Thank you for msking this video. I travelled on a 197 from Llandudno Junction to Llandudno yesterday. I was sittinv behind the driver's cab. The bogie rattling was so bad at one stage, it sounded like a derailment. The 175s and even the 153 railcars are much quieter. After we arrived at Llandudno, I mentioned the severe rattling to the driver, so that he was aware of passenger reaction. There must be a serious dedign shortcoming eith these trains. I don't know whether the very similar 196s between Shrewsbury and Birmingham have the same problem. Re the background music, I ddon't think the video should be 'entertaining'. It is informative, and the background, ahem, 'music' is very irritating. The broadcasters do this all the time. They try to be 'arty farty', and all it does is irritate people. As a retired broadcast engineer, if you are listening to noise (rattle in the case of the 197s), how can you judge how bad it is with dum-dum-dum mixed in with it?
Tried to balance keeping it reasonably entertaining and whilst having clips with no speaking over them. I think you can still hear everything, the volume of the onboard noise was set well above the background music.
I travelled on a heavily loaded Class 197 from Chester to Wrexham last November (2023). I was sitting over the bogie and I was quite alarmed at one stage, when speed was probably above 70mph, of the rattling noise that was taking place. Also, the ride seemed very hard, almost as if the suspension was flat. The engine nose was also quite high. They are certainly not as good as the Stadler FLIRT units operating on the Rhymney line, but the comparison is a bit unfair as speeds are much lower on the valley lines. I think the saying that 'you get what you pay for' is at work here.
I find it really hard to ignore the rattle. I had hoped it would settle down, but riding cl195s and cl331s which are the same design and they're just as noisy.
Yet another fantastic Vlog Rail Focus the TFW 197s are definitely nice trains and it’s good to see them on a second route already between Chester and Wales as well as the other line you covered in your 197 review I continue to enjoy watching your Vlogs carry on being awesome keep up the good work take care and stay safe
I'm a regular passenger on the North Wales Coast Line . I do no t think they a anything like as good as the 175 which is probably the best of all the new generation DMUs .
Ride quality is astonishingly poor for a brand new train, especially seated over bogie, as experienced on Chester-Lime St run. 195s and 196s just as bad in my experience. Passenger ambience inferior to what they're replacing in my opinion (158/175 with their enclosed saloons at least). Very few tables and many seats not lining up with windows giving poor or non-existent view. No door separating saloon from internal corridor connections so extra draughts and noise. Also heating not particularly effective. Progress? Not! Bring on more 67s/Mk4s.....
Nowhere near as smooth riding as the 175s - the bogies seem to be weak on these 197s. The centre doors could well be hazardous at curved platformed stations like Earlestown, and platform 13 at Manchester Piccadilly as examples. A twelve mile journey from Colwyn Bay to Rhyl is quite sufficient for me!
Looks quite a good train, and your first seat had an excellent window view- very rare these days, but may I suggest not adding music sound tracks. It was difficult to discern the noises that you were actually trying to demonstrate in the video.
I was on a 197 yesterday for the first time going from Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Airport 197011 it was and I was sat at the end of the carriage where the bogies are and it was a bit bumpy and noisey but other than that those train's are mint 😀
CAF could manufacture more new Civity DMUs including for Great Western Railway, ScotRail and South Western Railway. The Class 197 are very nice. Same with the West Midlands Railway Class 196.
There good trains, modern, clean and fresh! But what baffles me the most about TFW is them getting rid of the class 175 trains, they were refurbished only 1 year ago so why get rid of a newly refurbished fleet?
@@Rail_Focus I know what you mean, the knocking sound is abit annoying and I don’t wear headphones on trains so I will definitely be able to hear it (I don’t have any experience as I’ve never actually been On a TFW train)
They are not as bad as what we have still to be replaced on Wales and Borders metals in the present condition, although suspension and interior noise from structural build are the lows of the new CAF fleet since Northern Trains intrroduced them. My personal oppinion based in a series of Journeys made here in the Northwest including on TFW new units. Thank you for sharing the informative video and your poin of view.
Considering TfW still regularly put 150s and 153s on long distance service the 197s will be a big improvement. It'd be good just to have 1 unified fleet, not a mismatch of what ever units TfW has Ava that day.
