love dessie,has anyone seen a better jumper,never touched a fence.till the day I die he will always be my favourite nothing better than a flying grey,rip dessie
Loved watching this again. What a champ he was. The ultimate test of a steeplechaser is the ability to carry weight. Those wins in the Gainsborough and the Victor chandler are unbelievable. He carried 22lb more than Panto Prince over 2m to win by a short head. Love him, Fearless warrior who took them all on!!
Their is no words to describe this horse I never saw him of the bridle, ears always pricked it was as though he was always kidding his rivals , he knew that his jumping ability would always stretch his opponents a one off. A unique specimen and thank goodness I was around to witness him and to see a genius at work
Kauto retired because he was injured, not because of his "feeble efforts". The jockey said himself that he felt the horse's back pulled (or something), so he pulled him up. All in all, Desert Orchid and Kauto Star are different horses, there's no point in comparing. At all. They are both great horses and time have changed since Dessie was running. Horses have developed differently due to selective breeding. Personally. I think they are of equal level as they're both remarkable in their own way.
Might Desert Orchid. Even at 12yrs he was conceding huge lumps over 2miles to the best around (occupied 1-2-3 in that years Champion Chase) yet not disgraced beat 6l in 4th. His final win saw him concede 15lb to a horse that beat Carvills Hill at level weights & then won an Irish grade one by a distance. That is how good Des was. The best chaser since Arkle & Flying Bolt. Weight carriers repsresent TRUE CHAMPS...Halloween, Arkle, Flying Bolt & Desert Orchid.
@jonnybeeston When as Kauto ever conceeded 2 stone and won? Never and never will do. Not in the same league as Dessie. The best I've seen in my lifetime...
@mallafets I think you are right I'm a big big fan of Kauto but when Dessie got upsides over fences out the country he could take the race out of his opponents long before the winning post.
King Dessie was hard as nails. Kauto has been brilliant but he is a fragile soul. Take nothing away from KS but Des was a different type of animal...it would be like Tyson vs Ali. Intriguing......
Kauto was smashed by a "no hoper" at Haydock! Kauto only had half the miles on the clock as Dessie did & Elsworth didn't "hand pick" his races. He faced all comers. Kauto wouldn't have even got around in the year Dessie won the Gold Cup you silly fool!
You still havent answered the big question, how many times has he won in the big races and given weight away ie Arkle and Dessie. Never. That is the standard at which you are remembered, not ratings. Arkle was measured on his weight carrying achievments, kauto not even in same league my friend.
When it comes to weight carrying, Dessie is in a different league to Kauto my friend, Dessie beat all around him giving lumps of weight away, Kauto could never achieve this feat, thats why Dessie is the real king of jumps racing........
Kauto won one appalling Gold Cup & another in very slow time as Denman was sick. Remember, Kauto was getting hammered by Snoopy Loopy at levels (PMSL!!!) at Haydock prior tipping up at last when under pressure in 4th. Yahoo was a grade one winner & high class horse whilst Nortons Coin was a Cheltenham specialist & also top class beating Waterloo Boy over 20f. Dessie beat NC 40l in the KG showing how inferior he was going left handed. You frankly have not got a clue!!
The only reason Kauto never lost many races is because he was selected for races off level weights, never rich handicapps like Dessie because they knew he could never give 2 stone or more away like Dessie did and win, ie victor chandler, racing post chase and even won an Irish grand National giving 2 stone or more, when did you see Kauto in a national...? Because he couldnt give that much weight away, thats why Dessie was loved by so many, because of his iron and never say die, 1989 gold cup..
but i do ask this question as a great horse why has not any film director picked up the reins and made a film of it...i think the racing public would flock to the cinemas to see it
Same reason there's never been a film made of the greatest of them all - Arkle. Each of them was so instantly recognisable even by the general public. Best leave their stories to be told in the footage we have of them on and of the course.
who has been voted the greatest jumper of all time and greatest front runner jumper ever by racing post readers .....? yes u guest it .....Desert Orchid... and the greatest ever race.....1989 gold cup by racing post readers..... story ends here my very little friend......
denman is probably the only horse near in terms of weight carrying but even then dessie is unrivalled, kauto may have been a kempton specialist and both have won tingle creeks but i would probably say kauto would have beaten dessie over 2 miles but dessie would have won over 3 miles just by galloping him into the ground.
