brilliant video, also its crazy to think in 1968 british railways said steam would never be allowed back on the mainline. i am very glad that never happened. so thankful to everyone across the whole country for keeping these amazing machines running. my local heritage railway is the KWVR a little line with a big industrial past. look forward to visit your railway in the future.
This is interesting, at the NYMR we run trains between grosmont and Whitby on network rail tracks. But we don’t have to have TPWS or AWS on the engines. The section of track we operate on is run as an absolute block system. We share the track with northern trains and they get priority. We are only allowed to proceed when northern trains are clear of that section. We basically take possession of that section and then hand it back when clear. It’s the agreement we have with network rail. All the engines we run on this section do have to have main line tickets on them though.
Thank you Will, always something to be learned from these films. Pleased to see Dave still hard at it and so typical of how much we spectators owe all the voluteers who keep these wonderful beasts running for us to enjoy and admire.
What another amazing story. It is interesting to see what it takes. Of the Victorian Heritage Railways that run mainline. It takes +12 months to plan. Intercity shuttles to multi day slow rail journeys.
Nice to see you guys went down to Stewarts Lane Depot where Clan Line is based I'm usually there helping out the MNLPS as I am a proud member been down there since 2013 kept working with them most weekends weekdays very rare.
This is part of our history and heritage. the railway was the most important development ever and allowed transportation of food and supplies and travel for the masses for the first time.
Something to note regarding AWS and TPWS, one of Clan Line's half-sisters (specifically, Battle of Britain Class locomotive 34067 Tangmere) was involved in a *very* serious near-miss back in 2015, due to the driver being frankly irresponsible with the way he was using the AWS and TPWS. The Signals to Danger podcast tells the story better than I ever could, but in a nutshell, the driver missed the AWS warning, and recklessly chose to override the brake application. By opening the valve he did, it also effectively disabled the ability of the TPWS to do its job as well. He flew past a Caution (Yellow) on approach to Wootton Bassett Junction, and TPWS cottoned on to the dangerous overspeed, but because the valve was still open, it meant that the TPWS couldn't apply the brakes. The driver only realised what was going on (and therefore slammed the brakes on) about 200 yds away from signal SN45 showing a Danger (Red) aspect while still doing about 70mph, and he promptly SPAD'ed straight into Wootton Bassett Junction, coming to a stand fouling both lines. The scariest part? The HST that was in section had only cleared the front section where Tangmere's nose come to a stand about 45 seconds earlier. Had that HST been delayed by 1 minute, or had Tangmere departed 1 minute early, about 90 tons of steam locomotive would have met with the back-end of a Class 43 HST power car. WCRC got in *a lot* of trouble over this one, because the RAIB investigation found some very serious breaches of safety all over the place.
I love stuff like this, and I'm glad you addressed the Green Train because that's one of my favourite parts of railway preservation, I only wish I was old enough to remember it. It's so interesting when railtours and heritage railways interact for some reason.
I remember a few years back I was trying to get out and about to see 71000 Duke of Gloucester before it's boiler certificate expired and was pulled in for overhaul. I'd checked the dates and times and planned my day of train spotting. Intending to catch the Duke at various locations on the planned route. However on 3 separate occasions in which it was intended to run, it kept failing its fitness to run test. So yes, they can and do fail these locomotives if they have something wrong with them. Apparently The Duke had a flat spot on one of its tender wheels which they were unable to fix and subsequently failed its FTR.... 3 times on the trot. So yes, it was rather frustrating but looking at the bigger picture, These rules are there for a reason and I for 1 am glad the powers that be hold these locomotives to a very high standard.
I remember when she was at Wimbledon Park Depot back in about 95 or 96 with Taw Valley for the open days. I was a guard back then and catched a few foot plate rides on both Engines. Great days....
Great video, really informative. One aspect that wasn't covered was the question of when or what stipulates that a stream powered train must have a diesel support unit? Thank you.
Hi there, now this question I can't answer for certain since we don't run mainline tours. However, I passed on your question to one of the CL team and here's what they said "Diesel support is only needed when required for assistance during the leaf fall season or for operational requirements" For stock with electric train heating, you can normally find a diesel on the back to provide that and also act as a portable insurance policy should the train need a helping hand. Hope this helps!
how times hi Will.great video, i used to work on clan line when it was at Southall shed in the 80's under overhaul, how times have changed with this loco.
Having seen the effort this crew (and others) puts into running a big steam locomotive on the main line, I compliment all for their diligence. Another British quirk that immigrants just do not appreciate or understand, many thanks for opening our eyes to engineering at its best.
Brilliant video. But one question I have always had with mainline running is why some steam trains run with a diesel locomotive behind and some don't? For example, the A1 'Tornado' often does not, but many films I have found of Black 5s do.
Hi there, there's a variety of reasons diesels appear on the back of railtours. From providing electric train heating to operational reasons e.g. shunting out of a dead-end platform towing at the destination. They can also provide a backup during leaf fall season where adhesion can be an issue (do check out the video we posted recently on why leaves on the line is such a big issue).