@@Rail_Focus totally agree as one the afternoon services Holyhead to Cardiff Ctl very often is operated with a couple of the infamous class 153 formations and is one of such loco-hauled recently upgraded services, although i understand in an initial phase there still not enough M4 sets to all services and TFW with exception of the Premium can not guarantee such availablility, for now. At least passengers have a train compared to last minute cancelations across the network for several reasons we all (or a majority) know.But obviously still quite frustrating hourly services on such main routes to the welsh capital are operated with as much as 2 cars very often leading to overcorowding with no need. At least 153s as single cars they became with the exception of West Yoks 155s, can match that lack of coaches on class 158s and Turbostars that i think still operating South Wales cascaded from Anglia.
@@Rail_Focus East Midlands Trains Regional shares equal operational challanges on Norwich to Liverpool services, perhaps the longest regional route of the TOC. Not sure if loco halued formations would ease some of this problem or be the same as i remember to watch First Great Western HSTs jam packed on peak hours years ago on tv.
After a long wait it seems they're being introduced really quickly, I think they've only just started driver training between Manchester and South Wales, but it won't be long until they're operating on that route.
I’ll be honest. TfW should have just ordered a bazillion Stadler Flirt Bi-mode trains. This means that when electrification comes the bi-mode engine carriage can simply be removed. They would also provide level boarding. However these trains are probably the most expensive trains in the UK to build.
I was on one for the first time last night from Crewe to Shrewsbury and the ride is diabolical. Say what you like this is a huge downgrade and typical of the UK rail industry accepting something that is clearly not right or failing to convey the specification correctly. It was similar to one I was on from Hebden Bridge to Manchester a few years ago. It feels like the type of ride that you'd expect in a freight car as in the vibration and reaction to changing track profiles is conveyed to the passenger environment as though there were a missing or poorly adjusted suspension component.
At least this new class 197 units are showing that pacers units were not the solo poor riding title owners on rough track condition. We are in the 21st century operating "Ferraris" on "Victorian roads", thus is not that fair demanding so much to rolling stock projected to an era far more modern for the railway infrastructure like Britain's rail network proudly still maintain.
Will the various new trains be replacing all the older ones on tfw and increasing capacity? or do the capacity improvements you talk about require keeping some 175.170'? either way it seem tfw will end up with quite a modern fleet by Uk standards.
All of the Class 150s, 158s and 175s will be going. But even so I'm fairly sure South Wales metro will see services increased to every 15 minutes on the Core Valleys lines, with the new Flirts and tram-trains. The Heart of Wales line will have to make do with Class 153s for the foreseeable future, but even they're being lengthening, with Class 153s being retro fitted to act as bike storage carriages. The only big question is over the Class 230s, that were supposed to allow TfW to increase the service on the Wrexham-Bidston line to half hourly.
There’s some extremely varied speculation on where the 175s are going, mostly around GWR, Chiltern, or Northern. The 158s I think will most likely go to either GWR or Northern.
They look like nice trains to me. It’s been a long time since I’ve been on a train in wales and these seem a step up… but, could some of the ride issues be coming from the lack of any padding at all in the seats - similar to many new rolling stock, the seats seem to be less and less comfortable!
The seats actually aren't too bad imo. But there definitely seems to be a damping issue with the Civity units, apart from the Class 397s which seem to ride a lot better
I think generally alot of more modern traction rattle a bit. 700s do a bit at high speed . This is paobably due to stiffer suspension as the bodies are alot lighter and probably less likely to destroy the damper. Apparently the dampers broke on the 195s because they were bolted directly to the body. Tbh i like motors so when the motors are making sound its nkt a problem for me
Most passengers probably wouldn't notice the knocking and it's not really a big issue tbh. I think I personally find it more irritating as I notice it and then can't ignore it, but the simple remedy if others find it annoying is to sit towards the middle of the carriage.
