Isn't misogynistc to reduce women to skirt & dress wearers? And anyone who carricatures this stereotype by using fake monsterboops and immersing himself im too much makeup is allowed to call himself a woman? What about the risks that women face, like being less strong than men or getting pregnant by men, or having to endure periods for over 30 years - including terrible cramps and pains every month, if they are unlucky?
( hope you don't mind ) highly recommend this book, The Populist Delusion by Neema Parvini. It's settling out the argument that the Liberal Managerial class aren't going to ever be voted out and that we need the elites to split.
As a short, skinny 13-yo boy with long hair I went on holiday in Paris and I was SA'd twice by middle-aged men, who I assume mistook me for a girl, though I will never know for sure. Here's my Q: was I a victim of misogyny? I am still not sure what I think about this 30 years later. This is an actual thing that happened, not a thought experiment. The SA's were not that bad, but they were real, FYI. Whatever you go with does not make mine a good example to make a law from, of course.
@@chrisb9345maybe they didn't think you were a girl maybe they were gay? Or hebephiles? Certainly you were the victim of a horrible act whatever category that falls under
I disagree that the amount of interaction a child receives in the first years of life has no significance to their development. As a father of adopted children I have first hand experience of the damage that is done buy a lack of early years care. Their is significant literature on this.
Exactly. Human beings are all about attachment. Psychologists know that most mental health issues including narcissism and psychopathy are driven by attachment issues in childhood. Very ignorant on that count.
When did Ella ever say 'no significance'? Why begin from the experience of children in care system to generalise? The biggest mistake of this sort which very worryingly informed a lot of what Ella raised in the policy field is a beginning in the Romanian orphans. Children raised through most of history and in muich of the world you (inc you probably) develop well without the sort of rules being given all the time about the most specific things. Child play is actually destroyed by rules.
How are people dismissing this, even small babies who are adopted come with trauma from the loss of their birth mother. Babies are lots more affected by their surroundings and even during pregnancy than many understand. Like babies who are left without almost any human contact will die even if they are fed.
@@ellielee8609 Exactly. The problem with these types of initiatives are usually that it tends to pile on the pressure where it isn't needed, but does next to nothing to where it would really be needed. You come up against diminishing returns. Children need interaction, but 99% of middle class babies will be getting that anyway. The benefit you get from campaigns like this is minuscule or non-existent. If you really wanted to tackle this you wouldn't do a flashy campaign, you'd think of ways to support at risk parents - health visitors, support groups, low-threshold baby/family clubs, all kind of things you could do.
17:55 every single college student in America needs to hear these words. You're not special. Most people aren't. That's why the word "special" exists. We've bred a generation of narcissists.
Spot on....! Of course, as Ella remarks, Humza won't speak the truth, (about his Hate & Trans Legislation), because as a Muslim he knows it will offend a good many Muslims.
Question: how do you tell if someone IS special, then? Honestly: if most people aren't special, that means that some of them still are, and how do you tell the difference?
It's a point that probably would've landed a bit better if she hadn't spent the latter portion of the interview sounding entirely self-obsessed and self-pitying, but it was a point well made.
I don’t think real trans people want anything more than being accepted as the gender they identify with. The problem is that there are a lot of narcissist and other climbers out there who will self righteously leach onto anyone’s pain for their own advancement.
I don't think Trans Women get beaten up by men because the men perceive them as women, I think they get beaten up for the exact opposite reason. Not in anyway justifying it, just saying.
Agreed, also worth noting that the stats for assault on trans women generally come from those working in the sex industry. Most trans women are perfectly safe and if you were to compare the stats for gay men working in the sex industry Vs trans women and the violence both suffer I doubt there would much difference
Yeah, this is why the concept of "trans misogyny" doesn't make any sense to me. Any kind of hate they get is because people see them as anti-social men (which they are imo), not as women.
@@vanillamarshmallow or some level of homophobia which could be said to be rooted in misogyny. I don't think that's what the AGPs mean when they say they've experienced misogyny, usually they mean "someone didn't accept me as a woman"
Agree..the men who feel justified in violence against trans do so because they feel ' fooled,' or ' set-up'. Again, not justifying just pointing out the reasons for violence against trans and violence against women are very different.
One important thing about being able to say something "horrible" is: We need to be able to say horrible things because there's a chance that those horrible things are TRUE! Life is ugly! Why do people think that something is untrue because they find it offensive?
Yep. They're already being aided and comforted in knowing the conservative brocode covers them over women who were forced to develop feminism in the first place. It's all a vicious cycle.
But early childhood IS important there are studies of abandoned babies and toddlers in old institutions who were never held & many of them died. They turn themselves face down on the floor in complete despair & they don't thrive.
As someone who actually got a Child Development degree and worked both in an extended daycare and a three hour program for stay at home mothers, I saw a difference between the two groups. The children who had stay at home moms had an air of innocence that the daycare children did not have. Also, formula is not the equivalent to breast milk. Breast feeding has a variety of benefits that formula does not have. For the record, I never told parents how to discipline their children. I worked with children from low income families and I did notice that the three to four year old children in my program were less advanced than the toddlers of my educated middle class friends. If you stop giving information on parenting you will end up with this divide. Is the answer to this is to stop telling parents how to parent? BTW, peek-a-boo helps a toddler to develop object permanence, an important cognitive milestone.
@@missanne2908 100% Thank you. My mother was traumatized in her childhood and she was cold as ice & physically & emotionally rejecting toward me. Perhaps also in the past young mothers had extended families & neighbours around to share day care & love - now they are isolated & have to figure it out on their own.
As a working women with a supportive husband and a great deal of nanny help over the years my conclusion is that there is no replacement for mom. No one else thinks the same or is as attuned to their kid as mom. The more strangers and largely incompetents you bring into your family the more you will introduce problems. Schools have to start making schedules for working family homes and stop wasting our time on bullshit.
100% agree. There absolutely is no substitute for a mother and a father. And schools/education need to leave parenting to parents and stop making the public believe that there is one, single solitary teacher that can be afforded the RIGHT to discuss personal/delicate and family issues with YOUR child. People need to waken up and understand that teachers have absolutely (ABSOLUTELY) zero time to guide children through the minefield of pre-puberty, puberty, post puberty, gender ideology or sexuality. No 1. teachers are not qualified and are not privy to what is going on in the childs' home life. No 2. as a teacher, I'm scratching my head to remember when I had ANY time to spend with ANY child on discussing anything other than subject content/PROGRESS of the course I was teaching. Additionally, I am what I would consider to be a normal person, as such, I personally would feel extremely uncomfortable being asked such questions by a child and would direct them them to their parents. I would go even further and say that it would be crossing a societal line. Teachers are paid: to teach their subject/s. You will recall that teachers are forever complaining they have no time to do the job of teaching, assessing and marking homework. So where do they get the time to be Jordan Peterson??? It is cloud cuckoo land. They are not child psychologists, and they are certainly not surrogate parents.
This turned out to be a surprisingly fascinating conversation. As a mother of four, I can tell you, peek-a-boo is important (a little), reading to your kids is important (a little), hugs are important (a little more), but the two key things that mean more than all of it combined are 1. do you give them freedom--like lots of it--to play and explore and 2. do you set a good example. That's the whole ball game.
@@mark4asp I actually disagree. I mean, it's probably pretty difficult for a child to understand very, very radical differences in approach between parents, but in truth, I think learning to navigate different approaches ultimately produces resilience and broader understanding of the way the world works. I raised two of my four children in Italy and saw this in action all the time. I was told point blank by an Italian father that the Italian way is usually for the father to shout his head off, then the child to run to Mom for hugs. I was horrified at first, but in the end, came to see that (its gender-role out-datedness aside: culture will be culture), it worked out just fine for the kids. In school, most Italian children immediately learn to identify which teachers are the hollerers and which are the huggers and adjust their behaviour accordingly. My kids, on the other hand, were far less resilient because my husband and I tried to be better partners and more consistent, so my kids had little idea that people could behave differently from us until they were thrust into situations they couldn't handle. That would have improved if they had been freer to explore as children (run around in the streets and interact with neighbours like we used to as children), but that's not a thing anymore, so they had only supervised play dates to go on--not enough in my opinion.
I like what she talks about at 54:26. I hate how people act like women can only be girlboss career women or tradwives. I have an aunt who never married or had children (by choice) and she’s not a “career woman” at all. Like I don’t understand why people act like those are the only two choices. And I agree with her, I hate how motherhood has turned into a status thing for so many women.
This is me, being married and not being a career woman but also not wanting to be a mother. I am a failure to both sides, which is massively discouraging. Honestly I just don't want to be a failure to myself. I'm just trying to get through life day by day, and living up to others' expectations isn't really worth it to me. Women, just as much as men, should be given space to just BE and to try to find their own purpose in their own time. So I appreciate this take.
Ironically, motherhood can mean a woman being either denigrated or elevated, depending on circumstances e.g. unmarried teen vs married lady staying at home to raise her children while the husband provides. Funny old world, isn’t it?
Ella, parenting is a whole lot more than a bit of time spent playing peek-a-boo. If you didn't understand what it entailed and weren't prepared to put in the hard yards (and receive boundless joy too) then why did you do it? Your baby needs you and you won't get this time back again.
This conversation was generally going quite well and then she started talking about raising children and I thought "No! This is all wrong!". I'm glad it wasn't just me
Yeah, she's throwing out very contradicting ideas. I really hate the mentality of just pop the baby out and hand him to someone else, get back to you and what kind of woman you wanna be. Sorry to be harsh but the moment you decide to be a mother in a first world country being married and having money the woman you want to be doesn't really matter, the woman you HAVE to be is the best possible mother to your child. Steal some moments here and there to spend on your hobbies and dreams until they've grown. Same for men obviously, the second you decide to start a family as a man you are on Dad Duty for the rest of your life, the man you dreamed of being when you were a teenager doesn't matter at all, you must take care of your wife and children to the best of your ability, provide for them in every possible way they need, make their dreams your own, work on helping them achieve their dreams and if you can steal a moment for yourself here and there every week then great. If what I'm saying sounds soul crushing, then you don't yet understand that these sacrifices are the most meaningful thing a human being can do. If there is ANYTHING sacred in the universe it is the act of starting a family and dedicating your life to taking care of it. Do NOT involve the state in something that is sacred, the state can only ruin things, water them down, corrupt them. The ideals I describe above may sound incredibly hard to achieve as well but that's exactly the point, that's why Ideals are Ideals and that's why we need them and it's worth pursuing them. In the exercise of trying to the best possible parents we'll fail because nobody's perfect, but we'll do an excellent job because we were shooting for the Ideal. The essence of those thoughts in the end "I need the state to create a great place with great employees where I can hand off my baby and get back to me" That breaks my heart. That's the path to ruin.
When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles. Islam in a nutshell.
Just listened to this one on Spotify. I love Ella. It's refreshing to listen to someone who doesn't have such extreme views for either side. She's so normal, and i think we need reminding that she is most of us. Social media has us believe the world's gone mad, but in reality, ask the everyday person on the street what they think about things, and i reckon they'd align with Ella.
Lol Ella is so reasonable that she dismisses any men that claim they dislike weaponised feminism as Incels 😂. Hmmmm. She is just another feminist that puts on a centrist beard to get invited on non left wing shows but is always shown up but actually rational centrist that don't excuse bad behaviour their whole career
She seems rather naive re the early years. Kids who don’t receive adequate love and attention during these years or any thereafter do develop problems. I see plenty of parents transfixed by there phone’s completely ignoring their children, which is one of the issues I think the early years is trying to combat. Quoting Bolsheviks and stating the community should raise your children well that didn’t work out so well for China! Extended family, close friends helping out yes, but not the ‘community’! All sorts of safeguarding issues there too! Agree with smacking! Outlawing it hasn’t eradicated child abuse anyway, so it’s pointless and sometimes kids do need a smack, which is NOT a beating. Childcare for working parents below a certain wage threshold should be free.
@@softsophisticate Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Frankly, the creating and raising of our next generation is the most important job we do, be it mothers, fathers or grandparents.
I wish. As the main wage-earner, I was back at work as soon as possible - got to pay the mortgage! - while my other half (now my ex) went part-time. We needed two incomes to stay afloat and his went down less than mine would have…. This was the late 1990s, btw.
Its the new "elite" thing to do though. In a world where even dual income families are struggling, a woman with that option has a husband making a lot. That or he's working non-stop.
Yeah. You're forgetting That being good at taking care of a child and having money To be able are imperative. There are plenty of people that stay home with children that are horrible parents. Not everyone is good at their job. Some people shouldn't be parents.
Her take on motherhood and female inequality is just the norm of wanting it all. Many fathers don't get to be fathers because they are chasing a career. Why is it different for a woman? Funny how she also talks about how wonderful women are doing, while men are falling behind and calls it a "Failure of young...boys". Not that the SYSTEM is pandering to women and denying men because of their gender.
Lost me at thoughts on childcare. Children are not a burden they are amazing. Nature is not to be overcome because the "most natural" people are the youngest.