It's kept because it works the brakes on the locomotive and tender. It also means it can work vacuum fitted trains on the mainline and when it visits preserved lines.
Loco has steam brakes, tender has vacuum brakes, train brakes are air or vacuum depending on stock. All systems are integrated to work from the air valve lever.
My understanding is that it's because of the central driving wheels - on 9Fs, these have no flanges. Modern check rails on pointwork etc can be higher than the running rails - not an issue when you have flanges, as the flange sits between the running rails and check rail. However, on flangeless wheels, it would result in the wheel riding up onto the check rail/causing damage. It's a shame, I'd love to see a 9F on the mainline, but it's not going to happen without serious modification of either the locomotive or the track.
Hi there, there's a variety of reasons diesels appear on the back of railtours. From providing electric train heating to operational reasons e.g. shunting out of a dead-end platform towing at the destination. They can also provide a backup during leaf fall season where adhesion can be an issue (do check out the video we posted recently on why leaves on the line is such a big issue).
First, I hate seeing the diesel on the back. However, I think time keeping is the primary issue because the trains have to run inside a busy timetable that for the most part runs quite a bit faster than back in the steam days. So if there is a problem such as poor steaming (sometimes the coal is mostly dusty crap) or slipping), the diesel will push to save the day. I just wish they were fitted with lights that reveal when the diesel is idling or when it is pushing. There are other logistical reasons too.
brilliant video, also its crazy to think in 1968 british railways said steam would never be allowed back on the mainline. i am very glad that never happened. so thankful to everyone across the whole country for keeping these amazing machines running. my local heritage railway is the KWVR a little line with a big industrial past. look forward to visit your railway in the future.
that's ironic as Pegler somehow persauded BR to let him run Flying Scotsman on the mainline during the steam ban!
This is interesting, at the NYMR we run trains between grosmont and Whitby on network rail tracks. But we don’t have to have TPWS or AWS on the engines. The section of track we operate on is run as an absolute block system. We share the track with northern trains and they get priority. We are only allowed to proceed when northern trains are clear of that section. We basically take possession of that section and then hand it back when clear. It’s the agreement we have with network rail. All the engines we run on this section do have to have main line tickets on them though.
Big round of applause for all these people who keep these locos running, top job chaps!!!!
A real insight to mainline running, thanks team.
Thank you Will, always something to be learned from these films. Pleased to see Dave still hard at it and so typical of how much we spectators owe all the voluteers who keep these wonderful beasts running for us to enjoy and admire.
What another amazing story.
It is interesting to see what it takes.
Of the Victorian Heritage Railways that run mainline. It takes +12 months to plan. Intercity shuttles to multi day slow rail journeys.
Very interesting to see what all of these systems look like onboard. A real team effort. Very well presented and enjoyable to watch. Well done!!
Thank you for taking the time to create these videos. Always love to see a new upload.
A very interesting and informative video Will. Thank you. 👍
Nice to see you guys went down to Stewarts Lane Depot where Clan Line is based I'm usually there helping out the MNLPS as I am a proud member been down there since 2013 kept working with them most weekends weekdays very rare.
most interesting and informative. Shows just how much is needed and required to run on the main line.
This is part of our history and heritage. the railway was the most important development ever and allowed transportation of food and supplies and travel for the masses for the first time.
Something to note regarding AWS and TPWS, one of Clan Line's half-sisters (specifically, Battle of Britain Class locomotive 34067 Tangmere) was involved in a *very* serious near-miss back in 2015, due to the driver being frankly irresponsible with the way he was using the AWS and TPWS.
The Signals to Danger podcast tells the story better than I ever could, but in a nutshell, the driver missed the AWS warning, and recklessly chose to override the brake application. By opening the valve he did, it also effectively disabled the ability of the TPWS to do its job as well. He flew past a Caution (Yellow) on approach to Wootton Bassett Junction, and TPWS cottoned on to the dangerous overspeed, but because the valve was still open, it meant that the TPWS couldn't apply the brakes. The driver only realised what was going on (and therefore slammed the brakes on) about 200 yds away from signal SN45 showing a Danger (Red) aspect while still doing about 70mph, and he promptly SPAD'ed straight into Wootton Bassett Junction, coming to a stand fouling both lines.
The scariest part? The HST that was in section had only cleared the front section where Tangmere's nose come to a stand about 45 seconds earlier. Had that HST been delayed by 1 minute, or had Tangmere departed 1 minute early, about 90 tons of steam locomotive would have met with the back-end of a Class 43 HST power car.
WCRC got in *a lot* of trouble over this one, because the RAIB investigation found some very serious breaches of safety all over the place.
Great look see at the nitty gritty of mainline running 👍🚂
I love stuff like this, and I'm glad you addressed the Green Train because that's one of my favourite parts of railway preservation, I only wish I was old enough to remember it. It's so interesting when railtours and heritage railways interact for some reason.
Marvellous. Well done everybody and thankyou for all you do!
What a great video, very informative, interesting and enjoyable. Thank you.
Fascinating insights! I'd love to do a mainline steam excursion
I remember a few years back I was trying to get out and about to see 71000 Duke of Gloucester before it's boiler certificate expired and was pulled in for overhaul.
