Sometimes a novel can be controversial for the path it takes in extrapolating the present, its present at the time of writing. I think it is worth discussing. My request is that the discourse be respectful of each other's perspectives. I like to think ideas are a journey, not a fortress to defend.
There's a big difference between extrapolating the present and presenting an ideologically tilted point of view. One is legitimate alternate history based on an understanding of current and historical facts, the other is a screed.
@@marsrock316 Science Fiction is about learning, Marsrock. JWC Jr published early RAH - mostly conservative, he also published Asimov's Foundation series - mostly liberal, then Herbert's Dune - anything and everything, besides a massive catalog of short stories and novels. Same thing with Fred Pohl and Lester del Rey. Their editorship of Worlds of If thru the late 1960s was great stuff. SF should encourage researching all disciplines for yourself. Not everyone will reach the same conclusions. A monolithic fictional presentation of history or the future does an injustice to the fans, especially the youth. Present all sides, humans have a right to make their own determinations and not just in SF.
@@joebrooks4448 I have done exactly that, made my own determination, as have many others in regard to a novel that is political axe-grinding to an extreme. You don't seem to have a comprehensive view of Simmons' career. He's acceptable as a conservative and even libertarian, but he went way beyond that with Flashback. I think he was actually a good, talented writer. I read the Hyperion series and liked Ilium, as I said elsewhere, before his derangement set in. Learning about different views is a very different matter from being dismissive of extreme views. It is disingenuous to promote a novel featuring the obliteration of Israel in nuclear fire and blaming Jews for creating the flashback drug. Who's the real culprit? Feudal and criminal Japanese elements (who knows why; not sure Simmons does) that are fighting the great threat to world order: a global Caliphate. So America falls apart because of Obama's policies (he's ultimately the big bad cause of American collapse) and only Japan can save us from the threatening Islamic hordes? This is stupidly insane. There's very little worth considering seriously here. Please stop being dismissive of a political tract disguised as a very bad novel.
@@marsrock316 You just made my point. You made your own determination. Should that be called "derangement?" You should not attempt to bar others from making their own determinations. That is a basic right in a free socety. You are free to express your thoughts, so is Simmons and everyone else. This is the First Amendment. First for obvious reasons.
i just finished this one last week. it was the first slog i have encountered from Simmons. i reckon there had to be one sooner or later. i did finish it and celebrated with some hi-power cannabis. back in the 70's we were warned about 'flashbacks' that never arrived.
Great review, Richard! Thanks for the mentions! I will not ask about the end, as that would be a spoiler. I have read many reviews on this novel, it is about 50/50 on the ending. I am in the pragmatic camp.
In April 2006 Dan Simmons published on the internet an insane short story about evil Islam defeating the USA. This novel, Flashback, seems like it is a development from that.
Simmons was never a writer I liked so I haven't read 'Flashback'. From you description, it sounds like he is still carrying on the Islamiphobia of the 80s and 90s. After the oil embargo of the 70s, there was a concern about the growing wealth of the Islamic nations of the middle-east, a worry that Islam would take over the world by simply buying it up or by controlling the politics of the West. Even Bruce Sterling had a couple of stories about it. I think the best novels on the subject are the 'Crescent in the Sky' and 'A Gathering of Stars' by Donald Moffitt. You get a Moslem Mars, slowly being terraformed and an interstellar Caliphate with ships limited by the speed of light. They are worth a read if you happen to come across them. Moffitt is another author now, sadly, forgotten.
@@paulcooper3611 Islam does figure in the plot of the novel, but Chinese expansionism, Japanese Feudalism, and Mexico based cartels, are more directly involved in the protagonists experiences. Simmons insults just about everyone, no discrimination.
@@paulcooper3611 Not familiar with Moffit. Will watch for his work. In a week I have a review of Howard Waldrop’s ‘Them Bones’ including some references to Armadillo Con and his tribute this year.
This sounds really interesting - I think it might be very much for me! Will keep an eye out for it. I have Hyperion on my shelf and have been meaning to get around to it for a while, but it sounds like I might enjoy this one even more.
"Is this controversial political, cultural and religious extrapolation too much?" Yes, for sure. Simmons lost his mind in a right-wing fever dream horror of a Muslim takeover. (Something similar happened to Frank Miller around the time of the Occupy movement before he recovered some of his sanity, but that's a different story.) Simmons also ruined a perfectly good duology after the 9/11 attacks warped his worldview. Ilium was a very promising setup. Then Olympos completely derails the story with irrational fear of the Horde rampaging across the world. The symbolism was far from subtle. He's also been very disingenuous that Flashback was not an attack on Obama's presidency, saying any generic American president would do. I don't believe that for a second.
