Harp vs. Standard Violin Tailpiece Showdown
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Can you really hear a difference between standard tailpieces and harp tailpieces?
That's what we're trying to determine here today. I start out by comparing a French style Ebony tailpiece against an Ebony Harp Tailpiece. But to really go for it, I also compare those two with the Boxwood Harp Tailpiece because it is significantly lighter. Hear the results for yourself.
Links:
French Style Tailpiece: fiddlershop.co...
Harp Style Tailpieces: fiddlershop.co...
Hill Style Tailpiece: fiddlershop.co...
Peter White's Violin: fiddlershop.co...
Holstein 2-Star Bow: fiddlershop.co...
Ebony French vs. Ebony Harp: 1:45
Ebony French vs. Boxwood Harp: 3:29
All three back to back: 5:47
I noticed a slight difference, the harp piece sounded smoother and a bit darker. The difference was very small though but I did enjoy the sound more. I currently have a rosewood harp tailpiece I'm wanting to switch out on my violin. Waiting to get into a luthier so they can change all the fittings at once, including the pegs. Honestly, I choose a harp tailpiece because I like the look of it more than a standard tailpiece. Same reason for choosing rosewood fittings in general over ebony.
ah i see
HELP IM ON A FIDDLESHOP VIDEO WATCHING SPRY AND I CAN'T STOP WATCHING THE VIDEOS ARE SO GOOOOOOD
Weeeeee! A million thanks - you just made us all very happy ❤️
@@Fiddlershop The ZMT Tailpiece is another type of Harp Tailpiece.
I hear a big difference in the sound with the boxwood harp tailpiece. I can’t quite decide which sound I like better, but I do hear a difference.
I thought the boxwood sounded shockingly better to where it's like the upgrade is actually substantial.
To me it's not even close, like going from a 1000 dollar violin to a 5,000 dollar violin.
I"m hearing a HUGE difference between the standard and harp in that the latter has much more resonance. Problem is, I'm not sure the difference is an improvement. To me, the harp tailpiece sounds a little like what you'd get if you took a clip with the standard tailpiece and added a post-process reverb filter set to "small room." It does "ring" more, but it also obscures the direct sound from the strings. This might be an improvement if you had a cheaper, boxier-sounding instrument, but Peter's violin sounds so fantastic on its own that I find the harp does little but obscure the great top end of his instrument. (Strangely, I also find the difference most telling with the ebony rather than the boxwood harp, so I don’t think it’s a matter of weight.
As someone who's used a cheaper, boxier sounding violin with one, I can assure you it doesn't help, because cheaper and boxier sounding violins already struggle to produce solid and clear tone on the lower strings. It only makes it harder and strangles the sound.
I bought a cheap made in China Cello, amazingly; it didn't break in transport as I got a solid case to put it in as well! It claims the tailpiece is Ebony but is plastic in reality. I want to replace it and the pegs to improve the sound and I was thinking perhaps the Harp style tail piece might help!
I designed one for my collection which are hollowed out and the harps part in front of the fret, its shape mimics the violins bridge.
So then, I designed a similar to a ZMT tailpiece. For my birthday U received a fantastical Galiani Violin instead of a violin bow of that design. Quite fun and thankx for your sharing here
Thanks for watching!
There is definitely a difference in sound! Expericllay the boxwood which I prefer. I have standard boxwood fittings on my violin. I wonder if THAT makes the difference I hear in sound and not just the harp tailpiece. In your demo, I prefer the boxwood harp tailpiece. It is a richer, and not as bright, but controlled, even sweeter in a more darker way, and just as much projection and resonance as the standard sound and not as bright. Though for me I will stick to the standard boxwood fittings that I have. Love my violin as is. A change in strings and more practice with bowing techniques, etc
, would make much more of an impact in sound than changing the tailpiece and i would suggest experimenting on that first! Thanks for the Demo.
The Standard tailpiece was MUCH more substantial, but especially on the e string. By far the best.
Good to know!! Thanks for watching 😃
Amazing comparisson Michael!! I believe that harp's model are more warm and "dolce"...and french model have more projection..thank you..
Appreciate it, Alexandre! Thanks for watching!
Standard sounded much better. Not a surprise since the harp creates an imbalance between the strings.
Thanks for doing this comparison. I've added a rosewood harp tailpiece and low tension Larsen Tzigane strings (stark g,d and e, medium a). '82 Liang Guo Hui violin has more focus from g and d. Able to get some darker, sweeter tones from this instrument that was exceptionally bright, without loss of power. Also learned to play without chinrest because I like the tone without it so much better.
I think I prefer the sound of the standard but was a pretty small difference.
I agree
Harp tailpiece and light tailpiece is producing more hollow sound. It is a sound like a violin without sound post.
That doesn't make sense.
That made perfect sense, and I completely agree
The standard tailpiece had a consistently clearer and more powerful tone. The harp had a fuzzy warmer type of tone. I much prefer the standard
Thanks for asking this question. But what's interesting about the harp is the *different* afterlengths: does that lead to better sound than *same* afterlengths? It seems to me that you aren't testing that because you have too many variables.
