"Range advantage can be thought of as a sort of barometer of how aggressive a player can be in a given spot, in conjunction with other factors such as position and SPR. This is because when we have a range advantage, it means that the probability of us holding a stronger hand is increased. Which in turn means that our opponent should be more likely to fold ... And when our opponent is more prone to fold, this gives our bluffs, and on earlier streets our protection bets, a greater incentive to fire. Which in turn provides cover for our value bets to play aggressively as well."
What a great video. A fantastic little nugget for any newer player to track along in their own software and logic process to help build these ideas and understanding. Excellent
Thanks for the surprising and helpful explanation. Something also caught my eye a little after 3:50. The turn ranges for IP and OOP have nearly equal equity, yet IP is expected to win ~80% of the pot! While I would expect IP to win more than 50% of the pot because of nut advantage, I'm still shocked at how large the equity vs EV gap is in that spot.
Yeah - average equity can be deceiving because it doesn't really tell you much about the actual distribution of hands, which is why we have broken it up into tiers.
Its worth mentioning that in the first hand JTs, K9s etc. are weighted at ...e^-7 or sth similar, which is close to zero. This means that we just dont have these hands in our range in practical terms (or this is a tiny error due to the hand not being solved at 100 percent accuracy). That makes sense of course as were OOP in a 3bet-pot facing a large turn bet on a 3 8 7 5 (rainbow) board. Is there a way to just eliminate these types of almost infinitely low freq. combos from the range? I assume it would be a little bit confusing visually while studying with the tool. As for the second hand: An intuitive explaination would be that on this type of board, if there is a flush draw possible it makes betting small with your overall range less attractive as our opponent will actually be able to meet the MDF because he has a lot of flush draws (more than IP-player). Also further into the game tree he hits more flushes than IP on certain runouts, thus warranting a more cautious approach by IP, not just putting in money with every hand in its range. Now of course this is a generalization and doesnt capture the whole picture of "nut + range advantage or just nut advantage". Also our QT combo has no spade in it so we dont block any FDs. I assume some QTo combos with a spade are betting the flop, especially those with Qs. You come across these check backs with "weak" straight draws quite a bit in a lot of situations. These hands actually lose an 8 % chance of hitting the nut straight on the turn when check-raised - because we will have to fold to a CR. These hands also make decent barreling candidates on future streets if our opponent shows weakness.
I love that you shove and don't know if the solver likes it Welcome to Live Poker - it will never die, it will always be a beautiful place to take money off those who do not know any better
By shoving on that river you (try to) hide your straight. If i was the defender I would put you on a slow played pocket pair over the board since you'd probably almost never do that with a set. If i was holding Jacks, I would not feel very good right now and would include a weird straight combo and fold. You would lose some money if I had a strong preflop hand that just didnt get a favorable board along the way. You would even give Aces a long tanking. I would only shove if you have a very aggressive demeanor which your opponent knows. I would give the chance to the fish to keep betting his over pocket. He'd never call with AK/AQ, so you never lose money here to checking. On the Range Advantage front, this video is essential in understanding hand construction in your mind. It's the most essential poker skill.
Since the river was so strong for my range my concern was that he would check back an overpair. I think the issue with my play IRL is that there were very few natural bluffs in my range, which is probably what caused my opponent to fold his hand which I am guessing was an overpair (after a long tank).
@@JuraIbis ok you're talking NEXT LEVEL fish, I'm talking about the average rec. They won't shove an overpair, but will look you up of you do so yourself. Seriously this is not even controversial.
@@FindingEquilibrium he probably folded a "bad overpair", but still your shove was mandatory. Obviously having bluffs is tough here, but that's besides the point, the point being that the range advantage switched sides, so ip has no incentive to agrress, we gotta go for it.
@@beniolinhox5679 haha i ask every video he releases I am sure he is getting annoyed by the amount of times he is asked this. Personally I can't wait to try it out
Started alpha testing - there are some bugs that need to be worked out, but should be "soon" for real now. Unfortunately I am not a programmer, so I am relying on others to do all of the coding, and I've discovered that developers really do not like prodding.
On the AsJs5d board if you remove the option to check and bet range 1/3. the EV difference is negligible. Range betting in real games will net higher EV due to the simplification of the strategy & also opponents tend to play worse vs 1/3 imo, as player pools generally dnt x/r enough, which is quite easy to exploit. That being said the video does make a nice explanation on range advantage. (If I'm wrong and u care, let me know :D )
What you are referring to is a specific exploit, which is fine, but is not what GTOx is about. The primary function of GTOx is to help people learn approximated GTO strategies. When you remove available actions from the game tree you get further away from "true" GTO and at a certain point, the strategy becomes so simplified it becomes questionable whether you would even want to execute such a strategy since you are essentially playing a node locked game which your opponents are not.
