@@drkKennedy Yes, I know only too well. I was a JW for 60 years, so I am well aware of the mind control. Just keep swinging, you'll get a hit once in a while.
I had confrontations with nearly 20 JW in USA and in Egypt and none of them ever could answer my question: "Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus is archangel Michael? " They either immediately ran away or gave me irrelevant Bible verses that I so easily refuted. In Hebrews 1 it explicitly says that Jesus is not an angel and in countless verses it says that he is God, The Son of God, and the son of Man.
Most truly I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.q John 13:16 . Jesus was SENT BY GOD - and called as SERVANT OF GOD. Acts 4:27 WHO IS OVER ALL? Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. GOD and FATHER is OVER/ABOVE ALL and that "All" includes the SON so they are NOT EQUAL THE BIBLE teaches that Jesus was MADE As Lord and Christ and as Son (ACTS 2:36, Prov 8, HEB 1:5), CREATED/PRODUCED/INSTALLED (Prov 8) , COME INTO BEING/MADE (Mat 21:42 - egeneto) and GIVEN LIFE by the Father - John 5:26 and it uses TODAY (Heb 1:5), and uses future tenses and is a prophecy in Isa 9:6 (Isa 9:6, - WILL BE) . If you are called MADE AND CREATED AND GIVEN LIFE, and NEVER CALLED in the BIBLE as Creator or Maker , then you are A CREATION. ALL FROM THE BIBLE From the Lord was this (this is referring to the chief cornerstone who is Jesus) , the word WAS is egeneto (made or came into being) - Matthew 21:42 and the exact Greek word used in John 1:3 - MADE, egeneto (came into being) - JESUS WAS MADE/CAME INTO BEING FROM THE FATHER , yes, Jesus was MADE/CREATED!, See also Acts 2:36, Heb 1:5, 1 john 5 Jesus in FACT mentioned the FATHER IS GREATER than I am. JOhn 14:28. BEFORE he WAS SENT, the Father is ALSO GREATER than Jesus. Most truly I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.q John 13:16 . Jesus was SENT BY GOD - and called as SERVANT OF GOD. Acts 4:27 AFTER his resurrection the FATHER IS STILL GREATER than Jesus - WHO IS OVER ALL? Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. GOD and FATHER is OVER/ABOVE ALL and that "All" includes the SON so they are NOT EQUAL
@mr.d.c.1914.1 Jesus was ascended in heaven in his glorious body and sits at the right hand of God after he defeated Satan. Jesus' resurrection is considered a victory over death, satan and sin. Paul wrote that the dead in Christ will rise first and then be transformed into the likeness of Jesus' glorious body. Philippians 2:9-11 states that Jesus is equal with God, and that all people should honor Jesus as they honor God. John 5:22-23 states: John 5:22: "For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son" John 5:23: "That all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him"
@@shortflims2165 Of course Jesus was resurrected and that's what JWs teach as well. Phil 29 does not say that Jesus is equal to God. Even Eph 4:6 said that the FATHER IS OVER ALL.
@mr.d.c.1914.1 The Bible says that Jesus is equal to God: John 5:18: Jesus claims to be equal with God by calling God his Father. Philippians 2:5-7: Jesus had equal status with God, but didn't think so much of himself that he had to cling to the advantages of that status. John 1:1-5: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". Isaiah 9:6: The prophet Isaiah declared that Jesus was God. 1 Timothy 3:16: Jesus is both God's Son and God Himself-God in human flesh. Colossians 2:9: Jesus was fully man, but He was also fully God. The Bible also teaches that Jesus submits himself to the Father, but this does not mean that he is inferior. He does so willingly, out of love.
I will address these questions in separate posts. 1) Who did Isaiah see in Isaiah 6:1-10? Answer: He saw Jehovah God and Jesus Christ. This is evident by John 12:38-41 in connection to Isaiah 6:8.
@drkennedy, I provided Isaiah 6:8 in connection to John 12:38-41. When Isaiah witnessed Jehovah’s glory, John informs us Isaiah also witnessed Jehovah’s son’s (Jesus) glory, for he is one of the “us” in both scriptures.
Only the Lord’s glory is spoken of in Isaiah, of JW has inserted the word Jehovah which is not the name of God as you claim but an evolution of the mediaval age!
@drkennedy, As I already mentioned in my previous comment, Jesus is inferred at Isaiah 6:8. When Jehovah said “who will go for us”, it is deduced the Son must have been present next to the Father, thus Isaiah must have seen the Son’s glory as well, just as it is confirmed at John 12:38-41. Remember: Jesus in his pre-human life had glory alongside his Father, Jehovah (John 17:5).
Lest deal with those texts at a time. First In Isaiah 6. The answer as to whom Isua saw can be found in verse 8 "“Whom shall I send, and who will go *for US?"*. The use of the plural pronoun "US" indicates that Isiah saw more than Just the LORD _(which is Jehovah)_ Jehovah alone was the God that Isaiah worshipped. Isaiah had no idea about a tri-unity god, just the one individual person being that he knew as Jehovah. But here in this verse there is more than one that is aching the question. To Isiah the “US” probably included the messiah to come, as much of what Isiah wrote was bout the messiah. So it is reasonable to conclude that when John wrote that Isaiah “saw his glory,” we can conclude that Isiah was speaking of both God and the Messiah. Also the use of the pronoun “US” by Isiah harmonies with such scriptures as Ge 1:26, where God said: “Let us make man in our image.”
Also in John 1:14 John already records for is that Jesus has glory that belongs to the only begotten son. John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” (KJV) John 1:14 “So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth.” (NWT)
Apologies for not responding to your comments but I have had a busy day. Because of the issues you have raised. I have a somewhat long response. I know we are coming from different theological backgrounds but here are the challenges with your response: 1. Addressing Isaiah 6:8 and the use of “Us” Your argument hinges on the plural pronoun "Us" in Isaiah 6:8, suggesting that Isaiah saw "more than just the LORD (Jehovah)," which could include the Messiah. However, this interpretation inadvertently supports the very idea you seem to reject-namely, that the "Us" indicates a plurality within the divine being, which aligns with the doctrine of the Trinity. The plurality of "Us" in Isaiah 6:8 is consistent with other texts where God refers to Himself in plural terms, such as Genesis 1:26 ("Let us make man in our image"). While Jehovah’s Witnesses interpret this as God speaking to angels, this cannot hold, as humanity is made in God’s image, not in the image of God and angels. The plurality in these texts points to the multi-personal nature of God, further revealed in the New Testament through the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Moreover, the context of Isaiah 6 does not indicate that Isaiah saw more than one divine being. The focus remains on the glory of the LORD (Jehovah). The "Us" in Isaiah 6:8 is consistent with the intra-Trinitarian dialogue seen throughout Scripture, and John 12:41 explicitly identifies the one Isaiah saw as Jesus. Let’s explore this further. 2. John 12:38-41: Who did Isaiah see? John 12:38-41 unequivocally states that the glory Isaiah saw in Isaiah 6 was Jesus' glory. Here is the relevant passage: John 12:41 (KJV): “These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.” John 12:41 (NWT): “Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory, and he spoke about him.” The context of John 12 is crucial. John is explaining why many Jews did not believe in Jesus, quoting Isaiah 53:1 and Isaiah 6:10 to show that their unbelief was prophesied. He concludes by stating that Isaiah spoke of Jesus’ glory in Isaiah 6. If Isaiah 6:1-10 describes the vision of Jehovah’s glory, and John applies this to Jesus, then the only logical conclusion is that Jesus is Jehovah-not a separate being, but fully God. Your suggestion that Isaiah saw "both God and the Messiah" adds complexity that is not in the text. The Hebrew text of Isaiah 6 focuses solely on the LORD (Jehovah). The apostle John, under divine inspiration, applies this vision specifically to Jesus, identifying Him as the one whose glory Isaiah saw. This supports the Christian doctrine of the deity of Christ. 3. Isaiah’s Knowledge of the Messiah and the Trinity You assert that Isaiah only knew Jehovah and had no concept of a "tri-unity god." While it’s true that the Old Testament does not explicitly define the Trinity, it lays the groundwork for this revelation. Isaiah’s prophecy frequently refers to the coming Messiah as divine. For example: Isaiah 9:6 calls the Messiah “Mighty God” (El Gibbor) and “Everlasting Father” (Avi’ad), titles that belong to Jehovah alone. Isaiah 7:14 describes the Messiah as “Immanuel,” meaning “God with us.” Thus, while Isaiah may not have fully understood the Trinity as revealed in the New Testament, his writings point to the multi-personal nature of God, fulfilled in Jesus Christ. John 12:41 clarifies that the one Isaiah saw in his vision of Jehovah’s glory was indeed Jesus. 4. The Glory of Jesus (John 1:14) You reference John 1:14, which states that the Word (Jesus) became flesh and revealed His glory. This does not contradict John 12:41-it complements it. John 1:14 highlights the incarnation of Jesus, where His divine glory was revealed to His followers. John 12:41, on the other hand, shows that this same Jesus is the eternal Jehovah whose glory Isaiah saw. Your interpretation that Isaiah "saw both God and the Messiah" diminishes the full deity of Jesus. John 1:14 and John 12:41 do not depict Jesus as a lesser being beside Jehovah; they present Him as the Word who was with God and was God (John 1:1). Isaiah 6 and John’s writings together affirm Jesus’ divine identity and equality with the Father. Conclusion To summarize: The "Us" in Isaiah 6:8 aligns with the Trinitarian nature of God, not separate beings. John 12:38-41 explicitly states that the glory Isaiah saw in Isaiah 6 was the glory of Jesus, identifying Him as Jehovah. Isaiah’s writings consistently point to the Messiah’s divinity, and John’s gospel affirms this truth. Your argument inadvertently strengthens the case for the Trinity rather than undermining it. Jesus is not merely a representative of Jehovah-He is Jehovah, the one Isaiah saw seated on the throne, high and exalted.