Thanks for uploading, in fairness, the ride quality isn’t perfect, but it’s better than I gave them credit for. I do have a few gripes with these units that, from a passenger point of view, make them inferior to the stock they’re replacing, in my opinion. But they’re not too bad overall
CAF coach build structure has a long history of such knocking sound and bump ride among defective welding issues dating from the 90s in Portugal Railways with double decker Alstom Units class 3500s for Lisbon commuter services and class 332/333 in Britain though. TFL nor Southern operators had choice for CAF orders perhaps due to concernes regarding to its bad reputation if serving such an important area surrounding London. Bombardier Derby trains are among my favorite trains along Siemens DESIRO. Do not understand how CAF tram ride quality became evolutive for new generation trains when they do not deliver completely what the future rail travel means. Unless is just a matter of light weight and low consumption sadly resulting in that final product.
Look like good trains, as long as TFW do run them in multiple, especially on the marches line. Otherwise they are inadequate in terms of capacity. Yes I know they have promised to, however they also have plans to oncrease frequency on other routes which will limit their ability to achieve this
Hopefully this will be somewhat offset by an increased frequency, particularly on the N Wales Coast, with the introduction of the Liverpool - Llandudno service, but I'd still hope to see 4 car sets operated to Manchester
@@Rail_Focus agree for the north Wales line, hopefully those services will help. You are correct about the Manchester - South Wales services they need to be a minimum of 4 cars with these new units. A three car 175 was usually sufficient, however they were often quite full, and they had more seats than their replacements.
Manchester - South Wales will eventually be 5 cars, 3 car cl197 with 1st class and a 2 car cl197, or 5 car Mk4 loco hauled set. Would be nice to see 4 car sets operating between Manchester and Chester as those services can get very busy.
@@Rail_Focus I have heard that the are hoping for 5 car sets, annoyingly I don't think they are planning to run the mark 4 services past Cardiff, which is a shame. Am hoping for the 5 car services, but with the increased services they are planning on Liverpool - Llandudno, extra services from CDF to Cheltenham and Bristol (Hoping to up these to 2/3 per hour) I'm not sure they will achieve 5 cars on the marches with consistency. Perhaps I am a bit glass half empty
Very disappointing ride the 197 units, just as bad as the 195. Surprised that they would be accepted with such poor ride. Surely the contract for the builder must have had conditions around the ride quality
I'm sure if the ride quality is factored into the contract. Someone from TfW probably rode a Class 195 briefly on continuously welded rail and thought, that'll do.
Just wondering what type of rolling stock will replace express Long Distance introduced loco-hauled sets on Manchester to South Wales routes not even mention the classic Premium Servico Cardiff-Holyhead, this one ever since offering First Class coache thah now has been added, ???or reinstated post-privatization?? and is no sight of rolling stock with First class seating. Unless TFW will reconfigurate CAF and Stadler fleets as such.
Loco hailed Mk4 sets will be lengthened to 5 carriages. Plus there are 16, 3 car Class 197s with 1st class, they will be coupled to a 2 car unit, so all Manchester South Wales trains will be 5 car with 1st class accomodation.
These trains are by far the worst I’ve been on. Thought I’d give my car a break and take the train down to Cardiff for new years celebrations. What a load of junk! All the toilets are broken. The ride quality is horrendous. Please bring back the old stock….
@@Rail_Focus Indeed, I travelled on one for the first time yesterday and the driver seemed to be struggling to accelerate without spinning the wheels? Unless I’m mistaken and they have some sort of new hi-tech hydraulic transmission.
@@Rail_Focus It won't have a mechanical transmission. This seemed different to what you describe too as it sounded like it may be changing gear at a variety of speeds.
You've got to ask how corrupt this government is to still be buying stock from caf? it's terrible build and ride quality and expensive too. Love to know how much tory donors have earnt while these terrible trains push more people into cars and youth desperate to earn driving licenses instead of paying ridiculous prices to sit in a cold and awful seat (195)
Thumbs down for the musical overlay on a video about listening to train noise. I think your assessment is way off. Passengers should expect train travel to be smooth and comfortable. You say it’s an ok ride when travelling on a main line particularly if occupying a seat away from the bogies. But half of the seats on these trains are over bogies. And Wales has few main lines. These trains have yet to be introduced to the Cambrian lines, but I’ve ridden them several times now from Shrewsbury to Hereford, to Crewe and Manchester, and to Ruabon. The ride is appalling - anyone with back pain issues will find them intolerable. It’s as though the wheels aren’t round, but have 16 or 24 sides. The rattling is an annoyance - the ride will put me off travelling in these trains (and I’ve found mid carriage little different from end of carriage). What a shame and waste of money to order bright new trains that can’t provide the most basic functionality on the lines they’ll mostly be running over.
