I am a Shulk player and he is really good in advantage but is horrible in disadvantage. But the one thing he struggles with the most is RECOVERY he is easily edge guarded and his recovery is very exploitable. Also, he is just cooked if you catch him without his Monado arts you’re just dead. He relies to much on him gimick
@@King90983 Also shulk player, if you are burning jump for anything but recovery and getting off of/bypassing ledge you are wrong. But yes getting juggled with no jump he is very, very limited
I agree, Peach is VERY underrated. A lot of people that don't play Peach / lower level Peaches don't think she is worth the effort or loses way more MUs than she really does. But once you put in the time, she is incredibly rewarding as we can see with Samsora, MuteAce, Umeki, Yalmanac, etc.
I'm a zelda main, and i think she's heavily underrated and under represented. more zeldas than just Ven at high level play would do wonders for how she's percieved. zelda also has some interesting matchups with steve and kazuya, because of her projectiles and ability to box in their delayed range
I feel like being consistent is the killer of all of these potential bests. Why learn super technical, arthritis-inducing play and character-specific tech when you can pick up someone like joker with consistent and easy (albeit boring) 0-death routes that take 1/10th of the inputs with more forgiving timing and no frame-perfect inputs?
Actually with Kazuya, it's not even his advantage state that's good, it's JUST the damage. He doesn't have the jumpsquat or vertical mobility to really keep someone trapped unless the interaction's at close range or close to the stage. Like, maybe I'm biased because I play Cloud, but Kazuya's advantage state is very tame if you're not mid-combo or mid-string.
It's crazy to me that people detract from Pikachu. I can understand why Japan underrates Pika, since they don't have any top-level representatives, but it boggles my mind that folks will say that Pikachu doesn't have any results when ShinyMark won Smash Factor 11 four months ago. He even beat Maister and Gackt on that run, both of whom main Pika's two worst matchups.
Oh my good lord, completely agree with all your takes. Pika, Joker, and Peach all busted. And Shulk & Sheik are inconsistent af. Shulk has bad framedata while universal jump squat killed shiek in this game. Her framedata doesn’t matter, everyone is too close to her framedata that it’s not special enough. Lastly, if someone is complaining about kaz in 2024. Play lvl 9 kaz bot and spam projectiles. It’s hard to not win. Character is just polarizing not broken.
Honestly, if this game goes as long as melee (probably not, although maybe). Peach has all the tools to win every game. Peach is a melee character in ultimate.
Im picking up shulk because i felt extremely carried when i was playing terry. I can say for certain shulk is not the theory top teir that people make him out to be. His frame data is atrocious, and all his moves are very laggy. Because of this, you can only really play shulk by using Nair in neutral, or you can just play stray hits for the entire match. Shulk is essentially just ike if you took away his damage and kill power and replaced it with manado arts. If you play shulk using all of the tech then hes probably at the bottom of high teir but for anyone who doesn't want to be that commited, hes pretty much a mid teir.
Respectfully, I'm gonna tell you what a state PR player told me in regards to Sheik: "If you think Sheik can't kill reliably, it just means you're ass at the game."
Oh I think Sheik can kill reliably She just doesn't kill like Steve, Aegis, G&W, Sonic, Luigi, Joker, etc. can And has to setup to do it instead of having a broken raw move to do it while other characters have multiple I still think Sheik is great! but best in the game or close to it? nah
@@TavaresSSB i think she kills a lot easier than sonic and gnw tbh and she doesnt have to rely on arsene or pyra the way joker and mythra do. i feel like sheik players should play campier lowkey. she has basically no weaknesses and an insane recovery, neutral, combo game, safe moves that start insane combos that kill well, insane ledgetrapping edgeguarding disadvantage. her not being able to kill is a myth she has some of the best edgeguarding in the game, down tilt up air nair all combo into kill moves back air can kill. i dont think shes top 5 but top 10 maybe top 15.
As a former state PR player, I think sheik can't kill reliably. She has kill setups and kill confirms, but those mostly take setup, execution, some kind of crazy read, whereas many characters just have a crazy raw killing Bair, usmash oos, kill throw, some kind of consistent, deadly threat to your stock that they can just pull out without much setup. Sheik *can* kill, but it would be obtuse to pretend she's not noticeably worse at it than her contemporaries
That's just what they say to make themselves feel superior. Sheik is fun and all, but there's no sense in playing a character that needs to work twice as hard as who they're fighting most of the time. People need to be more honest to realize that.