@@adamofyorkshire I would say she is very switched on to the overblown and one sided accounts associated with it. She's very much in line with Jerome Kagan (the best of that field).
@@ellielee8609 Kagan ties temperament to biology which is absolutely true. But His views on attachment theory are far from mainstream thought. Modern attachment theory is nothing like that which Bowlby first proposed and it's criticisms have been well documented. Attachment theory has been significantly revised to reflect accurate critique through empirical study. The overarching concept of the significance of both a mother and father behaviour towards their child are solid, and underpin huge swathes of effective and empirically backed therapy. So it is both true that one's temperament is somewhat biologically determined, whilst also underlining the importance of ensuring a child has secure attachment to at least 1 parent in the first 5(ish) years of life. For e.g. orphaned or adopted children often have disordered attachment due to environmental factors they are born into, and their temperament may (or not) partially predict which attachment style is developed.
@@adamofyorkshireit's hard to know from what to are saying what and how you make distinctions between disorder and what is normal. The problem, which Kagan was very alert to (as was Winnicott) is the completely unreaonable assumption that therapy as anything to do with normal family life. What Ella very briefly raised is the reprehesible assumption held by the NHS that parents in general need peek a boo lessons because all children are at risk of impaired attachment. Same idea held by Royal Foundation. My impression is by you also, maybe! No good to any parent.
What this lady is imagining as a “new way forward” is called family. A family group of parents, grandparents, uncles/aunts and cousins. All connected by blood and kinship. This is sadly lacking in the minds of many today. Recent generations have forgotten the strength of the family. Yes, families are complicated, especially in today’s me, now, world but the degradation of the family structure has been the loss of everyone.
Seems pretty obvious that Humza Yousaf, being a Muslim of Pakistani descent - a religion and state both known for systemic oppression of women - is not at all a reliable source for what does or doesn't constitute misogyny. Of course the above statement would just be waved off as racist and doesn't need to be thought about. But ask yourself this: is it true that Yousaf has routinely prioritized the interests of men who pretend to be women over those of actual biological women? Only a true male chauvinist could consider fake women to be of greater importance than real women.
I don't understand the desire for childcare. As Ella said, she had a great upbringing with her mother being at stay at home mum. A stay at home parent (m or d) surely is the gold standard.
I'm so often fascinated when listening to Ella Whelan. Clearly a very intelligent, eloquent thinker, but so full of contradictions: insisting - when it comes to the trans issue - that biology matters, and then calling it "bioligist determinist" when society expects women to invest time and effort into child rearing, and dreams of a utopia where children can be entirely raised by the state (or alternatively by "hippie communes"), sounding like a crazed marxist feminist - while condemning feminism! She often talks about "freedom from the state", but I remember her calling Labour's public spending plans under Jeremy Corbyn not "radical enough" wanting to see them doubled or tripled. On another occasion on Spiked she critizised numerous blatant examples of anti-white racism - only to complain in the same breath about "crazy right wingers" who made the "absurd claim" that something as anti-white racism existed. I could go on....
The men who engage with trans identity to victimize women, and/or fetishize women, would absolutely be victimizing and/or fetishizing women regardless of what women or feminism say or do. There is no way to be the perfect woman or feminist. Haters are gonna hate.. Anyways, I'll check out what's said in the episode. I appreciate gender critical/gender critical aligned voices. 🙂
'Biology and nature is to be overcome' I couldn't agree less. To ignore biology and nature is a fast track to poor physical and mental health. These things happen to us for a reason, especially in terms of childbearing and to ignore it and palm it off on other people is asking for trouble.
Especially when she was just arguing that humans can’t change sex. Her way of thinking about nature to be overcome directly led to lysenkism and the environmental devastation wrought in the Soviet Union and communist China because nature was to be bent towards man’s will. It also led to the idea that parents didn’t need a bond with their children. And all other kinds of nonsense. It’s clear Ella is not a scientist!
So true about police time being wasted. I remember being so angry hearing about a young woman who was being stalked and threatened constantly and fearing for her life, but the police wouldn't do a thing. Yet they'll turn up at your door if you 'misgender' someone online.
When you only want to bring in a misogyny law but not a misandry law then it's obvious that you don't believe in equal treatment and you intend for the law to be abused.
Which is exactly what all these laws are about, there is not a single anti-misandry law anywhere in the world, and even though discrimination based on s&x is illegal in the Netherlands, discrimination against men and boys is still allowed, several judges ruled that specific policies exclusively benefiting women and girls is "fine, because of historical oppression" but anything favouring men and boys is discrimination. This is also why many gender neutral viruses only ever get vaccinated in women and girls here.
No one thinks if it in the same way no one thought about little boys in school when they began focusing on girls and there is one reason why: Men. They constantly boasted they were "naturally superior, not getting extra attention you're just mad😂". So why would anyone think of it?
It might help if mn finally admitted some vulnerabilities and worked with wmn for common sense humanistic measures instead of all this us vs them stuff. We are not really from separate planets despite the metaphor.
"As a woman" "Speaking as a black person" - That's when you actually *are* those things. Men-claiming-to-be-women are trying to do identity politics when they are in fact the opposite category.
Talking about luxury beliefs, the idea that you can have equality because you can totally work when you are pregnant. What about labourers, or athletes?
Exactly she's only thinking of the desk job workers and has no regard for the millions of other hard jobs out there that isn't sat behind a desk at home. Complete disconnect.
Indeed - having moaned about self-centred people trying to change normality for the sane majority... It seemed rather odd to then go on a long diatribe about how things clearly aren't fair for women because motherhood was more effort than she expected.
Agreed with most, but her wish to largely offload motherhood onto 'society' is absolutely wrong. Accept your womanhood and, if you decide to have children, be a proper mother to them, instead of chasing crap secular materialist values (career status etc.).
I completely agree, motherhood feminism is and should be about wanting what is best for your family, with your children at the centre, not what she seems to be promoting which is a way to still have her rights at the centre regardless of the impact full time childcare can have on children. Such a shame, motherhood really can and should override this kind of narcissism.
Hard disagree about being angry at William and Kate about Early Years. This isn't meant to oppress helicopter parents from high-status households. It's for new parents who grew up neglected or abused, and helping them learn how to break the cycle. Disappointed that Ella doesn't see this.
I get the feeling Ella is feeling a little guilty about the amount of time she isn't spending with her child, so she mischaracterizes Catherine's Early Years program in order to feel better about it. Pretending the first two years of a child's life aren't vitally important is ridiculous. As if focusing on those years is WORSE than all of the atrocities Markle has committed!!!
@@SilverSixpence888 yes! It's bizarre, really. Especially considering how Harry and Meghan are managing the first few years of their own two children. Traveling the world extensively without their children, giving speeches about parenthood and children's mental health. Isolating them from their extended families on both sides, with the single exception of one grandmother -- the one who abandoned her daughter during her own formative years. Surely her mother's absence played a role in how Meghan turned out. If anything, Meghan is a walking demonstration of what Catherine is fighting for. So it's especially ironic that Ella would say that Meghan, with all her cruelty, is not as bad as a person who encourages parents to spend time with their children.
Like others here, I was enjoying Ella's opinion until her commentary on motherhood. It all sounded like her libertarianism extends to not allowing her child's needs to override her personal freedom. Western parenting has been selfishly geared towards parent convenience over the actual biological need that babies have for their mothers in the early years. Now that we know how important that bond is, it's hardly state authoritarianism that encourages mothers to stay home. On the contrary, the state loves Ella's idea of instutional daycare: man works + woman stays home = one taxable income. Man works + woman works + paid childcare worker = three taxable incomes.
Women are exceptional at 'policing' other women in to following social movements and trends. It doesn't take much to ignite a flame and have a fire run wild and see other women willingly throw themselves in to it and perpetuate it further. Just look at social media and the social dynamics that happen on them. I'm sorry, but yes, women do have some blame in this, it would of never of got to this point without their compliance and assistance.
As a result of young people, not understanding what feminism actually is, it does not mean we throw away the word “feminism”. I am a feminist who has nothing in common with the young so-called “feminists”. I’m obviously older, not radical left, and I get annoyed with this younger generation who do not realise they stand on the shoulders of the feminists who came before them. I don’t believe in “eternal gratitude”, but acknowledgement and recognition is just polite. This young woman is benefiting from women, like me, who fought for our voice to be heard. Does she believe anyone would care what she has to say if the feminist movement hadn’t happened? Feminists are also not a homogeneous group.
I get what you're saying, but unfortunately feminism has been corrupted at an institutional level. It's all well and good for a few women here and there to stand for the REAL principles of feminism, but its ultimately an echo that will fade out amongst the loud, hate filled rhetoric of what big feminism has become
I have to disagree. The more feminist literature I read, the more I see that everything that's happening now is its logical progression. The deconstruction of gender can be traced back to Simon de Beauvoir. All of the terminology, slogans and attitude of the millennial #girlboss came from 70's feminism. And leveraging with disingenuous claims has always been the feminist modus operandi. If all of this feminist tradition doesn't suit you, then why categorize yourself as a feminist?
Liberating women from the responsibilities of motherhood is not a virtuous goal and has not been good for society. "Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." Motherhood is inevitable necessary and good for society and it is nearsighted and foolish to put temporary career gratification over the future happiness of your children. We need quality childcare not cheap corporate childcare.
People toss around "who is to blame" a lot. And blaming women for this is ludicrous. We (pre gen Z) solved most of the broad social issues in the west. We really arrived at a great point where we now have to contend with nuance and economic issues. This generation has no broad issues to pool around. They've never experienced any real social adversity, they don't live in the age of hunger, no one is telling them they're not allowed to do something and they have too much low quality information to tackle. They've purpousless, disconnected, unguided, narcissistic and ignorant. How do you expect them to function? I mean they're literally asking employers if they can accommodate for 'time blindness" and alike nonsense. They need to be lined up. Thought some discipline. TikTok and alike platforms need to be banned for kids.
It is ludicrous to blame this on women, especially when it was all done to benefit those who hurt women. Asking women to be caring to those in pain was the lure, and yes, women fell for it. Yet, if women don't comply, they are socially attacked.
I would agree with you to a point. Everything you have said is true if the middle and upper classes. The working class still suffer the sorts of misogyny that hold women back, racism still exists but to a lesser extent than before and classism is absolutely rife in the UK. All of these middle class luxury beliefs have profound effects and the people who suffer the most are the working class
unfortunatley you are wrong. Feminism is to blame for this. Women and men who a feminist fight for this "inclusion" fight for men to invade our spaces. There is a small minority of women who stand up for the truth and unless the majority of women join us. Men will continue to be called women erase our rights.
Fair point. I'm looking at it from a perspective of historical progress. That's why I said broad issues and nuance. Because more narrowly theres still work, of course. @@RenegadeContext
@@malificentpurple From my observations, it's predominately 'modern' feminists who facilitate and promote this nonsense, whether they lit the torch is less relevant, they certainly are aggressively carrying it forward and pressuring gov't. To see an echo chamber of this behaviour look at sports and how quickly that got walked over, to the point no girl/woman dare say anything negatively and put their own wellbeing and interests first. I've seen many more men, many fathers in opposition to this (still do), only for them to be told they have no voice in women's spaces. By no means ludicrous to lay some blame on women. And, to one of the OP's points, we did do a lot of work, unquestionably we've since regressed, social cohesion and cohesion between men and women is faltering and falling backwards, I agree social media has much to answer for it.
The early years focus is about attachment. Healthy attachment or the lack thereof has a huge, lifelong impact. You only have to walk through any busy town to see many mums with small children who they're not interacting with at all, but maybe staring at their phone. I'm not saying this to bash mums but to point out that people don't necessarily KNOW the importance of being fully present with their young children.
From what I've heard from remainers in the last EIGHT years, has shown me one thing- it was the Brexit side who understood more about why they were voting than the remain side did. Even during our mainstream blitz on why we shouldn't leave, they only ever came up with how bad things would be if we left, never the positives of EU hegemony- because there were no positives for the little people. People at the bottom have very little agency, the EU was going to take even more agency away from them.
What a wonderful woman. I'm not a UK citizen and haven't had opportunities to know who many of Andrew Gold's guests are. I'm grateful to be able to learn from Heretics guests.
I commented too early - the answer to Ella's question of can't we have something in the middle, is for both parents to work less and take it in turns doing house and family things.
@@softsophisticatemy parents both worked, because we needed the money. My Grandma, who lived with us, raised me. I wish my mother or mother-in-law had been well enough to care for our boys while my hubby and I went to earn a living. The working classes didn’t have luxuries like stay-at-home mothers back in the day, and they don’t now.
I don't think people are fetishizing laundry and cooking.....but as part of homelife, it can be done well and a job well done should be celebrated. Buccee's is a famous chain of gas stations who tout clean bathrooms. It's not a fetish, it's a freakin' awesome experience for a gas station. No one's getting off on it.