@watchtowerdefence571 Yes Christ is "Lord." "In the year King Uzziah died. I saw the *Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up..." Is.6:1 Isaiah was given a vision of Christ the LORD, in His glory. Christ is also LORD of hosts and He is King.
Isaiah saw JEHOVAH AND his heavenly servants he did not see JEHOVAH alone as you are insinuating one of those servants performed a priestly service for Isaiah that cleansed him of his guilt and rendered him fit for JEHOVAH'S Service, Isaiah ch.6:6,7NKJV"Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a live coal which he had taken with the tongs from the altar. 7And he touched my mouth with it, and said: “Behold, this has touched your lips; Your iniquity is taken away, And your sin [b]purged.”" So have here a prophetic type Christ's priestly role a heavenly messenger who priestly service renders us fit for JEHOVAH'S Service.
I appreciate your attempt to answer this question. However, there are serious challenges in your analytical response because it contains some misunderstandings about the biblical texts in question. Let me address the points in detail, focusing on the context and theology behind John 12:41 and Isaiah 6:1-7. The Glory Seen by Isaiah: Jehovah or Jesus? John's Testimony (John 12:41) John clearly states, “Isaiah said these things because he saw His glory and spoke of Him.” The "Him" in context refers to Jesus Christ. Earlier in John 12, John quotes two passages from Isaiah (Isaiah 53:1 and Isaiah 6:9-10), applying them directly to Jesus. John's conclusion is that the glory Isaiah saw was Jesus's glory. This interpretation makes sense within the broader framework of Christian theology, which identifies Jesus as the visible manifestation of God's glory. John 1:18 supports this: “No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.” Isaiah 6: Jehovah Enthroned In Isaiah 6:1, Isaiah describes seeing "the Lord" (in Hebrew, Adonai), seated on a throne, high and lifted up. The train of His robe fills the temple, and the seraphim call out, “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts [YHWH]; the whole earth is full of His glory!” Isaiah explicitly identifies the figure as YHWH. This vision does not negate John's assertion that Isaiah saw Jesus's glory. Instead, it aligns with the Christian understanding of Jesus as fully divine and one with the Father. When Isaiah saw Jehovah, he was beholding the pre-incarnate Christ, who is the perfect image of God (Colossians 1:15, Hebrews 1:3). The Role of the Seraphim The argument raised in the response you shared emphasizes the role of the seraphim in cleansing Isaiah's sin. Let's clarify: Seraphim as Servants, Not Mediators The seraphim in Isaiah 6:6-7 act as servants of God, performing a priestly task. However, they do so at Jehovah's command. The live coal comes from the altar, symbolizing divine atonement, not the seraph's own power or authority. The cleansing is ultimately from Jehovah, mediated through the actions of the seraph. A Prophetic Foreshadowing of Christ While the seraph's act of cleansing Isaiah can be seen as a foreshadowing of Christ's priestly work, it does not diminish the fact that the one seated on the throne is Jehovah Himself. In Christian theology, Jesus fulfills the role of the ultimate High Priest (Hebrews 4:14-16), but this does not contradict the understanding that He is also Jehovah, the one Isaiah saw. Reconciling the Texts The claim that Isaiah only saw Jehovah and His heavenly court, rather than Jehovah Himself, misrepresents both the passage and John's interpretation. Isaiah is explicit in stating that he saw Jehovah enthroned, and John affirms that this was a vision of Jesus's glory. The role of the seraphim in the vision highlights God's holiness and the need for cleansing to approach Him, pointing forward to the ultimate cleansing provided by Christ. Conclusion The argument that Isaiah only saw "Jehovah's heavenly servants" fails to account for the plain reading of the text in Isaiah 6 and the inspired interpretation given by John in John 12:41. Isaiah saw Jehovah in all His glory, and John identifies this glory with Jesus, affirming His divine nature and unity with the Father.
@@drkKennedy no actually the text quoted john ch.12:38 is from from isaiah ch.53 specifically refers to the servant mediator there is where isaiah spoke of jesus glory not isaiah 6 your attempt to claim that mediator and servant are mutually exclusive terms fail,there is no difficulty in referring to christ as an angel in fact he is repeatedly depicted s an angel,JEHOVAH can't mediate with himself as it negates the dictionary definition of the word the mediator with JEHOVAH Must be a creature,The angels are manifestations of JEHOVAH'S Glory man is called JEHOVAH'S Glory with no implication of equality with his God and Father see 1Corinthians ch.11:7
@@drkKennedy John 12 does not equate Jesus with the LORD (Jehovah) of Isiah 6 or 53 Jesus has a God that he served (John 20:17) The New Testament consistency calls God “the *_God and Father of_* our Lord Jesus Christ,” (see 2 Corinthians 11:31; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 4:6; 1 Peter 1:3 [JKV]) Yes John saw the glory of Jesus along with the glory of God (see my reply to this video that starts with “Lest deal with those texts at a time”) Yes John quoted Isiah 53:1 (John 12:36-38) “ 36 Jesus said these things and went off and hid from them. 37 Although he had performed so many signs before them, they were not putting faith in him, 38 so that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, who said: “Jehovah, who has put faith in the thing heard from us? And as for *the arm of Jehovah,* to whom has it been revealed?” The Hebrew and Greek terms for arm are often used figuratively in the Bible to represent the ability to exert strength or power. Through the signs and miracles that Jesus performed, Jehovah [the God of Jesus] revealed His “arm,” His might and ability to exercise power. The “arm” of Jehovah God is immeasurably powerful, able to do marvelous creative works. (Jer 27:5; 32:17) By his “arm” Jehovah also rules (Isa 40:10; Eze 20:33), saves those in distress (Ps 44:3; Isa 52:10), delivers his people (Ex 6:6; Isa 63:12; Ac 13:17), supports and cares for them (De 33:27; Isa 40:11; Ho 11:3), judges (Isa 51:5), and scatters his enemies. Through Jesus Christ, clothed with authority and power and acting as Judge and Executioner, Jehovah manifests His might, represented by His “arm.” You are correct for John 1:18 says no man has ever seen God. The text says God not the Father. Humans saw Jesus there fore he is not God. The text says God not the Father. In Isiah 6:1 the word adonay (lord or master) is a reference to Jehovah NOT to Jesus. That is supported by verse 3 where the seraphim call out “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD [YHWH] of hosts; the whole earth is full of His glory!” Did you notice that even the whole earth is full of the glory of God. That means the heaves were also full of his glory You even get that correct for you say “Isaiah explicitly identifies the figure as YHWH.” Jesus is not, never was, and never will be YHVH. In no way does what John say suggest that Jesus is any part of a mythical godhed. In Isiah 6:8 we have the plural pronoun “US” (see my reply to this video that starts with “Lest deal with those texts at a time”) meaning more that one person asked Isiah the question. What does it mean that the seraph cleansed the lips of Isaiah? In a symbolic sense, fire has purifying power. When applying the glowing coal from the holy fire of the altar to Isaiah’s lips, the seraph assures Isaiah that his sins have been atoned for to the extent necessary to enable him to receive God’s favour and a commission. Yes Isiah does say that he saw Jehovah on the throne, that does not exclude others from being present. The fact that Gs uses the plural pronoun “US” indicates that Isiah saw other's
If Jesus is Michael the Archangel, how is it that Hebrews 2:8 says, "All things you subjected under his feet.” (NWT), when just three verses back at Hebrews 2:5 God said, "For it is not to angels that he has subjected the inhabited earth to come, about which we are speaking" (NWT)? I would love for anyone who believes Jesus is an angel to answer this.