All caf civity trains are bad. Northern have awful fainsa ironing board seats. Tfw still bad fainsa sophia seats. Horrible zf ecolife gearboxes on all diesel versions. Voith made better gearboxes. Northern electric versions have rather mute traction motors at times and none are enjoyable to ride.
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Thank you for msking this video. I travelled on a 197 from Llandudno Junction to Llandudno yesterday. I was sittinv behind the driver's cab. The bogie rattling was so bad at one stage, it sounded like a derailment. The 175s and even the 153 railcars are much quieter. After we arrived at Llandudno, I mentioned the severe rattling to the driver, so that he was aware of passenger reaction. There must be a serious dedign shortcoming eith these trains. I don't know whether the very similar 196s between Shrewsbury and Birmingham have the same problem.
Re the background music, I ddon't think the video should be 'entertaining'. It is informative, and the background, ahem, 'music' is very irritating. The broadcasters do this all the time. They try to be 'arty farty', and all it does is irritate people. As a retired broadcast engineer, if you are listening to noise (rattle in the case of the 197s), how can you judge how bad it is with dum-dum-dum mixed in with it?
Don't think its that good an idea to play music when trying to demonstrate line noise, it's bad enough with interminable announcements on TfW
Tried to balance keeping it reasonably entertaining and whilst having clips with no speaking over them. I think you can still hear everything, the volume of the onboard noise was set well above the background music.
I travelled on a heavily loaded Class 197 from Chester to Wrexham last November (2023). I was sitting over the bogie and I was quite alarmed at one stage, when speed was probably above 70mph, of the rattling noise that was taking place. Also, the ride seemed very hard, almost as if the suspension was flat. The engine nose was also quite high. They are certainly not as good as the Stadler FLIRT units operating on the Rhymney line, but the comparison is a bit unfair as speeds are much lower on the valley lines. I think the saying that 'you get what you pay for' is at work here.
I find it really hard to ignore the rattle. I had hoped it would settle down, but riding cl195s and cl331s which are the same design and they're just as noisy.
Yet another fantastic Vlog Rail Focus the TFW 197s are definitely nice trains and it’s good to see them on a second route already between Chester and Wales as well as the other line you covered in your 197 review I continue to enjoy watching your Vlogs carry on being awesome keep up the good work take care and stay safe
Thank you so much, I'm glad you're enjoying them ☺️
@@Rail_Focus your welcome
I agree, totally, why play music with a rhythm similar to the noise you are trying to demonstrate?
I'm a regular passenger on the North Wales Coast Line . I do no t think they a anything like as good as the 175 which is probably the best of all the new generation DMUs .
Ride quality is astonishingly poor for a brand new train, especially seated over bogie, as experienced on Chester-Lime St run. 195s and 196s just as bad in my experience. Passenger ambience inferior to what they're replacing in my opinion (158/175 with their enclosed saloons at least). Very few tables and many seats not lining up with windows giving poor or non-existent view. No door separating saloon from internal corridor connections so extra draughts and noise. Also heating not particularly effective. Progress? Not! Bring on more 67s/Mk4s.....
Nowhere near as smooth riding as the 175s - the bogies seem to be weak on these 197s. The centre doors could well be hazardous at curved platformed stations like Earlestown, and platform 13 at Manchester Piccadilly as examples. A twelve mile journey from Colwyn Bay to Rhyl is quite sufficient for me!
Why background music over the part of the video when we’re trying to listen to the knocking sound?
Thought it would flow a bit better.
Looks quite a good train, and your first seat had an excellent window view- very rare these days, but may I suggest not adding music sound tracks. It was difficult to discern the noises that you were actually trying to demonstrate in the video.
