Good offseason work, even if you aren't hitting the times you're currently looking for. Offseason training is always a weird period (especially when we're training solo, lol), so it's important to remember the progression is real and takes some time to occur. I sprint and jump at Manchester, so I'll be looking forward to seeing you progress this upcoming season. Hoping the current training is going well for you, boss
Thanks for the comment! Yeah man training solo is a big adjustment. I appreciate your reminder to hang on and trust the process Looked up your times, you're pretty dang quick. What are your goals this year? Gonna get that sub 11 100m I bet
@@SimonShawk5 Hey man I appreciate it! I ran 10.80 at conference last year, but yeah technically not wind legal (+3.1). Didn't have a good start, so there's a bit more there. Goal is to go sub 10.5 this year. Sounds ambitious, but I've ran .93s recently from 30-40m, which helps back that up. Consistently running around .95-96s. Main goals are for long jump. Had some long fouls at the end of last season (7.30m+), and the technique has improved tremendously. Looking to place at nationals there. Keep up the good work!
Get ahead of the Achilles pain as soon as you can. I pushed through it for a long time and it is taking forever to return to somewhat normal. All I can recommend is load management and heavy slow calf raises. Best of luck to you!
I've been working on it basically nonstop since this video, made some good progress. I appreciate the wakeup call. Glad you've made some progress with your own problems, and I'd highly recommend throwing in some 30-45 second isos as well as very gentle extensive pogo hops on top of those slow calf raises. I've felt great benefits from all of those things combined
I do totally recognize the reasoning for doing more anaerobic work as a 400m athlete, but remember that it doesn’t always have to come in the form of shorter rest times. Your athleticism is statistically phenomenal at this point, and I personally think that focusing on longer runs(450) with full recovery might benefit you more. When you see your workout times getting so much slower like you have now, you need to dial back the volume a lot. A decrease in performance is a good sign when preparation and fitness is your goal, but you have over-exerted yourself here imo. Not much of a problem with what you are doing though because your body might just genetically prioritize aerobic expenditures, and focusing on anaerobic work might be more beneficial. 400m training is very enigmatic in this way, you have to be adaptive and switch methodologies, sometimes drastically. However, I think your speed has certainly suffered from that style of training. It certainly might not be a concern, because you just hit a 10m fly pr (congrats btw), but you have to consider possible confounding variables here. Any deload at all in terms of volume or intensity? Intensity is an especially tricky confounding variable to look out for when interpreting results, because you may feel even more tired, but actually be deloading. Any changes in sleep, stress, work/love life, nutrition, and bodyweight are all certainly variables which can have drastic effects, especially when aggregated. You’re doing amazing, but just know that Hurst’s training will certainly impact your speed, and in my opinion, isn’t optimal once you start getting a really insane level of fitness and start running some super quick times. Overall though, great stuff man. I look forward to your peaking phase for sure.
Thank you very much for the kind words. You gave me some great food for thought. I'd love to hear more about what specifically you think is optimal. I'm feeling stuck between two worlds because I used to be very anti-slow running, and logically that argument makes a lot of sense. At the same time, I feel aerobically unfit, and I worry it will affect my recovery and performance in the long term. I also do appreciate how slower days give you something to do in between the faster days, since of course you can't sprint maximally on multiple back to back days. I'd love to hear loosely how you think a week should be set up, what sessions should go where, and how you believe someone can tell if they're "fit" enough aerobically to handle the volumes and intensities of 400m training and competition
@SimonShawk5 not that you asked me but you should look into Clyde Hart's approach to the 400m when he was training Baylor and the likes of Jeremy Wariner, Darold Williamson and Michael Johnson. He basically periodized them like an 800m from preseason to peak/post, but utilized top speed workouts and plyos to maintain comfort at faster paces iirc. He would even have the base training include 1 mile cross country runs on grass
Your volume doesn’t seem sufficiently targeting the 4. 1) your not demonstrating volume that stimulates the lactic system effectively - I’ve seen acceleration work, extensive tempo work and some (minimal) intensive tempo work. But training that last 200 the way you have won’t be super effective since your going to be largely fatigued aerobically rather than anaerobically. It’ll be just a large amount of free radicals but not much acidosis. 2) We should like to see MUCH more rest. 10-20mins. Pure speed work takes such a toll on the body and CNS and if you are hitting it at all in intensive tempo to train it you need to be as recovered as you can. 3) The ISO’s are cool but what are they intended for? Stiffness Conditioning? PAP for gym? Purpose is important and it doesn’t seem too clear why post-session ISO’s would be preferred over pre-. Also, I’d be targeting the Achilles much more. Dorsiflexion emphasised ISO’s or DYNAMO’s are probably more wanted wouldn’t you think?