@@drkKennedyI will be happy to answer this for you. First of all, this is what you have to understand. All spirit sons of God are called Angels. Job 1:6. And thus, all Angels are calls spirit sons of God. And this includes Jesus. Who is also a spirit son of God. But Jesus is a special Angel. He is not just any Angel. Which this scripture was referring to. It is saying that it was not to just any Angel that the earth was subjected to. But subjection was given as a most precious gift to a most precious Angel, Jesus. It is just as when Jesus, while on earth, describes himself as the son of man. But in actuality, he was not just any man, but he was the greatest man who ever lived. Not anyone else can say that about themselves. And so you could say that not to any man can they be called the greatest. But to Jesus, he is the greatest. Meditate on this. Hope this clears it up for you.
This guy has no credibility about questions that Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t answer, until he answers the questions that I put before him. He totally ignored me. And I asked him 3 times to answer my questions.
Question 4: Jesus and Michael are both called the great prince (1 Peter 5:4; Daniel 12:1 Jubilee bible). Does this mean Michael is Jesus? How many great princes are there? Can an angel have the same title as God? If yes, then being called "the first and last" does not prove Jesus is God. If no, then Jesus must be Michael.
@@davidagnew8792 Interesting view point. Unfortunately only Jesus is called God in the Bible (John 1:1; 20:28, 14:8-9; Mat. 1:23; Does that mean you have no answers to the other questions?
@@drkKennedy Jesus is called theos which can mean a god, divine or godlike. Zechariah 12:8 says: Peshitta Holy Bible Translated "and the weak among them in that day will be as David, and the house of David as God (elohiym/theos), as The Angel of LORD JEHOVAH who is in their presence." JPS Tanakh 1917 "And he that stumbleth among them at that day shall be as David; And the house of David shall be as a godlike being, As the angel of the LORD before them." So even people can be elohiym/theos, or as a godlike being, just like the Angel of the LORD, who is Christ. If only Jesus is called God, then you deny that the prophecy at Zechariah 12:8 applies to you. You deny that you are the house of David.
@davidagnew8792 If Jesus is Michael the Archangel, how is it that Hebrews 2:8 says, "All things you subjected under his feet." (NWT), when just three verses back at Hebrews 2:5 God said, "For it is not to angels that he has subjected the inhabited earth to come, about which we are speaking" (NWT)?
@@jeffnoble9757 "If you're having trouble understanding my accent, you might find it helpful to turn on the subtitles. Just click the 'CC' button or go to the settings to enable them."
To answer Colossians 1:16,17 no we do not believe that Jesus created himself nor do were believe that Jesus created the Father. The context of Colossians 1 tells us that thhere are two individuals in view.
Colossians 1 :2 "... from God our Father *and* the Lord Jesus Christ." (KJV) Colossians 1 :3 "We give thanks to God *and* the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," (KJV) The conjunction "AND" separates God the Father from Jesus. Even trinitarians believe that the Father and the Son are two separate and distinct persons. On that we both agree. Now, I have to ask. Where is Jesus? Would you agree that he is in heaven? Also where is “the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," (KJV) Would you agree that he is in heaven? Are both and Jesus visible to any one or ate they invisible to us? Please keep that in mind. Next Colossians 1:15 tells us that Jesus is the firstborn “OF” creation. The word “OF” tells us he is a part OF creation. The word first born has two uses. The vast majority of times it literally means the first one brought forth. In Israel the first born had extra privileges. However those privileges could be take away for the first born and given to a younger son. The younger son then could claim the privilege of first born. Examples are Jacob, Ephraim and David. Though not first born ones, they gained the rights of first born and always remained a part of the group that they were first born *OF* (or belonged to). OK lets look at verse 16 from the KJV (Bold mine) “For *BY* him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him” The first thing is the word “BY”. This is the Greek word “ἐν” which is a primary preposition that is denoting fixed position in place, time or state, and by implication instrumentality medially or constructively, i.e. a relation of rest an intermediate between. Do you get that. Jesus is the instrumentality or intermediate between two things. They are God and [the rest of] creation. Lest keep reading. What was he the intermediate of? Iy is the things created that include the things “... that are in heaven … and invisible” Who is doing the creation here? It is Jesus? Is it his own idea? No, he is an intermediary - carrying out someone elses wishes. What did he create? It include All things that are *_invisible in heaven._* Now we established that there are two individuals being spoken of in Colossians, God who is the father of Jesus and Jesus. God is also in heaven and he is invisible. So now the question is Did Jesus create his father? Yes or No. I am sure you will say NO. So in that case who would you show in the text that Jesus DID NOT CREATE THE FATHER. How about this (Capitals and bold mine) (Colossians 1:15, 16) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn *_OF ALL_* creation; 16 because *_BY MEANS_* of him all *_OTHER_* things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All *_OTHER_* things have been created *_THROUGH_* him and for him.” (NWT) The word *_OTHER_* is correctly added to the text by the NWT as it does not change the meaning at all and it shows that Jesus did not create the Father but all the *_OTHER_* things that he was the intermediary in creating. For an indepth discution on this see drive.google.com/file/d/1V9OX6l4luPS2Zi6iwcWbL3p-4pKHtYry/view?usp=sharing
Your comment raises several important points, particularly regarding Colossians 1:15-17, and I’d like to address these carefully and theologically. 1. Who Is Jesus in Colossians 1? The passage in Colossians 1:15 calls Jesus the “firstborn of all creation,” and this phrase is often misunderstood. You argue that “firstborn” means Jesus is part of creation. However, this interpretation does not align with the biblical context or the meaning of the Greek term prototokos. “Firstborn” Does Not Mean “First Created”: In the Bible, prototokos often refers to rank or preeminence, not chronological order. For example, in Psalm 89:27, God says of David: “I will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth.” David was neither the firstborn son in his family nor the first king, but he was preeminent in authority. Similarly, in Colossians 1:15, “firstborn” means Jesus has supremacy over creation, not that He is part of it. Colossians 1:16-17 Explains “Firstborn”: The very next verse begins with “because,” providing the reason Jesus is called the “firstborn.” Colossians 1:16 (NWT) states: “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation, because by means of him all other things were created…” This “because” is critical. It explains that Jesus has the title “firstborn” because He is the Creator of all things. His preeminence over creation stems from His role as its Maker. He is not part of creation; rather, He has authority over it precisely because He brought it into existence. Jesus Is the Creator, Not Created: Colossians 1:16 explicitly states that all things in heaven and on earth-visible and invisible-were created through Him and for Him. If Jesus created “all things,” He cannot logically be part of creation. This truth is echoed in John 1:3: “Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made.” This reinforces that Jesus is eternal and divine, not a created being. 