The problem is why do you honestly want that? It honestly used to be single moms that had to do it or poor women. And society would support them other women would help out but somehow Carrear women want to paint themselves as they have to choose work! and they need the support that was given to those single women. Most of them don't need the money their men can support them the just value money and Carrear climbing than anything. They are addicted to it.
@@denireynolds9599 I personally think working while pregnant sounds horrific. But there’s many reasons women may want to work … independence, career etc. it’s also dangerous for women to solely rely on their male partner financially. Not saying all men beat or abuse their partners but it puts women in a very vulnerable position. I guess I don’t know what the solution is!
@denireynolds9599 This is a very unfair take. Women are human beings just like men are. This needs to be said?! We all have temperaments that drive us in different directions. Sorry deni, but I don't want to be beholden to menfolk who may (may!) hold it over me, or the alternative of being poor seeking handouts. Dude! Seriously! You can have your family and live at home full time doing the good work of raising kids. That's fine. But other women wanting something different isn't an insult. To say it is is akin to trtran saying "JK is phobic bc she wants women's spaces." Eyeroll. Being pro woman is NOT the same as being anti YOU. None of this would be happening if the system in place was truly merit based and not the crony system where they got to fail upwards, shutting other citizens out. Men who prefer the home life could have done the home daddy thing. It is so obvious to me. Why can't more people see this obvious truth? Y'all got corrupted by the shoulderpadded gurus who was only in it to sell books.
@@denireynolds9599I replied a very fair rebuttal but it's missing. But to the quick: Your post is very unfair to humans of the XX chromosomes who don't share your temperament or dreams. To expect us who don't to be poor? Dude!
I absolutely agree with Ella - I have, for the last decade now, only called myself a women's liberationist or women's rights advocate (rather than a feminist). We need to re-grasp the suffragette nettle and get back to basics. Women don't want to be 'equal' to men, we have always wanted equality of opportunity according to ability and an end to stereotyping and sexism.
I worked (desk job) until 2 weeks before my first son’s due date. Easy pregnancy, no problems. Four weeks later, after three days in labour, I’m rushed for an emergency C-section. Ditto second child, although the hospital only gave me 24 hours to try for vbac. Would I have elected for a section? Heck, no. Perhaps “too posh to push” is Ella’s pov.
I disagree that we can invent alternatives to the direct care of the mother for an infant that would be in any way as sufficient. Men are not mothers, men are fathers. I say this as a gay man. I’m grateful for having a mother and a father, and I’m grateful that my mum was everything I admire in a mother. No man could do what she did innately.
I agree a lot with Ella and what she says but at the same time I feel she gets some issues wrong. frankly she seems like an old school feminist There's no glamour in cleaning the house Or doing the washing in the same way as there's no glamour in mending a sewer or building a ship or building a Road. both men and women have to do what needs to be done with the person best suited doing it. Out of doing the washing and mending a sewer most women would choose doing the washing. It's not the actual hugging and how often you do it that's important it's the fact that you do do it. It is the attention and the engagement that the young child the baby receives that has the impact. Youwatch mothers delivering their children to play school and you'll see that a large percentage of them are lost in their mobile phones rather than paying attention to their children. I believe this is what the you must hug your children initiative comes from. And it's only natural and has happened forever for mothers to be concerned about whether they are paying their child enough attention. It's that fact that they're aware of the problem which is good. being lost in your mobile phone and paying your child no attention is where the problems come from.
Something I think should be pointed out is where Ella mentioned the relative underperformance of boys and men and said that we should discuss "why they're failing". When women did not attend university in numbers and earn more money than men, the discussion was never why they were failing, but why society was failing them. Even now, the discussion - even when mentioned sympathetically - fails to recognise that accountability is forced onto men disproportionately for failures, without the reward of the credit for their successes.
This is wrong. The system before refused to acknowledge boys got disproportionately more and better future-independence building attention than girls did. The response to this fact was a whole lot of haughty laughter. Mn refused to admit it so the system put into place to help girls took these mn at their word. You can't rewrite this history. It is astonishing how blind so many people are to this. As usual, it's tehwimminz fault. 🙄
Another cart before the horse reply. It was boys getting disproportionately superior future-independent building attention yet the mn at the time refused to admit it. So the new methods took them at their word, but you want to blame anyone else?
“Biology and nature are always to be overcome. Nature is to be overcome by man, it’s to be harnessed, it’s to be challenged, it’s not to ever be a barrier.” hmmm that’s almost an argument for…something I can’t quite put my finger on. whatever could it be
@@Xii371 because, like the hate crime law, anyone (eg me) can claim that they feel it could potentially be offensive to someone else known/unknown. It's true that in practice wmn are immune to many laws, or the negative consequences of their actions, but the misogyny law counts for everyone. Wmn are most misogynistic, much more than men, do the misogyny law will allow men/trns to report wmn for their crimes. Finally, wmn can get held accountable for their evil disgusting misogyny so we can stamp misogyny out of every dark corner it resides. Scotland said they're ready to build two brand new wmn's prisons to house the offenders that the new law would create. For England & Wales they're already doing a consultation with existing fem prisoners on what features their new prisons should have to specifically cater for wmn but they haven't confirmed how many cells/prisons they'll build. Brand new non-misogynistic prisons will make fem prisoners so much better off than the old fashioned ones, so it's a win for wmn on all fronts.
46:33 - funny that, up to this point I was listening when she talked about "board room feminists" and such. Suddenly, she's up there with them. "Well, I worked up until the hour before". Yes, and I expect that you think a cleaner, a shop assistant, or any "working class" woman can do the same. Well, I know women who were not able to work their jobs 3 months into their pregnancy, but who cares - we have birth control and easy births now, you can just pop them out in a couple hours and go back to being a drone for someone else. Yes, there are people, "incels, I guess", who think both a child and a mother have a value. Yes, just pop it out and drop it off. Not my problem, I'm free and equal, strong independent waman. Here are the values of a modern woman.
Yea that was shocking, she thinks just because she could do that, because she has a job that allows her to just sit around, of course she could work right up to it, because her job is no different than just sitting around doing nothing.
Thank you Paula and Andrew, this was a very interesting interview. I have been subscribed to Paula and to both of Andrew's channels for a while and see Paula on lots of lives too on other channels.
I just noticed because I was listening & not watching that you seldom pulled her her up when she made, almost continuously at some points, massive contradictions & also there were points where she pivoted on her marxist framework simultaneously decrying the interference of the state in domestic life whilst invoking the very intrusion of state into all aspects of life: consequently I found her thinking muddled & more often than not ideologically hindered by her desperate need to maintain an authentic marxist orientation to the discussion; if I had a transcript it would be easier to highlight but there were moments of lucid thought here which seemed unmoored & dislocated
When a government tells you what you can and can’t speak about, you are on a slippery slope to a nightmare. Open speech and full debate from all sides helps people choose the best way forward.
She’s adopted a masculinist view - that fulfillment pursued through a male-dominated perspective is proper. The truly feminist perspective would be that prioritizing familial relations is superior and that it’s sad that men must pursue resources outside the family because resources are required to sustain a family.
I totally agree that we should have as much freedom of speech as possible. It's so much better to know what people actually think and who they truly are. Any time I see some misogynistic comments on FB, I'm like "Oh, these guys seem to hate\be afraid of\ women, good to know!" This way I feel safer and in more control.
The discussion about parenting and motherhood and state intervention struck a chord with me. Mine are grown now, but I well remember feeling I had to accept a health visitor coming into my home to offer very much unwanted 'advice and support' and having to suffer this intrusion, else there was the fear that you'd be put on a 'bad parent' list somewhere, being watched. I well remember my one-word curt answers to the health visitor's questions and false chirpiness just to get through this nonsense as quickly as possible and get the bloody woman out of my house!
Indeed. And the government is giving the DW&P authority to arrest/confiscate property/fine/look into finances & spending of claimants (including those on pensions). Stasi world we're in and I'm 💯% sure no one voted for this.
Unlike you (I hope) there are genuinely bad parents. And it is important that children are actually protected from them. Not sure what other solution you can offer to identify whether a child lives in a good home or a bad one. As for advice: there is always room for improvement. But overall you don't have to obey to what the care worker says if you are a good parent..
@@spongya77 The vast majority of parents are doing a good job and blanket overkill through unwanted, intrusive home visits is not the answer. Linked up social service provision, policing, schools, healthcare and safeguarding are a better solution that targets those actually in need.
I'm with Ella on the trans stuff, totally, But, she's a good ole' lefty at heart. She's got some growing to do yet- still hanging on - but great interview, thanks so much for it.
Finally! Ella and the Spiked crew are the probably most sensible Political and Social pundits. The Tom Slater ep was great, and I'm sure this one will be too
Well, obviously the meaning of feminism has changed in the last 40 years. It used to be that feminism was women who wanted equal rights. Real women. Now it’s something totally different. All I hear these days is that feminism is to blame. Back in the 80s feminism just meant equal pay and equal rights under the law, apparently now it’s something I do not understand because all I hear is women talking about how bad feminism is
Feminists of the 1960's and 1970's often wrote anti-male pieces (think of the SCUM manifesto, or the fact that the term "the future is female" comes from a woman wanting to rid the globe of 90% of all males), if you discriminate against a group for being "born wrong" (males) then that group wanting to belong to the clearly socially privileged group is obvious. If Feminism was actually about gender equality then we wouldn't have seen such a large rise in transwomen.
@@OrwellsHousecatI’ve read them all. I don’t agree with everything all of them say-like any group of people. But broadly, the commenter is right. Feminism to the feminist on the street is equal rights and no discrimination on the basis of being a woman.
There are many schools of feminism and some are down right dangerous. I always ask people what they mean when they say feminism whether they are pro or against just to be clear. I agree with you it should be about equality
@RenegadeContext Good idea, because it has become such a nebulous term, that it requires more clarification now than ever before. I never thought I would hear self-proclaimed feminists defend the right of men who call themselves women to railroad their way over women's boundaries and into women's spaces, but such is the case in 2024. Thus, when someone proclaims themselves a feminist, we can no longer assume that they won't support policies that are bad for women and girls.
Well that's your opinion. But there is an actual definition depending on which wave of feminism you are talking about. And most waves were led by upper middle class women who wanted onto the board and gave 0 shits about working class women (or men). I think the rampant misandry in the western world is a direct result of feminism. Because women didn't want equality. They want all of the rights they perceive men to have and none of the responsibilities. And they want to take men's rights away for certain things. But give men even more responsibility. I don't understand how any woman with a son can be a feminist.
Excellent discussion...I have been uncomfortable with the "feminism" label for years as I'm not keep on leaping on the latest iteration... I agree - our "identity" isn't WHO we are it's just an outward manifestation of ourselves that's now linked to whatever is trending. Time to get back to making our who we are in character rather than outward presentation as the most important.
Ella; thank you for speaking for me. You are so tuned in to reality and erudite about the current political situation. You should be chairing a debate programme on BBC1 every evening at 7PM instead of a bland load of crap being dished up for the 'great unwashed'. The political elite have patronised working class people for decades now.
Are we pretending that women were not literally not allowed to do various things for ages? And that they still do the majority of house chores and caring for others?
@@Gingerblaze well seeing as children OBVIOUSLY have less autonomy than adult women. I think it’s insane to say them failing is their fault but women failing is not their fault.
The Royal Children Hospital gender clinic in Vic Aust literally told my autistic male child that THEY can make him a woman. Instead they have made him a eunuch.
@@SilverSixpence888no, under Victorian law she couldn’t have. It’s illegal by punishment of prison to engage in @conversion therapy which is considered anything less than affirming your child. If you seek care that does not affirm their gender belief, you can be jailed. If you take them out of the state to do so, you can be jailed. I have read the act. It’s sadly true.
Victoria seems to be the very worst state in Australia for this gender woo and authoritarianism. Everytime time I hear insanity coming out of Aus it's Victoria sadly.
Ella and Helen Joyce I can listen to for hours. This is why we didn't want misogyny laws, it will be just another tool for these men to use against women. Graet new about the schools guidance though.
Helen Yes. Ella absolutely Not. She is completely incoherent when it comes to "we need to overcome our biology" wtf? We are our biology. Helen would defeat her weak arguments in an instant.
Please don't put this woman on the same level of Helen Joyce lolz!! Helen is LITERALLY one of the greatest minds of modern history. This lady? Not so much.
I had so many mixed feelings and disagreements with what Ella was saying, I also agreed with her too. I was pleasantly surprised at the end when she discussed the event where they hold the debates on many different topics. I think everyone forgets birth rates are low because people can’t afford babies. As for her simplification of peekaboo and hugs for 2 years, it is very important in those early formative years that babies and toddlers are touched, loved and engaged with. Let’s face it with the spanking issue, many parents do it when they’re really angry. Kids get hurt, belts, wooden spoons and other objects are used. I raised my two nephews because my sister was abusive to them when they were little. She had SA trauma and addiction issues and their father was too busy with a new family so I said please give them to us. My point being that Child Protection Services in every country are overwhelmed because you can’t just let mothers be. Probably a high percentage of them you could but not all. I’ll leave it at that but as always thank you very much Andrew and Ella for the interview. ❤️ Edit: I did want to add there’s nothing wrong with a slight smack on the back of a child’s hand if they’re about to do something dangerous such as touch something hot, or pull the cat’s tail.