While Kauto was a great horse he couldnt beat Dessie. Imagine Kauto trying to run and jump 3 or 4 out with Dessie, he would be demoralised. Dessie would take a length out the field ever jump. Was still winning at age of 11. Give 2 stone away at times and won with lbs to spare. Won the Gold cup 2 weeks after winning a race.
Just because he was voted best jumper of all time doesn't count for a thing people loved him because he was grey and fairly good ,to be the best you can not lose more racers than you win kauto has run the fatest time ever in the king George and holds it by winning By a record distance a massive 37 lengths ,kauto is up with arkle and mill house ,dessie is just below !!!
Kauto star is the highest rated chaser since arkle it's a fact !!!!this horse holds more records than dessie ever will !!! I knw which horse I'd rather own king kauto lights up kempton can he be the king of kings 5 kings for kauto
the only reason Kauto was rated higher is cause Dessie couldnt go on a left handed track, everyone knows that, if he could he would of won 4 gold cups. Kauto couldnt run in big handycaps and give lumps of weight away like dessie, Dessert Orchid is the only horse since Arkle to repeatedly and successfully concede weight to his rivals at the highest level, and you look at the opposition he faced, Wayward lad, Forgive and forget, Dawn run. Enough said......
No your the MUG, Kauto has won only off level weights, Dessert Orchid is the only horse since Arkle to continuely beat horses at the highest level giving 2 stone or more. Won Irish grand national carrying nearly 13 stone. Kauto could never give that weight away, hed never get his feet off the ground.
more grade 1 races , more gold cups, more king georges, more prize money , the highest rated chaser at 2 ,2 half ,3 and 3miles 2 ,holds track records at haydock and kempton ,the only horse to win grade1 races in 7 straight years and beat the youngest gold cup winner since mill house twice at the age of nearly 12 and smashing the haydock track record by 10 seconds ,the list is endless my friend dessie 187 .....kauto 193 FACT .......
Go read paul nicholls book, he explains why kauto never ran in big handicapps is because he could never match dessies achievements giving all that weight away, and as for course records, their there to be broken, dessie was never that type of horse, he out jumped and ran his rivals into the ground, go read top class chasers of all time, Dessie and Arlkle are the only two horses ever to give so much weight away and still hammer their rivals, what happen to the mighty Kauto in last years race?????
Dessie beat the mud lovin yahoo on ground he hated and overhauled him after he was headed, Kauto gave weight away twice, once giving a couple of feathers away and then well hammered by monets garden who needed a zimmer frame to get round. Dessies weight carrying performances acheivments are only second to Arkle. Go google it if you dont believe me.
Enough with the useless rivalry. It's impossible to compare horses from different times. Selective breeding has caused the racehorse to develop much differently to what they used to be. Kauto Star and Desert Orchid are both amazing and completely breathtaking in their own rights. I love them both and its a shame that we didn't get a chance to see more of them - but that's how life is. Just respect the horses for what they did - not what they didn't. Silly comparing isn't doing anyone any favors.
kauto star gave his stablemate 9 lb and a 21 lenth beating so ur theory is wrong ! kauto star beat nacarat 42 lenths in the 09 king george and nacarat run in the feb 2010 racing post chase giving a stone to the other horses and just failed by a short head so you are telling me nacarat could give a stone to otherts horses but kauto couldnt when he thrashed nacarat out of sight ,im not knocking dessie i loved the horse but the fact is he is not and never will be in kautos league
Talk is cheap though. KAuto tried conceding weight twice. He struggled to beat regressive handicapper (received just ten pound) by short head & was stuffed by veteran Monets Garden. Kauto would have been beaten at levels by Snoopy Loopy if he had not unseated at the last! Nortons would have eaten Snoopy Loopy for breakfast ya mug! Des different class!
take nothing away from dessie great horse but to say he would of beaten kauto star i dnt think he would have ! kauto holds the track record at kempton and won by a massive 36 lenths which no other horse has ever done and lets not forget napsarla thrashed dessie by a massive 16 odd lenths with no excuses in my opinion kauto would of beat dessie !!!
your the mug !!!!! KING KAUTO THE HIGHEST RATED CHASER SINCE ARKLE !!!! AND JUST REMEMBER THEY COULDNT MEASURE HOW FAR HE WINS BY .............A DISTANCE HA HA HA
Kauto star didn't lose many races because he is one of a kind up there with arkle ,I loved dessie but in my opinion not as good as kauto and arkle kauto broke the haddock track record by 10 seconds at the age of 11 beating the 6 yr old gold cup winner in the process how ,many track record does dessie hold ..... None !!!