I was on a 197 yesterday for the first time going from Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Airport 197011 it was and I was sat at the end of the carriage where the bogies are and it was a bit bumpy and noisey but other than that those train's are mint 😀
It is a shame about the ride, but other than that I think they're good units, will definitely help improve Wales and Border services
CAF could manufacture more new Civity DMUs including for Great Western Railway, ScotRail and South Western Railway. The Class 197 are very nice. Same with the West Midlands Railway Class 196.
Still a lot of old DMUs out there that desperately need replacing and whilst the CAF units aren't perfect they're certainly better than 150s
True
Quite surprised that the bogey knocking sound is so musical. 😃
🤣
There good trains, modern, clean and fresh! But what baffles me the most about TFW is them getting rid of the class 175 trains, they were refurbished only 1 year ago so why get rid of a newly refurbished fleet?
I don't mind them tbh, but I can't unhear the knocking sound that comes from the bogies
@@Rail_Focus I know what you mean, the knocking sound is abit annoying and I don’t wear headphones on trains so I will definitely be able to hear it (I don’t have any experience as I’ve never actually been On a TFW train)
They are not as bad as what we have still to be replaced on Wales and Borders metals in the present condition, although suspension and interior noise from structural build are the lows of the new CAF fleet since Northern Trains intrroduced them. My personal oppinion based in a series of Journeys made here in the Northwest including on TFW new units. Thank you for sharing the informative video and your poin of view.
Considering TfW still regularly put 150s and 153s on long distance service the 197s will be a big improvement. It'd be good just to have 1 unified fleet, not a mismatch of what ever units TfW has Ava that day.
@@Rail_Focus totally agree as one the afternoon services Holyhead to Cardiff Ctl very often is operated with a couple of the infamous class 153 formations and is one of such loco-hauled recently upgraded services, although i understand in an initial phase there still not enough M4 sets to all services and TFW with exception of the Premium can not guarantee such availablility, for now. At least passengers have a train compared to last minute cancelations across the network for several reasons we all (or a majority) know.But obviously still quite frustrating hourly services on such main routes to the welsh capital are operated with as much as 2 cars very often leading to overcorowding with no need. At least 153s as single cars they became with the exception of West Yoks 155s, can match that lack of coaches on class 158s and Turbostars that i think still operating South Wales cascaded from Anglia.
@@Rail_Focus East Midlands Trains Regional shares equal operational challanges on Norwich to Liverpool services, perhaps the longest regional route of the TOC. Not sure if loco halued formations would ease some of this problem or be the same as i remember to watch First Great Western HSTs jam packed on peak hours years ago on tv.
@@butikimbo9595 loco hauled services simply aren’t suited to the way EMR operate the Liverpool-Norwich route.
I've only seen one Class 197 so far. They are already on the South Wales Mainline! Just they don't appear very often and are normally just a 175
After a long wait it seems they're being introduced really quickly, I think they've only just started driver training between Manchester and South Wales, but it won't be long until they're operating on that route.
The bogies are very weak, but those pesky loud automated announcements are a menace, and have put me off travelling, full stop!
The issues what's been with these blasted units on the North Wales coast line, I should think that they'd be better off scrapped!
I think the reliability is starting to improve. Always seems to come down to dodgy software these days.
I’ll be honest.
TfW should have just ordered a bazillion Stadler Flirt Bi-mode trains.
This means that when electrification comes the bi-mode engine carriage can simply be removed.
They would also provide level boarding.
However these trains are probably the most expensive trains in the UK to build.
I was on one for the first time last night from Crewe to Shrewsbury and the ride is diabolical. Say what you like this is a huge downgrade and typical of the UK rail industry accepting something that is clearly not right or failing to convey the specification correctly. It was similar to one I was on from Hebden Bridge to Manchester a few years ago. It feels like the type of ride that you'd expect in a freight car as in the vibration and reaction to changing track profiles is conveyed to the passenger environment as though there were a missing or poorly adjusted suspension component.
At least this new class 197 units are showing that pacers units were not the solo poor riding title owners on rough track condition. We are in the 21st century operating "Ferraris" on "Victorian roads", thus is not that fair demanding so much to rolling stock projected to an era far more modern for the railway infrastructure like Britain's rail network proudly still maintain.