👍 Exactly how I felt. She had many sensible takes I agreed with, but also many others where I felt she either misdiagnosed the actual problem or was flat out wrong. Very interesting.
@@SilverSixpence888 I got that feeling too. She also said that she didn’t have a problem with Trad Wives but then went in to “have a dig” about them finding pleasure in home duties like doing the laundry and cooking meals because she’s busy and looks for what she can throw together for dinner. There were a couple of other points in there on the same topic. I got married at 19 yrs of age back in 1987. I live in Australia and I was working as a Veterinary Nurse for a Country Vet Practice which I absolutely adored. We did large and small animals and sometimes wouldn’t start our Horse surgery until 10pm at night at a special Equine facility in Kinglake Victoria!. On these occasions I’d get home at 2-3am and then be back at work by 8am the next day. I was so happy. Hubby was an accountant and wanted me to play housewife. I tried my best on my days off. Just after turning 21 he told me that it was time for me to give up work, stop hanging out with my girlfriends, settle down and have kids. Oh and I could play tennis with his mother if I wanted. 😂😂 I was still playing netball, basketball and Indoor Cricket. I said you can have the house, I’m taking my dog, a beautiful Border Collie named Rowdy and we left. Some women are meant to be and happy to be Trad Wives and I applaud them. My mum was there for us until our teens as Dad was in the Army. Then my Grandparents moved in. Ella was all over the place with her arguments. I’m so glad I got to raise my nephews, they needed more love, care and understanding because of what my sister had put them through. At that stage of my life I’d become physically disabled and unable to continue my Vet Nursing career, so I had more time and love to give to the boys. I was single, living with my parents so we had extended family helping all the way. Sorry, that went a bit longer than I meant it too. 😂💜
With being a mom you can't just choose to opt out from somethings it's cheating to just have someone else discipline your child or have someone else be there all the time it's boring for everyone it's a lesson on humility that makes you a better parent you change into a more patient person and learn to value the little things in life. When kids are older we can pursue the fame and glory of work if we still crave it.
Ella needs to read The Continium Concept. It is established beyond doubt the effects of poor parenting, and the positive impact of constant physical contact on infants.
You need to define what you mean by equality. Because for feminists it means a woman reentering the workforce at the same level after a break, which a man could not do. It means continuing to refer to the pay gap as “women being paid less for the same work” when the pay gap does not account for overtime, physically demanding or dangerous roles vs office roles. To close the pay gap in particular industries would eg mean paying nurses as much as surgeons, or cabin staff as much as pilots.
Though I think it’s worth asking: Why can’t someone re-enter the workforce at roughly the same level after parental leave? It’s feasible to have them covered by someone on a temporary contract. And most industries don’t change that much in a year. If the answer is _“It’s inconvenient to businesses.”_ I’d be inclined to say: _“Well, tough. Sustaining the human race might be more important than sustaining corporate profitability.”_
@@andybrice2711 Well if you have 'parental leave' that right is assured I believe, but of course it's time limited. It also depends upon the job. If the job requires currency of knowledge, a man can't just go for a multi-year break and expect to claim his former role. (And typically it will be multi-year.) Particularly when there are others trying to climb the same advancement ladder. You tell me, what is fair? Of course, if you just accept there are functionaries in 'temporary contract' class whose futures you dont much care about, then the problem is solved right quick!
@@paulwary Yes, certainly if it’s multiple years, you can’t expect to take back the same role at the same organization. There are jobs advertised as being cover for parental leave. I think that’s fair enough if you warn someone they will be unlikely to have a permanent role. Of course another way to equalize it further is to encourage men to take more paternity leave. I don’t expect it will ever be completely equal, because of biology. But I think it might benefit everyone if we moved towards a culture where fathers spent more time parenting. And one can make that argument from both progressive and conservative viewpoints.
What a fascinating, intelligent conversation. Thanks so very much, you two. You’ve hit on so many crucial elements of why society and politics is in such a diabolical mess. Congratulations on a wonderful video.
Excellent analysis 👌🏽The working class communities are always steps ahead than academic and political people would have folks believe. They simply jump on the bandwagon, co-opt it, and then resell it. 💅🏽
I love the end of this when she discussed parenting now. So much pressure for moms to hover over their children and make them the absolute center of our universe. I love my child more than anything but the pressure to be the perfect parent that causes absolutely zero harm to my child is ridiculous. We’re humans and kids are not made of glass.
Parents wouldn't even tolerate a grandparent getting involved in the mirco-management to that degree of how to raise their child, why would they tolerate it from a government that really, really, really has no business or frankly understanding, telling them how to raise their children. Look how well the management from Mt. Olympus, one-size-fits-all approach worked with the recent so-called health crisis. Not. Maybe people are the true experts on their own lives. If I had to bet on who would do a better job and make less damaging mistakes, I'd bet on the parents, who love their children and would die to protect them.
It is worth thinking about why, in recent decades, it is so common to hear ‘centrist’ people in the public eye say “ I have never in my life voted for the Conservatives”, but not ”I have never in my life voted Labour“. Given that more people have voted Conservative than Labour since the war it is strange way to say “ I’m not actually a baddie despite what I’m saying”. Mind you with this government I sympathise with anyone distancing themselves from them.
I can't agree that if you choose to have kids the rest of us have to pay for your choices eg with free childcare. Parents need to take responsibility. Choose.
I think there is some broader social good to supporting parenthood though. We want a sustainable population full of healthy, happy, productive people. Not a declining, aging population full of people with difficult childhoods and distant parents.
@@softsophisticate There will always be lazy/manipulative people. People/ parents need to prioritise/ take responsibility. Families share responsibilities - male and female. They shouldn't be palming them off to the state, or the rest of us.
Super impressive interview. This channel just keeps on improving. Thanks Andy, thanks Ella... may need to help on Patreon. Didn't Joe Rogan say that men will just morph into whatever they need to get ahead.
@@xWriterclarenocturnexx There should be much better support for abandoned mothers and their children, not mothers abandoning their children for their work.
Yes, it’s important for an infant to spend plenty of time with their parents. But I doubt there’s any harm in being with a babysitter for a few hours a day. People have surely been sharing childcare responsibilities since the beginning of human history. Even other animals do that.
The lack of any clear difference between the political parties is a function of globalisation. When capital and investment can move easily across national borders, politicians in power, regardless of party, have no choice but to keep their country 'internationally competitive' - that is, attractive to international capital, corporations, etc. That's why party differences have eroded.
I think that the level of cognitive dissonance it took for this lady to claim that men who believe feminism is weaponised are "incels", immediately after describing how an activist judge literally tried to claim that disagreeing with feminism was essentially a hate crime, is pretty hilarious. I've seen this lady on other shows and unfortunately she's really just a chameleon. She can come across as reasonable on some issues but, despite her protestations, is a copy and paste modern feminist in her actions and views. Particularly in her callous disregard for actual men's issues which she always disregards with considerable contempt. I think Douglas Murray was the one who said "some people you can predict with 100 percent accuracy what their stance will be on pretty much every topic based on a short conversation". This lady is very much in this ilk.
This woman lives in a fantasy world where she can have her cake and eat it too. Boohoo I don't like laundry, you think the garbage man loves picking up after you, no they do it because they must.
She contradicted herself hard on the trans issues, one view at first and then at the end with the "biology is to be overcome, anything is possible" she just countered herself. Biological determinism for thee but not for me aparently XD
Didn't see that coming bitter women who didn't want to respect or listen to men anymore are now either having to be half the value of a man with islam or compelled to respect obey and listen to men in dresses great work ladies, must go learning russian and Japanese 😇🙏♥️
![[Part 1] รักมาไม่ทันตั้งตัว❤ หนุ่มสาวโสดถูกจับมาแต่งงานกันกะทันหัน แถมเธอยังเป็นหัวหน้าของเขา?!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/y2pOOMkuFI0/mqdefault.jpg)
Thoughts on the new misogyny law that includes men below! Hit like, too!
Isn't misogynistc to reduce women to skirt & dress wearers? And anyone who carricatures this stereotype by using fake monsterboops and immersing himself im too much makeup is allowed to call himself a woman?
What about the risks that women face, like being less strong than men or getting pregnant by men, or having to endure periods for over 30 years - including terrible cramps and pains every month, if they are unlucky?
( hope you don't mind ) highly recommend this book, The Populist Delusion by Neema Parvini.
It's settling out the argument that the Liberal Managerial class aren't going to ever be voted out and that we need the elites to split.
Ok trans is BS against women
But
Feminism has destroyed the West
Fact checked
As a short, skinny 13-yo boy with long hair I went on holiday in Paris and I was SA'd twice by middle-aged men, who I assume mistook me for a girl, though I will never know for sure. Here's my Q: was I a victim of misogyny? I am still not sure what I think about this 30 years later. This is an actual thing that happened, not a thought experiment. The SA's were not that bad, but they were real, FYI. Whatever you go with does not make mine a good example to make a law from, of course.
@@chrisb9345maybe they didn't think you were a girl maybe they were gay? Or hebephiles? Certainly you were the victim of a horrible act whatever category that falls under
I disagree that the amount of interaction a child receives in the first years of life has no significance to their development. As a father of adopted children I have first hand experience of the damage that is done buy a lack of early years care. Their is significant literature on this.
Exactly. Human beings are all about attachment. Psychologists know that most mental health issues including narcissism and psychopathy are driven by attachment issues in childhood. Very ignorant on that count.
When did Ella ever say 'no significance'? Why begin from the experience of children in care system to generalise? The biggest mistake of this sort which very worryingly informed a lot of what Ella raised in the policy field is a beginning in the Romanian orphans. Children raised through most of history and in muich of the world you (inc you probably) develop well without the sort of rules being given all the time about the most specific things. Child play is actually destroyed by rules.
How are people dismissing this, even small babies who are adopted come with trauma from the loss of their birth mother. Babies are lots more affected by their surroundings and even during pregnancy than many understand. Like babies who are left without almost any human contact will die even if they are fed.
@@ellielee8609 Exactly. The problem with these types of initiatives are usually that it tends to pile on the pressure where it isn't needed, but does next to nothing to where it would really be needed.
You come up against diminishing returns. Children need interaction, but 99% of middle class babies will be getting that anyway. The benefit you get from campaigns like this is minuscule or non-existent. If you really wanted to tackle this you wouldn't do a flashy campaign, you'd think of ways to support at risk parents - health visitors, support groups, low-threshold baby/family clubs, all kind of things you could do.
That is a 🚩 for her . She did not allowed him to explore her view and she was aggressive and masculine in her response.
17:55 every single college student in America needs to hear these words. You're not special. Most people aren't. That's why the word "special" exists.
We've bred a generation of narcissists.
Spot on....!
Of course, as Ella remarks, Humza won't speak the truth, (about his Hate & Trans Legislation), because as a Muslim he knows it will offend a good many Muslims.
I might also add the labels , egotistical and victims , because almost all in that group make themselves a victim!
I believe they prefer the term “snowflakes”.
@@jameshennighan81931:01:22
Question: how do you tell if someone IS special, then? Honestly: if most people aren't special, that means that some of them still are, and how do you tell the difference?
I think what Ella says about Trans people being self obsessed and naval gazing all day long is so true. A great point bravely made!
I'm not convinced it's their navel they are obsessively gazing at.
It's a point that probably would've landed a bit better if she hadn't spent the latter portion of the interview sounding entirely self-obsessed and self-pitying, but it was a point well made.
I don’t think real trans people want anything more than being accepted as the gender they identify with.
The problem is that there are a lot of narcissist and other climbers out there who will self righteously leach onto anyone’s pain for their own advancement.
Being trans is all about being more special than everyone else, even so they warrant special laws.
Neurotic. Like women in general.
I don't think Trans Women get beaten up by men because the men perceive them as women, I think they get beaten up for the exact opposite reason. Not in anyway justifying it, just saying.
Agreed, also worth noting that the stats for assault on trans women generally come from those working in the sex industry. Most trans women are perfectly safe and if you were to compare the stats for gay men working in the sex industry Vs trans women and the violence both suffer I doubt there would much difference
Yeah, this is why the concept of "trans misogyny" doesn't make any sense to me. Any kind of hate they get is because people see them as anti-social men (which they are imo), not as women.
@@vanillamarshmallow or some level of homophobia which could be said to be rooted in misogyny. I don't think that's what the AGPs mean when they say they've experienced misogyny, usually they mean "someone didn't accept me as a woman"
@@RenegadeContextoh, so they've worn out 'transphobia' and are now further encroaching by claiming the category of contempt of women.
Agree..the men who feel justified in violence against trans do so because they feel ' fooled,' or ' set-up'. Again, not justifying just pointing out the reasons for violence against trans and violence against women are very different.