Paul Nichols stated that kauto star could of won the Hennessy with top weight if he was to run but why would he run in a grade 3 race when you can win grade a top class grade 1 race !kauto has won more gold cups ,more king George's , more tingle creeks more prize money ,more grade 1 races is higher rated than desert orchid ,wins both ways on a racing circuit ,the list is endless dessie not in the class and was beaten by norton coins in the gold cup a 100 to 1 shot as for last year kauto star wa
When he gives 2 stone or more to his rivals and trounces them, then and only then will he be in Dessies league, oh i forgot hes retired cause of his feeble effort in last years mediocore GC.
Did dressie win 5 king George's did he win 4 bet fair chases ,or 2 gold cups even dressie lost more races than he won no where near kauto star and oh ye dressie lost to a 100to 1 shot in the gold cup not in kauto stars league and never will be !!!
The only fool is you my friend dessie wasn't great round Cheltenham hence only beating the old hunter chaser yahoo by a lenth kauto 5 kings dessie 4 kauto 2 gold cups dessie 1 16 grade 1 races how many did dessie win? Kauto holds the kempton track record and smashed the haydock track record at the age of 12 by ten seconds beating the young 6 yr old gold cup winner not in ones class !!!
love dessie,has anyone seen a better jumper,never touched a fence.till the day I die he will always be my favourite nothing better than a flying grey,rip dessie
Loved watching this again. What a champ he was. The ultimate test of a steeplechaser is the ability to carry weight. Those wins in the Gainsborough and the Victor chandler are unbelievable. He carried 22lb more than Panto Prince over 2m to win by a short head. Love him, Fearless warrior who took them all on!!
I miss Dessie always will be a legend in my eyes loved him wiv his will to win
The Mighty Desert Orchid........Says it all..... ..
Their is no words to describe this horse I never saw him of the bridle, ears always pricked it was as though he was always kidding his rivals , he knew that his jumping ability would always stretch his opponents a one off. A unique specimen and thank goodness I was around to witness him and to see a genius at work
for me i love watching this great horse...i was very priverledged to see this horse win the Cheltenham Gold Cup in 1989
Beautiful. I still tingle watching this amazing horse :)
If dessie met kauto 10 times at kempton,He would have beaten kauto at least 8 times.
Kauto retired because he was injured, not because of his "feeble efforts". The jockey said himself that he felt the horse's back pulled (or something), so he pulled him up.
All in all, Desert Orchid and Kauto Star are different horses, there's no point in comparing. At all. They are both great horses and time have changed since Dessie was running. Horses have developed differently due to selective breeding. Personally. I think they are of equal level as they're both remarkable in their own way.
i dont think 10 yrs of "selective breeding" made much difference
Might Desert Orchid. Even at 12yrs he was conceding huge lumps over 2miles to the best around (occupied 1-2-3 in that years Champion Chase) yet not disgraced beat 6l in 4th. His final win saw him concede 15lb to a horse that beat Carvills Hill at level weights & then won an Irish grade one by a distance. That is how good Des was. The best chaser since Arkle & Flying Bolt. Weight carriers repsresent TRUE CHAMPS...Halloween, Arkle, Flying Bolt & Desert Orchid.
My favourite horse rip dessie
Spine tingling watching that
@jonnybeeston When as Kauto ever conceeded 2 stone and won? Never and never will do. Not in the same league as Dessie. The best I've seen in my lifetime...
We'll agree to differ, both true greats of racing, and both have their supporters.
@mallafets I think you are right I'm a big big fan of Kauto but when Dessie got upsides over fences out the country he could take the race out of his opponents long before the winning post.
Go to Kempton and you will see a big statue of the iconic grey with an enscription say THE KING...
King Dessie was hard as nails. Kauto has been brilliant but he is a fragile soul. Take nothing away from KS but Des was a different type of animal...it would be like Tyson vs Ali. Intriguing......