Apologies for my typos. I have an MS variant and hand and fingers are very shaky
Will the various new trains be replacing all the older ones on tfw and increasing capacity? or do the capacity improvements you talk about require keeping some 175.170'? either way it seem tfw will end up with quite a modern fleet by Uk standards.
All of the Class 150s, 158s and 175s will be going. But even so I'm fairly sure South Wales metro will see services increased to every 15 minutes on the Core Valleys lines, with the new Flirts and tram-trains.
The Heart of Wales line will have to make do with Class 153s for the foreseeable future, but even they're being lengthening, with Class 153s being retro fitted to act as bike storage carriages.
The only big question is over the Class 230s, that were supposed to allow TfW to increase the service on the Wrexham-Bidston line to half hourly.
@@Rail_Focus thanks! I wonder where the 158s and 175s will end up.
@@Blackburnian737 rumour 175 could go to GWR, 158s could possibly go to Northern. There's still a need for DMUs so they will probably find a home
There’s some extremely varied speculation on where the 175s are going, mostly around GWR, Chiltern, or Northern. The 158s I think will most likely go to either GWR or Northern.
@@andrewreynolds4949 Northern could certainly use them- they were using 156's for local services on the tyne valley line in 2021 when I was there.
They look like nice trains to me. It’s been a long time since I’ve been on a train in wales and these seem a step up… but, could some of the ride issues be coming from the lack of any padding at all in the seats - similar to many new rolling stock, the seats seem to be less and less comfortable!
The seats actually aren't too bad imo. But there definitely seems to be a damping issue with the Civity units, apart from the Class 397s which seem to ride a lot better
they look disgusting
I think generally alot of more modern traction rattle a bit. 700s do a bit at high speed . This is paobably due to stiffer suspension as the bodies are alot lighter and probably less likely to destroy the damper. Apparently the dampers broke on the 195s because they were bolted directly to the body. Tbh i like motors so when the motors are making sound its nkt a problem for me
Most passengers probably wouldn't notice the knocking and it's not really a big issue tbh. I think I personally find it more irritating as I notice it and then can't ignore it, but the simple remedy if others find it annoying is to sit towards the middle of the carriage.
Thanks for uploading, in fairness, the ride quality isn’t perfect, but it’s better than I gave them credit for. I do have a few gripes with these units that, from a passenger point of view, make them inferior to the stock they’re replacing, in my opinion. But they’re not too bad overall
No problem 🙂. I wanted to try and give a balanced view. Not perfect, but should benefit passengers overall 🤞
CAF coach build structure has a long history of such knocking sound and bump ride among defective welding issues dating from the 90s in Portugal Railways with double decker Alstom Units class 3500s for Lisbon commuter services and class 332/333 in Britain though. TFL nor Southern operators had choice for CAF orders perhaps due to concernes regarding to its bad reputation if serving such an important area surrounding London. Bombardier Derby trains are among my favorite trains along Siemens DESIRO. Do not understand how CAF tram ride quality became evolutive for new generation trains when they do not deliver completely what the future rail travel means. Unless is just a matter of light weight and low consumption sadly resulting in that final product.
Look like good trains, as long as TFW do run them in multiple, especially on the marches line. Otherwise they are inadequate in terms of capacity. Yes I know they have promised to, however they also have plans to oncrease frequency on other routes which will limit their ability to achieve this
Hopefully this will be somewhat offset by an increased frequency, particularly on the N Wales Coast, with the introduction of the Liverpool - Llandudno service, but I'd still hope to see 4 car sets operated to Manchester
@@Rail_Focus agree for the north Wales line, hopefully those services will help. You are correct about the Manchester - South Wales services they need to be a minimum of 4 cars with these new units. A three car 175 was usually sufficient, however they were often quite full, and they had more seats than their replacements.
Manchester - South Wales will eventually be 5 cars, 3 car cl197 with 1st class and a 2 car cl197, or 5 car Mk4 loco hauled set. Would be nice to see 4 car sets operating between Manchester and Chester as those services can get very busy.