One important thing about being able to say something "horrible" is: We need to be able to say horrible things because there's a chance that those horrible things are TRUE! Life is ugly! Why do people think that something is untrue because they find it offensive?
Bc the truth hurts and we got a ton of namby pambies running around
Because we somehow found ourselves in a world where feelings prevail everything: thoughts, common sense, logic
She is absolutely correct, stopping people saying things doesn’t stop them thinking the same things
If anything, it causes them to retreat inwards and think those things even more.
It makes it very difficult to work out those ideas you know are wrong.
AGPs are going to LOVE claiming they’ve been a victim of misogyny. Very validating.
In addition to successfully colonizing women's spaces.
They already do. They have no self awareness.
They already have a word for it 😂 transmisony.
It'll give them "gender euphoria" or whats more commonly called "a boner." Affirming their fetish always gives them wood.
Yep. They're already being aided and comforted in knowing the conservative brocode covers them over women who were forced to develop feminism in the first place.
It's all a vicious cycle.
But early childhood IS important there are studies of abandoned babies and toddlers in old institutions who were never held & many of them died. They turn themselves face down on the floor in complete despair & they don't thrive.
Yeah, and I think it's really sad that the example of the intrusion into "parental authority" she gives is being told to not beat your children.
Gee that is much more extreme than not endlessly playing peek boo with a two month old
i gave my child a smack when he needed reinforcement - as in reaching for a stovetop or pulling the dog's ear@@BlueberryEnjoyer
As someone who actually got a Child Development degree and worked both in an extended daycare and a three hour program for stay at home mothers, I saw a difference between the two groups. The children who had stay at home moms had an air of innocence that the daycare children did not have. Also, formula is not the equivalent to breast milk. Breast feeding has a variety of benefits that formula does not have.
For the record, I never told parents how to discipline their children.
I worked with children from low income families and I did notice that the three to four year old children in my program were less advanced than the toddlers of my educated middle class friends. If you stop giving information on parenting you will end up with this divide. Is the answer to this is to stop telling parents how to parent?
BTW, peek-a-boo helps a toddler to develop object permanence, an important cognitive milestone.
@@missanne2908 100% Thank you.
My mother was traumatized in her childhood and she was cold as ice & physically & emotionally rejecting toward me.
Perhaps also in the past young mothers had extended families & neighbours around to share day care & love - now they are isolated & have to figure it out on their own.
As a working women with a supportive husband and a great deal of nanny help over the years my conclusion is that there is no replacement for mom. No one else thinks the same or is as attuned to their kid as mom. The more strangers and largely incompetents you bring into your family the more you will introduce problems. Schools have to start making schedules for working family homes and stop wasting our time on bullshit.
🔥🔥🔥
100% agree. There absolutely is no substitute for a mother and a father. And schools/education need to leave parenting to parents and stop making the public believe that there is one, single solitary teacher that can be afforded the RIGHT to discuss personal/delicate and family issues with YOUR child. People need to waken up and understand that teachers have absolutely (ABSOLUTELY) zero time to guide children through the minefield of pre-puberty, puberty, post puberty, gender ideology or sexuality. No 1. teachers are not qualified and are not privy to what is going on in the childs' home life. No 2. as a teacher, I'm scratching my head to remember when I had ANY time to spend with ANY child on discussing anything other than subject content/PROGRESS of the course I was teaching. Additionally, I am what I would consider to be a normal person, as such, I personally would feel extremely uncomfortable being asked such questions by a child and would direct them them to their parents. I would go even further and say that it would be crossing a societal line. Teachers are paid: to teach their subject/s. You will recall that teachers are forever complaining they have no time to do the job of teaching, assessing and marking homework. So where do they get the time to be Jordan Peterson??? It is cloud cuckoo land. They are not child psychologists, and they are certainly not surrogate parents.
I agree with you but let's not add even more pressure on education institutions to cater to every individuals needs. It's impractical and unfair.
@@malikrahman8649 re education preesure: 100%. Education is becoming so heavily politicised. That's to the detriment of teachers, pupils and parents.
This turned out to be a surprisingly fascinating conversation. As a mother of four, I can tell you, peek-a-boo is important (a little), reading to your kids is important (a little), hugs are important (a little more), but the two key things that mean more than all of it combined are 1. do you give them freedom--like lots of it--to play and explore and 2. do you set a good example. That's the whole ball game.
I'd add - be consistent. When father scolds so must the mother and vice versa.
@@mark4asp I actually disagree. I mean, it's probably pretty difficult for a child to understand very, very radical differences in approach between parents, but in truth, I think learning to navigate different approaches ultimately produces resilience and broader understanding of the way the world works. I raised two of my four children in Italy and saw this in action all the time. I was told point blank by an Italian father that the Italian way is usually for the father to shout his head off, then the child to run to Mom for hugs. I was horrified at first, but in the end, came to see that (its gender-role out-datedness aside: culture will be culture), it worked out just fine for the kids. In school, most Italian children immediately learn to identify which teachers are the hollerers and which are the huggers and adjust their behaviour accordingly. My kids, on the other hand, were far less resilient because my husband and I tried to be better partners and more consistent, so my kids had little idea that people could behave differently from us until they were thrust into situations they couldn't handle. That would have improved if they had been freer to explore as children (run around in the streets and interact with neighbours like we used to as children), but that's not a thing anymore, so they had only supervised play dates to go on--not enough in my opinion.
I like what she talks about at 54:26. I hate how people act like women can only be girlboss career women or tradwives. I have an aunt who never married or had children (by choice) and she’s not a “career woman” at all. Like I don’t understand why people act like those are the only two choices. And I agree with her, I hate how motherhood has turned into a status thing for so many women.
This is me, being married and not being a career woman but also not wanting to be a mother. I am a failure to both sides, which is massively discouraging. Honestly I just don't want to be a failure to myself. I'm just trying to get through life day by day, and living up to others' expectations isn't really worth it to me. Women, just as much as men, should be given space to just BE and to try to find their own purpose in their own time. So I appreciate this take.
Feminists criticised other feminists for this in the 60s. This is not a new argument.
Ironically, motherhood can mean a woman being either denigrated or elevated, depending on circumstances e.g. unmarried teen vs married lady staying at home to raise her children while the husband provides.
Funny old world, isn’t it?
Ella, parenting is a whole lot more than a bit of time spent playing peek-a-boo. If you didn't understand what it entailed and weren't prepared to put in the hard yards (and receive boundless joy too) then why did you do it? Your baby needs you and you won't get this time back again.
❤ exactly!
This conversation was generally going quite well and then she started talking about raising children and I thought "No! This is all wrong!". I'm glad it wasn't just me
Yeah, she's throwing out very contradicting ideas. I really hate the mentality of just pop the baby out and hand him to someone else, get back to you and what kind of woman you wanna be. Sorry to be harsh but the moment you decide to be a mother in a first world country being married and having money the woman you want to be doesn't really matter, the woman you HAVE to be is the best possible mother to your child. Steal some moments here and there to spend on your hobbies and dreams until they've grown.
Same for men obviously, the second you decide to start a family as a man you are on Dad Duty for the rest of your life, the man you dreamed of being when you were a teenager doesn't matter at all, you must take care of your wife and children to the best of your ability, provide for them in every possible way they need, make their dreams your own, work on helping them achieve their dreams and if you can steal a moment for yourself here and there every week then great.
If what I'm saying sounds soul crushing, then you don't yet understand that these sacrifices are the most meaningful thing a human being can do. If there is ANYTHING sacred in the universe it is the act of starting a family and dedicating your life to taking care of it. Do NOT involve the state in something that is sacred, the state can only ruin things, water them down, corrupt them.
The ideals I describe above may sound incredibly hard to achieve as well but that's exactly the point, that's why Ideals are Ideals and that's why we need them and it's worth pursuing them. In the exercise of trying to the best possible parents we'll fail because nobody's perfect, but we'll do an excellent job because we were shooting for the Ideal. The essence of those thoughts in the end "I need the state to create a great place with great employees where I can hand off my baby and get back to me" That breaks my heart. That's the path to ruin.
@@jag6262yes💯
@@vivienneb6199 no one is above criticism.
Politicians are the scum of thee earth
Yousef doesn't give damn about women, It his RELIGION!
Finally, someone who gets it. We're being distracted by the men. It's about putting the foot in the door for his religion.
When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles.
Islam in a nutshell.
@@ally4131 yup. That's their whole MO.
Sounds like you are describing Justin Trudeau as well,
Agreed.
Just listened to this one on Spotify. I love Ella. It's refreshing to listen to someone who doesn't have such extreme views for either side. She's so normal, and i think we need reminding that she is most of us. Social media has us believe the world's gone mad, but in reality, ask the everyday person on the street what they think about things, and i reckon they'd align with Ella.
Heretics is on spotify? i'm new here, didn't know that!
She's fantastic
Lol Ella is so reasonable that she dismisses any men that claim they dislike weaponised feminism as Incels 😂. Hmmmm. She is just another feminist that puts on a centrist beard to get invited on non left wing shows but is always shown up but actually rational centrist that don't excuse bad behaviour their whole career
She seems rather naive re the early years. Kids who don’t receive adequate love and attention during these years or any thereafter do develop problems. I see plenty of parents transfixed by there phone’s completely ignoring their children, which is one of the issues I think the early years is trying to combat. Quoting Bolsheviks and stating the community should raise your children well that didn’t work out so well for China! Extended family, close friends helping out yes, but not the ‘community’! All sorts of safeguarding issues there too! Agree with smacking! Outlawing it hasn’t eradicated child abuse anyway, so it’s pointless and sometimes kids do need a smack, which is NOT a beating. Childcare for working parents below a certain wage threshold should be free.
Just because you don't say something doesn't mean you don't think it. You don't know what's in someones heart.
Staying home and looking after your child is the most important job you could do.
@@softsophisticate Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Frankly, the creating and raising of our next generation is the most important job we do, be it mothers, fathers or grandparents.
@@softsophisticate
lovely, I sincerely wish you the very best.
I wish. As the main wage-earner, I was back at work as soon as possible - got to pay the mortgage! - while my other half (now my ex) went part-time. We needed two incomes to stay afloat and his went down less than mine would have…. This was the late 1990s, btw.
Its the new "elite" thing to do though. In a world where even dual income families are struggling, a woman with that option has a husband making a lot. That or he's working non-stop.
Yeah. You're forgetting That being good at taking care of a child and having money To be able are imperative. There are plenty of people that stay home with children that are horrible parents. Not everyone is good at their job. Some people shouldn't be parents.
Her take on motherhood and female inequality is just the norm of wanting it all. Many fathers don't get to be fathers because they are chasing a career. Why is it different for a woman? Funny how she also talks about how wonderful women are doing, while men are falling behind and calls it a "Failure of young...boys". Not that the SYSTEM is pandering to women and denying men because of their gender.
Yikes! Scotland is not Scotland anymore. It’s become radically queer. So scary and sad!
Ireland too. So sad... We have much better to offer...
Yes as a non scottish citizen , what would William Wallace say?
The ‘Brave’ thing was always nonsense. They’re pretty much famous for being someone else plaything.
Right? You should go back to being uneducated alcoholic wife beaters!
I was surprised at how compliant the Scottish were in general having lived there @@grrinc
Lost me at thoughts on childcare. Children are not a burden they are amazing. Nature is not to be overcome because the "most natural" people are the youngest.
She also has absolutely no idea about child developmental psycjology
@@adamofyorkshire I would say she is very switched on to the overblown and one sided accounts associated with it. She's very much in line with Jerome Kagan (the best of that field).
@@ellielee8609 Kagan ties temperament to biology which is absolutely true. But His views on attachment theory are far from mainstream thought. Modern attachment theory is nothing like that which Bowlby first proposed and it's criticisms have been well documented. Attachment theory has been significantly revised to reflect accurate critique through empirical study. The overarching concept of the significance of both a mother and father behaviour towards their child are solid, and underpin huge swathes of effective and empirically backed therapy.
So it is both true that one's temperament is somewhat biologically determined, whilst also underlining the importance of ensuring a child has secure attachment to at least 1 parent in the first 5(ish) years of life. For e.g. orphaned or adopted children often have disordered attachment due to environmental factors they are born into, and their temperament may (or not) partially predict which attachment style is developed.
@@adamofyorkshireit's hard to know from what to are saying what and how you make distinctions between disorder and what is normal. The problem, which Kagan was very alert to (as was Winnicott) is the completely unreaonable assumption that therapy as anything to do with normal family life. What Ella very briefly raised is the reprehesible assumption held by the NHS that parents in general need peek a boo lessons because all children are at risk of impaired attachment. Same idea held by Royal Foundation. My impression is by you also, maybe! No good to any parent.
What this lady is imagining as a “new way forward” is called family.
A family group of parents, grandparents, uncles/aunts and cousins. All connected by blood and kinship.
This is sadly lacking in the minds of many today. Recent generations have forgotten the strength of the family.