Kauto was smashed by a "no hoper" at Haydock! Kauto only had half the miles on the clock as Dessie did & Elsworth didn't "hand pick" his races. He faced all comers. Kauto wouldn't have even got around in the year Dessie won the Gold Cup you silly fool!
You still havent answered the big question, how many times has he won in the big races and given weight away ie Arkle and Dessie. Never. That is the standard at which you are remembered, not ratings. Arkle was measured on his weight carrying achievments, kauto not even in same league my friend.
When it comes to weight carrying, Dessie is in a different league to Kauto my friend, Dessie beat all around him giving lumps of weight away, Kauto could never achieve this feat, thats why Dessie is the real king of jumps racing........
Kauto won one appalling Gold Cup & another in very slow time as Denman was sick. Remember, Kauto was getting hammered by Snoopy Loopy at levels (PMSL!!!) at Haydock prior tipping up at last when under pressure in 4th. Yahoo was a grade one winner & high class horse whilst Nortons Coin was a Cheltenham specialist & also top class beating Waterloo Boy over 20f. Dessie beat NC 40l in the KG showing how inferior he was going left handed. You frankly have not got a clue!!
The only reason Kauto never lost many races is because he was selected for races off level weights, never rich handicapps like Dessie because they knew he could never give 2 stone or more away like Dessie did and win, ie victor chandler, racing post chase and even won an Irish grand National giving 2 stone or more, when did you see Kauto in a national...? Because he couldnt give that much weight away, thats why Dessie was loved by so many, because of his iron and never say die, 1989 gold cup..
but i do ask this question as a great horse why has not any film director picked up the reins and made a film of it...i think the racing public would flock to the cinemas to see it
Same reason there's never been a film made of the greatest of them all - Arkle.
Each of them was so instantly recognisable even by the general public.
Best leave their stories to be told in the footage we have of them on and of the course.
who has been voted the greatest jumper of all time and greatest front runner jumper ever by racing post readers .....? yes u guest it .....Desert Orchid... and the greatest ever race.....1989 gold cup by racing post readers..... story ends here my very little friend......
denman is probably the only horse near in terms of weight carrying but even then dessie is unrivalled, kauto may have been a kempton specialist and both have won tingle creeks but i would probably say kauto would have beaten dessie over 2 miles but dessie would have won over 3 miles just by galloping him into the ground.
While Kauto was a great horse he couldnt beat Dessie. Imagine Kauto trying to run and jump 3 or 4 out with Dessie, he would be demoralised. Dessie would take a length out the field ever jump. Was still winning at age of 11. Give 2 stone away at times and won with lbs to spare. Won the Gold cup 2 weeks after winning a race.
Just because he was voted best jumper of all time doesn't count for a thing people loved him because he was grey and fairly good ,to be the best you can not lose more racers than you win kauto has run the fatest time ever in the king George and holds it by winning By a record distance a massive 37 lengths ,kauto is up with arkle and mill house ,dessie is just below !!!
Kauto star is the highest rated chaser since arkle it's a fact !!!!this horse holds more records than dessie ever will !!! I knw which horse I'd rather own king kauto lights up kempton can he be the king of kings 5 kings for kauto
Don't be a clown. My granny could carry more weight than Kauto. Dessie could carry half the field.
the only reason Kauto was rated higher is cause Dessie couldnt go on a left handed track, everyone knows that, if he could he would of won 4 gold cups. Kauto couldnt run in big handycaps and give lumps of weight away like dessie, Dessert Orchid is the only horse since Arkle to repeatedly and successfully concede weight to his rivals at the highest level, and you look at the opposition he faced, Wayward lad, Forgive and forget, Dawn run. Enough said......
No your the MUG, Kauto has won only off level weights, Dessert Orchid is the only horse since Arkle to continuely beat horses at the highest level giving 2 stone or more. Won Irish grand national carrying nearly 13 stone. Kauto could never give that weight away, hed never get his feet off the ground.
more grade 1 races , more gold cups, more king georges, more prize money , the highest rated chaser at 2 ,2 half ,3 and 3miles 2 ,holds track records at haydock and kempton ,the only horse to win grade1 races in 7 straight years and beat the youngest gold cup winner since mill house twice at the age of nearly 12 and smashing the haydock track record by 10 seconds ,the list is endless my friend dessie 187 .....kauto 193 FACT .......