What I found to help I always do a plyo exercise after any top end speed. Instead of iso holds. Like I’ll do alternating bounds, then 3 continuous broad jumps, hurdle hops, and then do hurdle hops but jump from a deep squat for the accel part and saw a lot of progress
Mike Hurst’s training is a better version of Clyde hart’s training. Clyde harts workouts were ran really slow and relied on people’s natural speed. Mike has a lot of work done at 400m pace. For weekly/annual periodization you should look at how Boo Shexnayder sets up his training. For weekly periodization he does high-neural days and low-neural days. High days would be max V / acceleration, heavy lifting, and plyos. Low days would be tempo running, GPP circuits, maybe long duration isometrics, bodybuilding lifts, and lactic work. Lactic work is used sparingly. Low days always follow high days. Usually something like Monday + Thursday are high days, Tuesday + Friday are low days.
Liking the move to a more concurrent program, and Mike's a really good start for that, assuming you're using a set up that was prescribed from the Lactate forum ebook?. As for the SE1 and 2 work, id honestly say its too early to target those distances within those windows you mentioned, id do breakup runs (special endurance) to allow you to adapt to the workload required initially and then progress these out to full runs.
Yes sir it is from the lactate forum. What distances + speeds are you referring to when you say breakup runs? In my mind I've been targeting special endurance with the 200s, 300s, etc
@@SimonShawk5 ok, maybe some terminology differences here, what you refer to as "special" prob should be called "specific," that being Se1 and Se2 etc, "special" endurance is the use of shorter reps and recovery to build capacities and tolerances that support SPE / Se1 /Se2, so something like 3x80 r1 instead of a 250 as an example or 2x150 r1 instead of a 300 etc. So in this instance, the 5x200 r2 that you do although are classed generically as Intensive Endurance, is a form of Special.
HEY SIMON, you are 1 of a few track athletes that motivated me to start my own TH-cam channel, sharing my journey as a track athlete but i must ask, WHAT camera you use to give you such great quality?
Glad to hear there's interest in this. I learned a ton from this thread forum.charliefrancis.com/t/lactate-threshold-training/18726/1646?page=90 my understanding is that KitKat1 is Mike Hurst and he leaves tons of knowledge in the thread. I read all the way to page 90, which is where the link takes you (so you'll want to navigate to page 1 most likely) Hopefully this helps and if you'd be interested in a video diving into this I'd certainly consider it I'd also love to do a podcast with him, especially if there's so much interest in the topic
I think that what you're doing is amazing! Your body just has to adapt to this level of constant intensity. I suggest that you prioritize recovery between workouts along with nutrition, hydration and sleep because this is where you make the improvements. Pointless doing all this hard work (physically destruction) and not be equally meticulous on the rebuilding activities. Also, injury prevention is key so work closely with your physio on a weekly basis.
How are you scheduling your days specifically your speed max v days I seems to remember Mike hurst having like 3-4 days a week of conditioning depending on week essentially of either 6x200,300’s one minute rest or the 360 m hill or like a set breakdown of 400m.