Yes, families are complicated, especially in today’s me, now, world but the degradation of the family structure has been the loss of everyone.
Seems pretty obvious that Humza Yousaf, being a Muslim of Pakistani descent - a religion and state both known for systemic oppression of women - is not at all a reliable source for what does or doesn't constitute misogyny.
Of course the above statement would just be waved off as racist and doesn't need to be thought about. But ask yourself this: is it true that Yousaf has routinely prioritized the interests of men who pretend to be women over those of actual biological women?
Only a true male chauvinist could consider fake women to be of greater importance than real women.
His education must not be aligned with science.
Indeed, same with free speech, no devout Moslem can accept free speech as that involves mockery of the prophet being on the table
I've heard that they prefer people to transition and act straight rather than be openly gay. I could be wrong, but I've heard it more than once.
@@Lydia-Frost Yes, it looks an awful lot like conversion therapy really.
thats why huwite women are always angry and unruly - muslim women are happier but you gammon are all simps
I don't understand the desire for childcare. As Ella said, she had a great upbringing with her mother being at stay at home mum. A stay at home parent (m or d) surely is the gold standard.
I'm so often fascinated when listening to Ella Whelan. Clearly a very intelligent, eloquent thinker, but so full of contradictions: insisting - when it comes to the trans issue - that biology matters, and then calling it "bioligist determinist" when society expects women to invest time and effort into child rearing, and dreams of a utopia where children can be entirely raised by the state (or alternatively by "hippie communes"), sounding like a crazed marxist feminist - while condemning feminism!
She often talks about "freedom from the state", but I remember her calling Labour's public spending plans under Jeremy Corbyn not "radical enough" wanting to see them doubled or tripled.
On another occasion on Spiked she critizised numerous blatant examples of anti-white racism - only to complain in the same breath about "crazy right wingers" who made the "absurd claim" that something as anti-white racism existed.
I could go on....
Intelligent? She's just repeating whatever stuff she heard on X.
She's obviously very confused. Her stance on motherhood is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time.
So she's a grifter then with floating principles 👍
She was a marxist feminist.
The men who engage with trans identity to victimize women, and/or fetishize women, would absolutely be victimizing and/or fetishizing women regardless of what women or feminism say or do. There is no way to be the perfect woman or feminist. Haters are gonna hate.. Anyways, I'll check out what's said in the episode. I appreciate gender critical/gender critical aligned voices. 🙂
Way to go: make a comment first, and THEN watch the video. What could be more logical?
Nah, it seems that as soon as they adopt fem persona they take on all fem traits (one of which is misogyny because wmn are most misogynistic)
@DieFlabbergast is she supposed to have her opinion dictated to her before voicing it for your approval? Back off hater.
@@SisterWomen under the new law noone will be able to pre-approve her opinion, but she can be jailed for it afterwards
There is no other category. Even HSTS hate us.
'Biology and nature is to be overcome' I couldn't agree less. To ignore biology and nature is a fast track to poor physical and mental health. These things happen to us for a reason, especially in terms of childbearing and to ignore it and palm it off on other people is asking for trouble.
Especially when she was just arguing that humans can’t change sex.
Her way of thinking about nature to be overcome directly led to lysenkism and the environmental devastation wrought in the Soviet Union and communist China because nature was to be bent towards man’s will. It also led to the idea that parents didn’t need a bond with their children. And all other kinds of nonsense. It’s clear Ella is not a scientist!
So true about police time being wasted. I remember being so angry hearing about a young woman who was being stalked and threatened constantly and fearing for her life, but the police wouldn't do a thing. Yet they'll turn up at your door if you 'misgender' someone online.
When you only want to bring in a misogyny law but not a misandry law then it's obvious that you don't believe in equal treatment and you intend for the law to be abused.
Excellent point.
That's always been the intention of feminism (ie subjugation of men to be a sl@ve labour dehumanised disposable underclass)
Which is exactly what all these laws are about, there is not a single anti-misandry law anywhere in the world, and even though discrimination based on s&x is illegal in the Netherlands, discrimination against men and boys is still allowed, several judges ruled that specific policies exclusively benefiting women and girls is "fine, because of historical oppression" but anything favouring men and boys is discrimination. This is also why many gender neutral viruses only ever get vaccinated in women and girls here.
No one thinks if it in the same way no one thought about little boys in school when they began focusing on girls and there is one reason why: Men. They constantly boasted they were "naturally superior, not getting extra attention you're just mad😂". So why would anyone think of it?
It might help if mn finally admitted some vulnerabilities and worked with wmn for common sense humanistic measures instead of all this us vs them stuff. We are not really from separate planets despite the metaphor.
I agree with Helen Joyce. I believe she speaks sense on women's issues and the trans debate.
"As a woman" "Speaking as a black person" - That's when you actually *are* those things. Men-claiming-to-be-women are trying to do identity politics when they are in fact the opposite category.
A very important distinction. One is annoying and egotistical maybe, but the other is a lie.
Talking about luxury beliefs, the idea that you can have equality because you can totally work when you are pregnant. What about labourers, or athletes?
Worse still are the low income working class women providing care for wealthier families children and elders while being taken away from their own.
Exactly she's only thinking of the desk job workers and has no regard for the millions of other hard jobs out there that isn't sat behind a desk at home. Complete disconnect.
Ella has swallowed whole quite a lot of the bs that creates the sex-wars.
What a wonderful lady. She needs to be given more coverage. Well done Andrew.
Women are not forced to have children. I don’t like Ella’s victim attitude to being a mother.
Indeed - having moaned about self-centred people trying to change normality for the sane majority... It seemed rather odd to then go on a long diatribe about how things clearly aren't fair for women because motherhood was more effort than she expected.
Agreed with most, but her wish to largely offload motherhood onto 'society' is absolutely wrong. Accept your womanhood and, if you decide to have children, be a proper mother to them, instead of chasing crap secular materialist values (career status etc.).
She is justifying what she is doing.
I completely agree, motherhood feminism is and should be about wanting what is best for your family, with your children at the centre, not what she seems to be promoting which is a way to still have her rights at the centre regardless of the impact full time childcare can have on children. Such a shame, motherhood really can and should override this kind of narcissism.
Hard disagree about being angry at William and Kate about Early Years. This isn't meant to oppress helicopter parents from high-status households. It's for new parents who grew up neglected or abused, and helping them learn how to break the cycle. Disappointed that Ella doesn't see this.
Yeah, god forbid someone tells a parent to not beat their children.
@@BlueberryEnjoyer well, it's telling parents to spend time with their children. What's wrong with that?
@@VesnaVK Theres nothing wrong with that. Ella Whelan was complaining that there was restrictions on parents beating their children.
I get the feeling Ella is feeling a little guilty about the amount of time she isn't spending with her child, so she mischaracterizes Catherine's Early Years program in order to feel better about it. Pretending the first two years of a child's life aren't vitally important is ridiculous. As if focusing on those years is WORSE than all of the atrocities Markle has committed!!!
@@SilverSixpence888 yes! It's bizarre, really. Especially considering how Harry and Meghan are managing the first few years of their own two children. Traveling the world extensively without their children, giving speeches about parenthood and children's mental health. Isolating them from their extended families on both sides, with the single exception of one grandmother -- the one who abandoned her daughter during her own formative years.
Surely her mother's absence played a role in how Meghan turned out. If anything, Meghan is a walking demonstration of what Catherine is fighting for.
So it's especially ironic that Ella would say that Meghan, with all her cruelty, is not as bad as a person who encourages parents to spend time with their children.
Like others here, I was enjoying Ella's opinion until her commentary on motherhood. It all sounded like her libertarianism extends to not allowing her child's needs to override her personal freedom. Western parenting has been selfishly geared towards parent convenience over the actual biological need that babies have for their mothers in the early years. Now that we know how important that bond is, it's hardly state authoritarianism that encourages mothers to stay home. On the contrary, the state loves Ella's idea of instutional daycare: man works + woman stays home = one taxable income. Man works + woman works + paid childcare worker = three taxable incomes.
Plus corporates love this as it drives down wages.
Everyone always blames women, wives and mothers. So blame feminism (again women).
Women are exceptional at 'policing' other women in to following social movements and trends. It doesn't take much to ignite a flame and have a fire run wild and see other women willingly throw themselves in to it and perpetuate it further. Just look at social media and the social dynamics that happen on them. I'm sorry, but yes, women do have some blame in this, it would of never of got to this point without their compliance and assistance.
because Feminism is a kancer ya plank, and u going on with victimhood when women are more privileged than men
As a result of young people, not understanding what feminism actually is, it does not mean we throw away the word “feminism”. I am a feminist who has nothing in common with the young so-called “feminists”.
I’m obviously older, not radical left, and I get annoyed with this younger generation who do not realise they stand on the shoulders of the feminists who came before them.
I don’t believe in “eternal gratitude”, but acknowledgement and recognition is just polite. This young woman is benefiting from women, like me, who fought for our voice to be heard. Does she believe anyone would care what she has to say if the feminist movement hadn’t happened?
Feminists are also not a homogeneous group.
You don't seem to understand what feminism is. It was always a movement of hate. Sorry love.
I get what you're saying, but unfortunately feminism has been corrupted at an institutional level. It's all well and good for a few women here and there to stand for the REAL principles of feminism, but its ultimately an echo that will fade out amongst the loud, hate filled rhetoric of what big feminism has become
I have to disagree.
The more feminist literature I read, the more I see that everything that's happening now is its logical progression.
The deconstruction of gender can be traced back to Simon de Beauvoir. All of the terminology, slogans and attitude of the millennial #girlboss came from 70's feminism.
And leveraging with disingenuous claims has always been the feminist modus operandi.
If all of this feminist tradition doesn't suit you, then why categorize yourself as a feminist?
I agree. Even men benefitted from it. It was the machosystem of hate we had in place already that even necessitated feminism.
So take that, Marky.
Liberating women from the responsibilities of motherhood is not a virtuous goal and has not been good for society. "Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." Motherhood is inevitable necessary and good for society and it is nearsighted and foolish to put temporary career gratification over the future happiness of your children. We need quality childcare not cheap corporate childcare.
People toss around "who is to blame" a lot. And blaming women for this is ludicrous.
We (pre gen Z) solved most of the broad social issues in the west. We really arrived at a great point where we now have to contend with nuance and economic issues. This generation has no broad issues to pool around. They've never experienced any real social adversity, they don't live in the age of hunger, no one is telling them they're not allowed to do something and they have too much low quality information to tackle.
They've purpousless, disconnected, unguided, narcissistic and ignorant. How do you expect them to function?
I mean they're literally asking employers if they can accommodate for 'time blindness" and alike nonsense.
They need to be lined up. Thought some discipline. TikTok and alike platforms need to be banned for kids.
It is ludicrous to blame this on women, especially when it was all done to benefit those who hurt women. Asking women to be caring to those in pain was the lure, and yes, women fell for it. Yet, if women don't comply, they are socially attacked.
I would agree with you to a point. Everything you have said is true if the middle and upper classes. The working class still suffer the sorts of misogyny that hold women back, racism still exists but to a lesser extent than before and classism is absolutely rife in the UK.
All of these middle class luxury beliefs have profound effects and the people who suffer the most are the working class
unfortunatley you are wrong. Feminism is to blame for this. Women and men who a feminist fight for this "inclusion" fight for men to invade our spaces. There is a small minority of women who stand up for the truth and unless the majority of women join us. Men will continue to be called women erase our rights.
Fair point. I'm looking at it from a perspective of historical progress. That's why I said broad issues and nuance. Because more narrowly theres still work, of course. @@RenegadeContext
@@malificentpurple From my observations, it's predominately 'modern' feminists who facilitate and promote this nonsense, whether they lit the torch is less relevant, they certainly are aggressively carrying it forward and pressuring gov't. To see an echo chamber of this behaviour look at sports and how quickly that got walked over, to the point no girl/woman dare say anything negatively and put their own wellbeing and interests first. I've seen many more men, many fathers in opposition to this (still do), only for them to be told they have no voice in women's spaces. By no means ludicrous to lay some blame on women. And, to one of the OP's points, we did do a lot of work, unquestionably we've since regressed, social cohesion and cohesion between men and women is faltering and falling backwards, I agree social media has much to answer for it.
The early years focus is about attachment. Healthy attachment or the lack thereof has a huge, lifelong impact. You only have to walk through any busy town to see many mums with small children who they're not interacting with at all, but maybe staring at their phone. I'm not saying this to bash mums but to point out that people don't necessarily KNOW the importance of being fully present with their young children.
From what I've heard from remainers in the last EIGHT years, has shown me one thing- it was the Brexit side who understood more about why they were voting than the remain side did. Even during our mainstream blitz on why we shouldn't leave, they only ever came up with how bad things would be if we left, never the positives of EU hegemony- because there were no positives for the little people.
People at the bottom have very little agency, the EU was going to take even more agency away from them.