Go read paul nicholls book, he explains why kauto never ran in big handicapps is because he could never match dessies achievements giving all that weight away, and as for course records, their there to be broken, dessie was never that type of horse, he out jumped and ran his rivals into the ground, go read top class chasers of all time, Dessie and Arlkle are the only two horses ever to give so much weight away and still hammer their rivals, what happen to the mighty Kauto in last years race?????
Dessie beat the mud lovin yahoo on ground he hated and overhauled him after he was headed, Kauto gave weight away twice, once giving a couple of feathers away and then well hammered by monets garden who needed a zimmer frame to get round. Dessies weight carrying performances acheivments are only second to Arkle. Go google it if you dont believe me.
Enough with the useless rivalry. It's impossible to compare horses from different times. Selective breeding has caused the racehorse to develop much differently to what they used to be. Kauto Star and Desert Orchid are both amazing and completely breathtaking in their own rights. I love them both and its a shame that we didn't get a chance to see more of them - but that's how life is. Just respect the horses for what they did - not what they didn't. Silly comparing isn't doing anyone any favors.
If you go by the weights kauto could of carried 3 stone and still won the 09 king George kauto star g193 dressie 187 !!
kauto star gave his stablemate 9 lb and a 21 lenth beating so ur theory is wrong ! kauto star beat nacarat 42 lenths in the 09 king george and nacarat run in the feb 2010 racing post chase giving a stone to the other horses and just failed by a short head so you are telling me nacarat could give a stone to otherts horses but kauto couldnt when he thrashed nacarat out of sight ,im not knocking dessie i loved the horse but the fact is he is not and never will be in kautos league
Talk is cheap though. KAuto tried conceding weight twice. He struggled to beat regressive handicapper (received just ten pound) by short head & was stuffed by veteran Monets Garden.
Kauto would have been beaten at levels by Snoopy Loopy if he had not unseated at the last! Nortons would have eaten Snoopy Loopy for breakfast ya mug!
Des different class!
take nothing away from dessie great horse but to say he would of beaten kauto star i dnt think he would have ! kauto holds the track record at kempton and won by a massive 36 lenths which no other horse has ever done and lets not forget napsarla thrashed dessie by a massive 16 odd lenths with no excuses in my opinion kauto would of beat dessie !!!
your the mug !!!!! KING KAUTO THE HIGHEST RATED CHASER SINCE ARKLE !!!! AND JUST REMEMBER THEY COULDNT MEASURE HOW FAR HE WINS BY .............A DISTANCE HA HA HA
Kauto star didn't lose many races because he is one of a kind up there with arkle ,I loved dessie but in my opinion not as good as kauto and arkle kauto broke the haddock track record by 10 seconds at the age of 11 beating the 6 yr old gold cup winner in the process how ,many track record does dessie hold ..... None !!!
Paul Nichols stated that kauto star could of won the Hennessy with top weight if he was to run but why would he run in a grade 3 race when you can win grade a top class grade 1 race !kauto has won more gold cups ,more king George's , more tingle creeks more prize money ,more grade 1 races is higher rated than desert orchid ,wins both ways on a racing circuit ,the list is endless dessie not in the class and was beaten by norton coins in the gold cup a 100 to 1 shot as for last year kauto star wa
When he gives 2 stone or more to his rivals and trounces them, then and only then will he be in Dessies league, oh i forgot hes retired cause of his feeble effort in last years mediocore GC.
Both greats but kauto is king !!!!
Did dressie win 5 king George's did he win 4 bet fair chases ,or 2 gold cups even dressie lost more races than he won no where near kauto star and oh ye dressie lost to a 100to 1 shot in the gold cup not in kauto stars league and never will be !!!
The only fool is you my friend dessie wasn't great round Cheltenham hence only beating the old hunter chaser yahoo by a lenth kauto 5 kings dessie 4 kauto 2 gold cups dessie 1 16 grade 1 races how many did dessie win? Kauto holds the kempton track record and smashed the haydock track record at the age of 12 by ten seconds beating the young 6 yr old gold cup winner not in ones class !!!