@@FindingEquilibrium I'm referring to the EV differences of strategies when plugged into a sim. in this case I found the difference to be -0.04bb's for me. It Is often the case the simplified solution will be of higher EV. In this particular hand example then yes if we want to min-max vs a toy game, for "true" GTO i would agree
@@sneakytucky Yes, quite often on the flop the EV differences between actions will be close. However it won't be true for every flop, and I don't understand what you mean by the EV of the simplified solution will be higher? You can only lose EV by simplifying solutions. Do you mean "real life" EV? If so, then you are referring to a specific exploit that works for you but may not work for everyone in all pools at all times. We are focused on a "universally" optimal strat that will work in all pools and will be timeless regardless of shifts in trends. Also, when you node lock a strategy the solver will shift strategies in other branches of the game tree to compensate so it's possible that the turn and river strategies in your sim actually deviate from "true" GTO significantly, which again raises the question of whether following those strategies is optimal.
@@FindingEquilibrium What I mean by simplified solution is to provide the sim with only one action on the flop like check only or 1/3 only for example and then looking at the Nash EV's for each player, not the EV of the specific choice it self. Sorry if that wasn't clear " You can only lose EV by simplifying solutions" I'm not sure this is true, there are many instances where removing the option to bet or check will provide higher EV outputs
@@sneakytucky "there are many instances where removing the option to bet or check will provide higher EV outputs". I'm pretty sure you can only increase EV by adding actions. Where are you getting this info from?
Hey, i have a question, does this mean that oop player has often flush draw advantage and when i am ip i should be worried about that and not bet that often, when there is a flush draw?
Hi there,great stufff as usuall.Quick question: Is Nut Advantage defined as a % u win versus opponents NUT RANGE(say defined as TPTK+) OR versus opponents ENTIRE RANGE THX IN ADVANCE
@@FindingEquilibrium It's possible to filter different types of boards in flop aggregated report(connected/disconnected/paired/monotone)? Also the turn/river report is supported?
@@nickandrew1496 Yes, a variety of filters are available. th-cam.com/video/RftxcaR8XvA/w-d-xo.html. Turns and river reports will be available later, but not at launch.
I thought range advantage determined freq %, while nut advantage determined sizing. If that's the case, why does the solver bet small anyhow on boards where it has both? Wouldn't betting often AND large make more sense?
These are all just heuristics we are using that won't apply to every situation. The reality is that no one can predict exactly what the solver will do in every scenario. That being said, I think the sizing depends significantly on how polarized the player is with the nut advantage - i.e. you can have a nut advantage but not be polarized, for example, when you have plenty of middle strength hands in range. In theory, the larger sizes are typically used when one player is polarized (which means he also has the nut advantage) and the other player's range is condensed.
It's like pio except the game tree is automatically created for you from a hand history and the solving is done in the cloud. GTOx.io. Edit: There are actually two modules of GTOx shown in this video , one is a solver, and the other is an aggregated report viewer showing range strategies for 6max 100bb across all flops.
So you're a luckbox chaser from OOP that hit on the river. Show the vid of all the times you chase from OOP and bricked. Highly unlikely you shove then.
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.6 (1/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m05kZ2GDKXg/mqdefault.jpg)
"Range advantage can be thought of as a sort of barometer of how aggressive a player can be in a given spot, in conjunction with other factors such as position and SPR. This is because when we have a range advantage, it means that the probability of us holding a stronger hand is increased. Which in turn means that our opponent should be more likely to fold ... And when our opponent is more prone to fold, this gives our bluffs, and on earlier streets our protection bets, a greater incentive to fire. Which in turn provides cover for our value bets to play aggressively as well."
Very nice example of how seemingly small differences in flop texture can create a big difference in strategy!
What a great video. A fantastic little nugget for any newer player to track along in their own software and logic process to help build these ideas and understanding. Excellent
If Finding Equilibrium is ever at your table, run, hide and cash out.
Thanks for the surprising and helpful explanation. Something also caught my eye a little after 3:50. The turn ranges for IP and OOP have nearly equal equity, yet IP is expected to win ~80% of the pot! While I would expect IP to win more than 50% of the pot because of nut advantage, I'm still shocked at how large the equity vs EV gap is in that spot.
Yeah - average equity can be deceiving because it doesn't really tell you much about the actual distribution of hands, which is why we have broken it up into tiers.
Position grants higher equity realization and since EV = pot * Equity * Equity realization, position directly increases your EV.