I've been doing max v on Monday, 200 repeats Tuesday, speed Endurance/special endurance Thursday, regular-ish endurance Friday like 300 repeats slow with short rest or 360m hill sprints, and occasionally some extensive tempo on Saturday. Max speed could be touched in the Thursday warm up as well, and probably should be but I don't always do it
I'm really glad to hear some people are interested in this. If you want the direct source I had, it is the link I'll post here. Otherwise, I could probably make a video breaking down my understanding of the topic, depending on what would be more helpful for people forum.charliefrancis.com/t/lactate-threshold-training/18726/1646?page=90 The link is set to page 90 cause that's how far I read, you might want to go back toward page one. My understanding is that the poster by the name KitKat1 is Mike Hurst, and he drops tons of knowledge throughout the thread
I will definitely think about it. I'm a little conflicted on how to handle it but I definitely see where you're coming from. Quality first, quantity second
I don't ever set out thinking "today I'm going to try to improve stride length". With that being said, every time I do form drills, lift weights, and sprint at max speed, I am working on stride length since it is just a product of how much force you produce in certain directions. I'm not sure if that answers your question?
my unwanted opinion - youre doing too much. Your workouts are hard. 400 meter is not too hard to get in shape for compared to something like the 800. You can train like a 200m runner for the rest of your year, and it wouldn't make much of a difference if you switch for peak perforance in the 400 next year, especially at 49s level. That's why I think your body shuts down on some days. You do workouts like some pros, but many of them are juicing and their recovery is different
I'm open to opinions for sure. Thank you for the comment. I can absolutely see why you'd say that, and I've wondered about that some as well. It would make sense that professional level 400m runners might be able to handle more volume and intensity than someone like me, especially considering that their pure speed is already more than fast enough for their goals. I've gotten a lot of feedback like this, I appreciate it and I assure you I will keep it in mind and give it a lot of thought. I may end up changing up my training in the next couple of months, we will see.
Good offseason work, even if you aren't hitting the times you're currently looking for. Offseason training is always a weird period (especially when we're training solo, lol), so it's important to remember the progression is real and takes some time to occur. I sprint and jump at Manchester, so I'll be looking forward to seeing you progress this upcoming season. Hoping the current training is going well for you, boss
Thanks for the comment! Yeah man training solo is a big adjustment. I appreciate your reminder to hang on and trust the process
Looked up your times, you're pretty dang quick. What are your goals this year? Gonna get that sub 11 100m I bet
@@SimonShawk5 Hey man I appreciate it! I ran 10.80 at conference last year, but yeah technically not wind legal (+3.1). Didn't have a good start, so there's a bit more there. Goal is to go sub 10.5 this year. Sounds ambitious, but I've ran .93s recently from 30-40m, which helps back that up. Consistently running around .95-96s. Main goals are for long jump. Had some long fouls at the end of last season (7.30m+), and the technique has improved tremendously. Looking to place at nationals there. Keep up the good work!
Get ahead of the Achilles pain as soon as you can. I pushed through it for a long time and it is taking forever to return to somewhat normal. All I can recommend is load management and heavy slow calf raises. Best of luck to you!
I've been working on it basically nonstop since this video, made some good progress. I appreciate the wakeup call. Glad you've made some progress with your own problems, and I'd highly recommend throwing in some 30-45 second isos as well as very gentle extensive pogo hops on top of those slow calf raises. I've felt great benefits from all of those things combined
I do totally recognize the reasoning for doing more anaerobic work as a 400m athlete, but remember that it doesn’t always have to come in the form of shorter rest times. Your athleticism is statistically phenomenal at this point, and I personally think that focusing on longer runs(450) with full recovery might benefit you more. When you see your workout times getting so much slower like you have now, you need to dial back the volume a lot. A decrease in performance is a good sign when preparation and fitness is your goal, but you have over-exerted yourself here imo. Not much of a problem with what you are doing though because your body might just genetically prioritize aerobic expenditures, and focusing on anaerobic work might be more beneficial. 400m training is very enigmatic in this way, you have to be adaptive and switch methodologies, sometimes drastically. However, I think your speed has certainly suffered from that style of training. It certainly might not be a concern, because you just hit a 10m fly pr (congrats btw), but you have to consider possible confounding variables here. Any deload at all in terms of volume or intensity? Intensity is an especially tricky confounding variable to look out for when interpreting results, because you may feel even more tired, but actually be deloading. Any changes in sleep, stress, work/love life, nutrition, and bodyweight are all certainly variables which can have drastic effects, especially when aggregated. You’re doing amazing, but just know that Hurst’s training will certainly impact your speed, and in my opinion, isn’t optimal once you start getting a really insane level of fitness and start running some super quick times. Overall though, great stuff man. I look forward to your peaking phase for sure.