Yeah idk i think the only reason shulk players arent everywhere rn is because hes boring. Hes not too fun to play as. He is for a bit but to the extent of maining him is a pain and boring. But in this meta more then ever, he will be great imo
Shiek I can see being top 10 but you have to play very optimally, and rn her best players are pretty inactive. I think if webjp attendeded more he could be top 20 in the world
I agree to a certain point that Kazuya isn't a top 3 character as people said he was, I think his advantage is stupid but people progressively learned the matchup and learned to exploit the things he sucks at. So yeah, I wrote all this to say that I agree.
@manuelnaranjo7796 yeah, also people still think that kazuya can kill you at 0 anywhere. They don't know that the TRUE 0TD combos only works on flat stages and in some characters. It's not like Luigi lmao. Against people who actually have the same or better skill than you and know very very well the mu. It's basically impossible to get a 0TD, it's one of the reasons why you don't see 0TDs at top level
You say pikachu underrated until you notice how much Esam glazes him
Its true its true, Pikachu mains will never not believe in him
@ gotta get more results for me to believe he’s top 5
I feel like Peach is underrated too
But many People say the DLC Chars are most of the time better than her or beat her so she has a hard time
I can agree that DLC 2 has a good time, but she's still top tier in my eyes because of her strengths
Peach is good in my opinion but you got to be mechanically good with her
I think she’s harder than ice climbers mechanically , and I play both
Shulk's problem ever since Smash 4 was always his frame data, and in Ultimate it's still horrendous despite the buffs.
I am a Shulk player and he is really good in advantage but is horrible in disadvantage. But the one thing he struggles with the most is RECOVERY he is easily edge guarded and his recovery is very exploitable. Also, he is just cooked if you catch him without his Monado arts you’re just dead. He relies to much on him gimick
@@King90983 Also shulk player, if you are burning jump for anything but recovery and getting off of/bypassing ledge you are wrong. But yes getting juggled with no jump he is very, very limited
Diddy Kong feels criminally underrated, more reps would work wonders for him. Lucas also is a little underrated.
I agree, Peach is VERY underrated. A lot of people that don't play Peach / lower level Peaches don't think she is worth the effort or loses way more MUs than she really does. But once you put in the time, she is incredibly rewarding as we can see with Samsora, MuteAce, Umeki, Yalmanac, etc.
As a Shulk main I agree with everything you said. It’s not gonna stop me from trying to be good with him, though.
100% still likely for a good shulk to do really well. A shulk could definitely win a major
Fully agree on all of this with exception to Shulk, and even the points you made on Shulk are valid. Great video.
I'm a zelda main, and i think she's heavily underrated and under represented. more zeldas than just Ven at high level play would do wonders for how she's percieved.
zelda also has some interesting matchups with steve and kazuya, because of her projectiles and ability to box in their delayed range
I feel like being consistent is the killer of all of these potential bests. Why learn super technical, arthritis-inducing play and character-specific tech when you can pick up someone like joker with consistent and easy (albeit boring) 0-death routes that take 1/10th of the inputs with more forgiving timing and no frame-perfect inputs?
Actually with Kazuya, it's not even his advantage state that's good, it's JUST the damage. He doesn't have the jumpsquat or vertical mobility to really keep someone trapped unless the interaction's at close range or close to the stage. Like, maybe I'm biased because I play Cloud, but Kazuya's advantage state is very tame if you're not mid-combo or mid-string.
It's crazy to me that people detract from Pikachu. I can understand why Japan underrates Pika, since they don't have any top-level representatives, but it boggles my mind that folks will say that Pikachu doesn't have any results when ShinyMark won Smash Factor 11 four months ago. He even beat Maister and Gackt on that run, both of whom main Pika's two worst matchups.
No wrong take here, well done!