@@Rail_Focus I have heard that the are hoping for 5 car sets, annoyingly I don't think they are planning to run the mark 4 services past Cardiff, which is a shame. Am hoping for the 5 car services, but with the increased services they are planning on Liverpool - Llandudno, extra services from CDF to Cheltenham and Bristol (Hoping to up these to 2/3 per hour) I'm not sure they will achieve 5 cars on the marches with consistency. Perhaps I am a bit glass half empty
Very disappointing ride the 197 units, just as bad as the 195. Surprised that they would be accepted with such poor ride. Surely the contract for the builder must have had conditions around the ride quality
I'm sure if the ride quality is factored into the contract. Someone from TfW probably rode a Class 195 briefly on continuously welded rail and thought, that'll do.
Just wondering what type of rolling stock will replace express Long Distance introduced loco-hauled sets on Manchester to South Wales routes not even mention the classic Premium Servico Cardiff-Holyhead, this one ever since offering First Class coache thah now has been added, ???or reinstated post-privatization?? and is no sight of rolling stock with First class seating. Unless TFW will reconfigurate CAF and Stadler fleets as such.
Loco hailed Mk4 sets will be lengthened to 5 carriages. Plus there are 16, 3 car Class 197s with 1st class, they will be coupled to a 2 car unit, so all Manchester South Wales trains will be 5 car with 1st class accomodation.
I can hear music as well. Is that intentional? (I'm not a fan of background muzak).
Yeah, stylistic choice, which wasn't wise in hindsight.
I've never been on a 197 myself yet, but from what I've seen, they appear to be reasonably good trains, but not perfect
I'd agree with that
Was the toilet area in service? I ve had rides on both 195s and 197s where it was locked out of use.
It was at the time, but the single toilet is a bit of a worry.
Very weak bogies on these units, and not as beefy as the 175s. The cabs are very ugly in design, too!
These trains are by far the worst I’ve been on.
Thought I’d give my car a break and take the train down to Cardiff for new years celebrations.
What a load of junk! All the toilets are broken. The ride quality is horrendous.
Please bring back the old stock….
Damning indictment indeed 🙁
They seem to suffer from a lot of wheel spin.
Not good 😬
@@Rail_Focus Indeed, I travelled on one for the first time yesterday and the driver seemed to be struggling to accelerate without spinning the wheels? Unless I’m mistaken and they have some sort of new hi-tech hydraulic transmission.
Ah yeah, it has a fluid clutch, I believe it disengages once the unit is up to 10 or 15mph, then the mechanical transmission kicks in.
@@Rail_Focus It won't have a mechanical transmission. This seemed different to what you describe too as it sounded like it may be changing gear at a variety of speeds.
@@TrenyCwm they have ZF ecolife 6 speed automatic transmissions.
You've got to ask how corrupt this government is to still be buying stock from caf? it's terrible build and ride quality and expensive too. Love to know how much tory donors have earnt while these terrible trains push more people into cars and youth desperate to earn driving licenses instead of paying ridiculous prices to sit in a cold and awful seat (195)
The trains were ordered by KeolisAmey on behalf of the Welsh Government
Thumbs down for the musical overlay on a video about listening to train noise.
I think your assessment is way off. Passengers should expect train travel to be smooth and comfortable. You say it’s an ok ride when travelling on a main line particularly if occupying a seat away from the bogies. But half of the seats on these trains are over bogies. And Wales has few main lines. These trains have yet to be introduced to the Cambrian lines, but I’ve ridden them several times now from Shrewsbury to Hereford, to Crewe and Manchester, and to Ruabon. The ride is appalling - anyone with back pain issues will find them intolerable. It’s as though the wheels aren’t round, but have 16 or 24 sides. The rattling is an annoyance - the ride will put me off travelling in these trains (and I’ve found mid carriage little different from end of carriage). What a shame and waste of money to order bright new trains that can’t provide the most basic functionality on the lines they’ll mostly be running over.
Fair enough
All caf civity trains are bad. Northern have awful fainsa ironing board seats. Tfw still bad fainsa sophia seats. Horrible zf ecolife gearboxes on all diesel versions. Voith made better gearboxes. Northern electric versions have rather mute traction motors at times and none are enjoyable to ride.
I think the cl397s seem to be okay