I'd checked the dates and times and planned my day of train spotting. Intending to catch the Duke at various locations on the planned route.
However on 3 separate occasions in which it was intended to run, it kept failing its fitness to run test. So yes, they can and do fail these locomotives if they have something wrong with them.
Apparently The Duke had a flat spot on one of its tender wheels which they were unable to fix and subsequently failed its FTR.... 3 times on the trot.
So yes, it was rather frustrating but looking at the bigger picture, These rules are there for a reason and I for 1 am glad the powers that be hold these locomotives to a very high standard.
What a great episode! Well done will and team! Can't wait until CP Returns in march!
Brilliant as always!
Interesting thanks
I remember when she was at Wimbledon Park Depot back in about 95 or 96 with Taw Valley for the open days. I was a guard back then and catched a few foot plate rides on both Engines. Great days....
13:23 Andover! I thought I recognised the background...
Great video, really informative. One aspect that wasn't covered was the question of when or what stipulates that a stream powered train must have a diesel support unit? Thank you.
Hi there, now this question I can't answer for certain since we don't run mainline tours. However, I passed on your question to one of the CL team and here's what they said
"Diesel support is only needed when required for assistance during the leaf fall season or for operational requirements"
For stock with electric train heating, you can normally find a diesel on the back to provide that and also act as a portable insurance policy should the train need a helping hand.
Hope this helps!
@thewatercressline that makes sense. Thank you for finding out for me, and so quickly. All the best.
Really great and informative video, thanks!!
Interesting and very well-explained.
how times hi Will.great video, i used to work on clan line when it was at Southall shed in the 80's under overhaul, how times have changed with this loco.
Cracking video!
A fantastic video, great insight, one question, what’s the estimated cost of the equipment and commissioning for a loco, so the OTMR, TPWS etc etc
Whilst I don't know an exact figure, you're easily talking a high 5 figure sum.
@ thanks so much for replying, and wow 😱
Having seen the effort this crew (and others) puts into running a big steam locomotive on the main line, I compliment all for their diligence. Another British quirk that immigrants just do not appreciate or understand, many thanks for opening our eyes to engineering at its best.
Brilliant video. But one question I have always had with mainline running is why some steam trains run with a diesel locomotive behind and some don't? For example, the A1 'Tornado' often does not, but many films I have found of Black 5s do.
Hi there, there's a variety of reasons diesels appear on the back of railtours. From providing electric train heating to operational reasons e.g. shunting out of a dead-end platform towing at the destination. They can also provide a backup during leaf fall season where adhesion can be an issue (do check out the video we posted recently on why leaves on the line is such a big issue).
can anybody tell me which Brighton Belle cab unit that is at 7:30 -7:36?
Why has Clan Line got vacuum and air brakes. Why not remove the vacuum brakes and just have air brakes as she seems to be a main line runner only.
It's kept because it works the brakes on the locomotive and tender. It also means it can work vacuum fitted trains on the mainline and when it visits preserved lines.
Loco has steam brakes, tender has vacuum brakes, train brakes are air or vacuum depending on stock. All systems are integrated to work from the air valve lever.
Where do the footplate crew come from/who supplies them?
I guess they'll need both Route Knowledge and the skills of driving and firing a steam engine
Supplied by the operator
Where is Bodmin these days??
Where it's always been . Cornwall ?
@kenh3344 The locomotive named Bodmin that is in the footage of the green train, she was at the watercress line for years and then just disappeared
@@CrazyChrisYT Cut up
Who owns clan line?
The Merchant Navy Locomotive Preservation Society (MNLPS) own and operate her.
Just drive it on the line and let the signal man worry
Oh wait
Why cannot 9f’s go mainline?
My understanding is that it's because of the central driving wheels - on 9Fs, these have no flanges. Modern check rails on pointwork etc can be higher than the running rails - not an issue when you have flanges, as the flange sits between the running rails and check rail. However, on flangeless wheels, it would result in the wheel riding up onto the check rail/causing damage.
It's a shame, I'd love to see a 9F on the mainline, but it's not going to happen without serious modification of either the locomotive or the track.
It's the diesel on the back that bugs me. What is it doing? Is it doing the pushing? If so then a steam trip is a fake steam trip.
Hi there, there's a variety of reasons diesels appear on the back of railtours. From providing electric train heating to operational reasons e.g. shunting out of a dead-end platform towing at the destination. They can also provide a backup during leaf fall season where adhesion can be an issue (do check out the video we posted recently on why leaves on the line is such a big issue).
It's there to add dead weight so the drivers and firemen have even more of a challenge. I've only ever seen it working during shunting.
First, I hate seeing the diesel on the back. However, I think time keeping is the primary issue because the trains have to run inside a busy timetable that for the most part runs quite a bit faster than back in the steam days. So if there is a problem such as poor steaming (sometimes the coal is mostly dusty crap) or slipping), the diesel will push to save the day. I just wish they were fitted with lights that reveal when the diesel is idling or when it is pushing. There are other logistical reasons too.