2. The Misuse of “Other” in the NWT The New World Translation (NWT) inserts the word “other” into Colossians 1:16-17 to suggest that Jesus created “all other things,” implying that He Himself was created. However, this insertion is not found in the original Greek text and changes the meaning of the passage. The Greek Text Does Not Include “Other”: In the original Greek, Colossians 1:16 reads: “For by Him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things were created through Him and for Him.” The addition of “other” is unwarranted and distorts the clear message that Jesus created all things. By adding “other,” the NWT diminishes Jesus’ role as Creator and misrepresents His divine nature. Jesus Is Not Merely an Intermediary: You argue that Jesus was an intermediary, carrying out someone else’s wishes. While Jesus does act in perfect unity with the Father, the text emphasizes His direct and active role in creation. Creation is attributed to Jesus just as much as to the Father. This is consistent with other passages, such as Hebrews 1:2, which states that God made the universe through the Son. 3. Did Jesus Create the Father? You ask whether Jesus created the Father, and the answer is obviously no. However, this is a strawman argument, as neither Trinitarians nor Colossians 1 suggest such a thing. Here’s why: The Father and the Son Are Co-Eternal: Christian doctrine teaches that the Father and the Son are co-eternal within the Trinity. The Son was not created; rather, He is eternally begotten of the Father. Similarly, the Father was not created. Both are equally and eternally divine. Colossians 1:16 Refers to Creation, Not the Father: The passage speaks of the creation of the universe, not of the Father. Jesus’ role as Creator encompasses “all things” in heaven and on earth, whether visible or invisible. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not part of creation; they are the eternal Godhead. 4. Theological Implications of “Firstborn” and the “Because” The word “because” at the start of Colossians 1:16 in the NWT provides an essential insight: Jesus is called the “firstborn of all creation” not because He is part of creation but because He created it. His role as Creator gives Him preeminence and authority over all creation. This understanding aligns perfectly with the biblical context. Jesus is the eternal Son of God, not a created being. His title of “firstborn” emphasizes His supremacy and divine authority as the Creator and sustainer of the universe. Conclusion To summarize: Jesus Is Not Part of Creation: The term “firstborn of all creation” emphasizes Jesus’ preeminence and authority, not His inclusion in creation. Jesus Is the Creator: The passage explicitly states that “all things” were created through Him, leaving no room for the idea that He is part of creation. The NWT Distorts the Text: The addition of “other” is not found in the original Greek and misrepresents the clear teaching of the passage. Jesus’ Supremacy Is Rooted in Creation: Jesus is called “firstborn” because He created all things and has authority over them. The doctrine of the Trinity provides the only coherent explanation of the biblical data. Jesus is not a created intermediary but the eternal Creator, co-equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit. This truth is consistently affirmed throughout Scripture and fully aligns with Colossians 1.
What so of logic are you using. This is the problem of allowing to be taught everything without personal effort: Read this passage from NIV starting from verse 37 to 41 of John 12:41; Belief and Unbelief Among the Jews 37Even after Jesus had performed so many signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him. 38This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet: “Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” h 39For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere: 40“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts nor turn-and I would heal them.” i 41Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.
Most truly I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.q John 13:16 . Jesus was SENT BY GOD - and called as SERVANT OF GOD. Acts 4:27 WHO IS OVER ALL? Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. GOD and FATHER is OVER/ABOVE ALL and that "All" includes the SON so they are NOT EQUAL THE BIBLE teaches that Jesus was MADE As Lord and Christ and as Son (ACTS 2:36, Prov 8, HEB 1:5), CREATED/PRODUCED/INSTALLED (Prov 8) , COME INTO BEING/MADE (Mat 21:42 - egeneto) and GIVEN LIFE by the Father - John 5:26 and it uses TODAY (Heb 1:5), and uses future tenses and is a prophecy in Isa 9:6 (Isa 9:6, - WILL BE) . If you are called MADE AND CREATED AND GIVEN LIFE, and NEVER CALLED in the BIBLE as Creator or Maker , then you are A CREATION. ALL FROM THE BIBLE From the Lord was this (this is referring to the chief cornerstone who is Jesus) , the word WAS is egeneto (made or came into being) - Matthew 21:42 and the exact Greek word used in John 1:3 - MADE, egeneto (came into being) - JESUS WAS MADE/CAME INTO BEING FROM THE FATHER , yes, Jesus was MADE/CREATED!, See also Acts 2:36, Heb 1:5, 1 john 5 Jesus in FACT mentioned the FATHER IS GREATER than I am. JOhn 14:28. BEFORE he WAS SENT, the Father is ALSO GREATER than Jesus. Most truly I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.q John 13:16 . Jesus was SENT BY GOD - and called as SERVANT OF GOD. Acts 4:27 AFTER his resurrection the FATHER IS STILL GREATER than Jesus - WHO IS OVER ALL? Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. GOD and FATHER is OVER/ABOVE ALL and that "All" includes the SON so they are NOT EQUAL
The 1,800-year-old mosaic had an ancient Greek inscription which read, The god-loving Akeptous has offered the table to God Jesus Christ as a memorial. The earliest inscription of 'Jesus is God' was found on the floor of an Israeli prison and has been put on display in the United States. The discovery has been called "the greatest discovery since the Dead Sea Scrolls" by the researchers.❤✝️🙏
@@shortflims2165 Rev 21:5,6 the Alpha and Omega is the ONE SEATED on the Throne. He is different than Jesus who is the Lamb, who is STANDING in the midst of the throne. Rev 5:6 - And I saw STANDING in the midst* of the throne and of the four living creatures and in the midst of the elders+ a LAMB+ that seemed to have been slaughtered,+ Understand the difference between the ONE SEATED ON THE THRONE WHO IS THE ALPHA AND OMEGA and who gave the Scroll to the LAMB VS the ONE STANDING in the midst of the throne , the LAMB, who RECEIVED THE SCROLL from THE ALPHA AND OMEGA WHO WAS SEATED ON THE THRONE
Well done, Dr K!
I appreciate your work on opening the eyes of JWs.
@@davidmcbrine4527 Thank you very much. Unfortunately, many JWs minds are closed with glue of their religion to see anything!
@@drkKennedy Yes, I know only too well.
I was a JW for 60 years, so I am well aware of the mind control.
Just keep swinging, you'll get a hit once in a while.
@@davidmcbrine4527 Jesus is not God
@@ScottPreterist Ha ha, where did that come from?
Did I say that He is?
You are obviously just a troll looking for a fight.
GO AWAY!
@@davidmcbrine4527 so who is Jesus?
More Grace Sir
Thank you
Powerful teaching sir.
Thank you
I had confrontations with nearly 20 JW in USA and in Egypt and none of them ever could answer my question: "Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus is archangel Michael? " They either immediately ran away or gave me irrelevant Bible verses that I so easily refuted. In Hebrews 1 it explicitly says that Jesus is not an angel and in countless verses it says that he is God, The Son of God, and the son of Man.
@@rafikgl That is a Great Question, thanks!