What a wonderful woman. I'm not a UK citizen and haven't had opportunities to know who many of Andrew Gold's guests are. I'm grateful to be able to learn from Heretics guests.
his interview with Julie Bindel was much better as she has a more realistic viewpoint
I commented too early - the answer to Ella's question of can't we have something in the middle, is for both parents to work less and take it in turns doing house and family things.
So what most nuclear working class families did in the 50s?
@@softsophisticatemy parents both worked, because we needed the money. My Grandma, who lived with us, raised me. I wish my mother or mother-in-law had been well enough to care for our boys while my hubby and I went to earn a living.
The working classes didn’t have luxuries like stay-at-home mothers back in the day, and they don’t now.
I don't think people are fetishizing laundry and cooking.....but as part of homelife, it can be done well and a job well done should be celebrated. Buccee's is a famous chain of gas stations who tout clean bathrooms. It's not a fetish, it's a freakin' awesome experience for a gas station. No one's getting off on it.
I don’t think it’s very easy for women to work throughout pregnancy, give birth and then go back to work. That’s why equality is so hard to achieve.
It was supposed to be equal opportunity. It got warped into "having it all" by all the gurus looking to make the bucks back in the 70s and 80s.
The problem is why do you honestly want that? It honestly used to be single moms that had to do it or poor women. And society would support them other women would help out but somehow Carrear women want to paint themselves as they have to choose work! and they need the support that was given to those single women. Most of them don't need the money their men can support them the just value money and Carrear climbing than anything. They are addicted to it.
@@denireynolds9599 I personally think working while pregnant sounds horrific. But there’s many reasons women may want to work … independence, career etc. it’s also dangerous for women to solely rely on their male partner financially. Not saying all men beat or abuse their partners but it puts women in a very vulnerable position. I guess I don’t know what the solution is!
@denireynolds9599 This is a very unfair take. Women are human beings just like men are. This needs to be said?! We all have temperaments that drive us in different directions. Sorry deni, but I don't want to be beholden to menfolk who may (may!) hold it over me, or the alternative of being poor seeking handouts. Dude! Seriously!
You can have your family and live at home full time doing the good work of raising kids. That's fine. But other women wanting something different isn't an insult. To say it is is akin to trtran saying "JK is phobic bc she wants women's spaces." Eyeroll.
Being pro woman is NOT the same as being anti YOU.
None of this would be happening if the system in place was truly merit based and not the crony system where they got to fail upwards, shutting other citizens out. Men who prefer the home life could have done the home daddy thing.
It is so obvious to me. Why can't more people see this obvious truth? Y'all got corrupted by the shoulderpadded gurus who was only in it to sell books.
@@denireynolds9599I replied a very fair rebuttal but it's missing. But to the quick: Your post is very unfair to humans of the XX chromosomes who don't share your temperament or dreams. To expect us who don't to be poor? Dude!
I absolutely agree with Ella - I have, for the last decade now, only called myself a women's liberationist or women's rights advocate (rather than a feminist). We need to re-grasp the suffragette nettle and get back to basics. Women don't want to be 'equal' to men, we have always wanted equality of opportunity according to ability and an end to stereotyping and sexism.
Great for her that she worked up till she had a c section. Not all of us have easy pregnancies. Especially with multiples.
Yes, she isn't very good at seeing things from any perspective but her own.
I worked (desk job) until 2 weeks before my first son’s due date. Easy pregnancy, no problems. Four weeks later, after three days in labour, I’m rushed for an emergency C-section. Ditto second child, although the hospital only gave me 24 hours to try for vbac.
Would I have elected for a section? Heck, no. Perhaps “too posh to push” is Ella’s pov.
@@SilverSixpence888 cos shes a woman - solipsistic and self-centred
I disagree that we can invent alternatives to the direct care of the mother for an infant that would be in any way as sufficient. Men are not mothers, men are fathers. I say this as a gay man. I’m grateful for having a mother and a father, and I’m grateful that my mum was everything I admire in a mother. No man could do what she did innately.
I agree a lot with Ella and what she says but at the same time I feel she gets some issues wrong. frankly she seems like an old school feminist
There's no glamour in cleaning the house Or doing the washing in the same way as there's no glamour in mending a sewer or building a ship or building a Road. both men and women have to do what needs to be done with the person best suited doing it. Out of doing the washing and mending a sewer most women would choose doing the washing.
It's not the actual hugging and how often you do it that's important it's the fact that you do do it. It is the attention and the engagement that the young child the baby receives that has the impact. Youwatch mothers delivering their children to play school and you'll see that a large percentage of them are lost in their mobile phones rather than paying attention to their children. I believe this is what the you must hug your children initiative comes from. And it's only natural and has happened forever for mothers to be concerned about whether they are paying their child enough attention. It's that fact that they're aware of the problem which is good. being lost in your mobile phone and paying your child no attention is where the problems come from.
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I would, too. In fact I do all household chores. I would not like to clean sewers, though.
Ella Whelan is breathtakingly fierce and amazing ! 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
Something I think should be pointed out is where Ella mentioned the relative underperformance of boys and men and said that we should discuss "why they're failing". When women did not attend university in numbers and earn more money than men, the discussion was never why they were failing, but why society was failing them. Even now, the discussion - even when mentioned sympathetically - fails to recognise that accountability is forced onto men disproportionately for failures, without the reward of the credit for their successes.
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Huh? Since when are men not recognised and rewarded for success? Thats the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.
This is wrong. The system before refused to acknowledge boys got disproportionately more and better future-independence building attention than girls did. The response to this fact was a whole lot of haughty laughter. Mn refused to admit it so the system put into place to help girls took these mn at their word. You can't rewrite this history.
It is astonishing how blind so many people are to this. As usual, it's tehwimminz fault. 🙄
Another cart before the horse reply. It was boys getting disproportionately superior future-independent building attention yet the mn at the time refused to admit it. So the new methods took them at their word, but you want to blame anyone else?
“Biology and nature are always to be overcome. Nature is to be overcome by man, it’s to be harnessed, it’s to be challenged, it’s not to ever be a barrier.”
hmmm that’s almost an argument for…something I can’t quite put my finger on. whatever could it be
Started strong but then completely fell of a cliff into an incoherent mess.
How misogynistic!
@@OrwellsHousecat Why is it misogynistic? The coherence of her arguments has nothing to do with her sex. YOU are the misogynist for assuming it did...
@@OrwellsHousecat😂 can my statement be misogynistic if I'm a woman calling another woman out...
@@Xii371 because, like the hate crime law, anyone (eg me) can claim that they feel it could potentially be offensive to someone else known/unknown.
It's true that in practice wmn are immune to many laws, or the negative consequences of their actions, but the misogyny law counts for everyone.
Wmn are most misogynistic, much more than men, do the misogyny law will allow men/trns to report wmn for their crimes.
Finally, wmn can get held accountable for their evil disgusting misogyny so we can stamp misogyny out of every dark corner it resides.
Scotland said they're ready to build two brand new wmn's prisons to house the offenders that the new law would create.
For England & Wales they're already doing a consultation with existing fem prisoners on what features their new prisons should have to specifically cater for wmn but they haven't confirmed how many cells/prisons they'll build.
Brand new non-misogynistic prisons will make fem prisoners so much better off than the old fashioned ones, so it's a win for wmn on all fronts.
@@Xii371yes
Amazing interview!❤
Thank you Ella, spot on!
Thank you for chatting with Ella ❤
46:33 - funny that, up to this point I was listening when she talked about "board room feminists" and such. Suddenly, she's up there with them. "Well, I worked up until the hour before". Yes, and I expect that you think a cleaner, a shop assistant, or any "working class" woman can do the same. Well, I know women who were not able to work their jobs 3 months into their pregnancy, but who cares - we have birth control and easy births now, you can just pop them out in a couple hours and go back to being a drone for someone else.
Yes, there are people, "incels, I guess", who think both a child and a mother have a value.
Yes, just pop it out and drop it off. Not my problem, I'm free and equal, strong independent waman. Here are the values of a modern woman.
Yea that was shocking, she thinks just because she could do that, because she has a job that allows her to just sit around, of course she could work right up to it, because her job is no different than just sitting around doing nothing.
Thank you Paula and Andrew, this was a very interesting interview. I have been subscribed to Paula and to both of Andrew's channels for a while and see Paula on lots of lives too on other channels.
who's Paula?
I just noticed because I was listening & not watching that you seldom pulled her her up when she made, almost continuously at some points, massive contradictions & also there were points where she pivoted on her marxist framework simultaneously decrying the interference of the state in domestic life whilst invoking the very intrusion of state into all aspects of life: consequently I found her thinking muddled & more often than not ideologically hindered by her desperate need to maintain an authentic marxist orientation to the discussion; if I had a transcript it would be easier to highlight but there were moments of lucid thought here which seemed unmoored & dislocated
What made you think she's a Marxist? Or do you mean she's unconsciously one?
When a government tells you what you can and can’t speak about, you are on a slippery slope to a nightmare. Open speech and full debate from all sides helps people choose the best way forward.
She’s adopted a masculinist view - that fulfillment pursued through a male-dominated perspective is proper. The truly feminist perspective would be that prioritizing familial relations is superior and that it’s sad that men must pursue resources outside the family because resources are required to sustain a family.
I totally agree that we should have as much freedom of speech as possible. It's so much better to know what people actually think and who they truly are. Any time I see some misogynistic comments on FB, I'm like "Oh, these guys seem to hate\be afraid of\ women, good to know!" This way I feel safer and in more control.
The discussion about parenting and motherhood and state intervention struck a chord with me. Mine are grown now, but I well remember feeling I had to accept a health visitor coming into my home to offer very much unwanted 'advice and support' and having to suffer this intrusion, else there was the fear that you'd be put on a 'bad parent' list somewhere, being watched. I well remember my one-word curt answers to the health visitor's questions and false chirpiness just to get through this nonsense as quickly as possible and get the bloody woman out of my house!
Often the well meaning advice being given by ppl who are not parents themselves.
Rather you be annoyed with the intrusion than yet another child falling through the gaps.
Indeed. And the government is giving the DW&P authority to arrest/confiscate property/fine/look into finances & spending of claimants (including those on pensions). Stasi world we're in and I'm 💯% sure no one voted for this.
Unlike you (I hope) there are genuinely bad parents. And it is important that children are actually protected from them. Not sure what other solution you can offer to identify whether a child lives in a good home or a bad one. As for advice: there is always room for improvement. But overall you don't have to obey to what the care worker says if you are a good parent..
@@spongya77 The vast majority of parents are doing a good job and blanket overkill through unwanted, intrusive home visits is not the answer. Linked up social service provision, policing, schools, healthcare and safeguarding are a better solution that targets those actually in need.
I'm with Ella on the trans stuff, totally, But, she's a good ole' lefty at heart. She's got some growing to do yet- still hanging on - but great interview, thanks so much for it.
Finally! Ella and the Spiked crew are the probably most sensible Political and Social pundits. The Tom Slater ep was great, and I'm sure this one will be too
Wonderful Ella, agree on your synopsis of State versus Motherhood. Let Women do it exactly how they want without judging.
Well, obviously the meaning of feminism has changed in the last 40 years. It used to be that feminism was women who wanted equal rights. Real women. Now it’s something totally different. All I hear these days is that feminism is to blame. Back in the 80s feminism just meant equal pay and equal rights under the law, apparently now it’s something I do not understand because all I hear is women talking about how bad feminism is
Feminism is subjective. Destruction happened with man-hating, female quotas and now the support men over women.
Have you actually read any of the Feminist Theorists or are you just reflecting on the adverts for feminism which are designed to gain your buy-in
Feminists of the 1960's and 1970's often wrote anti-male pieces (think of the SCUM manifesto, or the fact that the term "the future is female" comes from a woman wanting to rid the globe of 90% of all males), if you discriminate against a group for being "born wrong" (males) then that group wanting to belong to the clearly socially privileged group is obvious. If Feminism was actually about gender equality then we wouldn't have seen such a large rise in transwomen.
@@OrwellsHousecatI’ve read them all. I don’t agree with everything all of them say-like any group of people. But broadly, the commenter is right. Feminism to the feminist on the street is equal rights and no discrimination on the basis of being a woman.
equal rights? good joke😂
It irritates me when people try and tell me what feminism is. Equal opportunities is the whole story imo
There are many schools of feminism and some are down right dangerous. I always ask people what they mean when they say feminism whether they are pro or against just to be clear.
I agree with you it should be about equality
@RenegadeContext Good idea, because it has become such a nebulous term, that it requires more clarification now than ever before.
I never thought I would hear self-proclaimed feminists defend the right of men who call themselves women to railroad their way over women's boundaries and into women's spaces, but such is the case in 2024.
Thus, when someone proclaims themselves a feminist, we can no longer assume that they won't support policies that are bad for women and girls.
Feminism has morphed. The hate men and cut them down Feminism has been the most destructive.
It was, but has been co- opted and bastardized by bad faith players....