(a) Try straight vs harp that weigh the same. Any idea what the afterlengths should be? If coming from 1/6, which string should be 1/6? If any?
(b) Try a straight composite or titanium (lighter?) tailpiece. The ebony vs boxwood of the same geometry might be doing that.
(c) Rather than thinking of the harp as "removing material from the low-string side", why not try more of a good thing and remove the same amount of material from the high-string side?
(d) What's a tailpiece for? I saw a bass once in which the tailpiece had been replaced with four pieces of cord. I didn't get to hear it, but if lighter might be better, then try that. If not, then it would be cool to really figure out what tailpieces add.
A violin with a 1% improvement is a big deal. I mean it's a very focused instrument in terms of sound so 1% is the hole world
Each tailpiece made some difference, especially on the E string. The big jump was from standard to Boxwood. The Boxwood got very bright especially as you moved up the scale and on to the E string. Both Harp styles gave the G and lower end strings a bit more power.
I listened with my eyes closed, expecting you to announce when you switched tailpieces, and I couldn't tell the difference between the standard and harp tailpiece. I was surprised when you said you'd just played them both. Although it might be an issue that the notes you chose to play as a sample were mostly on the A and E strings, which might not be ideal if the biggest change would be on the G and D strings.
I do like the sound of the boxwood tailpiece too.It gives kind of more open sound.I suppose is a cuestión of taste.
You can never step into the same stream twice, so slight differences are inevitable regardless of the tailpiece swap.
I have heard a huge difference in my violin with the harp tailpiece. I love the darker sound it provides, and it doesn't affect playability at all.
All 3: 5:48
slightly louder more articulation and resonance with harp! thank you for the test
Our pleasure! Thanks for your input.
To my ears the boxwood version sounds better than the ebony one. Or am I imagining things?
Who knows lol
The fact that there is a difference in weight between the standard and the harp tailpiece is in itself a factor that could change the sound of the violin and should be taken into consideration. At least it would be more correct to compare the two different but equally weighted tailpieces between Standard and Harp to get a more concrete idea because sound differences can also be heard between standard tailpieces but of different weights and/or materials.
Standard tailpiece sounds the best by far on this violin. As we go to ebony harp and boxwood harp it loses more focus and clarity.
Yes, you are right.
I absolutely agree. I'll add that the two harp tailpieces added an undesireable pinched, nasal quality to the A and E strings.
Suggest you look carefully and measure the after string length 'ASL'. this has a pronounced effect on the tonality and response of the instrument.. There are optimal levels based on ASL for each type of Tailpiece... have you considered weight and type of wood as well ?
The boxwood harp is beautiful.
Thanks, Bella! :)
Honestly, It was even more difficult to hear the difference with the lighter taile piece
Million dollar question: What mic do you use??
Million dollar answer: Audio-Technica BP4029 (all the gear is on our kit page) kit.co/Fiddlershop/fiddlershop-s-recording-gear
@@Fiddlershop Thnx so much!!!!
There seems to be some audible differences, especially in the lower strings. A little brighter perhaps.
My violin has dark sound with rose wood tail piece And 4 tuners. So I need brighter sound which one of these I use 🤔 .
And for violin too bright sound which tail piece should I use?
If they don't hurt the sound I might go for it on one of my instruments just because they look different.
For me is big difference between strings balance, stantard gives best balance for 4 strings, but on both hurps are more flat and poor a and d strings, but g stings in hurp only better than on standart. For my appinion form of standart tailpiece makes less difference between strings registers.
This is an intriguing comparison. I've seen the harp tailpiece, but it's difficult to get hold of in my country. From the passages you're playing I do get a slightly deeper, richer response on the lower string, albeit less projection on a the E and A strings. It probably depends very much on the individual instrument.
Yes, we feel the same way!
Those are the differences I noticed, too! It felt like I might prefer the boxwood harp tailpiece for intimate environments but the standard ebony for large halls.
Thank you very much for your effort to do the experiment. Ignore the type, I love Ebony material which sound is focus and firm. For Ebony std tailpiece vs Ebony Harp, I love std one too, it seems the balance is better, but it is just very slightly difference I heard.
The boxwood is lighter than the Stradpet British style tailpiece
Weight with Titanium Tailgut: 13.1 grams (this is like more than doubt the weight of boxwood)
Need your assistance here which one in your opinion sounds better the boxwood or Stradpet British style tailpiece?
What are the correct proportions and notes for the afterlengths?
Thanks for watching! You may be able to find those measurements on Google. I do apologize as I do not have that information.
the boxwood tailpiece sounded a bit hollow, lost some of the focus, but it's very minor and i probably wouldn't even notice if i wasn't looking out for it
the harp reduces focus..makes a flabbier sound...plus I'm not convinced that you are putting the bridge in exactly the same place each time, which is the biggest problem with the test.. enjoyed your playing though...
And the winner is ebony harp style tailpiece
Thanks for watching!
i recently mailed you guys asking about this exactly XD. Thank you for being super responsive and responding!