Most truly I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.q John 13:16 . Jesus was SENT BY GOD - and called as SERVANT OF GOD. Acts 4:27
WHO IS OVER ALL? Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. GOD and FATHER is OVER/ABOVE ALL and that "All" includes the SON so they are NOT EQUAL
THE BIBLE teaches that Jesus was MADE As Lord and Christ and as Son (ACTS 2:36, Prov 8, HEB 1:5), CREATED/PRODUCED/INSTALLED (Prov 8) , COME INTO BEING/MADE (Mat 21:42 - egeneto) and GIVEN LIFE by the Father - John 5:26 and it uses TODAY (Heb 1:5), and uses future tenses and is a prophecy in Isa 9:6 (Isa 9:6, - WILL BE) . If you are called MADE AND CREATED AND GIVEN LIFE, and NEVER CALLED in the BIBLE as Creator or Maker , then you are A CREATION. ALL FROM THE BIBLE
From the Lord was this (this is referring to the chief cornerstone who is Jesus) , the word WAS is egeneto (made or came into being) - Matthew 21:42 and the exact Greek word used in John 1:3 - MADE, egeneto (came into being) - JESUS WAS MADE/CAME INTO BEING FROM THE FATHER , yes, Jesus was MADE/CREATED!, See also Acts 2:36, Heb 1:5, 1 john 5
Jesus in FACT mentioned the FATHER IS GREATER than I am. JOhn 14:28. BEFORE he WAS SENT, the Father is ALSO GREATER than Jesus.
Most truly I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.q John 13:16 . Jesus was SENT BY GOD - and called as SERVANT OF GOD. Acts 4:27
AFTER his resurrection the FATHER IS STILL GREATER than Jesus - WHO IS OVER ALL? Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. GOD and FATHER is OVER/ABOVE ALL and that "All" includes the SON so they are NOT EQUAL
@mr.d.c.1914.1 Jesus was ascended in heaven in his glorious body and sits at the right hand of God after he defeated Satan. Jesus' resurrection is considered a victory over death, satan and sin. Paul wrote that the dead in Christ will rise first and then be transformed into the likeness of Jesus' glorious body. Philippians 2:9-11 states that Jesus is equal with God, and that all people should honor Jesus as they honor God.
John 5:22-23 states:
John 5:22: "For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son"
John 5:23: "That all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him"
@@shortflims2165 Of course Jesus was resurrected and that's what JWs teach as well. Phil 29 does not say that Jesus is equal to God. Even Eph 4:6 said that the FATHER IS OVER ALL.
@mr.d.c.1914.1 The Bible says that Jesus is equal to God:
John 5:18: Jesus claims to be equal with God by calling God his Father.
Philippians 2:5-7: Jesus had equal status with God, but didn't think so much of himself that he had to cling to the advantages of that status.
John 1:1-5: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God".
Isaiah 9:6: The prophet Isaiah declared that Jesus was God.
1 Timothy 3:16: Jesus is both God's Son and God Himself-God in human flesh.
Colossians 2:9: Jesus was fully man, but He was also fully God.
The Bible also teaches that Jesus submits himself to the Father, but this does not mean that he is inferior. He does so willingly, out of love.
What a great channel !!!!!! I subscribed 😊
@@TheJbrammo Thank you very much!
I will address these questions in separate posts.
1) Who did Isaiah see in Isaiah 6:1-10?
Answer: He saw Jehovah God and Jesus Christ. This is evident by John 12:38-41 in connection to Isaiah 6:8.
What is the basis of your response? You need to justify your answer with theological evidence not just anything that comes to your kind.
@drkennedy,
I provided Isaiah 6:8 in connection to John 12:38-41. When Isaiah witnessed Jehovah’s glory, John informs us Isaiah also witnessed Jehovah’s son’s (Jesus) glory, for he is one of the “us” in both scriptures.
@MC-sd1uy so, where is Jesus in Isaiah 6?
Only the Lord’s glory is spoken of in Isaiah, of JW has inserted the word Jehovah which is not the name of God as you claim but an evolution of the mediaval age!
@drkennedy,
As I already mentioned in my previous comment, Jesus is inferred at Isaiah 6:8.
When Jehovah said “who will go for us”, it is deduced the Son must have been present next to the Father, thus Isaiah must have seen the Son’s glory as well, just as it is confirmed at John 12:38-41.
Remember: Jesus in his pre-human life had glory alongside his Father, Jehovah (John 17:5).
Lest deal with those texts at a time. First In Isaiah 6. The answer as to whom Isua saw can be found in verse 8 "“Whom shall I send, and who will go *for US?"*. The use of the plural pronoun "US" indicates that Isiah saw more than Just the LORD _(which is Jehovah)_ Jehovah alone was the God that Isaiah worshipped. Isaiah had no idea about a tri-unity god, just the one individual person being that he knew as Jehovah.
But here in this verse there is more than one that is aching the question. To Isiah the “US” probably included the messiah to come, as much of what Isiah wrote was bout the messiah. So it is reasonable to conclude that when John wrote that Isaiah “saw his glory,” we can conclude that Isiah was speaking of both God and the Messiah. Also the use of the pronoun “US” by Isiah harmonies with such scriptures as Ge 1:26, where God said: “Let us make man in our image.”
Also in John 1:14 John already records for is that Jesus has glory that belongs to the only begotten son.
John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” (KJV)
John 1:14 “So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth.” (NWT)
Isaiah was given a vision of Christ the LORD.
Christ the King.
Christ, the LORD of hosts.
@@mattmurdock2868 WHere does the text in Isiah identify Christ. By the way Chrsit is Lord not the LORD. The LORD is the God that Jesus worshipped.
Apologies for not responding to your comments but I have had a busy day. Because of the issues you have raised. I have a somewhat long response. I know we are coming from different theological backgrounds but here are the challenges with your response:
1. Addressing Isaiah 6:8 and the use of “Us”
Your argument hinges on the plural pronoun "Us" in Isaiah 6:8, suggesting that Isaiah saw "more than just the LORD (Jehovah)," which could include the Messiah. However, this interpretation inadvertently supports the very idea you seem to reject-namely, that the "Us" indicates a plurality within the divine being, which aligns with the doctrine of the Trinity.
The plurality of "Us" in Isaiah 6:8 is consistent with other texts where God refers to Himself in plural terms, such as Genesis 1:26 ("Let us make man in our image"). While Jehovah’s Witnesses interpret this as God speaking to angels, this cannot hold, as humanity is made in God’s image, not in the image of God and angels. The plurality in these texts points to the multi-personal nature of God, further revealed in the New Testament through the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Moreover, the context of Isaiah 6 does not indicate that Isaiah saw more than one divine being. The focus remains on the glory of the LORD (Jehovah). The "Us" in Isaiah 6:8 is consistent with the intra-Trinitarian dialogue seen throughout Scripture, and John 12:41 explicitly identifies the one Isaiah saw as Jesus. Let’s explore this further.
2. John 12:38-41: Who did Isaiah see?
John 12:38-41 unequivocally states that the glory Isaiah saw in Isaiah 6 was Jesus' glory. Here is the relevant passage:
John 12:41 (KJV): “These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.”
John 12:41 (NWT): “Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory, and he spoke about him.”
The context of John 12 is crucial. John is explaining why many Jews did not believe in Jesus, quoting Isaiah 53:1 and Isaiah 6:10 to show that their unbelief was prophesied. He concludes by stating that Isaiah spoke of Jesus’ glory in Isaiah 6. If Isaiah 6:1-10 describes the vision of Jehovah’s glory, and John applies this to Jesus, then the only logical conclusion is that Jesus is Jehovah-not a separate being, but fully God.
Your suggestion that Isaiah saw "both God and the Messiah" adds complexity that is not in the text. The Hebrew text of Isaiah 6 focuses solely on the LORD (Jehovah). The apostle John, under divine inspiration, applies this vision specifically to Jesus, identifying Him as the one whose glory Isaiah saw. This supports the Christian doctrine of the deity of Christ.