Its worth mentioning that in the first hand JTs, K9s etc. are weighted at ...e^-7 or sth similar, which is close to zero. This means that we just dont have these hands in our range in practical terms (or this is a tiny error due to the hand not being solved at 100 percent accuracy). That makes sense of course as were OOP in a 3bet-pot facing a large turn bet on a 3 8 7 5 (rainbow) board. Is there a way to just eliminate these types of almost infinitely low freq. combos from the range? I assume it would be a little bit confusing visually while studying with the tool.
As for the second hand: An intuitive explaination would be that on this type of board, if there is a flush draw possible it makes betting small with your overall range less attractive as our opponent will actually be able to meet the MDF because he has a lot of flush draws (more than IP-player). Also further into the game tree he hits more flushes than IP on certain runouts, thus warranting a more cautious approach by IP, not just putting in money with every hand in its range. Now of course this is a generalization and doesnt capture the whole picture of "nut + range advantage or just nut advantage".
Also our QT combo has no spade in it so we dont block any FDs. I assume some QTo combos with a spade are betting the flop, especially those with Qs. You come across these check backs with "weak" straight draws quite a bit in a lot of situations. These hands actually lose an 8 % chance of hitting the nut straight on the turn when check-raised - because we will have to fold to a CR. These hands also make decent barreling candidates on future streets if our opponent shows weakness.
I'm seeing the light!
Would love more material along this line, that minute differences actually alter strategic direction/preferences!
I love that you shove and don't know if the solver likes it
Welcome to Live Poker - it will never die, it will always be a beautiful place to take money off those who do not know any better
Excellent video; thank you for sharing your hard work.
Very good info and perfectly presented, thank you dude
By shoving on that river you (try to) hide your straight. If i was the defender I would put you on a slow played pocket pair over the board since you'd probably almost never do that with a set. If i was holding Jacks, I would not feel very good right now and would include a weird straight combo and fold. You would lose some money if I had a strong preflop hand that just didnt get a favorable board along the way. You would even give Aces a long tanking. I would only shove if you have a very aggressive demeanor which your opponent knows. I would give the chance to the fish to keep betting his over pocket. He'd never call with AK/AQ, so you never lose money here to checking.
On the Range Advantage front, this video is essential in understanding hand construction in your mind. It's the most essential poker skill.
If he is a fish, checking would be a blunder. He checks back most of his overpairs, but won't fold them if we shove.
Since the river was so strong for my range my concern was that he would check back an overpair. I think the issue with my play IRL is that there were very few natural bluffs in my range, which is probably what caused my opponent to fold his hand which I am guessing was an overpair (after a long tank).
@@fedea82 fish wont check back overpairs they will feel since there are no over cards they are absolutely solid
@@JuraIbis ok you're talking NEXT LEVEL fish, I'm talking about the average rec. They won't shove an overpair, but will look you up of you do so yourself. Seriously this is not even controversial.
@@FindingEquilibrium he probably folded a "bad overpair", but still your shove was mandatory. Obviously having bluffs is tough here, but that's besides the point, the point being that the range advantage switched sides, so ip has no incentive to agrress, we gotta go for it.
What are the chances you sell the gtox blueprint as a standalone product while we wait for the release ?
Any updates on release date?
soon since november
@@beniolinhox5679 haha i ask every video he releases I am sure he is getting annoyed by the amount of times he is asked this. Personally I can't wait to try it out
I was hoping to hear something about it as well, when he was explaining probabilities :D
@@shtcoinmaxi1367 dw I do the same, lol.
Started alpha testing - there are some bugs that need to be worked out, but should be "soon" for real now. Unfortunately I am not a programmer, so I am relying on others to do all of the coding, and I've discovered that developers really do not like prodding.
On the AsJs5d board if you remove the option to check and bet range 1/3. the EV difference is negligible. Range betting in real games will net higher EV due to the simplification of the strategy & also opponents tend to play worse vs 1/3 imo, as player pools generally dnt x/r enough, which is quite easy to exploit.
That being said the video does make a nice explanation on range advantage. (If I'm wrong and u care, let me know :D )
What you are referring to is a specific exploit, which is fine, but is not what GTOx is about. The primary function of GTOx is to help people learn approximated GTO strategies. When you remove available actions from the game tree you get further away from "true" GTO and at a certain point, the strategy becomes so simplified it becomes questionable whether you would even want to execute such a strategy since you are essentially playing a node locked game which your opponents are not.
@@FindingEquilibrium I'm referring to the EV differences of strategies when plugged into a sim. in this case I found the difference to be -0.04bb's for me. It Is often the case the simplified solution will be of higher EV.