Thank you very much for the kind words. You gave me some great food for thought.
I'd love to hear more about what specifically you think is optimal. I'm feeling stuck between two worlds because I used to be very anti-slow running, and logically that argument makes a lot of sense. At the same time, I feel aerobically unfit, and I worry it will affect my recovery and performance in the long term.
I also do appreciate how slower days give you something to do in between the faster days, since of course you can't sprint maximally on multiple back to back days.
I'd love to hear loosely how you think a week should be set up, what sessions should go where, and how you believe someone can tell if they're "fit" enough aerobically to handle the volumes and intensities of 400m training and competition
@SimonShawk5 not that you asked me but you should look into Clyde Hart's approach to the 400m when he was training Baylor and the likes of Jeremy Wariner, Darold Williamson and Michael Johnson. He basically periodized them like an 800m from preseason to peak/post, but utilized top speed workouts and plyos to maintain comfort at faster paces iirc. He would even have the base training include 1 mile cross country runs on grass
Your volume doesn’t seem sufficiently targeting the 4.
1) your not demonstrating volume that stimulates the lactic system effectively - I’ve seen acceleration work, extensive tempo work and some (minimal) intensive tempo work. But training that last 200 the way you have won’t be super effective since your going to be largely fatigued aerobically rather than anaerobically. It’ll be just a large amount of free radicals but not much acidosis.
2) We should like to see MUCH more rest. 10-20mins. Pure speed work takes such a toll on the body and CNS and if you are hitting it at all in intensive tempo to train it you need to be as recovered as you can.
3) The ISO’s are cool but what are they intended for? Stiffness Conditioning? PAP for gym? Purpose is important and it doesn’t seem too clear why post-session ISO’s would be preferred over pre-. Also, I’d be targeting the Achilles much more. Dorsiflexion emphasised ISO’s or DYNAMO’s are probably more wanted wouldn’t you think?
What I found to help I always do a plyo exercise after any top end speed. Instead of iso holds.
Like I’ll do alternating bounds, then 3 continuous broad jumps, hurdle hops, and then do hurdle hops but jump from a deep squat for the accel part and saw a lot of progress
I'm adding in a lot more plyos very soon. Thanks for the suggestion!
Mike Hurst’s training is a better version of Clyde hart’s training. Clyde harts workouts were ran really slow and relied on people’s natural speed. Mike has a lot of work done at 400m pace.
For weekly/annual periodization you should look at how Boo Shexnayder sets up his training. For weekly periodization he does high-neural days and low-neural days. High days would be max V / acceleration, heavy lifting, and plyos. Low days would be tempo running, GPP circuits, maybe long duration isometrics, bodybuilding lifts, and lactic work. Lactic work is used sparingly. Low days always follow high days. Usually something like Monday + Thursday are high days, Tuesday + Friday are low days.
I'll look into coach Schexnayders stuff, thank you!
Liking the move to a more concurrent program, and Mike's a really good start for that, assuming you're using a set up that was prescribed from the Lactate forum ebook?. As for the SE1 and 2 work, id honestly say its too early to target those distances within those windows you mentioned, id do breakup runs (special endurance) to allow you to adapt to the workload required initially and then progress these out to full runs.
Yes sir it is from the lactate forum. What distances + speeds are you referring to when you say breakup runs? In my mind I've been targeting special endurance with the 200s, 300s, etc
@@SimonShawk5 ok, maybe some terminology differences here, what you refer to as "special" prob should be called "specific," that being Se1 and Se2 etc, "special" endurance is the use of shorter reps and recovery to build capacities and tolerances that support SPE / Se1 /Se2, so something like 3x80 r1 instead of a 250 as an example or 2x150 r1 instead of a 300 etc. So in this instance, the 5x200 r2 that you do although are classed generically as Intensive Endurance, is a form of Special.