3. Isaiah’s Knowledge of the Messiah and the Trinity
You assert that Isaiah only knew Jehovah and had no concept of a "tri-unity god." While it’s true that the Old Testament does not explicitly define the Trinity, it lays the groundwork for this revelation. Isaiah’s prophecy frequently refers to the coming Messiah as divine. For example:
Isaiah 9:6 calls the Messiah “Mighty God” (El Gibbor) and “Everlasting Father” (Avi’ad), titles that belong to Jehovah alone.
Isaiah 7:14 describes the Messiah as “Immanuel,” meaning “God with us.”
Thus, while Isaiah may not have fully understood the Trinity as revealed in the New Testament, his writings point to the multi-personal nature of God, fulfilled in Jesus Christ. John 12:41 clarifies that the one Isaiah saw in his vision of Jehovah’s glory was indeed Jesus.
4. The Glory of Jesus (John 1:14)
You reference John 1:14, which states that the Word (Jesus) became flesh and revealed His glory. This does not contradict John 12:41-it complements it. John 1:14 highlights the incarnation of Jesus, where His divine glory was revealed to His followers. John 12:41, on the other hand, shows that this same Jesus is the eternal Jehovah whose glory Isaiah saw.
Your interpretation that Isaiah "saw both God and the Messiah" diminishes the full deity of Jesus. John 1:14 and John 12:41 do not depict Jesus as a lesser being beside Jehovah; they present Him as the Word who was with God and was God (John 1:1). Isaiah 6 and John’s writings together affirm Jesus’ divine identity and equality with the Father.
Conclusion
To summarize:
The "Us" in Isaiah 6:8 aligns with the Trinitarian nature of God, not separate beings.
John 12:38-41 explicitly states that the glory Isaiah saw in Isaiah 6 was the glory of Jesus, identifying Him as Jehovah.
Isaiah’s writings consistently point to the Messiah’s divinity, and John’s gospel affirms this truth.
Your argument inadvertently strengthens the case for the Trinity rather than undermining it.
Jesus is not merely a representative of Jehovah-He is Jehovah, the one Isaiah saw seated on the throne, high and exalted.
@watchtowerdefence571
Yes Christ is "Lord."
"In the year King Uzziah died. I saw the *Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up..."
Is.6:1
Isaiah was given a vision of Christ the LORD, in His glory.
Christ is also LORD of hosts and He is King.
@@watchtowerdefence571
The titles shared by Father and Son, "LORD" and "God."
Isaiah saw JEHOVAH AND his heavenly servants he did not see JEHOVAH alone as you are insinuating one of those servants performed a priestly service for Isaiah that cleansed him of his guilt and rendered him fit for JEHOVAH'S Service,
Isaiah ch.6:6,7NKJV"Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a live coal which he had taken with the tongs from the altar. 7And he touched my mouth with it, and said:
“Behold, this has touched your lips;
Your iniquity is taken away,
And your sin [b]purged.”"
So have here a prophetic type Christ's priestly role a heavenly messenger who priestly service renders us fit for JEHOVAH'S Service.
I appreciate your attempt to answer this question. However, there are serious challenges in your analytical response because it contains some misunderstandings about the biblical texts in question. Let me address the points in detail, focusing on the context and theology behind John 12:41 and Isaiah 6:1-7.
The Glory Seen by Isaiah: Jehovah or Jesus?
John's Testimony (John 12:41)
John clearly states, “Isaiah said these things because he saw His glory and spoke of Him.” The "Him" in context refers to Jesus Christ. Earlier in John 12, John quotes two passages from Isaiah (Isaiah 53:1 and Isaiah 6:9-10), applying them directly to Jesus. John's conclusion is that the glory Isaiah saw was Jesus's glory.
This interpretation makes sense within the broader framework of Christian theology, which identifies Jesus as the visible manifestation of God's glory. John 1:18 supports this: “No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.”
Isaiah 6: Jehovah Enthroned
In Isaiah 6:1, Isaiah describes seeing "the Lord" (in Hebrew, Adonai), seated on a throne, high and lifted up. The train of His robe fills the temple, and the seraphim call out, “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts [YHWH]; the whole earth is full of His glory!” Isaiah explicitly identifies the figure as YHWH.
This vision does not negate John's assertion that Isaiah saw Jesus's glory. Instead, it aligns with the Christian understanding of Jesus as fully divine and one with the Father. When Isaiah saw Jehovah, he was beholding the pre-incarnate Christ, who is the perfect image of God (Colossians 1:15, Hebrews 1:3).
The Role of the Seraphim
The argument raised in the response you shared emphasizes the role of the seraphim in cleansing Isaiah's sin. Let's clarify:
Seraphim as Servants, Not Mediators
The seraphim in Isaiah 6:6-7 act as servants of God, performing a priestly task. However, they do so at Jehovah's command. The live coal comes from the altar, symbolizing divine atonement, not the seraph's own power or authority. The cleansing is ultimately from Jehovah, mediated through the actions of the seraph.
A Prophetic Foreshadowing of Christ
While the seraph's act of cleansing Isaiah can be seen as a foreshadowing of Christ's priestly work, it does not diminish the fact that the one seated on the throne is Jehovah Himself. In Christian theology, Jesus fulfills the role of the ultimate High Priest (Hebrews 4:14-16), but this does not contradict the understanding that He is also Jehovah, the one Isaiah saw.
Reconciling the Texts
The claim that Isaiah only saw Jehovah and His heavenly court, rather than Jehovah Himself, misrepresents both the passage and John's interpretation. Isaiah is explicit in stating that he saw Jehovah enthroned, and John affirms that this was a vision of Jesus's glory. The role of the seraphim in the vision highlights God's holiness and the need for cleansing to approach Him, pointing forward to the ultimate cleansing provided by Christ.
Conclusion
The argument that Isaiah only saw "Jehovah's heavenly servants" fails to account for the plain reading of the text in Isaiah 6 and the inspired interpretation given by John in John 12:41. Isaiah saw Jehovah in all His glory, and John identifies this glory with Jesus, affirming His divine nature and unity with the Father.
@@drkKennedy no actually the text quoted john ch.12:38 is from from isaiah ch.53 specifically refers to the servant mediator there is where isaiah spoke of jesus glory not isaiah 6 your attempt to claim that mediator and servant are mutually exclusive terms fail,there is no difficulty in referring to christ as an angel in fact he is repeatedly depicted s an angel,JEHOVAH can't mediate with himself as it negates the dictionary definition of the word the mediator with JEHOVAH Must be a creature,The angels are manifestations of JEHOVAH'S Glory man is called JEHOVAH'S Glory with no implication of equality with his God and Father see 1Corinthians ch.11:7
@@drkKennedy John 12 does not equate Jesus with the LORD (Jehovah) of Isiah 6 or 53
Jesus has a God that he served (John 20:17) The New Testament consistency calls God “the *_God and Father of_* our Lord Jesus Christ,” (see 2 Corinthians 11:31; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 4:6; 1 Peter 1:3 [JKV])
Yes John saw the glory of Jesus along with the glory of God (see my reply to this video that starts with “Lest deal with those texts at a time”)
Yes John quoted Isiah 53:1
(John 12:36-38) “ 36 Jesus said these things and went off and hid from them. 37 Although he had performed so many signs before them, they were not putting faith in him, 38 so that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, who said: “Jehovah, who has put faith in the thing heard from us? And as for *the arm of Jehovah,* to whom has it been revealed?”
The Hebrew and Greek terms for arm are often used figuratively in the Bible to represent the ability to exert strength or power. Through the signs and miracles that Jesus performed, Jehovah [the God of Jesus] revealed His “arm,” His might and ability to exercise power.
The “arm” of Jehovah God is immeasurably powerful, able to do marvelous creative works. (Jer 27:5; 32:17) By his “arm” Jehovah also rules (Isa 40:10; Eze 20:33), saves those in distress (Ps 44:3; Isa 52:10), delivers his people (Ex 6:6; Isa 63:12; Ac 13:17), supports and cares for them (De 33:27; Isa 40:11; Ho 11:3), judges (Isa 51:5), and scatters his enemies. Through Jesus Christ, clothed with authority and power and acting as Judge and Executioner, Jehovah manifests His might, represented by His “arm.”