In this particular hand example then yes if we want to min-max vs a toy game, for "true" GTO i would agree
@@sneakytucky Yes, quite often on the flop the EV differences between actions will be close. However it won't be true for every flop, and I don't understand what you mean by the EV of the simplified solution will be higher? You can only lose EV by simplifying solutions. Do you mean "real life" EV? If so, then you are referring to a specific exploit that works for you but may not work for everyone in all pools at all times. We are focused on a "universally" optimal strat that will work in all pools and will be timeless regardless of shifts in trends. Also, when you node lock a strategy the solver will shift strategies in other branches of the game tree to compensate so it's possible that the turn and river strategies in your sim actually deviate from "true" GTO significantly, which again raises the question of whether following those strategies is optimal.
@@FindingEquilibrium What I mean by simplified solution is to provide the sim with only one action on the flop like check only or 1/3 only for example and then looking at the Nash EV's for each player, not the EV of the specific choice it self. Sorry if that wasn't clear
" You can only lose EV by simplifying solutions" I'm not sure this is true, there are many instances where removing the option to bet or check will provide higher EV outputs
@@sneakytucky "there are many instances where removing the option to bet or check will provide higher EV outputs". I'm pretty sure you can only increase EV by adding actions. Where are you getting this info from?
Interesting! Thank you!
Hey, i have a question, does this mean that oop player has often flush draw advantage and when i am ip i should be worried about that and not bet that often, when there is a flush draw?
Huh, I almost certainly would’ve used identical range-betting strategies on both boards. I guess that’s one more leak I need to learn to plug
range bet could still be the best strategy due to overfold/underraise . except for nl500+ probably
Hi there,great stufff as usuall.Quick question:
Is Nut Advantage defined as a % u win versus opponents NUT RANGE(say defined as TPTK+) OR versus opponents ENTIRE RANGE
THX IN ADVANCE
I mean your NUT range vs his Nut range or vs his ENTIRE range
At 0:30 you say that the bottom flop is checked nearly 100% of the time, but later on in the Range Action Table it says 37% instead of 89%. Why?
Awesome video ! Are the reports part of the product?
Thanks. Yes, at launch there will be reports for 6max 100bb no ante. Additional reports will be added from time to time.
@@FindingEquilibrium It's possible to filter different types of boards in flop aggregated report(connected/disconnected/paired/monotone)? Also the turn/river report is supported?
@@nickandrew1496 Yes, a variety of filters are available. th-cam.com/video/RftxcaR8XvA/w-d-xo.html. Turns and river reports will be available later, but not at launch.
How about pricing ? Something like 50% instagto, and offer would be sell it like a hot bread :)
Do I even need to say it.... 👑
I thought range advantage determined freq %, while nut advantage determined sizing. If that's the case, why does the solver bet small anyhow on boards where it has both? Wouldn't betting often AND large make more sense?
These are all just heuristics we are using that won't apply to every situation. The reality is that no one can predict exactly what the solver will do in every scenario. That being said, I think the sizing depends significantly on how polarized the player is with the nut advantage - i.e. you can have a nut advantage but not be polarized, for example, when you have plenty of middle strength hands in range. In theory, the larger sizes are typically used when one player is polarized (which means he also has the nut advantage) and the other player's range is condensed.
@@FindingEquilibrium got ya. Thanks for the clear answer :)
I still don't understand this even with your great explanations. I'd love to though.
What is AAo vs AAs?
High-level overview, he said 😂😂😂
0:35 *dramatic* difference in check % announced
board 1 : check 4 %
board 2 : check 89 %
6:23 *big* difference in check % displayed
board 1 : check 5.51 %
board 2 : check 37.16 %
why is that ?
Second case is the check % for the entire range. The first case is the check % of QTo specifically, I think.
@@uednva ah yes, I now realize QTo is isolated in the first case.
Thank you !
why JTs and 99 are balanced with 9X bluff ?
What exactly is this product? Is it like pio but with every flop pre solved?
It's like pio except the game tree is automatically created for you from a hand history and the solving is done in the cloud. GTOx.io.
Edit: There are actually two modules of GTOx shown in this video , one is a solver, and the other is an aggregated report viewer showing range strategies for 6max 100bb across all flops.
Do you mind telling us what is the software you are using?
This is GTOx, which is not out yet, but will be launched soon. gtox.io.
So you're a luckbox chaser from OOP that hit on the river. Show the vid of all the times you chase from OOP and bricked. Highly unlikely you shove then.
Why do you not have the most subs in YouToobs world? This page is essentially a way for the average schmuck to print money.
Unless he's mike postle 😂
TMI