wasted spark, each COP is firing once for every full crank rotation. At say 8000rpm works out to be a firing spark every 7.5ms. Subtract the spark duration of say 2.5ms and you're left with 5ms for dwell
Does the motor is stock to upgrade the coils in 4
Can you send me the parts list for the car
Planning on doing this upgrade. What coil packs did you use in this conversion?
I'm using the 4g69 ralliart ones
Did you do it ...how did it work out ..more performance..??
@@jerryking1434 yes i used some Honda coil packs. It worked well, not like a turbo upgrade lol. But the engine response when you hop on the throttle is noticeable
What type of coils are those?
Que tipo de coil usaste para ese prollecto o de que auto eran
Hi I wanted to ask from what model you were using the coils?
I try this but current only firing cylinder 2&3
I have engine 4g18. I have use for you.part coil use ?
Hi, of what engine are the coils? I have a 4g94 and I like to do this work.
4g69
So all 4 coils have 3 wires going to them?
Why all the Fashion questions? Is this Hot Rod?
Do you have a wire diagram for this?
How to delete the wast sparks when you turn the 2 coil into 4 coil
Bro ..
Ur car using equal lengths header?
Does this actually increase horsepower on a dyne or does the car not misfire, is there a measurable difference? Very interesting to see the solution to this problem, I would have thought the coil wouldn't be able to recover fast enough on a wasted spark ignition to fire again and that's what would cause the misfire, not the path of least resistance. Thanks for the explanation. Let us know how it works
Thomas Cahill It does add a little bit on it's own, but it's not a massive difference. It's more aimed at supporting future mods and tuning to actually create more power.
Which car or engine coil you are useing
Can it worls on the 4g18
What size shoulder bolt?
Bro i just found n subscribed your channel..i haf a problem..i use a 4g18..originally wasted spark ..so i put the k20 ignition coils..at idle its superb ..but when u switch on the air cond n lights..it starts to misfire..even when u drive..1-2-3-4-5 is ok..but wen u brake n downshift to second..it start jerking wen u accelerate..pls help
Wat coils yuh using
Do you have video about turboing 4g9x?
I don't.
Wat Coils u use
Hey whst coils packs r they
Very informative video! Would this work for the 4g15 engine? I happen to get a great deal on the coils from an 05 Galant...
Jondoe Harris You need something to power them since the 4G15 uses a distributor. You can change the ECU and harness to the 4G93 and use the distributor as the signal and fire COP's with it. It's a lot of work, but can be done.
nice job can it affect ecu system?
Yes but only if the ecu is triggering the coils by ground side switching unless it has a separate igniter/coil module (that'll get damaged instead) depends mainly on the inductance change by the coils being wired in parallel or series and you dont change the other qualities of what make up the coil dwell time; the resistance, current, and voltage. Not included the double amounts of high voltage back spikes, decreasing life span of the circuits.
What coil you use?
Hi, I'm from Chile and I have a 4G92 lancer engine and I would like to set up independent coils that you used to make those upgrades.
If your engine use distributor. This means your ecu have only 1 ecu ignition output signal to drive Ignition Transistor.
With this setup or conversion. You need ECU that have 2 ignition output signal to drive 2 COP at a time.
I'm tempted to design electronic circuit to convert ecu single ignition into dual ignition output signal to have this 4 COP conversion using ECU code 7043. I need to gather more data if this will be possible.
Going to attempt doing this to a 4 cylinder motorcycle engine...
There is no sale?
What is the name of the green color? Is is powder coated or paint ?
solid2green it's a custom paint mix.
Where did you get that strut bar ?
He has made it
Is the coil driver (in the ECM) capable of driving two coils at once? Or is it now overloaded and doomed to early failure?
thats what Im saying considering the impedance has now been altered the factory coils driven by the ecu makes it have to power double the load.
The dry fire load is quite small and as a result I would guess that it makes little to no difference as far as “load” is concerned. I would be more concerned about impedance. Any time you wire anything in parallel you decrease resistance in the overall circuit which could cause an over current condition in that coil circuit. From what I remember most coil over plug setups have 3 wire setups, one wire being a 12v, one being ground, and the other being the trigger which is controlled by the ECM. The load more than likely does not have anything to do with the ECM. A wiring diagram would tell us that.
Long story short, this setup is probably as reliable as OEM.
Tom: A quick look back at the video when he is wiring it back up and it appears you are correct. They are three wire coils so my bad, No extra load on the coil (current) driver. (but twice the load on the ground and supply wires - no big deal I guess). I'll assume the trigger driver should have no issues with two coils. Interesting idea. Actual performance gain ??
These are transistor coils. The ECU is nothing more than a signal to them. The power to the coils is from a switched source. If they were standard coils, it would be a problem.