Well that's your opinion. But there is an actual definition depending on which wave of feminism you are talking about. And most waves were led by upper middle class women who wanted onto the board and gave 0 shits about working class women (or men). I think the rampant misandry in the western world is a direct result of feminism. Because women didn't want equality. They want all of the rights they perceive men to have and none of the responsibilities. And they want to take men's rights away for certain things. But give men even more responsibility. I don't understand how any woman with a son can be a feminist.
Excellent discussion...I have been uncomfortable with the "feminism" label for years as I'm not keep on leaping on the latest iteration...
I agree - our "identity" isn't WHO we are it's just an outward manifestation of ourselves that's now linked to whatever is trending. Time to get back to making our who we are in character rather than outward presentation as the most important.
Trouble for women is the impossible cost of living, childish men and and society that doesn't support family life. All intertwined.
Yes this.
u mean angry entitled wimmin constantly screeching about injustices that dont exist?
Ella; thank you for speaking for me. You are so tuned in to reality and erudite about the current political situation. You should be chairing a debate programme on BBC1 every evening at 7PM instead of a bland load of crap being dished up for the 'great unwashed'. The political elite have patronised working class people for decades now.
When children are failing (young working class boys) it’s “their failing” when adult women are failing they need liberation apparently. Insane.
Are we pretending that women were not literally not allowed to do various things for ages? And that they still do the majority of house chores and caring for others?
@@roaroa5291 are you agreeing that when children fail it’s their fault and when women fail it’s not their fault 😂 okay, I guess.
What is your opinion?
@@Gingerblaze well seeing as children OBVIOUSLY have less autonomy than adult women. I think it’s insane to say them failing is their fault but women failing is not their fault.
Feminism:
every credit & compassion is for fem.
Every discredit & disdain is for male
@andrewgoldheretics Thank you very much for the tremendous work you put into Heretics.
The Royal Children Hospital gender clinic in Vic Aust literally told my autistic male child that THEY can make him a woman. Instead they have made him a eunuch.
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You could have said no.
@@SilverSixpence888no, under Victorian law she couldn’t have. It’s illegal by punishment of prison to engage in @conversion therapy which is considered anything less than affirming your child. If you seek care that does not affirm their gender belief, you can be jailed. If you take them out of the state to do so, you can be jailed. I have read the act. It’s sadly true.
I will never take my child to that hospital for that reason. They terrify me. It’s Monash for me!
Victoria seems to be the very worst state in Australia for this gender woo and authoritarianism. Everytime time I hear insanity coming out of Aus it's Victoria sadly.
Ella and Helen Joyce I can listen to for hours.
This is why we didn't want misogyny laws, it will be just another tool for these men to use against women. Graet new about the schools guidance though.
Helen Yes. Ella absolutely Not. She is completely incoherent when it comes to "we need to overcome our biology" wtf? We are our biology. Helen would defeat her weak arguments in an instant.
Please don't put this woman on the same level of Helen Joyce lolz!! Helen is LITERALLY one of the greatest minds of modern history. This lady? Not so much.
I had so many mixed feelings and disagreements with what Ella was saying, I also agreed with her too. I was pleasantly surprised at the end when she discussed the event where they hold the debates on many different topics.
I think everyone forgets birth rates are low because people can’t afford babies. As for her simplification of peekaboo and hugs for 2 years, it is very important in those early formative years that babies and toddlers are touched, loved and engaged with. Let’s face it with the spanking issue, many parents do it when they’re really angry. Kids get hurt, belts, wooden spoons and other objects are used. I raised my two nephews because my sister was abusive to them when they were little. She had SA trauma and addiction issues and their father was too busy with a new family so I said please give them to us.
My point being that Child Protection Services in every country are overwhelmed because you can’t just let mothers be. Probably a high percentage of them you could but not all.
I’ll leave it at that but as always thank you very much Andrew and Ella for the interview. ❤️
Edit: I did want to add there’s nothing wrong with a slight smack on the back of a child’s hand if they’re about to do something dangerous such as touch something hot, or pull the cat’s tail.
She feels guilty for not spending enough time with her child because she is too busy working, so she pretends it doesn't matter. Probably.
👍 Exactly how I felt. She had many sensible takes I agreed with, but also many others where I felt she either misdiagnosed the actual problem or was flat out wrong. Very interesting.
@@SilverSixpence888 I got that feeling too. She also said that she didn’t have a problem with Trad Wives but then went in to “have a dig” about them finding pleasure in home duties like doing the laundry and cooking meals because she’s busy and looks for what she can throw together for dinner. There were a couple of other points in there on the same topic.
I got married at 19 yrs of age back in 1987. I live in Australia and I was working as a Veterinary Nurse for a Country Vet Practice which I absolutely adored. We did large and small animals and sometimes wouldn’t start our Horse surgery until 10pm at night at a special Equine facility in Kinglake Victoria!. On these occasions I’d get home at 2-3am and then be back at work by 8am the next day. I was so happy. Hubby was an accountant and wanted me to play housewife. I tried my best on my days off. Just after turning 21 he told me that it was time for me to give up work, stop hanging out with my girlfriends, settle down and have kids. Oh and I could play tennis with his mother if I wanted. 😂😂 I was still playing netball, basketball and Indoor Cricket. I said you can have the house, I’m taking my dog, a beautiful Border Collie named Rowdy and we left.
Some women are meant to be and happy to be Trad Wives and I applaud them. My mum was there for us until our teens as Dad was in the Army. Then my Grandparents moved in. Ella was all over the place with her arguments. I’m so glad I got to raise my nephews, they needed more love, care and understanding because of what my sister had put them through. At that stage of my life I’d become physically disabled and unable to continue my Vet Nursing career, so I had more time and love to give to the boys. I was single, living with my parents so we had extended family helping all the way.
Sorry, that went a bit longer than I meant it too. 😂💜
With being a mom you can't just choose to opt out from somethings it's cheating to just have someone else discipline your child or have someone else be there all the time it's boring for everyone it's a lesson on humility that makes you a better parent you change into a more patient person and learn to value the little things in life. When kids are older we can pursue the fame and glory of work if we still crave it.
No one can afford housing obviously we will have low birth rates. Unfortunately they force mass immigration on us just for the sake of GDP growth.
Ella needs to read The Continium Concept. It is established beyond doubt the effects of poor parenting, and the positive impact of constant physical contact on infants.
You need to define what you mean by equality. Because for feminists it means a woman reentering the workforce at the same level after a break, which a man could not do. It means continuing to refer to the pay gap as “women being paid less for the same work” when the pay gap does not account for overtime, physically demanding or dangerous roles vs office roles. To close the pay gap in particular industries would eg mean paying nurses as much as surgeons, or cabin staff as much as pilots.
Though I think it’s worth asking: Why can’t someone re-enter the workforce at roughly the same level after parental leave? It’s feasible to have them covered by someone on a temporary contract. And most industries don’t change that much in a year.
If the answer is _“It’s inconvenient to businesses.”_ I’d be inclined to say: _“Well, tough. Sustaining the human race might be more important than sustaining corporate profitability.”_
@@andybrice2711 Well if you have 'parental leave' that right is assured I believe, but of course it's time limited. It also depends upon the job. If the job requires currency of knowledge, a man can't just go for a multi-year break and expect to claim his former role. (And typically it will be multi-year.) Particularly when there are others trying to climb the same advancement ladder. You tell me, what is fair? Of course, if you just accept there are functionaries in 'temporary contract' class whose futures you dont much care about, then the problem is solved right quick!
@@paulwary Yes, certainly if it’s multiple years, you can’t expect to take back the same role at the same organization.
There are jobs advertised as being cover for parental leave. I think that’s fair enough if you warn someone they will be unlikely to have a permanent role.
Of course another way to equalize it further is to encourage men to take more paternity leave. I don’t expect it will ever be completely equal, because of biology. But I think it might benefit everyone if we moved towards a culture where fathers spent more time parenting. And one can make that argument from both progressive and conservative viewpoints.
That's not feminism.
In the states, “pay gap” generally refers to equal pay for equal labor. Male and female nurses, with similar work histories, should get paid the same.
What a fascinating, intelligent conversation. Thanks so very much, you two. You’ve hit on so many crucial elements of why society and politics is in such a diabolical mess. Congratulations on a wonderful video.
When Andrew said "say what you want and fill yer boots", I slammed the :subscribe" button fast and hard .My kinda guy !!!!!
Excellent analysis 👌🏽The working class communities are always steps ahead than academic and political people would have folks believe. They simply jump on the bandwagon, co-opt it, and then resell it. 💅🏽
I call it late stage Liberalism.
Looking forward to this.
I love the end of this when she discussed parenting now. So much pressure for moms to hover over their children and make them the absolute center of our universe. I love my child more than anything but the pressure to be the perfect parent that causes absolutely zero harm to my child is ridiculous. We’re humans and kids are not made of glass.
Parents wouldn't even tolerate a grandparent getting involved in the mirco-management to that degree of how to raise their child, why would they tolerate it from a government that really, really, really has no business or frankly understanding, telling them how to raise their children. Look how well the management from Mt. Olympus, one-size-fits-all approach worked with the recent so-called health crisis. Not. Maybe people are the true experts on their own lives. If I had to bet on who would do a better job and make less damaging mistakes, I'd bet on the parents, who love their children and would die to protect them.
It is worth thinking about why, in recent decades, it is so common to hear ‘centrist’ people in the public eye say “ I have never in my life voted for the Conservatives”, but not ”I have never in my life voted Labour“. Given that more people have voted Conservative than Labour since the war it is strange way to say “ I’m not actually a baddie despite what I’m saying”. Mind you with this government I sympathise with anyone distancing themselves from them.
I can't agree that if you choose to have kids the rest of us have to pay for your choices eg with free childcare. Parents need to take responsibility. Choose.
I think there is some broader social good to supporting parenthood though. We want a sustainable population full of healthy, happy, productive people. Not a declining, aging population full of people with difficult childhoods and distant parents.
@@softsophisticate There will always be lazy/manipulative people. People/ parents need to prioritise/ take responsibility. Families share responsibilities - male and female. They shouldn't be palming them off to the state, or the rest of us.
Super impressive interview. This channel just keeps on improving. Thanks Andy, thanks Ella... may need to help on Patreon.
Didn't Joe Rogan say that men will just morph into whatever they need to get ahead.
Mum's need to look after there own children in the early years not put them in state orphanages
Either moms or dads can fill this role but it is time people realize it is a FULL TIME JOB and treat it with the respect it deserves.
@@xWriterclarenocturnexx There should be much better support for abandoned mothers and their children, not mothers abandoning their children for their work.
Yes, it’s important for an infant to spend plenty of time with their parents. But I doubt there’s any harm in being with a babysitter for a few hours a day.
People have surely been sharing childcare responsibilities since the beginning of human history. Even other animals do that.
The lack of any clear difference between the political parties is a function of globalisation. When capital and investment can move easily across national borders, politicians in power, regardless of party, have no choice but to keep their country 'internationally competitive' - that is, attractive to international capital, corporations, etc. That's why party differences have eroded.
I think that the level of cognitive dissonance it took for this lady to claim that men who believe feminism is weaponised are "incels", immediately after describing how an activist judge literally tried to claim that disagreeing with feminism was essentially a hate crime, is pretty hilarious.
I've seen this lady on other shows and unfortunately she's really just a chameleon. She can come across as reasonable on some issues but, despite her protestations, is a copy and paste modern feminist in her actions and views. Particularly in her callous disregard for actual men's issues which she always disregards with considerable contempt.
I think Douglas Murray was the one who said "some people you can predict with 100 percent accuracy what their stance will be on pretty much every topic based on a short conversation". This lady is very much in this ilk.
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Interesting criticism
This woman lives in a fantasy world where she can have her cake and eat it too. Boohoo I don't like laundry, you think the garbage man loves picking up after you, no they do it because they must.
I agree and it is frustrating me how many people in the comments think she is so brilliant! Even comparing her to Helen Joyce ffs!!!
She contradicted herself hard on the trans issues, one view at first and then at the end with the "biology is to be overcome, anything is possible" she just countered herself. Biological determinism for thee but not for me aparently XD
When you censor Communication you censor Education! Thank you for having the conversations Andrew.
Love Ella! Can't wait
same here, in Goldap
consider visiting some day, by the by
Also Katherine Hepburn to Humphrey Bogart in The African Queen: “ Nature, Mr Alnut, is what we were put in this world to rise above,”
Then she went on to have sex with him. And later they were married by the German captain shortly before they thought they were going to be executed.
By the ridiculous definition of the word 'transphobe'... I'm proud to be one.
Edit: typo
I’m right there with you! If you criticise anything you get labelled 😂
Didn't see that coming bitter women who didn't want to respect or listen to men anymore are now either having to be half the value of a man with islam or compelled to respect obey and listen to men in dresses great work ladies, must go learning russian and Japanese 😇🙏♥️
(Japan is worse - hence birthrate and now they're immigrating from Islamic countries)
Ironic.
Greetings from Portugal 🇵🇹
Love Ella .. common sense women's champion.