You are correct for John 1:18 says no man has ever seen God. The text says God not the Father. Humans saw Jesus there fore he is not God. The text says God not the Father.
In Isiah 6:1 the word adonay (lord or master) is a reference to Jehovah NOT to Jesus. That is supported by verse 3 where the seraphim call out “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD [YHWH] of hosts; the whole earth is full of His glory!” Did you notice that even the whole earth is full of the glory of God. That means the heaves were also full of his glory You even get that correct for you say “Isaiah explicitly identifies the figure as YHWH.” Jesus is not, never was, and never will be YHVH.
In no way does what John say suggest that Jesus is any part of a mythical godhed. In Isiah 6:8 we have the plural pronoun “US” (see my reply to this video that starts with “Lest deal with those texts at a time”) meaning more that one person asked Isiah the question.
What does it mean that the seraph cleansed the lips of Isaiah? In a symbolic sense, fire has purifying power. When applying the glowing coal from the holy fire of the altar to Isaiah’s lips, the seraph assures Isaiah that his sins have been atoned for to the extent necessary to enable him to receive God’s favour and a commission.
Yes Isiah does say that he saw Jehovah on the throne, that does not exclude others from being present. The fact that Gs uses the plural pronoun “US” indicates that Isiah saw other's
They answer all of muy questions, even the Most difficult ones
Allow God reveal the true nature of Jesus Ask Jesus to make reveal his true nature.
@@seanrathmakedisciples1508 Amen
If Jesus is Michael the Archangel, how is it that Hebrews 2:8 says, "All things you subjected under his feet.” (NWT), when just three verses back at Hebrews 2:5 God said, "For it is not to angels that he has subjected the inhabited earth to come, about which we are speaking" (NWT)?
I would love for anyone who believes Jesus is an angel to answer this.
Powerful!
@@drkKennedyI will be happy to answer this for you. First of all, this is what you have to understand. All spirit sons of God are called Angels. Job 1:6. And thus, all Angels are calls spirit sons of God. And this includes Jesus. Who is also a spirit son of God. But Jesus is a special Angel. He is not just any Angel. Which this scripture was referring to. It is saying that it was not to just any Angel that the earth was subjected to. But subjection was given as a most precious gift to a most precious Angel, Jesus. It is just as when Jesus, while on earth, describes himself as the son of man. But in actuality, he was not just any man, but he was the greatest man who ever lived. Not anyone else can say that about themselves. And so you could say that not to any man can they be called the greatest. But to Jesus, he is the greatest. Meditate on this. Hope this clears it up for you.
There is no trinity in the Bible
This guy has no credibility about questions that Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t answer, until he answers the questions that I put before him. He totally ignored me. And I asked him 3 times to answer my questions.
@MrRklewis it is dishonest saying JWs can't answer
Are you an african muslim by any chance? Just curious. 😊
Still waiting a response.
Question 4:
Jesus and Michael are both called the great prince (1 Peter 5:4; Daniel 12:1 Jubilee bible).
Does this mean Michael is Jesus?
How many great princes are there? Can an angel have the same title as God?
If yes, then being called "the first and last" does not prove Jesus is God.
If no, then Jesus must be Michael.
The archangel is the first and the last of our salvation
@@davidagnew8792 Interesting view point. Unfortunately only Jesus is called God in the Bible (John 1:1; 20:28, 14:8-9; Mat. 1:23; Does that mean you have no answers to the other questions?
@@drkKennedy called God by name only
@@drkKennedy
Jesus is called theos which can mean a god, divine or godlike.
Zechariah 12:8 says:
Peshitta Holy Bible Translated
"and the weak among them in that day will be as David, and the house of David as God (elohiym/theos), as The Angel of LORD JEHOVAH who is in their presence."
JPS Tanakh 1917
"And he that stumbleth among them at that day shall be as David; And the house of David shall be as a godlike being, As the angel of the LORD before them."
So even people can be elohiym/theos, or as a godlike being, just like the Angel of the LORD, who is Christ.
If only Jesus is called God, then you deny that the prophecy at Zechariah 12:8 applies to you. You deny that you are the house of David.
@davidagnew8792 If Jesus is Michael the Archangel, how is it that Hebrews 2:8 says, "All things you subjected under his feet." (NWT), when just three verses back at Hebrews 2:5 God said, "For it is not to angels that he has subjected the inhabited earth to come, about which we are speaking" (NWT)?
use subtitles you're a hard to understand
@@jeffnoble9757 "If you're having trouble understanding my accent, you might find it helpful to turn on the subtitles. Just click the 'CC' button or go to the settings to enable them."
To answer Colossians 1:16,17 no we do not believe that Jesus created himself nor do were believe that Jesus created the Father. The context of Colossians 1 tells us that thhere are two individuals in view.
Colossians 1 :2 "... from God our Father *and* the Lord Jesus Christ." (KJV)
Colossians 1 :3 "We give thanks to God *and* the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," (KJV)
The conjunction "AND" separates God the Father from Jesus.
Even trinitarians believe that the Father and the Son are two separate and distinct persons. On that we both agree.
Now, I have to ask. Where is Jesus? Would you agree that he is in heaven? Also where is “the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," (KJV) Would you agree that he is in heaven? Are both and Jesus visible to any one or ate they invisible to us? Please keep that in mind.
Next Colossians 1:15 tells us that Jesus is the firstborn “OF” creation. The word “OF” tells us he is a part OF creation. The word first born has two uses. The vast majority of times it literally means the first one brought forth. In Israel the first born had extra privileges. However those privileges could be take away for the first born and given to a younger son. The younger son then could claim the privilege of first born. Examples are Jacob, Ephraim and David. Though not first born ones, they gained the rights of first born and always remained a part of the group that they were first born *OF* (or belonged to).
OK lets look at verse 16 from the KJV (Bold mine)
“For *BY* him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him”
The first thing is the word “BY”. This is the Greek word “ἐν” which is a primary preposition that is denoting fixed position in place, time or state, and by implication instrumentality medially or constructively, i.e. a relation of rest an intermediate between.
Do you get that. Jesus is the instrumentality or intermediate between two things. They are God and [the rest of] creation. Lest keep reading. What was he the intermediate of? Iy is the things created that include the things “... that are in heaven … and invisible”
Who is doing the creation here? It is Jesus? Is it his own idea? No, he is an intermediary - carrying out someone elses wishes. What did he create? It include All things that are *_invisible in heaven._* Now we established that there are two individuals being spoken of in Colossians, God who is the father of Jesus and Jesus. God is also in heaven and he is invisible. So now the question is Did Jesus create his father? Yes or No.
I am sure you will say NO. So in that case who would you show in the text that Jesus DID NOT CREATE THE FATHER.
How about this (Capitals and bold mine)
(Colossians 1:15, 16) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn *_OF ALL_* creation; 16 because *_BY MEANS_* of him all *_OTHER_* things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All *_OTHER_* things have been created *_THROUGH_* him and for him.” (NWT)
The word *_OTHER_* is correctly added to the text by the NWT as it does not change the meaning at all and it shows that Jesus did not create the Father but all the *_OTHER_* things that he was the intermediary in creating.
For an indepth discution on this see
drive.google.com/file/d/1V9OX6l4luPS2Zi6iwcWbL3p-4pKHtYry/view?usp=sharing
Your comment raises several important points, particularly regarding Colossians 1:15-17, and I’d like to address these carefully and theologically.
1. Who Is Jesus in Colossians 1?
The passage in Colossians 1:15 calls Jesus the “firstborn of all creation,” and this phrase is often misunderstood. You argue that “firstborn” means Jesus is part of creation. However, this interpretation does not align with the biblical context or the meaning of the Greek term prototokos.