@@joebrooks4448 "He/she said Plane loads of 15,000 unvetted immigrants had been dropped on Springfield, a city of 50,000, over the last 2 years and they had no means to accommodate them." Manifestly untrue. The city wanted workers for plants that were in trouble for lack of labor. The immigrants hired all came through a federal temporary asylum program. You know, vetted. They are actually enrolled in training programs and language learning classes, living the American dream of doing better and taking care of their families. This right-wing hearsay nonsense "He/she said" has to stop. The lady that accused her Haitian neighbors of eating her cat found said cat in her own damn basement and then had to apologize to the immigrant neighbors she accused. Also, you know ducks and geese migrate, right? They don't live year round in that pond. (This is me under serious restraint... There is much more I could say :)) Without derailing this too much, hopefully the openly racist rally at Madison Square Garden on Sunday (an echo of the German Nazi Bund rally there in 1939), specifically the crude comments about Puerto Ricans (who also work and pay US taxes) and other Latinos, will be the beginning of the end of the hatemongering.
@@marsrock316 Hey Richard. I think this reply is acceptable? @marsrock316 @marsrock316 I must disagree with your post entirely. This issue has been heavily covered by local news. Also, I think the local police and citizens have a far better understanding of the situation than any other entity. That "vetting" you refer to has little value. Police records from Haiti are hardly reliable. Lot of activity at Madison Square since 80 years ago. Has that all been nefarious? I used he/she to protect the folks I spoke with, think about it.. Had nothing to do with political views. Also, no migration at the time I looked, reread. The city did not want any of this. A few greedy companies did. The City government went along with it. The population had no warning.
@@marsrock316 Since Richard does not feel comfortable with this debate, I deleted these comments. I was traveling today, back home! Getting back to the original purpose of sending the book to Vintage SF, I hope Richard's excellent review has interested some folks and they will read this SF novel. I will be doing a review, soon. Reviews, opinions, and analytical debate welcome!
Sometimes a novel can be controversial for the path it takes in extrapolating the present, its present at the time of writing. I think it is worth discussing. My request is that the discourse be respectful of each other's perspectives. I like to think ideas are a journey, not a fortress to defend.
@@vintagesf Agreed.
There's a big difference between extrapolating the present and presenting an ideologically tilted point of view. One is legitimate alternate history based on an understanding of current and historical facts, the other is a screed.
@@marsrock316 Science Fiction is about learning, Marsrock. JWC Jr published early RAH - mostly conservative, he also published Asimov's Foundation series - mostly liberal, then Herbert's Dune - anything and everything, besides a massive catalog of short stories and novels. Same thing with Fred Pohl and Lester del Rey. Their editorship of Worlds of If thru the late 1960s was great stuff. SF should encourage researching all disciplines for yourself. Not everyone will reach the same conclusions.
A monolithic fictional presentation of history or the future does an injustice to the fans, especially the youth. Present all sides, humans have a right to make their own determinations and not just in SF.
@@joebrooks4448 I have done exactly that, made my own determination, as have many others in regard to a novel that is political axe-grinding to an extreme.
You don't seem to have a comprehensive view of Simmons' career. He's acceptable as a conservative and even libertarian, but he went way beyond that with Flashback.
I think he was actually a good, talented writer. I read the Hyperion series and liked Ilium, as I said elsewhere, before his derangement set in.
Learning about different views is a very different matter from being dismissive of extreme views. It is disingenuous to promote a novel featuring the obliteration of Israel in nuclear fire and blaming Jews for creating the flashback drug. Who's the real culprit? Feudal and criminal Japanese elements (who knows why; not sure Simmons does) that are fighting the great threat to world order: a global Caliphate. So America falls apart because of Obama's policies (he's ultimately the big bad cause of American collapse) and only Japan can save us from the threatening Islamic hordes? This is stupidly insane. There's very little worth considering seriously here.
Please stop being dismissive of a political tract disguised as a very bad novel.
@@marsrock316 You just made my point. You made your own determination. Should that be called "derangement?"
You should not attempt to bar others from making their own determinations.
That is a basic right in a free socety. You are free to express your thoughts, so is Simmons and everyone else. This is the First Amendment. First for obvious reasons.
Wow, Richard, talk about a story that tweaks a lot of folks! Good one. I have to read this. Thanks for featuring. Cheers!
I'll have to read Flashback. I love the writing of Dan Simmons (with the exception of Song of Kali). Thanks for the video!
i just finished this one last week. it was the first slog i have encountered from Simmons. i reckon there had to be one sooner or later.
i did finish it and celebrated with some hi-power cannabis. back in the 70's we were warned about 'flashbacks' that never arrived.