Volume up + injury risk going op they are going hand in hand. Also i use ekstrem iso with aqua bag
Awesome as always! I ran a 200 around 26.25 on Thursday. I was spent but I know the low 50s are in range with some dedication
Thanks! That's great, good work! Please keep me updated, I'd love to hear how your training goes moving forward
@@SimonShawk5 I will keep you updated!
He’s back
HEY SIMON, you are 1 of a few track athletes that motivated me to start my own TH-cam channel, sharing my journey as a track athlete but i must ask, WHAT camera you use to give you such great quality?
That's amazing, good luck to you! I use the Panasonic G7, it has worked great for me for years
Could you explain a little more about Mike Hurst and where you found his resources?
Glad to hear there's interest in this. I learned a ton from this thread
forum.charliefrancis.com/t/lactate-threshold-training/18726/1646?page=90
my understanding is that KitKat1 is Mike Hurst and he leaves tons of knowledge in the thread. I read all the way to page 90, which is where the link takes you (so you'll want to navigate to page 1 most likely)
Hopefully this helps and if you'd be interested in a video diving into this I'd certainly consider it
I'd also love to do a podcast with him, especially if there's so much interest in the topic
I think that what you're doing is amazing! Your body just has to adapt to this level of constant intensity. I suggest that you prioritize recovery between workouts along with nutrition, hydration and sleep because this is where you make the improvements. Pointless doing all this hard work (physically destruction) and not be equally meticulous on the rebuilding activities. Also, injury prevention is key so work closely with your physio on a weekly basis.
Thanks a lot! I've started paying more attention to my nutrition and recovery, doing more massage, working on sleep. I appreciate your comment!
How are you scheduling your days specifically your speed max v days I seems to remember Mike hurst having like 3-4 days a week of conditioning depending on week essentially of either 6x200,300’s one minute rest or the 360 m hill or like a set breakdown of 400m.
I've been doing max v on Monday, 200 repeats Tuesday, speed Endurance/special endurance Thursday, regular-ish endurance Friday like 300 repeats slow with short rest or 360m hill sprints, and occasionally some extensive tempo on Saturday. Max speed could be touched in the Thursday warm up as well, and probably should be but I don't always do it
I’m interested in the source of Mike Hurst’s training philosophy.
I'm really glad to hear some people are interested in this. If you want the direct source I had, it is the link I'll post here. Otherwise, I could probably make a video breaking down my understanding of the topic, depending on what would be more helpful for people
forum.charliefrancis.com/t/lactate-threshold-training/18726/1646?page=90
The link is set to page 90 cause that's how far I read, you might want to go back toward page one. My understanding is that the poster by the name KitKat1 is Mike Hurst, and he drops tons of knowledge throughout the thread
Maybe you should increase your rest times to hit your goal paces then gradually lower the rest time while still maintaining that pace.
I will definitely think about it. I'm a little conflicted on how to handle it but I definitely see where you're coming from. Quality first, quantity second
Do you work on your stride length?
I don't ever set out thinking "today I'm going to try to improve stride length". With that being said, every time I do form drills, lift weights, and sprint at max speed, I am working on stride length since it is just a product of how much force you produce in certain directions. I'm not sure if that answers your question?
@@SimonShawk5 it does
Don’t you run for a college? Do y’all not have scheduled practice?
I graduated in the spring so I'm on my own now
@@SimonShawk5 makes sense. Goodluck
my unwanted opinion - youre doing too much. Your workouts are hard. 400 meter is not too hard to get in shape for compared to something like the 800. You can train like a 200m runner for the rest of your year, and it wouldn't make much of a difference if you switch for peak perforance in the 400 next year, especially at 49s level. That's why I think your body shuts down on some days. You do workouts like some pros, but many of them are juicing and their recovery is different
I'm open to opinions for sure. Thank you for the comment. I can absolutely see why you'd say that, and I've wondered about that some as well. It would make sense that professional level 400m runners might be able to handle more volume and intensity than someone like me, especially considering that their pure speed is already more than fast enough for their goals. I've gotten a lot of feedback like this, I appreciate it and I assure you I will keep it in mind and give it a lot of thought. I may end up changing up my training in the next couple of months, we will see.