I believe it would depend on what type of music you played, As a professional fiddler I think the harp style might be better for waltzes and fill-in, the standard might be better for faster tunes But the Harp style might harmonize better when playing double string. I use two fiddleS Armati for waltzes and slow fill-in and Strad for Fast pieces and square dances and as a backup. Think the harp style would be good for fill in and waltzes.
Thanks for watching!
Do you recommend to use a Harp model tailpeace on violin or use just a normal tailpeace?
ребята это все меняет только под ухом музыканта на расстоянии 15 метров звук прежний не меняется
Thanks for watching!
last piece..title?
Seems like ebony harp tailpiece was gentler and sweeter than the standard ebony tailpiece, but the boxwood harp tailpiece added a desirable richness to the ebony harp tailpiece sound. Good stuff!
Thanks for watching!
I am confused..
Only the G-string length behind the bridge is increased and does that even support in ringing the sound?
Well the ratio of string below and above the bridge 100% makes a difference. There is an exact measurement for this for a reason
Clear difference, even more clear with the boxwood harp compared to the ebony standard
Glad it helped!
I am so excited for the fiddlerman concert 5 string viola!
Awesome!! Happy playing!
How much for the violin?!
Difference is a hair
hello, good video. What do you think of the olive wood pieces, tailpieces, pegs and chin rests, to give it uniformity in color, but I wonder if it is a good decision?
Hi Pedro! I'm do think I've ever seen olive wood fittings, definitely going to go look that up. But there are lots of other less popular wood options like snakewood, cocobolo, pernambuco, too, so it's quite possible that Olive works well too.
@@Fiddlershop I have investigated on my own and the olive wood is of great hardness and duration, but it also gives sweetness and warmth to the sound of the instrument. I will just receive my first violin class tomorrow, because today I am celebrating my birthday and I did not want to interrupt my family with my classes. I bought a beginner violin, a Cecilio CVN 200, but I am already planning the intermediate student violin that I plan to buy in a couple of years. So I take advantage of asking you another question. I really like the Fiddlerman Soloist violin, but I see that the Holstein Traditional Red Mendelssohn violin is very similar. Regardless of the wood of the tailpiece and the shinrest, I would like to replace them with the pieces of olive wood that I already mentioned. Between these two violins, which one do you recommend and why? I really like the red coloration of the Soloist, but what do you have to tell me about the characteristics of the instrument, since the price is also very similar. Thanks for your time!
Wouldn't a harp style mess with the intonation?
It doesn't actually mess with inotnation because the "vibrating string length" is still just between the nut and the bridge. It only changes the after-length. It's similar to sometimes violists or cellists change the C-string to go to the top peg instead of the bottom peg to get longer afterlength within the pegbox-also doesn't affect intonation.
Which tailgut you’ve been used?
We mostly use the Sacconi tailgut on our violins: fiddlershop.com/products/wittner-nylon-sacconi-style-tailgut-for-violin
Can you please help me cause my violin is damaging
Hi there! How can we help you? Thanks
Question: Would you have to have specially fitted strings for a harp tailpeice??
Sara Wilson No, but it is a concern that strings are designed for standard tailpieces, not harp. So there's no telling the impact it has on overall performance. But they are used with regular strings.
@@longliveclassicmusic , thank you so much!
Very nice, but, my ear favored the ebony tailpiece. Ebony probably sounds harsh under the ear but projects beautifully. The harp boxwood tailpiece would work beautifully on a new bright instrument whose voice has not opened up yet. Thank you for the video. I enjoyed it.
Thanks for watching, Nel!
what's the piece he plays after Tchaikovsky? sounds like Handel
It's J.S. Bach, the gigue from the E minor sonata for violin and continuo.
@@Fiddlershop grazie
Depends on the player's preference. I ended up hating using a harp-style because it made the lower strings lack clarity. It's nice at first because you think oh more resonance, darker, warmer, so pretty. But I grew to despise it over time. What people need to understand is that it's difficult to get solid clarity in the G string on a standard tailpiece to begin with. Don't cripple your playing by making it harder to do so.
And what people don't understand is video doesn't really give an accurate measure of some of these aspects. What I did notice was your intonation got worse with the harp tailpiece in the Tchaikovsky which shows it lacked so much clarity you couldn't accurately hear the center of the pitch.
I think if someone is a working professional with a huge track record with standard tailpieces, they could get an accurate feel for whether they like it. But I don't think students early in their studies (like me) should try them, even if they think they like the sound. You don't know what you don't know, and beginners don't understand the clarity needed in the lower strings (particularly for certain music) and also have a hard time being able to tell what factors are hurting their intonation. Don't complicate that by using non-standard fittings.
When listening to the harp boxwood tailpece, we found that the noise cancellation feature has been added
While there is background noise when listening to the standard tailpece
I fear that the sound was fabricated
Hi! We don't use any noise cancellation features in our videos. Thanks
Sorry I do not hear any difference other than it looks cool... don't waste your money.