Great review, Richard! Thanks for the mentions! I will not ask about the end, as that would be a spoiler. I have read many reviews on this novel, it is about 50/50 on the ending. I am in the pragmatic camp.
In April 2006 Dan Simmons published on the internet an insane short story about evil Islam defeating the USA. This novel, Flashback, seems like it is a development from that.
Do you recall the title? I have not heard of this one.
@@joebrooks4448 I think it was called "The Traveller"
@@goosey235 Thank you, I will look for it.
@@joebrooks4448 No problem, hope I'm remembering it right though haha
@@goosey235 Yes, The Traveler.
Simmons was never a writer I liked so I haven't read 'Flashback'. From you description, it sounds like he is still carrying on the Islamiphobia of the 80s and 90s. After the oil embargo of the 70s, there was a concern about the growing wealth of the Islamic nations of the middle-east, a worry that Islam would take over the world by simply buying it up or by controlling the politics of the West. Even Bruce Sterling had a couple of stories about it. I think the best novels on the subject are the 'Crescent in the Sky' and 'A Gathering of Stars' by Donald Moffitt. You get a Moslem Mars, slowly being terraformed and an interstellar Caliphate with ships limited by the speed of light. They are worth a read if you happen to come across them. Moffitt is another author now, sadly, forgotten.
@@paulcooper3611 Islam does figure in the plot of the novel, but Chinese expansionism, Japanese Feudalism, and Mexico based cartels, are more directly involved in the protagonists experiences.
Simmons insults just about everyone, no discrimination.
@@paulcooper3611 Not familiar with Moffit. Will watch for his work. In a week I have a review of Howard Waldrop’s ‘Them Bones’ including some references to Armadillo Con and his tribute this year.
Oh dear …
This sounds really interesting - I think it might be very much for me! Will keep an eye out for it. I have Hyperion on my shelf and have been meaning to get around to it for a while, but it sounds like I might enjoy this one even more.
"Is this controversial political, cultural and religious extrapolation too much?"
Yes, for sure.
Simmons lost his mind in a right-wing fever dream horror of a Muslim takeover. (Something similar happened to Frank Miller around the time of the Occupy movement before he recovered some of his sanity, but that's a different story.)
Simmons also ruined a perfectly good duology after the 9/11 attacks warped his worldview. Ilium was a very promising setup. Then Olympos completely derails the story with irrational fear of the Horde rampaging across the world. The symbolism was far from subtle.
He's also been very disingenuous that Flashback was not an attack on Obama's presidency, saying any generic American president would do. I don't believe that for a second.
Yes, completely. Think the give away word here is ‘appeasement’
@@joebrooks4448 lol, a report from the _ground_ .
@@joebrooks4448 "He/she said Plane loads of 15,000 unvetted immigrants had been dropped on Springfield, a city of 50,000, over the last 2 years and they had no means to accommodate them."
Manifestly untrue. The city wanted workers for plants that were in trouble for lack of labor. The immigrants hired all came through a federal temporary asylum program. You know, vetted. They are actually enrolled in training programs and language learning classes, living the American dream of doing better and taking care of their families.
This right-wing hearsay nonsense "He/she said" has to stop. The lady that accused her Haitian neighbors of eating her cat found said cat in her own damn basement and then had to apologize to the immigrant neighbors she accused.
Also, you know ducks and geese migrate, right? They don't live year round in that pond.
(This is me under serious restraint... There is much more I could say :))
Without derailing this too much, hopefully the openly racist rally at Madison Square Garden on Sunday (an echo of the German Nazi Bund rally there in 1939), specifically the crude comments about Puerto Ricans (who also work and pay US taxes) and other Latinos, will be the beginning of the end of the hatemongering.
@@marsrock316
Hey Richard. I think this reply is acceptable?
@marsrock316 @marsrock316 I must disagree with your post entirely. This issue has been heavily covered by local news. Also, I think the local police and citizens have a far better understanding of the situation than any other entity. That "vetting" you refer to has little value. Police records from Haiti are hardly reliable.
Lot of activity at Madison Square since 80 years ago. Has that all been nefarious?
I used he/she to protect the folks I spoke with, think about it.. Had nothing to do with political views.
Also, no migration at the time I looked, reread.
The city did not want any of this.
A few greedy companies did. The City government went along with it.
The population had no warning.
@@marsrock316 Since Richard does not feel comfortable with this debate, I deleted these comments. I was traveling today, back home!
Getting back to the original purpose of sending the book to Vintage SF, I hope Richard's excellent review has interested some folks and they will read this SF novel. I will be doing a review, soon.
Reviews, opinions, and analytical debate welcome!