“Firstborn” Does Not Mean “First Created”:
In the Bible, prototokos often refers to rank or preeminence, not chronological order. For example, in Psalm 89:27, God says of David:
“I will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth.”
David was neither the firstborn son in his family nor the first king, but he was preeminent in authority. Similarly, in Colossians 1:15, “firstborn” means Jesus has supremacy over creation, not that He is part of it.
Colossians 1:16-17 Explains “Firstborn”:
The very next verse begins with “because,” providing the reason Jesus is called the “firstborn.” Colossians 1:16 (NWT) states:
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation, because by means of him all other things were created…”
This “because” is critical. It explains that Jesus has the title “firstborn” because He is the Creator of all things. His preeminence over creation stems from His role as its Maker. He is not part of creation; rather, He has authority over it precisely because He brought it into existence.
Jesus Is the Creator, Not Created:
Colossians 1:16 explicitly states that all things in heaven and on earth-visible and invisible-were created through Him and for Him. If Jesus created “all things,” He cannot logically be part of creation. This truth is echoed in John 1:3:
“Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made.”
This reinforces that Jesus is eternal and divine, not a created being.
2. The Misuse of “Other” in the NWT
The New World Translation (NWT) inserts the word “other” into Colossians 1:16-17 to suggest that Jesus created “all other things,” implying that He Himself was created. However, this insertion is not found in the original Greek text and changes the meaning of the passage.
The Greek Text Does Not Include “Other”:
In the original Greek, Colossians 1:16 reads:
“For by Him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things were created through Him and for Him.”
The addition of “other” is unwarranted and distorts the clear message that Jesus created all things. By adding “other,” the NWT diminishes Jesus’ role as Creator and misrepresents His divine nature.
Jesus Is Not Merely an Intermediary:
You argue that Jesus was an intermediary, carrying out someone else’s wishes. While Jesus does act in perfect unity with the Father, the text emphasizes His direct and active role in creation. Creation is attributed to Jesus just as much as to the Father. This is consistent with other passages, such as Hebrews 1:2, which states that God made the universe through the Son.
3. Did Jesus Create the Father?
You ask whether Jesus created the Father, and the answer is obviously no. However, this is a strawman argument, as neither Trinitarians nor Colossians 1 suggest such a thing. Here’s why:
The Father and the Son Are Co-Eternal:
Christian doctrine teaches that the Father and the Son are co-eternal within the Trinity. The Son was not created; rather, He is eternally begotten of the Father. Similarly, the Father was not created. Both are equally and eternally divine.
Colossians 1:16 Refers to Creation, Not the Father:
The passage speaks of the creation of the universe, not of the Father. Jesus’ role as Creator encompasses “all things” in heaven and on earth, whether visible or invisible. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not part of creation; they are the eternal Godhead.
4. Theological Implications of “Firstborn” and the “Because”
The word “because” at the start of Colossians 1:16 in the NWT provides an essential insight: Jesus is called the “firstborn of all creation” not because He is part of creation but because He created it. His role as Creator gives Him preeminence and authority over all creation.
This understanding aligns perfectly with the biblical context. Jesus is the eternal Son of God, not a created being. His title of “firstborn” emphasizes His supremacy and divine authority as the Creator and sustainer of the universe.
Conclusion
To summarize:
Jesus Is Not Part of Creation: The term “firstborn of all creation” emphasizes Jesus’ preeminence and authority, not His inclusion in creation.
Jesus Is the Creator: The passage explicitly states that “all things” were created through Him, leaving no room for the idea that He is part of creation.
The NWT Distorts the Text: The addition of “other” is not found in the original Greek and misrepresents the clear teaching of the passage.
Jesus’ Supremacy Is Rooted in Creation: Jesus is called “firstborn” because He created all things and has authority over them.
The doctrine of the Trinity provides the only coherent explanation of the biblical data. Jesus is not a created intermediary but the eternal Creator, co-equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit. This truth is consistently affirmed throughout Scripture and fully aligns with Colossians 1.
What proof do you have that your interpretation of the Bible is correct and true?
You gave good scripture to explain your views. In some areas you could even add more bible proof. Well done
DALEX, HE EXPLAIN IT WELL
So Jesus is Isaiah? Jesus fulfilled what Isaiah did before? ....Hebrews 2:13 says Jesus is Isaiah, which quotes Isaiah 8:18.
What so of logic are you using. This is the problem of allowing to be taught everything without personal effort: Read this passage from NIV starting from verse 37 to 41 of John 12:41; Belief and Unbelief Among the Jews
37Even after Jesus had performed so many signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him. 38This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet:
“Lord, who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” h
39For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:
40“He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their hearts,
so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts nor turn-and I would heal them.” i 41Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.
Most truly I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.q John 13:16 . Jesus was SENT BY GOD - and called as SERVANT OF GOD. Acts 4:27
WHO IS OVER ALL? Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. GOD and FATHER is OVER/ABOVE ALL and that "All" includes the SON so they are NOT EQUAL
THE BIBLE teaches that Jesus was MADE As Lord and Christ and as Son (ACTS 2:36, Prov 8, HEB 1:5), CREATED/PRODUCED/INSTALLED (Prov 8) , COME INTO BEING/MADE (Mat 21:42 - egeneto) and GIVEN LIFE by the Father - John 5:26 and it uses TODAY (Heb 1:5), and uses future tenses and is a prophecy in Isa 9:6 (Isa 9:6, - WILL BE) . If you are called MADE AND CREATED AND GIVEN LIFE, and NEVER CALLED in the BIBLE as Creator or Maker , then you are A CREATION. ALL FROM THE BIBLE
From the Lord was this (this is referring to the chief cornerstone who is Jesus) , the word WAS is egeneto (made or came into being) - Matthew 21:42 and the exact Greek word used in John 1:3 - MADE, egeneto (came into being) - JESUS WAS MADE/CAME INTO BEING FROM THE FATHER , yes, Jesus was MADE/CREATED!, See also Acts 2:36, Heb 1:5, 1 john 5
Jesus in FACT mentioned the FATHER IS GREATER than I am. JOhn 14:28. BEFORE he WAS SENT, the Father is ALSO GREATER than Jesus.
Most truly I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.q John 13:16 . Jesus was SENT BY GOD - and called as SERVANT OF GOD. Acts 4:27
AFTER his resurrection the FATHER IS STILL GREATER than Jesus - WHO IS OVER ALL? Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. GOD and FATHER is OVER/ABOVE ALL and that "All" includes the SON so they are NOT EQUAL
The 1,800-year-old mosaic had an ancient Greek inscription which read, The god-loving Akeptous has offered the table to God Jesus Christ as a memorial.
The earliest inscription of 'Jesus is God' was found on the floor of an Israeli prison and has been put on display in the United States. The discovery has been called "the greatest discovery since the Dead Sea Scrolls" by the researchers.❤✝️🙏
@@shortflims2165 does not mean it is correct. many things are written in the old days, are all correct? nope
@mr.d.c.1914.1 Revelation 1:8
Lord God says, “I am Alpha and Omega, the one who is and was and is coming. I am God All-Powerful!”❤✝️🙏
@@shortflims2165 Rev 21:5,6 the Alpha and Omega is the ONE SEATED on the Throne. He is different than Jesus who is the Lamb, who is STANDING in the midst of the throne. Rev 5:6 - And I saw STANDING in the midst* of the throne and of the four living creatures and in the midst of the elders+ a LAMB+ that seemed to have been slaughtered,+ Understand the difference between the ONE SEATED ON THE THRONE WHO IS THE ALPHA AND OMEGA and who gave the Scroll to the LAMB VS the ONE STANDING in the midst of the throne , the LAMB, who RECEIVED THE SCROLL from THE ALPHA AND OMEGA WHO WAS SEATED ON THE THRONE
@@mr.d.c.1914.1God the Father does not have a distinct, personal name. YHWH (Yahweh or Jehovah) is the name of the Triune God as a whole.