Ike should be here too, especially since he was dropped by first mkleo immediately after day 1 and once joker joined
@@seanfreeman4514 that's a good choice! Was thinking about adding him honestly, might do a follow up video
Oh my good lord, completely agree with all your takes. Pika, Joker, and Peach all busted. And Shulk & Sheik are inconsistent af. Shulk has bad framedata while universal jump squat killed shiek in this game. Her framedata doesn’t matter, everyone is too close to her framedata that it’s not special enough. Lastly, if someone is complaining about kaz in 2024. Play lvl 9 kaz bot and spam projectiles. It’s hard to not win. Character is just polarizing not broken.
PEACH IS TOP 5 TALK TO EM (I’m the bad peach)
True asf
Honestly, if this game goes as long as melee (probably not, although maybe). Peach has all the tools to win every game. Peach is a melee character in ultimate.
Im picking up shulk because i felt extremely carried when i was playing terry. I can say for certain shulk is not the theory top teir that people make him out to be. His frame data is atrocious, and all his moves are very laggy. Because of this, you can only really play shulk by using Nair in neutral, or you can just play stray hits for the entire match.
Shulk is essentially just ike if you took away his damage and kill power and replaced it with manado arts.
If you play shulk using all of the tech then hes probably at the bottom of high teir but for anyone who doesn't want to be that commited, hes pretty much a mid teir.
Respectfully, I'm gonna tell you what a state PR player told me in regards to Sheik:
"If you think Sheik can't kill reliably, it just means you're ass at the game."
Oh I think Sheik can kill reliably
She just doesn't kill like Steve, Aegis, G&W, Sonic, Luigi, Joker, etc. can
And has to setup to do it instead of having a broken raw move to do it while other characters have multiple
I still think Sheik is great! but best in the game or close to it? nah
@@TavaresSSB i think she kills a lot easier than sonic and gnw tbh and she doesnt have to rely on arsene or pyra the way joker and mythra do. i feel like sheik players should play campier lowkey. she has basically no weaknesses and an insane recovery, neutral, combo game, safe moves that start insane combos that kill well, insane ledgetrapping edgeguarding disadvantage. her not being able to kill is a myth she has some of the best edgeguarding in the game, down tilt up air nair all combo into kill moves back air can kill. i dont think shes top 5 but top 10 maybe top 15.
As a former state PR player, I think sheik can't kill reliably. She has kill setups and kill confirms, but those mostly take setup, execution, some kind of crazy read, whereas many characters just have a crazy raw killing Bair, usmash oos, kill throw, some kind of consistent, deadly threat to your stock that they can just pull out without much setup. Sheik *can* kill, but it would be obtuse to pretend she's not noticeably worse at it than her contemporaries
@@StoopedDaDumbig agree. GnW kills can be hard to find if you know the MU against him
That's just what they say to make themselves feel superior. Sheik is fun and all, but there's no sense in playing a character that needs to work twice as hard as who they're fighting most of the time. People need to be more honest to realize that.
Yeah idk i think the only reason shulk players arent everywhere rn is because hes boring. Hes not too fun to play as. He is for a bit but to the extent of maining him is a pain and boring. But in this meta more then ever, he will be great imo
I main Shulk, and as much as I do think he’s boring, I think his campy playstyle is good for the defensive situation of this game.
If Peach didn't destroy your hands when trying to play her optionally, she would be top 5 imo. Aka if Peach players played on boxx
What’s the music during the peach section?
Perry's Dream!
How is shulk disadvantage terrible? He can’t be combo’d
Shiek I can see being top 10 but you have to play very optimally, and rn her best players are pretty inactive. I think if webjp attendeded more he could be top 20 in the world
Who says Sheik is good, she can't even kill lol
She's like ZSS if she sucked even more, Joker has her combos, but then he also has Arsene 😂🎉
EXACTLY
Yeah kaz is overrated
I agree to a certain point that Kazuya isn't a top 3 character as people said he was, I think his advantage is stupid but people progressively learned the matchup and learned to exploit the things he sucks at. So yeah, I wrote all this to say that I agree.
@manuelnaranjo7796 yeah, also people still think that kazuya can kill you at 0 anywhere. They don't know that the TRUE 0TD combos only works on flat stages and in some characters. It's not like Luigi lmao.
Against people who actually have the same or better skill than you and know very very well the mu. It's basically impossible to get a 0TD, it's one of the reasons why you don't see 0TDs at top level
Pichu better :3
You’re buggin, Shulk is buggin