Good info , so it just draws 12v from the electrical system and the ECU just sends the pulse to it commanding to spark.... Gotchya! Makes sense in that case it's really no big deal at all then if it's just a signal I suppose. For some reason I thought the ECU drove the coils LOL
I'm thinking of doing the upgrade and want to know which cable plugs and coils should I buy.
He's using the coils from the 4g69 engine. The 04-06 lancer ralliart and 06-12 eclipse use them. The connector is the same for both the 4g93, 4g94 and the 4g69.
@@gcvalenz01 ty very much.
In my case, the coilpack is 1 single unit. it still uses the wasted spark system but im wondering what the best way to identify the wires would be, i cant simply trace them as there hidden inside this pack. i believe the loom has 5 pins going in (4 cylinder) thanks for any advise :)
I would love to do this to my 4g94. Are you using the same coil wires as stock or did you purchase a different set? If so which ones?
I wanna know too. Can’t find what he used 😢
So after extended research and joining forums. You splice and soldier the wires together . There is no kit for this conversion. Unfortunately never got to try it as my lancer timing belt popped off .-.
What coils are those from? @fabricationseries
Mike McDonald 4G69
Hi Fabricator! Can I use 2 existing 4G93 coil and add 2 coils? Whats the Pros and Cons of using the 4G93 coils? Need your advice
Paul Rea 4G93 coils power 2 cylinders each. If you add two more coils, you'd also have to add 4 more cylinders.
Thanks! How about I'll gonna disable or not connect any high tension wire on the split port of the 4G93 coil? Just place each coil on plugs and cover the part of the coil that is going to the high tension wire.
Paul Rea You can try but I don't see it as a good solution.
Thanks The Fabricator TFS!
Hi. Did you try this already?
Wait wait wait!!
So all you have to do, is from the coil side, tap in extra wire? And run it to the other side that it dire, and add a connector and a coil pack, and done?!?!.
back to your root mpf
Are there any dynos of before and after? Not this specific car obviously.
Angry Beard Man There's plenty of other cars. I might get this one done some day.
You dont gain any power from doing this. The engine doesnt misfire with the stock coil setup so theres nothing to gain
Opens up potential for more power and minimise power loss at higher rpm
@@Courier103 theres no power loss unless the engine is misfiring which it wont do with stock coils
totally agree whith this
Pls tell me
Will this work for the 4G64?
Yes
I'm gonna be running the 4g69 ones from the 04 ralliart 4g69 is also in the eclipse
So the coils still fire at top of compression stroke and top of exhaust stroke but the ECU only triggers them so they all maintain full power?
Street Freaks Racing Videos They fire exactly the same as before. The ECU is just a signal to trigger the coils.
The Fabrication Series that’s awesome, I was making sure I heard you correctly.
Glad to see the crimps. I've been in numerous debates on soldering on cars, I never solder my harness wires.
I do if in certain situations but never anything high voltage/amperage.
Personally I'd stagger the crimps. Solder can crack from vibration. Good looking mod.
it’s solder not sodder
that makes no sense. if it's still wasted spark....it's still wasted spark. all you did was eliminate one coil splitting off into two. signal is still being sent to two coils and they still both fire at the same time. if any change was experienced it is associated with perhaps the newer coils have more turns on the secondary side compared to the original (given the wire size inside the coils are the same). OR it's all in your head. if the ratio of turns of the primary and secondary are the same between the old and the new coils....it's a wash.
What coils did you use?
He's using the coils from the 4g69 engine. The 04-06 lancer ralliart and 06-12 eclipse use them. The connector is the same for both the 4g93, 4g94 and the 4g69.
Looks like a good way to burn up ignition drivers...
outlander330cc It won't burn the any more than the stock ones would.
It’s only pulsing the low current trigger to ground to make it fire the ecm won’t know anything has changed
One question I have though is I guess the car would need tuning with different dwell times etc or is it insignificant?
My point is that the coils are now wired in parallel, which means the driver in the ECM that is doing the switching is dealing with twice as many amps. I would say the same dwell time would be needed because the coils will both still have the same voltage going to them for the same length of time.
@@outlander330cc this∆∆∆. Yes, the Toyota coils work and they are used all the time for Evo COP systems and the 300C coils are used for the COP DSM systems...but the dwell times are not the same...close, but not the same. The best way to benefit from the Wastespark to COP system is using a CDI in conjunction or using a stand-alone ECU that can adjust the dwell time. It was found that swapping to a COP setup was a slight downgrade to the DSM Wastespark coils and not really an upgrade at all for the Evolution. It just looks nicer lol.
1st
waste of time and effort for no gains
@The Estut Nomad It's not even close to max efficiency.
What coil pack was used